States create laws and people have to abide by them. The fact that you don't like the laws does not give you the right to violate them.
Here I'll have to disagree with you, it's everybody's responsibility to practice Civil disobedience when there's an unjust law. If the Founding Fathers of the USA felt the same the US would still be a colony.
Are you serious? Haven't you ever heard of natural selection?
You really think that the resistant gene or genes hopped between two totally unrelated species?
Yes I have heard of natural selection, have you ever heard of Horizontal gene transfer? A virus uses it frequently. Humans ourselves have hundreds of genes from virii in us.
I think the saddest thing here is that it seems to take us three years to enforce a judgement against a major corporation
It may seem that it took too long, but 3 years isn't nearly as long as some have waited to be paid. People who had their economic lives ruined by the Exxon Valdez oil spill almost 20 years ago still are waiting to be paid. By comparison MS paid promptly.
Again, I could be wrong, but I believe stock can only cover what's in the US, if the stock is being held in the US.
What happens to a stock traded in one place affects the stock all around the world. Not that I know it is, but I wouldn't be surprised if MS stocks were traded on exchanges in China. Also in the US there are American Depositary Receipts which allows US investors to invest in foreign companies, it's easy to imagine that other countries have similar ways to invest in foreign companies.
GP was talking about the increased resistance to Roundup that pigweed is developing. Pigweed & corn are two different species. Cross pollination isn't gonna happen.
But cross pollination does happen, even if you want to ignore it. I used to say the same thing however someone else pointed out Horizontal gene transfer. And a few years ago David Quist of UC Berkley found contaminate corn in Mexico, because Mexico is the home of corn they banned GE corn.
At first, Mexico rejected the claims of contamination which were published in Nature by Ignacio Chapela and David Quist, of the University of California at Berkeley.
But the government went on to take samples from sites in two states, Oaxaca and Puebla, said Ezequiel Ezcurra, the director of the institute of ecology at the ministry of the environment in Mexico. The states are the genetic home of maize.
A total of 1,876 seedlings was taken, and evidence of contamination was found at 95% of the sites. One field had 35% contamination of plants.
But your scientific evidence has absolutely nothing to do with the original claim that you made. No one was talking about roundup resistance in weeds - you made some claim about genes getting into the wild and out of control.
Roundup resistance is conferred by genes, and those genes were transfered to wild plants. So in fact those genes did get in the wild and out of control.
I'd like to see some evidence that this is a real danger.
Maybe you should look a little harder. From my comment here [slashdot.org].
Ok I missed it, or didn't recall. Sorry.
Perhaps you've never heard of the saying 'time is money.' Using the image isn't the issue, its creating the image, and yes, there is a cost assoiated with the time to create an image.
How long it take to create a disk with Forefox versus a disk with just Windows? As I said earlier, maybe you missed it, if I had had a ghost disk it would have saved me hours reinstalling Windows. And because tyme is money those hours could be put to better use.
You're not out of school yet, are you? Have you never worked in the real world?
No I'm not out of school, and I never will be. If you mean high school, I graduated many years ago. Or do you mean college? Though I don't have a BA or BS I got my AA years ago as well. Have I worked in the real world? Not only did I serve in the US Army but I worked part time jobs while in college then full time in construction for a few years.
Well I spelt out exactly where I used the word cost. Followed by a statement that incidates more costs (more support calls to an OEM = more COST to run the support center). I'm sorry if I didn't spell it out in big bold letters for you, most people could figure out that these options all cost the OEMs something. Something they DO NOT recoup in any way. As I said, you seem to be dense.
Sorry I made a mistake, however your condescending attitude, "You're not out of school yet, are you?" doesn't help. If instead you had simply pointed out where I was wrong it would of been better. I wonder if you have an excuse for your attitude, I have an excuse for my bad memory, I am a survivor of a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI. I wonder how you would do with one. Maybe I should just roll over and die, well after I came out of a coma I was in my sister said that I screamed at everyone to just let me die. Unfortunately they didn't.
Activation allows Microsoft to ensure their R&D is getting paid back for the immense amounts of cash spent on development.
Microsoft doesn't just require a person has the right to install and use their software once, but again and again.
Without that, then we don't get any more software, and everyone loses.
WOW, so all those free and opensource software don't really exist? And all this tyme I thought I was using some FOSS. I don't know how I'm typibng this as Firefox doesn't exist. Neither does Apache, so it can't possibly be the most widely used webserver.
If you see someone looking out for legit users and get scared, you're clearly not operating from a basis of sound logic, but reactionary victimhood.
It is victimhood if your software continually contacts the home office, MS.
Can you show me where I say anything about pigweed?
Two WAY different species.
As others have pointed out, and corrected me, gene transfer from one species to another happens regularly. One/.er point me to Horizontal gene transfer. And another brought up virii, a virus can transfer genes from one organism to another, that is one of the methods used in genetic engineering. I made the same mistake earlier, if not in the threads about this article then in another on/. and said genes don't move from one species to a different species.
Back in The Day, '11 Braincells' was Combat Infantryman.
After I decided to enlist and took the ASVAB when I said I wanted to go into infantry the person almost freaked out. The person said that with my ASVAB scores I could go into any MOS I wanted to, why would I want to go into infantry.
Indirectly. Monsanto didn't splice the genes into the weeds.
Cross pollination is a basic fact of nature and Monsanto knew any genes inserted into a GMO could cross pollinate with wild plants. So it is directly Monsanto's responsibility. It's no different than if I aim a pistol at someone and squeeze the trigger. I may not intend to kill the person but that does not affect the outcome. And yes, I specifically used this example. While I was enlisted in the US Army a friend of mine had this fear he would be shot and killed. Sure enough, one day he was in the armory cleaning weapons when the armorer who was also cleaning weapons pointed one at him and pulled the trigger. My friend died of a head shot that should not of had happened. It was ironic, our MOS, Military Occupational Specialty was 11B, Small Arms Specialist, aka grunt or infantry and he died in while we were enjoying peace not in combat.
Well, by that logic we'd only be using technology that was developed in the 1960's.
There's a big difference between technologies like computers and Genetic Engineering. If a computer blows up, catches fire, or does something else the damage that may be caused is local. However if a deadly GE created organism escapes into the wild it potentially has repercussions for the entire planet. Is it reall that hard to understand? If my Mac burns up it may burn down the building but if for instance a terminator gene gets out it could sterile other plants. A sterile tomato, if it works, could conceivably sterilize other tomatoes as well, so long for tomatoes.
I know the tomato example was extreme but it serves to get my point across.
Drugs help save lives, GE corn on the other hand only lines the pockets of Monsanto or whoever created the seed.
You can live with most diseases, you can't live without eating.
But you don't need GE corn to eat. Corn has lasted for centuries but Genetic Engineering is new. Not only that but there are plenty of other things besides corn to eat and most corn in the US is used for cattle fodder, and maybe soon ethanol production. Actually I rarely ever eat corn myself, peppers now, I love. For seasoning, stuffed, and picked right off one of my pepper plants in my garden. Other vegetables I have growing are acorn squash, broccoli, cauiflower, onions, tomatoes, and tomatillos. None of them are GMOs. Now if you have any evidence where GMOs and GE seeds are needed please share.
But the average citizen from an advance industrial country can't be sustained without embracing new technology.
Selective use of technology. After all nobody has a nuclear reactor in their basement yet they have existed more than 50 years. Meantime while California had those rolling blackouts several years ago and the Northeast US and south east Canada lost the power grid there were still people in those areas who had power as they used solar or other alternative energy sources.
In the case of GMOs, food prices would go up, which the poor might find troublesome.
Because the GE companies want to keep the money rolling in they want to charge farmers for seed every year instead of allowing farmers to do what they have done since the start of agriculture, save seeds. These businesses want farmers to be dependent on them, which raises prices. If farmers can save seeds it cheaper for people to eat, so in a since Monsanto and others want the world to depend on them.
if you're scared of GMOs then, by all means, buy organic. Well, it's determined that GMOs can be labeled organic (something some people are pushing for).
I am not scared of GE as I said before, what I am is I am concerned about possible side effects of escaped GMOs and about the possibility of vender lockin, in order to continue growing corn a farmer has to buy Monsanto seed every year when they used to be able to save seeds. And no it has not been determined GMOs can be labled organic. The EU split over labeling of GMO contaminated organic food. Contaminated produce not GMO grown produce. Meanwhile in the US GMOs are specifically excluded from certified-organic products.
It would be foolish for a company to release a dangerous product and get itself sued out of existence.
Are either Exxon or Union Carbide out of business? Last I heard they are still in business even if Exxon is on Exxon-Mobile and Union Carbide is now owned by Dow Chemical.
Even if it somehow survived the legal onslaught, the popularity/legality of GMOs would plummet
It is loosing popularity, That's why GE, GMO, companies do everything they can to fight labeling law
ok, then how am I wrong?
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I'm not too worried by a case where somebody wanted to pollute, complained under NAFTA, and was told that, indeed, they could not pollute.
But what they are told they can pollute?
That's a bit like saying "If Charles Manson had won his murder case, he would have killed more people. Therefore, the process that allowed Manson to have a trial (instead of just being sent straight to jail without one), is bad."
No, they are compleatly different. If you lock someone innocent up you are denying them their rights. However there is no right to make a profit, all people have is the right to try to make a profit. Profits aren't guarantied.
Yes, I know it has already happened. I view this case (and the potential others like it) as one of the biggest (and only?) problems with GM crops. However, if you stuck a gene in there which would prevent the GM seeds from germinating without a chemical which you buy from Monsanto, then accidental contamination could not occur. The contaminated seeds would not germinate, and only the heritage varieties would survive into the next generation, unless you were intentionally growing Monsanto crops, with permission from Monsanto.
Ah but can they guaranty terminator tech will work? They'd be foolish to state it will, after all nature always has little surprises.
More like directly responsible, if there wasn't Roundup Ready crops then Roundup wouldn't be used so much if at all and without it being as much native plants would have as much an opportunity to become resistant. Therefore no RR crops mean less resistance.
It's the same principle behind antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Hit bacteria with enough antibiotics and the survivors become immune. Nature has a way of filling ecological voids.
Actually it works the opposite, though over use of Broad Spectrum Antibiotics leads to drug resistance the opposite is true as well. Improper usage of antibiotics, which includes not using the full prescription, leads to antibiotic resistant. Which is one why I oppose the use of antibiotics in household cleaners. The other reason is that the immune system in children isn't given the chance to buildup biotic resistance in a sterile environment, "Questions about antibacterial cleaning agents, acne medication, and probioticss". But the fact is is if a drug treatment course isn't finished it can lead to antibiotic resistance. "Finish treatment only when microbes were wiped out."
The quantity of Round-Up be bought exceeded the amount that could be applied to his non-crop acreage, ruling out the possibility that it was purchased solely for border weed control etc. This was a very strong indication that he not only knew he was growing RR Canola, but that he was actively selecting for it by spraying his fields.
That's what farmers do, they save seeds from plants that exhibit the traits they desire. Happens all the tyme.
Logically, GMOs would be first tested with animals to see if they suffer any long-term side-effects (relative to the lifespan of the animal). I couldn't imagine a responsible scientist neglecting that step
How long is long? A few years, 10, or 50? GMOs haven't been around long enough to really test them over a long period. A person can smoke a lifetime and never get cancer yet you see, well I do, places all over banning smoking. The GE, GMO, industry would never exist if they had to prove they were safe for as long.
nor a cooperation fool-hardy enough to.
Ever hear of Exxon or Union Carbide?
As for "it could take generations to test"
Smoking doesn't cause cancer with only a few puffs, or in a few years, either. It's the long term effects that concern me.
I don't see why it should take any longer than a new medicine to test. And those certainly aren't tested over several generations.
Drugs help save lives, GE corn on the other hand only lines the pockets of Monsanto or whoever created the seed.
I'd expect they've gone down since one can now use lower amounts of stronger herbicides without killing the crops.
Herbicide resistant crops are made so you can use herbicides, if you don't use herbicides there's no reason to have herbicide resistant crops. And organic farming doesn't use any manmade chemical inputs. They aren't needed.
Either way, Round-up seems to be less toxic than most herbicides. Personally, I'd much rather farmers use Round-up rather than atrazine (the most commonly used herbicide in the US).
I'd rather farmers not use any herbicides or pesticides. As much as I can I buy organic food. And I'm not some wealth person who can afford whatever I want, I'm on disability and haven't worked in years. Actually I pretty much stay at home online, such as on/. trying to save money, er not spend it. If you look at my first post today, well yesterday because it's after midnight where I am, you'll see I've been logged in for more than 12 hours.
Sure, given the prominence of GMOs you'll find the modified genes in some plants that shouldn't have them, but the traits aren't rapidly spreading, otherwise Round-up and the like would lose their effectiveness.
the reason we use baker's yeast is that it is a model organism. it's a very simple, well understood, genetically sequenced organism that is easily growable in a lab environment
Forget a lab, yeast is easy to grow in the home, say the kitchen. Just add some mash, or fruits, to water then add the yeast. The yeast will multiply happily.
We can already breed yeast strains capable of nearly doubling the amount of alcohol without distilling. [21% was the highest I've heard used]
Increasing the alcohol is good especially for fuel. For beer or wine I think 21% may be a bit high though. Usually when I've made beer I got around 6%, I don't recall what I got for wine. Gosh, thinking about it I want to setup my fermentation equipment and start brewing again, unfortunately the place I moved into is small.
As I said in a previous post, BBQ likely causes a risk of cancer, every BBQ'ed item you have ever eaten. Why are you concerned about a hypothetical risk and not a real one?
Because BBQ gator tail and wild boar tastes so good.
A mistaken, but often-quoted, example of GM foods causing new allergies concerns genetic material from Brazil nut plants that was inserted into a soy plant to improve its nutritional qualities
This is mistaken? You may want to inform Washington University and some professors there: IDENTIFICATION OF A BRAZIL-NUT ALLERGEN IN TRANSGENIC SOYBEANS(pdf). Now I never did say the soy was released, only that it's possible something like it could happen. I'd rather be proactive than reactive, "opps, I'm sorry" just doesn't work, unless you're Exxon or Union Carbide.
Slashdot Mirror
States create laws and people have to abide by them. The fact that you don't like the laws does not give you the right to violate them.
Here I'll have to disagree with you, it's everybody's responsibility to practice Civil disobedience when there's an unjust law. If the Founding Fathers of the USA felt the same the US would still be a colony.
Falconcouldn't microsoft essentially say that their software was no longer allowed to be purchased or used by any country in the EU?
Heck, MS can't stop it's software from being sold in Cuba how in the world can they stop it n Europe?
FalconAre you serious? Haven't you ever heard of natural selection?
You really think that the resistant gene or genes hopped between two totally unrelated species?
Yes I have heard of natural selection, have you ever heard of Horizontal gene transfer? A virus uses it frequently. Humans ourselves have hundreds of genes from virii in us.
FalconIt depends, I call Basque, Basque; Bretons, Bretons; and Roma, Romas or Romani.
FalconI think the saddest thing here is that it seems to take us three years to enforce a judgement against a major corporation
It may seem that it took too long, but 3 years isn't nearly as long as some have waited to be paid. People who had their economic lives ruined by the Exxon Valdez oil spill almost 20 years ago still are waiting to be paid. By comparison MS paid promptly.
FalconAgain, I could be wrong, but I believe stock can only cover what's in the US, if the stock is being held in the US.
What happens to a stock traded in one place affects the stock all around the world. Not that I know it is, but I wouldn't be surprised if MS stocks were traded on exchanges in China. Also in the US there are American Depositary Receipts which allows US investors to invest in foreign companies, it's easy to imagine that other countries have similar ways to invest in foreign companies.
FalconGP was talking about the increased resistance to Roundup that pigweed is developing. Pigweed & corn are two different species. Cross pollination isn't gonna happen.
But cross pollination does happen, even if you want to ignore it. I used to say the same thing however someone else pointed out Horizontal gene transfer. And a few years ago David Quist of UC Berkley found contaminate corn in Mexico, because Mexico is the home of corn they banned GE corn.
At first, Mexico rejected the claims of contamination which were published in Nature by Ignacio Chapela and David Quist, of the University of California at Berkeley.
But the government went on to take samples from sites in two states, Oaxaca and Puebla, said Ezequiel Ezcurra, the director of the institute of ecology at the ministry of the environment in Mexico. The states are the genetic home of maize.
A total of 1,876 seedlings was taken, and evidence of contamination was found at 95% of the sites. One field had 35% contamination of plants.
FalconBut your scientific evidence has absolutely nothing to do with the original claim that you made. No one was talking about roundup resistance in weeds - you made some claim about genes getting into the wild and out of control.
Roundup resistance is conferred by genes, and those genes were transfered to wild plants. So in fact those genes did get in the wild and out of control.
I'd like to see some evidence that this is a real danger.
Roundup Ready weeds are your evidence.
FalconMaybe you should look a little harder. From my comment here [slashdot.org].
Ok I missed it, or didn't recall. Sorry.
Perhaps you've never heard of the saying 'time is money.' Using the image isn't the issue, its creating the image, and yes, there is a cost assoiated with the time to create an image.
How long it take to create a disk with Forefox versus a disk with just Windows? As I said earlier, maybe you missed it, if I had had a ghost disk it would have saved me hours reinstalling Windows. And because tyme is money those hours could be put to better use.
You're not out of school yet, are you? Have you never worked in the real world?
No I'm not out of school, and I never will be. If you mean high school, I graduated many years ago. Or do you mean college? Though I don't have a BA or BS I got my AA years ago as well. Have I worked in the real world? Not only did I serve in the US Army but I worked part time jobs while in college then full time in construction for a few years.
Well I spelt out exactly where I used the word cost. Followed by a statement that incidates more costs (more support calls to an OEM = more COST to run the support center). I'm sorry if I didn't spell it out in big bold letters for you, most people could figure out that these options all cost the OEMs something. Something they DO NOT recoup in any way. As I said, you seem to be dense.
Sorry I made a mistake, however your condescending attitude, "You're not out of school yet, are you?" doesn't help. If instead you had simply pointed out where I was wrong it would of been better. I wonder if you have an excuse for your attitude, I have an excuse for my bad memory, I am a survivor of a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI. I wonder how you would do with one. Maybe I should just roll over and die, well after I came out of a coma I was in my sister said that I screamed at everyone to just let me die. Unfortunately they didn't.
FalconActivation allows Microsoft to ensure their R&D is getting paid back for the immense amounts of cash spent on development.
Microsoft doesn't just require a person has the right to install and use their software once, but again and again.
Without that, then we don't get any more software, and everyone loses.
WOW, so all those free and opensource software don't really exist? And all this tyme I thought I was using some FOSS. I don't know how I'm typibng this as Firefox doesn't exist. Neither does Apache, so it can't possibly be the most widely used webserver.
If you see someone looking out for legit users and get scared, you're clearly not operating from a basis of sound logic, but reactionary victimhood.
It is victimhood if your software continually contacts the home office, MS.
FalconI have no idea how you meandered over to roundup resistance in crops.
Did you or did you not say I said something with no scientific basis? Let's see... Yeap you did say that, YOU are the one making claims without any sort of science to back it up. . Now when I provided evidence you say I "meandered".
FalconAnd how is that more dangerous than making new alleles from scratch? That's exactly what happens when mutations occur in the wild
But nature takes a long tyme which allows any kinks to be worked out If a GMO escapes into the wild though there is no testing taken over a long tyme.
Corn with pigweed??????????? Not bloody likely.
Can you show me where I say anything about pigweed?
Two WAY different species.
As others have pointed out, and corrected me, gene transfer from one species to another happens regularly. One /.er point me to Horizontal gene transfer. And another brought up virii, a virus can transfer genes from one organism to another, that is one of the methods used in genetic engineering. I made the same mistake earlier, if not in the threads about this article then in another on /. and said genes don't move from one species to a different species.
Back in The Day, '11 Braincells' was Combat Infantryman.
After I decided to enlist and took the ASVAB when I said I wanted to go into infantry the person almost freaked out. The person said that with my ASVAB scores I could go into any MOS I wanted to, why would I want to go into infantry.
FalconOk
FalconIndirectly. Monsanto didn't splice the genes into the weeds.
Cross pollination is a basic fact of nature and Monsanto knew any genes inserted into a GMO could cross pollinate with wild plants. So it is directly Monsanto's responsibility. It's no different than if I aim a pistol at someone and squeeze the trigger. I may not intend to kill the person but that does not affect the outcome. And yes, I specifically used this example. While I was enlisted in the US Army a friend of mine had this fear he would be shot and killed. Sure enough, one day he was in the armory cleaning weapons when the armorer who was also cleaning weapons pointed one at him and pulled the trigger. My friend died of a head shot that should not of had happened. It was ironic, our MOS, Military Occupational Specialty was 11B, Small Arms Specialist, aka grunt or infantry and he died in while we were enjoying peace not in combat.
FalconHow long is long? A few years, 10, or 50?
Well, by that logic we'd only be using technology that was developed in the 1960's.
There's a big difference between technologies like computers and Genetic Engineering. If a computer blows up, catches fire, or does something else the damage that may be caused is local. However if a deadly GE created organism escapes into the wild it potentially has repercussions for the entire planet. Is it reall that hard to understand? If my Mac burns up it may burn down the building but if for instance a terminator gene gets out it could sterile other plants. A sterile tomato, if it works, could conceivably sterilize other tomatoes as well, so long for tomatoes.
I know the tomato example was extreme but it serves to get my point across.
Drugs help save lives, GE corn on the other hand only lines the pockets of Monsanto or whoever created the seed.
You can live with most diseases, you can't live without eating.
But you don't need GE corn to eat. Corn has lasted for centuries but Genetic Engineering is new. Not only that but there are plenty of other things besides corn to eat and most corn in the US is used for cattle fodder, and maybe soon ethanol production. Actually I rarely ever eat corn myself, peppers now, I love. For seasoning, stuffed, and picked right off one of my pepper plants in my garden. Other vegetables I have growing are acorn squash, broccoli, cauiflower, onions, tomatoes, and tomatillos. None of them are GMOs. Now if you have any evidence where GMOs and GE seeds are needed please share.
But the average citizen from an advance industrial country can't be sustained without embracing new technology.
Selective use of technology. After all nobody has a nuclear reactor in their basement yet they have existed more than 50 years. Meantime while California had those rolling blackouts several years ago and the Northeast US and south east Canada lost the power grid there were still people in those areas who had power as they used solar or other alternative energy sources.
In the case of GMOs, food prices would go up, which the poor might find troublesome.
Because the GE companies want to keep the money rolling in they want to charge farmers for seed every year instead of allowing farmers to do what they have done since the start of agriculture, save seeds. These businesses want farmers to be dependent on them, which raises prices. If farmers can save seeds it cheaper for people to eat, so in a since Monsanto and others want the world to depend on them.
if you're scared of GMOs then, by all means, buy organic. Well, it's determined that GMOs can be labeled organic (something some people are pushing for).
I am not scared of GE as I said before, what I am is I am concerned about possible side effects of escaped GMOs and about the possibility of vender lockin, in order to continue growing corn a farmer has to buy Monsanto seed every year when they used to be able to save seeds. And no it has not been determined GMOs can be labled organic. The EU split over labeling of GMO contaminated organic food. Contaminated produce not GMO grown produce. Meanwhile in the US GMOs are specifically excluded from certified-organic products.
It would be foolish for a company to release a dangerous product and get itself sued out of existence.
Are either Exxon or Union Carbide out of business? Last I heard they are still in business even if Exxon is on Exxon-Mobile and Union Carbide is now owned by Dow Chemical.
Even if it somehow survived the legal onslaught, the popularity/legality of GMOs would plummet
It is loosing popularity, That's why GE, GMO, companies do everything they can to fight labeling law
Oops, I replied to the wrong quote, sorry.
FalconThanks for the avocado link.
I'm not too worried by a case where somebody wanted to pollute, complained under NAFTA, and was told that, indeed, they could not pollute.
But what they are told they can pollute?
That's a bit like saying "If Charles Manson had won his murder case, he would have killed more people. Therefore, the process that allowed Manson to have a trial (instead of just being sent straight to jail without one), is bad."
No, they are compleatly different. If you lock someone innocent up you are denying them their rights. However there is no right to make a profit, all people have is the right to try to make a profit. Profits aren't guarantied.
FalconYes, I know it has already happened. I view this case (and the potential others like it) as one of the biggest (and only?) problems with GM crops. However, if you stuck a gene in there which would prevent the GM seeds from germinating without a chemical which you buy from Monsanto, then accidental contamination could not occur. The contaminated seeds would not germinate, and only the heritage varieties would survive into the next generation, unless you were intentionally growing Monsanto crops, with permission from Monsanto.
Ah but can they guaranty terminator tech will work? They'd be foolish to state it will, after all nature always has little surprises.
Falconresponsible for this.
More like directly responsible, if there wasn't Roundup Ready crops then Roundup wouldn't be used so much if at all and without it being as much native plants would have as much an opportunity to become resistant. Therefore no RR crops mean less resistance.
It's the same principle behind antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Hit bacteria with enough antibiotics and the survivors become immune. Nature has a way of filling ecological voids.
Actually it works the opposite, though over use of Broad Spectrum Antibiotics leads to drug resistance the opposite is true as well. Improper usage of antibiotics, which includes not using the full prescription, leads to antibiotic resistant. Which is one why I oppose the use of antibiotics in household cleaners. The other reason is that the immune system in children isn't given the chance to buildup biotic resistance in a sterile environment, "Questions about antibacterial cleaning agents, acne medication, and probioticss". But the fact is is if a drug treatment course isn't finished it can lead to antibiotic resistance. "Finish treatment only when microbes were wiped out."
FalconThe quantity of Round-Up be bought exceeded the amount that could be applied to his non-crop acreage, ruling out the possibility that it was purchased solely for border weed control etc. This was a very strong indication that he not only knew he was growing RR Canola, but that he was actively selecting for it by spraying his fields.
That's what farmers do, they save seeds from plants that exhibit the traits they desire. Happens all the tyme.
FalconLogically, GMOs would be first tested with animals to see if they suffer any long-term side-effects (relative to the lifespan of the animal). I couldn't imagine a responsible scientist neglecting that step
How long is long? A few years, 10, or 50? GMOs haven't been around long enough to really test them over a long period. A person can smoke a lifetime and never get cancer yet you see, well I do, places all over banning smoking. The GE, GMO, industry would never exist if they had to prove they were safe for as long.
nor a cooperation fool-hardy enough to.
Ever hear of Exxon or Union Carbide?
As for "it could take generations to test"
Smoking doesn't cause cancer with only a few puffs, or in a few years, either. It's the long term effects that concern me.
I don't see why it should take any longer than a new medicine to test. And those certainly aren't tested over several generations.
Drugs help save lives, GE corn on the other hand only lines the pockets of Monsanto or whoever created the seed.
I'd expect they've gone down since one can now use lower amounts of stronger herbicides without killing the crops.
Herbicide resistant crops are made so you can use herbicides, if you don't use herbicides there's no reason to have herbicide resistant crops. And organic farming doesn't use any manmade chemical inputs. They aren't needed.
Either way, Round-up seems to be less toxic than most herbicides. Personally, I'd much rather farmers use Round-up rather than atrazine (the most commonly used herbicide in the US).
I'd rather farmers not use any herbicides or pesticides. As much as I can I buy organic food. And I'm not some wealth person who can afford whatever I want, I'm on disability and haven't worked in years. Actually I pretty much stay at home online, such as on /. trying to save money, er not spend it. If you look at my first post today, well yesterday because it's after midnight where I am, you'll see I've been logged in for more than 12 hours.
Sure, given the prominence of GMOs you'll find the modified genes in some plants that shouldn't have them, but the traits aren't rapidly spreading, otherwise Round-up and the like would lose their effectiveness.
AH, but herbicides are loosing effectiveness as the article in "ScienceDaily" I provided the link to says. LSU has an article on Herbicide Resistance Management in Roundup Ready Cotton. Here's an article in "Wired" magazine about a Roundup "Ready" coca plant, which is what cocaine is made from: "The Mystery of the Coca Plant That Wouldn't Die".
Falconthe reason we use baker's yeast is that it is a model organism. it's a very simple, well understood, genetically sequenced organism that is easily growable in a lab environment
Forget a lab, yeast is easy to grow in the home, say the kitchen. Just add some mash, or fruits, to water then add the yeast. The yeast will multiply happily.
We can already breed yeast strains capable of nearly doubling the amount of alcohol without distilling. [21% was the highest I've heard used]
Increasing the alcohol is good especially for fuel. For beer or wine I think 21% may be a bit high though. Usually when I've made beer I got around 6%, I don't recall what I got for wine. Gosh, thinking about it I want to setup my fermentation equipment and start brewing again, unfortunately the place I moved into is small.
FalconAs I said in a previous post, BBQ likely causes a risk of cancer, every BBQ'ed item you have ever eaten. Why are you concerned about a hypothetical risk and not a real one?
Because BBQ gator tail and wild boar tastes so good.
FalconA mistaken, but often-quoted, example of GM foods causing new allergies concerns genetic material from Brazil nut plants that was inserted into a soy plant to improve its nutritional qualities
This is mistaken? You may want to inform Washington University and some professors there: IDENTIFICATION OF A BRAZIL-NUT ALLERGEN IN TRANSGENIC SOYBEANS(pdf). Now I never did say the soy was released, only that it's possible something like it could happen. I'd rather be proactive than reactive, "opps, I'm sorry" just doesn't work, unless you're Exxon or Union Carbide.
Falcon