the limited choices in hardware don't meet the needs of a lot of people, from the underpowered Mini, to the one-size-fits-all iMac, do the high powered, high priced Mac Pro, they just don't have enough breadth and depth.
Apparently like you, I think Apple misses the boat by not offering many different configurations for Macs. For instance I'd like to see a desktop or tower that's expandable but not as powerful or cost as much as the Mac Pro. Other's have said they'd prefer a smaller, say 10" or 11", Macbook. Almost a year ago I saw a 21", yes 21 inch (it's not a typo), laptop running Windows in a BestBuy. I wished Apple would release a 21" Macbook Pro.
When looking for a very nice 17' laptop, I went to Apple and Dell for a Mac book Pro and 17'inch Inspiron. After building a 17'inch laptop on each (with specs as close as I could get them and usually favoring Dell when no direct match was available), the Mac book Pro was roughly $1000 more then the Dell.
A few months ago I did the same, though I added HP. Going to their websites I selected a base system then configured systems as close as I could get on Apple's Dell's and HP's websites. The lowest price was Apple's. Admittedly I used the standard amount of RAM on the Macbook Pro and used it for the others, Apple charges an arm and a leg for more RAM. Why yesterday I configured a MBP and saw the difference in the price between 2GM and 4GB was $600. I just checked Crucial and they have 4GB, not 2GB upgrade, for the MBP for less than $300. But leaving the stock amount of RAM on Macs, they generally have comparable prices.
The difference in price between identical hardware at Dell goes to pay for OS X. So when I configure a Dell system that's $500 less than an equivalent Mac
The last tyme I went to both Apple's and Dell's, and HP's, websites to price comparable systems Apple was lower than Dell. However even if it was more I'd happily pay a couple of hundred dollars more for a system that didn't crash on me and would last for years.
The reason I have a hard time dealing with Mac zealots (and yes, I do use Macs...) is that they tend to have the exact opposite view. People tend to take it personally when they're looked down on and considered idiots for using anything but Macs.
That describes zealots of all stripes whether Mac, Windows, or al Quada zealots. All computer and the OSes that run on them are tools and I believe in using the best tool for a given job.
As is Windows... You still have to waste the money on overpriced, proprietary hardware from Apple though. With almost no choice over components and little options to upgrade in the future. People blast Microsoft for vendor lock-in, but Apple has always been worse. But who cares when you get something that's sleek and cool looking like a Mac, right?
While I agree Apple is the lockin king, by controlling hardware and the OS Apple is able to sale something that "Just Works"! Apple is a systems integrator which means it can make sure all the parts work together. And they don't prevent third parties from making peripherals, replacement drives, or memory for Macs. All they do is prevent, or make hard, OSX from running on commodity PCs. As for what you get, you get a stable system that "Just Works". If Apple were to release OSX so it ran on commodity PCs, it's renevue would drop because of a decline in hardare sales. And the sale of OSX licenses wouldn't make up the difference unless the price for a license was high, but then who'd pay that much? Also because Apple wouldn't control the hardware the OS could become unstable. And if they did they'd crash right into the 800# guerilla of OSes, Microsoft.
But it's Ubuntu vs. Mac OS X, right? Not Ubuntu vs. Mac hardware. I know next to nothing about Ubuntu, but I'm assuming you can't run it from within Mac OS X...
Much like you can run Windows in a vm on Macs, you can run Linux in a vm as well. I understand installing Windows in a vm but why do so with Linux unless it's to experiment.
In a few days I'll be ordering a Macbook Pro and I'll been wondering about setting it up to dualboot Ubuntu. At first I was set to just that but now I'm wondering if doing so will mean I can do more with it. I've also got a PC with Linspire Linux preinstalled and want to dualboot Ubuntu on it as well. However I've been looking for a dl dvd drive to install. The Linspire website didn't list any dl dvd drives when I checked a week or so ago and Ubuntu's hardware compatibility page didn't list any. So I used the search box on the page and still didn't get any. Of course I can Google or use Alta Vista, which I'll do later. The problem I'll have though is actually installing one and getting it to work with both Linspire and Ubuntu. While many/.ers may not have a problem doing it, basically I'm a Linux newby.
Ah, so the same reason someone drives an SUV to their office.
For most SUVs on the road I totally agree. I doubt more than 10% of the SUVs on the road will ever be driven off a paved road. Yet when I grew up that's exactly why people got 4X4s, to go offroad. Heck I knew some that had 4X4s that were never driven on the road. At home they'd keep it on a trailer and tow it wherever. Once they got where they wanted to go offroad they'd unload it pretty much like a boat on a trailer. And the muddy water may be a few feet deep. We had some fun stumping around in the bogs.
I sometimes look as those driving Hummers and Rovers on the road and wonder if their ego is so fragile they need one to boost their selfesteem.
the market has shown which device people prefer - the mouse.
I don't really think people have decided they prefer a mouse to a trackball. I think the real reason most people use mice is because when they bought their computer it came with a mouse and not a trackball. I'd like to see a purchaser given the option of getting a mouse or a trackball with their computer.
Oh, I didn't say the above because I prefer trackballs. When I got my first laptop I got both a mouse and a trackball. After a few weeks I retired the trackball because I had problems using it. It's years later now and I'll be getting a new laptop, then I may try a trackball again.
So my question is: With all the things Microsoft does wrong, how come when they finally getting something right they drop the product?
Because if they kept it they would have had to raise their quality in other products? Whee people have something with good quality they expect more of that quality from the company. So instead of giving people that expectation of quality they discontinued it.
Long, long ago I tried a trackball at my friend's house, and decided I absolutely must have one. That was a good couple of years, til I switched back to a mouse permanently, and you better believe I never looked back. After experiencing both sides of the fence, using a mouse is far more intuitive and precise for many activities on a PC.
When I got my first laptop I got both a mouth and a trackball. After a few weeks I retired the trackball as it was bothered me too much. The only thing worse was the stick stuck in the keyboard. When I get a new Macbook Pro I may try again but I'd really love to get a Wacom tablet. If only I could afford the Cintiq.
Thanks for the link, it may come in handy. I'll try FOOS graphics programs first and only get Photoshop if none of them work. If I get PS I hope it comes with disks for both OSX and Windows, that way I can run it on both my MBP and linux PC.
Other things are that its hard to press the middle mouse button on a 1 button mouse:)
Well I never use the middle button though I do use the right button a lot. I know Macs simulate it (right click, I don't know about middle click), [option]click, but it'll still take me a while to get used to it. Two button mice can work with Macs, and I'll get one, but from my understanding not all Mac software makes use of the right button.
and theres a few other unix/max design philosophy differences to work around.
I haven't really used *unix in about 10 years, I've been using mostly Windows, so from that point I won't have work arounds to deal with between unix and OSX. Of course there will be between OSX and Windows. I should adjust pretty quickly as I used Macs for 10 years before Windows 95 and NT 4.0 came out.
I haven't had any problems opening any MS Office files so far. It's based on OpenOffice.org with a native Mac UI, so it's as compatible as OO.org.
Yeah, I know NeoOffice is a native port of OO using Mac's gui. However I heard OO sometimes has problems opening MS Office documents, it doesn't like Office macros or something. If so, since many Office users use macros, I think it's inappropriate to say OO is compatible with MS Office.
Quite true, but my point was that instead of making it easy to read, CIO.com seems to almost want its readers to avoid reading its articles. It's rather rediculous to have to resort to an ad blocker or to viewing the print page just to be able to read an article.
Maybe I'm just used to it but when I read an article online I almost always check for a print link first. For longer articles I prefer to print them out and read hardcopy as reading long webpages typically hurts my eyes, I'll get eye as well as head aches.
Falcon
Re:CIO.com doesn't want us to read the article
on
A CIO's View of Ubuntu
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· Score: 2, Informative
CIO.com sure has a hardon for online ad revenue. Seventeen pages for one article, the article itself taking up only 1/3 of the page real estate for each page. Talk about a pain in the ass to read.
That's simple to solve, just click the print link. It all is on one webpage. Unfortunately my browser print preview shows it's still 11 pages without changing any settings. But there's no ads.
I'm not going to pay for Windows, Mac OSX and Suse when I am already quite happy just using Ubuntu.
In about a week I'm getting a Macbook Pro and though I won't touch Windows with a 10 foot pole if I can avoid it, I'm thinking of setting up the MBP to dualboot Ubuntu as well.
That's the beauty of virtualization on the Intel Macs. You cease worrying about which OS is the best compromise; you simply use the best OS for the task at hand.
While you can run all three OSes on a Mac isn't running Windows, or Linux, in a VM slow?
For the Mac users, of course there are four options: Mac Office, Windows Office via Parallels or VMWare Fusion, standard OpenOffice.Org, and NeoOffice (native Mac port of OpenOffice.Org). I use the latter and have zero problems exchanging files with MS Office users.
Is NeoOffice really compatible with MS Office? In a week or so I'll be getting a MBP and want to try out NeoOffice, unlike OO, it doesn't require X11 to be installed does it? I want to try out as much FOOS as I can, and I don't want to touch any MS product with a 10 foot pole if I can avoid it.
yes, Synaptic is better than YAST/2 but Suse's hardware management systems were better imho. I've gone for ease of installing.
What does it matter if something is easy to install but difficult to use? Or the other way around, what does it matter if something is easy to use but difficult to install? Between the two, the second is more important, because most people don't install an OS. People just want to use something.
Adobe Creative Suite which is available on Windows (and thusly Linux via Wine)
Good luck trying to get CS3 running smoothly and without hazzle in Crossover, or WINE for that matter. The last tyme I checked, two or three months ago, the last version of PS that was certified to run well in Crossover was PH7.
Linux fanatics can't expect everyone to edit xorg.conf by hand and apply diff patches to rebuild their wireless drivers.
By far not the only reason but one Reason I believe Linux hasn't taken the desktop by storm is because too many Linux famatics don't understand, don't want to admit, or simply want to keep Linux as an OS for geeks. Some groups or companies are making it easier to install and use Linux like Canonical and Linspire but until anyone can install and use Linux as easily as they can OSX or Windows, and Linux is preinstalled on more PCs, Linux will not have much of a market share of the desktop.
I'm not complaining about the price of service. I'm just correcting the statement that Cingular is getting cheaper. Don't even try to steer this into an anti-iPhone rant.
Do you know how much Cingular charged 10 years ago? How about 5 years ago? I bet prices are lower today than back then. Five years ago you'd be hard pressed to find cellular service costing $50 with 100 minutes of airtime a month, now you can find service offering 1000 minutes a month for that if not less. It's been more than a year since I compared service plans but the last tyme I did I was able to find plans offering unlimited minutes for about $100 if I recall right. So yes, cell service has gone down in prices.
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the limited choices in hardware don't meet the needs of a lot of people, from the underpowered Mini, to the one-size-fits-all iMac, do the high powered, high priced Mac Pro, they just don't have enough breadth and depth.
Apparently like you, I think Apple misses the boat by not offering many different configurations for Macs. For instance I'd like to see a desktop or tower that's expandable but not as powerful or cost as much as the Mac Pro. Other's have said they'd prefer a smaller, say 10" or 11", Macbook. Almost a year ago I saw a 21", yes 21 inch (it's not a typo), laptop running Windows in a BestBuy. I wished Apple would release a 21" Macbook Pro.
FalconWhen looking for a very nice 17' laptop, I went to Apple and Dell for a Mac book Pro and 17'inch Inspiron. After building a 17'inch laptop on each (with specs as close as I could get them and usually favoring Dell when no direct match was available), the Mac book Pro was roughly $1000 more then the Dell.
A few months ago I did the same, though I added HP. Going to their websites I selected a base system then configured systems as close as I could get on Apple's Dell's and HP's websites. The lowest price was Apple's. Admittedly I used the standard amount of RAM on the Macbook Pro and used it for the others, Apple charges an arm and a leg for more RAM. Why yesterday I configured a MBP and saw the difference in the price between 2GM and 4GB was $600. I just checked Crucial and they have 4GB, not 2GB upgrade, for the MBP for less than $300. But leaving the stock amount of RAM on Macs, they generally have comparable prices.
FalconThe difference in price between identical hardware at Dell goes to pay for OS X. So when I configure a Dell system that's $500 less than an equivalent Mac
The last tyme I went to both Apple's and Dell's, and HP's, websites to price comparable systems Apple was lower than Dell. However even if it was more I'd happily pay a couple of hundred dollars more for a system that didn't crash on me and would last for years.
FalconThe reason I have a hard time dealing with Mac zealots (and yes, I do use Macs...) is that they tend to have the exact opposite view. People tend to take it personally when they're looked down on and considered idiots for using anything but Macs.
That describes zealots of all stripes whether Mac, Windows, or al Quada zealots. All computer and the OSes that run on them are tools and I believe in using the best tool for a given job.
FalconAs is Windows... You still have to waste the money on overpriced, proprietary hardware from Apple though. With almost no choice over components and little options to upgrade in the future. People blast Microsoft for vendor lock-in, but Apple has always been worse. But who cares when you get something that's sleek and cool looking like a Mac, right?
While I agree Apple is the lockin king, by controlling hardware and the OS Apple is able to sale something that "Just Works"! Apple is a systems integrator which means it can make sure all the parts work together. And they don't prevent third parties from making peripherals, replacement drives, or memory for Macs. All they do is prevent, or make hard, OSX from running on commodity PCs. As for what you get, you get a stable system that "Just Works". If Apple were to release OSX so it ran on commodity PCs, it's renevue would drop because of a decline in hardare sales. And the sale of OSX licenses wouldn't make up the difference unless the price for a license was high, but then who'd pay that much? Also because Apple wouldn't control the hardware the OS could become unstable. And if they did they'd crash right into the 800# guerilla of OSes, Microsoft.
FalconBut it's Ubuntu vs. Mac OS X, right? Not Ubuntu vs. Mac hardware. I know next to nothing about Ubuntu, but I'm assuming you can't run it from within Mac OS X...
Much like you can run Windows in a vm on Macs, you can run Linux in a vm as well. I understand installing Windows in a vm but why do so with Linux unless it's to experiment.
FalconIn a few days I'll be ordering a Macbook Pro and I'll been wondering about setting it up to dualboot Ubuntu. At first I was set to just that but now I'm wondering if doing so will mean I can do more with it. I've also got a PC with Linspire Linux preinstalled and want to dualboot Ubuntu on it as well. However I've been looking for a dl dvd drive to install. The Linspire website didn't list any dl dvd drives when I checked a week or so ago and Ubuntu's hardware compatibility page didn't list any. So I used the search box on the page and still didn't get any. Of course I can Google or use Alta Vista, which I'll do later. The problem I'll have though is actually installing one and getting it to work with both Linspire and Ubuntu. While many /.ers may not have a problem doing it, basically I'm a Linux newby.
FalconAh, so the same reason someone drives an SUV to their office.
For most SUVs on the road I totally agree. I doubt more than 10% of the SUVs on the road will ever be driven off a paved road. Yet when I grew up that's exactly why people got 4X4s, to go offroad. Heck I knew some that had 4X4s that were never driven on the road. At home they'd keep it on a trailer and tow it wherever. Once they got where they wanted to go offroad they'd unload it pretty much like a boat on a trailer. And the muddy water may be a few feet deep. We had some fun stumping around in the bogs.
I sometimes look as those driving Hummers and Rovers on the road and wonder if their ego is so fragile they need one to boost their selfesteem.
Falconthe market has shown which device people prefer - the mouse.
I don't really think people have decided they prefer a mouse to a trackball. I think the real reason most people use mice is because when they bought their computer it came with a mouse and not a trackball. I'd like to see a purchaser given the option of getting a mouse or a trackball with their computer.
Oh, I didn't say the above because I prefer trackballs. When I got my first laptop I got both a mouse and a trackball. After a few weeks I retired the trackball because I had problems using it. It's years later now and I'll be getting a new laptop, then I may try a trackball again.
FalconSo my question is: With all the things Microsoft does wrong, how come when they finally getting something right they drop the product?
Because if they kept it they would have had to raise their quality in other products? Whee people have something with good quality they expect more of that quality from the company. So instead of giving people that expectation of quality they discontinued it.
FalconI never understood people who use their whole arm to move a mouse...
Because it feels stronger.
FalconLong, long ago I tried a trackball at my friend's house, and decided I absolutely must have one. That was a good couple of years, til I switched back to a mouse permanently, and you better believe I never looked back. After experiencing both sides of the fence, using a mouse is far more intuitive and precise for many activities on a PC.
When I got my first laptop I got both a mouth and a trackball. After a few weeks I retired the trackball as it was bothered me too much. The only thing worse was the stick stuck in the keyboard. When I get a new Macbook Pro I may try again but I'd really love to get a Wacom tablet. If only I could afford the Cintiq.
Falconluiscosio.com/how-to-adobe-photoshop-cs2-on-ubuntu -10-steps
Thanks for the link, it may come in handy. I'll try FOOS graphics programs first and only get Photoshop if none of them work. If I get PS I hope it comes with disks for both OSX and Windows, that way I can run it on both my MBP and linux PC.
FalconConclusion: You have to pay at least 25% more now for less services than what you could get 9 years ago.
I don't what's up with some people paying more for cellular service now than 5 or 10 years ago. I pay less.
FalconOther things are that its hard to press the middle mouse button on a 1 button mouse :)
Well I never use the middle button though I do use the right button a lot. I know Macs simulate it (right click, I don't know about middle click), [option]click, but it'll still take me a while to get used to it. Two button mice can work with Macs, and I'll get one, but from my understanding not all Mac software makes use of the right button.
and theres a few other unix/max design philosophy differences to work around.
I haven't really used *unix in about 10 years, I've been using mostly Windows, so from that point I won't have work arounds to deal with between unix and OSX. Of course there will be between OSX and Windows. I should adjust pretty quickly as I used Macs for 10 years before Windows 95 and NT 4.0 came out.
FalconI haven't had any problems opening any MS Office files so far. It's based on OpenOffice.org with a native Mac UI, so it's as compatible as OO.org.
Yeah, I know NeoOffice is a native port of OO using Mac's gui. However I heard OO sometimes has problems opening MS Office documents, it doesn't like Office macros or something. If so, since many Office users use macros, I think it's inappropriate to say OO is compatible with MS Office.
FalconQuite true, but my point was that instead of making it easy to read, CIO.com seems to almost want its readers to avoid reading its articles. It's rather rediculous to have to resort to an ad blocker or to viewing the print page just to be able to read an article.
Maybe I'm just used to it but when I read an article online I almost always check for a print link first. For longer articles I prefer to print them out and read hardcopy as reading long webpages typically hurts my eyes, I'll get eye as well as head aches.
FalconCIO.com sure has a hardon for online ad revenue. Seventeen pages for one article, the article itself taking up only 1/3 of the page real estate for each page. Talk about a pain in the ass to read.
That's simple to solve, just click the print link. It all is on one webpage. Unfortunately my browser print preview shows it's still 11 pages without changing any settings. But there's no ads.
FalconI'm not going to pay for Windows, Mac OSX and Suse when I am already quite happy just using Ubuntu.
In about a week I'm getting a Macbook Pro and though I won't touch Windows with a 10 foot pole if I can avoid it, I'm thinking of setting up the MBP to dualboot Ubuntu as well.
FalconThat's the beauty of virtualization on the Intel Macs. You cease worrying about which OS is the best compromise; you simply use the best OS for the task at hand.
While you can run all three OSes on a Mac isn't running Windows, or Linux, in a VM slow?
FalconFor the Mac users, of course there are four options: Mac Office, Windows Office via Parallels or VMWare Fusion, standard OpenOffice.Org, and NeoOffice (native Mac port of OpenOffice.Org). I use the latter and have zero problems exchanging files with MS Office users.
Is NeoOffice really compatible with MS Office? In a week or so I'll be getting a MBP and want to try out NeoOffice, unlike OO, it doesn't require X11 to be installed does it? I want to try out as much FOOS as I can, and I don't want to touch any MS product with a 10 foot pole if I can avoid it.
Falconyes, Synaptic is better than YAST/2 but Suse's hardware management systems were better imho. I've gone for ease of installing.
What does it matter if something is easy to install but difficult to use? Or the other way around, what does it matter if something is easy to use but difficult to install? Between the two, the second is more important, because most people don't install an OS. People just want to use something.
FalconAdobe Creative Suite which is available on Windows (and thusly Linux via Wine)
Good luck trying to get CS3 running smoothly and without hazzle in Crossover, or WINE for that matter. The last tyme I checked, two or three months ago, the last version of PS that was certified to run well in Crossover was PH7.
FalconLinux fanatics can't expect everyone to edit xorg.conf by hand and apply diff patches to rebuild their wireless drivers.
By far not the only reason but one Reason I believe Linux hasn't taken the desktop by storm is because too many Linux famatics don't understand, don't want to admit, or simply want to keep Linux as an OS for geeks. Some groups or companies are making it easier to install and use Linux like Canonical and Linspire but until anyone can install and use Linux as easily as they can OSX or Windows, and Linux is preinstalled on more PCs, Linux will not have much of a market share of the desktop.
FalconI'm not complaining about the price of service. I'm just correcting the statement that Cingular is getting cheaper. Don't even try to steer this into an anti-iPhone rant.
Do you know how much Cingular charged 10 years ago? How about 5 years ago? I bet prices are lower today than back then. Five years ago you'd be hard pressed to find cellular service costing $50 with 100 minutes of airtime a month, now you can find service offering 1000 minutes a month for that if not less. It's been more than a year since I compared service plans but the last tyme I did I was able to find plans offering unlimited minutes for about $100 if I recall right. So yes, cell service has gone down in prices.
Falcon