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Mouse or Trackball?
Loconut1389 writes "I've been an avid mouse user for years, but lately all of the wrist movements have added up and combined with a desire for some added precision when not using my tablet in photoshop, I decided to purchase a large trackball. Logitech makes a few with a small, thumb controlled ball, but it looked like you'd get a tired thumb and have no added precision. After searching around, it seems that the only large one really available is a Kensington for about $90. Only CompUSA seemed to even carry the kensington in-store (and had none in stock). After ordering one online and using it for a few days now, I don't know how I ever lived with a mouse. The trackball has better precision, less wrist movement, and even gaming is pretty cool/easy with it (can spin it to whip around real quick, etc). All that said, it seems like trackballs have all but vanished except in medical fields (sonograms, etc) and perhaps graphic arts. I'm left insanely curious why trackballs haven't resurfaced now that optical technologies have fixed the main problems of old trackballs (and mice). Do you use a trackball? If so, are you in graphic design?"
My favorite input device has been a Kensington Turbo Mouse. It's a large trackball, a design I have been using for years going back to the original 1.0. They are great in reducing Repetitive Strain Injury (RSI) and allow more precision in control which is important for digital imagery work and image forensics.
;-) of course, on satellite imagery workstations back in 1990 and had to have one for my Mac systems. Unfortunately I had to endure a mouse with just about all of my SGI systems as the trackballs for those systems were either unavailable or just did not work as well as the mouse of hockey puck and digitizing board.
For a traditional mouse, Apple's Mighty Mouse is pretty good, but it simply does not have the robust reliability that the Kensington track balls have. For most of the Kensington trackball's history, they used high quality bearings which were nice and robust, but dirt could get trapped in between stalling the cursor movement. Recently with the Expert Mouse however, they have gone to a glass/plastic? bearing with an optical tracking mechanism that is far superior to just about anything else on the market.
It is interesting that the trackball has quite a long history. I first saw them, other than Missile Command
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The wife swears by her Logitech trackball, to the point where I had to buy her one for work (cheap enough and not even worth asking the boss).
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I use my fingers and arm more than my wrist when moving the mouse around. Never have any problems.
Not sure if it's still in production, but uses an oversized ball which can be manipulated by index finger or thumb.
Fantastic trackball - still using my original now for over 5 years.
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I have been using this same exact mouse for the last 6 years at work. I have 4 others for the utility and games machines at home.
When they make a better mouse, I'll switch in a heartbeat.
It hasn't happened yet.
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I have both plugged in to my pc - one trackball and one mouse. I prefer the trackball, but like to switch to reduce strain.
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I am not saying the Trackpad is better then a trackball in any particular area. But it has less moving parts that get gummed up offer much of the ergonimic benefits as a trackball. Lighter to carry and no balls to be stolen. The mouse sticks around because people know how to use it and they are trained to use it and it is easer to train people on how to use it because they move the mouse up the ball goes up. Vs a trackpad or a Trackball where you move you finger then the mouse moves. It is a difference between fine moter movements and gross movements. Also with optical mouses replaceing the old ball mice it offers a longer lasting more relable interface tool then both a balled mouse and a trackball.
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Do you mean a trackball or a spaceball? Spaceballs are used widely with modeling software such as Catia and UniGraphics.
-- toolie
How about the Trackpoint on thinkpads and such? Everyone I know with a thinkpad (including myself :D) swears by the little thing.
What is the model of the trackball you use?
...try looking at HAPP controls http://www.happcontrols.com/trackballs/trackballs. htm.
Admittedly, they make them for the video gaming world, but they are just USB (or PS2) trackballs. You can mount them directly into a table top. Nothing like a 3" trackball to work from.
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Ive had a microsoft trackball explorer since 2000 or so. It has come with me to every desk job ive worked, and i wouldnt consider using a mouse unless forced. It saves desk space, is easier to manipulate, and has a very comfortable design.
I cannot understand how it gets dirty so quickly. There are a couple metal bearings inside to keep the optical ball spinning freely, and they are constantly getting gummed up with skin flakes and whatever else constitutes desk dust. If not for that, it would be perfect.
Ive seen the kensington ball, and im not sure how id like it, given the position youd have to put your hand in as compared to my current trackball.
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A quick Amazon search shows quite a few models (15 or so at a quick glance), including what I am guessing is your Kensington. So I don't think they are too terribly difficult to find.
I have a few coworkers who use them - maybe 3 people out of around 80. Which isn't too bad I don't think. I know that for myself, I've just never used a trackball much outside of missile command. (And on a visit to a radar installation on a mountain once as a kid) That was a nice big trackball, but not real practical for using at a desk. Man, it would make my work day a lot more fun though -- this may be my next construction project. I can just start spinning it like crazy when I get frustrated, and the sound is sure to be pleasant to those in cubes around me. Making sure their day isn't too boring and quiet is a big part of what gets me through my day. I assume I'll need to track down some kind of used parts place to get one that size. They were 4.5 inches - and I don't think there is anything on the consumer pointer market now that is that size.
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Yes, I use a trackball, no I do custom, embedded linux os work.0 3-DT&cat=MOU
I use this one, I prefered to use my fingers instead of my thumb. $21
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=904360-04
I got it because my wrists hurt with a mouse, since I got this a few years back, my wrists don't hurt anymore.
Don't know why they cost more, the parts are the same concept. Production scale I suppose.
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Back in my day, we only had a keyboard and we liked it that way!
You should give the thumb-balls a try. Once you get used to it there's no drop in precision, if anything there it is greater. And your thumb won't get tired, assuming you find a model that your hand will rest comfortably on. I went thumb-ball maybe six or seven years ago, looking for an alternative to a mouse for playing Team Fortress Classic. I'll never use anything else for my main machines again.
I've been using the thumb-ball Logitech TrackMan since the first model, and on the modern optical-ball models, I have no lack of precision and no wrist or hand pain at all after almost 20 years of use. I love these things.
... but if you're a cellphone text messager your thumb could already be more dexterous than your fingers anyway :)
It's not great for first-person shooters, and can't write my signature with it, but I can always get the mouse pointer to the pixel I want. YMMV
I only wish I could get it in BlueTooth.
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Have this at work and home; hand in a reasonable curve, only have to roll my thumb, no travel space needed for shifting a mouse around.
I swear by the Logitech Trackman Wheel, viewable here. My wrist doesn't hurt like it did when I used a regular mouse.
They have a cordless version, but it's USB-based. If they made a Bluetooth version, it would be perfect.
I'm not a graphics artist and I use a Logitech USB Marble Mouse. The ball's about an inch in diameter. Costs about £20. ( http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/business/product s/mice_pointers/devices/156&cl=gb,en ).
I switched about 6 months ago when I started getting twinged in my wrist. Not had a problem since.
Marble Mouse USB from Logitech. The ball is about the size of a golf ball and operated with three fingers. Clicks are accomplished with thumb or little finger, but can also be hit in a wrist-roll left or right for an extended click. Has a scroll "button" pair.
Been using this or the previous PS/2 version for probably 5-7 years or so now. Love 'em! Used to sometimes use the old Atari trackballs (the pool ball size giant clunky things) back in the mid 90s, but the gritting up was a problem.
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I'm a trackball user, but not because of precision or anything. I'm using it because of the different movement that it offers. I'm doing 9+ hours behind a PC and my thinking is that this isn't really healthy. And besides that, I've learned myself to be able to use the mouse with my left hand. I think it helps, but nothing beats a little weight lifting in my case.
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I love this trackball. Helped stop my wrist pain. I run the track ball on the right side, and on the left side of the keyboard I have a mouse (set up for right handers, but I use my left) for once in a while usage.
Trackballs are great!
My preferred choice is a thumb-operated trackball. Your thumb does get tired initially, it's not used to being used that way. It's no worse than any change in pointing device, though, and in my case after a week I'd adapted and was more comfortable with the trackball than a mouse. I've never been comfortable with conventional trackballs with the ball under the fingers.
I originally swore by the Logitech Trackman Wheel, but then Logitech changed the design to make it too narrow for my fingers to be comfortable on the buttons. I switched to a Microsoft Trackball Optical, 5 buttons and much wider and more comfortable, but then MS discontinued that model (I've got an extra stashed away, though). Lately I've switched one computer to a Logitech laser mouse because I just can't find a trackball that suits that's still in production.
I use pointers more than keyboard as part of my job being a CAD monkey.
About 5 years ago I started getting RSI in my wrist, and purchased a Wacom tablet. I'm now on my third, a widescreen one to match the set-up I have with 2 widescreen LCD monitors, and would never go back to using a mouse most of the time.
The ability to move the pad about to change the way you hold the pen is fantastic, and my wrist has been fine ever since. It takes a while to get used to the pad having an absolute relationship to the screen, but it's worth it.
I'm a professional programmer, and spend about 50 hours a week typing, between work and home. I've found the best way to keep from having hand/wrist problems is to get regular exercise. I haul my ass to the gym 2-3 times a week like clockwork to lift weights and run. Since I've started, my hand problems have cleared up completely.
I like trackballs too. It's a mystery to me as well why they're not more widely available.
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Trackballs, laser mice, and old style mice all have PIXEL PRECISION. If you can pick a pixel you want to click on, and you can click on it, you have as high precision as possible. And I have yet to find any mouse that doesn't allow me to do exactly that.
Take your mouse, and see if you can move it 1 pixel to the left. Ok, now see if you can move it 1 pixel down. If you managed both, then congratulations you have a working mouse ^_^
What one would want to consider is response time, how frequently random lag occurs, ergonomics, button arrangement, ease of driver installation, button configuration software, general signal strength if it's wireless (does your other arm block the signal sometimes? I've seen that happen), general build quality, and button/scrollwheel/trackball "feel" (that new Logitech mouse with the scroll wheel that doesn't "click" when you move it comes to mind), etc.
The precision argument might have been relevant... oh heck I don't know when. It was probably never relevant.
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I use the Kensington Expert Mouse (4-button, spinny wheel for scrolling, big ball) for nearly everything at home. My travel device is a Logitech Trackman Marble; it has the bonus that the ball stays in it at odd angles and you can put it nearly anywhere. Either is unequviocally and totally superior to any mouse I've ever used.
My Expert Mouse developed a minor nuisance, I forget what, and I asked Kensington about it. They sent me a new one as a replacement, free. Right there, we see the price difference between the Expert Mouse and cheap crap mice evaporate.
I hate mice. I love trackballs.
If you're doing a lot of graphics, you might also pick up a tablet.
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Mouse/Track balls are for amateurs. If you want precision, get a Wacom pen tablet.
Although I would have to consider myself a "Mac fanboy", Microsoft does occasionally get something right. I'm very happy with the MS optical trackball ("Microsoft TrackBall Explorer Optical Mouse") I've been using for several years. The layout is very odd (you use your thumb to right and left click, on the left side of the mouse), but works fine once you're used to it. I used to use a Kensington trackball and liked it too. Can't really remember why I went with the MS one when I replaced it.
I use one of the Logitech Marble's ( http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/tr ackballs/devices/156&cl=us,en ).. unfortunately it was the largest trackball I could find for $100 at the time.. Initially I wasn't sure it would suit my needs (mostly just ergonomics), and it wasn't a 'thumb' only style..
I never tried any real Graphics Art type stuff with it however... i've found it's easy enough to 'lock' the left-right movement of the ball by using the side of my middle finger on the side of the ball, but I can't imagine how you would do the same with horizontal movement.
Aside from that, it's been great for me.. I really like that I don't have to worry about trying to move a mouse in the semi-confined area I have for a work desk.
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It has a large ball, multiple buttons, and can be used for long periods of time comfortably. I have used mine for years and love it. I found one on amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-TrackMan-Marble-FX- Trackball/dp/B00000JBUI, although I can't imagine the prices they are asking for it - mine cost far less than $100 when I bought it. My wife and kids don't have a problem with it either - highly recommend.
I have an old Logitech Trackman Marble+, and I couldn't live without it. The best trackball bar none Logitech ever made as far as ergonomics go - it's really wide, perfect for my hand to rest naturally upon (unlike the newer trackmans, which have the same much higher shape as the long since discontinued mousemans), and then my thumb needs to make only minimal movements.
It sucks in that it doesn't have a USB connection, and I need to clean the contacts the ball rests upon almost weekly, but these are things I'll happily accept.
Don't understand why trackballs are as margenalized as they are, but I guess people just became too conservative with input devices before they ever managed to take off.
I use them at work and home. The Trackball Explorer is fantastic. And yes, playing games with it rocks like Gibraltar!
I use it on my Powerbooks, and the FreeBSD server I run on the basement... I realize this is sacrelig, but the things kick ass.
This
I love my trackball, but have had to put it into temporary retirement; my two year old likes stealing the ball a little too much.
At my last job, the boss allowed us to request a Logitech Marble Mouse instead of a regular soap-bar mouse. It took less than a minute to fall in love with the thing. Instead of cramped wrists shoving around a rectangular box, suddenly I was able to use my fingertips to use the CAD system. In a matter of days, all the problems I had suffered from due to years of CAD work disappeared.
I bought some extras to outfit the home systems.
Now that I've changed jobs, that marble mouse is still on my desk, working as well as the day I first got it, and I'll never look back.
And yes - gaming takes on a whole new dimension when you use a ball instead of a mouse. I'm a FPS addict and being able to quickly turn, look, and fire makes the game more fun. Plus I don't end up with cramps in my wrist after playing for an hour or so.
So, yes. I recommend them highly.
I am not sure what you saw as the main problem of the pre-optical mice and trackball, but mine would have been cleaning the old roll ball, as it became quite greasy and dirty from extended use.
>br> With optical mice, that problem went away from mice for me. Although the surface still needs regular cleaning (I have sweaty fingers and use the mouse quite a lot), the bottom with the optical sensor now just needs a quick swipe or so every few months.
But with a trackball, the ball itself is still touched by myself, it only gets tracked optically. So it still gets dirty, at least in my limited experience (I do not use a trackball very much, but that is pure personal preference) and it still has to be cleaned as regularly as before. So at least in my opinion, optical technology did help mice much more than trackballs in this regard.
Where I work (General Nanosystems in Minneapolis, MN) we carry several.
I know we have the Logitech and Microsoft ones but I think we might have a couple of the Kennsington ones, too. I'd say we have about in between 7-10 different models.
http://www.generalnanosystems.com/
I started using them when I saw the FAA Air Traffic Control consoles use them. If it's good enough when people's lives are on the line, it's good enough for Turbo Pascal. And some friends and family who have borrowed one of my machines to use has started using trackballs.
:(. I see they are $20 online.
When touch typing, it's nice to know exactly where the pointing device is. And when you have limited deskspace, even better. (My favorite device is the pointing-stick between the G and H key; though gaming I prefer the trackball--and mice are only useful when I've had to use the wheel extensively.)
Currently using Logitech MarbleMouse (have always been able to find them at CompUSA (RIP brick-and-mortar)). The all-optical detector never jams, though it seems the driver can't get the "middle button using left-and-right" click working
I've been using the cheap $20 Logitech optical trackballs on my main machines for years. For graphic design, 3-D building, audio stuff, and pretty much anything that requires precision control for long stretches of time, there really is no possibility of me ever going back to a mouse.
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i have gone through about 5 computers in that time, but i have consistently migrated the trackball. it just needs to have the accumulated lint picked out when response gets a little sluggish once every 3 months or so. i swear by the thing. superior to a mouse, superior to your regular big bowling ball trackballs, and superior to the other goofy flavors of trackball that puts the ball off center. on all measures of ergonomics: ease of use (smaller desk footprint), comfort and safety (very comfortable, more natural than a regular mouse), etc
although if you are a graphics artist, you probably want the precision from a heavy trackball. but if you are regular computer user, you cannot go wrong updating to the thing:
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http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/tr ackballs/devices/166&cl=us,en
Been using this mouse from the first gen back in the late 90's and have kept buying the newer models when the old ones wear out. No thumb fatigue ever, and its way more precise that most mice I use (I'm an IT professional, I handle a lot of mice). I highly recommend you give it a shot, its only US$30 for a corded version.
I'm left-handed, and this is the primary reason I use a Kensington trackball. They are pretty much the only company I've found that makes a decent hand-neutral trackball. In fact, pretty much every interface device they make is hand-neutral. I've used almost every model they've made in the last 10 years, and currently I'm pretty happy with the Orbit Optical. The customization software is half of what you are paying for, and it's worth it. They have pretty much identical Mac/PC interfaces (they started as a primarily Mac peripherals shop IIRC) and just fucking work. I've used trackballs for gaming, graphics, programming, music, it's no different than a mouse, really, and takes up less desk space due to the elimination of the pad area and the moving cord. And when right handed folks come to my desk, they just pick it up, move it to the other side (no clearing a spot for the mouse padding), maybe flip mouse buttons if they want, and they are good to go.
As for Logitech, they are crap. Most of their line (even the mice) is right-hand biased, their drivers are all over the place, they don't do Mac very well, and their products have always felt a bit cheesy (no pun) to me.
Just as an aside, if hand-neutrality is important to you as a gamer, you should look into Saitek products. Most everything they make is adjustable to work left- and right-hand. No, I don't work for Kensington or Saitek.
The only thing I don't really like a trackball for is FPS shooters. I'm considering a Razer (hand-neutral, natch), but it would only get dragged out a few times a year, so it's not very high on my list.
Oh sorry, wrong debate...
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It's been out of production for some time, but Microsoft used to make Optical trackballs. You can find them on e-bay often. These things ROCK! (I own 3, and am getting a 4th). I use them at home, office, and with my laptop... It takes some getting used to, but once you're there, far better than a mouse... The only thing is that your thumb can get sore after 8 hours of using it...
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I have used an old Logitech Trackman Marble (link) but mine didn't have the scroll wheel. I love them so much I bought a few extra. Out of the 5 I purchased, I still have 4 of them which I use regularly. Once I got used to it I never considered going back. I still use the traditional mouse and have no problem with those at work, etc.. but when it comes to gaming or other high precision controls, trackballs are the way to go. You can ask my friends, I used to kick their asses in quake and halflife everytime :)
Trackballs have a major advantage over regular mice that comes up often in my day. Space. The space I have for my mouse and keyboard is a bit cramped, and a trackball never has to worry about hitting the edge of the space, whether i'm working or gaming. For my laptops, since I strongly dislike both the touchpad and the laptop nipple, I have found a handheld USB trackball is an excellent option. http://www.pacificgeek.com/product.asp?c=231&s=114 9&ID=21847&P=F for example. It fits comfortably in my hand, and it is much more portable than the other options.
I have a mouse for the laptop and a Kensington trackball (the big one with four buttons and the scroll ring) for my desktop. I am a graphic designer, as well. I used to carry the trackball around in my laptop bag, but I find that the mouse is a lot easier to travel with.
I'd have trackballs for all my computers if I could afford it -- I got the trackball when I was having wrist problems, and while those have cleared up even with more mouse use again, I still much prefer the trackball (though it's not so good for Tiger Woods golf). And the scroll ring is awesome -- it's one of the more intuitive additions to an input device I've ever personally experienced.
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Logitech Marble Mouse is my only option, as I'm sinistral.
I started to have wrist problems a couple of years ago. I switched hands and used my mouse left-handed then. I am not ambidextris but it didn't take to long to learn to use the mouse that way. (I don't switch the buttons, just sort-of hold the mouse at a diagonal.) No more wrist problems.
I'm more of a developer than graphic designer, but the reason I haven't gone to trackball is that I just don't like it. I find it to be uncomfortable and unnatural (for lack of a better word) when using it. Maybe it's just that I've been using mice for so damn long that I can't get used to anything else, but at the end of the day it's just not my thing.
I don't think you could conclusively say that either one is "better" than the other; it's just a matter of personal preference. Some people like mice, some people like trackballs. Asking people why they don't switch is like asking them why they persist in using one color case rather than another.
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Wrist problems with using a mouse? What? Sounds to me like you need to make some sensitivity adjustments to your mouse to require move movement. If you can can jump from one side of the screen to the other with a flick of the wrist, you need to cut your sens by half at least. You should use arm to navigate the screen and the wrist should be used for precision and smaller movements.
Another thing that makes using a mouse much more comfortable is to move where it rests. To the right of the keyboard is the worse place... so uncomfortable. I keep all my mice, at work or home, directly to the right of me. Essentially I am the apex of a right angle with my keyboard and mouse. Try it, stick your arm out and you'll see how much more natural it feels. The only gripe you might have is that your hand is next to the keyboard anymore, but that is not an issue in the least. You will find it makes no difference at all, either way your right hand is completely removed from the keyboard.
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I'm looking for a trackball ON a mouse. Sorta like he mighty mouse, but much bigger.
Also, the thumb and pinky buttons should be wheels as well, at 45 degree angles probably.
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I`ve always preferred thumb controlled trackballs. Specifically the logitech trackman.
My main problem with traditional computer mice is that you frequently have to re-position them. Especially when you have several monitors. You can set the speed really high, but then you loose precision. I find a trackball gives me precision, then when I need to quickly move a large distance (like, across two monitors), I can just spin the ball and let it glide over.
I have never found my thumb getting tired, but I tried a trackball that used the index finger, and found my hand got sore fairly quickly.
Should be noted that I`m not into graphics at all.
They may look stupid and it takes a while to get used to them but they work... at least for me.
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Was some off brand keyboard from the late 90's. Had a large trackball on the right side of the keyboard and the mouse buttons on the the lower left side of the keyboard. It was a very natural flow due mostly to the trackball and the buttons being split on different sides of the keyboard. But it died and I haven't been able to find a similar replacement since.
But I do agree that trackballs are superior to mice, but I always end up using a mouse for some reason. Anything is better than a trackpad.
I use a tablet and it's stylus for everything now. Once you get used to it you'll never want to go back.
I've been using these for years. Currently the Expert Mouse Pro and their original version Expert Mouse? I got hooked on trackballs ever since I spent more than a couple of semester tuitions at Univ of Bflo playing Centipede that I could not do with out it. Although I get a lot of comments from my work mates who think it looks odd. But hey, it works.
When I came down with RSI due to mouse usage, I did some research and picked up a Logitech Trackman Marble FX. It's the most comfortable trackball I've used bar none and really helped with the RSI. Unlike Logitech's recent offerings the ball is huge and is meant to be manipulated by the index and middle fingers, while the thumb handles left and middle mouse buttons; the ring finger handles middle click. I found this to be easier to handle than any design where the thumb has to manipulate the ball. It's also optical based, so there's no gunk that builds up in rollers that needs to be cleaned. The one con of the design is that it's really hard to click two buttons simultaneously: hence, this is not a trackball you want to use for Maya unless you're prepared to change the default button mappings. Unfortunately, Logitech never came out with a left-hand version of this mouse (it's definitely biased towards right hand usage), and the model has been discontinued - it's obviously in demand since it seems to go for over $250 on Amazon, last time I looked. But if you can find one cheap I highly recommend it.
When I started working here I requested a trackball, and this is the one they ordered for me. I wouldn't have chosen it myself, but I found it to work really well.
Movement is controlled by the index and middle fingers, and the main buttons and wheel by the thumb. There are two more buttons for the ring and pinky fingers.
About once or twice a month I have to pop the ball out and move some irritating piece of lint off the sensor or the bearings, but every trackball I've ever seen has the same issue.
Trackball here, too, though my pick is the Logitech Optical TrackMan (I think; don't remember the actual name for certain). I love being able to use it without any significant flat surface with my laptop.
What I really don't understand, though, is why oh why does nobody make a good Bluetooth trackball?? Every cordless trackball out there (except for one, called The Ball, but I need many buttons, not just 2 & no scroll wheel...) uses an RF transmitter that plugs in by USB. I would have thought that doing away with that transmitter would be an absolute no-brainer once Bluetooth became common on laptops...
Dan Aris
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The best trackball ever was in a set of two on the 1984 Marble Madness cabinet. They were always well-lubricated with grease drippings from slices of pizza.
I've been using the exact same Logitech Trackman Marble (not even a wheel) for almost 12 years now. The thing fits my hand absolutely perfectly, and I'll keep using it until I can't get a desktop with a PS/2 mouse port anymore, and can't get coverters to work. I love this discountinued model so much, I have replaced the left button switch three times and the right switch twice to keep it alive. (All mice seem to use the exact same microswitches... a soldering iron, soldapault, some RadioShack solder, and it's as good as new.)
That mouse, and my trusty IBM Model M keyboard are the holy er... not-quite-a-trinity of input devices.
SirWired
I am quite a fan of the Logitech Racing Wheel (http://amazon.com/o/ASIN/B00006HYLN/ref=s9_asin_i mage_1-1966_g1/105-7930545-3200424?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKI KX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1SEZHC3YVRP9Y6VAZ8 W4&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=278240701&pf_rd_i=507846/). I use the wheel to move left and right and the accelerator to go up and down the screen. I can even use the brake and gear shifter when I need more buttons. It's pretty awesome. Sometimes, when I'm really bored, I just sit at my PC and do laps around the edge of my screen...
I've seen Microsoft's trackball and it's very nice, but it's not available in a left-handed version. Logitech's and Kensington's are symmetrical, so I use them.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8 2E16826141001&Tpk=evoluent
I started using a vertical mouse and its helped a lot.
I've had inflammation in my mouse arm for several years now.
Since I've started using this mouse my symptoms have started to subside.
I also take more breaks, do stretches, etc to help alleviate the symptoms.
The vertical mouse helps by keeping the arm from being twisted when using the mouse.
It does take some getting used to, but its worth the effort.
Also look closely at your work environment from an ergonomic point of view. Most IT professionals I've met don't pay any attention to the ergonomics of their work station, at work or at home. I didn't for years and I've now had bilateral carpal tunnel releases, repeated tendinitis and other problems related to poor ergonomics and repetitive stress issues. I'm only 39.
Shop smart, Shop S-Mart.
Anyone else remember that old arcade football game, where the trackball was the size of a bowling ball?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
No thanks.
[1] Yes, I use one. It's attached to the exercise machinery because there's no suitable surface for a mouse. It's also even harder to get right when you're stepping on the stair machine, but fortunately I'm not trying to do anything much.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
I my laptop at home, I have eschewed the mouse/trackpad option complete for the pen. I have suffered far less repetitive strain and the use of a pen is intuitive even to a child. I just wish my boss would let me replace my work PC monitor with a pen-input screen.
Bearded Dragon
Logitech makes the Marble Mouse - a finger-operated (not thumb) trackball. Usually found around $20 at Staples, 4 buttons on it, USB/PS2. Tracks very fast movements of the ball (aliasing threshold is very high). I use it to play FPS games all the time and it works very well. Highly recommended. I use these exclusively when I can help it.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10);'
I use a Microsoft Trackball Optical on my Linux and OS X machines and absolutely love it. It was a little awkward for the first week or so, but now it's as seamless to me as a mouse ever was. No, my thumb doesn't get tired. Yes, my wrists feel better. They're apparently not everybody's cup of tea, but I absolutely love them.
A huge drawback to the palm-operated trackball the submitter seemed to be wanting is that you're always moving your fingers away from the action buttons. For example, clicking a menu then coming back to where you were involves: rolling your hand upward until the heel of your hand is on the trackball and your fingers are out of position to click; lifting your hand; moving it back to where you can click with your fingertips; rolling your hand downward until your fingertips are now on the ball and out of clicking position; lifting it; moving your hand back. Compare with the thumb-activated models: move your thumb then click.
I'm sure you could acclimate to that, but I'm comfortable enough with my thumb model that I wouldn't particularly want to learn.
Microsoft isn't all bad. They make some fine peripherals.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Try this:
http://www.evoluent.com/
It really is more natural than a regular mouse. The only reason I don't switch is because I spend so much of my day on other people's computer, I would probably always be getting confused.
Also I used to use a trackball on my old Mac's. All of my family did back then, but they just seemed to away even more than the Mac.
There is a huge variety of input devices, besides mice, trackballs, trackpoints, touchpads, tablets, pens, etc.. For some examples see this overview of DIY Custom Mouse Replacements - Selfmade Adaptive Pointer Devices and Foot Mice.
I don't see how spinning a ball is even remotely more accurate than just moving a mouse to the exact point I wish to click on. With a ball you have to concern yourself with the velocity, mass inertia, and stopping the ball at the correct point. Don't get me wrong, I love my THREE trackballs. But I love them because they work within the context they were designed for: Centipede, Missile Command and Crystal Castles. ;-)
I was just fine until I got my '99 IBM Thinkpad 600E. I had shooting pains up & down the one arm within a couple months. So I switched to the other hand for operating the trackpoint, and before long I had shooting pains up and down that arm too. So I switched back & forth. Then I spent a day working on my cs2 final project. By evening I had a burning sensation across my shoulders and up the neck, and I was miserable for the rest of my college career.
Later I learned that it wasn't so much the trackpoint that did me in, but a bump on the chin the year before, that left me without memories of a two week period (in addition to other traumas I've sustained over the years). After a year and a half of treatments, my osteopath has me straightened out pretty well, and I can use the keyboard with only a little discomfort. I'd be well, if only I could relax my body - there's an old, forgotten osteopathic technique for a 'relaxing treatment', it's just a matter of finding someone who's willing to try something different.
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com
I tried one for a while and found that if you try to move, say, down and then left, with your thumb starting in the center of the ball, the "left" movement just rotates the trackball clockwise, and the cursor doesn't move left. A big, sensitive trackball doesn't have this problem because you can move pretty much as far as you want without moving your fingers far from the center.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
sticking up from my keyboard.
I am odd that way.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
I'm not in graphic design, but I've been using a Trackman with a scroll wheel for about 5 years and I love it. I have big hands, so it's much easier to use than a mouse. It also lets me keep my desk cluttered.
I have gas, but my car uses petrol.
I just use my mind-computer interface: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BCI.jpg
Since 1992, I've been using trackballs from ITAC (http://www.mousetrak.com/), first the professional, then the evolution trackball after that. I had pretty severe RSI after the birth of my first child, and went through just about every trackball on the market. The Logitech ones with the thumb controlled ball are absolutely horrible. The thumb is not designed for precision movements; it's for grasping. The MouseTrak stood alone as being a quality trackball that holds up to years of heavy use. The Evolution trackball that I bought back in the mid-late 1990s still gets 10 hours a day of heavy use. And the MouseTrak (and work surface height adjustment) completely cured my RSI problems. If you can't afford an Evolution MouseTrak, I recommend the Logitech MarbleMouse as my second choice. I have that trackball on all the other machines in the house, and my wife and kids all love them. My wife replaced the mouse at her work with a Logitech MarbleMouse, because she just can't stand mice.
In my graphic design studio I use a mouse (cordless Logitech MX Laser 1000, best mouse I've ever used). I've been using a mouse since the eighties and have never had any pain or tiredness from using them. My partner uses a trackball (Kensington Expert Mouse PRO). Neither one of us can understand how the other uses our preferred device. All I know is that trying the paint with a trackball is way more difficult than with a mouse. If all you have to do is click points and move them from place to place, I can see a trackball being a good alternative to the mouse. For fluid, precise "live" movement (like sketching or playing an FPS) a trackball just doesn't work. If you have to do any amount of freehand work, get a LARGE Wacom tablet. Don't skimp on the size, fidelity, or brand name. I have a small 10+ year old Wacom tablet that works as advertised but its tiny active area makes it all but useless. Think BIG.
+0 Meh
They used to make a product called the Spaceball, but since Logictech bought them, they've moved to space*. Maybe they were afraid of Mel Brooks coming after them for Copyright infringement. :P
http://www.3dconnexion.com/products/3a.php
But the trackball is my favorite 2d product, though the new ones aren't as stable/sturdy as the older ones. I've noticed my new one will occasionally tip, affecting my navigation.
"If still these truths be held to be
Self evident."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay
I used a Kensington Orbit trackball for years. I'm back to regular mice now. With the Orbit, you use your fingers for the ball, your thumb for left button, and pinkie for right button. I found that after a while, I developed symptoms of RSI in my hand, but different from that stemming from a regular mouse.
Also, hand dirt and grime would build up on the ball and deposit itself on the roller mechanisms inside. I'd periodically have to pop the ball out and clean the insides. It's just an upside-down mechanical mouse in that regard. Looks like the newer Orbits are now optical instead of mechanical.
It was nice in that you don't have to move it around on the confines of a mouse pad, and you can quickly shoot your cursor to far ends of your monitor without much movement.
Now you've got me looking at the Kensington Expert Mouse (trackball). Hmm...
4 Years with a mouse, 6 years with a trackball (kensington) and I found that you cannot get the pricision with a trackball that you can with a mouse...but a tablet is even better.
Trackballs are imprecise at small movements, mice at smooth arcs and tablets allow you to do any shape in any dimension that your hand could normally do on your workspace.
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
As a complete opposite to you, I use virtually only my fingers and a little bit of wrist. My arm is rested on the desk. I feel that using my entire arm and parts of my upper body to slide a few grams of plastic around the table is overkill. But that's what most people around where I work do, their arms stretched out in front of them. The mice related physical issues here are normally neck/arm/shoulder related, not wrist. I can't help but feel there's a connection.
Most of those with pain opt for a vertical type mouse over a trackball.
None of my mice have balls and I'm damn proud of it! /me uses wireless optical mice
Those balls fit into some Kensington trackballs (and you can get the housing in black). Try Mac stores. Kensington sells traditionally better there.
I've got just hte opposite problem. Using laptops with the stupid glide point, I routinely hit the glidepoint with my hand. However, with the trackpoint, I never move it unintentionally. I've now got one for my desktop too. Trackpoint rocks.
I used a Kensington Turbo Mouse for years at work. They are built to last and are great trackballs. At some point I started using Microsoft Intellieye mice , not sure why/when I switched but that's what I've used for several years now.
At work and my wrists have thanked me ever since. It took a little while to get used to, because my hand wasn't used to using fingers (as apposed to the whole arm) to finely manipulate the cursor, but after a few weeks I like using better than a mouse. But don't get rid of the mouse! I left my mouse hooked up for those who want to use my terminal and aren't adept at using a trackball.
We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
I do almost all of my computing with my laptop, lying on the couch. No desktop real-estate at all here. I tried optical mouses and they were okay, not great. So, when my mouse got stolen (yeah, stolen), I took it as an opportunity to try something new. I've been gaming for a while and heard miracle stories about trackballs in FPS, so I picked one of the thumb-controlled dealies from Logitech. I can understand what you mean about no more precision, it's just as bad as my mouse was on precision, but I don't move it around at all, don't have to lift it up when I make a big move and it's comfortable. I don't know why these things ever went out of style!
like the 3-dimensional navigator SpaceNavigator.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Do you use a trackball? If so, are you in graphic design?
No, and no.
/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
So how do you spot a good trackball? Damned if I know. I'll know one when I see one. In the meantime, I use mice.
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
I have the Kensington Expert Mouse trackball. Much more comfortable and easier to control then the smaller Logitech ones. You roll the ball with your fingers instead of just your thumb, bug difference. The scroll ring around the ball is fantastic as well--I flick it around with my ring finger without having to move my hand at all. Can work for hours on this thing, whereas a mouse or touchpad only about 20-30 minutes until my wrist/arm/fingers start to hurt.
The only problem is it's not portable at all! I bought one of those old school clip-on trackballs back from the 486 laptop days and it kinda stays on my HP nc2400--it's bearable.
Try one if you have wrist issues with a mouse!
-m
http://www.invisik.com
In my experience, I've found that, even more than the old fashioned ball mouse, track balls seem to wear out rather quickly. Maybe it's the weight of the large ball that stresses the cheap plastic wheels used underneath, which tend to develop flat spots, but after going through two or three in about 18 months, I gave up on the whole thing and stuck with the optical mouse. Don't know if the trackballs made today are any better than yesteryear's, but I sort of doubt it. Companies need to make these things as cheap as they can, and the hidden parts of the thing are the best places to shave cost, because most people won't notice right off the bat.
The only problem with using a trackball today is I'd miss all those extra buttons when I play First Person Shooters.
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Senator Carl Schurz (1872)
I used a Logitech Marble Mouse (a non-standard design trackball) from the time I built my first computer (around 1999) until the beginning of this year, I replaced it with...the newest version of the Logitech Marble Mouse. I love the Marble Mouse, it's easy to use once you get the hang of it and confusing to people who don't regularly use it (less people asking to use my computer at LAN parties). I'm chronically short on desk space (read: slob) so I've always loved trackballs. I especially find it funny when my friends ask how I can possibly game with a trackball, then we play a shooter and it ends 20-5 with me winning.
I use a trackball
I'm not in graphic arts
Too much EQ tailoring, general computer use, and bad typing habits gave me RSI in the wrists a few years back. It sucks... I can't ride a normal bicycle for too long anymore (I use a recumbent now), I can't use a pen too long, typing can suck, etc etc etc.
I'm only 28! Hey all you young'ins... USE A TRACKBALL. NOW. You'll regret it later if you don't. It takes some getting used to, but it's better than your wrists always twinging in pain when you're doing stupid things you used to take for granted.
Remember, all this computer stuff came out BEFORE ergonomics. We carry a lot of old holdovers from the Elder Geeks that suck. This stuff has only now been around long enough for long term effects to be seen.
My wrists are manageable now, but only because I gave up mousing completely, stopped playing computer games, am anal about my typing posture, and got rid of my nice bicycle (Ok, so I got a nicer bicycle, but still, it sucked.) My wrists still hurt mind you, it's just a low grade hurt that I live with.
If your wrists are bothering you, STOP using a computer for a week. Ice and cold your wrists. Get a trackball. I mean it about that computer use!
Ok.... I'm done. I hope someone sees this and heeds my warning.
-Tony
I did layout for a local newspaper for a couple of years, and used a trackball at that job. I wasn't too impressed - I got used to it eventually, but it didn't seem any better than the mouse. In fact, I found it harder to make tiny, precise movements with the trackball than with a mouse. I felt like I had to tense up my whole hand to make sure the ball didn't move too far. The mouse, I just grip it a little tighter and move it within my hand instead of moving my hand. Maybe if the ball were bigger (this one was about 1"-1.5") it would be easier to do that.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
And when the ball inside went so did the control. I use one all the time and unless you pony up $30+ for a mousepad that works they tend to do unusual things like fly into the corner for no reason. Even then the control is not suited for gaming.
Now I use the back of a Composition book that also doubles as a notebook. The random blotch pattern in black and white is ideal. At a buck or two these are great.
They do eat batteries. NiCad don't last but a good fast charger w/ a four pack of AAAs do well enough.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
I prefer trackballs because they require less space and I just like the way they feel. But every time I use one lately my hand starts hurting. Maybe this is why they are dying out. Also they do take some practice to use well. It's not as intuitive as a mouse.
Not seen a mention for my weapon of choice yet:r ackballs/devices/189&cl=us,en
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/t
Used to swear by the Marble Mouse but I now prefer TrackMan as I find it more comfortable as it holds the wrist at a more natural angle and has a scroll wheel.
Combined with a short, laptop style, keyboard with a separate USB number pad ( http://www.yellowgrey.com/desk.jpg ) I have eliminated the pains I used to get in my right hand from using a mouse and right shoulder I used to get from reaching across the numpad for the trackball.
Stupid flounders!
I've used other trackballs and none of them come close (in the $100 range). I started with a Microspeed (Logitech, I think). Found out that plastic bearings, easily bent axles and a cheap plastic ball are a bad combination. Then I tried a Kensington Expert Mouse. It was fantastic. 6 years later, I've still got the original one (serial port!), had to replace one of the Omron switches. I've bought 3 more over the years, one for the spare computer, one for work, and one for traveling. They are hard to find, except at CompUSA, as you've said.
I used a VRLogic SpaceBall for a project once (CAE).
-
And yes, I *am* a fanboy, and no, I don't work for them.
Smooth as silk, baby. And with great drivers that let you control the speed and acceleration -- you can even draw your own acceleration curve.
I've used one version or another of the Kensington Expert Mouse (PC version of the Turbo Mouse) for years. I recently switched from the mechano-optical version to the purely optical. The former had the very slight disadvantage that it used to get enough cat hair in it every 9 or 10 months that it would block the sensors. But their own website had a step-by-step diagram of how to take it apart and clean it -- how cool is that? How many hardware companies actually encourage you to open the case?
I love my new four-button mouse with the sliding ring that mimics a mousewheel.
All Kensington's gear is really solid and comes with a great warranty. I only wish they made clothes and computers and cars...
I piss off bigots.
Trackballs were never *that* popular, especially as a stand-alone device, but changes in mouse technology have made them more expensive to produce, and therefore even less popular. Alow me to explain.... Once upon a time, all mice worked by having a small ball in their underbelly which rolled as you moved the mouse around. This is basically the same as a trackball upside-down. For this reason, companies that produced mice could produce trackballs very easily using most of the same components, and therefore even though mice were more popular, trackballs were not overly expensive. Lately, optical mice have taken over. These work entirely differently, and as a result, factories that produce these cannot use the same components to make trackballs. So costs of production go up while demand remains low, and there's no longer any synergy for companies to make mice and trackballs together, so no-one bothers to make them any more.
I am not a graphics user. I like to play games and surf the web and do other mundane tasks with my computer and I prefer trackballs. I have ever since I first used a trackball around 20 years ago. I really don't like mice but will use them if I have nothing else. I have been looking for a replacement trackball and having a hard time finding one but will look into the Kensington.
I would strongly urge people to look for other alternatives besides Kensington. I have used several revisions of their mice, and used to swear by their products. I recently purchased an ExpertMouse, and was using it for several months with no problems.
One day I was cleaning out my computer room, throwing away a bunch of old paperwork that wasn't being used, and I found the product manual for the mouse. I noticed a sticker on the back of the manual saying that the mouse cord contained products known to cause cancer (I believe it was lead), and to make sure to wash your hands after handling the mouse.
Up to this point, I had been carting the mouse to and from work every day because I liked it so much, and not washing my hands after handling it each time. Now, seriously, who in the hell uses lead in a mouse cord?!?!?!
I used to swear by this company, they had provided great service in the past, but I can't accept their current manufacturing processes.
One of these days i'm going to find this 'peer' guy and reset HIS connection!
i am mostly left handed, tho i use my mouse with my right hand because so many mice are shaped for right hands. plus as an IT guy, i spend more time working on servers and other people's computers than i spend using my own computer. when i game (COH, LOTRO), i try to use the mouse as little as possible, but when i do, it's still right handed.
when i use a laptop, i use the touch pad left handed, probably because it's in a neutral position (the center of the keyboard instead of on the right side). i have not run across many left handed trackballs, from what i have seen, they are either right handed (meant for thumb use) or (mostly) ambidextrous.
i have found track balls to be useful in a handful of situations, mostly on cluttered work benches where space might be tight. not having to move the base is very handy when space is limited.
do any other southpaws have a preference when it comes to trackballs?
sarcasm:
-noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
I was in that boat, some years back. I remember the huge, blue Kensington trackball being shaped like a Jack-in-the-box with terrible resolution -- you literally had to hold your hand above it and move it a la Centipede, circa level 13, to get the pointer even halfway across the desktop. It was mechanically operated and I hated it.
Then I found the Logitech Marble. An ergonomic, OPTICAL, ambidextrous gem. 20 bucks at Fry's. 10 bucks on Overstock. 4 programmable buttons. Fits a lefty like me (or a probable righty like you) like the proverbial glove.
But the nicest thing about the Marble -- awesome resolution.
Use Photoshop? Have no fear. With the right resolution (pointer movement, not screen,) you'll be using your middle finger in an exciting new way.
Just don't think you'll ever escape the carpal tunnel monster if you compute for 8+ hours a day. Even with a trackball you are still putting strain on the area with repeated fine movements.
Moral of the story: keep several different mice/trackballs on hand. Switch between them. Do your wrist exercises.
Use the tablet everywhere. If your Art Pen has a button, set it to double-click. Set Expose so that the bottom right corner is Desktop, then a kick of your elbow shows you the Desktop. Put Expose all windows on the bottom left, you will be very fast in the interface. Another tip is to make AppleScript droplets so you can drop things on them to process a batch in one very fast step.
I haven't used anything but Wacom tablets and a keyboard since 1999 and I am significantly faster at everything than a mouse user and no tendinitis. However you may get calluses where the Pen touches.
A 9x12 is the same width as a keyboard, makes the UI into a real place you can touch. The mouse or trackball is rolling an egg around with a spoon.
The fist mouse I ever bought was a logitech trackman(the thumb one) way back. The style has changed, but its still my mouse of choice and I am constantly fustrated that it doesn't get more loving form stores, or updates from Logitech. It is actually a really great gaming mouse and the current models can be tweaked all to hell for sensitivity and speed/acceleration. I have also found it excellent for any web design work and CAD I have done.
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
is the Kensington Orbit Optical trackball. The ball is about an inch and three quarters in diameter (larger than the typical Logitech offering) and, more importantly, about 3/4 of the surface area is exposed for tracking/rolling, which provides very smooth and consistent pointer movement without having to arch your fingers over the top of the roller or wag your finger back and forth constantly. Price point (US$ 30 or so) is also very attractive. My only complaint is that it's two-button and you need to chord to get middle-button functionality, but that's a pretty minor quibble.
Highly recommended, if you'd like to try out a good quality trackball without spending a hundred dollars.
(btw, I'm not affiliated with Kensington in any way, other than a long-time product user.)
Logitech's "cordless optical trackman" trackball is the only one I have found which allows the user to avoid reverse flexing the wrist at all times. The buttons are thumb-operated and on the side, scroll bar to the left of the ball.
It takes about a day to get used to, but the fact that you can rest the full weight of your hand and fingers on it without causing anything accidental on-screen makes it worth the learning curve. It's perfect for most tasks, but not great for detail work. I usually get around this by using two input devices.
You may also wish to purchase a dumbbell to use every so often throughout the day for wrist curls. This balances some of the stress from constant reverse flexing of the wrist and apparently reduces some of the swelling of associated tissues by stimulating their counterparts on the other side of the wrist. I find it gives temporary pain relief.
The prevalence of repetitive stress injuries in middle age folks makes me wonder what will become of the kids born in the 1980s and later. They all grew up using input devices constantly from an early age (school, electronic games, cell phone texting, etc.). Are we raising a nation of future cripples?
http://www.monstergecko.com/
:-)
I bought one of these to help with my RSS and it has made a big difference. Aside from the more-natural vertical grip, I can move the pistol mouse around all sorts of ways if my hand get tired--resting on top of the "barrel," holding it by the base, etc. It has left, right and center buttons and a scroll wheel.
It also gets a lot of comments by people passing by my office
I really like it.
Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
I still have one at home. Go it in 1990 or so. And it is still working fine!
h tml
http://www.chproducts.com/oem/trackballs_desktop.
This is the one. A bit pricier than a mouse, but the best on the market, as far as I am concerned.
I guess it depends on the type of game. For FPS style games trackballs absolutely suck. If you play only single player it may not be an issue, but for online gaming a trackball is barely a step up from using only a keyboard.
At my graphic design job, I use the standard Dell optical mouse that came with my workstation. For my laptop, I use a Logitech TrackMan Wheel, as I don't need a proper mousing surface. I find them both equally easy to use -- just not for the same tasks.
For design work, the trackball is too imprecise -- I need to get pixel-perfect accuracy, and it's a lot easier to do with a mouse, IMHO. But for web browsing, yes, the trackball is a lot more comfortable.
A finger-oriented trackball, like the Kensington, might be easier than a thumb-oriented trackball. A co-worker swears by his Logitech Marble Mouse, but I haven't bothered learning it. He's the only one in group of 15 graphic designers who uses a trackball of any kind.
The serious design choice, though, is neither a mouse nor a trackball, but a Wacom tablet, which a few of us do use. It's precise, easy to use, and it's pressure-sensitive. The trackball just doesn't come close there.My major problem with trackballs is that it's difficult to move the ball and click the buttons at the same time. A "thumb" trackball solves that issue, mostly, but thumb trackballs are so inaccurate and hard to use that they aren't really an option.
With the "big ball", you get accuracy, but you can't really hit the buttons while moving the ball. At least, not without contorting/stretching your hand into uncomfortable positions.
For some people, especially people with wrist/hand/arm problems, I suppose all those problems are forgiveable. But a mouse is a better pointing device. It just is. In my experience, the people that like trackballs tend to be people that just can't handle the mouse, for whatever reason. Everyone knows someone like that. Generally it's older people. The way a mouse works is just something they can't wrap their brains around.
(2) You never have to 'find' your mouse as the trackball is always in the same position
(3) Why wave your arm around just to move a pointer?
Mice are for people who don't know any better.
Anyway, if I'm twiddling with somebody else's computer I have to turn the mouse round 180 degrees - To me it's natural to move the mouse left to get the pointer to go right, and similarly with fore/aft for down/up.
I prefer the "smoothness" of a mouse. With a track ball, it can take several "thumb flicks" to go across the screen...a mouse just seems more natural and smooth, but that's what I've used most of my life.
Remaindered at Radio Shack! My first one cost $50 (also Radio Shack).
Happy Hacking Keyboard Lite 2
$60~
Kensington Expert Mouse
$100~
From an ergonomic standpoint I really don't have to move my hands that much to manipulate my environment. I've felt a great improvement in my overall speed and comfort.
-- The unsig...
Logetic had a good larger sized one I had for many years tell I well wore the darn thing out. They no longer make that one.
Microsoft also use to make a good sized trackball that I am currently using but again it is no longer made.
there have never been a big selection of trackballs, and every time I have to buy a new one the models I liked are gone and its even harder to find a good one. I have been using trackballs since about 2000 and as a heavy gamer its night and day between a mouse and trackball, especially for a sniper.
Whatever puts the crosshairs on your face...
.
got so fed up with optical mice (decent ones too, not just cheapos) skipping on my totally generic ikea desk i plugged in a brand new old-stock totally generic dell mouse-with-ball and WOW! no skipping, noticeably perky responsiveness, and so cheap that when one gets gummed up and doesn't fix from a quick cleaning (after like a year) i can crack open a fresh one for 3 bucks - no more taping a sheet of non-shiny paper to the desk for the optical mouse
wireless mice are even worse, with the annoying "battery low" popups and skips from the weak signal - good riddance
yes, tried all the big and small trackballs, which are fine for normal stuff but excruciating (for me) in pixel-fine graphics (illustrator, photoshop, etc.)
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I used to have both. A trackball at home and a mouse at work. i was perfectly happy with either one, but the theory I went with was that by using different devices I might avoid repetitive motion injury.
I've used a smaller tablet for about 7 years now. Can't remember which one I had at first, but it's what got me hooked - now I've got a Wacom Intuos 2 6x8 I've had for about 5 years.
I spend most of the day surfing, writing, and doing web dev. I switch between Textpad, browsers, FTP, and Photoshop throughout the day without switching my input device. The tablets just take some time to get used to.
Starcraft works great with it, but for all other games I pull down my Logitech wireless Mouseman, which has been fine. If I need a backup mouse, the Wacom came with a mouse that only works on the tablet. There have only been a few rough days over those years where I had a little hand crampage.
If you're a designer you'll want more precision, so go for something larger than the 6x8 tablet.
I can't imagine doing all my work, let alone Photoshop, with a mouse anymore. Well, sometimes I have to put up with it if I go on-site to a client's office. But that's life.
By Trackpad I assume you mean Touchpad.
I used to use one that was built into the keyboard (Cirus, IIRC; look for smoothcat). The main problem was that after ~1 year it went DOA. First the left click button would die (which means no dragging).
I went through 3 when the company was paying for them
My LogiTech trackball is still going strong.
I luuuuuuuuv my Kensington Expert Mouse. But I can't get it to be fully functional in Linux.
/dev/input or via xev.
Does anyone know the super-secret voodoo-fu incantation in xorg.conf to get all of the buttons (four around the ball, scroll wheel, and six more across the top) working? I can't find the top six buttons anywhere in
There don't seem to be enough of these trackballs in use for anyone to have bothered hosting a page on configuration, or at least I haven't been able to Google one up.
Hey, I have been using the Logitech Trackman Marble thumb controlled trackball for around 10 years now. Once you get used to it, which takes a few weeks to get up to speed, you have WAY higher precision and much faster movement than with either a mouse or a non-thumb controlled trackball. Better for surfing the net, and much better for games. With a mouse you have to lift the mouse very frequently while gaming, while using non-thumb controlled trackballs are much less exact when moving at high speeds.
Firstly, if you are going to go with a wireless pointing device, my vote is for trackballs. Others may prefer a track-pad but really a wireless mouse is rather pointless IMHO as you still need a surface of some sort to operate it. Trackballs/pads operate in your lap, on a chair.
One of my favorites is the logitech trackman wheel. Their classic snail like design. It's not exactly great for games, fact actions are not registered on this series, but for everyday work it's fab.
Microsoft had a semi-decent snail design like logitech but not cordless and it tended to burn out.
The Logitech Cordless Trackman FX Optical is another which seems to hold it's value in used circles. no wheel but a large ball operated by the index/middle fingers and buttons by the thumb.
For games, I just switch back to an old intelimouse.
Others have already spoke about the kennington version, traditional center ball with extra buttons.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Logitech Marble Mouse is great. Ambidextrous, compact, smooth, optical.
I had the large 3" ball from Kensington with 4 buttons. I used it for a year, but kept on getting wrist tendonitis, even after trying many different positions and or supports. My wrist and fingers went back to normal after switchiiiing back to a mouse.
I've been using a mouse for computer work, with a fair amount of gaming for 13 years now with no problems.
I suspect that there will be a subset of the population that does better with trackball devices, but the market has shown which device people prefer - the mouse.
..........FULL STOP.
IMHO, the best Trackball known to man. You use your index finger instead of your thumb and the mouse shape is very ergonomically friendly. Your thumb controls the traditional left, right, and scroll wheel/middle buttons and there are two other buttons that can also be used. My only gripe is that extended scrolling is uncomfortable.
Unfortunately, Microsoft discontinued the mouse. Last I checked people were selling them on eBay at huge markups over the original price (i.e. $150 instead of $50). I've got a bunch of them at home and am hoping that they will last me until a better product is developed.
Evolution: love it or leave it
I've never understood why people want to communicate with a computer by rubbing a small box around on the table. Why should I use this stupid thing to make the picture of a tiny finger press the picture of a tiny button, when I have ten real fingers and a keyboard with over 100 real buttons on it. Anyway when I'm forced to use a GUI I usually do use a trackball (Logitech Trackman Vista) but only because this idiotic method of input isn't worth the desk space that a mouse pad wastes.
OK I did see one use of mice that I liked, I knew a guy who felt that double-clicking was too picky so after selecting something, he'd pick the mouse up off the table and use it to press the keypad ENTER key. That's more like it!
If you use a mouse properly, it should require only small movements of the forearm. Positioned properly, your wrist should be in a neutral position. Moreover, a good mouse requires only slight finger pressure to press the buttons. A trackball, on the other hand, requires fast movement of one's thumb, which will quickly tire one's thumb (from my experience). One's thumb simply isn't designed to move in all 4 directions with equal ease. Rolling the trackball to the left is highly awkward, from my experience. More to the point, let's play HL2 Deathmatch 1 on 1! Maybe you will then realize why every pro gamer in the history of, err, pro gaming, has used a mouse! PWNT!
Once, when I first had wrist pain, I bought a giant Crayola trackball. It was 5-6" in diameter. Overall, it was very comfortable to use, but because it was designed for children, the buttons were on the top of the trackball instead of the bottom. Also, it required a serial port.
I ended up hooking it up to my Fraternity's jukebox computer. The drunks loved it.
No, I will not work for your startup
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
The subject says it all: trackballs are for losers.
Definitely trackball. I use one, and I'm in graphic design. With that said though, I think mouse-level precision should be enough for any graphic designer. Thousands of graphic designers use mice every day. The best things about a trackball are, it's usable with your laptop too, so you can use the same pointing device when you're on the road, and you can use it on your lap when your cat is stretched out across your mousepad. Or you can place it on your chair's armrest and use it there. Anyway, you *never* have to move it around, which still gets me as the most amazing improvement over a mouse, ever. :)
*Casually forgetting to mention the several-month training period before I regained my mouse-level dexterity*
I love my Logitech Trackman Wheel (wish they had a bluetooth version)
The main thing they should make a bigger deal about is cleaning. They give you know information on this topic. Which has lead to a lot of people thinking that the trackball was bad, when it just needed to be cleaned.
On the Trackman the bottom has a medium sized hole in the bottom. Take the BLUNT end of a pen or pencil and push the trackball out. Now you can clean the dirt off the 3 sensor balls.
Also, after about 2-3 years the left mouse button started to go. But that is about parr for mouse too.
http://www.hi-ho.ne.jp/vine/annex/x03-09209/index. htm
The shape provides a comfortable rest for your hand. The ball is neither too big nor to small and rests under the fingers. Sorry, thumb-ball apologists, the thumb is just not as dextrous as the fingers. I don't care if it's 'good enough', the fingers are better. The thumb here is used for pressing buttons - the left and right button can be pressed seperately or together with the tiniest movement of the thumb. The buttons have a large surface area and press easily. The wheel is on the left hand side, so it doesn't have to compete for attention with the ball or buttons.
The only reason I'm not still using this device is that it isn't optical, and the two I own have lost precision due to wear on the rollers over the years. I've tried several of the newer trackballs. The current MS trackball has a wheel between the buttons on the side, and the ball is unecessarily big and heavy. Putting the wheel between the buttons makes sense on a mouse where you can have a finger on each button and one on the wheel if necessary, but three controls is a little much for the beleagered thumb.
The logitech I've been using recently ( http://thetechzone.com/db_images/id228_images/pic1 .gif ) is the best I've found so far. The shape is okay, the ball is about right, and the location of the wheel is not ideal but tolerable. Unfortunately the latest version of the driver software doesn't allow the right/left buttons to be mapped to the side of the mouse. I'd use the earlier drivers, but the new drivers also support my keyboard. I also found that the buttons on the side required just enough pressure to click that they'd jog the position of the ball slightly when clicked, which is problematic for certain procedures. The locking ring that held the ball in place on the intellimouse was also a little more comfortable to use than the sharp edge of this one's cradle. Finally, it's wireless, which means changing batteries. I think the arguments for making mice wireless are much stronger than the those for trackballs. A USB dock would have been a nice compromise, but honestly I'd be happy to get a trackball with the buttons in the 'right' place at this point.
I use a Kensington Expert 5.0 at home and another at work. I found that using a mouse, while the control could be as good, left me with unilateral bursitis, which is not good.
My father, who had the same problem, had started down that path with an Expert 3.0, which has only two buttons. Again, a good design, but after the buttons died the second time, he tried an early Kensington Orbit. That thing was horrible -- the ball is fine, but the buttons are down around the sides where you keep hitting them by accident. He gave up on that after a few years; I found it in the useless junk drawer with the dead Expert. I see that they have moved the buttons on the new Orbit to be out at the sides again, which looks like it will work a lot better.
One of my clients, who is quadriplegic, uses the Expert 5.0 with a mouth stick. I'm about to buy another Expert for his wife, who was using an early Logitech Marble until the rug-rat managed to break the wire.
My only complaint about the Kensington is that they are slow to get a driver out for the 64-bit operating systems. Connected to the 64-bit XP box, the Expert acts like a slow mouse. They also don't seem to have their drivers available for Linux, though it seems that Linux trackball support doesn't really require a custom driver; the adjustment range is wide enough that the trackballs can be accommodated quite neatly.
I can't stand trackballs. I find they are much less accurate than mice. I cringe when I see trackball users spin their trackball to get to the other side of the screen and the spend three or four movements to fine tune their exact mouse position. Trackballs drive me nuts.
I miss my old Logitech iFeel mouse - it was a mouse with a rumble pack! It was a precise little servo inside though, so it could do motions as subtle as a tick to make it feel as though your mouse cursor had jumped onto an icon on your desktop, which was handy as I got used to higher resolutions on a big-ass monitor. It had plenty of game support back in the day too, so it was fun to use with Tribes 2, Serious Sam 2, Black & White, Jedi Knight 2, and others.
I have been using a trackball since 93' never going back...
Using a right-handed trackball is like using right-handed scissors - awkward as all hell.
I bought a keyboard with a built-in trackball. It was nice for 15 minutes - then I gave it away because its useless!
Instead, I have 2 mice plugged into the computer - one on each side of the keyboard. I grab whichever one is convenient (dual monitors, etc). I'm thinking that for my triple-monitor setup at home I should configure X so that each monitor has a captive mouse - having to go all the way from the left side to the right side when you've got an effective horizontal resolution of 4,000 pixels is a bit much. Even with "googley eyes" it gets hard to find the mouse.
Kevin Smith on Prince
Agreed about Logitech's thumb-driven trackballs; they drive me crazy. They make my thumb hurt, and they're impossible to efficiently and accurately position.
I never could convince myself to spring the near $100 for the huge Kensington trackball, but what I use and love is the Logitech Marble Mouse. The trackball falls comfortably under the index and middle fingers, and is easy to move around. Optical--admittedly that's just about universal these days save for bottom-of-the-barrel mice. About $20 at your favorite big box store. Only drawback is that the older ones only have two buttons, and the added buttons on the new ones are kind of tiny.
The only real trackball, IMO, is the Logitech Trackman Wheel.
You use your thumb to move the cursor, and your entire hand and arm can remain mostly motionless. Other versions (both from Logitch and other companies) require you to move your hand around the trackball, and have oddly located buttons: this will induce carpal tunnel just as badly as a mouse.
The only thing which annoys me is how Logitech has not released any kind of update (more buttons, etc) in years for the Trackman. The biggest updates have been a wheel to replace the MMB, and a version which uses wireless (which isn't too big a deal, but it's nice for laptops).
I also have been a trackball user since the old beige ones. The current black expert mouse rocks!
The scroll ring is great and there is no more cleaning rollers.
No I am not in graphic arts but I do some of it once in a while.
Side benefit: At work folks are afraid of it so they stay clear of my machine.
The only problem I know of is that it claims Vista certified but no vista drivers!!!
There are built in generic drivers but they don't let you use buttons 3 and 4.
You can have your trackball but not all of it.
Kensington has no plans on Vista drivers last time I called.
If you are a touch typist the trackpoint wins, you don't have to move your arms at all and avoid all of that repetitive motion. With the IBM trackpoint keyboards you can still connect a mouse or trackball if you need to draw or do some movements that the trackpoint isn't well suited for. The track point is great for navigating in text, selecting e-mails, etc.
I've introduced a number of people to Track Point keyboards who were experiencing chronic pain. They haven't gone back to using a mouse.
Check out the IBM Ultranav keyboards, they include a touchpad and a trackpoint.
We need track point advocacy group to get IBM allow companies to license the trackpoint for free.
Kensington Expert mouse.
Why?
- usable with both hands
- four buttons
- scroll ring
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
I highly recommend the IBM/Lenovo 31P8950 or the traveling version 31P9490. These USB keyboards are sturdy but lightweight and slimline, reasonably priced, include both a TrackPoint and an UltraNAV (which I disable), and they feel exactly like the renowned IBM ThinkPad keyboard.
I have used almost every type of trackball and mouse out there and the Trackman FX is my fav. Gaming or work, it's the best for me. I use 1 at the office, 1 on my gaming rig, and 1 on my main pc. I have 4 trackmans in storage I got off eBay. I wish Logitech or somebody would make these again. They are well constructed and tough, but they are hard to fix, I have 2 that died but I keep them around for spare parts. I hate thumb balls with a passion.
I wrote the code for drag locking years ago as part of the Mouse driver when it was part of XFree86, (now Xorg.org). Drag locking allows some of the extra mouse buttons that are part of late model mice and trackballs, to function as drag locks for the more commonly used buttons 1 and 3.
Drag locking allows a low dexterity person to do a drag, without having to move the mouse cursor and hold down a button at the same time. Using drag locking, a person with a stump, rather than a hand could successfully do drags.
Drag locking is not supported by the auto installation programs that come with most distros.
To invoke drag locking the file /etc/X11/xorg.conf, (used to be /etc/X11/XF86Config) must be edited by hand.
The 'Option "DragLockButtons"' line says that button 8 is a "drag lock" for button 1 and button 9 is a "drag lock" for button 3. I am not a low dexterity person, but I prefer to use drag locking with a trackball.Thanks for the tip. Maybe I'll try a newer one.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
I use a computer all day, although not in Computer graphics. It is a real wrist saver, quite precise, and the momentum from a good spin combined with a fairly high acceleration rate allows me to get anywhere on the screen quickly and precisely, and I run at high res.
The ball is a medium weight, unlike the kensington models I have seen, which have a heavier ball. I would think that a heavy ball might lead to fatigue, and that a ball which is too light to coast a little would not be as responsive, but of course, that is a matter of personal taste.
I used to use a Trackman Marble and loved it. But since I can switch between mouse & trackball w/o even thinking, I have since switched to optical mice because they require no cleaning. I'd have to pop the ball out of my Trackman every once in a while & clean the skudge off the points that the ball rested on. I had one that actually didn't sit just right *until* it got a little dirty. Until then, it rubbed on one side of the retaining ring (I eventually used an emory to sand it down).
ON DELETE CASCADE
For design work, I actually prefer a regular optical mouse. Reason being that it's easier to keep still. My experience with tablets is hit-or-miss, but I hope I have the money someday to spend on a good one. For gaming, THIS (p) should be all anyone needs.
Do not taunt happy fun ball...
Trackballs and mice are two different beasts. Someone who wants to use one will misuse the other, in my experience. The mouse users will move their entire arm to move a trackball and the trackball users will complain about how they have to move their entire arm around the desk in order to get anything done with a mouse.
I'm on my third and forth Kensington trackballs. My first was Mac specific, ADB Expert Mouse. The second was 9 pin serial, PC specific Turbo Mouse. Now I've got a Turbo Mouse Pro at work (USB, scroll wheel above the wheel, 4+6 buttons) in RHEL, which is great, except it's still roller controlled. At home, I'm blessed with their optically controlled Expert Mouse (USB / MacOSX), which has a scroll wheel surrounding the ball and 4 buttons on the periphery. Any replacement will be that exact model, if possible. Before finding Kensington, I found a variety of trackballs that were better than mice, but typically had inertia-less balls or too much friction on the bearing.
I got near-deadly accuracy on Quake Team Arena with my trackball (in 2001?), and I use my trackball at work doing CAD work, which some people might call graphic design. The truth is, it's great for any general use, and I've gotten very good at fine pointing too; but I cannot convert any mouse user to my preference. They just don't see the advantages.
I used a Kensington Orbit for many years, till it got old and grimy. Then I replaced it with a Logitech Marble Mouse, which I love, but it only has two buttons (you can mimic a third button by pressing two smaller buttons simultaneous, but ugh). That makes it a poor match for 3D packages like Maya and Blender. Logitech makes a three button trackball--the Trackman--but it's controlled with the thumb, not the forefinger, which makes it klunky to use.
I'd love to know if there's a three-button equivalent of the Orbit or Marble Mouse. Or has anyone used a Marble Mouse with Blender or Maya and been fine? Does a specific button configuration help?
At work where I occasionally do some minor CAD work, but mostly typing, I find my Logitech Marble Mouse USB track ball to be excellent. I find the lack of a mouse cord pulling your pointer around when doing CAD drawings essential. An added bonus of using this type of mouse at work is that when your "coworkers" want to "show" you something, they automatically begin to use the track ball as a traditional mouse but quickly find out that there is something wrong, and they can't cope with it.
At home, where I do some gaming, but mostly clicking around sites and music editing, I find my wireless mouse to be excellent. Again the lack of a cord is perhaps the best feature of a wireless mouse. Also, since the wireless mouse is heavier than a traditional corded mouse, you burn more calories...
~ In Trust, We Trust ~
The Orbit is about $30 (U.S.). I've been using Orbits for several years now. I had Carpal Tunnel Surgery, and I find using the Orbit to be MUCH more comfortable than a mouse.
But wireless is the best. If you can get a model with decent encryption, or don't need to care about that.
With a wireless pointing device, you can switch hands frequently, further reducing chance of repetative stress injury, without having to worry about keeping the cords untangled. With a wireless keyboard, you can put it in your lap occasionally, ameliorating a poorly matched desk height. Plus you've got no chance of spilling soda all over your skittles by catching a cord when you move an input device.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
I used to have a Kensington trackball a long time ago, and thought it was pretty swell. The best thing, though, was the trackball was almost exactly the same size as a pool ball so you could swap one in there. :-)
I made one out of a 16 pound bowling ball. You need to buy a new one (and of course, don't have any finger holes at all drilled out). If you use an old one that has nicks and dings you'll have tracking problems. The whole thing sits in a ring with 24 quarter inch steel ball bearings and a laser pointer on the bottom. My wife always tells our friends that I only have one ball but it's the biggest in the state.
The best trackball I've seen so far (for right-handers) is the Microsoft Trackball Explorer. I own 5. They don't make them anymore, which is a crying shame - large optical finger-driven trackball, nice buttons, and a wheel. The Kensington Expert Mouse looks very nice - I think that'll be the one I try next. The Logitech Cordless TrackMan Optical also looks reasonable, but I don't have personal experience with it - and I'm dubious about the lack of cord and don't care for yet another battery sucking device. I've been a big trackball fan since the Atari arcade games. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about.
I personally stay away from thumb-operated trackballs, as they always strike me as difficult to drive precisely. Optical is a must.
Oh, and as a programmer, being able to have a device where I can click the button without inducing a mouse moved event has been very helpful surprisingly often.
> cat ~/.signature | grep -v bullshit
>
the logitech trackman FX is one of the better optical trackballs i have used. it is controlled with the thumb, but also the index finger - which allows for great precision.
Too bad they don't have a wireless version yet.
Can anyone recommend a precise mouse for graphic work ? I'm actually very surprised that the original poster says that he finds trackballs more precise than mice. I've tried one and I don't: you can't control the exact direction of the rotation. I currently have a 'good' optical MS mouse, but lately I've found it less and less precise. Old classic mice used to accumulate crud and require regular cleaning but I don't see anything getting dirty with an optical one. So, anyone has a recommendation ?!? Thanks.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
I have both a Logitech MX510 optical mouse ( http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Performance-Optical -Gaming-Mouse/dp/B0001YGIB0 ) as well as a Logitech Cordless Optical Trackman ( http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Cordless-Optical-Tr ackman-USB/dp/B00006B9CR/ref=sr_1_5/105-0528404-45 62867?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1185994358&sr=1-5 ) hooked up to my home PC. I use the mouse 10x more than the Trackball. It is really just a matter of personal preference. The Trackball makes my wrist more sore than the mouse. This is an atypical experience, though.
I prefer trackballs to mice because I prefer the keyboard to either.
I have my trackballs at home set to "fast" (=sensitive) settings so, when I'm forced to take a hand off the keyboard, I often can just "hit" the trackball in the general direction to send the cursor zooming near where I want it. It seems like I can target what I want more quickly than with a mouse and get my hands back on the keyboard where god intended them to be.
The trackball also takes less precious desk space - I live in a small apartment - and it's always in exactly the same place so it's easier to grab without looking.
I have been using a trackball since my first Logitech one back in 1994. Once I tried it, I was hooked. I have been telling people about them for years, but they keep telling me I can't get the response time of a mouse. And no jerky hand movements means my keyboard doesn't get splashed with soda as I spin real quick to frag somebody. Glad to see people finally realizing the joys of a trackball.
I was raised on Logitec Trackman track balls and loved them until a few years ago. They started making them too small and they feel like they are made of the same plastic as the candy filled Howard the Duck bust that TOPPS used to make, so even though I avoid using MS software whenever I can I use a five button (4 normal buttons and a wheel) optical track ball with Microsoft's name on it. I also use a keyboard made by them because it seems that all the other good ergonomic keyboard designs have disappeared for some reason.
It really does bother me because in both cases I had been using keyboards and trackballs that I was happy with but the designs either weren't continued or were taken in a direction I didn't like.
I love trackballs, but I hate the thumb controlled ones, I am much more precise and comfortable with index finger controlled ones like Micrsoft's Explorer trackball. I have two, they are years old and both just broke...I don't know if they still make them, but I am going to have to get new ones, I HATE THIS DAMN MOUSE.
dB Masters
After using many bluetooth headsets, I'd have to agree with the grandparent, bluetooth wasn't meant for real-time communications. "What, hold on a sec.... Could you repeat that?"
Trackballs have gone the way of Beta. They're a niche market. People were just so confused by something different, they stick with their stupid mice.
I have a Kensington Expert Mouse Pro at work, and I love it. Unfortunately, unlike many other items, the price of them doesn't seem to come down much when they go on ebay, so I use a LogiTech Marble at home. It's alright, better than a mouse, but I dislike it compared to my Pro.
I've been a trackball lover for many years tho. They're better for your wrist, easier to use, take less space, and are more versatile. Unfortunately, so many people come in, look at it, and don't understand how it works. I had one person turn it upside down and try using it that way. The majority of mainstream computer users are still idiots, so unfortunately anything different confuses them.
That said, the one area they fall down in for me is drawing and graphics. A tablet or a regular mouse is a lot easier to use for things like drawing on a picture or writing on someones Grafitti wall.
But the answer to the article question is "It's different, and the sheep scare easily"
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
Yes, I use a trackball with my iBook. No, I'm not in graphic design.
I bought a Logitech Marble Mouse, because I am left handed and its symmetrical design suits both left and right hand use. I originally wanted one with a scroll wheel, but they only come in weird bent-to-fit-right-hand-use shapes, so the Marble Mouse it was. I'm very pleased with it.
The best thing with a trackball (apart from letting me right-click on my Mac[1]), in my opinion, is that it *does not require much desk space*. Just plonk it down and use it.
The low amount of trackball users is indeed puzzling - I attribute it to an unawareness of the device among users. At university I've seen many Joe Sixpacks carry around mice for use with their laptops (not that I really get the point), then they sit and try to operate the mouse on a tiny little desk crammed with books and coffee mugs. A trackball seems like a much better choice for that.
[1] - this is not a troll, I use a lot of cross-platform software and they make extensive use of the right click - if the right click was so damn important to me I would have gotten Windows instead of paying extra for *not* having it
Per an article on WebMD
"The thumb is not a very dexterous part of the hand," Hedge tells WebMD. "It is really designed as a stabilizer for pinch gripping with a finger. That is why you only have two of them, not eight. It is the fingers that have dexterity, not the thumb." The full-size keyboard was designed with this in mind. One uses one's dexterous fingers for lightning strikes on the letter keys. One reserves one's relatively clumsy thumbs for the humble task of striking the spacebar.It's only in more recent times that the thumb has been asked to become more dexterous--With phone-texting, more and smaller buttons on game controllers, and so forth. Since thumbs were not made for precision, people blamed the trackball for bad ergonomics and faulty controls. Mice allowed for "pixel perfect" placement and gained dominance.
I know you're not going to believe this, but way back in the 80s and 90s, there used to be these little rubber mats that you could, get this, pay for, to put your mouse on. Is that crazy or what? "Mouse Pads" they called them, and you used to be able to get them with pretty much anything you wanted on them, it was a hoot I tell ya. The crazy stuff we did when we were kids.
Check out my sysadmin blog!
If you hurt your hand using your mouse, you are doing it wrong. If you want to use a mouse properly, I suggest you start by turning your sensitivity and acceleration up a tiny bit each day until it is maxed out. More sensitivity means you move the mouse less in order to get the arrow to cover more screen real-estate. Less moving, less hurting.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
After i started to use a trackball, all problems with my arm disappeared.
I used my Logitech Marble FX until it started to wear out, used the MX518 for a while and now i have switched (back) to the newer Cordless TrackMan.
I find the old FX to give much better finger and hand support. The ball on the cordless is smaller and further out so only my fingertips can be used and be able to rest, that at a raised angle. I also miss using my thumb and most of my finger area for precise movement.
Using the scroll wheel on the cordless instead of depressing the red "dedicated" scroll button on the FX is also giving me more strain. (X11/Xorg really does simulate a real scroll axis, while on windows this is poorly done)
If they only could take the additional buttons from the cordless, put them on the FX and cram in the +- sensitivity buttons from the MX518. Also including both wheel and (hardware driven) scroll shift button. But i guess you would need an extra dimension to fit in all that...
I have used a lot of input devices in the last decade. Most of them were mice, but I also have used trackballs, touchpads, trackpoints, touchscreens and drawing tablets of varying sizes. After thorough testing, I came to the conclusion that most people using a trackball think it's more precise because they can move their thumb with higher accuracy than they can move their whole hand. In fact they were true. Until I tried switched the mouse acceleration off altogether. Suddenly, the mouse movement became linear and predictable, even with fast movements. The mouse speed slider suddenly made a whole lot more sense, since it now allowed for a linear increase in precision, just by making the mouse slower. In effect I have to move hand farther on the table, but I don't care, as I have a big enough surface for my mouse.
At this point, muscle memory and basic hand-eye coordination kick back in. You can hit even small buttons on the other side of the screen without much guessing where the pointer's going to be after your wrist flick. No need to reposition the cursor after a fast movement, because you overshot the target. Using the mouse has become even more precise than using a pen tablet, although the tablet offers more natural movements for graphics work and other tasks.
I'd even guess that using a trackball would benefit from deactivating mouse acceleration, but the mouse is my ultimate input weapon. When I see other people using my computer, they initially feel weird about my mouse but catch on pretty quickly. I even realized that they're working faster than on their own computers.
Unfortunately, not every mouse driver supports using a linear acceleration curve. Logitech's drivers allow to completely deactivate it. Ironically, Windows' mouse-control-panel checkbox "Increase pointer precision" actually does the opposite for me, while activated. The most awful mouse acceleration curve for me is the default one in Mac OS X, because you can't simply change it - you have to hack into some resources or use additional programs to set a linear curve.
After all, it's just a matter of personal preference. I'm not going to rant about people who use something different than a mouse. All I want to say is "try it for yourself".
I have a Logitech trackball, and a three button mouse, and an Apple whatever-they-call-that-fancy-mouse-with-no-button s, still in shrinkwrap (it was free). All gather dust because I use laptops exclusively now. I use laptops because they're portable. They're less portable if they've got to deal with an external mouse, so I use the trackpad.
"Nothing was broken, and it's been fixed." -- Jon Carroll
Long, long ago I tried a trackball at my friend's house, and decided I absolutely must have one. That was a good couple of years, til I switched back to a mouse permanently, and you better believe I never looked back. After experiencing both sides of the fence, using a mouse is far more intuitive and precise for many activities on a PC.
When I got my first laptop I got both a mouth and a trackball. After a few weeks I retired the trackball as it was bothered me too much. The only thing worse was the stick stuck in the keyboard. When I get a new Macbook Pro I may try again but I'd really love to get a Wacom tablet. If only I could afford the Cintiq.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I had to make this decision last month for my workstation. After using the Staples demo units for about five minutes each(palm-ball and thumb-ball), I decided a palm-contoured mouse would be best for comfort and the height of my tray. (Logitech MX400) Also I'm very deft at dragging and need to do it a lot at work (haw haw), and the use of click-lock or shifting my palm/thumb while holding a button is.. well.. gross.
Also bought the ultra-new Logitech mouse with the fly-wheel and thumb wheel, but I'm already lamenting the loss of middle-click. DRIVER UPDATE PLZ!
For my media station at home I'm actually thinking of a multi-button paddle (no, I won't call it a dial) to go along with my little tablet.
But yeah, Centipede and Breakout FTW.
Anyone who likes a clean workstation should use a trackball. Case in point: I work at a dual-headed box at the apex of two "counter-style" desks with a keyboard tray under it. In order to use a mouse, I have to move my hand and wrist under the desk. With a trackball, I don't even have to think about it.
Plus, for some reason, I feel like making small movements with my thumb to move a cursor makes more "sense" than moving my whole hand, but what do I know?
I use hand trackballs instead of thumb trackballs and find them much easier to use. I have a Trackball Explorer at work and a Cordless TrackMan Optical at home. I used to have the Microsoft one at both home and work but went wireless at home. The Logitech one is superior; while the Microsoft one is actually really nice, it requires a lot of maintenance (it gets insanely dirty and starts to skip and drag). The main issue for me is that the thumb trackballs have always required extremely precise movement and perfectly still hands, lots of dexterity, while largely ignoring the rest of the hand. The hand trackballs make much better, IMHO, use of the space.
I stopped using mechanical trackballs due to roller wear. But the logitech trackman opticals are fantastic. Especially when you have to do field work, you can use them in mid-air. The added advantage is that nobody can figure out how to use my computer!
I wouldn't want to use my pc a day without the Logitech trackman marble FX
- Trackball/dp/B00000JBUI
It's a real shame Logitech doesn't make it anymore. Its design was a revolution but it really takes little to get used to.
Amazon seems to have some used ones at a ridiculous price:
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-TrackMan-Marble-FX
I work at a nuclear lab in the US, and the control room uses Logitech Marble mice pretty much exclusively. I suppose its helpful what with the 4x4 array of flat screens worth of display to roll over :)
Now if I could only get those displays to game with...
I could not agree more about the MS Trackball Explorer. I've got three here, two worn out, and the third getting there. I switched to a trackball when MS released their original trackball, similar in design to the Trackball Explorer, but pre-optical, and the ball was a bit smaller. I liked that device quite a bit, and my only problem with it was that it was still a 'roller' device, and I wished they had made an optical version. Then a couple years later, Trackball Explorer! Yes! Thank you, thank you, thank you! An optical device, with a slightly larger ball, and much better ergonomics. The Trackball Explorer is, as far as I'm concerned, the absolute perfect pointing device.
Before switching to that first MS trackball I had tried a Logitech, I think it was called Trackman Marble. It was optical, but, was thumb-operated rather than finger-operated. Some people swore by them, so, what the heck. Man, did I hate that thing. Even after getting used to it, I couldn't get anything even resembling precision with it, at least not approaching satisfactory for me. The thumb just isn't as accurate for such tiny movements as fingers are. Gaming with it sucked. So, I took it back. I decided to try the MS one that was beside it on the shelf, even though it wasn't optical. Its design was different, finger-operated, so even though it wasn't optical I'd give it a try.
OH BABY! Took next to no time at all to get used to the finger-operated trackball. Man, could you ever be quick *and* accurate with it. Gaming was awesome! And no more sore wrists! A few weeks with that thing, and playing through the original Unreal game, and I was better with that trackball than I ever was with a mouse. Quake 2 games turned into railgun fests, and the cheating accusations started flying. That trackball was awesome.
Then, MS finally decided to release the work of art that is the Trackball Explorer. Finally, they released an optical one, wicked! And the ball was slightly bigger, but not too big. It was even more quick and accurate, thanks both to the slight size bump and the optical nature. And it felt much better in the hand than the older device. This thing is the best pointing device I have ever used. And I wish MS had never stopped making them, because I would buy them forever.
I am quite certain that the old Logitech Trackman Marble, a thumb-operated trackball, is responsible in large part for turning people off of trackballs. Back when they were new, I remember almost everybody I knew was trying them out. And the vast majority of them were returned. And a good portion of those people never tried another trackball again, after being soured by the thumb-operation. I absolutely cannot stand thumb-operated trackballs. And apparently neither can most people. Such a shame, because they would probably love the finger-operated ones! Since then I managed to convince quite a few people to give the Trackball Explorer a try, and every single one of them kept it and love it to this day. Just too bad more people weren't in on the secret. Finger-operated trackballs involve movement very similar to a mouse, so making the switch takes minimal time and effort, whereas there are slight physical differences involved with thumb-operated ones. What you gain is more precision, since your fingers are more precise than your arm. More speed, since your fingers don't have to move very far and are moving only the small mass of the ball, rather than your arm moving the whole device like a mouse. And from my experience, less fatigue and no more repetitive stress pain. My wrist was starting to bother me when using a mouse. Since switching to the trackball, that got better and hasn't bothered me since.
I sure wish more people had tried them, because MS might still be making them. They are without a doubt the best pointing devices ever. I wish I had enough to last a lifetime, but they do wear out after 4-5 years, and my last one is on its last legs. Guess I'll have to scour ebay and pay the outrageous prices on there. Yes, they are on there, and yes, they are expensive. If I can still find them, I'll pay, though. They are the best, period.
Personally I use an Itac Evolution trackball. I purchased it on Ebay something like 10 years ago and it's a wonderful trackball IMO. It's built like a tank with stainless steel shafts and bearings and has stood up perfectly to a lot of use by me over the years. They don't have a million programable buttons but that is fine with me. They don't even need any drivers. It just uses the standard ps2 mouse driver. The button assignment is handled in the hardware and can be left right or middle button and can be configured to click, click lock or double click. Really the only thing I wish it had was a scroll wheel or a button that could be held to use the trackball as a scroll wheel. It's not what I would call a cheap pointing device but it's well worth the money IMO. You can get more info and order directly from their website at http://www.mousetrak.com/ .
Additionally my experience with the support was great. I purchased my trackball on ebay and after I received it I experienced some strange issues with my computer at the time. I called tech support and the verified it was a compatibility issue my computer and offered me a replacement trackball that would not have the issue. I had no receipt etc but they still paid for shipping both ways and replaced my trackball with a new in box trackball with a full warranty. In fact they never even asked about proof of purchase etc they just replaced it.
One last interesting fact. The material specifically states that opening the trackball to clean it does not void the warranty.
He couldn't handle the mouse anymore.
I have bad arthritis and find the Kensington works well for me. I do a bit of graphics, but am not a pro.
I have the Expert Mouse Pro, the one with the six programable buttons along the top and four around the trackball.
photosMy Photostream
My uses are mainly audio/video creation/manipulation & general apps like word processing, email & browser use. I have used a trackball for years and would never go back ...I would also never surrender the desk space I've reclaimed by only needing the trackball's small footprint. ...Just one geezer's opinion. :)
That said, >80% of what I do is handled by keyboard shortcuts, but when the GUI must be dealt with, I find the trackball immeasurably more useful.
I too am a bit anxious at the dwindling popularity of the trackball. The time to stockpile may be fast approaching.
Thats been my favourite pointing device for more than 5 years. First I had a Cirque EasyCat, and when the left button got too sticky I picked up a Discontinued Fellowes Internet Touchpad, same design and form factor as one of the larger Cirque products, also long ago discontinued. Too bad.
Im happy with touchpads, and probably will use them as long as I can find new ones to replace the worn outs.
So my question is: With all the things Microsoft does wrong, how come when they finally getting something right they drop the product?
Because if they kept it they would have had to raise their quality in other products? Whee people have something with good quality they expect more of that quality from the company. So instead of giving people that expectation of quality they discontinued it.
FalconShould there be a Law?
My girl bought me a marble track ball about 7 years ago cause my wrists are going, I hated it at first and now I cant live without it. I do graphic design for a living and I have probably had 20 mice in my jobs during the life span of this one trackball. I love going home and using the track ball, its a nice change of pace. But I still prefer the mouse for my everyday job.
Five years later, im ALMOST as proficient in doing clipping paths with my left as my right. :P And no pain in any of my wrists whatsoever.
Logitech Cordless Trackman Wheel. Cordless not required, but on the 4 main PCs I use, I have either Microsoft Natural keyboard or Logitech Cordless Desktop Pro keyboards with the logitech Trackman Wheel mounted with velcro right at the bottome of the spacebar onto the "wrist-rest" area/attachment. The "natural" keyboard prevents me having to torque my elbows unnaturally inward and having the mouse located right about at my belly-button allows for what to me is a very relaxed position when not actively "mousing". I find that the trackball, if "tuned" properly allows you to "shoot" your cursor across the screen and repositions very easily. Would have to agree with the other comment that if you're doing graphics, it could be very difficult to "draw" smooth lines, but otherwise, this configuration has stopped virtually all neck/shoulder/arm/wrist pain that I've ever had at a workstation.
the market has shown which device people prefer - the mouse.
I don't really think people have decided they prefer a mouse to a trackball. I think the real reason most people use mice is because when they bought their computer it came with a mouse and not a trackball. I'd like to see a purchaser given the option of getting a mouse or a trackball with their computer.
Oh, I didn't say the above because I prefer trackballs. When I got my first laptop I got both a mouse and a trackball. After a few weeks I retired the trackball because I had problems using it. It's years later now and I'll be getting a new laptop, then I may try a trackball again.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I use the same trackball. I am a designer. I have been using Kensington for 10 years at least. I miss my wireless trackball...
Just two sites with alternatives.
s e.html
http://www.utoronto.ca/atrc/reference/tech/altmou
http://web.mit.edu/atic/www/tools/mice.html
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
I've used this wrist rest for about 8 years now, starting after I had some RSI pain. I've been pain free since then. http://www.comfortpoint.com/html/body_cp3.html
Every single Kensington mouse/trackball I've ever owned (admittedly, I haven't in a while, and don't plan to again) has had problems with its buttons (10 mouse clicks for the price of 1 / random dropouts while dragging.) They were nice about it and replaced several mice with no argument (none of the replacements lasted long either.)
The $90 trackball (I loved it too) lasted a week or two past its warranty date before dying. Be prepared! If the buttons start getting even slightly wonky, don't wait to get another.
In my field, of mixing, mastering, editing, etc sound with computer based work stations running ProTools or Logic, the Trackball is a pretty common site. They are space efficient, since you don't have to move them and are nice for manipulating the various on screen controls that try to emulate real-world knobs (turning a knob with a mouse isn't intuitive...with a track ball it isn't much better, but it is a little...)
Note that if you're interested in getting one, it only has the one wheel I've already mentioned on top. That thumb wheel does not spin, and is really 3 buttons: up, down, and pushed in. uberoptions exposes all of the configuration options. That will also allow you to map a scroll mode-switching button if you want one.
Large ball, only 2 buttons. The interface is a *rectangular* 9-pin, currently it has an adapter to a circular serial port on the end. I have used this on many machines since the initial SGI I bought it for. Only way I can avoid getting RSI. I am worried that they are going to stop putting the serial port on new machines, but the brand new one I have now still has it (and one for the keyboard, where I have an old Microsoft Natural keyboard with proper-sized cursor keys).
I use it on the left, and I have swapped the buttons around so the left one is the middle button (paste), the right one is the primary button, and hitting both is the third button (that pops up menus normally).
I also keep a regular usb mouse on the right so I can use the scroll wheel and also to test user interfaces using the mouse.
Unfortunaltly this worked great in my previous RedHat Linux machine, in that apparently there was a bug and xmodmap only altered the trackball and not the mouse, allowing me to swap the buttons around only on the trackball. Unfortunatley the bug appears to be "fixed" on the new Ubuntu system and xmodmap changes both the trackball and mouse. I did waste some time trying to change those "CorePointer" and "SendCoreEvents" and other keywords on xorg.conf, but could not get any different behavior except for making xmodmap not work for *either* of them.
Ah, so the same reason someone drives an SUV to their office.
For most SUVs on the road I totally agree. I doubt more than 10% of the SUVs on the road will ever be driven off a paved road. Yet when I grew up that's exactly why people got 4X4s, to go offroad. Heck I knew some that had 4X4s that were never driven on the road. At home they'd keep it on a trailer and tow it wherever. Once they got where they wanted to go offroad they'd unload it pretty much like a boat on a trailer. And the muddy water may be a few feet deep. We had some fun stumping around in the bogs.
I sometimes look as those driving Hummers and Rovers on the road and wonder if their ego is so fragile they need one to boost their selfesteem.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I have an '86 Model M, and the only other keyboard that holds a candle to it is the Cherry G80-3000.
It's not as beat-your-PHB-to-death-and-keep-on-trucking robust as the IBM, but the key switches are just as positive and consistent, if a little lighter on the touch. I have the Cherry at work, the IBM at home.
I bought my dear old Mom, a legal secretary, one of these to replace the revolting membrane keyboard provided as standard by her office. The arthritis in her index finger improved markedly in a few weeks.
I switched to a Kensington Expert Mouse last year for a similar problem. This input device works better for me than the traditional mouse. My wrist pain problem is so bad that I switched the trackball to my other hand and this has improved things a bit for me. I am not a graphics professional and I try to avoid the Mouse input device as much as possible. Guides like this table help very much.
I know, this won't apply to gamers, designers, etc.
d el/
But as a programmer, I find that the best mouse is (going towards) no mouse at all - especially when most of my work is done on a laptop. For text editing, I switched to the Vim input model. And in all programs I use, I work more and more towards using keyboard shortcuts instead of the mouse.
For a story that relates to mine, see: http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-mo
I think trackballs pre-date mice. They were in use on military graphics systems in the late 1960s. The first time I heard of a mouse, it was described to me as someone having taken a trackball, turned it upside down, and rubbing the ball on a pad.
1. Get Logitech Trackman Marble FX - the old, wired version with large ball (I have three - hands down the best input device ever created)
2. Get a couple of different, but comfortable mice (I have a wireless laser MS mouse and wired optical MS mouse)
3. Get a couple of different, but comfortable keyboards (I have MS Natural Ergonomic 4000 and Kinesis The Essential, in addition to MacBook Pro keyboard)
4. If you draw, buy a WACOM tablet (I have a 9x12" Intuos 3)
Switch between your mice and keyboards regularly. Remember, its _repetitive_ stress injury. If you use a different device, you get different kinds of stress in your wrist, and it doesn't build up and doesn't cause inflammation, so RSI goes away (if it's not a clinical case). Finally, don't work 16 hours a day. Get a life. Read a book. Take breaks during your work day. Play a musical instrument. Think about your lifestyle and whether or not it's sustainable long term. If not, make changes.
I had a monster sized serial trackball I got with my 286. I kept it a long, long time (up to Windows 2000) because I enjoyed using it so much. I decided to switch over to a Microsoft Trackball Explorer. I have two of them and over the six years I've been using them, I've only had to replace one for a short in the cable (my fault, I suppose).
I find it easier to use than thumb balls because it uses my pointer and middle finger for navigation of the ball itself. I find I have much greater control and dexterity with these fingers, which my wife will attest to (GIGGITY GIGGITY).
It also has a lifetime warranty, so I just had to call Microsoft and give them the Product ID and they cross shipped me a new one at no cost.
Anyways, if you're looking for something OTHER than a thumb ball, I suggest taking a look into the Microsoft Trackball Explorer.
I started to get wrist pain when the mouse manufactures started to release ergonomic mice. These new mice are higher then the old style from 5-10years ago.
I have been noticing more and more pain in my wrist during the past year and finally decided to try the Trackball route. I ordered the Logitech TrackMan about 6 months ago and never had any more wrist pain.
I can now navigate my computer faster then with a standard mouse, moving from one side of my wide screen to the other requires a quick spin on the ball. Unfortunately the trackman is not as precise as my Logitech Laser mouse but it is accurate enough for it's price. Sometimes I have problems selecting the exact pixel I want in Gimp but it will work.
I'm not a gamer but when I do play games I fall back on my Lasermouse.
I can now enjoy my computer addiction without wrist pain cause by over engineered mice.
Everyone who buys Wild Hunt will receive 16 specially prepared DLCs absolutely for free, regardless of platform.
I'm righthanded, but I'm using a Logitech Marble Mouse for roughly a year now, with good success. Before, my right hand used to get tired or develop cramps. Now I don't have that problem with my left hand, yet I'm almost as fast.
The advantage: the MM is symmetric, so you can change hands if you prefer (my GF uses it with her right hand).
It also has two normal buttons, and two extra buttons, which work like scroll up/down on Windows or the Mac. On my Linux machine, I mapped one button to mouse-3, and the other button to wheel, i.e., pressing the button turns the trackball ball into a scroll BALL. Take that Mighty Mouse, this is much better!
I have an old PS2 Logitech Trackman marble+ that I love,I am really used to controlling things with my thumb. I am dreading the day when it dies,the new models design is horrible. The one I own has three seperate areas for the two mouse buttons and the scroll wheel. All the new logitech stuff has the scroll wheel squished in between the two mouse buttons. On my current model I can comfortable have the first three fingers resting on the buttons and wheel, this is not possible on the new ones. Any one know of a similar design thumb controlled trackball?
I have used a few trackballs, but have come down firmly behind the Kensington Expert Mouse. Big trackball, 4 buttons and a Scroll Ring. It's the Scroll Ring that does it for me - there's just nothing better. I have one at home, and got my boss to buy me one for work (as a programmer). I initially switched from a mouse to a trackball because I got so sick and tired of always having to pick up the mouse and move it around the mouse pad. It would fall off the side or bump into the palm rest on my desk or something and I eventually just threw it away and got a trackball because it would be stationary on my desk. I started with the MS Trackball Explorer but later switched to the Kensington. I wouldn't go back to a mouse now, the trackball is just too comfortable. I don't know how people use the little thumb ones - maybe my thumb just isn't that dexterous.
"Belief means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzche, The Anti-Christ, 1889]
Laptop style touch pads could do anything a trackball can, then just don't for some reason.
I suppose it depends what one considers to be a trackball.
I know two people whom I regard highly who swear by the Logitech MarbleMouse. Personally, I'd just stick with my Wacom tablet.
I've considered switching to the TrackMan Optical from a Marble Mouse (I'd like a scroll wheel) but I'm not sure how they compare for me and $50 is a bit much to try it out. I wish there was a corded version as well, because I'm not fond of cordless mice/keyboards.
On a related note, I'm amazed by how many other Marble Mouse users there are here. I first bought a white two-button one probably about 6 years ago and a silver one 3 years ago and both are still working just fine. It's always amusing when people don't think I can play any FPS games with it and I usually end up winning. Anyone else want to petition Logitech for an updated version with a scroll wheel?
It's ironic that a post about trackballs is made today. My optical trackball is dying. I've had it for 7 years, the left click button is failling clicks :-(
:-)
I love my trackball, it's great except for real gaming (WoW, GuildWars, fps, etc).
Oh, and it's a Microsoft product
I've been using a trackball since the Amiga days due to off and on wrist problems. Currently I'm using a Microsoft Trackball Explorer, which I consider the most comfortable trackball ever made for the PC. Unfortunately it's discontinued and you can only get them on eBay and similar.
My work bought me a cordless Trackman from Logitech, but I don't like the way it fits in my large hand, and the ball is a bit smaller then the Trackman.
Personally, I find the precision and control of a trackball somewhat lacking when it comes to Photoshop, so I always use my drawing pad for detail work. However, it works great for gaming and I can game a lot longer than I can with a mouse, so it's certainly a good option.
I used to suffer from RSI, and the most comfortable mouse I have ever used (and still use) is a Samsung optical wheel mouse (picture).
The reason it's so comfortable is that your hand rests at an angle when using it. Most "ergonomic" mice try to mould into your hand so that it sits flat over the mouse, but this not only forces your wrist to rotate unnaturally (hang your arms down and your thumb faces forward, which translates to up on a desk) but it bends your hand back at the wrist, which causes RSI. The Samsung mouse, being a tad smaller, has your hand with the side down on the desk, wrist straight.
I suppose it's a bit like a vertical mouse, only it costs a fiver and is damn good for gaming too.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
In the mid- to late 70s, the typical terminal was something like a IBM 3270, keyboard the size of a C64. At that time, the PETRA particle accelerator at DESY in Hamburg, Germany needed a new control room. The computers used were Norsk Data Nord-10s and 100s, with hand-built graphics hardware (and hand-built process control hardware called SEDAC). Every operator had access to one keyboard, one touch panel (about 9", b/w, with 16 zones), two graphics monitors (about 19", 512x256 pixels in 8 colours - but multiple layers), on b/w monitor and two (count them) trackballs to the right and left of the keyboard, embedded in the table. They had one button each and were the size of a big pool ball. Later, some rows of programmable buttons were added. If there is anything nicer than having two serious trackballs as input devices, I haven't seen it yet...
Pluses: Easy to zip from one end or corner of the screen to the other, very responsive.
Minuses: Fine movements are difficult to impossible to control. Can't position to a pixel or draw a smooth circle with this thing.
I like it for gaming - the targets in games are easy to point at and you can position the cursor much quicker than you could with a mouse. Driving with one hand on the keyboard and one on the trackball is easy; much better than a mouse. I've been accused of being a bot a few times...
But I wouldn't use a trackball for precision drawing; for AutoCAD I'd plug in a mouse.
... and probably not much more now.
Cheap as chips and very good.
My worst RSI pain came from a trackball. I'm seeing a lot of posts here presenting trackballs as great and mice as bad. I don't think mice are good fro RSIs, but I know from experience that trackballs CAN be even worse. Buy whatever, but be ready to trash it -- don't assume it's a cure all.
Absolutely the best controller for games like Descent. Too bad it didn't take off more.
What d'ya mean mouse or trackball? I flip my mouse over and use that ball thingy...
Actually, the Logitech trackball devices are excellent. I love how Micro$oft tried to copy them. (I still buy Logitech, though!)
I have been using one for years as well, and have worn one out, and have 2 left, one on my laptop and one on my Tower, and damn wouldn't I love to have a few more. I used to use the big Kensington ones, but the Trackball explorer is so much better. More precise, less wrist discomfort (for me at least) and I love the scroll wheel placement.
Damn if I could I would buy a case of these things, so i would never be without, but they are pushing $200 on ebay now.
I've been using a logitech trackball in one incarnation or another going on over 10 years. Love'em way more than drag mice.
I've been using a Logitech Trackball for many years now. Even when I got a new "optical" mouse and used it for a bit I went back to the old 3" marble, especially when I started Gaming. Anyway the only thing I miss is a scroll wheel. If I had a scroll wheel on my trackball, life would be ... well almost perfect :-P
These folks make some of the finest trackballs available.
http://www.mousetrak.com/
I started using trackballs in the early 1990's, because my wrist couldn't take a mouse anymore. I've used them religiously ever since. I am a software engineer, and often spend 10+ hours a day at the computer.
The lack of good modern trackballs annoys me greatly. The new ones are cheap, have replaced a very useful button with a less-useful track wheel, and are either "ambidextrous" (i.e., equally bad for both hands), or designed for right handed people. While I am right handed, I would prefer using the trackball with my left. I also prefer thumbballs to fingerballs, though mostly because of familiarity.
Logitech used to make nice 3-button left-thumb trackballs (the old "Marbles"), but don't anymore. I would guess nobody was buying them. Most computers come with a cheap-ass 2-button scroll-wheel mouse, and most software assumes right-handed use (what's a "right click" on a left-handed mouse?). Since most people seem never to realize that not using a mouse is even a possibility, the market for "those odd little trackball things" has all but failed.
I finally had to give up on my Marble after nine years, because the buttons stopped working. I now use a Microsoft Trackball Optical (also discontinued, IIRC), which would be fine if the ball rolled evenly.
I use the track ball that's built into my infrared keyboard when using my bedroom computer. Much easier to navigate in bed using a track ball. Although the biggest problem I find is that the whole operation is two handed with my particular model, having the trackball on one side of the keyboard and the mouse buttons on the other.
No idea how track balls rate on games. My guess is they'd be fine for RTS or MMORPG, but would be a tad tricky when it comes to FPS.
I'm using my KEYBOARD, bitches!!! That's right! My damn Razor mouse broke on me because Windows is a stupidly designed piece of crap that like to corrupt drivers if your PC crashes. I'm going to reinstall this bitch, bu I need to back up and in the mean time... it's mousekeys for the mother fucking loose.
The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
I started getting RSI like symptoms from mouse usage in 1996. I got a trackball (either Microsoft or Logitech) and a Natural Keyboard. Pain went away overnight. Whenever I've had to use a normal mouse the pain would return after not too much time, so because of this I've stuck to my trackballs. Favourite of all times is the MS Explorer, which they unfortunately discontinued - luckily I have a couple.
Having said all that, when Logitech brought out their G5 laser mouse I decided to give it a try. This has exceptional sensitivity, never misses a beat, and I found that hardly any movement is required to control the mouse. I have now been using it for nearly a year in combination with MS' Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 (great, great unit) and have no discomfort whatsoever.
ISO certified == THX certified
The absolute best pointing device man has ever devised! The design is from around 1995 and Logitech discontinued it years ago (gasp!). I snapped up as many of these puppies on eBay as I could over the years. I will never go to anything else while I can still get my hands on new or used Trackman Marble FX's (or the PS/2 port completely dies out).
Logitech MarbleMouse. My current one is 6 or 7 years old (fewer buttons than the current ones, or the ones current when last I looked a few years ago). I'm sure there is some off-brand trackball that sells for less, but of the commonly available ones I've ever seen, this low-end logitech is by far the cheapest; I've seen them on sale for just under $20.
The ball is a reasonable size, and maintains spin better than many trackballs (in fact, better than any of the consumer-grade trackballs I've tried). I use mice sometimes -- they've gotten better, over the years -- but that's by far my favorite pointer manipulator. I only wish it were wireless USB, so the stupid cord didn't get caught on things, but that's true of anything with a cord at all.
If I could change anything else, it would be to provide an even heavier ball, so a flick of the fingers result in a pointer that keeps moving until the ball is held down with purpose. A thin shell of depleted uranium, perhaps?
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
When we got our 2 sweet x386 presarios with windows 3.0, we also got 2 kensington expert mice. The last of which broke last year. My life has never been the same. Trapped in a world of slow, sloppy mice and touchpads I long for the old days. (If you've never played unreal or done graphic editing with a tackball, you just couldn't understand). I may have to do the unthinkable and buy a new trackball. I re-soldered my board on the surviving expert mouse two years ago, but the din-plug has bad contacts. Maybe If I can find a new cable I can cross the 2 decade make for my pointing device. That would be even sweeter than my old presario x486 with the pentium overdrive...
20% of my 4x4 SUV has never been off the road. I got the SUV because my last two cars melted under prolonged exposure to the SCA.
Ah, yea, the SCA can do that. Are you a member of SCA? I'm not a member now but I've been thinking of joining my local kingdom, Midrealm.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Evolved mice FTW!
You can't take the sky from me...
Is the Microsoft trackball explorer, but to my knowledge they don't make it anymore. The buttons and wheel are oriented on the thumb, and the ball is controlled with the rest of your fingers. It's ergonomic, precise, and the best pointing device I've ever owned. It makes no sense to me that Microsoft stopped making them, they were by far one of their best pointing devices.
Our greatest enemy is neither a single man, nor is it a nation, it is, as it has always been, our own greed.
Try a SpaceNavigator, SpacePilot, or SpaceExplorer. The SpaceNavigator is only $59.
http://www.3dconnexion.com/products/3a.php/
Why anyone would look for anything other than a Wacom tablet is beyond me. Especially if you're doing graphic design, there is nothing better.
Get a 3M Ergonomic Mouse. I switched to one two months ago when I started a project to reduce my RSI and it's worked great. -Grey
Silver Clipboard: Time Management Tips
I've been using Kensington's large, 4 button trackballs (Expert Mouse) for more than 10 years now. Have owned three of them. Switching to a trackball eliminated my wrist problems. Also, works quite well for gaming. It took a little time to get accustomed to the scroll ring on the latest model but now I love it.
Company product page:
http://us.kensington.com/html/1436.html
Let me point out that the Kensington MouseWorks software for their trackballs is very nice. Precise control of cursor acceleration, per application customizable mapping for each button and many other options.
They have versions of MouseWorks for XP, 2000 and OS X. According to their website, for Vista you just go with what the OS supplies.
Having more than 1 computer, as I'm sure you all do.....
We have a good mixture currently used in my house.
1 wireless optical trackball
1 wired m$ trackball
1 wired optical logitech trackball
1 logitech Optical gaming mouse
1 laptop wireless optical mouse
1 ps2 'rolo' mouse
We used to have a 6 inch serial trackball but alas,
my young'uns beat the shit out of it.
I've been using the logitech trackman marble, marble+ and trackman wheel for years, and have never had sore or tired thumbs. My wife was skeptical when we first got one, but quickly grew to love it. My three kids have been raised on these and swear by them. Between work and home, I own eight of these guys. Even the oldest one, some 13-14 years old, is still used daily and functioning perfectly. Just the occasional lint cleaning is all these ever need.
BigFig
Sorry for the all caps subject but I am a huge fan of track ball mice one model in particular. I bought my first track ball when I bought my first computer for myself back in '98. I own a Logitech Trackman Marble FX mouse it is the single greatest mouse I have ever, and still, used. There is probally no one who can claim to have used the same actual mouse for 9+ years. I bought it for 75 bucks in '98 and would pay anything to keep it working. Trackball mice are great if you can find the right model to use. If you google mine you will see it is a "large" ball trackball mouse which while it looks strange is very comfortable to use for long periods and works well for games. Unfortunately my right click button has been giving me big problems but I am prepared, don't faint when I say this, pay to have a mouse repaired. I once looked online to buy a replacement in case mine dies and there are only 2 places it can be found, ebay with used models going for $100+ each or on amazon for well over $250 used. From doing a little searching I found out this model is very highly prized for graphic designers. And just in case ANYONE in the vast slashdot army has one in good condition let me know. And just as a side note anyone else have any suggestions for a good replacement for the one I have now.
http://www.techspot.com/reviews/hardware/trackball _explorer/
I have been using these for my post production company for years since logitech got rid of the cordless trackman explorer.
It has a big red ball and your forearm doesn't cross over the bones like when you are using the kensington (your hand is in a more moderate close to pistol grip position)
You can also hold a pen in that hand if you have a wacom or, better yet an intuos LCD pen device - thats my regular rig and its awesome.
http://www.techspot.com/reviews/hardware/trackball _explorer/ [techspot.com]
I have been using these for my post production company for years since logitech got rid of the cordless trackman FX.
It has a big red ball and your forearm doesn't cross over the radius and ulna bones like when you are using the kensington (your hand is in a more moderate close to pistol grip position)
You can also hold a pen in that hand if you have a wacom or, better yet an intuos LCD pen device - thats my regular rig and its awesome.
Logitech Trackman's with the thumb trackball are great. No fatigue after hours of use. That's all I've used for years after I had 'mouse shoulder' from 12 hour programming days end on end. Highly recommended. -- IV
http://www.LinuxMedNews.com Revolutionizing Medical Education and Practice.
I use the Kensington Orbit at home which retails for $30 and is a piece of garbage in comparison to Kensington's $100 model I've used in the past professionally doing audio mastering.
The $100 model's trackball never stops feeling frictionless when you roll it. Where the $30 Orbit has to be cleaned on a daily basis. 8(
Why haven't I changed my current trackball? I pinch pennies. 8)
I've been using a Logitech "Trackman" for several years, and I have a couple observations.
I must grudgingly agree that I'm not as accurate as I was with a standard mouse, but the inaccuracy really only consists of a pixel off when trying to draw a straight line, so nothing major. And perhaps that wouldn't be a problem if I bought a slightly more expensive model with more fluid motion. Though, I imagine if I needed to be, I could lift my hand up, and use my whole hand to carefully control the cursor for detail work. I could also reduce the speed at which the cursor moves, and get the same effect.
However, the big reason I suggest a thumb operated trackball to everyone all the time is because it's FAST, damn fast. With a 1" movement of my thumb, the cursor goes from one side of the screen to the other. In a tenth of of a second I can (100% accurately) click on any element, anywhere on the screen, without the slightest bit of effort.
More importantly, it is much less stressful. With a mouse, or a traditional trackball, you're using your hand, wrist, and shoulder a tremendous amount, which all starts to get sore after a few hours. Moving your thumb around completely eliminates all of that, and changes it to just moving one finger, an inch at a time. It's a huge relief.
I can recall my thumb getting sore on rare occasions, but I can remember much more often my wrists, hand, shoulder, neck, etc. hurting from using a mouse (for a fraction as long) every day. It's just an added bonus that I get things accomplished far faster.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Biggest problem with a mouse is having to move the right hand back to the kbd to press Enter. However, by positioning the trackball just to the right of the kbd, you can use the right thumb on the second Enter key, making many operations much faster.
At the risk of being shot down for using the name of the One Who's Name Shan't be uttered(trust me, I don't like their software either), I'm greatly enjoy my MS Trackball Explorer. Large sized finger operated optical trackball bliss.
I use A trackball for graphic art, and Logitech laser mouse. As soon as the prices come down I plan to combine the two. You are right trackballs are awesome in games-some games. Other times you just need a yoke. I do a lot graphic work mostly fractals, http://www.artwanted.com/thunder7/ http://thunder7.info/ and other drawings. I had a knee operation a few years ago developed carpal tunnel in both hands trackball still allowed me to draw. When I could no longer draw with my Wacom tablet.
Thunder7 http://thunder7.info/
Today I am an anthropologist and while my work is not on ergonomics (there are a number of anthropologist working in that area), something that I have been thinking about as I read the literature on tool making (flint knapping and other pre-industrial technologies) is that the main area of for precision activity (say something that your grandmother might have done like embroidery, or your grandfather as a cobbler... not all of us are decedents from royalty) takes place in a space in front of the thorax with the head slightly bent down and the hands are mostly facing each other on an angle. The main activity takes place in an arc of movement defined by elbow's movement. The wrist, while used for a number of repetitive tasks, is not typically held in a strained position for long, spending most of the activities time in a "natural" rest position (even while wielding a hammer or other percussive tool).
This is not to say that there were not problems with overworking the hands, fingers, etc. but the types of injuries were quite different than what was introduced with the industrialization of labor, where not only was the body governed to work in a repeating motion at high speeds, but it was molded, quite often orthopedically, to fit the design of the machine, to fit cartesian grids--right angles, etc. While we might think this way (like the modern city layout... e.g., Manhattan, which is in a regular grid) our bodies including our hands, wrists, etc. are not their most efficient and unstressed in these configurations. One of the things that I have tried to teach myself and suggested some students, is to type on the keyboard at angles where the wrist are not bent sideways. In contrast to how "secretaries" were taught (or molded) until the 1970s to use typewriters, as if they were holding lemons while typing and sitting at 90 angles with the feet flat on the ground, one slightly in front of the other. Today there are a number of studies showing that sitting in such a position is not at all good for you and that the slouch with elevated feet... there was something on this not long ago on Slashdot http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/2 8/1742222&from=rss and http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/06112 7112844.htm.
Hope this confused the issue... try to keep the input device in the same horizontal plane as your keyboard, and don't wield a hammer to it (at least not repeatedly prior to a deadline). Be thankful I did not mention QWERTY.
(oh yeah, my favorite off the shelf keyboard is the old Microsoft natural... I wish they made one without the side numeric pad--I suppose I could hack it. I also use an old Logitech stingray trackball... hacked to make the buttons smaller and feel more natural).
I've had a USB thumb controlled marble since 1998 and I'm still using the same one - it's the optical one!
I hate the use of a "Standard Mouse", and always refer anyone to subject themselves to a one week exclusive use of a track ball and they'll switch.
My thumb never gets tired - and I have a nasty habit of reading in pace with my cursor - so I'm using my thumb ALL the time. No pain or soreness ever. I also am quite proficient in PhotoShop - much better accuracy when detailing something.
I pack my marble with my laptop, I can use it anywhere regardless of surface. I take it to work with me - I see my marble wheel more than I do my wife,, eww that's sad - Time for a new profession. Seriously.. simply stated - I LOVE my marble wheel and would give them away if I could afford to do so.
After all you do know what they say - "Once you go Marble - You never go back!"
Never try to beat a professional at his own game!
I use trackball on the left at work, a Logitech that has the ball for the index and middle fingers. As it is symmetrical, I change it to my right hand on the days my left hand is bothering me. At home I have another Logitech, for my right hand w/which the ball is moved w/your thumb. I also use M$ egro-keyboard at work, but a plain old at home. The idea is to get a lot of variation, and not to put too much pressure on any one part of the biomechanical system. I think that it has been somewhat helpful of an approach, I have this nagging structural problem w/my elbows that my nerves are pinched there, and I don't think that I can ever get really a rid of it, but using these measures it's more manageable than it was. At worst it was like a bad tooth-ache. Just at your elbows.
One should also recall that a human being is a very social mind/body creature. It is well known that some RSI troubles come from the social/mind side, so sometimes it's not your mouse that is killing your hands, it can very well be the atmosphere at your work, home, or wherever you are having problems. My blood pressure came down by ten when I changed jobs, w/o any other change. I also think that my RSI bothers me less even if I'm working more, because I'm enjoying what I do, and I feel like I'm valued and respected.
For some of us w/iron will our body is the only thing our mind listens to, and we won't change our habits before the body starts falling apart. That will force change on your pig-headed mind-set, as enough of pain is a great teacher.
The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne
You are right that trackballs have become rare beasts with the explosion of all genii of mice around, nevertheless your kensington is not the only option.
I have a Logitech "Marble Mouse" trackball, it's being sold for 30 euros here.
I don't find it overly useful for graphics (I'm not a graphician) and it's completely useless in games. I think good mouse is better for both of these.
I do rather like it for programming - keep both hands on the keyboard, trackball is right next to the keyboard on the left, so that I can reach it with the little finger. If I have mouse attached it's on the right. I type most of the time, and use trackball for quick pointer operation. Type-track-type is quicker than type-grab mouse-move-realease mouse-type.
You can get a full size IBM keyboard which has both a trackpad and trackpoint (stick, nipple). Fantastic for minimising mouse-related injury because your hands never have to leave the keyboard when pointing.
- 7915324-4463844?v=glance&n=560798
For detailed work (e.g. CAD), consider a digitiser tablet. The pen is a much better interface for precision work, and the combination of integral support from the pad and the orientation of the pen mean it is much easier on the wrist, shoulders and hands than a ball or mouse.
See here for the keyboard (it is quite hard to find)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0002AG0MK/202
I tried a trackball once, and what it really showed to me was how much my index finger has 'learned' to be a mouse clicking device, and not something to push/pull a trackball around. If I tried to make any fine movements using my index finger on the trackball, I discovered I was unable, my finger would start to jitter about. My left hand or other fingers were fine, just my right index finger gets the jitters. I put it down to my brain haveing learned and imprinted the clicky behaviour fo rso long it had perhaps lost the fine motor control needed for the trackball?
Darwin Hawking Blackmore
If logitech had not put that stupid wheel in for the middle button, it would still be great.
I agree, a good trackball reduces the wrist strain and the possibility of carpal tunnel syndrome. I have been using a Logitech "Trackman Marble FX" for the last 6 or 7 years. This particular model has a 2" ball which gives the much needed resolution for cad and image editing. It is a shame that Logitech does not manufacture this model any more. I also use a Wacon tablet.
even if I could find a reason- if I added a fourth monitor I'd crank up the acceleration..
move the mouse fast and a short distance- and it travels far... move the mouse slowly and you get precision
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
I've been using a Logitech Marble Mouse for 7 or more years and I love it. The name is a misnomer in that the trackball is much larger than a marble. They run between $10 to $20 dollars. People have made fun of me for using a track ball, but it works great with my laptop sitting on the couch. Just set it next to me and it never has to move. I use it a lot for digital photography editing and iMovie editing.
I to have been bitten by the trackball bug, work better, and frag more as a result. A 2000 dpi laser version of a trackball is long overdue. Hopefully someone at Logitech or some such will see this...
to a full blown tard?
I'm one of those weirdo's who uses an ergo keyboard and a trackball. My favourite trackball is one that used to be made by Microsoft, the Trackball Explorer 1.0. They seem to have stopped making them however, so I'll be stuck finding something new when it gives up.
I spend many many hours at the keyboard and the use of the trackball reduces stress. The other added benefit is that others never want to use my rig to do anything.
I am not, however, a graphic designer. I'm an IT Architect/Project Manager for a mid-size enterprise. I started using trackballs in the early 90's and have been hooked ever since. Of course, I still use a mouse for gaming and for general computing when I'm at home and my sessions are limited to a couple of hours, but for a 10 hour workday latched to the chair, the trackball is the only way to go.
the amazing bc
just another guy doing IT
webnaut, music junkie, holes-in-head
The ergonomics are great. When I stop moving the cursor, or finish clicking a button my hand is in a neutral position. I don't have to do anything to start using it again. With a mouse, I have to squeeze the sides then release it every time I move the cursor. If I use a mouse I find it really annoying, and notice my shoulder gets sore and my hand clinches up.
Nothing else compares. This is the one peripheral I take with me when I use a laptop. If I ever hear that Logitech is discontinuing the model I'll immediately track down a few spares to put in the closet.
Most of the people who've bought a 4x4 because they need it, rather than because they're a cock, will have bought Land Rovers (or perhaps Range Rovers), or Jeeps. If they've bought it 'cos they think it's a good way to take the sprog to school, they'll probably have got a BMW
BMW does or did build trucks like 4X4s. In 1983 while in Germany I saw one on the road, and it put to shame most of the 4X4s I saw here, er in Florida where I grew up. It was almost as big as Bigfoot.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I have a corded MX-500 Logitech optical mouse and have none of your issues.
It works everywhere except glass. A single white paper sheet is 'the perfect surface' it needs.
It is also the best gaming mouse I have ever used.
I understand you have your issues, but they are not typical at all.
We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
I love the Mouse! :-) I think i would be lost without it.
I'm here for the experience, not the Hyperbole.
Forgive me, but the best trackball ever made was the Microsoft Trackball Explorer. Of course it is no longer made and I broke mine :( My replacement is the Logitech Cordless Optical Trackman. It takes some getting used to, but it is almost as natural feeling as the Explorer. And it was an anniversary present from my wife!
Typos... that's just how I role.
several years ago i was hit by a car, severely damaged my right wrist.
only mouse i can use now is a trackball since it is to painful to work a standard mouse.
the best trackball ive ever used is a MS Trackball explorer, i paid $30 for it, current price i've seen it $190 used
figures the best product MS ever made would get discontinued.
i had a lot of shoulder pain from using mice. a trackball allows me to relax my arm in one position and alleviates the pain from poising the hand over a mouse.
i bought the microsoft intellimouse (trackball), which is operated with the index and middle finger. when i got fed up with the trackball getting gunked up, i looked for an optical version. microsoft's optical trackball is operated with the thumb and my thumb is just not as dexterous as my fingers. i finally settled on the logitech cordless trackman optical. it's not as comfortable as the intellimouse and is just a little too large for my hand, but is very reliable.
i had ruled out the kensington because it was ugly (silly me, yeah?), but after reading about it in this thread, i'm going to be checking it out.
for graphics, i use a wacom intuos tablet. previously, i used a wacom graphire tablet. it comes with mouse that have handy for friends to use.
i've also put a lot of thought into my keyboard. i have used several solutions to eliminate the fixed right-hand keypad. first, i bought a lefkey, with the keypad on the left. then i used an acer ergonomic keyboard with a detached keypad. for the past 3 years, i've been using a typematrix.
I have been having wrist pains and my work got me one of these http://www.contourdesign.com/rollermouse/index.htm
I can now move the mouse with out removing my hands from the keys. It is awesome. I am still getting use to it so I am not to quick with it yet but I think this is a winner.
On a side note I was doing fine as I used VIM for most of my coding then I switched to a project where everything was visual studio based. That is when the pain began
"I've spent my whole life figuring out crazy ways to do things. It'll work." -- Montgomery Scott, "Relics"
" If a mouse fails to operate or should it perform erraticly,it may need a ball replacement.Mouse balls are now available as FRU ( Field Replacement Units). Because of the delicate nature of this procedure, the replacement of mouse balls should only be attempted by properly trained personnel. Before proceeding, determine the type of mouse balls by examining the underside of the mouse. Domestic balls will be larger and harder than foreign balls. Ball removal procedures differ depending upon the manufacturer of the mouse. Foreign balls can be replaced using the "pop off" method. Domestic balls are replaced by using the "twist off" method. Mouse balls are not usually static sensitive.However, excessive handling can result in sudden discharge. Upon completion of ball replacement, the mouse may be used immediately.It is recommended that each person have a spare pair of balls for maintaining customer satisfaction. Any customer missing balls should contact the local personnel in charge of removing and replacing these necessary items. Please keep in mind that a customer without properly working balls is an unhappy customer!! --Interoffice memo from IBM to field engineers about a computer peripheral problem-- Mediocrity thrives on standardization.
for every complex problem , there is a solution that is simple , neat , and wrong.
Thing is, though it is technically a "one-finger mouse" (your thumb on the ball), in order to click & drag, you need another finger--and yours are busy holding the one-finger mouse. You need your other hand to press the left mouse button. Yup, actually a TWO-handed mouse.