With problems. As I just stated in another post, oops here's the right post, I am willing to try KDE. Who knows, right now I don't, but I may like KDE more than Gnome.
So why do you think this means you can't use Gnome as a DE? KDE apps work just fine installed with their dependencies and run under Gnome.
I checked in forums where I ran across people who had problems running Krita in Gnome. I missed this but here's Krita 1.6 -- State of the Art with some of the posters saying they've had problems with Krita in Gnome. That was the first result when I just googled krita gnome.
I suppose I can try Krita in Gnome, but I try to be open minded and see no reason, other than disk space, to not try KDE. Unlike some fanatics I'm willing to try anything to see if it works.
The problem is that most Windows programs don't have any installation method other than the installer, so if Windows decides the installer needs admin rights, there's usually no way to do it without them.
Most Windows programs I've installed did not use the Windows installer, nor did they include an uninstaller. I don't know how many tymes I had to wipe my disks and do a clean install of Windows, in part because a program left or altered keys in the registry. Using Norton System Works to uninstall didn't always help. On the other hand every tyme I installed programs in Linux I had to log in as admin and on the Mac I'm typing this on now even when I'd logged into the admin account I still have to enter the password to install software. And yes, I've owned and used all three OSes.
here's no reason to prohibit the user from installing software locally to their home directory
Viruses, crapware, and spyware are very good reasons to require admin privileges instead of allowing users to install software. As I said earlier employers are even disabling or removing CD/DVD drives and USBflashdrives.
Agreed. I've not seen anything like Windows Group Policy for Linux. But, then again, I've not looked too hard. If someone knows of something like GP for Linux, please let me know!
It's news to me that Linux requires admin privileges to install software.
"Once you've finished choosing, click the Apply button at the bottom of the window. Another window will pop up, showing all of the packages you've selected and asking if you'd like to apply the changes. To install the packages, click Apply. You'll then be asked to type in your super-user/administrator password. Once you've entered it, another window will appear informing you of the installation progress. Once this has finished, click Close. Your new programs are installed, ready to use!"
"Most software packages come with one or more preformatted man pages. As root".
Installing Software
"The process of installing software is very simple. Start YaST by selecting it from the menu under System, or by using the run command dialog (press Alt+F2) and typing yast. You will be required to enter your root password. Start the Software Management-module by selecting it from the Software tab in the YaST Control Center."
That's just a quick look but all three say an admin, root, or superuser password is needed.
Dolphin sucks - use the KDE3 file manager if you want something that's not both "dummied down for the masses" and a cpu hog when it tries to create previews of half a gig of high-res images in a directory.
Does KDE4 have problems with previews? As I just posted when I install Ubuntu on my computer I want to install both Gnome and KDE then switch between them. I'd just use Gnome but there's nothing for it like Krita for photo editing, and no GIMP doesn't cut it. While CinePaint does Ubuntu dropped it.
I just hope Krita can do what I want otherwise I may end up having to get Photoshop.
It'll be a long time before I think the KDE4 desktop is as good as the KDE3.x was. I'll tell you how good *I* think it is. I switched to Gnome. (I considered a bunch of other choices, because I don't like Gnome, not compared to KDE3. But I like it compared to KDE4.)
Let the flame wars begin. Others will say the reverse. Personally, I haven't install Ubuntu on my Mac yet but when I do I'll install both Gnome and KDE then switch between them. I may stick with KDE after a while but I doubt I will use Gnome as the sole desktop. Why? Because I want to try Krita for photo editing, GIMP just doesn't cut it for what I want to do. I'd try CinePaint but Ubuntu dropped it.
No IBM is mainly a services company. That's why they sold their PC devision to a Chinese company. IBM does sell hardware still but it relies more on services and software.
Microsoft continually shoots itself in the foot by completely changing the user interface with each new release of software, resulting in massive productivity losses as everyone has to relearn how to do their job.
This. This is why I ended up on the Mac the last time I was looking at a new laptop (sorry, Linux didn't meet my needs--as much as I wanted it to).
Though not for the same reasons, changes in user interface, like you I switched. I replaced my Windows desktop with a Linux PC and got a MacBook Pro for a laptop.
People have to use MS Office;
Some people may think they need MS Office but I switched to Open Office while I still used Windows. I don't use macros myself so I don't have a problem there but I once had a problem opening a Word document. So someone else recommended I upgrade NeoOffice, the native Mac port of OO.org. Once I did the problem was gone.
Windows 7 also requires Activation. Though Microsoft has made 7 more stable, I also switched because I don't like being treated like a criminal or being spied on. Neither my Linux PC nor my MacBook Pro require it. Nor do they require it again when hardware has been added or swapped. And both my Linux PC and my MacBook Pro are easy to use and polished, though the Mac is better. Actually my Linux PC was easier to setup and use than the Windows PC it replaced, for most things.
Its getting there, but I do not recommend a linux box to my family.
A few months ago my brother-in-law asked me what I thought of the netbooks Target was carrying, Asus I think, with Linux. I told him as long as all he wanted to do was surf the web, check email, or work on plain documents they were fine. But if he wanted to do some intensive computations, he used to work as a day trader, they would not be good.
That asde, to use that as an example is a bit disingenuous. You're presenting a serious edge case as the norm.
Sure it is for home use, but how many corporate users don't have admin rights to their desktop box at work?
With all the viruses and spyware crap going around if corporations allow users to install software instead of requiring IT to do it, they get what they deserve. Some places even block the use of USB flash drives and CDs.
Of course, this discussion is becoming more and more moot; with Vista, Windows assumes that any installer should be run with admin rights even if it would run OK without, which means that non-admins can't install stuff any more either. IMO this was a really stupid decision on MS's part, and it's the main problem I have with Vista's UAC.
You may not like it but MS finally got smart with that and followed OS X and other Unices like Linux by requiring admin privileges to install software.
I'll have more hope for Linux when there is a SIMPLE repository for software the average person can visit and download and install software.
ClickNRun does most of what you ask. Once the client is installed, not yet available for all Linux distros, you can browse for software, or search for something specific and once you find what you want to install click to install. The client will download and install the program. Uninstalling is just as easy. CNR has FOSS as well as commercial/proprietary software, showing on the front page now is Parallels and CrossOver. For game lovers there are more than 1000 games, digital photography has 530, just to check two categories.
Looking through the client list though the latest Ubuntu I see supported is 8.04.
P.S - I have not had a chance to weigh in on Windows 7 yet, but if Microsoft keeps continuing pushing out shit like Vista, it will be Linux against Mac, not Linux against Microsoft.
From what I've read Windows 7 is what Vista was supposed to be, a better Windows. It's supposed to be stable and is smaller. If it weren't for the fact that Microsoft requires Activation and spyware I'd be tempted to install it on my Mac and triple boot, run Snow Leopard, Ubuntu, and Windows 7.
The MS machines I run are all virtual on Linux except for a gaming machine. I don't need Wine at all.
You need Windows then.
If I have an issue with any particular machine I can just revert to a clean VM, and for some I use snapshots
That's a good thing about VMs. However starting with Windows XP if not 2000, Windows needs to be activated. That specifically was one of the reasons I switched from MS Windows to first Linux then OS X.
Unless you think IBM is going to offer Ubuntu with WINE pre-installed??
Ubuntu can install WINE, it's in the repositories.
That assumes that the value of the software is the same, value being usability, performance, etc. For netbooks, servers, and small dedicated devices I don't think Microsoft can compete at all.
More netbooks sell with Windows than Linux. When IT staffers were asked "the operating system of choice for IT netbooks is Windows 7". Some are hoping that because of Moblin Linux will regain market share in netbooks. MS IIS comes in second in webservers, behind Apache. While down from it's high IIS still has a market share of 18% in webservers, excluding Apache more than all the others combined. I don't think Microsoft is in any danger of losing it's market share anytime soon.
I'm all for Linux, but it can't completely replace Microsoft just yet.
For most people both Linux and Macs can replace Windows. People just have this "Microsoft software is needed" attitude. Like a lot of other switchers before switching from Windows to first Linux then OSX I evaluated what I wanted to do, the tasks not the software. I then looked to see if there was any software available for Linux and OSX that could do what I wanted. Other than there being no drop-in replacement for Photoshop for Linux the answer was I could get software that would do what I wanted. And with WINE or Crossover Photoshop CS 2 will run on Linux.
If you reduce the cost of software to zero and compete only on the hardware, you shut out some people from the market and trample others with your behemoth size.
I don't know but there's Willie Nelson Biodiesel, yes Willie Nelson has a chain stations selling biodiesel.
Doesn't mean it won't show up some time. Possibly as soon as three or four years. But you can't sell things now based on the fuel might be available in four years.
The same applies to fuel cells and the hydrogen economy. I favor research into different energy sources, just not with taxpayer subsidies.
I'm fine with repealing mandatory seatbelt laws (for adults), but only under the condition that the ambulance and emergency room are not required to treat anyone who was stupid enough to get in a car wreck when they weren't wearing a seatbelt.
Do you also oppose mandatory treatment for anyone stupid enough to get in a car? They are both matters of choice.
I wonder if you even know know anyone who works in a medical field, I personally do. My mother is a lab tech in a hospital and my older sister is a nurse.
I also wonder if you'd feel the same if you were badly burned. May I suggest you visit Galveston Burns Hospital or another hospital specializing in burns. While there visit some patients screaming from agony.
I don't know about you but that's probably the most effective way to get me to kill myself, burning my body. I'd rather go flying through a windshield and get run over than survive a total body burn.
All that's needed is a racing-style flexible bladder inside that prevents fuel from spilling when the hard outer shell is breached
Like the roads are full with cars that have fuel cells. I must of missed that.
It's much more important than curtain airbags or fucking OnStar.
Have you ever seen mangled bodies in car accidents? Or have you never tried to tell an emergency operator where you're at in an accident? Personally I don't like OnStar, because of the possibility to use it for tracking, but they have saved lives, as have seatbelts and airbags.
It really pisses me off when I hear of someone burning to death in a car accident.
Same here, to me the worst way to die is to burn to death. And one of the most painful way to live is by surviving a bad burn, another is surviving a Traumatic Brain Injury. Because of the pain from the little I've been burned, I'd never ever want to be seriously burned. And surviving one would probably be the most effective way to get me to kill myself.
Yeah, that's like doors in elevators. They can cause so many problems I mean imagine that you're stuck in an elevator and there's a fire or the elevator is about to drop. Well if you didn't have any doors you could easily go out!
she was wearing her seat belt which became jammed.
Things like this are why everyone should carry (at least) a pocketknife, either on them or in their car within easy reach.
Personally I almost always have one of my Gerber's in one of my pockets, I've been carrying pocket knives since I was in elementary school. I, and a bunch of others, even carried our knives to school. But with the nanny state that's inadvisable today, whenever I go into a government building I have to take my knife out before entering.
Mandatory seatbelt laws save far more lives than they cost, and the problem you quote is so easily avoided that it's a straw man arguement against them.
Ah, so you're going to say the death of the elementary school girl I knew who burned to death could have been avoided? Yea, it could have, by not getting in a car. But because you apparently don't believe in personal responsibility you want government to dictate what can not and must do. I don't want to live in your world where governments can make victimless crimes.
A much better solution is to wear your damn seatbelt and carry one of these in the car.
Personally I almost always have a knife in my pocket (another subject) so it doesn't matter much to me even if I didn't hate wearing a seat belt, but it's not like a child in the back seat can use one of those. Or an adult in the front seat can use one to free a child in the back seat.
Falcon
Gosh, what is it with all the nanny state laws and regulations.
I imagine the streets of many major cities may wind up getting traffic jams very frequently
Have dedicated mass transit lanes. In Minneapolis we have not just individual lanes only buses can use but entire roads. There's a section of a road not far from me that cars can not drive on, it is only used for mass transit.
From the summary: "Even if you use the dirtiest coal plant on the planet [to charge an ultracapacitor], it generates a third of the carbon dioxide of diesel."
Slashdot Mirror
With problems. As I just stated in another post, oops here's the right post, I am willing to try KDE. Who knows, right now I don't, but I may like KDE more than Gnome.
Falcon
So why do you think this means you can't use Gnome as a DE? KDE apps work just fine installed with their dependencies and run under Gnome.
I checked in forums where I ran across people who had problems running Krita in Gnome. I missed this but here's Krita 1.6 -- State of the Art with some of the posters saying they've had problems with Krita in Gnome. That was the first result when I just googled krita gnome.
I suppose I can try Krita in Gnome, but I try to be open minded and see no reason, other than disk space, to not try KDE. Unlike some fanatics I'm willing to try anything to see if it works.
Falcon
The problem is that most Windows programs don't have any installation method other than the installer, so if Windows decides the installer needs admin rights, there's usually no way to do it without them.
Most Windows programs I've installed did not use the Windows installer, nor did they include an uninstaller. I don't know how many tymes I had to wipe my disks and do a clean install of Windows, in part because a program left or altered keys in the registry. Using Norton System Works to uninstall didn't always help. On the other hand every tyme I installed programs in Linux I had to log in as admin and on the Mac I'm typing this on now even when I'd logged into the admin account I still have to enter the password to install software. And yes, I've owned and used all three OSes.
here's no reason to prohibit the user from installing software locally to their home directory
Viruses, crapware, and spyware are very good reasons to require admin privileges instead of allowing users to install software. As I said earlier employers are even disabling or removing CD/DVD drives and USB flash drives.
Falcon
Agreed. I've not seen anything like Windows Group Policy for Linux. But, then again, I've not looked too hard. If someone knows of something like GP for Linux, please let me know!
Is this what you were looking for: Group Policy for UNIX, Linux and Mac? I didn't know myself but a simple Google of linux group policies returned that as the second result.
Falcon
I often wear many hats and learning and configuring SELinux is complicated.
And learning and configuring Windows to be locked down is easy? I had enough trouble trying to keep Windows running.
Falcon
It's news to me that Linux requires admin privileges to install software.
"Once you've finished choosing, click the Apply button at the bottom of the window. Another window will pop up, showing all of the packages you've selected and asking if you'd like to apply the changes. To install the packages, click Apply. You'll then be asked to type in your super-user/administrator password. Once you've entered it, another window will appear informing you of the installation progress. Once this has finished, click Close. Your new programs are installed, ready to use!"
"Most software packages come with one or more preformatted man pages. As root".
Installing Software
"The process of installing software is very simple. Start YaST by selecting it from the menu under System, or by using the run command dialog (press Alt+F2) and typing yast. You will be required to enter your root password. Start the Software Management-module by selecting it from the Software tab in the YaST Control Center."
That's just a quick look but all three say an admin, root, or superuser password is needed.
Falcon
Dolphin sucks - use the KDE3 file manager if you want something that's not both "dummied down for the masses" and a cpu hog when it tries to create previews of half a gig of high-res images in a directory.
Does KDE4 have problems with previews? As I just posted when I install Ubuntu on my computer I want to install both Gnome and KDE then switch between them. I'd just use Gnome but there's nothing for it like Krita for photo editing, and no GIMP doesn't cut it. While CinePaint does Ubuntu dropped it.
I just hope Krita can do what I want otherwise I may end up having to get Photoshop.
Falcon
It'll be a long time before I think the KDE4 desktop is as good as the KDE3.x was. I'll tell you how good *I* think it is. I switched to Gnome. (I considered a bunch of other choices, because I don't like Gnome, not compared to KDE3. But I like it compared to KDE4.)
Let the flame wars begin. Others will say the reverse. Personally, I haven't install Ubuntu on my Mac yet but when I do I'll install both Gnome and KDE then switch between them. I may stick with KDE after a while but I doubt I will use Gnome as the sole desktop. Why? Because I want to try Krita for photo editing, GIMP just doesn't cut it for what I want to do. I'd try CinePaint but Ubuntu dropped it.
Falcon
No IBM is mainly a services company. That's why they sold their PC devision to a Chinese company. IBM does sell hardware still but it relies more on services and software.
Falcon
Microsoft continually shoots itself in the foot by completely changing the user interface with each new release of software, resulting in massive productivity losses as everyone has to relearn how to do their job.
This. This is why I ended up on the Mac the last time I was looking at a new laptop (sorry, Linux didn't meet my needs--as much as I wanted it to).
Though not for the same reasons, changes in user interface, like you I switched. I replaced my Windows desktop with a Linux PC and got a MacBook Pro for a laptop.
People have to use MS Office;
Some people may think they need MS Office but I switched to Open Office while I still used Windows. I don't use macros myself so I don't have a problem there but I once had a problem opening a Word document. So someone else recommended I upgrade NeoOffice, the native Mac port of OO.org. Once I did the problem was gone.
Falcon
Windows 7 also requires Activation. Though Microsoft has made 7 more stable, I also switched because I don't like being treated like a criminal or being spied on. Neither my Linux PC nor my MacBook Pro require it. Nor do they require it again when hardware has been added or swapped. And both my Linux PC and my MacBook Pro are easy to use and polished, though the Mac is better. Actually my Linux PC was easier to setup and use than the Windows PC it replaced, for most things.
Its getting there, but I do not recommend a linux box to my family.
A few months ago my brother-in-law asked me what I thought of the netbooks Target was carrying, Asus I think, with Linux. I told him as long as all he wanted to do was surf the web, check email, or work on plain documents they were fine. But if he wanted to do some intensive computations, he used to work as a day trader, they would not be good.
Falcon
That asde, to use that as an example is a bit disingenuous. You're presenting a serious edge case as the norm.
Sure it is for home use, but how many corporate users don't have admin rights to their desktop box at work?
With all the viruses and spyware crap going around if corporations allow users to install software instead of requiring IT to do it, they get what they deserve. Some places even block the use of USB flash drives and CDs.
Of course, this discussion is becoming more and more moot; with Vista, Windows assumes that any installer should be run with admin rights even if it would run OK without, which means that non-admins can't install stuff any more either. IMO this was a really stupid decision on MS's part, and it's the main problem I have with Vista's UAC.
You may not like it but MS finally got smart with that and followed OS X and other Unices like Linux by requiring admin privileges to install software.
Falcon
I'll have more hope for Linux when there is a SIMPLE repository for software the average person can visit and download and install software.
ClickNRun does most of what you ask. Once the client is installed, not yet available for all Linux distros, you can browse for software, or search for something specific and once you find what you want to install click to install. The client will download and install the program. Uninstalling is just as easy. CNR has FOSS as well as commercial/proprietary software, showing on the front page now is Parallels and CrossOver. For game lovers there are more than 1000 games, digital photography has 530, just to check two categories.
Looking through the client list though the latest Ubuntu I see supported is 8.04.
P.S - I have not had a chance to weigh in on Windows 7 yet, but if Microsoft keeps continuing pushing out shit like Vista, it will be Linux against Mac, not Linux against Microsoft.
From what I've read Windows 7 is what Vista was supposed to be, a better Windows. It's supposed to be stable and is smaller. If it weren't for the fact that Microsoft requires Activation and spyware I'd be tempted to install it on my Mac and triple boot, run Snow Leopard, Ubuntu, and Windows 7.
Falcon
The MS machines I run are all virtual on Linux except for a gaming machine. I don't need Wine at all.
You need Windows then.
If I have an issue with any particular machine I can just revert to a clean VM, and for some I use snapshots
That's a good thing about VMs. However starting with Windows XP if not 2000, Windows needs to be activated. That specifically was one of the reasons I switched from MS Windows to first Linux then OS X.
Unless you think IBM is going to offer Ubuntu with WINE pre-installed??
Ubuntu can install WINE, it's in the repositories.
Falcon
That assumes that the value of the software is the same, value being usability, performance, etc. For netbooks, servers, and small dedicated devices I don't think Microsoft can compete at all.
More netbooks sell with Windows than Linux. When IT staffers were asked "the operating system of choice for IT netbooks is Windows 7". Some are hoping that because of Moblin Linux will regain market share in netbooks. MS IIS comes in second in webservers, behind Apache. While down from it's high IIS still has a market share of 18% in webservers, excluding Apache more than all the others combined. I don't think Microsoft is in any danger of losing it's market share anytime soon.
I'm all for Linux, but it can't completely replace Microsoft just yet.
For most people both Linux and Macs can replace Windows. People just have this "Microsoft software is needed" attitude. Like a lot of other switchers before switching from Windows to first Linux then OSX I evaluated what I wanted to do, the tasks not the software. I then looked to see if there was any software available for Linux and OSX that could do what I wanted. Other than there being no drop-in replacement for Photoshop for Linux the answer was I could get software that would do what I wanted. And with WINE or Crossover Photoshop CS 2 will run on Linux.
Falcon
If you reduce the cost of software to zero and compete only on the hardware, you shut out some people from the market and trample others with your behemoth size.
Having sold it to Levono IBM no longer makes PC hardware. The article IBM and Canonical team up against Windows 7 goes over some reasons IBM may be doing this.
Falcon
I don't know but there's Willie Nelson Biodiesel, yes Willie Nelson has a chain stations selling biodiesel.
Doesn't mean it won't show up some time. Possibly as soon as three or four years. But you can't sell things now based on the fuel might be available in four years.
The same applies to fuel cells and the hydrogen economy. I favor research into different energy sources, just not with taxpayer subsidies.
Falcon
Ah, Willie Nelson. One of the Highway Men.
I'm fine with repealing mandatory seatbelt laws (for adults), but only under the condition that the ambulance and emergency room are not required to treat anyone who was stupid enough to get in a car wreck when they weren't wearing a seatbelt.
Do you also oppose mandatory treatment for anyone stupid enough to get in a car? They are both matters of choice.
I wonder if you even know know anyone who works in a medical field, I personally do. My mother is a lab tech in a hospital and my older sister is a nurse.
I also wonder if you'd feel the same if you were badly burned. May I suggest you visit Galveston Burns Hospital or another hospital specializing in burns. While there visit some patients screaming from agony.
I don't know about you but that's probably the most effective way to get me to kill myself, burning my body. I'd rather go flying through a windshield and get run over than survive a total body burn.
Falcon
All that's needed is a racing-style flexible bladder inside that prevents fuel from spilling when the hard outer shell is breached
Like the roads are full with cars that have fuel cells. I must of missed that.
It's much more important than curtain airbags or fucking OnStar.
Have you ever seen mangled bodies in car accidents? Or have you never tried to tell an emergency operator where you're at in an accident? Personally I don't like OnStar, because of the possibility to use it for tracking, but they have saved lives, as have seatbelts and airbags.
It really pisses me off when I hear of someone burning to death in a car accident.
Same here, to me the worst way to die is to burn to death. And one of the most painful way to live is by surviving a bad burn, another is surviving a Traumatic Brain Injury. Because of the pain from the little I've been burned, I'd never ever want to be seriously burned. And surviving one would probably be the most effective way to get me to kill myself.
Falcon
Yeah, that's like doors in elevators. They can cause so many problems I mean imagine that you're stuck in an elevator and there's a fire or the elevator is about to drop. Well if you didn't have any doors you could easily go out!
Straw man.
Falcon
she was wearing her seat belt which became jammed.
Things like this are why everyone should carry (at least) a pocketknife, either on them or in their car within easy reach.
Personally I almost always have one of my Gerber's in one of my pockets, I've been carrying pocket knives since I was in elementary school. I, and a bunch of others, even carried our knives to school. But with the nanny state that's inadvisable today, whenever I go into a government building I have to take my knife out before entering.
Mandatory seatbelt laws save far more lives than they cost, and the problem you quote is so easily avoided that it's a straw man arguement against them.
Ah, so you're going to say the death of the elementary school girl I knew who burned to death could have been avoided? Yea, it could have, by not getting in a car. But because you apparently don't believe in personal responsibility you want government to dictate what can not and must do. I don't want to live in your world where governments can make victimless crimes.
Falcon
A much better solution is to wear your damn seatbelt and carry one of these in the car.
Personally I almost always have a knife in my pocket (another subject) so it doesn't matter much to me even if I didn't hate wearing a seat belt, but it's not like a child in the back seat can use one of those. Or an adult in the front seat can use one to free a child in the back seat.
Falcon
Gosh, what is it with all the nanny state laws and regulations.
That "US comapny" that is Chinese, is really French. Then again Jaguar is owned by the Indian company Tata.
Falcon
I imagine the streets of many major cities may wind up getting traffic jams very frequently
Have dedicated mass transit lanes. In Minneapolis we have not just individual lanes only buses can use but entire roads. There's a section of a road not far from me that cars can not drive on, it is only used for mass transit.
Falcon
From the summary: "Even if you use the dirtiest coal plant on the planet [to charge an ultracapacitor], it generates a third of the carbon dioxide of diesel."
Yea, notice it said "diesel" not biodiesel.
Falcon