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IBM's Answer To Windows 7 Is Ubuntu Linux
An anonymous reader writes "It looks like IBM isn't much of a friend of Microsoft's anymore. Today IBM announced an extension of its Microsoft-Free PC effort together with Canonical Ubuntu Linux. This is the same thing that was announced a few weeks back for Africa (a program that began a year ago), and now it's available in the US. The big push is that IBM claims it will cost up to $2,000 for a business to move to Windows 7. They argue that moving to Linux is cheaper."
If you reduce the cost of software to zero and compete only on the hardware, you shut out some people from the market and trample others with your behemoth size.
Microsoft responded by stating they are happy IBM has found someone new, that's just great, and hey by the way MS is engaged to Dell who is hotter than IBM anyway so there.
I think one of the hindrances for businesses to move to Linux on the desktop is the lack of programs for Linux that allow the complete lock-down of the desktop. In Windows, there are many applications that let you control which users can access different areas in the GUI, well beyond Windows Access Control.
.
I don't know of anything similar in the Linux Desktop Environment to Windows Access Control or the other programs that are out there. Does anyone else?
Ubuntu would be great solution for the enterprise. Basic email and office apps, what more do you need? The only problem with Ubuntu is that it needs more testing and validation before each release cycle. I've had basic functionality break between releases and this will not be acceptable for business use.
...for downloading Ubuntu Linux.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
.... which IBM wouldn't even sell in its own computers. I wish 'em luck in their new endeavor. They'll need it.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Ubuntu works for me. Large community, fixed release schedule.
But whatever your choice, small to medium sized companies need to plan well ahead *before* they get locked in,
otherwise one day you'll be in your office and your MS exchange server will say "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that", then you're stuck with the thing forever.
If Microsoft introduces an incompatible change in Windows 8 (so that, for example a given version of IE can no longer be installed, or a driver for a widely deployed device stops working), it can force a company into unbounded costs of updating their software and hardware. On the other hand, once initial migration to Ubuntu is done, only an effort of a dozen developers would be needed to compile Firefox 1.0 with new libraries, update a driver to work with 2.6 kernel and so on. While for an individual it may be acceptable - and cheaper - to buy new peripherals and applications - IBM can trivially afford custom development costs to keep an operating system running exactly the same way they want it.
It doesn't make sense for any large business with non-trivial needs to run an operating system for which they can not control future direction.
More like "Year of the Linux Desktop Being Used to Reach the Cloud"? Which, I guess, will be good for the 'general' Linux desktop end user anyway. Fallout from this might prove beneficial in things like wider vendor support, more recognition, maybe some driver work in areas where attention is needed (cough Intel GMA500... /cough).
"...there are some things that can beat smartness and foresight. Awkwardness and stupidity can." ~ Mark Twain
$2,000 US to upgrade per machine? I don't know what in the heck IBM is talking about. I've been running Windows 7 on a two year old $500 laptop without any issues since Beta. They are easily over exagerating that cost, in my opinion, and frankly it turns me off of Ubuntu to see them buddying up with IBM in this way.
*On an interesting side note, I wonder if they calculated all the man hours and reworking of customized code that most shops would have to put in to go from a Microsoft shop to all Linux - I seriously doubt it.
**Do we even want to get into the compatability issues with COTS that still plagues Linux?
I wonder how IBM arrived at the result of $2000. Because I'm pretty sure that out of the 150k people that I work with that 3/4 of them will take months to adjust to Linux and be completely pissed off the entire time. At an internal rate of $100-$150 per person per hour... uh... lol, right.
This is what most of the company uses: Outlook, Word, Excel, Powerpoint. Project. File shares. Blackberry/Phone. Online web conferences. PDF. That's about it. Everything else is either a back-end system specific to the business or a program (i.e, drafting, manufacturing, etc) for the specific business at hand.
And don't give me crap about open office solutions. It took most of these people 10 or 20 years to just get by with Office, you really think they are going to want to essentially re-learn everything? $2000 is only relevant if the people are actually fairly computer savy, which pretty much everyone everywhere is not nor do they care to bother.
"Anymore"?
Uhm, there is some history there...
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Linux is the shiv they want to give to MS.
Now if they would take some of that money and develop a market for game houses to make games for it we would have something.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
.. MS need to be careful. IBM may be a beat up company but they still have a lot of power and can still hurt MS.
Ubuntu is an impressive distro for reasons many have argued here before. Karmic is actually a great improvement over Jaunty, and I think it's heading in a positive direction.
I might not have seen it, but I think Ubuntu's server area needs professional, detailed, Ubuntu-specific (if needed) DOCUMENTATION on everything an Ubuntu admin would need to use. http://doc.ubuntu.com/ has the most up-to-date version of the Ubuntu Server Guide, which is a decent start. It pales in comparison, however, to the FreeBSD handbook.
Where's the documentation on
GRUB 2?
Upstart?
UEC?
Building your own repository?
Setting up mass deployment via Kickstart/preseeding?
These are all things integral to the operating system and its deployment. I'm not saying Ubuntu has to have the definitive guide to Nagios or other 3rd party software.
Some things are well covered in the Ubuntu Server Guide, "Pro Ubuntu Server Administration" and Prentice Hall's "The Official Ubuntu Server Book". I would like to see more enterprise tooling and documentation for Ubuntu Server before I expect them to make a significant trench in the enterprise space.
And for those who might say Ubuntu is a desktop-oriented distro,
1) You haven't seen the work or the marketing Ubuntu has done on their server side, and
2) I think Ubuntu could succeed if they can market themselves as THE operating system for an organization.
unless you want sound, or wireless, or printing.
i've tried _so_hard_ to like linux about every year or so for the last 10 years, but come on.
Unless IBM spends $buttloads of dollars fixing it (at which point it would no longer be ubuntu but an IBM build (and didn't novell already try that?))
anyways fine, you'd end up with another MacOS. which might be cool, but any which way we're no longer discussing Ubuntu.
The FOSS model is great for what it is, but it doesn't compare to something which large amounts of money has been pumped into.
A good point, but let's not forget that under the glitzy GUI Ubuntu is STILL Linux, and you can lock it down just as tight as any other distribution with a bit of elbow grease. Security is hardly one of Linux's black marks.
If you aren't angry, you aren't paying attention.
Has anyone here been able to find a good guide for joining a Linux client to an AD domain?
ViewTouch
now sod off you stupid troll
Ahhhh, the sweet sweet smell of Microsoft FUD.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
> ...there's no low to mid range POS software that runs on *nix.
True. "Piece Of Shit" software is a Microsoft specialty.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Uhh . . .
Ubuntu needs 256 MB RAM and ~8 GB (they say four, but from personal experience, you need at least 8) of Hard drive space.
Windows 7 needs 1 GB RAM and 16GB Disk.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(operating_system)
I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
Ubuntu is in the market since Windows XP, and it didn't even break through the Vista gap, if this is IBM's answer to Windows 7, sorry it is a very wrong answer
But wait, isn't this anti-competitive? Isn't that what everyone around here always shouts about Microsoft being bundled with computers bought from major vendors? Shouldn't Slashdot be lambasting IBM for not allowing their users to install whichever OS they want? Shouldn't Slashdot be demanding that IBM's computers be sold with no OS whatsoever? Or is it only anti-competitive if Microsoft does it?
I love how when anyone on Slashdot says anything pro-Microsoft or anti-*nix, they are immediately branded a troll.
I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
You heard it here first: Ubuntu IBMs unavailable in 10 weeks, timed conveniently with new promotional pricing on Windows 7 on IBM hardware...
The big push is that IBM claims it will cost up to $2,000 for a business to move to Windows 7. They argue that moving to Linux is cheaper. Only $2000 for the likes of Wal-mart, Exxon or Coca-cola to move to Windows 7 ? I doubt Linux can be done anywhere near that cheap.
so MS can't threaten to raise their per-license costs for computers. It was never "friendship", especially after the NT-OS/2 split, just a business arrangement.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
MS-DOS beat PC-DOS NT3.5 beat OS/2 Heck, you can argue that MS SQL Server is beating DB2 If I were choosing a side in this fight, I'd stick with Microsoft...
I love how the trolls all have more than one account.
Devil's advocate:
I am sure that if Linux had the market share that Windows does, it would have many more security problems. Part of the reason that Linux doesn't have security problems is because most of the bad guys of the technology world don't care about it, therefore they don't concentrate their efforts on it. This is not to say that it isn't secure. It is quite secure. However, just because security holes aren't utilized on a wide scale doesn't mean they are not there.
I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
The past 6 months for several clients I have been running Proof of Concepts of moving from Desktop infrastructure to VDI(Virtual Desktop Infrastructure)
Microsoft have made licensing for running Windows desktops in a virtual environment so insane and added ridiculous costs just for the privilege of running Windows XP, Vista or 7 in a data centre that when you look at the ROI you don't see a massive benefit of shedding hardware.
A couple of those clients are actually now investigating migrations from Windows desktop to Ubuntu/SUSE Linux and running legacy Windows applications from Sun SGD/Windows Termial Server.
VDI offers huge opportunities for companies to shed the upkeep and maintenance of desktops and Microsoft are putting in as many hurdles as humanly possible to keep companies purchasing desktops every 3-4 years so they can still get their Microsoft tax from OEM's. I'm advising anyone these days to assess their dependence on windows if they are looking at VDI solutions and investigate deployments in Linux.
"It looks like IBM isn't much of a friend of Microsoft's anymore."
Anymore? This is old news. Remember OS/2?
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
I think everyone here is missing the point. This is less about how accurate IBM's claims are, and more about the fact a company as large as IBM with a name that established was actually willing to publicly say it. That by itself is a major benifit for Linux.
This is all about momentum, marketing, and market share. I mean seriously, we act as if Microsoft has never made erroneous or speculative claims in the spirit of customer coercion. This is how business works.
I am pretty sure that the banks that rely on Linux on zSeries to manage billions of dollars of transactions per day would disagree with you. Is that not a valuable enough target for the "bad guys?"
Palm trees and 8
I find it interesting that these stories never seem to talk about the cost of retraining in that switch from Windows to Linux in the work place. The authors must be those same people that keep writing about how software companies should replace boxed product with downloading because bandwidth is free.
I'm not saying that many companies wouldn't benefit financially from the switch. Many would. But there are a lot that wouldn't. Anyone who thinks the Microsoft license and the cost of the hardware are the only expenses has no business being a decision-maker in their company's IT.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
the question was "Do you believe insider trading is rampant within IBM?"
Apache would like to have a word with you.
Sure, let's talk about Apache then: Apache 2.2.x, 17 advisories, 28 vulnerabilities, 2 unpatched. IIS 7.x, 2 advisories, 2 vulnerabilities, all patched. Are you going to apologize now? I didn't think so.
Do you get paid to shill?
Being a devil's advocate on an issue != being a troll on an issue, but pretending to be a devil's advocate just so you can FUD = Troll.
You don't know what you're talking about (as shown above), and you attack the person instead of the message. On top of that, you've been spamming your silly "shilling" accusation all over the place, no matter what other posters say. I think you're the troll here, and not a very bright one either.
Windows Server products meet those criteria too - provided you configure them in a specific way which renders them unable to run most off the shelf applications, and do not apply any updates between Service Pack releases.
Too bad your users don't have the same freedoms you enjoy. You're right—software freedom is the way to go. Sharing and improving, truly controlling one's own computer and the social solidarity that gives rise to is the single most important reason why nobody should use proprietary software. Including yours.
Digital Citizen
maybe some driver work in areas where attention is needed (cough Intel GMA500... /cough).
Except that the GMA500 driver is not open-source:
The driver is developed by Tungsten Graphics, not by Intel, and the graphic core is not an Intel one, but is licensed from PowerVR. This has led to close source 3d accelerated drivers, instability and lack of support.
rtfw
Anybody want my mod points?
Windows expertise fairly cheaply
Like the sidekick cheap?
or London stock exchange cheap?
The deal you get on the back of a napkin during a nice lunch is soon gone with recovery and the PR mess of epic fail.
The only thing cheap about MS is the first try as a student to get you hooked.
Just like a smart drug dealer at the gates.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I know of ten or twenty national air traffic control systems which run Linux.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
I am sure that if Linux had the market share that Windows does, it would have many more security problems.
Seeing as you like devil's advocacy, let's examine this for a statement for a minute. It seems reasonable to me that many hackers would prefer to compromise a server rather than a desktop seeing as servers are always on so they're great for a bot-net node and many of them have more interesting things going through them like e-commerce, banking, etc. Let's think about this in light of the fact that according to this article Steve Ballmer himself recently thought Linux has a 60 percent share of the server market.
If that's even remotely close to being true, then it doesn't stand to reason that hackers aren't trying to exploit it. I'd posit that they are. For some reason they just aren't succeeding very well. Hmmm.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
Why would I apologize that Apache talks about their issues and the IIS team hides them?
I think your the same guy as the one above, which does not really matter. The fact is he has been spreading FUD throughout this page and I called him out, so what?
Being a dick = troll.
And I love how the Linux fanbois on /. will drown out all other thought. Linux is not as superior as you all would have the world believe. Sure, Windows has a crapload of problems and MS is just an evil company - and we all love making jokes about Sweaty Steve... but seriously - Linux on the Desktop still has a LONG way to go before it can really permeate the mainstream userbase. One of the biggest reasons? Linux still requires some level of computing competence to use. Most users - especially non-tech-industry business users - avoid this competence like they flock to MBA alumni get-togethers.
/. irrationality when it comes to the OS wars. Windows has a lot of suck wrapped up in it, we can all agree - but Linux isn't ready to be the desktop alternative yet either. It's just not.
I'm kinda getting tired of the
IMHO, the OP wasn't so much trolling as he was just wrong. For dedicated machinery like a POS box, or a mail gateway, or a DNS server, or anything where you're locking the box down and making it perform specific functions, there's probably no better option than Linux. But for a multi-use, end-user machine that is being used by anyone for anything, Linux just isn't there yet.
Down with the career politician! SUPPORT TERM LIMITS
And don't give me crap about open office solutions. It took most of these people 10 or 20 years to just get by with Office, you really think they are going to want to essentially re-learn everything?
Unless you're like my employer, which uses Access as a platform on which to run an off-the-shelf VBA app (from which we're slowly migrating), is the retraining from Microsoft Office 2003 to OOo 3.x with its traditional menus really that much harder than the retraining from Microsoft Office 2003 to Microsoft Office 2007 with its ribbon?
Try ubuntu. The reality is it has gotten there, you just don't want to admit it.
Heck, I would say it has gotten further in the install and go department than windows probably ever will. Both Gnome and KDE are brain dead easy to use.
I believe IBM's estimates on Windows 7 upgrading costs about as much as I believe Microsoft's TCO Linux estimates which is to say not at all. Come on - if you guys can't look at that $2,000 number, roll your eyes and mumble something about marketing then you're hopeless....
IBM isn't much of a friend of Microsoft's anymore.
IBM hasn't been a big fan of MS's since MS caught IBM's fumble in the PS/2-OS/2 disaster.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Screw that, Ubuntu server needs to reliably support installing on Software raid. (tried it, failed, used debian instead)
Successful exploitation requires that a threaded Multi-Processing Module is used and that the mod_proxy_ftp module is enabled. (...) An error in the included APR-util library can be exploited to trigger hangs in the prefork and event MPMs on Solaris.
And the second (first in order on the site) unpatched vulnerability deals strictly with a mod_ftp input validation issue. Again, I rarely even see mod_ftp even used as opposed to an entirely seperate FTP server daemon but disabling the faulty module is simple enough in environments requiring absolute security.
And input validation issues are usually patched fairly quickly anyways, I mean come on, this is 2009 and there are too many developers for the project that wouldn't let this sort of thing continue for this amount of time. Not to mention the fact that these unpatched vulnerabilities are nothing compared to the olde IIS Webdav exploit of a few years ago - too bad there wasn't a community aware of it sooner other than the underground black hats already using it to their advantage by the time it was brought to the attention of MS.
MS SQL, DB2? They are not even in the same category. DB2 can hold the biggest, heaviest database you can imagine, MSSQL is MSSQL; for your department's data. Believe in me, I know both ;)
Please don't ever use the Wine as an example of Linux being compatible with Windows software. Because a huge majority of programs simply don't work with it, and those that do have had special coding done in Wine to make them work, and even then they are as buggy as hell.
I'm not trying to bash Wine, I'm simply stating the facts as observed from four years of using Linux on the desktop.
Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
Why isn't IBM jumping first, and take the lead to move the whole IBM to Linux desktop? You know, the do-what-you-are-preaching concept? Last week, 5 IBM people came to our office to pitch for a 3 million contract, and I saw every single person (technical and sales) is running Windows Vista, with the latest MS Office. The only thing I recognized as IBM-made is Lotus Notes, which we also use here.
About 8 years ago, it was the same thing with Sun. We had a bunch of Sun people came to our office (another company), and they kept bitching about MS Windows and MS Office, while at the same time preaching Linux and Star Office. And guess what they were running? Yeah, you got it. At one point, I had enough of their bitching, I told them with a straight face: "Why don't you guys install Linux and Star Office, and send me that fucking slide in open format?" They looked at me as if I was from Mars, then I turned on my laptop, and it was running Linux.
One suggestion to the big guys: don't preach, do it. Then everyone will follow, you have enough clout to take the lead.
Change takes time, especially when companies have been used to various programs such as Microsoft Word, Powerpoint, Excel and Outlook. As SparafucileMan noted, it can take months before people are 'adjusted' to Linux systems. If you're wanting your workplace to operate under a *nix environment, bring it in slowly and teach people as you go, don't push it hard and fast.
Are you suggesting that I have multiple accounts, and use them to troll? Sorry, wrong on both accounts. I have only one account, and I merely state my opinion, or even the opposite of my opinion, in order to avoid the mob mentality. I know that if one wants to be popular on slashdot, one must be a *nix fanboy. It is good that I don't want to be popular. I like to point out multiple sides of issues. I have defended both Open source and closed source, Linux and Microsoft. If I wanted to troll, do you really think I would use my real account name, and risk karma? Wouldn't it be easier to just post AC? Before you go branding someone a troll, consider the possibility that they are merely trying to establish a point of view that may be counter to your own.
I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
And to quote from the secunia website:
"PLEASE NOTE: The statistics provided should NOT be used to compare the overall security of products against one another. It is IMPORTANT to understand what the below comments mean when using the statistics, especially when using the statistics to compare the vulnerability aspects of different products."
But just for fun - don't forget that IIS needs to run on Windows: 212 Secunia advisories, 282 Vulnerabilities, 12 Unpatched...
That's the secunia report for Windows 2003 "Web Edition" - which is reasonably representative. Compare that to OpenBSD.
Goodluck with that! :)
Unless I missed something about buying Lenovo back from the Chinese...
If the elephant plans to back Canonical, it had better be willing to put up some serious development money in the process. Ubuntu is nowhere near ready for prime time, and I don't care what its' fans try and say. Go and spend 24 hours or so on Ubuntu's forums before you try and tell me it is stable.
Sometimes I wonder how IBM has managed to stay in business for 110 years; they really don't display sound intuition where identifying/backing winners in the marketplace is concerned.
Instead of Windows, they went with OS/2, which bombed, at least in mainstream terms. Now they're backing Linux, when the truly intelligent thing for them to do would be to get hold of FreeBSD and build their own offering on top of that, a la Apple. At the very least, they could go for LFS or something else with a cleaner base.
Ubuntu is the proverbial dog with fleas, of Linux distributions. Before all its' freetard fans start baying at me about how popular it is, my refutation for that is simple; Windows is very popular too. Your point? ;)
Linux in mainstream terms is a lost cause. Canonical might not be smart enough to have figured that out yet, but I would have expected IBM to be.
There needs to be a Godwin extension that refers to the first time Wine is used in a discussion about how Linux can replace Windows.
Microsoft's strong point has always been weird hardware, applications and development tools, since day 1 of Microsoft.
This is my sig.
I am pretty sure that the banks that rely on Linux on zSeries to manage billions of dollars of transactions per day would disagree with you. Is that not a valuable enough target for the "bad guys?"
Quite, but then again a breach on such a system would most likely be detected really quickly and all affected(?) transactions would be reversed. Not to mention that the security *around* all that is much tighter than your average system, heck, I doubt they're even directly connected to the internet, so while the target is certainly more valuable than others, the effort required to compromise it is simply too large to bother.
If you had the choice between having a near-100% chance of making $small_sum or an infinitesimal chance of making $arbitrarily_large_sum, what would you pick? The real money is where the average joe is, and we all know he doesn't use Linux. That's not to say that Linux sucks and Windows RULZ, but I hope you get my point.
Coworker of mine wanted to use Ubuntu as the main OS on his work machine. Installed it, got it up and running at home. Then when he brought it in and popped it into the docking station, it wouldn't work (X didn't seem to work, I didn't troubleshoot and neither did he) and so he just got a copy of Windows 7 and installed it instead.
Honestly in the business world you get to a point where your time is worth way too much to be wasting it on getting some product to work for you, when it should just work out of box without any special configuration. Ubuntu isn't there yet, not for business use anyway.
And also the cost as everybody has said is relative. Getting applications that work with the existing infrastructure costs money (integration and O&M) and training users on how to use new software costs money too. Last time I checked the help desk people call when there's a problem isn't a volunteer service.
but what you fail at is the fact that Linux has far more marketshare than Windows does.
It's fucking everywhere, on your phone, on your servers, in your routers, in your coffee maker, in your tv, etc. etc.
And it's using basically the same components as the desktop software.
WHen I bought the wife unit a Dell Mini 9 with Ubuntu pre-installed a few months ago, she looked at it and asked if I was joking.
She had seen/used my Mandriva w/ KDE4.2 laptop and even used the Puppy on the old desktop so she was willing to go for a Leenuxy thing.
She took one look at the ugly Gnome interface and asked why I had installed this ugly Windows 95 that was depressing.
I laughed so hard she thought I was laughing at her and not at the sad brown desktop and I almost slept on the sofa that night.
I installed something else the following day and got lucky that same night.
Damn you Ubuntu! Why you gotta be so ugly?
I might not have seen it, but I think Ubuntu's server area needs professional, detailed, Ubuntu-specific (if needed) DOCUMENTATION on everything an Ubuntu admin would need to use. http://doc.ubuntu.com/ has the most up-to-date version of the Ubuntu Server Guide, which is a decent start. It pales in comparison, however, to the FreeBSD handbook.
You know, there could be a hint in there somewhere. ;)
Just use FreeBSD. Trying to get anything meaningful done with Ubuntu is like playing with a Rubik's cube while having your head stuck with one of those steel amputation traps that Jigsaw uses in the Saw movies.
ummmm Apache IS the most targetted web server nowadays and has been for a number of years since MS got there act together in 2003. feel free to check secunia.org or any of the hackers page defamation tracking sites. linux/Apache IS the number one server target nowadays.
Wait, that's Microsoft FUD? I thought he was talking about Windows!
-- Tim Little
Instead of Windows, they went with OS/2, which bombed, at least in mainstream terms.
OS/2 Warp was by far a better operating system than Windows 3.x and Windows 95, but Windows then had an easier go of hardware compatibility because it could work with existing DOS based stuff, and OS/2 was a wholesale replacement. The problem with OS/2, was, that Windows NT was better than it.
This is my sig.
Is it just a coincidence, or is IBM displaying a new confidence now that the whole SCO v.s. Linux adventure is over?
Once there is some Open source software for linux that is made for eye doctors, let me know.
I think they're going for desktop here, seeing as how they're comparing it to win7.
I thought IBM was still pushing redhat for lower end servers, and AIX for big iron?
Sent from my PDP-11
The GGP made the statement that if Linux had the marketshare of Windows, it would get hacked more and the GP responded to that by saying that Linux has a huge share of servers and Linux still have the vast quantity of exploits Windows has. That is an irrefutable fact, FUD-boy. The GP didn't say a damn thing about IIS vs. Apache which incidentally runs on more than just Linux. The fact is, Linux has a tremendous share of servers and still has very little in the way of exploits against Linux itself, a fact that flies in the face of what the GGP says. Windows also has a huge share and has legion of vulnerabilities to the OS itself that have fuck-all to do with IIS.
In the wild lions, tigers and bears do not go after the most abundant prey. They go after the easiest prey.
I really don't understand what problem you could have with my above comment. I mean, it is simply statistics. If Ubuntu was the OS that everyone used, then people who wanted to do harm to others' computers would be finding every security hole they could find and utilize in order to accomplish their nefarious goals. Linux has holes. Deal with it. It doesn't have as many as Windows, but they are there. You are obviously a fanboy in the extreme. Have you noticed that many of your comments, just on this page, have been marked as Troll? Does this not tell you that maybe you are getting a bit out of hand with your zealotry? Listen, I've used Linux. I've used Windows. They both have their ups and downs. I seriously don't understand what, in my above comment, you had such a problem with.
I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but every URL on that site goes back to the same site, and I cant find any
other places with this news....does anyone have another URL that verifies this news?
Sure, let's talk about Apache then: Apache 2.2.x, 17 advisories, 28 vulnerabilities, 2 unpatched. IIS 7.x, 2 advisories, 2 vulnerabilities, all patched. Are you going to apologize now? I didn't think so.
Oh boy. You fail so much, it's not even funny.
What you mean are published vulnerabilities. What you are not mentioning are
- those than MS and the crackers know exactly about, and
- those that linger in the code, because nobody can check for them
Apache has more *known* vulnerabilities. This is something *completely different* from just more vulnerabilities.
With IIS, they are simply not known. And why not?
Because MS sued websites listing unofficial vulnerabilities into oblivion!
We sorted your argument out a looooong time ago.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
I 'fail'? I made a hypothesis, had several point out ways in which Linux had the marketshare in servers, and I 'fail'?
I was wrong. But, 'fail'? I truly hate how anytime someone is shown to be wrong in some way, even if they weren't establishing something as fact, if they were merely hypothesizing, they 'fail'. When I hear someone say, 'Fail', I picture some 13 or 14 year old boy who just got their first hair on their sac, and are trying to impress someone. The fact that you are using it while posting AC just makes me wonder more and more about whether or not you should be using words like 'fucking'. Your mother may need to wash your mouth out, little boy.
I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
Well, I stand corrected. The only thing I can think of to say that it isn't quite the same is the fact that servers generally have more in-depth security administrating than a home pc. I do, however, completely see your point about servers being a bigger target.
By the way, I appreciate the fact that you posted a well-thought out, polite rebuttal to my comment. So many on this site instantly go to accusations and threats when they read a point of view they do not like. Especially on this particular article's discussion.
I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
Thank god I started by making my business an all Linux / open source shop from the start. It is hard to put real numbers to it, but I suspect it has saved me an easy $30,000 a year in IT cost for a small shop of around 6 employees (it will scale to around 12-24 easily without much investment). Perhaps something around $100,000 is a fair number to date in savings over the last 4 years. A case could be made for saving a whole lot more, if you add up the cost of all the propitiatory equivalents we use in terms of databases, hosting, mail servers, open source web packages, and so on ( three linux servers of various sorts). Even the routers use open firmware. My total IT budget is around $2,000 a year ($4,000 for everything including bandwidth and phone lines).
I might add, I am not including my own labor in this number. Just the cost of the hardware and software. Honestly, I remember spending a whole lot more time screwing with viruse infested crashing messes at my last job that was all windows network (and that was not even my job), then I ever do maintaining my linux systems.
Because I run Linux, I have been able to run old computers in to the ground that I would have needed to replace at least once or twice by now, plus figure a copy of xp, vista, and now windows 7 in the time we have been open. The only reason I replace a PC is because the hardware fails. In fact, that is really the way it should be. Not because the software is more bloated. My oldest system still in everyday use is a PIII IBM T-22 notebook with 500 mb of ram, and half the office is still running single core Semprons just fine. The only thing making me considering upgrading currently is the possibility of energy savings with mini systems that use less juice and still get the job done. I am looking to downgrade basically. I am waiting for the industry to sort out the linux smart phone situation a bit more, and I will deploy linux phones to all my staff. Hell if that goes well, I will get rid of the cost of the frigen office all together. There, I found $2000 in cost conversion to linux. What it will cost me to break my office lease and sell the furniture.
Living in Chile
The MS machines I run are all virtual on Linux except for a gaming machine. I don't need Wine at all.
You need Windows then.
If I have an issue with any particular machine I can just revert to a clean VM, and for some I use snapshots
That's a good thing about VMs. However starting with Windows XP if not 2000, Windows needs to be activated. That specifically was one of the reasons I switched from MS Windows to first Linux then OS X.
Unless you think IBM is going to offer Ubuntu with WINE pre-installed??
Ubuntu can install WINE, it's in the repositories.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Apache 2.2.x, 17 advisories, 28 vulnerabilities, 2 unpatched. IIS 7.x, 2 advisories, 2 vulnerabilities, all patched. Are you going to apologize now?
Those numbers seem good for IIS, but here are some differences:
make that medium iron.
Sent from my PDP-11
If Windows 7 can run on a $70 Atom board, and run reasonably (using the 230 and 330, not the crappier laptop versions), then I fail to see why it costs $2k in hardware to switch.
I'm all for more Linux in the world, but let's be honest here. IBM has had a stake in migrating businesses to Linux for quite some time now. We have to follow the money when IBM says something, and realize that in many ways they are serving their own self-interests.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
IBM pushes a lot of stuff, really. They also push SUSE whenever it suits them, seems they're a bit cautious to push one vendor only.. Wonder why..
-- Linux user #369862
Well - I've been at this for awhile, and I have never seen this happen. When I first saw your insightfully post, it was marked +3 Insightful, and I added another insightful. Immediately after my moderation, it was +2 Insightful. Then after I posted the comment above, invalidating my moderation, it was 2. Now it is at 1. The ms shills must be jumping all over you, and I suppose you will end up at -1 flamebait. Sorry - I tried, and of course now I'm locked out of moderating in this topic.
That is of course mindless numerology.
What the actual problems are is the important thing. Otherwise an untested application run only by me that I can't bother recording the problems of wins every time - zero reported bugs! Reality is where applications that are actually peer reviewed and the problems fixed are the better ones. In the past IIS was very poorly tested, so while there were very few known problems a lot of unknown ones kept cropping up and bringing the thing down in a steaming heap. I have not touched it since because the same claims of perfection we hear now were made about their unusable early releases.
You clearly have never worked inside a large company, or if you did, you didn't pay attention. They have better things to do with their precious developer talent than recompile Firefox and Linux kernels all the time. Stuff like writing Visual Basic applications to assure that they will forever be tied to Windows, leaps immediately to mind. Oh, wait...
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Definitely not a Troll, unless Steve Ballmer has mod points, today.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
This is not off-topic.
I happened to notice today that Apple surpassed IBM in market capitalization (the total value of their stock) about a month ago. Apple has been on a tear for the last five years, growing about 24x. Even though IBM has a valued brand, a deep patent portfolio, committed customers and a broad portfolio they haven't kept up with that pace. I think that the last technology company Apple has to surpass in company value is Microsoft - and they're closing in. Apple's executing well not just in PC Hardware (where they've cornered the market on premium PCs at over 80%), but in media where they've pretty much taken all of the market for online distribution of music (and they're working on video), and in cellular phones where they're a serious threat to Blackberry. So Apple is not just in a wider base of markets than IBM and Microsoft - they're winning in all the markets they're in. They're executing well.
Microsoft wants to be Apple but Zune, Plays For Now and the Microsoft Danger FaceKick isn't going to gain them new customers in the new markets they need to win. The have a considerable negative partnering history to overcome. If Steve Jobs got a good stock incentive to come back and rescue Apple in 1996 he should die the world's richest man. Since I'm talking about how smart he is, here's a quote:
"There's an old Wayne Gretzky quote that I love. 'I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.' And we've always tried to do that at Apple. Since the very very beginning. And we always will."
IBM could do these things and the fine article is an indication that they're slowly interested in doing so. I wish them well - I prefer committed open source to Apple's exploitation of BSD's liberal terms, though I have to admit it's more of a personal bias than a difference in utility. I don't think IBM can pull this off without outside help. The Boys From Boca thing was, as far as I can tell from subsequent history, a one-off incident of accidental genius.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Linux has been at it for 15 years and (as indicated by an earlier slashdot story this very day) sound is still broken out of the box on Ubuntu.
And you still can't reliably cut and paste between apps.
Not exactly ready for prime time.
"The urge to fly from modern systems, instead of moving through them to even greater, fairer things is, I think, an indi
Apache 2.2 Release Date: December 01, 2005
IIS 7.x Release Date: Feb 27, 2008
Over two years more time to discover vulnerabilities.
I'll have more hope for Linux when there is a SIMPLE repository for software the average person can visit and download and install software.
ClickNRun does most of what you ask. Once the client is installed, not yet available for all Linux distros, you can browse for software, or search for something specific and once you find what you want to install click to install. The client will download and install the program. Uninstalling is just as easy. CNR has FOSS as well as commercial/proprietary software, showing on the front page now is Parallels and CrossOver. For game lovers there are more than 1000 games, digital photography has 530, just to check two categories.
Looking through the client list though the latest Ubuntu I see supported is 8.04.
P.S - I have not had a chance to weigh in on Windows 7 yet, but if Microsoft keeps continuing pushing out shit like Vista, it will be Linux against Mac, not Linux against Microsoft.
From what I've read Windows 7 is what Vista was supposed to be, a better Windows. It's supposed to be stable and is smaller. If it weren't for the fact that Microsoft requires Activation and spyware I'd be tempted to install it on my Mac and triple boot, run Snow Leopard, Ubuntu, and Windows 7.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
I've worked for nearly a decade in the POS/PMS industry.
The best of these solutions run on *NIX. For all sizes of business.
Here's a couple for you to consider in your next purchase (covering all major industries):
http://www.openbravo.com (Free and Open - Just pay for a support plan or pay as you go.)
http://www.activant.com
http://www.volantesystems.com
http://www.retalix.com
http://www.radiantsystems.com
http://www.maestropms.com
There's a TON more. Those are just the ones that came to mind right away.
NOTE: Not all *NIX POS solutions are open, in fact most are not, but in my support experience those that run on Unix and Linux have FAR less support issues than their MS counterparts.
Assume POS refers to "point of sale" the options are Adempiere, Compiere, TinyERP, and Postbooks, all of which are cross-platform and run on Linux as well as windows. Actually, I take that back, I only know for a fact the Postbooks provides POS, but ther other three ERP softwares might, too.
Lols IBM gives you a decent Ubuntu and the Shitacular Notes.
Of course, this says nothing about current vulnerabilities, just about how many have been found. True security is actually incredibly difficult to measure, as unpopular products may experience fewer attacks due to small profile rather than actual security (like Apple). Also, open source projects tend to catch problems at an astoundingly high rate, so they constantly have very long (and publicly accessible) bug lists, which scares some people. We have absolutely no idea how many vulnerabilities currently exist/are known about in IIS, as they keep quiet about them (for good reason, as their turnover on most bugs tends to be on the order of 30-60 days anyways).
I see what you tried to do there, but you're mostly just slinging numbers on top of your argument once someone yelled "Troll!".
That asde, to use that as an example is a bit disingenuous. You're presenting a serious edge case as the norm.
Sure it is for home use, but how many corporate users don't have admin rights to their desktop box at work?
With all the viruses and spyware crap going around if corporations allow users to install software instead of requiring IT to do it, they get what they deserve. Some places even block the use of USB flash drives and CDs.
Of course, this discussion is becoming more and more moot; with Vista, Windows assumes that any installer should be run with admin rights even if it would run OK without, which means that non-admins can't install stuff any more either. IMO this was a really stupid decision on MS's part, and it's the main problem I have with Vista's UAC.
You may not like it but MS finally got smart with that and followed OS X and other Unices like Linux by requiring admin privileges to install software.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Windows 7 also requires Activation. Though Microsoft has made 7 more stable, I also switched because I don't like being treated like a criminal or being spied on. Neither my Linux PC nor my MacBook Pro require it. Nor do they require it again when hardware has been added or swapped. And both my Linux PC and my MacBook Pro are easy to use and polished, though the Mac is better. Actually my Linux PC was easier to setup and use than the Windows PC it replaced, for most things.
Its getting there, but I do not recommend a linux box to my family.
A few months ago my brother-in-law asked me what I thought of the netbooks Target was carrying, Asus I think, with Linux. I told him as long as all he wanted to do was surf the web, check email, or work on plain documents they were fine. But if he wanted to do some intensive computations, he used to work as a day trader, they would not be good.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Ehhh. I like Ubuntu. I've used it as a home server for a while now, and it's worked fine as a web and file server, and easy to configure and install. Also, last time I tried to install FreeBSD 7.2 a checksummed CD failed to install due to some BIOS failure.
I think Ubuntu needs to focus on stability and integration on their LTS. It's a great desktop distro, and a pretty good, easy to use server.
No IBM is mainly a services company. That's why they sold their PC devision to a Chinese company. IBM does sell hardware still but it relies more on services and software.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Because MS sued websites listing unofficial vulnerabilities into oblivion!
Can you provide a reference for that?
Apache 2.2.x released Dec. 2005.
IIS 7.x released Feb. 2008.
IIS 7.x runs on exactly one OS (don't list multiple version of Windows as multiple OSes, Apache runs on them, too.)
I did the same analysis for older Apache 2.x versions and IIS6 before. Apache still loses, sorry.
Depends. There are a bunch of man pages on the grub commands, and there's /etc/grub.d/README and /etc/default/grub for the menu configuration. There's also Google.
http://upstart.ubuntu.com/
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEC
Apt supports file:/, so you can use that if it's just for personal use. Otherwise, you apparently just replicate the directory structure of an existing repository on your server and generate the necessary files. (Google produced many quick guides on how to do this.)
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/
https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/installation-guide/i386/preseed-using.html
All except GRUB and "building your own repository" were found in less than a minute on Google.
Remember that Ubuntu is mostly an amalgam of discrete software packages, all bundled up nice and neat. The best place to look for documentation is usually the origin.
Apache 2.2 Release Date: December 01, 2005
IIS 7.x Release Date: Feb 27, 2008
Apache 2.0 - released in April 2002 - 38 vulnerabilities.
IIS 6.x - released in April 2003 - 8 vulnerabilities.
Care to extrapolate?
$2,000 to upgrade any business to Windows 7 seems like a bargain. Sadly, in the end, you'll still be running Windows.
In my case there is POS software. Mine.
openbravo POS point-of-sale
It'll be a long time before I think the KDE4 desktop is as good as the KDE3.x was. I'll tell you how good *I* think it is. I switched to Gnome. (I considered a bunch of other choices, because I don't like Gnome, not compared to KDE3. But I like it compared to KDE4.)
Let the flame wars begin. Others will say the reverse. Personally, I haven't install Ubuntu on my Mac yet but when I do I'll install both Gnome and KDE then switch between them. I may stick with KDE after a while but I doubt I will use Gnome as the sole desktop. Why? Because I want to try Krita for photo editing, GIMP just doesn't cut it for what I want to do. I'd try CinePaint but Ubuntu dropped it.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
"The basic idea is to have an Linux OS, with IBM smart client applications called Open Collaboration Client Solution software (OCCS)(Lotus Symphony and Notes) for enterprise apps."
Good Lord, hear my prayers and keep our Linux free from the dreadful and ugly Notes monster...
A small and very insignificant *yawn*. I have never been so jaded about a new Windows version as i am now. Vista had some new bits in it that while they sucked was fun to discover and evaluate. Windows 7 is as interesting as any old servicepack or gray rock. No amount of paid journalism can change that once people start to use it themselves and discover what it really is. Linux isnt Microsofts biggest enemy, Microsoft is their own enemy and i cant think of a more dangerous adversary.
HTTP/1.1 400
... but a giant leap for mankind!
Here be signatures
Closed Sourced Software companies often provide a nice knowledge support site
Likewise, free software often provides a wiki knowledgebase.
and a tech support number you can call ASAP.
Telephone support tends to be priced out of the range of small business. Even if not, high-profile free software tends to have an official channel on freenode.
Oh really? Well, if it only costs $2,000 to move to Windows 7, for my 38k users, that's a bargain, really.
Really.
Copyright was supposed to make opening your creative work to the public profitable so that the public WOULD LEARN HOW from it.
So in return for the respect of your copyrights, when you're no longer wanting to make money from it, open the code.
If you love your program. Set them free.
I know that if one wants to be popular on slashdot, one must be a *nix fanboy.
Not true anymore. I see loads of pro-MS, anti-Linux comments (e.g. calling people freetards) getting modded up to +5 these days. MS has paid shills whose job is to do this sort of thing all day long.
Better give the Chrome OS for free. See more details http://sreesiv.blogspot.com/2009/10/if-my-guess-is-correct.html
Window 7 now become big thing .IBM getting involve in this matter . Result will come out is nothing
absolute acaiberry
The ms shills must be jumping all over you.
Damn right we are ! Would you rather spend 20 minutes composing a detailed response, or earn $100 in 30 seconds by simply down-modding a pro-Linux post on /. ?
If you want to find out how to sign up for the MS Professional Shill program, send me a PM. This could be your passport to financial freedom !
Squirrel!
LDAP.
Ever heard of it?
It does that.
It's why MS took it and wrapped MS protocols around it to create Active Directory.
Sheesh.
You ARE the incompetent admin.
Have a full installation of Window's go bad on you to the point of a reinstall (no backups, like most people). Say over time you have installed quite a few shareware apps that you have grown to love. Now reinstall windows and go to Google and start searching for all your favorite apps again. You have to wade through tons of shareware sites, full of adds, and text designed to mislead you to what you are downloading. And sometimes when you go to download things, they put download buttons for other software close to the download button of what you want in order to trick you into downloading something else.
I usually try and download from the author's website, but there is so much crap out there now, that sometimes it is quite a job actually finding the real author's web site.
Now do the exact same scenario, only with Linux. Sudo Apt-get install xmoto, and 10 minutes later you are done.
Linux is the crappy download/warez site killa!
Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
.... Lenovo
Market capitalisation is a result of several factors - the perceived cool factor of a share being one of them, and the need to include them in certain types of fund being another. The point is that a perceived decline in value can collapse the bubble very fast, as shares start to be sold which triggers off removal from portfolios and small investors getting out.
All this is very basic finance 101 but is widely misunderstood. If you are in for the long term (which is the least risky way of making a profit) you need to look at the customer base and the value added. Apple has many customers for its newer products which are on phone company contracts, and it does not have the majority of the smartphone market. It has forced Nokia to look at its product range again, it has stimulated the development of Maemo, Moblin, Chrome and Ubuntu Netbook. The competition is coalescing around Linux with value added in the front ends. Apple has a strong installed base but its market cap is based on a belief that it is the wave of the future. A change in perception, a major provider coming out with a competitive iPhone replacement (Verizon/Pre?) could depress Apple shares overnight.
IBM, like Rolls-Royce, is rather invisible to the public. It has no real brand image. But, like Rolls-Royce, it has stackloads of bought in installed base who can't just replace their phone when the contract ends, or buy a new notebook computer.
I'm reminded of someone at Rolls-Royce commenting on their share price that "people don't take into account that if we never sold another product, starting tomorrow, we would still be around in 60 years servicing our installations. And many of our customers are Governments".
Apple may overtake IBM in the long term. But currently this is far from evident, and market cap is not a useful measurement.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
> > Using the wrong OS can get a company shut down and the officers
> > of the company put in jail.
> Ahhhh, the sweet sweet smell of Microsoft FUD.
What? I thought he was talking about the dangers of a BSA raid happening when a company isn't able to accurately keep track of Microsoft Windows licenses?
c.
Log in or piss off.
With all the ridicule that "Linux on the Desktop" has gotten over the years, I still feel that linux going mainstream is inevitable. I notice with a lot of things, I early-adopt and a surprising number of them go mainstream. Whether it is music, software, ways of doing things, interests, games... I often find that I get involved with something because something about it is really cool, or works really well (mostly because I obsessively research and try a lot of things). Several years later, I find that whatever it is I have ultimately decided on doing/using/enjoying has gone mainstream, or at least grown hugely. It seems to happen unnervingly often, to the point where I really should start to invest in these things when an opportunity presents itself - I'm sure on balance it would be financially rewarding for me to do so. Does anyone else here look back on their life and see the consistency with which they have backed such "winners"?
To bring it back to the topic, I notice this with Ubuntu - it really has a lot going for it. So much about it just does what I want and surprises me in a good way. The value proposition is hard to beat. If I was starting a business, I'd just put the foot down and say "use it or get another job". You'd lower your costs, increase your control, and by donating you'd have a good chance of getting features of immediate value to your business - something far less likely with something closed source, and also more likely to come with perpetual strings attached.
If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
I just went to IBM's website, which links to Lenovo. Lenovo still recommends Windows 7.
What does this mean?
and u r ignoring the costs of retraining when m$ changes word's menus, 4 example...never underestimate the mindlessness of micro$erfs;-)
$2K is the cost of deployment, helpdesk calls, user confusion, lost proficiency, annoyance factor and other various sundry of items.
$2K IMO is a low ball, especially since many companies are going to be coming from WinXP or Earlier (many still use Win2K and Win9X).
This means about 10+ hours (not at employee pay rates, but fully realized Employee cost rates) per machine/employee, plus the re-training syndrome due to "change".
So, remember you FANBOIs (including Fan boys and Fan girls), just because its the newest version of Windows, doesn't mean its easy. Its not for 80% of the embedded workforce using the machines. Change a menu or how its presented, or change a location or add new entry that replaces another (with same functionality but different name) or a different look of the interface... and the helpdesk lights up. I've seen it happen when we change to an updated widget that displays the EXACT SAME INFO in the same dialog, but now that it uses your "system color theme" rather than our color scheme... users get confused, they don't need/want change. They do the same job day in day out.
You'll have complaining at the drinking fountain or browsing while in queue... (lost time and productivity not withstanding)
Think a bit more broadly and you'll see the whole picture.
greg, REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!
Quasar?
http://linuxcanada.com/pos.shtml
Windows is not the answer.
Windows is the question.
The answer is "NO."
"Coworker of mine wanted to use Ubuntu as the main OS on his work machine. Installed it, got it up and running at home. Then when he brought it in and popped it into the docking station, it wouldn't work (X didn't seem to work, I didn't troubleshoot and neither did he) and so he just got a copy of Windows 7 and installed it instead"
Curiously enough there are references to this on the Ubuntu mailing list
"Linux has been at it for 15 years and .. sound is still broken out of the box on Ubuntu .. Not exactly ready for prime time"
I'm watching streaming media right now and the sound plays no problem. I've never had problems getting sound working 'out of the box'. If Ubuntu is 'Not exactly ready for prime time', then why is IBM involving itself in a project with Canonical? IBM not exactly known for neglecting the purpose of making money.
' IBM and Canonical are now announcing the launch of Linux and cloud-based desktop software in the U.S'
That one day blue and brown desktops will walk hand in hand....
If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.
Hah, that's what I thought, too.
Hypotheticals don't cut it. I'd like to hear an example of a single feature in Office that is so critical as to make a spreadsheet not work at all, which isn't supported in Open Office.
The most common objections I hear to Open Office are that it doesn't look the same and that it doesn't have wizards. The more prevalent problems I encounter are people trying to open Office 2007 documents on Windows 2003. They usually don't want to spend a boatload of money just to be able to open documents from work while they're at home. I usually end up showing them how to open the documents at work and "save as...", though many of them have opted to just get OO because it gets the job done even if it's not as pretty.
Gnome that is magically identical to XP
The only issue is that he is made so good that officially he can get sued for trademark violation or some such IP law. You can always make a version that has no trademarks and looks exactly like XP desktop.
Not considering that Windows 7 looks more like Linux desktops nowadays.
what's POSIX standard for?
what's ugo? rwx?
this is +5 Funny
With problems. As I just stated in another post, oops here's the right post, I am willing to try KDE. Who knows, right now I don't, but I may like KDE more than Gnome.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
As do all OSes and other software.
I am sure that you or I could get it up and running in less than 30 minutes doing pretty much whatever we need it to.
Thanks for the confidence but I know Windows, and now OS X, more but there's plenty I'm not knowledgeable about with either one.
What about all the non-technical people? For them doing anything other than inserting an install CD, waiting for Auto-Play to start the installation wizard, is probably pretty difficult.
I agree however Linux is getting easier and easier to install and use software. A big problem is buying that game or productivity disk at the store. I haven't seen many stores, even chain stores, that carry much Mac software either. Many people's perception is that Microsoft is the software universe.
As for installing software in Linux, earlier I posted ClickNRun. With the client software installed, though not available for all Linux distros, all it takes to install software is access to that site and a click. Say Opera, just click on the Install button. CNR will download and install Opera. It's just as easy to uninstall software.
Given all that I can only conclude that IBM is not really targeting the whole market but a small portion of it. The poster I replied to stated this was a way to shut Microsoft out the market completely, and I just don't see how it would have that effect.
I totally agree. I've seen different theories why IBM is teaming with Ubuntu, but most are wrong. One poster said it was to sell hardware, but IBM sold the PC hardware part to a Chinese company, Levono. IBM is moving away from hardware to become a services business, they've been working on that for years. Company X wants a computer system, IBM will analyze their needs and put together a system, hardware AND software. Another company needs software to do X and IBM will put a package together.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
What happened to the much hyped Munich desktop conversion from windows? About 5 years ago?
I'm confused. Are you talking about computers or Obamacare. It sounds like an Apocalypse either way.
I don't know how it is now, but I checked into a Dell netbook with Ubuntu pre-installed. It costs the same as getting a Windows license with the machine.
That's BS! Not what you say but Dell selling netbooks with Ubuntu for the same price as netbooks with Windows. With the same configurations, maybe there's a difference in them, the Ubuntu netbook should be cheaper. Wait,... Dell shows mini netbooks, what's that?, with Windows XP Home Edition or Ubuntu Linux for the same price. Now if XP doesn't require Activation, I'd get one with XP. Actually I'd try to get both.
On another page though Dell shows a netbook with either Ubuntu or XP or Vista. With Ubuntu installed it's $30 cheaper.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
All this is very basic finance 101 but is widely misunderstood.
This is very basic finance 101 and is widely understood: if your retirement fund doesn't see returns, you will never be able to retire because inflation eats your early contributions.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Viewtouch is a piece of garbage. There is lots of crappy, crappy POS software for *nix, but none that is actually functional. Viewtouch isn't even a complete product. You are uninformed.
I don't respond to AC's.
Watch out, he'll call you a 'fanboi' next. Or a shill. Those are good counter-arguments around here, right?
Using the wrong OS can get a company shut down
You're right: the London Stock Exchange had a near-death experience using Windows for its trading platform. They had to temporarily shut down when it seized up. That's why they decided to change to a faster and cheaper Linux-based trading platform.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
prefer it
Citation needed.
I bet people stay with Windows because they don't know of an alternative, they think they need it, or because they would rather work with the devil they know than the one they don't know. People ask what Linux is. Or if Macs can run Windows, asked why they need Windows and they can't give an answer other than "because my software needs it". Ask them what they want to do, specific tasks not applications and if they don't stammer or hum you might get write. There are word processors that let you do that on Linux and Macs in OS X. They need a spread sheet to do calculations, same there. The same applies to everything MS Office does. The London Stock Exchange Rejects .NET For Open Source. For every proprietary app that runs only in Windows, except in-house software, I bet there's software available that can do it on Linux and or OS X.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Calc is the Hyundai of spreadsheets. Works fine for ma and pa, but it sucks for anything significantly complicated.
As someone above posted, if you have to do complicated spreadsheets why not use Mathematica or Matlab? Financial calculations can be pretty complicated yet with a quick Google I found this: Documentation/How Tos/Calc: Derivation of Financial Formulas.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
1. Executives should ALWAYS be last in line for any forced migration like that... The right way to do it is:
...
...
B - staged rollout, starting with bottom teir employees in batches, gradually progressing up the organizational chart.
So obviously the accounting department would be transitioned first
You, and most others may not think of the accounting department as being important but they are vary important, and they should not be the testers of new systems.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
MS is anti-Linux otherwise they'd shut up and stop spreading FUD. If they were pro Linux MS would release Office for Linux.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Ubuntu is nowhere near ready for prime time
Ubuntu is already being used by businesses.
Go and spend 24 hours or so on Ubuntu's forums before you try and tell me it is stable.
Because I plan on installing Ubuntu on my Mac I have spent more than 100 hours in the the Ubuntu forums, photo.net, and elsewhere. In all this tyme I haven't run into any complaints about Ubuntu not being stable. I have however run into incompatibilities, and the fixes for them. Then again maybe it's just because of what I'm looking for, how to install Ubuntu on my Mac. I've been researching how to before I do it so I can make a plan which includes any problems that may come up.
Instead of Windows, they went with OS/2, which bombed, at least in mainstream terms.
It wasn't IBM's bomb. IBM and MS was working on OS/2 together when MS pulled out and did Windows instead.
Ubuntu is the proverbial dog with fleas, of Linux distributions.
Then why has Ubuntu been the most popular Linux distro this past year? Of course that link is just for those who visit Distro Watch. Starry Hope asks Ubuntu: Still Popular? Using metrics from various sites it concludes Ubuntu is still popular.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
There is no such thing as "the Linux Desktop Environment".
Did Word push compeating product out because it was better or because it came bundled with PCs? I bet it's the later.
Not really. Microsoft bundled MS DOS and Windows 3.x with PCs, but never, to my knowledge and memory, bundled Word 6.0 or Excel. It started happening, I think, only after Office 97 was built and MS's OEM sales machine spun up.
After spending about 1/2 hour searching I didn't find a reference to when MS started offering application bundles with hardware and I don't know when they did.
Until then PC manufacturers didn't care about the software; I don't even remember if they installed any OS on the HDD or not.
DOS did come installed on new PCs. Compaq, IBM, and Zenith (yes Zenith used to make PCs. Apparently they still do in India, they're sold all over the world except Canada and the US), along with other OEMs sold PCs with the OS already installed.
Wikipedia says that Word won because it was better. I used WordPerfect myself at that time, and I must say that WP was not as slick as Word.
Back then I don't recall what I was using, but I started with MacWrite. DOS didn't have anything like it.
Word is still with us; WordPerfect, on the other hand, not so much
It only has a small market but WordPerfect is still with us, In April 2008 Corel released their "WordPerfect Office X4 office suite containing the new X4 version of WordPerfect which includes support for PDF, OpenDocument and Office Open XML."
Actually I bet if I look the only suite the major OEMs will bundle with Windows PCs is MS Office.
No, actually there is another office suite called Microsoft Works
Okay, I phrased it wrong. Perhaps I would of been closer if I said OEMs would only bundle MS office suits, I hadn't thought of MS Works.
most people that buy computers at Fry's don't need MS Office anyway
There is no Fry's near me, that I know of, but stores around here that sell PCs sell they with bundles. Fry's has general electronics too doesn't it? The place I loved going to, when I lived near there, was Skycraft Parts and Surplus. If you're a hobbyist and want to build something electrical or electronic if they didn't have the part you'd have to order it. And it wasn't just electrical and electronic parts but military surplus as well, even backpacks, empty ammo boxes, and tents as well as marine equipment.
It is common, though, to find trial versions of Office
Yea, my Mac came with a trial-ware version of MS Office, 2007 I think.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?