Copying a 4 gig file from local disk onto the network pretty much destroyed the machine's interactive performance to the extent that I couldn't tell if I was trying to browse a folder with no files, or a folder full of files which simply hadn't appeared yet.
Sorry, I don't experience that on XP. Are you sure you aren't running some badly made anti-virus/firewall software?
And have Microsoft replaced that dumb-as-a-rock CMD.EXE with a real shell yet? Something which provides command and pathname completion, at least?
CMD.exe already provides path and filename completion.
When copying a 2 gig file from local disk to local disk, I swear the disk head was thrashing back and forth and it took about 10 times longer on Windows than Linux. How much data is the OS buffering before causing a head seek back to write? Doesn't seem like much!
I don't notice THAT much of a delay on Windows. Admittedly, it is a bit slower than Linux at copying files locally -- But I think that's a filesystem issue more than anything.
It definitely does allow you to specify a set of applications which may be run, for any given user or group of users.
Last time I tried, it didn't really have a way to let you to block unknown applications. Does it or doesn't it?
If I somehow manage to get a.app folder on the system, can I execute it, yes or no?
"Outdoing Linux" is subjective... Performance aside
Performance and reliability is the most important at the moment
the setup
Such as? I certainly didn't notice differences when having to setup things like Samba.
and maintenance experience
You mean like the times on OS X, where you run into a problem and there is no information anywhere what went wrong, nothing meaningful is even outputted into logs, and the great solution is reinstalling OS X, hoping it will work again (and it usually does).
with every facet of OS X Server DEFINITELY outdoes Linux.
Sorry, I have to disagree with your statements -- my past experience has told me otherwise.
It's in the Workgroup Manager application, in the Preferences section for any given group or user. Description and screenshot.
I saw nothing about maintaining a whitelist of applications that can only be ran on the system there. Even in the snapshots.
The only thing I read there that could even hint it on that page was "control access to hardware, software and network resources.", but I've played with previous versions and it was about file permissions on apps that were managed already by the management system.
It was not stopping anyone from some how managing to get a.app folder onto the system some how and then simply executing it.
It definitely is much better now than even one major version ago. 10.5 server should also offer some leaps forward for performance in this regard.
Still needs to out do the current Linux systems by a large margin before the switch would be considered (has it even passed Linux running on the same hardware yet?).
Not entirely true. They are selling you a machine a radically discounted price for a specific use, gaming.
And they still lock the hardware from letting you use it the way you please
They aren't selling a general use computer.
And? It's still your hardware.
They are ineffect giving you a gaming machine at a bargin price so they limit what you are permitted to do with it to avoid competing with themselves.
Bargain? I can't afford it. Sorry, I have to disagree.
If most people tried to mod out their game stations to turn them into desktops as well then it could potentially cut into their desktop business and force them to charge full price for the game boxes making the gaming machine unsellable.
I thought most people were too 'stupid' to even try another OS other than the one their machine came with and now you're trying to claim they majority could turn their game console into a desktop..... Hahahahahaha.
The machines just aren't suitable for a desktop.
Yeah, I know. I saw a Dell ad some time ago, this guy wanted to use the machine for 'work' and 'webbrowsing', the phone representative recommended he use a Core duo 2 with 1GB of RAM that comes with Windows XP...
Seems the requirements for Internet Explorer and running Microsoft Office decently are getting a little insane to me... I'd hate to think what they would recommend for Skype.
You are so completely incorrect about this. You can block non-authorized applications (centrally, based on MAC addres, user ID, group ID, etc etc), and have been able to for years using workgroup manager under OS X server.
Uh... I want to block applications that for example, aren't signed, or how about, I only want my white listed applications listed in group policies to run. Where is that functionality?
File permissions? Every OS has that, I'm not asking for that.
Roaming profiles under OSX works brilliantly, and yes it does cache on the local host.
Perhaps it's different now, I admit I haven't even bothered trying to integrate OS X within the past year (since it's not needed). However, it certainly wasn't caching when I tried it last.
What type of network do you run?? are you still on coax??? the load caused on any modern network for remote homeDirs is perfectly acceptable.
The problem is the fact we can't bog down the fileservers with thousands and thousands of constant active connections without suffering performance issues (file servers running SuSE Linux with Samba integrated into the domain -- I was not impressed with OS X XServe performance for doing this task).
You can also choose to boot disklessly with Netboot and acheive all sorts of usefull administrative tasks. I could go on.
Netboot at the work place was only used for installing a imaged Windows/Linux OS under several minutes.
You slag off OpenDirectory, have you actually used it?
Yes, I have used OpenDirectory, it's pretty nice with Novell's groupware software. It's perfectly alright for managing windows systems, however it does not give adequate control over OS X systems.
Remeber the M$ attack on Kerberos?
I certainly don't think Microsoft is holy and good, stop making assumptions.
And you bitch about vendor-lock in... You are living it.
At home my main systems run Linux.
Use Amerok.. lol. Go ahead and prefer Windows over OS X
It's spelt Amarok, and I don't think it runs on Windows natively yet. I prefer Windows over OS X, and Linux over Windows depending on the situation.
it's obviously out of ignorance and fear, not objective assesment.
Yeah, because the software not being available on OS as I've mentioned several times already has nothing todo with it, or how the management on OS X is less that adequate or how few people in this nation even know what a Apple computer is or the need to train staff and users on another OS that doesn't offer similar UI interaction (at least with Linux you can get KDE to behave and look like Windows) wouldn't be a fair assessment.
Apple has shown that properly written DRM can have a minimal impact on the "user experience". Just because the DRM mechanism used by BitTorrent sucks, I guess the naysayers feel the urge to exclaim, "It was the DRM" (visions of MP and Death with outstretched fingers).
I was sent a gift certificate for the iTunes store. I use Linux, I can't redeem the certificate. You call that "minimal impact"? Some people just wasted quite a bit of money on a useless certificate.
Unfortunately the person that sent it to me didn't even know about DRM (they know about Linux though).
Sorry, 'proper' DRM is interoperable DRM that doesn't infringe on fair rights.
Want to talk about properly written DRM from Apple? I know people who couldn't play older DRM songs they bought from iTunes after they upgraded iTunes. Is that proper?
Not sure why you'd expect it to. That's not the Mac version; why would it be aware of the Mac clipboard?
X11 should support the clipboard. X11 applications shouldn't have to be aware, if the clipboard works fine (with X11) on Windows, Linux, Solaris etc, I don't see what the problem with OS X supporting it is.
Install OO's version for the Mac, use Apple-C and Apple-V and then it'll work - as I said, it works here and exactly as I described it, no workarounds whatsoever.
How do you know that it's X11 supporting it then and not OOo using workaround with Aqua functions for the clipboard then (besides it would drive me mad to start OOo locally on the Mac, being that the machine is so slow)?
As far as I know, there isn't any. Inasmuch as it is simply a substitute for file movement and access, you'll just have to grit your teeth and use the file dialogs. Incomprehensible as it may be, it turns out that through a freak of coincidence, this is a fully functional means of managing files and documents.
I have better things todo than to work around a OS's inefficiencies when I need to get work done.
Just get a Mac! Seriously! I'm not trying to troll or start a flamefest here, but the Mac user experience on a laptop (bold for all you would-be flamers out there) is light years ahead of Linux or Windows.
OS X doesn't run the software I like or use, not good enough.
Let's face it, Linux laptop support has never been a top priority.
Has been for vendors like IBM, System76, Lenovo.
I've never had a laptop that was perfectly stable, power management worked 100% of the time, and always came out of hibernate and suspend, all the buttons worked, the screen never went funny, got the stated battery life
I found Dell was more expensive when I maxed the specs on system76 for Serval line (I did this not so long when I was price checking) and compared the prices on a Dell equivalent Linux laptop from http://www.dell.com/linux .
If System76 could deliver to Europe, I would of got one, unfortunately for now I'm just going to stick with my decaying hardware until I find something more suitable.
Most people here don't even know of Dell or Apple. Nevermind the difficulty of finding such hardware in a shop, restaurant, bank, professional office, hospital, school, library or public facility of any kind within the city of Szczecin (a main city -- there are very few places you can find them).
If I copy in Aqua, then click in xclipboard, then click in my target X11 app, I can paste there. This is pretty low impact for getting things done.
...
More specifically, I just went into OO (without xclipboard running), typed a sentence, selected a couple of words, pressed Apple-C, switched to TextEdit (an Aqua app) and pressed Apple-V, and there it was.
Tried OO running over SSH to my linux box and attempted to copy/paste, didn't work.
The clipboard works.
Not from what I can see.
You just have to learn how these two systems interact, and we're talking very simple issues.
Never had to worry about the clipboard on Windows or Linux...
Wheres my drag and drop support on OS X's X11 by the way?
Lost productivity of users, due to them dealing with Windows issues, or security issues.
I can't remember the last time users were interrupted from using their computer due to a windows issue or security issue.... So, no, not really high up on my list.
Lost productivity of technical staff, due to them dealing with Windows issues
Such as?
security issues
I don't really understand how something like a Mac solves hunting for things like rogue wireless access points
black tuesday patching cycles, etc.
Believe it or not, technical staff should test patches anyway before deploying them, no matter what OS is used, be it OS X, Linux etc. You still have to keep a system patched and upto date anyway.
I am, on Windows I can block non authorized applications from being ran, controlled all centrally from the domain controllers, I haven't seen a way to prevent that under OS X.
Open Directory certainly is nothing compared to Win2k/2k3/XP domain system, all it can really use it authenticate against a domain and use that for services. There is no real central management with that (oh look! I can restrict some logins and preinstall some applications -- not good enough). OS X's workgroup management still doesn't offer even a equivalent to roaming profiles (no Network Home Directories is not good enough, that would bring the network down to a slow crawl since it isn't caching files locally and only synchronizing when it needs to).
You may not have a problem with Windows security issues (though I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe)
What security issues are you referring to. The systems are quite locked down, even if a worm managed to get on the network, due to our strict security policies, it would be difficult for it to even 'execute' if it managed to get on the system. Although I haven't seen a worm on a network since 2002 (and even then it was just a rogue laptop that had no effect on the fully upto date systems).
but most businesses that run Windows do.
Perhaps, but then again most of the business software doesn't run on other OSes in the first place -- so there is simply no choice anyway. If there was, I would still choose Windows over OS X, not only despite of some of it's technological limitations but also most people don't even know what a Apple computer is here, nevermind training staff.
although there IS a benefit to vendor lock-in, in that the vendor (Apple) can more efficiently deal with hardware and software issues you have, precisely due to their tight control over everything.
The support level enterprises require from other vendors like Dell, IBM is not available on Apple, still not a option even if that statement were true.
since once you start using Mac OS, you want MORE of the same
I actually find OS X annoying. I don't like anti-aliasing, I don't like shadows, I don't like 'zoom'. Disabling the first two requires hackish utilities that just can't disable them all. The latter, it's just the design of OS X doesn't work for me personally.
itunes media
I found it more primitive than Amarok, and I don't buy DRM
ipod
Not really interested in hardware that doesn't let me simply copy music easily to it (drop it on a folder in the drive or something).
I am ignoring things like outlook and the other staples, Most businesses live for the vertical apps for their industry. Engineering needs Autocad, Marketing needs their apps, CableTv needs their special CableTv apps. etc...
You also ignored OS issues, like you can't manage OS X systems as well from centralized system like 'Active Directory' (setting security policies on all the systems -- including what applications may run, ship out software installations and upgrades) like you can with Windows (infact the support is barely there for OS X).
When they think of Macs, they think of MacOS instead of OS X.
In my case, it really is OS X.
What is the point in using OS X? What advantages does it give us over Windows?
Evaluating getting Macs:
Certainly no reason todo with better protection -- We don't have a problem with viruses, worms etc. on the network, this is a corporate network, not a badly maintained school network.
The options for choosing Apple hardware for our desktops isn't that great.
There is no real corporate/business plans (like from IBM/Dell) be offered from Apple.
There is no OS X business software we need.
No real managed control over OS X (Active directory policies)
Will require hiring new staff or training existing staff to use it.
Doesn't seem to be saving any money
Not moving us away from current vendor lock-ins we have, instead it's applying more (OS X and OS X applications lock you into a specific hardware vendor).
... Sorry, I really can't think of any reasons why a corporation would need OS X in the first place, nevermind the fact it seems to be lacking.
...ah, Parents be responsible for your kids. Its not the technology thats the problem.
Only solution that I think could work 100% is: "Sorry, you're not a allowed a computer nor a... Wii."
Know what the hell your kids are doing,
I some how doubt that's easy when parents can't even be with their kids all day, it's also damaging if they are. There is only one way to really/KNOW/ what's going on.
know what the people they hang out with are doing
It can be difficult with today's youth.. Everything seems to be a secret from their parents because they know their parents wouldn't approve.
know what the families of the people they hang out with are doing.
Often I've found families are very responsible, but the kids certainly don't reflect the rest of the family.
One thing these organizations never seem to talk about is how parents should take some responsibility of their own and monitor what their children do.
It's been tried, but the parents respond with "I don't know anything about computers, why are you doing this!? I just want to take care of my kids!!!!"
What if they actually sat down and talked to their kids about what they can and can't do while on the internet.
You can explain the danger of someone kidnapping you, how do you explain not to look for porn to someone who doesn't know about the birds and the bees. What danger can be perceived to the child who even knows about the birds and the bees for looking at porn?
If they would actually take an active role in raising their children they will find that there are many options for filtering what can be accessed on the internet.
"I don't know anything about computers."
Many parents seem to be really technophobic from what I've seen.
Also, if they don't want their kids to play violent games, then don't buy the games for them.
Kids can pirate, kids can be lent the game from other kids, kids can buy violent games from shops (they may do it online if they can't do it offline).
If I learned OpenOffice at school, I wouldn't have learned about Excel's massive function library, and how to use it properly. And now that Office is in its '07 phase and has left OpenOffice behind in the UI front, they're growing more and more apart than together.
We pretty much only learned about spreadsheet formulas where I was, and that is very interchangeable between Excel and OO.o.
As for differences, I don't really see the ribbon as such a major design change, although I do find it annoying that Microsoft decided to use a non-standard UI control.
I really don't see why kids should be at the short-end of trying to right perceived wrongs that have nothing to do with them. Teaching kids what they "should" know, as opposed to what they need to know is retarded.
I think children should be taught to learn and use any software they're confronted with rather than learn a specific suite of software. There are those who learned word perfect, but when they got out of school, companies were using Microsoft office.
Coming out of school knowing all there is to know about Open Office, then being put in front of your first work computer and it's running Microsoft Office, you'd be fucked.
I can pretty much apply everything I was taught in highschool for Microsoft Office to OpenOffice and vice versa. I don't really agree that you're "fucked". They teach you so little that it applies pretty much to both software suites.
Schools shouldn't be about ideology, but preparation.
No, that sounds more like university to me, high schools seem to be focused on teaching you a lot of irrelevant rubbish. They teach more theory than practical usage (even in computers, you learn about things like binary, rather than how to use a computer effectively).
Slashdot Mirror
I thought you could check windows live mail from Safari?
If I somehow manage to get a
The only thing I read there that could even hint it on that page was "control access to hardware, software and network resources.", but I've played with previous versions and it was about file permissions on apps that were managed already by the management system.
It was not stopping anyone from some how managing to get a
Seems the requirements for Internet Explorer and running Microsoft Office decently are getting a little insane to me... I'd hate to think what they would recommend for Skype.
File permissions? Every OS has that, I'm not asking for that.Perhaps it's different now, I admit I haven't even bothered trying to integrate OS X within the past year (since it's not needed). However, it certainly wasn't caching when I tried it last.The problem is the fact we can't bog down the fileservers with thousands and thousands of constant active connections without suffering performance issues (file servers running SuSE Linux with Samba integrated into the domain -- I was not impressed with OS X XServe performance for doing this task).Netboot at the work place was only used for installing a imaged Windows/Linux OS under several minutes.Yes, I have used OpenDirectory, it's pretty nice with Novell's groupware software. It's perfectly alright for managing windows systems, however it does not give adequate control over OS X systems.I certainly don't think Microsoft is holy and good, stop making assumptions.At home my main systems run Linux.It's spelt Amarok, and I don't think it runs on Windows natively yet. I prefer Windows over OS X, and Linux over Windows depending on the situation.Yeah, because the software not being available on OS as I've mentioned several times already has nothing todo with it, or how the management on OS X is less that adequate or how few people in this nation even know what a Apple computer is or the need to train staff and users on another OS that doesn't offer similar UI interaction (at least with Linux you can get KDE to behave and look like Windows) wouldn't be a fair assessment.
Unfortunately the person that sent it to me didn't even know about DRM (they know about Linux though).
Sorry, 'proper' DRM is interoperable DRM that doesn't infringe on fair rights.
Want to talk about properly written DRM from Apple? I know people who couldn't play older DRM songs they bought from iTunes after they upgraded iTunes. Is that proper?
I also just said right there the design of OS X doesn't work for me personally too.
If System76 could deliver to Europe, I would of got one, unfortunately for now I'm just going to stick with my decaying hardware until I find something more suitable.
Most people here don't even know of Dell or Apple. Nevermind the difficulty of finding such hardware in a shop, restaurant, bank, professional office, hospital, school, library or public facility of any kind within the city of Szczecin (a main city -- there are very few places you can find them).
Wheres my drag and drop support on OS X's X11 by the way?
Open Directory certainly is nothing compared to Win2k/2k3/XP domain system, all it can really use it authenticate against a domain and use that for services. There is no real central management with that (oh look! I can restrict some logins and preinstall some applications -- not good enough). OS X's workgroup management still doesn't offer even a equivalent to roaming profiles (no Network Home Directories is not good enough, that would bring the network down to a slow crawl since it isn't caching files locally and only synchronizing when it needs to).What security issues are you referring to. The systems are quite locked down, even if a worm managed to get on the network, due to our strict security policies, it would be difficult for it to even 'execute' if it managed to get on the system. Although I haven't seen a worm on a network since 2002 (and even then it was just a rogue laptop that had no effect on the fully upto date systems).Perhaps, but then again most of the business software doesn't run on other OSes in the first place -- so there is simply no choice anyway. If there was, I would still choose Windows over OS X, not only despite of some of it's technological limitations but also most people don't even know what a Apple computer is here, nevermind training staff.The support level enterprises require from other vendors like Dell, IBM is not available on Apple, still not a option even if that statement were true.I actually find OS X annoying. I don't like anti-aliasing, I don't like shadows, I don't like 'zoom'. Disabling the first two requires hackish utilities that just can't disable them all. The latter, it's just the design of OS X doesn't work for me personally.I found it more primitive than Amarok, and I don't buy DRMNot really interested in hardware that doesn't let me simply copy music easily to it (drop it on a folder in the drive or something).Not seen it advertised here, whatever it is.USA only.
Being how OS X's x11 server can't copy/paste between Aqua, not even do drag and drop...
Note: I can do this with free X servers available on Windows...
What is the point in using OS X? What advantages does it give us over Windows?
Evaluating getting Macs:
- Certainly no reason todo with better protection -- We don't have a problem with viruses, worms etc. on the network, this is a corporate network, not a badly maintained school network.
- The options for choosing Apple hardware for our desktops isn't that great.
- There is no real corporate/business plans (like from IBM/Dell) be offered from Apple.
- There is no OS X business software we need.
- No real managed control over OS X (Active directory policies)
- Will require hiring new staff or training existing staff to use it.
- Doesn't seem to be saving any money
- Not moving us away from current vendor lock-ins we have, instead it's applying more (OS X and OS X applications lock you into a specific hardware vendor).
... Sorry, I really can't think of any reasons why a corporation would need OS X in the first place, nevermind the fact it seems to be lacking."Sorry, you're not a allowed a computer nor a... Wii."I some how doubt that's easy when parents can't even be with their kids all day, it's also damaging if they are. There is only one way to really
FYI: I am not a parent.
Many parents seem to be really technophobic from what I've seen.Kids can pirate, kids can be lent the game from other kids, kids can buy violent games from shops (they may do it online if they can't do it offline).
The problem is, there is no solution.
FYI: I am not parent.
As for differences, I don't really see the ribbon as such a major design change, although I do find it annoying that Microsoft decided to use a non-standard UI control.I think children should be taught to learn and use any software they're confronted with rather than learn a specific suite of software. There are those who learned word perfect, but when they got out of school, companies were using Microsoft office.