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Windows Genuine Advantage Gets More Lenient
Troglodyte writes in with word that Microsoft is revamping its Windows Genuine Advantage program so that it labels fewer users pirates. WGA now has a third category besides "genuine and "not genuine," called "not sure." Quoting: "[I]t's quite obvious what is going on here: Microsoft has added 'not sure' as a way of cutting down on the number of false positives associated with WGA. As many as one in five PCs were failing WGA checks, but this new setting should both reduce this and give Microsoft the chance to investigate further the kinds of things that are landing folks in the 'not sure' category."
Is this a genuine first post?
I'm not sure I want them to change anything else after being told my genuine copy was pirated.
"No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson
Me thinks I need ta be labeled 'genuine pirate'. Aaaarrrrrrrr!
So I guess the new categories are:
1. Not a pirate
2. Pirate
3. Ninja
There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
Just do away with all this crap and stop bothering paying customers. Hackers will always find a way around whatever scheme MS or any other company devises. It's just a fact of life. If humans make it, humans can break it. Vista is already hacked and it will always continue. HDDVD has met the same fate.
gasmonso http://religiousfreaks.com/#if !defined TRUE
#define TRUE 1
#endif
#if !defined FALSE
#define FALSE 0
#endif
#define MAYBE 2
It seems even MS is willing to admit a major screw up and is willing to give consumers the benefit of the doubt once again.
Do you think people inside MS are starting to finally stop listening to Ballmer and his business/money only mentality?
It could be quite earth shaking for MS to start caring about consumers more than $$ again.
When is the category 'We were wrong' coming?
Not sure does not mean MSFT does not know whether or not the Windows installation is genuine or not. It just means that MSFT is not sure, if they crack down too hard on the bootleg copies of windows, whether it will push people into Linux camp and create more marketshare, installs and toe/foothold for Linux.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
They simply need to combine this new categorization with Live's matchmaking schema. They'll get rid of the software pirates by matching an appropriate ninja to go and kill them.
I'm a Mac
I'm a PC
I'm not sure
I mean, how hard can it be? The key either is valid or it isn't. Compare the key for validity using the same algorithm that Windows installation uses and compare it against the database of invalidated keys and that's it. No other software products have no problems with validating keys, why is this causing so much problems for Microsoft?
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=218426&cid=17
I hate to say it but "I told you so!"
Ok, I enjoy saying it
After this change takes place, can I please upgrade my CPU without having to grovel on the phone to some tech support bozo for a new key?
This sig is inappropriate in a post-9/11 world.
They very obviously know what sorts of things are landing people in the "not sure" category. Their software will is doing the labeling. Perhaps they want to quantify how much specific factors are contributing.
This is all well and good, but what about activation? I own a student edition of WinXP Pro and every time I install the OS the internet activation fails. I'm prompted (forced) to call a 1-800 number to activate manually within 30 days. When I do so I must key in or speak a 48-digit activation key which also fails every time. I'm then forwarded to a human being (in India, I'm quite positive) who asks me to repeat part of that 48-digit key, has the audacity to ask me WHY I'M INSTALLING WINDOWS, and then reads back a corresponding 48-digit key which always works.
I have never had trouble using pirated editions of Windows. Regardless of this softened WGA check, Microsoft punishes their legitimate customers. Period.
If the authentication server is set to 127.0.0.1 in your hosts file, it assumes your copy is genuine. I imagine the new "not sure" category is to prevent that from happening.
#1 Pirate
#2 Not a Pirate
#3 Wishes he was a Pirate because he paid good money to be told he was anyway.
I actually think this is a step in the right direction. It not only eliminates a lot of the complaining about false positives, it also lets Microsoft analyze their WGA strategy in terms of what honest users actually tend to do. My own XP Pro install is about four years old, IIRR, and in that time, I've upgraded the HD a couple of times and changed the graphics card once. If my CPU cooks or I want to switch to a better LAN card, I'd just as soon not have to argue with Microsoft *or* pay another $200+.
But its still missing some very important identifiers. We must have at least TRUE, FALSE, and FILE_NOT_FOUND!
Honestly, this genuine check really doesn't work all that well. I had to install a patch to get around the genuine check on my aunts computer because she couldn't download updates, even though she legally owned XP. I have seen computers in my college that have the genuine popping up. And obviously those are all legal.
Soon the options will be:
* Signs point to yes.
* Yes.
* Most likely.
* Without a doubt.
* Yes - definitely.
* As I see it, yes.
* You may rely on it.
* Chances are good.
* It is certain.
* It is decidedly so.
* Reply hazy, try again.
* Better not tell you now.
* Ask again later.
* Concentrate and ask again.
* Cannot predict now.
* My sources say no.
* Very doubtful.
* My reply is no.
* Chances not so good.
* Don't count on it.
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
Windows Bogus Advantage!
Is it a genuine Operating System ?
Not sure.....
While I know my copy of XP is the real deal as I bought it off the shelf at a box store, I have something loaded on my machine that doesn't get along with genuine advantage update - and that update blows up midway through install. Thanks Microsoft. I didn't need those security updates anyhow, right?
Eleven years prior (~1996), I was mostly fed up with Microsoft's business practices--quasi-monopoly, and vowed to switch to Redhat Linux or FreeBSD exclusively as I'd used them for server OSes. That proved more effort at the time than it was worth, so I resolved to use Windows 98. Once WGA expired my workstation license, rather than bother with phone calls to customer service, etc., I vowed this was THE straw that broke the camel's back, promptly loaded Kubuntu 5.10 and haven't looked back since. Microsoft OS won't be a first choice for any projects, nor will it run outside of a virtual machine on any hardware I oversee in the future.
Furthermore, I think Microsoft should grant every computer geek/technician at least one free license as we're the people that help keep them in business, recommend them, etc.
Too little, too late Microsoft; Goodbye and good riddance!
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt. (When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will
You forgot the best one of all!
* Outlook not so good.
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
#define MAYBE (random()&1)
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Novell would have each NetWare server broadcast its license on the network. If two boxes used the same license, both boxes would shut down.
And Novell tracked each license number by company. You could transfer your license to a different company by sending Novell a letter on your company's letterhead.
Microsoft couldn't distinguish between the serial number for a mouse and the serial number for NT server. Microsoft didn't keep a record of what licenses you had registered. They couldn't even tell you if you HAD registered any licenses.
So you could get one license code for NT server and install 1,000 "pirated" servers.
And Microsoft liked it like that. That gave them the edge over Novell.
Now that Microsoft's competition is practically dead, Microsoft is looking for ways to increase their revenue by making sure that every single license is paid for. Just like Novell was doing in the 90's.
...because in those days 1 copy of windows would supply dozens of people (family, friends, their family, etc). I'm sure it was an even bigger problem for schools and businesses. Now, I'm sure some of you believe that all software should be free or open source, however, I can also see MS's view of wanting to actually get money for their OS. I don't believe WGA is necessarily the best way of doing this, but MS will never go back to "free copies for everyone win98" days.
I may aswell steal it if they are going to treat me like a theif.
Example, I wanted to purchase RETAIL (not OEM) Windows XP 64bit edition but I wish to activate it on my current laptop but plan on purchasing a new one in the next quarter so I wish to move my RETAIL licensed Windows I purchased from my old laptop to the new one. Can I do this easily without begging on their call center that I am not a thief? Probably not, I dont want to risk my money with that.
They need a better 1) licensing policy and a way to 2) easily move from machine to machine.
They lose money from me because they make it a royal pain in the ass, it is much easier for me to use a downloaded copy.
In the United States, it's pretty difficult to buy a pre-made PC without a license for Microsoft Windows. Yes, I've heard about the Dell "N" series, yes, I know you can build your own. But go to CompUSA, BestBuy, Costco, Dell direct, and these machines all have licenses for Windows.
So ask yourself this... in the current situation, why is microsoft investing so heavily in WGA? Surely, there are no more licenses to be sold.
But apparently there is. Microsoft has so narrowly defined the definition of a "legal copy of windows" that you really can't be sure.
If my Dell is smoked, and I replace the motherboard, apparently, I don't have a valid license? Or maybe I do. MS will let me know when they decide.
If I've changed too many things too many times in my PC (RAM, HD, Memory, etc), apparently, I am a software pirate. Go figure.
Going back to my original point. If MS is saying 1 of 5 PC's fail this test, they're saying 20% of all PC's don't have a license for Windows. If I assume that 2% of new PC's are sold in the U.S. without a Windows license, then what happened to those other 18% of licenses?
It doesn't add up.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
And using MPAA logic:
There are 6 billion people in the world who could be potential Vista users.
If 1/5 of all people using Vista are pirates, then 1.2 billion people could also be potential pirates.
At a max cost of $250 per Vista license, that means Microsoft is facing a potential $300,000,000,000 in losses!
Damn those pirates!
I wonder if this is the WGA update XP keeps pestering me to install every time I boot it. I let the bloody thing "validate" me long ago and then blocked it in my firewall from accessing the net. I swear, I'm *this* close (and I'm holding my thumb and finger VERY close together) to deleting the XP partition altogether.
1 in 4 Maine children in struggle with hunger.
Are you listening Microsoft? Here is an opportunity to make some money. Package and sell the pirated version as 'Windows Freebooter', perhaps for a $50 premium over regular price. Seriously, I'll bet there's a market for it.
Loose lips lose spit.
I have been running for over a year a windows xp installation in VMware on linux that has SP2, IE 7, media player 11, WGA and all the latest patches installed. The problem is that the same product key is installed on another PC where I last worked at (I hate windows, so I'll never pay for it; if it weren't for my job at the time and occasional games I wouldn't have used it at all. It's just too cumbersome.).
And now we (hopefully) will have Linux/BSD, which you can legally and in perpetuity install onto as many servers as you want, and not have to worry about the cycle repeating.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
Instead of a simple true/false you're a pirate, MS is now using advanced fuzzy logic. Is a pirate, maybe a pirate or not a pirate. Perhaps this is the fruition from MS research labs? Maybe this is a perfect opportunity for the ressurgence of clippy? Or more likely the developers were fuzzy when implementing the algoritm?
Good, because ultimately it will be Microsoft's undoing. Small shops that were 100% Microsoft but were able to do so only by paying for what they cord afford and pirating what they couldn't will now be forced to dump Microsoft or stick with older versions of Microsoft software because the new versions are so locked down they can no longer engage in the casual copying they used to engage in to upgrade those PC's that they otherwise couldn't afford to upgrade. They'll then focus on finding less expensive or free alternatives that can integrate with the existing Microsoft software that they are running. Standards suddenly become important to these shops and they are now open to and aware of alternatives they were not open to or aware of before. Suddenly paying the Microsoft tax seems more and more ridiculous.
This reminds me of the movie Idiocracy. The guy ends up in the future, and is mistakenly identified as Mr. "Not Sure" by the ID processing machine.
I guess it was running Windows Genuine Advantage.
What's sad is all WGA does is prevent EVERYONE from getting easy access to installing security updates, leaving systems more vunerable and a possible danger down the road to the legitmate users.
And that's to no one's advantage.
If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
Ok, so it's clear that they don't trust us. Should we trust them? I don't trust them when their narkware/malware tool forbids me from logging into computer because "A problem is preventing Windows from accurately checking the license for this computer". Not even safe mode worked. Each time I logged in, I was immediately was booted out again with that WGA message. The MS solution is to edit the registry - although one cannot even log in! A repair-install was the only solution for me. :-(
I swear this is true.
The Dutch version of WGA, after validation, is showing this option at the bottom:
"Laat mij enkele voordelen zien van het gebruik van illegale software als ik op voltooien klik."
Which translates to:
"Show me some advantages of the use of illegal software when I click Finish."
This is not the sig you're looking for.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Novell sells SuseLinux which is openly 'pirated' and Novell likes it like that :P
Heh, even M$ buys it!
Hope this won't repeat the cycle.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
ID Processing Computer: "Please repeat your license key as it occurs on your M$ identity card. Document number G24L8"
Joe: "Well, I'm not sure if--"
ID Processing Computer: "You have entered the license status of 'Not Sure'. Is this correct, Not sure?"
Joe: "No, it is not correct."
ID Processing Computer: "Thank you. 'Not' is correct. Is 'Sure' correct?
Joe: No, it's not. My license key is rm233-"
ID Processing Computer: "You've already confirmed that your license key starts with 'Not'."
ID Processing Computer: "Please confirm the last part of your key, 'Sure'."
Joe: "My ke-- The last part of my key is not sure. No."
ID Processing Computer: "Thank you. Your pirating status has been entered as Not Sure."
Joe: "What I mean is my status is legi--"
ID Processing Computer: "Confirmation is complete. Please wait while I tattoo your pirate status on all your word documents and email correspondences."
Joe: "Tattoo, wait what?!?"
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
* CowboyNeal says maybe.
For security, the MD5 hash of this message and sig is 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0.
Being an enterprise administrator, is having to now use key management service to 'activate' Vista PCs. We have no plans to migrate any time soon, but when that time comes (another two years?) then I can guarantee tears will be shed.
Every other enterprise admin says the same thing, they dread when they have to migrate because of activation problems.
I've joked with them about setting up a public KMS (like the china one) so we make it easier amongst ourselves.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
All of the discussions I've had about Linux vs. Windows were about Linux vs. Pirated (or at least loose use of the EULA) Windows. As long as people can give Windows away to their brother-in-law (which is very hard to do under the EULA), they like it. If they ever couldn't, Linux would look a lot more attractive.
Since Vista seems to be having a lukewarm reception, Microsoft is wisely making it easier to use.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
Reminds me of the usual drug dealer tactics. First it is for free (that is, no copy protection), but as soon as someone gets addicted they will have to pay for it. Produce a new drug called Vista promising a totally new experience and all the addicts run to their local dealer, just to find out they can't afford it, can't get it for free (being protected from themselves by something called WGA) and having to buy 24 carat golden needles to use Vista (Aero. 4GB, +3Ghz CPU etc).
I've never encountered any entity that paid "what it could afford" unless it was for a religion or organized crime. You either pirate Windows or you don't. If I'm running a shop where I have 100 boxen, but only 10 of them are licensed, I am a certified idiot because getting busted will put me in as much trouble as if I had ZERO licenses. Might as well go all out.
A more accurate statement is: companies that buy what they absolutely have to, and pirate what they can get away with. I live in a big capital city, and of the hundred computer shops around here, I'd say about 80 of those will take a good look at you and based on how dumb you look, they'll just preload a cracked OS but still charge you the $200 or so for the software you don't legally own. They do it because 1. they're crooks and 2. you're the kind of person who will bring the PC to the shop if/when the WGA starts complaining, at which point they will quickly re-patch it and send you on your way. They're also the kind of shop who will conveniently make any cash payments "disappear" from their tax reports, claim losses for products that were RMA'ed (thus refunded/replaced), or conveniently declare bankruptcy after a particularly successful year.
Heck, if you were diagnosed with a terminal illness, you suddenly wouldn't be afraid of having unprotected sex or any other unsafe activity, because you're dying no matter what. Same thing applies to crooks.. whether it's the tax evasion, or piracy, welfare fraud, skipping alimony, hell even immigration affairs.. who cares, if you don't get busted for one, you will for the other, or you just might get away with all of it. Black or white. Good techie, bad techie. There's no such thing as a half-bad techie.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Hopefully "18 reinstalls on the same damned computer because the forker crashed every three months from infestations" counts as "not sure" rather than "you are a stealing mofo".
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Maybe a few... but one in five? Hard to believe.
Piracy is still helping Microsoft. I don't know about Ballmer, but I'm sure Gates realizes this. If Microsoft could come up with the Perfect Anti-Piracy Defense (TM), they'd be royally screwed a year later. In Central and Eastern Europe, there are numerous countries that don't get super-cheap MS software like some Asian countries do, but where the salaries are low. Low as in laughable by Americans standards, as in less than the worst-paid jobs. Example? Romania, with an average gross wage of 545 USD. Piracy is prevalent in these countries, and if they could no longer pirate, most home users would have to seek alternatives. And every Linux enthusiast would start advertising it really actively, and Microsoft's market share would be gone just like that. MS are smart enough to realize that they should fight those who produce counterfeit software or companies that have the money but decide to save up by not buying legal software. But certainly they shouldn't fight piracy by home users who can't afford the software and would switch to an alternative the moment they could no longer pirate.
I had a machine that I upgraded piece-by-piece. I changed hard drives, upgraded to gigabit ethernet, put in a faster CPU, changed graphics cards and eventually upgraded the motherboard.
Microsoft India told me that I had "reached the limit" on that license and that they could "no longer issue a code for that Windows XP ID number". I shouted the guy down for 10 minutes (yes, I lost it) and eventually asked him for a supervisor.
I told the supervisor that I was a technical person, changed my hardware often and was sick and tired of being bothered every time I made a legitimate hardware change and could they just remove my number from validation checking altogether?
They told me there was "absolutely no way" they could remove a Windows ID from validation.
That copy of XP has NEVER asked for validation since...no matter what hardware changes I make. :)
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
The 90's??? The 1990's??? The decade in which MS stock went from sixty cents a share to sixty dollars a share? Those 90's?
my guess is it will probably force you to play this on every single bootupe lated&search=
forcing this incredibly annoying song to go through your head all day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEBbu-wkKrs&mode=r
if that isn't a deterrent, I don't know what is
What the heck is Windows, and what the heck is Windows Genuine Advantage? Will it run on my Mac?
While it was funny in its own right, what movie was it paraphrased from?
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
Actually, the algorithm for XP VLKs was only "sorta" cracked; they're not "perfectly" valid, but only somewhat valid. The crack algorithm(s) generate keys in the recognizably valid keyspace, but only in parts of that (enormous) keyspace that Microsoft knows it hasn't ever used. So, a publicly generated key will (presently maybe?) install fine, but Microsoft knows it's outside the range of legitimate keys. All they should have to do is actually revoke keys outside this range (via update or service pack), effectively shrinking the size of the keyspace by disallowing a portion of it.
Therefore, it's not actually a database of keys "actually sold", which is the more robust thing to do although it is logistically difficult even for Microsoft. Creating a secret keyspace, with a secret mapping, and a secret key to that mapping, is one way to do it and it's the way they used for XP. Keeping an actual database only raises the difficulty of attack a somewhat, but it vastly increases the record-keeping requirement on their part from "a vanishingly small percent of keys to blacklist plus the decompiled and reconstructed crack algorithms' analysis" to "ever valid key we sell and obviously a list of those we've not yet sold" in a symmetric relationship with every copy of Windows (or Word or Office or Excel or anything else) that they sell, ever.
I was hoping that Ballmer would follow through with his threat to tighten the screws with WGA! Indeed, if you are pro- Free Software, you should encourage Microsoft's crackdown on piracy.
I'm all for it. I'm for WGA turning an infringer's computer into a smoking heap.
Every person who installs an illegitimate version of Windows is another person that Microsoft can count on to not look at alternatives.
--
BMO
I have personally had to argue with MS to get a new activation key for a perfectly legal copy of Windows XP pro...
I moved my Windows install from VMware on Linux to Parallels on OS X. I am still only running it in one place and it is a retail copy.
On top of all of this, it cost me real money to get this key because the toll free number that you have to call to get it isn't toll free or included in my monthly minutes allowance on my cell phone.
So Microsoft made me pay extra money to use a product I had already bought, and on top of that argued with me when I phoned. They kept insisting that I was using the copy in two places at once, when I am very definitely only using it in one place.
It's 'Secretary Not Sure, ma'am'!
Even if in its basic level, the raw 80x86 assembly, Windows code is readable by humans, and therefore it can be altered. A few years back you had to have a hardware debugger; today, a simple virtual environment with debugging capabilities will perfectly do the job.
The only chance against piracy is either to make self-encrypting code, so as that the moment it is altered it can not run any more (which is impossible), or make the code invisible through hardware means.
This article: "As many as one in five PCs were failing WGA checks"
/. source
Another article: "...estimates that at this point one in four computers is infected with botnet software."
Weird.
Money is the root of all evil?
Over this last weekend my wife brought my mother-in-laws computers back to the house because it was "behaving badly". Hard drive was making some noise and thrashing constantly. This even though she had a nice anti-virus/spyware/whateverware package on it (AVG), updated regularly, and had FINALLY broken her habit of opening all those cool attachments her other computer novice friends kept e-mailing her.
Turns out the HD was going south on her, it had developed some bad sectors and whatnot and was having issues coping with these, and I suspect had some corrupted files because of it. I pull one of my spare 60G drives from my workshop slap it in and proceed to tell Norton Ghost to make that puppy the new C drive.
Still has trouble on booting because it's hanging trying to load some files which seemed to be broken. Next easy step. Pop in her XP CD (which still had the booklet with sticker showing her key) and tell it to repair the install. It does, and things boot, but now it says it's failing WGA checks. I wrestled with it for a good hour before finding that even though it had a fresh install of windows some of the WGA stuff had failed to install right and was giving "not sure" messages. I had to dig through more MS KB stuff to find the files to re-download and fix. And I kept eying that CD on my desk with the "fix WGA... but good!" tools on it that don't come from microsoft, but I know would have straightened it's nasty WGA habit right up...
They seriously need to make that less intrusive, and considerably "smarter". Before further punishing innocents with it. Of course from what I hear Vista WGA has already been cracked, so it gets back to the "why punish people with DRM that gets cracked as fast as you can release it anyways" argument.
I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
As we all know, Microsoft locks onto a target group of PCs, but the real pirates just keep patching. The honest idiots get tagged as pirates. We all know this abusurd anti-piracy doesn't work. In one of my MIS classes, out of 25 students, everyone either had a pirated copy of VS.NET working, or had failed to get a legit copy to work. That's 100%. 100% of honest users fail to get it to work. 100% of dishonest users get it to work. Enough said. Andy Out!
They have told me it had to be fixed with the Compaq center ;
;)
because it was an OEM copy; called them back FOUR times and at the end they gave me a working key.
This happened to me two times; only the second time I've managed to cut it out to two times
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..