IANAPA, but I heard on the radio that these jobs are being outsourced as well. I think it was Brazil that the report said the industry is getting their cheap "talent" from. The days of highly-paid megastars in that world, like messed-up ole Jenna Jameson, are over, as they just don't want to pay much anymore.
Nope, some UI coders just suck donkey. You can't blame management for evey mistake,...
No one said there are no UI coders that suck donkey, or that mgmt can be blamed for every mistake. Did I touch a nerve or something?
Good usability data trumps... a pet customer's ideas.
Agreed. Unfortunately, in my work situation, we write custom software for and are completely dependent on a single HUGE customer (take a guess), so what they say trumps all. Including what they said last week, that you're halfway in the middle of implementing! And they couldn't care LESS about usability. I feel sorry for the poor schmucks that have to use stuff made this way.
Nope, bad UI design goes back to bad management. It's the managers' job to facilitate the developers (the people who do the actual work). Managers can do this because they have the time (they are not coding, researching, debugging, etc.), the authority, and the connections. If you can take a developer to a customer site, to notice how the program is really used, you could've provided that information to begin with.
Depends. There's the kind of "glitch" where you've simply outsmarted the authors. For example, looking for and practicing and finding that if you take a flying leap just so, you can jump to a spot and unforeseen by the designers come up *behind* an enemy, to great advantage. It's all within the physical laws of the game's universe, so no rules have been broken. Rewards for cleverness is par for the course in games.
Then there's the kind where you find that you can finagle more attacks per turn with a certain piece than you're supposed to/than the computer can. It violates the rules, and thus is not that far removed from using a cheat such as entering a secret QA testing mode.
Market forces of the sheer user base would dictate that if this were not so, more spyware would have been ported to Firefox by now.
You're forgetting about the average technical ability of each type of user. Statistically the average Firefox user is security-savy and is running with a firewall and up-to-date on patches. Have Firefox shipped already installed on millions of Dells, and when a significant proportion of our grandmothers are using Firefox , then it will be much more enticing to hackers. Maybe that's there was so much bitter opposition from Firefox supporters to the new Netscape browser -- if there's widespread adoption outside the geek community, it becomes a target.
I do, and I agree with the GP. If you're just starting out in this industry there's not much weight behind your words. But I started my current job as a senior engineer, and was hired for starters to fix a mess, and did. I've "trained" my boss to know that when I say I know what I'm doing, I do, and if I say what he's planning will lead to bad things, he knows it. Of course, it helps that I have a boss who realizes that most of the time what is bad for me is also bad for him (since we are on the same team). With a dumb-as-a-stump boss, however, all you can do is look for another job and bide your time. There are decent bosses out there. But you also need to manage them.
Certainly there's some confusion about these terms. I consider whether developers or sysadmins or tech support or QA or documentation etc. etc. we're all IT workers in the IT industry. We all work with Information Technology.
But ya I wouldn't call a VB+Access coder a "software engineer" (based on my experience from one job at a VB shop during the dot-com days).
Then again, just doing OOP doesn't necessarily indicate one's a "software engineer" -- while for example some Design Patterns can be implemented in Java, the Java group where I work has managed some rather un-OO designs, and don't know about things like database normalization.
This commission was relatively new at the time I graduated high screwl, and I chose my college partly because it was one of only two so far in my state to have gotten its CS program accredited.
That's true too. My 2nd dot-com was run by a guy who uprooted his family to take a CEO job to try his hand at running a dot-com! Guess how well he did!
Java is not cross-platform -- it is a platform. If all you know is the Java language and its API's, then that's the only platform you know. If someone asks you to write them an NT service or a Windows system tray application, you can't because you don't know that platform. If the VB runtime were ported to every system imaginable, it still wouldn't be cross-platform because it is a platform. If all you know is the VB language and it's IDE and how to string together OCX's, you are writing platform-specific code. Just like the Java and Windows developers.
One problem I have with job interviews, is you never know obscure bit of programming trivia the interviewer has latched on to and is waiting to spring on you.
I have no problem with that at all -- the organization that waits to spring an obscure trivia question on me is no place I want to work. And it's better that I find out sooner than later. The interview is a 2-way thing, a mutual sizing-up-fest between parties. I've been known to ask more questions in an interview than the interviewer. A company that wastes my time during an interview would probably waste my time on the job as well.
By "a few months down the road they discover it's crap" it's meant that they tried to change something or add something, and it fell to rubble because it wasn't "object-oriented" and "highly encapsulated" etc. You're trying to imply that there are only quickie hack jobs that solve the problem, or well-engineered behemoths that don't, and that's untrue and a false choice.
I think of a minor as potential icing on the cake with one's degree. For example, I got a Business Administration minor (2 additional semesters) while I got my BSCS, because I thought it would suggest to employers that I wasn't just a one-sided nerd, but had some business sense/appreciation for what goes on in "the real world".
In general I would say a CS minor looks very good accompanying a non-technical major, because it shows you have an interest in and can handle an increasingly technological world and workplace. But since you already have IT experience, I don't think it will help you any.
The question is, what do you ultimately want to do for a living? If it's programming, the vast majority of companies require at least a BS, in CS, or for some, in any math or engineering discipline.
For a few dollars (and about a semester) more, I can also minor in CS.
For a few dollars more, you can learn about C++ (the good), Java (the bad), and Perl (the ugly), get a job, and barely make from it all a fistful of dollars.
From TFA: "...since under Van Alstyne's proposal, senders only risk their bond when initiating contact for the first time."
Uh, no. Even the provisions of the worthless Do Not Call List include only allowing calls within x months of that company having done business with you, not in perpetuity.
Good point, but even demanding users don't necessarily think that way, or want to. When I'm coding something up and flipping back and forth between it and some reference material, I don't want to have to think first "wait, was I viewing a web page or a Word doc or a PDF or something else?", I just want to switch to "L33t C++ Reference", whatever app is hosting it.
When using multiple Excel instances/windows, clicking "the X" to close _this_ window closes _all_ excel windows.
Yup, it's like just the "open document" functionality was hacked to (appear to) support the new SDI philosophy at MS, but deep down inside Excel still acts like an MDI app.
Slashdot Mirror
An engineer and a programmer are walking down the street when it starts to rain.
How can a street start to rain?
IANAPA, but I heard on the radio that these jobs are being outsourced as well. I think it was Brazil that the report said the industry is getting their cheap "talent" from. The days of highly-paid megastars in that world, like messed-up ole Jenna Jameson, are over, as they just don't want to pay much anymore.
Nope, some UI coders just suck donkey. You can't blame management for evey mistake,...
... a pet customer's ideas.
No one said there are no UI coders that suck donkey, or that mgmt can be blamed for every mistake. Did I touch a nerve or something?
Good usability data trumps
Agreed. Unfortunately, in my work situation, we write custom software for and are completely dependent on a single HUGE customer (take a guess), so what they say trumps all. Including what they said last week, that you're halfway in the middle of implementing! And they couldn't care LESS about usability. I feel sorry for the poor schmucks that have to use stuff made this way.
Nope, bad UI design goes back to bad management. It's the managers' job to facilitate the developers (the people who do the actual work). Managers can do this because they have the time (they are not coding, researching, debugging, etc.), the authority, and the connections. If you can take a developer to a customer site, to notice how the program is really used, you could've provided that information to begin with.
Depends. There's the kind of "glitch" where you've simply outsmarted the authors. For example, looking for and practicing and finding that if you take a flying leap just so, you can jump to a spot and unforeseen by the designers come up *behind* an enemy, to great advantage. It's all within the physical laws of the game's universe, so no rules have been broken. Rewards for cleverness is par for the course in games.
Then there's the kind where you find that you can finagle more attacks per turn with a certain piece than you're supposed to/than the computer can. It violates the rules, and thus is not that far removed from using a cheat such as entering a secret QA testing mode.
Not when you've written your own pop-up blocker that hooks into the OS and actually prevents the browser from creating a new window.
Market forces of the sheer user base would dictate that if this were not so, more spyware would have been ported to Firefox by now.
You're forgetting about the average technical ability of each type of user. Statistically the average Firefox user is security-savy and is running with a firewall and up-to-date on patches. Have Firefox shipped already installed on millions of Dells, and when a significant proportion of our grandmothers are using Firefox , then it will be much more enticing to hackers. Maybe that's there was so much bitter opposition from Firefox supporters to the new Netscape browser -- if there's widespread adoption outside the geek community, it becomes a target.
I do, and I agree with the GP. If you're just starting out in this industry there's not much weight behind your words. But I started my current job as a senior engineer, and was hired for starters to fix a mess, and did. I've "trained" my boss to know that when I say I know what I'm doing, I do, and if I say what he's planning will lead to bad things, he knows it. Of course, it helps that I have a boss who realizes that most of the time what is bad for me is also bad for him (since we are on the same team). With a dumb-as-a-stump boss, however, all you can do is look for another job and bide your time. There are decent bosses out there. But you also need to manage them.
Certainly there's some confusion about these terms. I consider whether developers or sysadmins or tech support or QA or documentation etc. etc. we're all IT workers in the IT industry. We all work with Information Technology.
But ya I wouldn't call a VB+Access coder a "software engineer" (based on my experience from one job at a VB shop during the dot-com days).
Then again, just doing OOP doesn't necessarily indicate one's a "software engineer" -- while for example some Design Patterns can be implemented in Java, the Java group where I work has managed some rather un-OO designs, and don't know about things like database normalization.
So, I think either the accrediting institutions need to enforce some standardization in degree programs across the board,...
They do. There's a Computing Accreditation Commission arm of the ABET. Their criteria is at http://www.abet.org/criteria_cac.html.
This commission was relatively new at the time I graduated high screwl, and I chose my college partly because it was one of only two so far in my state to have gotten its CS program accredited.
That's true too. My 2nd dot-com was run by a guy who uprooted his family to take a CEO job to try his hand at running a dot-com! Guess how well he did!
Java is not cross-platform -- it is a platform. If all you know is the Java language and its API's, then that's the only platform you know. If someone asks you to write them an NT service or a Windows system tray application, you can't because you don't know that platform. If the VB runtime were ported to every system imaginable, it still wouldn't be cross-platform because it is a platform. If all you know is the VB language and it's IDE and how to string together OCX's, you are writing platform-specific code. Just like the Java and Windows developers.
One problem I have with job interviews, is you never know obscure bit of programming trivia the interviewer has latched on to and is waiting to spring on you.
I have no problem with that at all -- the organization that waits to spring an obscure trivia question on me is no place I want to work. And it's better that I find out sooner than later. The interview is a 2-way thing, a mutual sizing-up-fest between parties. I've been known to ask more questions in an interview than the interviewer. A company that wastes my time during an interview would probably waste my time on the job as well.
Now let's all hold hands and sing Imagine.
And the lawyers are putting the squeeze on doctors. I think in the end the U.S. will be nothing but lawyers going around suing each other.
- Sales Engineering
Gotta love it. Next I suppose secretaries will become Administrative Engineers.
Businesses need managers who give a rat's ass about the business.
He was a total kook who spouted utter nonsense... Complete nut-job.
Then how could you tell him apart from any other Slashdotter?
By "a few months down the road they discover it's crap" it's meant that they tried to change something or add something, and it fell to rubble because it wasn't "object-oriented" and "highly encapsulated" etc. You're trying to imply that there are only quickie hack jobs that solve the problem, or well-engineered behemoths that don't, and that's untrue and a false choice.
I think of a minor as potential icing on the cake with one's degree. For example, I got a Business Administration minor (2 additional semesters) while I got my BSCS, because I thought it would suggest to employers that I wasn't just a one-sided nerd, but had some business sense/appreciation for what goes on in "the real world".
In general I would say a CS minor looks very good accompanying a non-technical major, because it shows you have an interest in and can handle an increasingly technological world and workplace. But since you already have IT experience, I don't think it will help you any.
The question is, what do you ultimately want to do for a living? If it's programming, the vast majority of companies require at least a BS, in CS, or for some, in any math or engineering discipline.
For a few dollars (and about a semester) more, I can also minor in CS.
For a few dollars more, you can learn about C++ (the good), Java (the bad), and Perl (the ugly), get a job, and barely make from it all a fistful of dollars.
You must mean in academia, because HCI is not even a consideration in the business world I live in.
From TFA:
"...since under Van Alstyne's proposal, senders only risk their bond when initiating contact for the first time."
Uh, no. Even the provisions of the worthless Do Not Call List include only allowing calls within x months of that company having done business with you, not in perpetuity.
Good point, but even demanding users don't necessarily think that way, or want to. When I'm coding something up and flipping back and forth between it and some reference material, I don't want to have to think first "wait, was I viewing a web page or a Word doc or a PDF or something else?", I just want to switch to "L33t C++ Reference", whatever app is hosting it.
When using multiple Excel instances/windows, clicking "the X" to close _this_ window closes _all_ excel windows.
Yup, it's like just the "open document" functionality was hacked to (appear to) support the new SDI philosophy at MS, but deep down inside Excel still acts like an MDI app.