I am aware of the paper production, but it is easier to recycle the water in such an environment than in every single household. There literally is no reduce, reuse, recycle in the home these days.
Make the following the next time you are at a fast food store (whatever you frequent in the day) and try to think what is all invovled in the product you just buy.
I played that game a couple of times and it becomes scary very fast when you come to realize just how much stuff goes into even a cup of coffee.
Mainly because nobody ever considered the batteries to be a "maintenance" item in that fashion.
To "modulize" the power pack should be possible and make it easily exchangable as well. Just until now (and I guess for the forseeable future) this isn't high on their agenda.
But I don't see any TECHNICAL reasons why not? The logic can be centralized in the car, plus a small "logic unit" in each pack.
Heck, APC had "hot swappable" battery packs for their larger UPSs years ago, and if you look at someo f the OLD UPS systems you'll realize they look awfully similar to what the electric cars look today.
1. You need standards for battery sizes if this scheme is going to be useful.
Correct, but that should be attainable, after all we all are using AA Batteries, so it should be possible for the manufacturers to come up with specific form factors.
That of course assumes they WANT it to succeed.
2. Batteries are heavy, so you are probably going to need automation in order to make a batter swap as quick and pain free as filling a car. For the automation to work, you are going to need additional standards for placement and/or discovery of the batter compartment, etc.
Break the battery packs up into modules, have a small conveyer belt that can move the packs around (or a small dolly), you just open a flap and slide the battery on the conveyer and the new one goes in in reverse. This shouldn't be too hard to do.
3. Batteries are expensive, much more so than a ~30 steel propane tank. I think a typical hybird has a few grand worth of batteries in it. Presumably a battery-only vehicle would need even more. This is capital that needs to be invested and paid for (interest payments + reasonable financial return + depreciation as the batteries wear outh).
Correct, I would assume you would pay a monthly fee, plus a "fuel" charge on every exchange. It's a matter of economy of scale, the more cars, the cheaper it will become.
4. You are talking about building yet another transportation fueling infrastructure with all the expense of that (beyond the cost of batteries mentioned above). One advantage of hybrids is that they use the existing infrastructure for powering gasoline powered vehicles. One of the disadvantages of fuel-cell powered vehicles is that they too need extensive new infrastructure. I'm not convinced that it would be better to build a battery-exchange infrastructure over a hydrogen-fuel infrastructure.
The infrastructure could center around major urban centers first. For the long haul, traditional fuel or even hydrogene could be used. Or (to really think ahead), building high speed rail links between major areas which would allow you to take the car along.
Think of a car the size of a SMART with the ability to travel 200miles on a battery, now combine this with a high speed train link and suddenly you have a system that could work for the majority of the people.
People who live in the country, on farms etc. clearly aren't a target, but they wouldn't be for an electrical car either, so they could be based on a Hydrogene based economy.
most of the current cars are still rather "experimental" and "proof of concept". I can imagine that a production car the battery exchange could be done differently (e.g. Swappabal battery "modules" like some of the large APC UPSs have them).
As for the different standards: At one point everybody in the car industry agreed to use certain gas specs, what speaks against certain form factors for teh batteries? The Car manufacturer could create a "supply" company that is handling all the battery needs, an additional revenue stream for the car companies.
My suggestion wasn't aimed towards this specific car. I am sure that a less powerful car that reaches maybe half the speed can go the same distance with less batteries and easier exchangable packs.
That was the idea behind it, you had a basic monthly "membership" and then you paid for each "refill" a small amount.
That idea actually is old, it was initially proposed back in Germany in the late 80s, the idea being used for Busses who would "drag" the battery on a cart behind them.
Yes, but a papercup decomposes, so in essence it doesn't add net to the waste pile.
Most cups, btw, aren't washed with cold water, but in a dishwasher. AND there is energy involved when it comes to the clean drinking water you get delivered to your home: Burying of pipes, pumping of water, cleaning etc.
This was aimed towards the coffee cup at starbucks.
I can't find the link to the research right now, but consider this:
- The Material has to be pulled out of the earth. - Shaped. - Burned - Transported (a lot heavier than a paper cup). - The water / power that is used for the wash every time.
Also they calculated an "average" life time for a coffee cup in a place like Starbucks and the papercup came out ahead.
The other thing is: Once the paper cup is used up it could be "recycled" to compost and thus "brought back", while the ceramic cup is pretty much around for the rest of time.
A couple of years ago somoene suggested a "Battery Exchange".
Think of it like the Propane tanks you can exchange at the Home Depot or Supermarket. You just simply would drive up to the "gas station", the empty battery gets pulled out, and a charged one installed.
Done, no muss, no fuss, no waiting.
This would also make sure that you always have a working battery AND it could also lower the entry level as you wouldn't need to replace the battery pack every couple of months.
I guess that's a problem that many people never acccount for: The overall cost to the environment.
Granted, one of the ESB takes less power, but how much energy does it take to make one?
Same goes, btw, with the papercup at the coffee shop. It might seem more environmental friendly to take the normal ceramic cup, but if you factor everything in one comes to realize that the papercup is actually better for the environment.
And there are also "security certificates" which can be leveled against non Canadian Citizens, also the government CAN revoke ones citizenship (so in theory:
Actually the most intersting difference between the two documents is that MOST of the points in the Canadian Charter of Rights apply to ANY person on Canadian soil, NOT just citizens.
There are some expections, but that is something that differentiates the two countries as well. The US Constitution grants its rights only to US Citizens, Canada is a lot more open there, as long as you are a human being, you're pretty much covered.
I'm more horrified at the huge number of people who have been decieved and may elect the next president than the small number of wackos.
So get invovled, get people to flood the media with letters, write in, write Op pieces for the local newspaper etc. etc.
I think the BIGGEST problem really is that most people in the US who see this coming are sort of surrendering for one reason or the other and think they can just "vote it away".
Hitler never got elected either, he just took the power and the masses thought (because only a few whackos were protesting) that this was "all good".
Point is: As long as you still have media, better do soemthing.
BTW, having lived both in the US and now in Canada (and grown up in Europe) I can tell you one key difference between the two countries: Here in Canada there is still a discussion going on, and intimidation tactics I haven't seen yet either.
The US is no longer considered the ideal place for many types of businesses, and anti-american sentiments are definitely growing in europe and asia.
How is it anti americanism when people just decide they don't want to play by our YOUR rules in THEIR countries or if they decide NOT to visit the US because they don't want to be fingerprinted by "Big Brother"?
Sure, you can call it Juvenile that Brazil is fingerprinted US citizens, but that doesn't mean hate.
As the current administration is so fond of the Bible:
"Do unto others as you want done unto yourself" (very badly, on the fly translated from German to English, and I am sure the James Bible says it differently).
Point is: If I have the choice between doing business in a country where I don't feel like I am the enemy and doing business in the US, where do you think I would be going? Isn't that what "free market is all about?
M. (Disclaimer: German National, living in Canada and NO interest whatsoever to go back to the states any time soon.)
Canada has a very lax foreigner friendly and immigration policy. Especially if companies go waving around money about 'investing in Canada', the Canadian govt. will buy into it, because they (think) that this will create Canadian jobs rather than destroy them.
What are you smoking? Yes, Canada is friendlier and the way to get a Work Permit is a lot easier than doing this in the US, but "easier" doesn't mean they just roll over.
I am currently sitting here for almost 2 months waiting for my new Work Permit and the last update I got was that HRDC (who has to approve the job) is still fiddeling around with the paperwork.
Mind you, I am going to move from Toronto to Edmonton, a place where "talent" if you want to call it that, is a bit more scarce, but the point is that it costs companies money and a lot of time to hire foreigners, and I am not even Indian, I have a German passport.
Satyam opens his company (I wonder how many of his 120 employees in company in Canada are not Indian). Then bring in Indians/foreigners to do the work less than Canadians will.. (but the office wouldn't have been opened anyways if you couldnt do this, so the Cdn govt doesnt mind that much really).
The company has to proof for ANY employee they are hiring that is not landed or a citizen of Canada that they couldn't find a person who was. This takes (depending on the market) 4 - 8 weeks and a LOT of paperwork (Who else did they try to hire, how did they advertise the job etc. etc.).
So even if they have "indian" guys sitting there, those are most likely already landed immigrants or Canadian Citizens, especially Toronto has a large Indian / South East Asian population.
Then outsource the Indians in Canada, to US projects. Voila! Timezone and connectivity problems all go away because the cheap Indians are now in Canada and not India!
Not likely, the company would have to proof that every person they bring over from India HAS to be brought into the country because they couldn't find anyone local, and believe me HRDC in Toronto is nasty to deal with, I know, I did a couple of times.
What is more likely to happen is that they have some people here in Toronto who then delegate the work to the Indian Headoffice but that in and on itself isn't that bad in Canada, because the Canadian Subsidiary gets paid on the contract and pays it's taxes still in Canada.
Also, people on a Work Permit have to be paid "comparable wages", so you cannot simply hire an indian for 10% of what the Canadian would make AND unlike the US H1B the Work Permit belongs to ME not the Company, if I want to leave I can, I just have to find another company who wants to do the HRDC portion again, and the old company would never even know.
Then it gets even better! Unlike the USA, Canada has a very quick and easy naturalization process (takes only a few years), and then the Indians become 'Canadian' and get Canadian passports.
It takes around 2 1/2 years to get your landed papers, you have to apply in your country of Origin or (if you are already in Canada on a temporary permit) in Buffalo, after you have this paper in your hand it takes another 3 years before you can apply for Citizenship.
The Landed Status, btw, will cost you ~5K CAN, that includes language proficency tests, medical exams and a host of other things. 5K is a lot of dough for a dude in India.
Then, because of the NAFTA agreement, those Indians can come to America, and take Americans jobs as that is now a T1 Free trade visa, and not an H1B. T1s have no limit, anyone who wants one who is Canadian with a college education in IT can get one and move to the US.
The T1 ONLY applies to Canadian Citizens, by the time the guy has this he has already been in Canada for at least 5 years, chances are pretty good that by then he has settled and the last thing on his mind is moving to the states.
So no one in North America really benefits from this, not the Americans, nor Canadian IT people either..its a purely Indian play.
That is because the european "hostility" towards america(ns) is not against the peopel but against the way your government is treating the rest of the world.
Now, if you guys re-elect Bush (or Kerry acts the same way) this might change, but until Americans understand that their Government is their biggest marketing machine abroad they shouldn't be too surprised if there is an anymosity against America (as in the state, not the individual).
Slashdot Mirror
I am aware of the paper production, but it is easier to recycle the water in such an environment than in every single household. There literally is no reduce, reuse, recycle in the home these days.
Make the following the next time you are at a fast food store (whatever you frequent in the day) and try to think what is all invovled in the product you just buy.
I played that game a couple of times and it becomes scary very fast when you come to realize just how much stuff goes into even a cup of coffee.
Well,
unless you have a block heater your conventional car doesn't start either. So plug the car in at home and keep the batteries warm.
Cool,
wasn't aware of that...
Mainly because nobody ever considered the batteries to be a "maintenance" item in that fashion.
To "modulize" the power pack should be possible and make it easily exchangable as well. Just until now (and I guess for the forseeable future) this isn't high on their agenda.
But I don't see any TECHNICAL reasons why not? The logic can be centralized in the car, plus a small "logic unit" in each pack.
Heck, APC had "hot swappable" battery packs for their larger UPSs years ago, and if you look at someo f the OLD UPS systems you'll realize they look awfully similar to what the electric cars look today.
Correct, but that should be attainable, after all we all are using AA Batteries, so it should be possible for the manufacturers to come up with specific form factors.
That of course assumes they WANT it to succeed.
Break the battery packs up into modules, have a small conveyer belt that can move the packs around (or a small dolly), you just open a flap and slide the battery on the conveyer and the new one goes in in reverse. This shouldn't be too hard to do.
Correct, I would assume you would pay a monthly fee, plus a "fuel" charge on every exchange. It's a matter of economy of scale, the more cars, the cheaper it will become.
The infrastructure could center around major urban centers first. For the long haul, traditional fuel or even hydrogene could be used. Or (to really think ahead), building high speed rail links between major areas which would allow you to take the car along.
Think of a car the size of a SMART with the ability to travel 200miles on a battery, now combine this with a high speed train link and suddenly you have a system that could work for the majority of the people.
People who live in the country, on farms etc. clearly aren't a target, but they wouldn't be for an electrical car either, so they could be based on a Hydrogene based economy.
Well,
most of the current cars are still rather "experimental" and "proof of concept". I can imagine that a production car the battery exchange could be done differently (e.g. Swappabal battery "modules" like some of the large APC UPSs have them).
As for the different standards: At one point everybody in the car industry agreed to use certain gas specs, what speaks against certain form factors for teh batteries? The Car manufacturer could create a "supply" company that is handling all the battery needs, an additional revenue stream for the car companies.
My suggestion wasn't aimed towards this specific car. I am sure that a less powerful car that reaches maybe half the speed can go the same distance with less batteries and easier exchangable packs.
That was the idea behind it, you had a basic monthly "membership" and then you paid for each "refill" a small amount.
That idea actually is old, it was initially proposed back in Germany in the late 80s, the idea being used for Busses who would "drag" the battery on a cart behind them.
Yes, but a papercup decomposes, so in essence it doesn't add net to the waste pile.
Most cups, btw, aren't washed with cold water, but in a dishwasher. AND there is energy involved when it comes to the clean drinking water you get delivered to your home: Burying of pipes, pumping of water, cleaning etc.
Welcome to an interconnected world.
This was aimed towards the coffee cup at starbucks.
I can't find the link to the research right now, but consider this:
- The Material has to be pulled out of the earth.
- Shaped.
- Burned
- Transported (a lot heavier than a paper cup).
- The water / power that is used for the wash every time.
Also they calculated an "average" life time for a coffee cup in a place like Starbucks and the papercup came out ahead.
The other thing is: Once the paper cup is used up it could be "recycled" to compost and thus "brought back", while the ceramic cup is pretty much around for the rest of time.
A couple of years ago somoene suggested a "Battery Exchange".
Think of it like the Propane tanks you can exchange at the Home Depot or Supermarket. You just simply would drive up to the "gas station", the empty battery gets pulled out, and a charged one installed.
Done, no muss, no fuss, no waiting.
This would also make sure that you always have a working battery AND it could also lower the entry level as you wouldn't need to replace the battery pack every couple of months.
I guess that's a problem that many people never acccount for: The overall cost to the environment.
Granted, one of the ESB takes less power, but how much energy does it take to make one?
Same goes, btw, with the papercup at the coffee shop. It might seem more environmental friendly to take the normal ceramic cup, but if you factor everything in one comes to realize that the papercup is actually better for the environment.
I've heard that from a couple of people who live near the border, but it seems that once you're further south: Nada.
And there are also "security certificates" which can be leveled against non Canadian Citizens, also the government CAN revoke ones citizenship (so in theory:
1. Revoke Citizenship
2. Issue Security Certificate
3. Throw away Key
The CBC..... Dangerous news, could undermine the President.
Actually the most intersting difference between the two documents is that MOST of the points in the Canadian Charter of Rights apply to ANY person on Canadian soil, NOT just citizens.
There are some expections, but that is something that differentiates the two countries as well. The US Constitution grants its rights only to US Citizens, Canada is a lot more open there, as long as you are a human being, you're pretty much covered.
How is it anti americanism when people just decide they don't want to play by our YOUR rules in THEIR countries or if they decide NOT to visit the US because they don't want to be fingerprinted by "Big Brother"?
Sure, you can call it Juvenile that Brazil is fingerprinted US citizens, but that doesn't mean hate.
As the current administration is so fond of the Bible:
"Do unto others as you want done unto yourself" (very badly, on the fly translated from German to English, and I am sure the James Bible says it differently).
Point is: If I have the choice between doing business in a country where I don't feel like I am the enemy and doing business in the US, where do you think I would be going? Isn't that what "free market is all about?
M.
(Disclaimer: German National, living in Canada and NO interest whatsoever to go back to the states any time soon.)
Yeah I suggest to those people that they should one day try to go through the "lax" process and see how they feel afterwards.
Hey, as you are in Edmonton, can you drop me a line? I have some questions.
What are you smoking? Yes, Canada is friendlier and the way to get a Work Permit is a lot easier than doing this in the US, but "easier" doesn't mean they just roll over.
I am currently sitting here for almost 2 months waiting for my new Work Permit and the last update I got was that HRDC (who has to approve the job) is still fiddeling around with the paperwork.
Mind you, I am going to move from Toronto to Edmonton, a place where "talent" if you want to call it that, is a bit more scarce, but the point is that it costs companies money and a lot of time to hire foreigners, and I am not even Indian, I have a German passport.
The company has to proof for ANY employee they are hiring that is not landed or a citizen of Canada that they couldn't find a person who was. This takes (depending on the market) 4 - 8 weeks and a LOT of paperwork (Who else did they try to hire, how did they advertise the job etc. etc.).
So even if they have "indian" guys sitting there, those are most likely already landed immigrants or Canadian Citizens, especially Toronto has a large Indian / South East Asian population.
Not likely, the company would have to proof that every person they bring over from India HAS to be brought into the country because they couldn't find anyone local, and believe me HRDC in Toronto is nasty to deal with, I know, I did a couple of times.
What is more likely to happen is that they have some people here in Toronto who then delegate the work to the Indian Headoffice but that in and on itself isn't that bad in Canada, because the Canadian Subsidiary gets paid on the contract and pays it's taxes still in Canada.
Also, people on a Work Permit have to be paid "comparable wages", so you cannot simply hire an indian for 10% of what the Canadian would make AND unlike the US H1B the Work Permit belongs to ME not the Company, if I want to leave I can, I just have to find another company who wants to do the HRDC portion again, and the old company would never even know.
It takes around 2 1/2 years to get your landed papers, you have to apply in your country of Origin or (if you are already in Canada on a temporary permit) in Buffalo, after you have this paper in your hand it takes another 3 years before you can apply for Citizenship.
The Landed Status, btw, will cost you ~5K CAN, that includes language proficency tests, medical exams and a host of other things. 5K is a lot of dough for a dude in India.
The T1 ONLY applies to Canadian Citizens, by the time the guy has this he has already been in Canada for at least 5 years, chances are pretty good that by then he has settled and the last thing on his mind is moving to the states.
Geez, tone down your fear a bit, will ya?
Hehe,
:)
where are you from originally? And I left Germany almost 7 years ago
MMmhh, you British..... :)
MMMhhh, last time I went to London (on a plane) from Germany ('98?) I didn't have my passport with me, and nobody asked me for it either...... Odd.
Michael
That is because the european "hostility" towards america(ns) is not against the peopel but against the way your government is treating the rest of the world.
Now, if you guys re-elect Bush (or Kerry acts the same way) this might change, but until Americans understand that their Government is their biggest marketing machine abroad they shouldn't be too surprised if there is an anymosity against America (as in the state, not the individual).