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What's Going On in Canada?
Jack Action writes "Up in Canada, the Privacy Commissioner of the province of British Columbia is recommending an immediate freeze on all outsourcing of public data to US-connected firms, Reuters and the CBC are reporting. After extensive consultations, the Privacy Commissioner has found that the USA Patriot Act threatens the private data of citizens even if they don't live in the USA (repeat: non-Americans are at risk). You can visit the Commissioners website, and download a summary or the full report." And reader digity writes "The long-standing Canadian battle on grey-market satellite dishes took a surprising turn in a Quebec courtroom yesterday. The grounds: freedom of expression. Yet another reason to come to the Great White North!"
Shouldn't that be: "What's going on in the USA?"
I should buy some cement.
Let me be the first to congratulate Canada on now being able to watch free DirecTV again. While us americans get sued for buying card programmers.
Let freedom ring.
> has found that the USA Patriot Act threatens the private data of citizens even if they don't live in the USA (repeat: non-Americans are at risk).
Citizens of USA ?. ... then they are Americans right ?. A citizen of Canada's patriotism shouldn't affect US of A's well being ?.
(exceptions will be citizens of Vietnam, Laos and Iraq).
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
The grass is always greener...
Everything I know about Canada I learned from watching Ren and Stimpy.
At least this post is on-topic by making a comparison between the patriot act and being f#$@%& in the ass. I would have given it +5 insightful given the chance... :-)
Is it me or does it seem like the US is quickly losing it's place as the center of the business world? This seems especially true in the technology sector where anytime a company does something they have to look over their backs for some other company sitting on a patent, or a DMCA violation claim coming their way. This just seems like one more for the pile of reasons to do your business outside the U.S.
As a UK citizen, the US government has decided that it has a right to collect any information about me that it chooses, from any agency in the UK (because we are Americas lap dog and would never dream of saying no), and then use that info as it sees fit. My data is not protected in any way because I am not a US citizen.
Nice to see that Canada has the balls to stand up the the USA.
I assume this would be fairly common practice for some uses of that data, but basically: if you want to do anything with data, why not do it on-site? If some off-shore company was hired to process millions of government-held records, wouldn't the safest way be to let that company only produce software for that purpose, and 'apply' that software locally?
Can anyone give some compelling reasons why you would move that data itself (knowing that it's privacy-sensitive)? BTW: With 'off-shore' I mean any third party relative to the data involved.
In a world where Echelon is used for international corporate espionage, and where we've declared war on any country that we think is harboring terrorists, then why should anyone's privacy be protected?
Those damned pinko Canadians may be terrorists, and we need to protect ourselves.
Its ok, I have my tin foil hat. It keeps the government microwaves from reading my brain patterns.
Seriously folks, what does the patriot act allow the US government to do that it wasn't able to do before, just illegally? I mean, sure, it means they can do this stuff more in the open, but that doesn't mean that they weren't doing it before anyway.
The US Government has been the biggest customer of high-end computing firms for the past fourty years. What do they do with all that computing power? They use a lot of it to churn through the data we create. Not to look for ciminals, or mass murderers, or whatever - no - to look for people that could challenge the status quo, that could expose the real people behind the governments of the last fifty years who control the American people.
Come on, you've seen the X-Files! Its all real! ALL of it! NON FICTION, I tell you!
Are you ready to believe? TRUST NO ONE!
Firms in India are setting up shop in Canada as a front for their offshoring operations. Our confidential information that crosses in to Canada ends up in India. Canada's confidential data that crosses in to the United States ends up in... well, probably India.
Folks, we're witnessing a major coup. In the century where Information is Power, all of the information is going to one country - India! India is the new world power.
I found out that my Bank Visa card is vulnerable to this sort of crap because they've outsourced data management to an american firm. Guess what card just got the scissor treatment?
If enough Canadians who value their privacy take similar action we might see some amendments to the patriot act introduced. Fighting terrorism, etc. has been, and always will, be of secondary importance to the american government. It's business that really matters to them, and we're one of the few nations on Earth that do enough trade with the U.S. to place an effective ammount of pressure on them to do away with laws that compromise the privacy of citizens from other countries. At the very least we can pressure them into modifying the patriot act so that it only effects U.S. citizens. After all, did we elect Bush?
Okay okay... We don't really know who or *if* Bush was elected, but we damned well know it wasn't us who did it!
Hey, it's your right to live in a country which the rest of the world increasingly sees as the evil big brother. It's your right, to accept all it comes with it. And it's your right to call the article FUD-spreading. And it's my right to say you're one of those stupid AC's.
I just don't like a world where every sw developer who writes 2 lines of code needs to have bad dreams and his purse ready because some US big boy may come down on him at dawn. Where 2 friends can't share their stuff because some US or US-licking association could long for their money or threaten them otherwise. Where one can't copy an officially bought disk and give it to the little sister. Where my personal and communicational data can be freely snooped by US or US-licking agencies. Where for some words or a bad day and a sweating face one can be held for hours on a US/UK airport. Where one has to smile and finger the device (pun intended) like an ordinary criminal to enter a free country.
I won't go on, I'm picky this morning.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
And, just to piss off some neocon Bush babies who hate our freedom even more: remeber, we're half French!
Ô Canada!
Terre de nos aïeux,
Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux!
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
Il sait porter la croix!
Ton histoire est une épopée
Des plus brillants exploits.
Et ta valeur, de foi trempée,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits!
Whoo! Aaaaargoooos!! Strike, Leafs, strike!!!
OMFG!!! I want more.
Haha, seriously, this guy admitted to trolling in his name, why can't we just mod him up and let the porn geeks fight to outdo him? We let the SuicideGirls post commercials on here, why not let the greatest fucking pervs that ever lived duke it out for +5 Erotic?
Like take for example the case of medical data going o subcontractors in india, that data is handled unde r their (nearly nonexistant) laws in that regard.
The fact is, for some sort of data to be protected in todays world, you have to make sure not only of making laws on the data protection, but also put in proper limits of where it can be handled.
The European union Personal data directives try to make rules on this, forbidding transfer of such data outside EU.
Too bad they caved in to US pressure on airtrafic part of it...
and unlike the UK they aren't afraid to use it. Bloody Tony Blair is so far up the Yanks arse he can tickle their tonsils. To Canada I salute you!
I for one welcome our new pro-privacy overlords!
Bloggy Goodness
The US is no longer considered the ideal place for many types of businesses, and anti-american sentiments are definitely growing in europe and asia.
With more and more privacy-invading legislation being installed, the US will rapidly become unusable to any business that has trade secrets to protect, or deals with private customer data.
Canada has put in a nice document with recommendations what most of the world already knows and acts on.
- the sky is falling!
Nope, that is not technically possible.
- the Patriot Act endangers everyone!
Nope. Big brother doesn't endanger himself, he endangers others to protect himself.
- it's OK to be a terrorist!
Nope.
- you have everything to fear, including fear itself!
Yep!
In summary I think your bullets are slightly innacurrate, although you nailed the 'be afraid' part. It is scary out there!!
--- "End Of Line" - MCP
I'm tired of correcting people. Okay fine, living in a country where you can be drafted, abducted, silenced, spied on and imprisoned by the government whenever a politician feels like it is freedom. It was your choice to be born in the US and its your right to have the government's fist up your ass.
Also you get to say FUD! Neat, huh? That makes you more free than an Afghan prisoner.
I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
The fact that a Canadian firm has a US parent doesn't excuse that company from giving away data entrusted to it by any Canadian government to any other firm or government not authorized to receive it by the same Canadian government.
That's called espionage and treason, baby...
Cheers.
i - This sig provided by
The power that this gives is huge. (Does some senior politician have a mistress or do private business with a drug dealer?--Amdocs has the information. Etc. And Slashdotters are surely familiar with data mining.) Many people have claimed that this power has been abused by the Israeli government--in particular, by Mossad--and such power obviously facilitates espionage. Whatever abuses have occurred, it seems insane to give this much power to a foreign agency.
For references and links to more information (there's lots, and it's downright scary), google for "Amdocs" and "Comverse Infosys".
It's mainly used by the police to look for marijuana grow-ops. I just hope the police chopper flying overhead isn't watching my heat signature as I'm taking a dump or viewing internet pr0n. :-) The Court's full decision is here.
This is something we should all, in Canada, fight to prevent. In the case of US firms or US citizens, Canadians shouldnt have a right to tell the US how to dictact its policy, but when it comes to Canadian citizens, the US should keep its nose out of where its not wanted. Another thing that irks me, is that this sort of information sharing between countries has been going on for a long long time. Most countries do not have a 'patriot act' to allow blantant civil rights abuses [ie: No privacy for John and Jane Doe .. irregarless if they bear reason for investigation or not.] Counrties frequently monitor other countries information transactions, and then sell them back to the country of origin. Its a way for them to circumnavigate around privacy laws and legislation.
If you are outraged about this, then do something about it. But remember, this is WAY deeper than what you think, and I can bet that if you have ever had a phone conversation where your speaking about a game that includes the words bomb, kill, or president, your name has come up in a database and your calls monitored ... just long enough to verify if your a legitimate threat, or just some gamer with an over-active imagination.
What a shame, I always thought the USA would start the war with Canada! Now they are just askin for it...
The United States has been at war with Canada since 1812. Sure there was a cease fire and an arbitration, but IIRC there was never an official treaty.
Since the UK has stricter rules than the US (the Data Protection Act), US firms handling data from the UK have to agree to follow them. (A "safe harbour agreement"). If the Patriot Act means they can't guarantee to follow the rules... then no UK company can legally send data to America.
This would extend to any data at all in which a person is uniquely identifiable...
How can someone choose where they themselves are born?
OLPC Australia
Christ, our (Americas) best hope for policy reform lies in other countries being outraged at said policies?
From the summary: All levels of government in Canada must ensure that their laws are consistent with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and that their policies and actions do not off end Charter protections. Several submissions suggested that putting British Columbians' personal information at risk of seizure under the USA Patriot Act might confl ict with privacy protection under the Charter. While we do not analyze this question, we acknowledge that Canadian courts require Charter values and rights to be considered in interpreting legislation such as BC's FOIPPA.
So I decided to look up this charter, and I found it. Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which goes to unusual lengths to tell the world that French and English are it's official languages.
Then I decided to look for the US Bill of Rights, which is located not on a website with the words "law" and "justice" in the URL, but rather on "archives.gov" and what I'm reading is a Transcript of the Bill of Rights, as if it's chronicling an event and not informing me of my rights.
And I noticed the transcript of the Fifth Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger , and I contrasted it with Canada's charter: 9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned. 10. Everyone has the right on arrest or detention a) to be informed promptly of the reasons therefor; b) to retain and instruct counsel without delay and to be informed of that right; and c) to have the validity of the detention determined by way of habeas corpus and to be released if the detention is not lawful. Period, end of sentance, no "except."
Is America more interested in the history of it's laws than in the current reality? Are we, under the Patriot Act, in a constant state of "public danger" and therefore subject to being held, as I've heard people have been, without being told the crime they're being held for, with no court date, and no trial. What a strange, and convoluted time we live in that we are in a constant state of being the exception and not the rule.
He's my hero for standing up the US. When will the world realise that it does not have to take shit from the US?
You're not very good at detecting sarcasm, are you ?
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/britia n/ghent.htm
So the Treaty of Ghent doesn't count?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Sounds good but commissioner Bolkestein considered the US statements about data protection sufficient. .
For this great feat he has just earned himself the Dutch Big Brother Award for 2004.
See Bits of Freedom
The European Parliament has called on the European Court of Justice to declare the agreement null and void, a ruling by the Court can at the earliest be expected by next year.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Pretty much. Sadly, your country doesn't seem to be doing much to fix those policies.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Anyone storing data about you must conform to the Data Protection Act, where it explicitly states "it is immaterial that it is intended to be so processed or to form part of such a system only after being transferred to a country or territory outside the European Economic Area". Your data IS protected because you are a UK citizen. The Data Protection Registrar takes any breaches very seriously and can be contacted via their web site.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
The best parts of it are the strip bars. Don't know what it's like now but 20 years ago we used to go up there just to spend the evening at Jason's or the Latin Quarter because the women were incredibly naked and incredibly beautiful and the exchage rate made it cheaper per dance or drink than going to an american bar right across the border. Walk down the street at 2AM and you could find old people out strolling or eating at a sidewalk cafe. And they have that great healthcare system and a penal system that seems to genuinely be about reform rather than revenge.
Don't want to leave canada? Just wait until a couple more generations get raised on that violent american TV you're so eager to import. Detroit is right across the river and, unlike the beer sellers at tiger stadium, the people who sell black market guns don't give a shit where you're from.
I do think making it illegal for someone to "import" american tv into their own home is absurd. Nice to see one government is figuring out prohibition never works. But no matter how stupid the law it's easy to see the motivation for it.
Better legalize that profitable black market drug trade before the culture shift moves in. The gunsellers are waiting...
so the UK is going to pass these "privacy" laws to bar corporations from exchanging data that people willingly provide to them?
I wonder what they're going to do with those laws requiring ISPs to keep detailed logs for years.
Well isn't that some grand consolation? Even if you do have the government fishing through logs in search of wankers looking at kinderpix or anything else it might find objectionable it's ok, because you, at least, don't have to worry about Yahoo selling your email address.
Yeesh.
Are we surprised? Everyone knows the USA is Israel's bitch!
--
USA: home of the world's largest terrorist training camp.
Is it that the Canadian government suddenly felt concern for civil liberties or that DirecTV got rid of an annoying law that allows them to make more money and it just happens to benefit the general population.
I am sure DirecTV would have been even more thrilled if the court had ruled they are the only satellite tv provider of Canada.
"repeat: non-Americans are at risk"
It amaze me that in 2004 there is still a moron who can write : Canadian are not American.
Whe suddenly got a new continent : the Canadian continent ? Whe discovered America so WHE ARE "THE AMERICAN"
WHE live in a democracy unlike the Etats-Unians who live in a republic.
C ourageous
A mericans
N oble
A mericans
D efender of
A mericas
its even bilingual
C ourageux
A mericains
N oble
A mericains
D efenseur des
A meriques
Obviously something needs to change. All this terror-paranoia is not normal. We, the Europeans, also suffered attacks in Madrid but we didn't pass laws like that. We didn't get mad. We do fight terror, but we do not destroy our civilisation of democracy and freedom just to catch some crazy terrorists.
I hope the USA legislators will understand that they can fight their enemies without undermining the privacy and freedom of Americans (and the world!). I believe that laws like PATRIOT aren't needed.
BTW I wrote a story with some more information here. As you can read, the probe started in May and produced a report consisted of more than 100 pages. The report was written by OIPC, a Canadian authority on privacy issues in British Columbia.
Remember than in Canada its also legal to share music and movies (as long as you don't sell them). Several provinces now allow gay marriage, and most politicians favour decriminalizing (though not legalizing) marijuana.
On the other hand, while many Canadians own rifles and shotguns, most of us are not allowed to carry concealed weapons; also, provinces are starting to ban smoking in all public places, and the federal government regulates how much foreign content radio and TV stations are allowed to show.
So, in brief, if you're an MP3-sharing, pot-smoking, gay privacy freak, c'mon up and join us; if you're a gun-toting, tobacco-smoking, Baywatch-watchin' law-and-order freak, you might be happier staying down in the U.S.
Where one has to smile and finger the device (pun intended) like an ordinary criminal to enter a free country.
I would like to point out to you, citizen, that you are exaggerating: people are not allowed to smile! C'mon get your facts straight!
A witty saying is worth nothing - Voltaire
This is a good thing. Having competition - for privacy, freedom from regulation, freedom in general, taxes etc - will only help advance your liberty. It won't be instant of course, but every bit of competition for things people want, e.g. freedom, is a good thing
Like take for example the case of medical data going o subcontractors in india, that data is handled unde r their (nearly nonexistant) laws in that regard.
If I know my India well, there are probably 3,283 laws, 6,798 sections, 12,564 subsections and 24,345 amendments dealing with privacy issues.
Knowing India further, they all contradict each other and nobody enforces them.
While it's surely a good thing that people will soon have the option of receiving foreign (i.e. States) programming, we need to look at the big picture.
m l#1097586698
:-D But free speech is rapidly becoming more and more restricted. I believe that despite what's going on in the States, they have more liberties in this regard and quite frankly, I'm jealous!
What a lot of people don't realize is the gradual demise of free speach in Canada.
Want to be fined for calling someone a queer? Maybe you deserve a bloody lip, but does 1000$ from your pocket sound better? An excellent summary of what's going on can be found on the Volokh Conspiracy (I stumbled upon it by chance): http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_10_07.sht
Moreover, the recent controversy surrounding the refusal of the federal communication commission (CRTC) to renew the licence of a Québec-based private radio station on the grounds that its content was inacceptable. This link, in French, provides a good résumé: http://www.quebecoislibre.org/04/040915-15.htm (Other articles include a history of the Canadian government censorship of private broadcasters.) If the libertarian blog "Le Québécois Libre" isn't to your taste, you can surely find the story on the CBC's or Radio Canada's web site.
Canada is a great place. Québec even better.
it should be "whats going on in canada, eh?'
This is an example of why the US citizenry has the strange experience of people from all over the globe pitching in on their election. The empire (that they don't have) consists of surveillance, business interests, and >700 military bases installed in foreign countries.
Yes, who wins your election will have hegemony (well, dominating power) over us. It IS our business.
Damn those pesky terrorists
And reader digity writes "The long-standing Canadian battle on grey-market satellite dishes took a surprising turn in a Quebec courtroom yesterday. The grounds: freedom of expression. Yet another reason to come to the Great White North!" - actually as a Canadian I see a problem with this. The problem is that if everyone in Canada is allowed to watch/listen to the US content then our local radio/tv stations will be obliterated. Maybe not instantly but within 1-2 years for sure.
The reason is that the USA is much richer, much mor powerful and has much more money. It is a simple fact that even in the USA there are only a few major players in the radio-land who everyone recognizes almost immediately (Rush Limbaugh, anyone?) So what is going to happen to our local news stations is that they will quickly become non-profitable.
Yes, what I am saying is that without regulations in a free market Canadian programming will not survive against the neighbour in the South.
I don't watch TV (don't even have one) but it is nice to know that if I turn to Pulse 24 it covers Canadian news.
I do however listen to radio every morning and in the evening while driving to and from work. I LIKE listenning to the AM radio, because it is allmost all talk-shows that carry Canadian point of view.
I do not want to have to listen to the major USA radio stations in the morning, who have nothing to do with the place where I live.
Yes, sure, in Toronto CFRB 1010 will still survive and the MOJO radio (640) will probably still continue. But what about the rest of the stations. The smaller places, even Ottawa? Will the local news even exist there anymore? I doubt it.
So, while it is seen as great by many, that canadians could be allowed by the canadian judges to buy grey-market equipment to listen to american programming, I see it as a huge mistake, that will bring on the demise of our local programming, which implies the demise of our culture. That is simply because there will be no culture if there will be no point of our different point of view.
Well, personally, I may have nothing against becoming the next state of the USA, I WANT a 2-tier health system. But the rest of you, Canadians, don't be surprised when in a decade from now, if this is allowed, there will be only 1-tier - American Style health system. And you will be listenning to the King George Bush the Third on your radio stations, and you will be wondering about what happened to those old local stations and news and what happened to this country.
You can't handle the truth.
sarcasm != stupidity
it means the federal government will no longer be able to control what Canadians watch on TV.
This is the key part of the whole DTV squable. The government wants am does control what Canadians watch. Hell, there are shows shown in the US today, made in Canada that Canadians can't view!! When in the US I used to joke about this in watching Outer Limits.
The government spends over 1 billion dollars per year on CBC, a government run television. It fosters anti-American we-they politics.
The bad part is the government can replace the judge, and try it again and again. So this is far from over. We Canadians need Direct TV to officially set up shop in Canada. And at $100 per month for Canadian programming (no movie channels) there is a market.
The Canadian government does this to sedate Canadian's who generally are over taxed and to keep them like sheep, happy and quiet.
And in all probable, the guy paid a premium rate to someone with a US billing address to get the service.
And this came from a Canadian.
If DirecTV was not doing business in a specified country but the footprint of the satellite signal was "bleeding" into that country are you stealing the service if you decrypt the signal? The company has no legal existence in that country, so it does not own anything.
The FBI has been collecting data on the American populace for decades. Hell, when my grandpappy was building his new house, some men in suits came to him one day and they just started putting up these wires and antennaes 'cus grandpa was in the service. He jus' tol' me to hush up and go play with my sister and for the rest of the day he was all quiet like. America's ne'er had free speech.
TY!
It's not just Canada. Many european nations are concerned, too. There was a scandal over here recently because the EU Commission gave approval to the exchange of airline customer data against the wishes of the EU Parliament and against massive outcry from privacy advocates.
The US is generally seen as a country with very little privacy protection.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
let's mobilize the Coast Guard Reserve, invade Canada and make it the 51st state ...
should take about a week ..
They are right to be concerned. We have no problem trampling on the rights of their own citizens, why on earth would you think we would respect the rights of other countries? We've let fear justify anything we think is necessary.
We don't deserve to lead the world, we don't deserve respect and you're certainly right not to trust us.
And, speaking of trust, we trust foreign nations with mountains of data about US citizens. Medical records, financial histories, you name it. Properly aggregated it's everything they'd need to build a very complete dossier on just about anyone. This would seem like an obvious security hole, but we're experts at straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Yet another reason to come to the Great White North!
Ouch.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
This radio station *really* had unnaceptable content (a.k.a nearly neo-nazi content). It's a good thing they're shutting them up (It isn't even shut yet!). Your freedom starts where other's freedom ends.
perception is reality
For those of you that think Canada is some free paradise, let me just immediately, as a Canadian, disavow you of that notion.
If Canada is being held-up as superior to America when it comes to freedom, compared to the United States, even in spite of recent attempts to limit freedom down there, then either people's definition of what freedom is has changed, or we have become so desparate as a civilization that we no longer know what up and what's down anymore. Canada is, socially, an extremely repressive country, especially these days. Forget about being an individual up here, coz it ain't on. If you do not conform to the prescribed standards, you are ostracized and marginalized. I see it all the time every day up here. We are not an innovative country, we don't like it. Anyone that tries to engage in it in Canada is looking for trouble, and it doesn't particularly matter what kind of innovation it is, they just don't like it here. You need only compare the Canadian and American constitutions to know what Canada is really all about. Americans have the "...right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Canadians have the "...right to peace, order, and good government". Wow, lucky us. Those are exactly the kind of conditions dictators have been providing since dictators have existed.
I once had an English professor of mine make the statement that "...people have this foolish notion that lifestyle is a human right". In other words, people have this crazy idea that they're allowed to live their lives as they wish (so long as they're not affecting others, of course), without fear of molestation from anyone. This man is about as deeply Establishment as anyone gets. He married into money, was born in Britain, has had a direct role in formulating federal and provincial government social policy in the past, has been the head of English departments in highschools and schoolboards. I could go on, because the list of his accomplishments is lenghty, and the reach of his influence is far, but you get the point.
Ask any average person in the middle class up here how they feel about a given controversial topic, and wonder at the conservative response you get. Speak in public say, in a cafe, about that same topic and observe the dirty "shut-the-fuck-up" looks you get. You are not entitled to your own opinion up here, or to even criticize. If you go there, you can expect direct, serious social consequences. Once I was talking, in a park, about a play my spouse and I had gone to see. I held a different view than everyone else about the central conflict in the story. Some lady that had been listening in, a complete stranger, had the audacity to approach me and order me to 'stop being so different, stop having a different opinion'.
THAT, my friends, IS Canada. Get in line, conform, and dont make a fuss. This attitude crosses generation, class, and gender lines. That is the truth of Canada and, in a greater sense, the world we live in today. If you are worried about your freedoms being taken away from you, my American friends, don't hold up Canada as a model of how things should be. Most Canadians regard indiviual freedom as dangerous, and only "OK" so long as they don't threaten the current established order. In other words, any antithetical opinion is automatically a threat, and must be quashed by any means neccessary.
I found out that my Bank Visa card is vulnerable to this sort of crap because they've outsourced data management to an american firm. Guess what card just got the scissor treatment?
I discovered a notice included with my Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce Visa statement a month ago that says that data related to my Visa card and its transactions may be held in the U.S. and subject to U.S. laws such as the Patriot Act. I forwarded it on to several Members of Parliament and it is currently being investigated by the Privacy Commissioner. I am told to expect a report in two months.
In the mean time, don't expect any other Canadian bank's Visa cards to be any different as they all, to varying degrees, store information in the United States or do business with subsiduaries of U.S. businesses. All Canadian credit card transactions are likely subject to the Patriot Act!
Some of you may recall Carolyn Parrish is one of our less diplomatic MPs. Well, since she is so vocal I wrote to her because I already knew how she felt about the Patriot Act. Here is our email exchange:
My email to her:
Sent: October 18, 2004 4:52 PM
To: Parrish, Carolyn - M.P.
Subject: Canadian credit card records subject to US Patrio Act?
Dear Ms. Parrish,
Let me begin by thanking you for your outspoken stand against Canada's involvement in the US missile defence shield. I share many of your concerns.
[A little sucking up never hurts... and I do share her concerns and not just because it's a big hole to dump money down]
I am writing to you today because I recently received an update to the terms of service for my CIBC Visa card that concerns me. The terms of services have been updated with a statement saying that information relating to my Visa card and its transactions are subject to the laws of the United States and in particular the U.S. Patriot Act.
As you may know, the Patriot Act significantly reduces the checks on U.S. government surveillance and information gathering methods. I am concerned that Canadian banks and their clients are being subjected to foreign laws which run counter to many of the privacy expectations held by Canadians and enforced by Canadian law. I appreciate that when Canadians travel abroad they are subject to the laws of the country they are visiting, but in this case Canadians are being subjected to foreign laws even while they are within Canada and their transactions are taking place wholly within Canadian territory. Is this not against Canadian privacy protection laws?
Yours truly,
My name removed
Her response to me
Dear Mr. my name removed,
We're on the case!
I'm including the notice that I've included in my Householder that goes out to 40,000 households. I've also sent a letter to all 308 members of Parliament. An organization in my riding has made a complaint to the Privacy Commissioner.
In initial discussions with her, we've been thodl [sic] this initial complaint will elicit a thorough investigation and will probably result in a change of policy at CIBC and the other institutions that farm out their credit card operations to a U.S. managemnt company.
You're one of only three human beings that actually read that little insert! Well done.
Best wishes,
Carolyn Parrish, MP
Mississauga-Erindale
The newsletter that she attached and sent out to all the people in her constituency:
Buyer Beware!
Dear Constituents, In the October CIBC Visa bills, buried amongst many colourful flyers, there was a small insert (black print on white) informing its 5 million visa credit card customers "CIBC is making some changes to the CIBC Visa cardholder agreement. The first change incorporates wording to clarify cardholder privacy rights by providing information by CIBC, or by other persons...These changes become effective on October 1, 2004."
It goes on to clearly lay out h
Here are a few of things for you socialists:
Mammograms used to be "provided"(assuming that you can even get an appointment) on the recomended annual basis, but this has now been changed to once every FIVE years.
Try to find a physician willing to take you as a patient.
Try to get an MRI sometime in the near future.
Oh yeah, and once your physician makes his mandated income for the year, he usually takes off on vacation or otherwise does not work as a physician until he can pay his bills again by working as a physician(i.e. the next fiscal year).
Foreign health care is a frightening thing. If you are ever critically I'd get home ASAP, as most physicians that I know if they are critically ill only want to be stabilized in a foreign country and moved to a US hospital ASAP if feasible. The main reason medical care in this country is so is partially because of the EXTREME cost of medical school, and the WAY beyond extreme cost of liability in this lawsuit happy country.
Personally, I have a deep love and respect for Canada (including Quebec) and her people, based on spending many years up there and would live and work up there if presented the opportunity. However, before you start immigrating to Canada in massive droves, understand what you are getting into.
a .html for an example.
:).
...
Freedom of Speech? Canda has a wonderful section in its criminal code prohibiting willful promotion of hatred against identifiable groups (s. 319(2)) http://www.hrcr.org/safrica/limitations/r_keegstr
Just Google on "willful promotion of hatred" and "Canada" for examples on how this statute is being used. If I were to utter the phrase "Slashdot readers really need to get a life and maybe a girlfriend". That theoretically could fall under the Criminal Code
Then of course you will have to stomach:
Lower wages
Higher Taxes:
>50% of your income between Federal and Provincial taxes (if you're a technogeek like me and get paid for it)
Last time I looked, 9% Provincial sales tax (depending on the province) + 7% Federal GST on goods purchased in Canada.
Then there is of course the politics. If you like politics in the U.S. you will *love* them in Canada. Watching the proceedings in the House of Commons gives new meaning to the phrase "spirited debate".
Do you like unions in the U.S.? You'll love them in Canada. Think about what it means when the nurses go on strike, or the postal service, or
I could go on. Like any other country, Canada has its good as well as bad points. Make sure you understand what those are and can live with them before you pack up your bags and go.
You still have to pay for the sat service, not doing so is theft.
However; gettting CA tv in the US also requires some
subterfuge. Yes some people like CA tv!
Two examples; Royal Ca Air Farce, 22 minutes, the National, french language programing, Le Porte des Attoilles (star gate). (so I can't count).
Yes, they hit the USA hard, as well as the Netherlands, also...
FOX News had a good 4-part series on this, but pressure from various forces got it wiped-clean from the FOX News website.
whew! barely made it..
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
Didn't whatsisname humbly proclaim himself "Leader of the free world"? 'Leader' translates, literally, to 'Führer' in German . . . NOT AGAIN PLEASE!!!!
--the problem is, we have a situation where about a half a dozen or so transnational corporations owz0rz "the big media" in the US. They let it be known right on down their news food chain what is appropriate and what isn't to cover, and how to do it. They have already been flooded with emails and snail mails and faxes and phone calls on any number of issues, and this goes way way back.
You have to look at those lofty economic levels for any change, because so far, they seem to dig what is going on. Perhaps they profit from it as well?
And people like to dfismiss it, but I'll throw it out anyway because it IS relevant,. You have to look at large semi secret megapower "groups" for what global policy will be, because they call the shots WAY more than national elections do, in the US, and in a lot of other nations as well. Groups like the Bilderbergers for instance.
I find it *amusing* that something like any random WTO meeting can have a ton of demonstrations around it, and a lot of international press coverage, yet something even more important like a global power elite bilderberger meeting is almost unnoticed, either by mainstream press and even in the alternative press and protest "community". It is very telling to me.
Outsourcing data to american companies won't stop, for two reasons: 1. most corporations that outsource private data really don't give a shit. 2. American companies would likely have grounds to sue under NAFTA if they lost business on these grounds.
So long, and thanks for all the Phish
also, if you'll notice something interesting: the cbc website has absolutely NO ADS on it.
compare that to CNN's stories which have at least 2 ads per page and a popup!
this is why all countries should have at least one publicly funded news agency.
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you implying that people use directory assistance to find mistresses and drug dealers?
Yet another reason to come to the Great White North!
I must start off by saying that I love my beloved Canada -- but I just want to add a dose of realism to this discussion. Canada is not a freedom-lovers paradise by any means. We have our fair share of problems which don't happen to be in the spotlight as much as the USA transgressions on freedom because it's not so unusual.
(1) We don't have free speech in Canada.
Hate a group of people, and want to say it in public? You're breaking the law, as Hate Speech is a violation of the criminal code. That's right, you can get fined or thrown in jail for something you said because others find it hateful. Whether you agree with this or not, it's certainly not near the ideal of free speech attempted by the USA's first amendment.
(2) Our constitution has an exemption clause.
The USA Constitution is set in stone, and can only be overridden by an amendment which is a very difficult process. Canada's constitution has a built-in "or maybe not" clause, letting politicians willfully violate our Charter of Rights and Freedoms if they want to in a process much simpler than in the USA. Again, this has benefits as well as drawbacks, but there are no absolute protections for rights like the USA constitution enshrines.
(3) We have our own "anti-terror" violations of due process.
In the USA you have the PATRIOT act and Guantanemo Bay, but here in Canada we have "Security Certificates". These are used against Muslims -- er, make that evildoers -- who are suspected of terrorist activities. They are handed out by a secret court and a secret judge, and the accused is not allowed to see the charges levied against him or her.
(4) Our media regulator is trigger happy.
In the USA you've got Stern being targeted and fined by the FCC, but the situation in Canada is little better. We are far more liberal about nudity and sexuality -- it's not uncommon to see full male or female nudity on broadcast television and we have shows on our cable networks that need to be censored on USA cable networks. But if you say something deemed hateful, you're not welcome.
During the brief period Stern was broadcast here, he ran afoul of the hate crimes police for poking fun on French-Canadians. More recently, they tried to revoke the radio license of the most popular station in Quebec City because one of the DJs made some off-colour remarks that were deemed hateful.
Anyhow -- I want to reiterate that I love living in Canada, and that I prefer it to the USA. But many Americans are under the false belief that it is a paradise of freedom, but we have our own warts too and the full truth deserves to be out there so people can make informed decisions.
501 Not Implemented
All this talk about how Canada is restricting everyones freedom (of speech) is just NOT true. From the research I did, I find just the opposite. What Canadians' (goverment) seems to want to project to the world is, that they want to protect people from ALL guns, ALL violent speech, etc. But in reallity, as seen in part here: http://www.evangelicalfellowship.ca/cwatch/article _viewer.asp?CW_Article_ID=24
:)
Facts speak louder than words. In the midddle of the article it clearly points out (in current law) that conversations in private do NOT fall under the law (as in the usa.) Furthermore, I have personal, first hand experience of the usa laws conserning 'threats in communications'. In Canada the accussed gets to prove whether he/she really meant a threat (ie. a REAL planned physical one), and whether he/she had spoken the truth (regardless of the pugnency of the words involved). Whereas in the 'land-of-the-free', the person who received the threat, gets to determine if the accussed is 'guilty', simply by stating that they 'felt threatened', which of course creates a land where the law is based soley on whatever is the popular political view of the prosecuter, as opposed to a single standard which everyone must be held up to.
As far as gun ownership, well, you'd think by nearly every article and reference in discussions, that guns are 'TOTALY BANNED' in Canada. This is not even close to the truth! Those who choose to hunt there legally, have enough guns to over-throw several small u.s. states!
So please, peoples, scratch the surface of any issue that seems to be so 'obviously' true, and usually you will find 'just the opposite'.
*JESUS for President
I will gladly loose all of life's battles.. in order to win the war..
To be able to speak on a radio frequency is a "privilege" the CRTC gives. And it gives this privilege as long as you don't say stupid things on it.
I could say "Hey! how come I can't have my own radio program? I want my speech freedom back!".
This silly "Jeff Fillion" can say *everything* he wants in the street, nobody is going to put him in jail. Thus, his speech freedom is respected.
Besides, even in the US, libel is illegal I think, and THAT is what he did.
If I could have my own radio station in the US, I would claim that dick cheney is a goddamn corrupted politician who pushed the war to get richer with halliburton. Without proofs, it would be libel, and my radio program would be shut down.
perception is reality
Tell me about it. I'm unfortunate enough to have to deal with Amdocs through work. The amount of power they hold translates directly into a piss poor attitude which makes them a NIGHTMARE to deal with in any business situation.
Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo - H. G. Wells
For those who think Canada is just USA with more freedom: FORGET IT! There are a lot of huge differences between Canada and USA that will not fit most Americans' lifestyles:
- Canada is foremost a socialist country, our government is huge and we want it to regulate everything vs American government that wants to be as small as possible.
- Money is NOT at the top of most Canadians' value system. While Canadians dream of becoming billionaires, naturally, most WILL put that dream on hold when needed by family and friends, or when it interferes with their morality or ethics (note I said MOST).
- And many more big and subtle differences.
Before you Americans pack up your bags and move here, look deep inside you and see if you agree with the totally different Canadian way of doing things. And NO, you will not be able to make us change our ways just because you think Americans are the best.
So what colour of propaganda was Bin Laden's speech? Was it white (truth), black (lies) or grey (you don't know)?
"Oh God help us. We're in the hands of engineers."
No, the Sharia law thing has been way overblown. Right now, some Jews are able to practise their own law code (Toranic law? Whatever it's called) to settle very small issues like small property claims and such. Some Muslim communities want the same right, but there is a lot of reservation because many feel it would seriously affect women's rights.
Anyway, the Muslims aren't going to own Canada. It will be the Chinese. You have no idea what's going on up here in that regard. When the Chinese emigrate, they bring China with them; there is no interest in integration. Vancouver is a divided city. At least the Mexicans share a European background with you.
The Chinese call us whites the "dog people". Blacks are referred to as "black shit". Those are common, everyday terms. That should tell you something about our tragically misguided immigration policy.
Honestly, how did it come to this?
I only began to understand this after reading about the Molson's I am a Candian! beer commercial a few years back. One line in it was "DIVERSITY, NOT assimilation". This completely puzzled me. Why would anyone be anti-assimilation? What's wrong with taking immigrants from every country in the world and turning them into productive, peaceful, proud American citizens? And then I realized it's only wrong if it points out your own deficiencies as a nation, one that threatens to dissolve itself everytime the French label on a box of twinkies is printed smaller than the English one.
And in the final irony Canadians pride themselves on not being jingoistic (again, proudly appropriating to themselves the opposite of some American trait) and yet, as the posts to this story show, rarely miss an opportunity to obnoxiously do their own chest-beating, especially when it can be done at the expense of the U.S.
Canadians, here is some friendly advise: GET A (national) LIFE! Stop trying to create an identity for yourselves that is merely the negation of someone else's. A good model for you, given your size and history, is Australia, a country whose residents:
Yet another reason to come to the Great White North!
Its ok, I have my tin foil hat. It keeps the government microwaves from reading my brain patterns.
This is WRONG!! chrome is a government COLLABORATOR, pretending to be an informative rebel in order to feed us DANGEROUS disinformation. DON'T LISTEN TO HIM!!
Just to clarify: Even the BEST Tin Foil* hat CANNOT prevent the government from READING your brain patterns. Tin Foil is useful to prevent MIND CONTROL but is COMPLETELY INEFFECTIVE at preventing MIND READING (more properly called MIND SCANNING). Do NOT make the MISTAKE of believing that you can think in SAFETY AND PRIVACY just because you're wearing Tin Foil.
If you want to be safe from MINDSCANS you need to ENCASE your head in at LEAST 1/4" of LEAD, or 1/16" of DEPLETED URANIUM. Also, make sure that there are NO CRACKS OR HOLES larger than 1/16". Yes this means that it's not possible to think and see at the same time. Some well-meaning FOOLS have claimed that lenses of LEADED CRYSTAL provide mindscan protection while allowing visibility but this is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.
Since you obviously CANNOT wear a lead helmet 24/7, anyone regularly thinking SUBVERSIVE THOUGHTS must also LEARN to CONTROL THEIR THOUGHTS WHEN UNPROTECTED! After YEARS of EXTENSIVE RESEARCH conducted in part by INFILTRATING the CIA, I have learned the ONLY way to do this EFFECTIVELY and AUTOMATICALLY. My method is based on the SAME techniques used to train CIA AGENTS to defend themselves against MINDSCANS. For only 26 LOW LOW monthly payments of $29.99 I will deliver DIRECTLY TO YOU a series of DVDs and PRINTED MANUALS that teach you QUICKLY AND EASILY to DEFEND YOURSELF agains MINDSCANS. I have to deliver these educational materials BY HAND, of course, because ALL of the postal and delivery services are TOOLS of the INTERNATIONAL CONSPIRACY HEADED BY THE ILLUMINATI UNDER THE GUISE OF THE UN.
Call quickly, supplies are limited.
* Pre-1987 Reynolds wrap is the best Tin Foil, by the way. Other brands were never sufficiently thick and post 1987 Reynolds has been modified at CIA REQUEST with MICROSCOPIC WAVEGUIDES that actually FOCUS the MIND CONTROL SIGNALS.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
I would prefer ads and corporate sponsorship to government sponsored misinformation any day...
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
Recent implementation of an Amdocs billing system by Bell Mobility (a major wireless provider) led to bills to many customers being delayed by a month or more--and the implementation had slipped at least two years behind schedule. It was a mess.
I can't speak to whether or not they're funneling information to Mossad--I'd tend to take that with a grain of salt.
~Idarubicin
Perhaps Bin Laden does have a point, and perhaps that's why he went nuts, some people who go insane are affacted by something in reality so much that they abandon all other reasoning.
Fine then we should use the old anthem! It sounds better anyway...
In Days of yore,
From Britain's shore
Wolfe the dauntless hero came
And planted firm Britannia's flag
On Canada's fair domain.
Here may it wave,
Our boast, our pride
And joined in love together,
The thistle, shamrock, rose entwined,
The Maple Leaf Forever.
[CHORUS]
The Maple Leaf
Our Emblem Dear,
The Maple Leaf Forever.
God save our Queen and heaven bless,
The Maple Leaf Forever.
At Queenston Heights and Lundy's Lane
Our brave fathers side by side
For freedom's home and loved ones dear,
Firmly stood and nobly died.
And so their rights which they maintained,
We swear to yeild them never.
Our watchword ever more shall be
The Maple Leaf Forever
[CHORUS]
Our fair Dominion now extends
From Cape Race to Nootka Sound
May peace forever be our lot
And plenty a store abound
And may those ties of love be ours
Which discord cannot sever
And flourish green for freedom's home
The Maple Leaf Forever
[CHORUS]
crazy dynamite monkey
"The A-bomb reference is particularly silly, considering it was simply the use of a weapon during wartime"
:
Actually, the second Abomb was dropped AFTER japan surrendered, because
1 / It was ready to be dropped and
2/ because it was slightly different in concept from the first, and american scientist/military wanted to see first hand effects.
"Outside self-defense or defense of others, there are very few legitimate reasons to kill"
I tend to agree with you on this one, alas it seems USA have more of a "Because I can" attitude...
You're misunderstanding....
"Since I don't mind high taxes, the welfare state aspect doesn't bug me much"
All the 'welfare' state is is an insurance type policy but the government is the insurance company and the payments are paid via taxes.
As well we can afford our 'welfare' state because we're the only G8 country whose government is running a surplus. One shouldn't confuse welfare state with fiscal imprudence.
1. your site's unreachable.
2. "Swedish, but resident in the UK since 1996".
Why did you leave? I'm curious, because I'm evaluating places to emigrate.
Email me.
excellent idea.
btw, are you in Canada?
I'm looking for places to emigrate.
Where are you?
Another Canadian replies. ...
... Anti Hate laws protect you from being victimized by hate promoting groups. The safety of individuals outweighs the right to say what you want. This for example prevents you from being able to stand on a soap box and scream out that we should kill all the jews, send the blacks back to africa, and force women to wear burqa's. In Vancouver, a muslim leader is presently under police investigation for inciting hate. A few white supremecist bastards have been taken down in Canada with these laws too, while their counterparts in the USA run free, brain washing kids into thinking black people are in fact not people. ... Do you think that americans have Freedom of Speech? Why did Bush have the police force protestors to protest several blocks away from where he held an election rally (in 2000) instead of letting them protest at the rally like you can in Canada? ... the Vote is a type of free speech, why did Bush's friends deny the vote to 20,000+ blacks in Florida in 2000 that were fully eligible to vote? The USA does not have freedom of speech.
.. the station's entire theme is hateful attacks on anyone and everyone with no basis in truth at all, as if it is some kind of entertainment! How bout we make you their target for a week or so! How long have you been beating your wife? When was your first gay experience? How many kids have you molested? ... let's see how you like it!
1.
2. Yes, we have the 'not withstanding clause' that lets Quebec blatantly violate the rights of English speaking people. But, at least we don't just ignore the constitution, letting laws like the Patriot Act stand unchallenged that completely break multiple sections of the US Constitution. The Patriot Act has killed the 4th and 6th amendments to the US constitution. In Canada a judge would have struck down the Patriot Act right away, protecting our rights.
3. not true (the canadian part), you're a sucker.
4. The French DJ did not simply make an off-colour remark or two that were deemed hateful
Or some other american wanna be town. Maybe it's the crowds you hang out with. Maybe it's the places you hang out in. One example of someone who wasn't even born here hahaha, way to prove your point.
But hey, I heard you speak, you speak, you sound like you want us to have more liberties... What is it exactly that you want to do? Have you tried and failed?
Were the looks that you got when you spoke your mind maybe those of people who didn't understand? Maybe they thought you looked funny? For some reason I heard what you said and I hate you already, why is that? I don't think it has anything to do with my government.
One thing about this place is intent. If your intentions are ok then people will listen but flaming in public gets hate looks, intelligent discourse gets confused and angry looks. It's the same in most countries that have a city. Go to one please.
Or hadn't you heard ?
See, in canada it is ILLEGAL for anyone to say anything in public that can be construed as hate speech against _any_ group.
So for instance, a religious organization cannot express the sentiment that they beleive homosexuality is immoral and sinful.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Yes, here in Vancouver, in High school you must learn french if you want to enter university ... even though all you hear on SkyTrain in the morning is chinese dialects.
... most of the immigration happened so they could avoid the hand over of Hong Kong back to China.
... the Chinese built the railway across Canada. The legends are that one of them died from the effort for every tie along the tracks. the Chinese built BC in the early days through hard nasty work in the fields of the Fraser and Barkerville gold rushes.
But, wake up
And, learn some history
If they were employed, they were always paid far less than whites, and always called far worse than 'dog people'.
If their hard work over the last 150 years puts them in power, then they deserve it. Where were you through all this?
1. ... Anti Hate laws protect you from being victimized by hate promoting groups.
.. the station's entire theme is hateful attacks on anyone and everyone with no basis in truth at all, as if it is some kind of entertainment!
I personally agree that on balance, the anti-hate laws are a good thing. My point was not that they are bad, but that they are a restriction on speech that the USA does not have.
2. Yes, we have the 'not withstanding clause
I'm glad you agree.
3. not true (the canadian part), you're a sucker.
Google is your friend. Look it up, I wasn't kidding or making that up... this is going on under our very notices and most Canadians are like you don't have any clue it even exists.
4. The French DJ did not simply make an off-colour remark or two that were deemed hateful
Let's see, hateful attacks with no basis in truth? That sounds like a summary of American talk radio to me. In Canada that is illegal... you may think it's a good thing but that doesn't make what I said untrue.
Repeat after me: I wasn't saying that the USA is better than Canada. I *prefer* living in Canada, and on balance I like the laws we have up here. But many liberal Americans have misconceptions about Canada, thinking that it is just like the USA but without George Bush. From an ACLU point of view, Canada's system lacks many freedoms that Americans take for granted.
501 Not Implemented
mild way of putting it. i would have said that people all over the world are participating in their own election albeit they don't actually get to vote. but rather they are limited in their election participation to voicing their concerns over who gets voted in into the US government that in turn *chooses* *their* government.
canada is america done right, or, more correctly, america is canada done wrong.
If Kerry or Bush wins I am going to move out of the USA. Yea, I know what that means. I only have about 10K worth of stuff that I will either take with me or sale before I leave. If I am going to live in a socialist/fascist country it might as well be Canada. Well at least I have a French last name. I pray and hope they give me political asylum. If I do get political asylum in Canada I will probably move to South America after a few years. Paraguay, Uruguay, Brazil, or Argentina. I would just go there directly, but I don't expect I could make it through Central America alive or get political asylum from them. Now you're probably asking why anyone would leave the USA for Canada. Well I am a white male that has been harassed by the government for many many years including under the Patriot Act. That's right. This is not a joke, and I have no criminal record (No Convictions). All I want is the right to travel freely (No Dam Papers), right to bear arms (Carry my pistol and rifles where I please), right to freedom of speech (look at and hear what I dam well please), right to keep what I work for (Not a welfare state), and rights against unreasonable search and seizure (leave my fucking stuff alone). Yes I know Canada does not offer me those things either, but I doubt their government will go all out to kill me off like the USA has. Fuck You Fascist. Fuck You Socialist. Fuck You Commies. Fuck You Pussies. Where oh where can a perverted freedom loving libertarian live? Any suggestions for my great escape other than being a good little peasant slave?
Please. CBC... BBC... no thanks! The government has NO business being in the media business.
Not caring, evidently. I suspect he's one of those whites that hates the idea of change, particularly if it means he gets his ass shut out by "one o' them slopes." :-/
In tiny Canada, whose entire population is about the population of the state of California, the non-white population is a mere 13% of the entire population. There are more Hispanics in the United States than the entire population of Canada. There are more African-Americans in the United States than the entire population of Canada.
Anybody who tries doing business entirely in English in Quebec is going to be hunted down by the Francophone police. If you have such liberal atttitudes, why do you have such a ridulous policy shoving the French language down people's throats?
Your attitudes towards sexual orientation are but one of the reasons why it is necessary for your country to have immigrants. The real problem is that your social healthcare system requires the dollars provided by a shrinking population, and the only net growth in your population is provided by having immigrants arrive to generate the required revenue. But in the long run, this is not going to solve the problem, as the gay immigrants in your country cannot reproduce, but will continue to consume the benefits of your social welfare system. Furthermore, loose attitudes towards smoking and drug use only exacerbate your healthcare system, as you will have to provide more money for treatments of cancers of the lung, breast, and esophagus.
In short, your government is bowing down to "popular" opinion, but the populace is thinking about short-term benefits like a bunch of immature teenagers, not long-term sustainable policies.
How did parent get modded "Insightful"? All it is is a racist rant that does nothing but promote racial stereotypes and bigotry.
If you pick some average shmoe and hit them with a controversial topic, I wouldn't be surprised to get a conservative response. So what if you do, you need everyone to agree with you or there is no freedom?
Next you talk about speaking out loud in public cafe and getting dirty looks. Oh no! Dirty looks. Did you ever consider that just maybe you are obnoxious in real life.
Or perhaps your controversial views are hate mongering and that doesn't go down well.
Why don't you cite some examples, because my views are quite liberal and I never get dirty looks in Canada for voicing them. Practically everyone I meet is very open minded. I don't see folks freaking out so much about gay marriage or things like that here in Ottawa. I wouldn't imagine it being more of an issue in Vancouver.
Sounds more like you are an obnoxious ass. You will likely find your welcome the same everywhere you go.
Since Canada is bigger and on top if this was prison the USA would be our bitch.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
Don'tcha just love how a troll on Slashdot can get modded up as "Informative". Now that is free speech!
I was watching a news broadcast about this last night on CBC. They were mentioning that an American company was going to be responsible for maintaining, tracking, and updating medical records in the BC area. What they found out was that if this goes through, those same records, although they are pertaining to canadian patients, are subjected to the same scrutiny as an american's would be under the Patriot Act.
My eyes, my eyes! These goggles do nothing!
Cracking down on the freedom of speech and of religion, even though they don't represent the majority of Canadians, but only those who live on the peninsula.
Canadian Permanent Residence Requirements - how do you match up?
POTUS Witch Hunt tracker: 75 charges filed against 19 witches, 4 witches cooperating and 5 witches have pled guilty.
I knew you didn't know it.
Prove it. What's your university and where are the published statistics?
Coming from a citizen of a country that is 87% white , you don't know what you are talking about! If the United hates other races so much, why is Oprah Winfrey (whose syndicated show is on CTV in Canada, you can't deny knowing her) worth about a billion dollars? You cannot generate that kind of cash with a television show unless you're popular.
Many of the biggest American celebrites are of mixed race, from "The Rock" (you can't get more redneck than the WWF) to Vin Diesel to Keanu Reeves (star of "The Matrix"). Golfing phenom Tiger Woods has a mother from Thailand, an African-American father, and a wife from Sweden. President George W. Bush's brother Jeb Bush, also a Republican and the governor of Florida, is married to a Mexican woman. Nobody makes a big deal of their "interacial-ness" (these facts are usually buried in trivial-pursuit-type publications), and certainly nobody hates them for it. They wouldn't be multi-million dollar celebrities or successful politicans if they did unpopular things.
Why don't you name some internationally famous interracial Canadian celebrities? Michael J. Fox? Leslie Nielsen? Celine Dion? Mike Meyers? Not even close.
Was the white girl hot? That would generate stares anywhere. Were nerds staring at her? Nerds stare at anything with breasts, unless they're gay like you.
Did the Asian guy look "hot" (since you're gay)? Maybe people were looking at him.
Did the Asian guy look like a dork? If you have any guy of any race who looks like a dork that is accompanied by a hot girl, people will stare, thinking to themselves "What has that guy got?"
Was there toilet paper sticking to the bottom of their shoes and flapping in the wind as they walked? People would stare at that.
How do you know that the people staring at were American citizens? How do you know they weren't Canadians? (What, you don't think there are any Canadians in L.A.? HAH! See previous mention of Mike Meyers, Leslie Nielsen, Michael J. Fox...)
Are you basing your entire opinion of all 50 states in America based on one incident in which you may have completely misinterpreted?
Are you denying that your population, without immigration, is shrinking due to low birth rates? Check the census facts again.
Are you denying that marijuana addicts use cigarettes? Cancer doesn't care if you smoke in the privacy of your home instead of smoking in a public place. As long as you have legalized marijuana, you are going to have smokers who get cancer and emphysema, and YOU (literally) are going to be paying for their medical bills.
Are you denying the fact that homosexuals get AIDS and require medical treatement, which again YOU have to pay? I'm not speaking of the morality issue (I couldn't care less), but look at the facts.
Are you claiming that drug addicts don't commit crimes, even when drugs are legalized?
Just imagine the social mess you would have on your hands if all members of the police force, all members of your justice system, all peop
You REALLY don't pay attention.
I'm American, you moron.
Here's an idea. We will stop interfering with your elections as soon as you stop passing laws and trying to enforce them outside of your borders. eg. DMCA, Patriot Act.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
I was modded insightful because lots of people agree with me. Sorry to burst your bubble. Nice use of the "r" word, by the way. Yelling "racist" when someone points out their society is becoming an ugly place is a bit juvenile, don't you think? Why not confront the issues?
So what you're saying is, the injustices of the past must be paid for by sacrificing the present.
Sorry, I don't agree. It's too bad lots of Chinese died back then. That has nothing to do with the situation in Vancouver now.
The majority of Vancouver is in full white flight. If most people feel that their society is changing for the worse, then something is wrong. French immersion enrollment in B.C. is skyrocketing. Why? Asians don't go into French immersion, and people don't want their kids to attend what are in essence ESL classes.
These is the reality. You can drag out hoary historical facts and say I'm "bad", "evil", a "racist", or whatever. But Vancouver is being colonised, the city is becoming ghettoised, and longtime residents and families are appalled.
Oh, please. Ad hominem attacks accomplish nothing. Confront the issue: massive, large scale immigration by an utterly foreign culture is disruptive and often not good for the host country, especially when said immigrants have a marked disdain for the host.
well, the yanks have a real good opinion on this one..
"don't like it...get the hell out!"
when in doubt press enter and we'll figure it out later..
The problem becomes apparent when you realise that 1 in 2 residents identified themselves as Chinese in the last census. With a population that large, there is no need to integrate. It becomes a self-sustaining thing. If you take transit here, chances are excellent you will be the only non-Asian person in sight. I'm not kidding.
That said, like you I don't like Islam either - its imperialistic ambitions and rigid control over its adherents (especially the shitty treatment of women) mark it as the ideological opposite to any western democracy. Why in the hell we let them in when they don't share our most basic values beats the hell out of me.
Great so slashdot supports slandering and racism.
To cowboyneal and cmdtaco: you are just a couple a faggots The chance I have I'll spit to your faces.... you pieces of crap.
canadaimmigrants.com, where no brain racists find the truth stuck up their asses... troll this one if you like too.
you don't need to hunt to own weapons. I have several rifles and hand guns. All legal. No issues.
when in doubt press enter and we'll figure it out later..
Except, what you say in your point one is not true.
Try reading the criminal code if you are concerned about it. The hate crimes laws are fairly specific. You can hate people all you want. It becomes a crime when you are inciting violence (in several forms, including illegal public disturbances) against an identifiable group of people. The wording is sometimes claimed to have some looseness, but the intent is fairly clear in actual case histories.
To put it into context, this section of the criminal code starts out addressing specifically the promotion of genocide. This is extreme. But all of the related sections follow this similar theme.
You conclude: "the full truth deserves to be out there so people can make informed decisions". I won't address your other points, because they are as misinformed as your first... over blown, out of context, based on uninformed opinions, etc.
No offence.
But it is working! Afghanistan just had it first election ever, which went smoother in some respects than our own election in 2000.
Listen to the Iraqis. It doesn't look like they're being forced to me.
See this comment from Road of a Nation (bear with the grammar; English is not his native language, of course):
And this:
Wasn't there this whole Echlon thing? I think some people spelled it USA/UK, but I though Canada was in on it too. With the Patriot act, the US government gets to spy on it's people in ways it wasn't supposed to before, but I thought it was a given that the US snooped on everyone else. I even thought echlon was for nations to spy on other countries but the nations involved weren't supposed to spy on their own people. Instead they'd ask other echlon countries to tell them what's worth knowing.
You're still here? You said that you were going to leave the country if Bush was elected in 2000, and it's looking pretty certain he'll be in office four more years. So leave! Get out! If you hate America, why are you still here? You must be miserable in this fascist corporate theocracy where you have no rights and everything is horrible
You better hurry and get out while you still can! before Ashcroft and the Patriot Act boogeymen come to get you and take you to Gitmo! Ooh ooh, scary scary! Don't forget your tin foil hat and your Michael Moore DVD.
I had a banking account with HSBC Canada and one day I got a letter asking to sign a form confirming my Canadian citizenship. I phone to asked the reason and I was told that because the bank's HQ was moved to the US all accounts had to be confirmed of non-us citizens otherwise all interest gains in savings accounts would have to be reported to the IRS.
I closed my account the next day.
No, they're not about tariffs. They're about maintaining a historical privacy culture that someone like you would never be able to understand.
Try reading Warren and Brandeis' The Right to Privacy sometime, as a starting point in understanding the historical basis of privacy rights/culture. Try to understand what has been written. And don't forget to take notice the date of the article.
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
The devil quoting the scriptures.
The Americans now have to learn about freedom, security and much more from Osama bin Laden! They have forgotten the versus of their founding fathers.
I *HAVE* read that act you linked to, in full. Perhaps you should? I'll quote it for you from YOUR link, since you are too lazy.
"(2) Every one who, by communicating statements, other than in private conversation, wilfully promotes hatred against any identifiable group is guilty" -- Section 319
319 (1) is exactly what you said, inciting violence against another group. But 319 (2) is exactly what I said, and what they used against that Holocaust denier Doug Collins.
Before you claim that I am misinformed again, check to make sure your evidence doesn't prove my point instead of yours.
501 Not Implemented
It?s funny that EU citizens believe they have "privacy" culture and then gladly fill out government income tax and census forms that provide every detail about their religion, charitable affiliations, income, address, occupation, and number of children.
Where exactly do you have this from and how does it differ from census information outside the EU? Please give sources for your information.
Why are EU citizens so proud of new privacy laws give government's more access to their personal data then they had before?
please elaborate.
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
The privacy commissioner was referring to Canadian citizens living in BC. The provincial government wants to out-source all medical services plan data to a subsidiary of an american defence contractor. Because we have mandatory health coverage, every resident of BC has an MSP record. That's 4 million Canadian Citizens whose medical records could be demanded by a foreign intelligence service without a warrant issued by a Canadian judge.
According to this story the provincial government is going to outsource anyways.
This is so important to understand, I'm going to re-post it above the discussion about bin Laden's tape.
This story (and this summary) really should be front-page material
The privacy commissioner was referring to Canadian citizens living in BC. The provincial government wants to out-source all medical services plan data to a subsidiary of an american defence contractor. Because we have mandatory health coverage, every resident of BC has an MSP record. That's 4 million Canadian Citizens whose medical records could be demanded by a foreign intelligence service without a warrant issued by a Canadian judge.
According to this story the provincial government is going to outsource anyways.
This is so important to understand, I'm going to re-post it above the discussion about bin Laden's tape.
This story (and this summary) really should be front-page material
Nah. Too expensive, too crappy. Practically everything we wear and most of our appliances are "Made in China".
...or you're against us. And Canada was against the US war with Iraq, so we must be terrorists.
LOL - I love all these posts warning that Canada isn't all we crack it up to be. Gawd forbid the arrogant Americans take a notion to come up there and spoil things...
we've got real (ie, not just lip service) equality (racial, sexual orientation, &c)
Oh yes...I seem to remember a certain "hate speech" law...real equality unless it doesn't suit the government's regulations for speech.
Sniff, sniff...
I lived in the Detroit area most of my life until I was in my twenties and we NEVER had to present any ID to cross the border at Windsor. So now you have to have a passport to enter back from Canada?
I'm sorry, but this entire "terrorist" bit is nonsense. Until 2001 our single greatest terrorist event in this country had been commited by fellow Americans. Trying to lock up our borders isn't going to prevent nutjobs from doing bad - what we need to be doing is finding the nutjobs we have, and trying to prevent the creation of more by combatting poverty and ignorance.
Let me get this straight....
Couldn't Americans NOT move to Canada and STILL have their satellite TV be monitored by the Patriot Act?
IOW...
"Warning, Will Robinson! Surrender your data"
"Only if I get satellite."
I should stop being surprised when people aggressively seek out carrots on sticks. But I should always be troubled by it.
It is a massive inferiority complex with borders.