Hrm.. Ctrl+Escape, S, Enter. 4 total keys pressed, that's even less than n-t-s-y-s-v! Windows as an OS is quite easy to use with only a keyboard. The problem comes about when applications don't properly use things like accelerators, hot keys, tab order, F6 to switch panes, etc. I've got IE and Navigator on my solaris machine.. and I can't stand using navigator because it's impossible to use with just a keyboard. IE is much better in this category IMO.
My search engine of choice is altavista and i've never been bothered by the various ways they try and gain mindshare/make money. As long as their being a portal doesn't stop me from A) entering their URL and B) typing in what i want and selecting Submit, then more power to them.
Re:I'm gonna get moderated down for this, but...
on
Girls Like Linux Too
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· Score: 1
So you think the only "non-geeky" things that women might talk about are their asses or periods? Come on, you can troll better than that.
Just this week my husband called me up on his way home from work and asked me "for permission" to buy a lot of computer hardware.
Of course I have no problem with it, since I inherited his video card (twice as much VRAM as my old one) and memory (my motherboard is so old it requires *gasp* SIMMs).
I think being married/having a relationship with someone in the same field as yourself (whether or not it's a techie field) is great, although I have found that we end up spending most of our free time talking about work related techie things (we work at the same place).
We all know female geeks are pretty hard to find, but there are plenty of things male geeks can do to make themselves 'a better value' to female geeks who pretty much have their pick of a crowd.. In my experience, the female geeks end up pairing up with the male geeks with the most social skills.
My husband is a rare breed in that he's geeky but he's also an excellent public speaker, dresses nice, and can talk about things other than computers. Those qualities, more than his geekiness, were what attracted me to him in the first place. Whereas I think when he met me, it was my geeky side that set me apart from other women and gave me an edge. Kind of weird how that happens.
You know, it's quite possible to be a geek without coding.
When I was in college majoring in CS, I often lamented that I didn't enjoy programming and didn't want to do it for a career, and wondered what else I could do for a living. I remember someone told me I could ask "Would you like fries with that?" Ha ha..
Just wanted to make the point that there are plenty of professions that are geeky that don't require coding.
Re:I'm gonna get moderated down for this, but...
on
Girls Like Linux Too
·
· Score: 1
As one of few women in my technical line of work, I understand wanting an outlet of geeky women to share non-geeky things with and I can see how such an alias might have become very off topic (I'm sure it was in the beginning, people usually try to keep things in line at first:-)
While I get along great with all the guys I work with, once in a while I find myself wishing there were more women around. But I agree, I don't think that a linux alias is the place to do it.
I was an MIS major for a year.. took a class on MS Access. The book they gave us had an entire page devoted to how to use a mouse. Showed proper hand position, "index finger over the left mouse button". And then there was the time they said that windows was a "gooey".
Both clips are of course up outside my door at work.. Gosh what a fun class:-)
The way I see it, that AC's opinion is perfectly valid because linux won't be ready for mainstream, as he says, until any joe can sit down at a machine, install it and use it without going insane.
So what does Burger king call themselves in Australia?
Burger Royale.. oh wait that's in france?
:-)
Re:Abstractions, the "dumbing down" of the end use
on
Computer Stupidities
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· Score: 1
Cars are complex things. Why do auto makers not lock the engine from the driver? Because if the driver/wants/ to look at it and know whats going on, s/he can. And yet, people who don't know anything about engines just don't touch theirs, and refer to experts when it comes time to fix it. But at least they can see it, and chose to learn about it and fiddle with it if they want to.
You're forgetting about the distinction between hardware and software. I can open my PC, swap some jumpers, move cards around, add a new CPU etc. Likewise I can open the hood, check fluids, make sure the spark plugs are okay. That's all hardware.
But what about software? So you can't crack open win95 to see how it works.. when's the last time you looked at the innards of your car's computer? Cars have had software in them for a long time. And it's hardly accessible to the average joe.
Perception, in the sense that MS & Co. have been trying like hard to hammer home the fact that thier software is *easy* to use, and doesn't require any thought, and that Apple with thier iMac has been trying to make the 'un-thinking' PC a reality. Imagine someone trying to market a car that you don't have to learn how to drive, it's so easy to use! Absurd.
Ever heard of automatic transmission? I'd have to *think* about driving with manual..:-)
95% of people don't really know how to use a computer. Sure, they've learned the routine of what icons to click in order to send a fax...but few seem to know how 'navigate' the system efficiently, or create an uncluttered organization of their work files. I cringe watching most people using their computers...like folks who leave the keyboard repeatedly to select each field of a form with the mouse, when the "tab" key will do the same much more quickly.
I recently had the opportunity to watch a blind man use a computer. He has a screen reader that reads out, line by line, the entire screen. He used pine for his email. He types about 30-40 wpm. He can do calculations in spreadsheets in excel. He received a package from UPS while we were there.. he grabbed the box, and put it upside down on a scanner, and then scanned in the From/To and had the screen reader read it.
Watching him actually do these things is excruciatingly painful (imagine: press tab, wait for screenreader to read. Press tab again, wait for screenreader.. etc. Even things like alt+tabbing through programs took lots of time).
The amazing part is, he taught himself all this after becoming blind. Before he was blind he had never used a computer. I think "Hey way to go for productivity". If this had happened to him 15 years ago, he would not have been able to hold his job, communicate with people, etc.
If you RE MS-Word's file format, you can't put it into Open Source because you can't control the purpose your publication will be put to.
Why bother reverse engineering it, since it's published on http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/?
(ok ok you were probably just picking an example, but i've heard a lot of people complain about how microsoft is very closed about the binary file formats for office, when they've been releasing all the gory details for years:-)
I think what MS is trying to do here is make a best guess at what will be recommended by W3. I'm sure they know that the final standard may well invalidate their current implementation. There were, for example, significant changes in XML support between IE4 and IE5. This may be because the XML standards were more solid by the time IE5 was released.
I think the real risk is that IE5's implementation may become entrenched as a de facto standard before W3 makes a decision. By going ahead and implementing standards in a browser with majority marketshare, MS may make the W3 standard moot.
For what it's worth, the same thing happens in the Mail world all the time. For example, the SMTP w/SSL RFC was in draft at the time that OE4 and Exchange 5.5 were released. They supported the draft at that time (which meant doing SSL-SMTP over a different port than normal SMTP, I believe 465). Then the draft was changed to do it on port 25 with an RFC821 keyword instead. And when OE5 came out, it supported the RFC. A later service pack to Exchange 5.5 also supported the RFC.
So I think Microsoft has shown that even though they do have a release schedule and sometimes make the decision to implement something before it's a standard, they correct their implementation and support the standard in a reasonable amount of time.
My junior high science teacher once started out with x=y on the chalkboard and through various operations, got to 1=2. Can't find any references to that on the web right now though.
As someone a few posts up said, that guy certainly didn't think Pepsi was really giving away a harrier jet. He raised the money to get exactly what he's gotten so far - tons of publicity, a court case. His eventual goal was probably to win some cash settlement from Pepsi (easier to pay off than fight in court sometimes) and launch his career as the newest member of the Really-NKOTB.
Surely everyone who saw the commercial knew it was a joke. Surely some people thought "ooh I wonder what would happen if I got 7 million points and tried to collect." But only one person did it. Hooray for him, if he wins i'll be amused, if he loses I won't feel too sorry for him.
On this note, I've wondered for a while.. how do linux kernel developers and other people highly involved in the OS movement live?
They've got to have jobs to feed them.. so they work on linux in their spare time, at home? What percentage have wives/husbands, children? How much time do they have for other people in their lives?
My life is busy enough as it is, I can't imagine squeezing time in to develop for something I wouldn't get paid for - no matter how much I might enjoy it, I'd miss out on too many other things in life.
Orthogonal comment, but something i've been wondering about for a while..
Boss: We have a new program where every employee gets $20 for every bug they fix. Wally: I think I'll go code myself a minivan.
Sounds like one of the dilberts I have on my door:
Dilbert: "The company pays me $10 for every bug I fixed in my code, ratbert. Do your little rat dance on my keyboard." Ratbert: (dancing) "How am I doing?" Dilbert: "Not so good. You just authored a web browser."
The person who finds the bugs doesn't get any credit in the above scheme? Sucks to be a tester, eh?:-)
I do prefer some of the older covers he has done, like "Another one Rides the Bus", where he slips in armpit farts as an instrument. Now, that's class;)
Didn't he have to do that because Queen wouldn't let him use their music? I thought I remembered reading about that in the documentation with the box set. (The best kind of present to get for a SO - something you can share!:-)
But I agree, weird al is a genius. I remember watching MTV or VH1 once when the "Smells like nirvana" video was on and I nearly fell off my chair I was laughing so hard.
It doesn't matter how many thousands of emails you got from CHILDREN. They are still children. They are still the responsibility of their parents. They are NOT adults nor have the achieved the maturity necessary for the decisions on what is good or bad for them.
I don't really consider a 16 year old a child. Not quite an adult, but far from "children" in capital letters.
When I was 17 I got carded for "Boys on the Side" which is a chick flick with no nudity or violence, but adult situations - a woman with AIDS and a *gasp* lesbian. Since I was 17 I got in but I still remember being shocked that "adults" thought that around my age I wouldn't be able to handle it. I always thought I was more mature than other people my age and was quite glad when I hit the magic ages that let me do things I wanted to do (18, 21.. next one is 25 when my car insurance goes down!:-)
Look to your example letters. What does helping retarded children have to do with watching erotica (Kidman's butt)?
I think it speaks for the maturity of the guy who wrote in - he gives up parts of his summer vacation to work at a camp and help children. That's a pretty noble, selfless cause. Sounds to me like this is a guy who can make some mature decisions.
And it more mature to me than lots of people on this thread going out of their way to bash jon katz just because you disagree.
Incidentally, I'm 21, I saw Eyes Wide Shut, and I thought it should have been (a) uncensored and (b) rated X for nudity and adult situations. I don't think they'd show A Clockwork Orange in theaters today either, and I don't think Southpark or American Pie are even in the same category... if Eyes Wide Shut is rated R, they should be rated PG or PG-13.
But where did you see Eyes Wide Shut? A cineplex odeon? A Royale theatre? Some other big chain? If Eyes Wide Shut had been rated X, I'm sure that it would have been much harder to find a theatre playing it.
I've been reading up on the MPAA and their various goins-on.. There's a movie called "Coming Soon" (which should be out soon I believe, I know i'm going to see it if I can) about four sexually active girls. IIRC, there is little to no nudity in the movie. The MPAA gave it an X, the director had a fit because American Pie got an R and yelled at the MPAA for having a double standard. One representative of the MPAA told her that "we are representative of parents across the US, and they would judge this movie by a double standard, therefore we have to."
From what I've read so far, there have been several movements to get a rating that is "more than R, but not a porno" and have all failed because people end up associating the rating with porn (what do *you* think of when you see "NC17"?).
The enemy is not the ushers whose jobs are on the line or the theatre owners who have to make a living and therefore have to please the MPAA.. Nor is the enemy Jon Katz. Seems like the enemy is the double standard that parents and other people across the US have.
I used to use Outlook 98, and I don't recall it having any support for IMAP (although, ironically, Outlook Express does). You sure about this one?
Yep. The confusing part about Outlook98/2000 is the two modes - "Corporate/workgroup mode" (which does not *ship* with IMAP support but you can download a third pardy transport provider at http://www.cdc.com/imapsp) and "Internet only mode" which is geared towards the home user and ships with IMAP support.
So if you used Outlook98 in corporate/workgroup mode, that's probably why you didn't notice any mention of IMAP.
Of course Outlook supports POP3, but that's just for getting mail. You couldn't store your mail in addition to your calendar, todo list, etc. on the server. Using IMAP instead will at least give you the ability to store your mail on the server, but Microsoft has chosen not to support storing anothing other than mail on an IMAP mail store. OpenMail gives all these abilities back to you.
Can you name another client that lets you store something other than mail on an IMAP store? The M stands for Message, which most people take to mean Mail. I bet microsoft would receive holy hell from/.ers and other people if they dared to go against the IMAP standard and store non-mail items on the server in some proprietary format.
HP provides a MAPI transport that allows Outlook to use its Openmail server to do a lot of groupware functionality, which is really cool.
Microsoft ships outlook with other such transports - one for ccMail, one for MS Mail. Compuserve wrote one to access Compuserve mail. Transend writes one that has more features for ccMail connectivity than the one Outlook has. There was even an ill-fated one written by AOL to access AOL mail, but that never got out of beta (AOL nixed it, not Microsoft)
It's up to the person or company who writes the MAPI transport to enable the functionality they want - whether it be server side calendars or just mail, it's up to them. Outlook makes it easy to write something that just downloads items to the local machine. To write a store provider as well as a transport provider (which is what it appears that HP has done) is more difficult but not undoable.
It isn't designed for the individual who justs wants mail, and shouldn't be read as such. Its for the corporation who wants to do scheduling and the such off their e-mail system, and don't want to use NT to do it.
There are a lot of reasons to use Openmail other than not wanting to use NT. HP used to have a version of Openmail for NT, actually, although they stopped producing new versions for it.
I can't speak for whether or not the product itself works well, or if it crashes all the time as people have claimed, but I do know that the arguments being placed against it as far as Oulook connectivity and its pointlessness are far from on target.
Well I think they're on target in that outlook is a common product and it's great if HP can leverage that (Along with them now supporting linux as a server platform) to get more companies to decide to use their server yet use a client that users might be more comfortable/familiar with.
Then I remembered the truth: Outlooks sucks. It's buggy, full of badly written and non-standards based code. 90% of the trouble with email I get calls from users on is Outlook's fault.
What do you mean by "non-standards based code"? I understand complaining about a product that does not support a lot of internet standars, but I don't know what you mean about 'standards based code', could you or someone else explain?
I'll wait for the open source community to write a 'better than outlook' program, using standard, like POP3, IMAP, vcal, etc... the only reason it hasn't happened is that people keep trying to make Outlook work.
Outlook supports POP3, IMAP, SMTP, ical, vcard, and a bunch of other internet standards. I happen to think that Outlook does work.. for me.
Slashdot Mirror
Hrm.. Ctrl+Escape, S, Enter. 4 total keys pressed, that's even less than n-t-s-y-s-v! Windows as an OS is quite easy to use with only a keyboard. The problem comes about when applications don't properly use things like accelerators, hot keys, tab order, F6 to switch panes, etc. I've got IE and Navigator on my solaris machine.. and I can't stand using navigator because it's impossible to use with just a keyboard. IE is much better in this category IMO.
My search engine of choice is altavista and i've never been bothered by the various ways they try and gain mindshare/make money. As long as their being a portal doesn't stop me from A) entering their URL and B) typing in what i want and selecting Submit, then more power to them.
So you think the only "non-geeky" things that women might talk about are their asses or periods? Come on, you can troll better than that.
Just this week my husband called me up on his way home from work and asked me "for permission" to buy a lot of computer hardware.
Of course I have no problem with it, since I inherited his video card (twice as much VRAM as my old one) and memory (my motherboard is so old it requires *gasp* SIMMs).
I think being married/having a relationship with someone in the same field as yourself (whether or not it's a techie field) is great, although I have found that we end up spending most of our free time talking about work related techie things (we work at the same place).
We all know female geeks are pretty hard to find, but there are plenty of things male geeks can do to make themselves 'a better value' to female geeks who pretty much have their pick of a crowd.. In my experience, the female geeks end up pairing up with the male geeks with the most social skills.
My husband is a rare breed in that he's geeky but he's also an excellent public speaker, dresses nice, and can talk about things other than computers. Those qualities, more than his geekiness, were what attracted me to him in the first place. Whereas I think when he met me, it was my geeky side that set me apart from other women and gave me an edge. Kind of weird how that happens.
You know, it's quite possible to be a geek without coding.
When I was in college majoring in CS, I often lamented that I didn't enjoy programming and didn't want to do it for a career, and wondered what else I could do for a living. I remember someone told me I could ask "Would you like fries with that?" Ha ha..
Just wanted to make the point that there are plenty of professions that are geeky that don't require coding.
As one of few women in my technical line of work, I understand wanting an outlet of geeky women to share non-geeky things with and I can see how such an alias might have become very off topic (I'm sure it was in the beginning, people usually try to keep things in line at first :-)
While I get along great with all the guys I work with, once in a while I find myself wishing there were more women around. But I agree, I don't think that a linux alias is the place to do it.
I was an MIS major for a year.. took a class on MS Access. The book they gave us had an entire page devoted to how to use a mouse. Showed proper hand position, "index finger over the left mouse button". And then there was the time they said that windows was a "gooey".
:-)
Both clips are of course up outside my door at work.. Gosh what a fun class
The way I see it, that AC's opinion is perfectly valid because linux won't be ready for mainstream, as he says, until any joe can sit down at a machine, install it and use it without going insane.
So what does Burger king call themselves in Australia?
Burger Royale.. oh wait that's in france?
:-)
Cars are complex things. Why do auto makers not lock the engine from the driver? Because if the driver /wants/ to look at it and know whats going on, s/he can. And yet, people who don't know anything about engines just don't touch theirs, and refer to experts when it comes time to fix it. But at least they can see it, and chose to learn about it and fiddle with it if they want to.
You're forgetting about the distinction between hardware and software. I can open my PC, swap some jumpers, move cards around, add a new CPU etc. Likewise I can open the hood, check fluids, make sure the spark plugs are okay. That's all hardware.
But what about software? So you can't crack open win95 to see how it works.. when's the last time you looked at the innards of your car's computer? Cars have had software in them for a long time. And it's hardly accessible to the average joe.
Perception, in the sense that MS & Co. have been trying like hard to hammer home the fact that thier software is *easy* to use, and doesn't require any thought, and that Apple with thier iMac has been trying to make the 'un-thinking' PC a reality. Imagine someone trying to market a car that you don't have to learn how to drive, it's so easy to use! Absurd.
:-)
Ever heard of automatic transmission? I'd have to *think* about driving with manual..
95% of people don't really know how to use a computer. Sure, they've learned the routine of what icons to click in order to send a fax...but few seem to know how 'navigate' the system efficiently, or create an uncluttered organization of their work files. I cringe watching most people using their computers...like folks who leave the keyboard repeatedly to select each field of a form with the mouse, when the "tab" key will do the same much more quickly.
I recently had the opportunity to watch a blind man use a computer. He has a screen reader that reads out, line by line, the entire screen. He used pine for his email. He types about 30-40 wpm. He can do calculations in spreadsheets in excel. He received a package from UPS while we were there.. he grabbed the box, and put it upside down on a scanner, and then scanned in the From/To and had the screen reader read it.
Watching him actually do these things is excruciatingly painful (imagine: press tab, wait for screenreader to read. Press tab again, wait for screenreader.. etc. Even things like alt+tabbing through programs took lots of time).
The amazing part is, he taught himself all this after becoming blind. Before he was blind he had never used a computer. I think "Hey way to go for productivity". If this had happened to him 15 years ago, he would not have been able to hold his job, communicate with people, etc.
If you RE MS-Word's file format, you can't put it into Open Source because you can't control the purpose your publication will be put to.
:-)
Why bother reverse engineering it, since it's published on http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/?
(ok ok you were probably just picking an example, but i've heard a lot of people complain about how microsoft is very closed about the binary file formats for office, when they've been releasing all the gory details for years
I think the point was that it's not a very funny joke to an Australian to say "You're descended from criminals!".
Much like you might anger some americans if you say "You're descended from puritan weenies who weren't welcome in Europe!"
I think what MS is trying to do here is make a best guess at what will be recommended by W3. I'm sure they know that the final standard may well invalidate their current implementation. There were, for example, significant changes in XML support between IE4 and IE5. This may be because the XML standards were more solid by the time IE5 was released.
I think the real risk is that IE5's implementation may become entrenched as a de facto standard before W3 makes a decision. By going ahead and implementing standards in a browser with majority marketshare, MS may make the W3 standard moot.
For what it's worth, the same thing happens in the Mail world all the time. For example, the SMTP w/SSL RFC was in draft at the time that OE4 and Exchange 5.5 were released. They supported the draft at that time (which meant doing SSL-SMTP over a different port than normal SMTP, I believe 465). Then the draft was changed to do it on port 25 with an RFC821 keyword instead. And when OE5 came out, it supported the RFC. A later service pack to Exchange 5.5 also supported the RFC.
So I think Microsoft has shown that even though they do have a release schedule and sometimes make the decision to implement something before it's a standard, they correct their implementation and support the standard in a reasonable amount of time.
My junior high science teacher once started out with x=y on the chalkboard and through various operations, got to 1=2. Can't find any references to that on the web right now though.
As someone a few posts up said, that guy certainly didn't think Pepsi was really giving away a harrier jet. He raised the money to get exactly what he's gotten so far - tons of publicity, a court case. His eventual goal was probably to win some cash settlement from Pepsi (easier to pay off than fight in court sometimes) and launch his career as the newest member of the Really-NKOTB.
Surely everyone who saw the commercial knew it was a joke. Surely some people thought "ooh I wonder what would happen if I got 7 million points and tried to collect." But only one person did it. Hooray for him, if he wins i'll be amused, if he loses I won't feel too sorry for him.
On this note, I've wondered for a while.. how do linux kernel developers and other people highly involved in the OS movement live?
They've got to have jobs to feed them.. so they work on linux in their spare time, at home? What percentage have wives/husbands, children? How much time do they have for other people in their lives?
My life is busy enough as it is, I can't imagine squeezing time in to develop for something I wouldn't get paid for - no matter how much I might enjoy it, I'd miss out on too many other things in life.
Orthogonal comment, but something i've been wondering about for a while..
Boss: We have a new program where every employee gets $20 for every bug they fix.
:-)
Wally: I think I'll go code myself a minivan.
Sounds like one of the dilberts I have on my door:
Dilbert: "The company pays me $10 for every bug I fixed in my code, ratbert. Do your little rat dance on my keyboard."
Ratbert: (dancing) "How am I doing?"
Dilbert: "Not so good. You just authored a web browser."
The person who finds the bugs doesn't get any credit in the above scheme? Sucks to be a tester, eh?
I do prefer some of the older covers he has done, like "Another one Rides the Bus", where he slips in armpit farts as an instrument. Now, that's class ;)
:-)
Didn't he have to do that because Queen wouldn't let him use their music? I thought I remembered reading about that in the documentation with the box set. (The best kind of present to get for a SO - something you can share!
But I agree, weird al is a genius. I remember watching MTV or VH1 once when the "Smells like nirvana" video was on and I nearly fell off my chair I was laughing so hard.
It doesn't matter how many thousands of emails you got from CHILDREN. They are still children. They are still the responsibility of their parents. They are NOT adults nor have the achieved the maturity necessary for the decisions on what is good or bad for them.
:-)
I don't really consider a 16 year old a child. Not quite an adult, but far from "children" in capital letters.
When I was 17 I got carded for "Boys on the Side" which is a chick flick with no nudity or violence, but adult situations - a woman with AIDS and a *gasp* lesbian. Since I was 17 I got in but I still remember being shocked that "adults" thought that around my age I wouldn't be able to handle it. I always thought I was more mature than other people my age and was quite glad when I hit the magic ages that let me do things I wanted to do (18, 21.. next one is 25 when my car insurance goes down!
Look to your example letters. What does helping retarded children have to do with watching erotica (Kidman's butt)?
I think it speaks for the maturity of the guy who wrote in - he gives up parts of his summer vacation to work at a camp and help children. That's a pretty noble, selfless cause. Sounds to me like this is a guy who can make some mature decisions.
And it more mature to me than lots of people on this thread going out of their way to bash jon katz just because you disagree.
Incidentally, I'm 21, I saw Eyes Wide Shut, and I thought it should have been (a) uncensored and (b) rated X for nudity and adult situations. I don't think they'd show A Clockwork Orange in theaters today either, and I don't think Southpark or American Pie are even in the same category... if Eyes Wide Shut is rated R, they should be rated PG or PG-13.
But where did you see Eyes Wide Shut? A cineplex odeon? A Royale theatre? Some other big chain? If Eyes Wide Shut had been rated X, I'm sure that it would have been much harder to find a theatre playing it.
I've been reading up on the MPAA and their various goins-on.. There's a movie called "Coming Soon" (which should be out soon I believe, I know i'm going to see it if I can) about four sexually active girls. IIRC, there is little to no nudity in the movie. The MPAA gave it an X, the director had a fit because American Pie got an R and yelled at the MPAA for having a double standard. One representative of the MPAA told her that "we are representative of parents across the US, and they would judge this movie by a double standard, therefore we have to."
From what I've read so far, there have been several movements to get a rating that is "more than R, but not a porno" and have all failed because people end up associating the rating with porn (what do *you* think of when you see "NC17"?).
The enemy is not the ushers whose jobs are on the line or the theatre owners who have to make a living and therefore have to please the MPAA.. Nor is the enemy Jon Katz. Seems like the enemy is the double standard that parents and other people across the US have.
I used to use Outlook 98, and I don't recall it having any support for IMAP (although, ironically, Outlook Express does). You sure about this one?
Yep. The confusing part about Outlook98/2000 is the two modes - "Corporate/workgroup mode" (which does not *ship* with IMAP support but you can download a third pardy transport provider at http://www.cdc.com/imapsp) and "Internet only mode" which is geared towards the home user and ships with IMAP support.
So if you used Outlook98 in corporate/workgroup mode, that's probably why you didn't notice any mention of IMAP.
Of course Outlook supports POP3, but that's just for getting mail. You couldn't store your mail in addition to your calendar, todo list, etc. on the server. Using IMAP instead will at least give you the ability to store your mail on the server, but Microsoft has chosen not to support storing anothing other than mail on an IMAP mail store. OpenMail gives all these abilities back to you.
/.ers and other people if they dared to go against the IMAP standard and store non-mail items on the server in some proprietary format.
Can you name another client that lets you store something other than mail on an IMAP store? The M stands for Message, which most people take to mean Mail. I bet microsoft would receive holy hell from
HP provides a MAPI transport that allows Outlook to use its Openmail server to do a lot of groupware functionality, which is really cool.
Microsoft ships outlook with other such transports - one for ccMail, one for MS Mail. Compuserve wrote one to access Compuserve mail. Transend writes one that has more features for ccMail connectivity than the one Outlook has. There was even an ill-fated one written by AOL to access AOL mail, but that never got out of beta (AOL nixed it, not Microsoft)
It's up to the person or company who writes the MAPI transport to enable the functionality they want - whether it be server side calendars or just mail, it's up to them. Outlook makes it easy to write something that just downloads items to the local machine. To write a store provider as well as a transport provider (which is what it appears that HP has done) is more difficult but not undoable.
It isn't designed for the individual who justs wants mail, and shouldn't be read as such. Its for the corporation who wants to do scheduling and the such off their e-mail system, and don't want to use NT to do it.
There are a lot of reasons to use Openmail other than not wanting to use NT. HP used to have a version of Openmail for NT, actually, although they stopped producing new versions for it.
I can't speak for whether or not the product itself works well, or if it crashes all the time as people have claimed, but I do know that the arguments being placed against it as far as Oulook connectivity and its pointlessness are far from on target.
Well I think they're on target in that outlook is a common product and it's great if HP can leverage that (Along with them now supporting linux as a server platform) to get more companies to decide to use their server yet use a client that users might be more comfortable/familiar with.
Then I remembered the truth: Outlooks sucks.
It's buggy, full of badly written and non-standards based code. 90% of the trouble with email I get calls from users on is Outlook's fault.
What do you mean by "non-standards based code"? I understand complaining about a product that does not support a lot of internet standars, but I don't know what you mean about 'standards based code', could you or someone else explain?
I'll wait for the open source community to write a 'better than outlook' program, using standard, like POP3, IMAP, vcal, etc... the only reason it hasn't happened is that people keep trying to make Outlook work.
Outlook supports POP3, IMAP, SMTP, ical, vcard, and a bunch of other internet standards. I happen to think that Outlook does work.. for me.