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Microsoft/Siemens in Joint Linux Venture?
angelatlarge writes "Very strange news on LinuxToday about .net Jury claiming that Microsoft/Siemens are in a secret joint venture to create a Linux distro. Is this real?" The rumor's been floating all over the place this weekend. So far, we don't have any confirmation from the purported sources of it all, Prix Arts Electronica in Austria and The Society for Old and New Media in The Netherlands. Perhaps some Slashdot readers in Europe can help us out here. Update 1146 a.m. EDT Okay, it's been confirmed - as a hoax. Over 100 people submitted the story to us. Interesting to watch how something like this can spread, isn't it?
MS Linux has been out there for awhile now.
How many shares of Red Hat does
Bill Gates own?
Could he own all of them?
As much as I like KDE and hate Windows, I have never had any version of Windows that crashes on me as much as KDE, especially when surfing the Net. If I ever quit using KDE, I will no longer have any incentive to use Linux, as much as I like it.
MS will probably want to cash in on the Linux hype, and want to put out some competition for it in the OS market. But it would make a lot more sense for them to take a BSD and proprietize it, rather than going with a GPLed kernel. (The re-licensing freedom of the BSD is probably a reason why Apple chose it for Darwin; Woz's ties to Berkeley might be another.) They'd then either need to rewrite any BSD components under the GPL (I can't recall which components of, say, FreeBSD those are) or slap a Win98/NT/etc layer on top of BSD and run user stuff there (leaving admin tasks in the BSD layer). The resulting "Winux" would have a UNIX administrative interface (which would make a lot of [not all] sysadmins happy), the MS brand name and possibly the Win98/NT/etc interface (which would make a lot of [not all] PHBs and technophobe users happy) and would be proprietary (which would make MS happy all over).
DISCLAIMER: This is not a comment on the relative technical merits of Linux, the BSDs, or the Windowses. I'm just saying that FROM MS'S PERSPECTIVE, repackaging a BSD would be a more likely choice from the licensing angle.
"Whatever happened to fair use?"
-- Duff-Man
I just died laughing, I'm typing this on my way through the tunnel.
(B) + (D) + (B) + (D) = (K) + (&)
Why would they want to touch such a mess like Linux? Server ? it is quite nice but desktop ? You need to realize that on the desktop MS offering is years ahead of anything available on Linux.
You are spreading FUD. MS jave is as much portable as anything else. There are some additioinal API that are MS specific but those are clearly marked as such. To tell you the truth, if I see interesting Java applet on the net my first reaction is to fire up IE to check it out on the "real" Java VM ( yep,hard to belive but MS managed to create on of the best implementations of Java around. )
That's not the point. I don't know if you have noticed but we have moved away from terminals and command line tools a long time ago. Linux is unnecessary complicated as compared to say, Win 32 implementation, Mac or BeOS.
May I remained everyone that M$ is not allowed to produce any UNIX-version anymore. The give up SCO with a signed-contract that they aren't going to produce any other UNIX-version and Linux is also a Linux-version. BTW NT was also UNIX based before M$ taked over the code and begon programming.
Very nice, but it's not just funny offcourse...what if they'd actually do it...write an incredible kewl app everybody wants to use (i doubt they can, but if the do...) which only compiles with a MS-compiler that only comes with the MS-linux-distro. ARGH..a lot off newbies would choose the new platform:(
0x or or snor perron?!
Is it a hoax? Yes, in that MSFT wouldn't use Seimens. But, think about it ... what if MSFT used some of its money to "make" a Linux distro, extend it, and develop MSFT Office for it. All they need do is add some of their PATENTED software and then ...
...
Luckily for you, they have massive egos.
For now
Will in Seattle
I disagree - Win32/Mac are un-necessarily dumbed down....
-Shane Stephens
Perhaps you all can stop thinking that microsoft will ever create a linux distribution.
Don't ever.... AND THE ROCK MEANS EVER... scare us like that again :)
That all depends on how UNIX was defined in the contract. Many people consider Linux to be a "Unix-type" OS, and its roots do come from true Unix systems. The question of whether or not Linux is Unix from a legal standpoint would be argued between SCO's and M$'s already busy lawyers.
I have a Siemens PC, washing machine and fridge.
if u cant beat them..join them :)
I think MS has realized how much Linux beats them. It wouldnt suprize me if they did make a distro.
Injured software engineer wins against Mattel!
Microsoft would be stupid to release a version of Linux. I've been using Linux at different jobs for about six years now and there is no way that Microsoft will hurt it's customers buy throwing a complicated/hard to install OS on them. It just isn't going to happen. They know that ease of use and support for every piece of hardware under the sun is what matters to most of their customers. I graduated with honors at UCLA with a double major in physics and computer science and I find Linux to be too time consuming to learn/install. If it's that way for me then I know that Microsoft will not thrust this upon their customers.
I am sure that MSFT would never break a contract. Just as Sun.
Actually they teach Linux in their sysadmin courses (beside their own proprietary Unix, Sinix). And their teachers are *very* Unix biased ;-)
--
"Just believe everything I tell you, and it will all be very, very simple."
Plus they have a very strong relationship with Sun and will abandon Sinix (and Reliant Unix) for Solaris in the near future. At least that is what I was told on a Sun/Siemens conference. :-)
Sebastian
If they actually would make an own linux distribution, why should anyone care? Whee, another easy-to-install distribution? It'd be same shit in a different bag anyway.
A bit like HP. We do make things other than printers, you know...
richi.
--
Richi Jennings tel:+44-1344-365870 (T316-5870)
OpenMail Technical Product Manager http://www.hp.com/go/openmail
Hewlett-Packard Company Pager: richi-beep@pwd.hp.com
aolim:richij
"Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty"
Oh, crap!
:-)
:-( )
Microsoft software has retarded the software industry like nothing else in history! There is no way that you could call ANYTHING Microsoft years ahead of ANYTHING!!!!
Let's face the issue like it really is:
Microsoft, a completely normal company (just like every other company the world over) wants to make money. The best way for Microsoft to make money is to control the software market. BUT - this means that Microsoft has to either innovate or suppress innovation. I think everyone'll agree that they don't innovate....
Microsoft has, and will continue to, actively engaged in obtaining other people's ideas and developing them as their own. In the process, they destroy any hope of having open source software or multi-platform software, the two things that could really advance the software industry BUT (and this is important) also relinquish Microsoft's stranglehold on the market.
In addition, anybody who attempts to innovate has their ideas seized! This means that less people bother - more retardation on the software industry.
For some specific examples:
(1) Java - Microsoft tried to aquire this. They failed. Thank god. They will probably try again - who wants to bet that if they do get it then they won't support non-MS operating systems?
(2) The Internet - there's a court case about this at the moment! Microsoft demonstrably (and it must be demonstrable, otherwise it wouldn't be in court) tried to grab the software market for internet browsers(nb - what's at issue is whether they did it legally...). This is a bad thing - if they had completely succeeded, would we even HAVE browsers for alternative OSs? Would we have developed XML? Etc, etc. As it is, hasn't the huge war between Microsoft and Netscape massively retarded the development of JavaScript, HTML, VRML (which MS tried to grab as well..), and others?
(3) OpenDoc standards for documents - MS stayed with this for just long enough to ensure that it sank when they abandoned it. It would have meant that any office software could swap files with any other office software. This is both innovative and powerful. I wonder why MS opposed it ?!?!?!
(4) Any other software that I want, written in an Open Source manner - check out OpenGL vs directX, for instance.............
There are several other examples - perhaps other people can post them...I'm too tired right now!
The point is this: Microsoft is not necessarily an evil company. They are just a company, doing what every company does. The problem is, they have a monopoly. And this is retarding growth.
It is this retardation of growth that I oppose. And let's face it - Microsoft is NOT ahead of anything!
I can get for my Linux platform (completely free):
(1) A good integrated office package (StarOffice) that uses the OpenDoc standard (I think) - so it's WAY ahead of M$ stuff. Oh, and it doesn't come on 2 CDs...
(2) As many software development packages as I want (including IBMs VisualAge for Java, which is an absolutely KickArse IDE for Java - but not free
(3) An extensible, flexible, powerful, stable, and most of all developable GUI - XWindows. This shits all over M$ so much and in so many ways that it's not funny. For one, it's NOT part of the kernel, so it can be changed/updated at ANY stage. Next, it's Open Source. Next, there are a huge range of toolkits available for development. Next, it doesn't crash. Next, the arrangement enables any one of a number of Window Managers to interface with it (or I could write one of my own...). Oh, and by default it works over networks...
I hope you're getting my drift. There are just so many technologies and ideas that are part of Linux and _not_ part of M$ operating systems that it's just not funny!
Take a look at threads, for instance. Unlike the extremely simple (and hence powerful) thread model that Linux uses, Windows NT uses an ugly, complicated mess of threading that just defies understanding.
Or speed of loading? Linux is much faster. And, unlike NT, it doesn't complain when you touch the master boot record....
One problem with Linux is that it is developed by a large number of people, so it is, to a certain extent, all over the place. However, people like RedHat are working quite well to create simple install procedures and highly graphical environments.
I just can't see how anyone could say that M$ is years ahead!
-Shane Stephens
If u know the Unix Siemens sells and the microsoft Unix expertise just imagining that product makes me laugh. Siemens is (in my experience) very heartless in their Unix product and they never heard of stuff like File System Hierachy Standard and such. Mixed with the experience of microsoft considering OS-Installation Scripts. Would make a nice leetle cocktail. Than God it is a hoax. Har Har
Would you please reconsider the ramifications of what you just said? Any CS major has to have had experience with UNIX, at least though programming courses (and probably more) at their school. Don't give us this crap about Linux being 'too hard' to install. I'll be one of may people to say it didn't take a college degree (or even a high school degree at the time) to install Linux.
Congratulations, you've made yourself sound like a Microsoft PR lackey.
Only on slashdot can a posting be rated "Score -1, Insightful".
it's too bad that this is just a hoax, I say let M$ make their little distro. I would love to take a look at the source code (required - GPL) and laugh my ass off at the way the M$ boys are coding these days (silly billy, kernels are for hackers)
Hi Folks,
.net category, e-commerce and
here comes a little insight on the overall topic.
I hope this can boil up the discussion about industrial engagement in the linux and open source distribution a bit.
>Greetings,
>
>Below you will find a press statement from members of the
>.net jury of this years Prix Ars Electronica. You will read
>about the real paths that lead us, the jury, to award this
>years golden nica to the operating system linux.
>
>Best,
>
>Marleen Stikker
>
>______________________________________
>
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> Linz, Sep 6, 1999
>
>
>Media Contacts:
>Marleen Stikker
>Centrum de Waag
>Amsterdam/ The Netherlands
>Tel: (+31)20-5579898
>Fax: (+31)20-5579880
>Email: marleen@dds.nl
>Website: http://www.waag.org
>
>Dr. Christine Schoepf
>ORF Prix Ars Electronica 99
>Linz/ Austria
>Tel. (+43)732-6900-24218
>Tel. (+43)732-6900-24270
>Email: christine.schoepf@orf.at
>Website: http://prixars.orf.at
>
>
>
>ARS ELECTRONICA PLAYGROUND FOR CORPORATE STRATEGIES
>
>We, the "net." jury, have just learned that next years
>ars electronica festival will be titled "OPEN SOURCE".
>This has been inofficially agreed on by the direction of
>the ARS ELECTRONICA and the sponsors Siemens, Microsoft,
>Oracle and HP, e.a. From reliable sources we also learned
>that the decision was made weeks before the ".net"-jury
>decision on "linux".
>
>
>WHY WE ARE GOING PUBLIC
>
>Because we have also just learned that the above-mentioned
>IT-companies are involved in a linux distribution joint
>venture and a strategic alliance. Their joint venture startup
>will most probably become one of the leading linux
>distributors, directly attacking Red Hat and SUSE.
>
>This is the classic oligopolistic strategy.
>They cannot buy linux, nevertheless, they will take control
>over the distibution of the competitor.
>
>We were suspicious before, but now we are strongly convinced
>that there was indirect but heavy influence by corporate and
>ars electronica executives to reach the "linux" decision...
>
>
>THE JURY WEEK-END
>
>For the jury welcome dinner, a few corporate people had been
>invited, too. Everybody was discussing about where Ars
>Electronica could or should be going. For the corporate people
>the main hype was of course the
>the commercial impact of the "mass communications" medium
>internet... and they were all constantly talking about the
>creative potential of linux and its open source strategy.
>
>Then, at the actual jury meeting, deciding on a winner appeared
>to be quite a hard decision (not to say compromise). Whilst the
>majority of the jury had a clear favourite in the russian info-
>intelligence startup "etxtreme.ru", another juror started
>talking about "that we need to decide on something that is really
>taking two steps ahead, not some arty-farty stuff". So "linux" just
>came up as a smart solution. we took this path, we formulated our
>statement and came up with the source code as art work, with our
>position against "beautiful" web-sites. it was a strong moment.
>And we saw linux as the perfect continuum to the corporate artwork
>of etoy.com, the Ars Electronica winners of 1996.
>
>
>TERRORVISION AND THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION
>
>But the information about the secret linux distribution joint
>venture between Microsoft and Siemens in combination with next
>years topic made us alert.
>
>Our conclusion: the industry has strongly lobbied and put
>pressure on at least one jury member to award "linux". We now
>have to interpret this in persepective of next years ars topic.
>They pushed the topic. The idea is to use the art and science
>community to soft launch their linux activities and control
>open source strategies. They do understand that open source
>has evolved into a stronger development strategy and they have
>to jump that train early enough, in order to avoid another
>"internet" desaster.
>
>So as artists writers and scientists we are used as lab-rats
>and cheap alternative researchers. This is NOT what artists
>need and it is certainly not what Ars Electronica should be
>aiming at.
>
>
>NEXT STEPS
>
>We believe that investigative journalism is needed to further
>describe and interpret this incident..
>We definitely want to engage in bringing transparency into the
>"who`s, when`s, where`s, and for how much money" of this years
>decision making process of Prix Ars Electronica.
>
>For the press, we are available for background information and
>extended infos on the topic via email or at our on-the-fly press
>conference:
>
> sept 8, 1999, 1630h
> brucknerhaus in linz
>
>
>Regards,
>
> Derrick de Kerckhove
> Lisa Goldman
> Joichi Ito
> Marleen Stikker
>
According to the webpage, there's an update which says that this is in fact a hoax.
Check the Linux Today link, it says heise has confirmed this to be a hoax.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
Read the headline; it's a hoax.
Update: Heise has exposed this as a hoax.
_ ___________
-straight from LinuxToday.com
_______________________________________________
__
Comment submitted. There will be a delay before you understand what you posted.
In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. -Carl Sagan
From Linux Today: Update: Heise has exposed this as a hoax,. Complete with surplus comma! ;)
but siemens makes fuel injectors???
char *stupidsig = "this is my dumb sig";
Simply put, the MS boys would try to simplfy the powerful os and make it user friendly. They just fool with it until it resembled and ran (and crashed) like Windows. I can see ms making a universal user- so that people do not have to fool with accounts, why not a autoroot account. MS- please leave linux alone
check it out at http://securityportal.com/coverst ory19990830.html
I think SuSE do some Linux work for Siemens.
One and a half or two years ago, this kind of rumor got started, and it would have made sense. MS could have nuked NT2K (pronounced nut tweek), pushed win98 forward into the graphic arts arena to kill the last vestiges of Apple and then released Linux + Win32API as their server platform with remote-display capabilities for their office apps using the X11 protocol (Ok, I'm dreaming, here but it would have been very cool).
Now, MS is locked in to releasse NT2K as a server platform which is doomed because it just can never be stable. It's doomed against Apple which is once again entrenched in the graphic arts arena, and on the general office desktop, Linux is starting to build on its server success and with Sun's acqusition of Star Office, we may begin to see NT2K get real competion on the desktop from Sun/Linux on X86 and PPC boxen.
MS is in big trouble, but they don't have an angle for Linux any more. Are they just creating a side venture as a Linux hedge? Might make sense, but it's risky. In one sense it's wise though (and this comes from having read Cryptonomicon too recently). They may have to deal with an awful lot of shareholder lawsuits when they start to loose money. Being able to claim that they tried to get on the Linux bandwagon may be a point in their favor.
Then again, it's likely just a rumor. MS would be practically admitting defeat by selling a Linux distribution. Embrace and extend? I actually don't think that's an option with Linux, but I could be proven wrong.
Coming soon!
I'd buy a MS distro of Linux of it will support my hardware. I *just* installed Linux yesterday and it has been nothing but headaches since. The way I see it, Linux won't be ready for the mainstream for another 2 or so years unless someone with cash starts supporting it. Since all of the big players are already in bed with MS, who better to release their own distro. Seriously. If it is open source, who cares who is behind it?
neh, don't thinks so.
End Of My Story.. Smell Ya never!
Even though the page turned out to be a hoax. Just think, why wouldn't MS make their own Linux distro? Have you all read the Halloween papers. They discribed how they where going to bring linux to its knees. Take it as their own, make so many new standards with it that the people that program linux for the love can't keep up. With that, they could then sit on top of linux and not let anyone have their way because the standards are theirs. Kinda puts a damper on everything doesn't it.
Hoax or trial balloon?
I've come into possession of this email from Steve Ballmer to Bill Gates which lays it all out.
When I saw this, I couldn't help but be amazed at their thinking. Microsoft is demonstrating to me that they are certainly a company that can quickly adapt to a changing marketplace!
MS's busy lawyers? Thats some funny stuff... I'm sure BG would love to invest more time and money into his empire so it doesn't get thrown around in courts. He has money, he will buy lawyers, he will probly go out golfing with Clinton again.
Somewhat offtopic, but I just saw Linus receiving the Prix Ars Electronica Golden Nika award on 3Sat (german/austrian/swiss public TV channel).
Man, this guy is real NICE. I guess the critics who're attacking him personally have never even seen him or heard him talk.
Although I'm not a big fan of Linux itself, count me in as a new Linus Torvalds admirer.
Linux is becoming so big, that Microsoft cannot
simply sit still. To be honest, Microsoft would
probably come with a Linux distro one day,
set up a 2 billion dollar campaign and everyone
would be sleeping in front of the computer shops
to get a copy. If Microsoft would make cola,
most people would buy it, because it's Microsoft.
Ofcourse we know Slackware and Debian are the true
Linux distros, but a mean, sly company like M$
could very easily take over the Linux imperium.
It would be a disaster, but it's the sad truth.
The real hackers among us would always use a real
distro, but most people are naive followers.
Of course they're going to lose eventually but they don't realize that yet, and by the time they do, they will no longer control more than 50% of the desktop market and a tiny percentage of the server market.
microsoft is barred from releasing or cooperating in any UNIX OS development/release from their contractual requirements with SCO.
of course they'll claim its a hoax, after m$ has lined their pockets with DM.
How can somebody who graduated from UCLA with a double major in physics and computer science not be able to install Linux? I don't have a degree from anywhere and can install redhat in under an hour. The educational system in this country must be going downhill fast.
The schools should get back to teaching the love of learning. Instead it's brightest and best students (like CmdData) can't be bothered to learn something new because "it's too complicated".
War is necrophilia.
I used to work for Siemens, fwiw. Even if this isn't a hoax, I doubt that they could get a hard-core software project like this out the door - there's just too much to be done in a company that doesn't necessarily admit that kind of stuff into its (straight laced, buttoned-down) culture.
--
--
There is no premature anti-fascism. -Ernest Hemingway
That was a rumour I heard at the Linux Expo anyway... Cheers, Ari
I really see the culture of corporate arrogance getting in the way of any move towards embracing Linux. I think that they would rather go completely down the tubes (which, it is sad to say, is almost completely unlikely) then even release their pathetic, expensive Office suite for Linux.
We'll be seeing more of this M$Linux hoax from time to time, and until we see the slick $2 billion add campaign, it won't be for real. But it's not going to happen. They would never be able to live down all of the press and web articles that would berate them for uncompatibilities and perversion of the Open Source ideals. Plus all of those of us who would laugh our collective asses off at the idea that they could actually sell copies and/or their presumed abandonment of their payware crappy server OS.
If M$ ever even endorsed a freeware OS, think of the money they would lose: A typical little server has to have $800 worth of base OS, $2500 worth of client licenses, $800 worth of decent backup software, $500-$5000 worth of usable remote access software and another $5000+ worth of remote windowing client software just to have the same functionality as a $2 Cheapbytes version of Linux.
They wouldn't throw this kind of profit away just to make a few pennies on Linux.
Actually the next version of Mandrake and Corel should alleviate these concerns. I'm one of the developers of one of these distros. (I won't say with a yahoo) but both Corel and Mandrake are doing great things with graphical installations for the new folks. Even though I'm a code contributor, I would still love a distro that's easy to set up. I tweak mine so much I'm always breaking stuff anyway.. ;-)
Well, the way I see it, Win9x rules more than 85% desktop PC's. Which is darn good, by any standards. The tendancy is for the PC market to keep on growing, even if that means that MS has to lower its prices to keep OEMs on track.
So what if Linux can grab 20% of the PC desktop market in the next 2/3/4 years?! MS will still have the majority of users in its hold, and will keep making alot of money from it, giving it a stronghold on new and powerful actions to respond any Linux attacks.
The best tactic MS has, is to try to use its strong presence on desktop as a leverage to force enterprises use its NT platform. I'm sure, we will see, more and more, server specific / client specific applications show up on NT and Windows (ie Exchange Premium); applications with proprietary protocols, that no linux will be allowed to replicate, client or server side.
I guess Linus is right when he says, "World Domination and fast!", because the less time MS has to think about it, the better!
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