Civil, mechanical and electrical engineers need to keep up with new technologies both in the design and the end product sides of the process.
Counterpoint: we now have advanced composite materials that are a hell of a lot better than wood and all sorts of wiring designs that are more efficient, safer, and generally better than what we used in the 70s.
And yet most new houses have at least a wooden frame and still have three-prong good ol' 120VAC outlets throughout.
Why do you think that is?
And before you say that's not a fair comparison, look at it this way: you can't change the electrical system without breaking compatibility and pissing off a lot of homeowners, and wood's usually good enough to get the job done.
Both reasons apply to PHP.
(Conterpoint to counterpoint: wood can easily go up in flames, and 120VAC is dangerous when used by children. Both of these points *also* apply to PHP.)
Which is a good start, but since AMD doesn't sell laptops or desktops, it's nowhere near enough.
We need buy-in from the mobo makers at a minimum (so that we at least have the option of going the DIY route), but realistically we're going to want some laptop or desktop vendors to start shipping boxes with CoreBoot... which in turn won't likely happen until said board makers make the option available. We're never gonna get the big guys (Dell, Lenovo, etc.) on board -- but if we get some board makers to ship with CoreBoot than the boutique vendors like Puget Systems might ship CoreBoot boards in some of their products.
I don't know if you're using "core" to mean "kernel" or "basic OS layout", but either way you'd be wrong. iOS is derived from OSX and shares the Darwin/XNU kernel, BSD subsystem and even the BSD userspace stuff with OSX. Most of the frameworks (Cocoa, etc) are also essentially the same or very similar.
Well he could be mostly right, actually.
Yes, the kernel and BSD userland are very, very similar, but once you move up the stack towards Cocoa there are actually quite a lot of differences. It's not as simple as s/NS/UI/ on the class names, case in point: JWZ's efforts to port Dali Clock.
Just a jump over the 49th parallel (Canada) we have Wind Mobile (major cities only). $40 for pretty everything unlimited, no contract. You guys in the U.S. are getting screwed up the ass.
Yeah, the US is horrible, etc. Got it.
Of course we have less-abusive providers too. Virgin Mobile provides unlimited everything for 55 USD/month. Boost Mobile offers unlimited everything for 50 USD/month scaling down to 40/month after 18 months. Page Plus Cellular provides unlimited talk and text and 2 GB of data -- on Verizon's network, no less -- for 40 USD/month.
Those are just three random MVNOs -- there's plenty more with similar or better pricing (such as Simple Talk, a T-Mobile MVNO, one of a few pushed by WalMart). There's also Cricket, iWireless, and plenty of other regional carriers (most of which have roaming agreements with at least one of the big three). All with no yearly contract.
The smart of us aren't getting "screwed up the ass". It's the ones silly enough to lock themselves into a contract with one of the big three that get screwed.
Every one of those bohemians from his early days all became wealthy, yet he was one of the only ones who actually lived as minimal a lifestyle as possible with all of his wealth.
Fix the families. Restore family values. Education and all other aspects of life will follow.
Come again?
What "family values" are these? If you're talking about the educational values of "yes, your child *can* and will fail if he doesn't work" or "no, we're not going to change his grades because you bitched about it", then I'm with you.
If, on the other hand, you're using "family values" in the way that many "Republican" candidates have... I'm not so sure that's the root problem.
I was about to comment with a similar slam of iOS by linking to the bug tracker and source repository for it, but then I realized that Radar (Apple's bug tracker) is private, and iOS is closed source.
Funny isn't it. When iOS development is in question, $99 to join the developer programme is too much money. But when it's Android, spending $thousands on test hardware is neither here nor there. It's even waved away with fantasies of free test hardware for developers.
Or, alternatively, it's possible that *both* are too much for some low levels of hobbyist developer. The difference is that the Android cost isn't a barrier to entry for version 1.0 by the "bedroom programmer" types.
A lot of good software starts as "some dude writing a program to do that thing that he needs" and goes from there. If he has to pay $99 just to scratch that itch, he might just learn to ignore it. If he's got an Android phone, writing and publishing an app to "scratch his itch" is as simple as grabbing the SDK and firing up Eclipse.
It's important to distinguish between a platform's appeal to the entrepreneurial "professional mobile start-up" types and the classic, "I'm releasing this because it might be useful to you" types. I'd hope that the latter resembles many of us on/. For these people, several large on hardware isn't realistic -- we write what we need for our device and release it so that it might help somebody else. And yeah, for that, $99 often too much.
Like if the WiFi signal was near a Jewish family's home, and let's say the family was named "Cohen". If the WiFi signal overlapped their home and was broadcasting an idea with a threat such as "CohensRKikes" or "DieJewScum" or similar, I can see a crime being involved.
Actually, in the US at least, only one of those would be *potentially* criminal ("DieJewScum"), and even then only if it could be argued that it seemed to present a threat.
"CohensRKikes", offensive and juvenile as it is, is legal. It's protected speech for me to call somebody a "kike", just as it's protected speech for someone to call me a fat Polish fag.
So I still use Debian on most of my systems, but have thrown Arch on a couple for fun. It's easy, it works, and it doesn't feel as crufty as Debian does. Package signing will make it a contender for real work. Yay Arch!
Can you describe it without the weasel words?
What do you mean when you describe Debian as "crufty"? What do you mean when you say Arch is "fun"?
I could use those words to describe just about any distro, but they don't really communicate anything other than that you prefer Arch over Debian for some unspecified reason(s) -- which we could easily guess from the rest of your post.
I'm not saying it is or is not a good distro -- I just don't think that "crufty" and "fun" mean much of anything. As The Dude says: "Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
From my experience.. the 30 year old device is built better, higher quality and will continue to operate for another 50 years. Unlike the utter crap that is available today that you will be lucky to keep working for 5 years.
Confirmation bias ahoy!
There was *plenty* of crappy hardware back in the 70s/80s. It's just that the crappy stuff never lasted long enough for geeks like you and I to get all nostalgic about it.
I think it's still indicative of the problem GP mentions. The more code you are trying to pull in, the larger the footprint during the build process. You don't see a 'Hello world' program requiring a 3GB+ build footprint do you? No, because it's not doing enough to warrant that. Likewise, Firefox apparently *is* trying to do a lot. More than it used to at any rate.
Well you're right in that Firefox does need a hell rather large amount of RAM to build... but it's not just them; all browsers are trying to do a lot nowadays.
Chrome doesn't exactly have light build requirements either. In fact, the Chromium project already seems to have dropped 32-bit build environments:
A 64 bit OS is highly recommended as building on 32 bit OS is constantly becoming harder, is a lot slower and is not actively maintained.
That's why I think that the parent poster's implication that it's due to Firefox becoming "bloated" is basically hogwash. Browsers are more complex than they were in the mid-90s. That's what happens when you add 10+ years of new formats and technologies that must be supported for a browser to be considered "usable". Directing one's ire at Firefox is unwarranted, IMHO.
Unfortunately, it's completely incorrect. TFA is talking about the build process on a 32-bit host, specifically that VS builds using profile-guided optimization require more memory than is available in the address space *DURING THE BUILD PROCESS*, not an issue encountered by the resulting binary.
I know you want a chance to get in a quick dig at Firefox, but this isn't the article for that.
You're technically right, but you're being misleading by comparing TMI to Chernobyl and you know it. From the article you linked to:
The average radiation dose to people living within ten miles of the plant was eight millirem, and no more than 100 millirem to any single individual. Eight millirem is about equal to a chest X-ray, and 100 millirem is about a third of the average background level of radiation received by US residents in a year.
So did it spread radiation to "our east coast"? Yes. Did it spread any significant, or even slightly meaningful radiation to our east coast? No.
Even better, the GUIs for things like Exchange 2010 allow you to view the CLI commands being used for any of the changes you make, so that you can easily script them, rather than having to try and work out which particular command and property name that checkbox needs.
The sponsor will not be given any special treatment with regards to comment score and moderation. The "expert" the sponsor will be providing to take part in the conversation will have an account which is "badged", meaning that it will be visually apparent when the a comment was posted by the sponsor.
So essentially the sponsor's representative can be modded up or down in the same way as anyone else? I can't see that going down well in companies without a sense of humour.
Has it occurred to you that some people don't share your view that everyone should be forced to use their code in a way consistent with Stallman's ideologies?
(As an aside: Apple has actually done a fair bit -- but since you're borderline trolling I wouldn't expect you to mention that.)
And yes, I do use FreeBSD exclusively on everything but my laptop. Who gives a shit if it's not listed on some popularity-ranking website? There were plenty of doofuses saying the same thing about Linux when it started, and Mac OS X back in 2001.
The BSD license allows people to use code for pretty much whatever purpose, provided that they don't claim to have written it. The GPL allows people to use code for whatever purpose -- provided they conform to the GPL ideology, license their code under the GPL, and don't use it in certain ways that Stallman et al. think are unacceptable.
You tell me which embodies the spirit of freedom more.
It's about far more than making things look pretty (and actual software developers are NOT the experts in that field, either, by the way). It's about studying how to make things usable. I am not an HCI expert, but I work with one, and I know that when she starts a project she sits down with users, interviews them, spends time observing how they work, until she understands the processes they go through better than anyone. Then she works with the developers to implement something that's usable, that makes sense, based on scientific research principles about how people work.
You hit the nail on the head. And you also demonstrated *why* the UIs for things like Unity sucked.
They did some of that for the Unity UI.
.
.
After they wrote it.
And then, when the results came back indicating serious flaws, they shipped it anyways. (Study is here if you're curious.)
And now, one year later, lo and behold, people are bitching about the same things. But yeah, Shuttleworth, I'm sure it's just that we're stick-in-the-mud "power users", right?
The entire Unity fiasco reeks of a group of self-proclaimed usability experts (who do none of what you described) mocking up something, building it, and then declaring "it's easier to use... and if you don't think so you just are stuck in your ways and hate change." It's change for the sake of change, pushed out a group of people who wished they could make the leap from designing pretty UIs in Photoshop to actually designing software that meets peoples needs. Only it seems their leap left them quite a bit short of the other side of the cliff.
What is the obsession with Windows 95 being the gold standard on which all desktop environments need to be based???
The "obsession" is with using a paradigm that's received nearly two decades of refinement.
The "obsession" is with not changing something just because it's old.
But hey, we're each free to do as we please. You can run the normal GNOME 3 shell, and I can configure it to behave like GNOME 2.
Oh. It seems I can't. They removed most of the configuration options.
No matter, I can still use the "fallback mode", which is simply the GNOME 2 UI ported to GTK 3. That way I... hey wait a sec... Ok, well it appears that they've actually gone out of their way to disable and remove the old functionality from the port so as to "better match the GNOME 3 experience".
Well, Linux then clearly does not pass "nerd" test either. Or perhaps I am not nerd enough. Anyway I do not even know most of the "tweaking" parameters, and I could not care less. I just want it to work.
Fair enough.
So go get yourself a new laptop, replace the drive and install Windows.
Ah, ah, ah. No. Don't install those drivers or that update from the OEM's site! That's a tweak. We're trying to be fair here. No tweaking. Just the OS.
Ok, so now that you've got it installed, you might be wondering why power management isn't as good and why some of the hardware doesn't work the way it used to.
Now you know my frustration with Windows. I don't know most of the "tweaking" parameters, and I could not care less. I just want it to work.
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Rand Paul != Ron Paul.
More importantly, Rand Paul !== Ron Paul.
Given his failure as a representative, why should we pay attention to anything else he says?
Your assertion that he's failed as a representative assumes that the only goal of a representative is to pass as many new laws as possible.
Parts of the whole "checks and balances" thing is that some people need to act as the checks.
Civil, mechanical and electrical engineers need to keep up with new technologies both in the design and the end product sides of the process.
Counterpoint: we now have advanced composite materials that are a hell of a lot better than wood and all sorts of wiring designs that are more efficient, safer, and generally better than what we used in the 70s.
And yet most new houses have at least a wooden frame and still have three-prong good ol' 120VAC outlets throughout.
Why do you think that is?
And before you say that's not a fair comparison, look at it this way: you can't change the electrical system without breaking compatibility and pissing off a lot of homeowners, and wood's usually good enough to get the job done.
Both reasons apply to PHP.
(Conterpoint to counterpoint: wood can easily go up in flames, and 120VAC is dangerous when used by children. Both of these points *also* apply to PHP.)
Which is a good start, but since AMD doesn't sell laptops or desktops, it's nowhere near enough.
We need buy-in from the mobo makers at a minimum (so that we at least have the option of going the DIY route), but realistically we're going to want some laptop or desktop vendors to start shipping boxes with CoreBoot... which in turn won't likely happen until said board makers make the option available. We're never gonna get the big guys (Dell, Lenovo, etc.) on board -- but if we get some board makers to ship with CoreBoot than the boutique vendors like Puget Systems might ship CoreBoot boards in some of their products.
I don't know if you're using "core" to mean "kernel" or "basic OS layout", but either way you'd be wrong. iOS is derived from OSX and shares the Darwin/XNU kernel, BSD subsystem and even the BSD userspace stuff with OSX. Most of the frameworks (Cocoa, etc) are also essentially the same or very similar.
Well he could be mostly right, actually.
Yes, the kernel and BSD userland are very, very similar, but once you move up the stack towards Cocoa there are actually quite a lot of differences. It's not as simple as s/NS/UI/ on the class names, case in point: JWZ's efforts to port Dali Clock.
Just a jump over the 49th parallel (Canada) we have Wind Mobile (major cities only). $40 for pretty everything unlimited, no contract. You guys in the U.S. are getting screwed up the ass.
Yeah, the US is horrible, etc. Got it.
Of course we have less-abusive providers too. Virgin Mobile provides unlimited everything for 55 USD/month. Boost Mobile offers unlimited everything for 50 USD/month scaling down to 40/month after 18 months. Page Plus Cellular provides unlimited talk and text and 2 GB of data -- on Verizon's network, no less -- for 40 USD/month.
Those are just three random MVNOs -- there's plenty more with similar or better pricing (such as Simple Talk, a T-Mobile MVNO, one of a few pushed by WalMart). There's also Cricket, iWireless, and plenty of other regional carriers (most of which have roaming agreements with at least one of the big three). All with no yearly contract.
The smart of us aren't getting "screwed up the ass". It's the ones silly enough to lock themselves into a contract with one of the big three that get screwed.
Every one of those bohemians from his early days all became wealthy, yet he was one of the only ones who actually lived as minimal a lifestyle as possible with all of his wealth.
Yeah, as minimal as possible.
Note the minimal, bohemian lifestyle demonstrated in the linked picture.
He also purchased 20,000+ square feet of house in what I assume must have been a demonstration against the evils of capitalism, right?
Sounds like an outsourced job.
Have you ever been so far as to wanting the Microsoft needful search? With JavaScript, you will experience the very social!
As modern Internet Explorer browser and functionality such as JavaScript support, download and try requested site again. ...
Yeah. About that... I'll leave NoScript on, thanks. :D
Fix the families. Restore family values. Education and all other aspects of life will follow.
Come again?
What "family values" are these? If you're talking about the educational values of "yes, your child *can* and will fail if he doesn't work" or "no, we're not going to change his grades because you bitched about it", then I'm with you.
If, on the other hand, you're using "family values" in the way that many "Republican" candidates have... I'm not so sure that's the root problem.
I was about to comment with a similar slam of iOS by linking to the bug tracker and source repository for it, but then I realized that Radar (Apple's bug tracker) is private, and iOS is closed source.
Or, alternatively, it's possible that *both* are too much for some low levels of hobbyist developer. The difference is that the Android cost isn't a barrier to entry for version 1.0 by the "bedroom programmer" types.
A lot of good software starts as "some dude writing a program to do that thing that he needs" and goes from there. If he has to pay $99 just to scratch that itch, he might just learn to ignore it. If he's got an Android phone, writing and publishing an app to "scratch his itch" is as simple as grabbing the SDK and firing up Eclipse.
It's important to distinguish between a platform's appeal to the entrepreneurial "professional mobile start-up" types and the classic, "I'm releasing this because it might be useful to you" types. I'd hope that the latter resembles many of us on /. For these people, several large on hardware isn't realistic -- we write what we need for our device and release it so that it might help somebody else. And yeah, for that, $99 often too much.
Like if the WiFi signal was near a Jewish family's home, and let's say the family was named "Cohen". If the WiFi signal overlapped their home and was broadcasting an idea with a threat such as "CohensRKikes" or "DieJewScum" or similar, I can see a crime being involved.
Actually, in the US at least, only one of those would be *potentially* criminal ("DieJewScum"), and even then only if it could be argued that it seemed to present a threat.
"CohensRKikes", offensive and juvenile as it is, is legal. It's protected speech for me to call somebody a "kike", just as it's protected speech for someone to call me a fat Polish fag.
So I still use Debian on most of my systems, but have thrown Arch on a couple for fun. It's easy, it works, and it doesn't feel as crufty as Debian does. Package signing will make it a contender for real work. Yay Arch!
Can you describe it without the weasel words?
What do you mean when you describe Debian as "crufty"? What do you mean when you say Arch is "fun"?
I could use those words to describe just about any distro, but they don't really communicate anything other than that you prefer Arch over Debian for some unspecified reason(s) -- which we could easily guess from the rest of your post.
I'm not saying it is or is not a good distro -- I just don't think that "crufty" and "fun" mean much of anything. As The Dude says: "Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
From my experience.. the 30 year old device is built better, higher quality and will continue to operate for another 50 years. Unlike the utter crap that is available today that you will be lucky to keep working for 5 years.
Confirmation bias ahoy!
There was *plenty* of crappy hardware back in the 70s/80s. It's just that the crappy stuff never lasted long enough for geeks like you and I to get all nostalgic about it.
Well you're right in that Firefox does need a hell rather large amount of RAM to build... but it's not just them; all browsers are trying to do a lot nowadays.
Chrome doesn't exactly have light build requirements either. In fact, the Chromium project already seems to have dropped 32-bit build environments:
(From "Build Instructions (Windows) - Build Environment")
That's why I think that the parent poster's implication that it's due to Firefox becoming "bloated" is basically hogwash. Browsers are more complex than they were in the mid-90s. That's what happens when you add 10+ years of new formats and technologies that must be supported for a browser to be considered "usable". Directing one's ire at Firefox is unwarranted, IMHO.
An excellent takeaway from this article.
Unfortunately, it's completely incorrect. TFA is talking about the build process on a 32-bit host, specifically that VS builds using profile-guided optimization require more memory than is available in the address space *DURING THE BUILD PROCESS*, not an issue encountered by the resulting binary.
I know you want a chance to get in a quick dig at Firefox, but this isn't the article for that.
You're technically right, but you're being misleading by comparing TMI to Chernobyl and you know it. From the article you linked to:
So did it spread radiation to "our east coast"? Yes. Did it spread any significant, or even slightly meaningful radiation to our east coast? No.
Holy SMIT! (Everything old is new again.)
Annnnd now I feel old.
That is not a bad thing.
The biggest idiocy of GNOME 3 last time I tried it (Ubuntu 11.10) was that Right click on the panel didn't work.
I hate to break it to you, but Ubuntu's UI is Unity, not GNOME Shell. It has nothing to do with GNOME.
Has it occurred to you that some people don't share your view that everyone should be forced to use their code in a way consistent with Stallman's ideologies?
(As an aside: Apple has actually done a fair bit -- but since you're borderline trolling I wouldn't expect you to mention that.)
And yes, I do use FreeBSD exclusively on everything but my laptop. Who gives a shit if it's not listed on some popularity-ranking website? There were plenty of doofuses saying the same thing about Linux when it started, and Mac OS X back in 2001.
The BSD license allows people to use code for pretty much whatever purpose, provided that they don't claim to have written it. The GPL allows people to use code for whatever purpose -- provided they conform to the GPL ideology, license their code under the GPL, and don't use it in certain ways that Stallman et al. think are unacceptable.
You tell me which embodies the spirit of freedom more.
Tell me, Fluffeh, where did you manage to purchase your computer?
I'd love to have a laptop that wasn't produced primarily with Chinese components, so I'm dying to find out where you got yours!
It's about far more than making things look pretty (and actual software developers are NOT the experts in that field, either, by the way). It's about studying how to make things usable. I am not an HCI expert, but I work with one, and I know that when she starts a project she sits down with users, interviews them, spends time observing how they work, until she understands the processes they go through better than anyone. Then she works with the developers to implement something that's usable, that makes sense, based on scientific research principles about how people work.
You hit the nail on the head. And you also demonstrated *why* the UIs for things like Unity sucked.
They did some of that for the Unity UI.
.
.
After they wrote it.
And then, when the results came back indicating serious flaws, they shipped it anyways. (Study is here if you're curious.)
And now, one year later, lo and behold, people are bitching about the same things. But yeah, Shuttleworth, I'm sure it's just that we're stick-in-the-mud "power users", right?
The entire Unity fiasco reeks of a group of self-proclaimed usability experts (who do none of what you described) mocking up something, building it, and then declaring "it's easier to use... and if you don't think so you just are stuck in your ways and hate change." It's change for the sake of change, pushed out a group of people who wished they could make the leap from designing pretty UIs in Photoshop to actually designing software that meets peoples needs. Only it seems their leap left them quite a bit short of the other side of the cliff.
The "obsession" is with using a paradigm that's received nearly two decades of refinement.
The "obsession" is with not changing something just because it's old.
But hey, we're each free to do as we please. You can run the normal GNOME 3 shell, and I can configure it to behave like GNOME 2.
Oh. It seems I can't. They removed most of the configuration options.
No matter, I can still use the "fallback mode", which is simply the GNOME 2 UI ported to GTK 3. That way I... hey wait a sec... Ok, well it appears that they've actually gone out of their way to disable and remove the old functionality from the port so as to "better match the GNOME 3 experience".
Ah. So *that* would be why we're pissed then.
Well, Linux then clearly does not pass "nerd" test either. Or perhaps I am not nerd enough. Anyway I do not even know most of the "tweaking" parameters, and I could not care less. I just want it to work.
Fair enough.
So go get yourself a new laptop, replace the drive and install Windows.
Ah, ah, ah. No. Don't install those drivers or that update from the OEM's site! That's a tweak. We're trying to be fair here. No tweaking. Just the OS.
Ok, so now that you've got it installed, you might be wondering why power management isn't as good and why some of the hardware doesn't work the way it used to.
Now you know my frustration with Windows. I don't know most of the "tweaking" parameters, and I could not care less. I just want it to work.