Yep, overnight at 11:59:59 on the eve of not being 17, a switch flips and they magically become grown-up. If you ever spend time interacting with 18 year olds (for example teaching undergrads), you will realise they are most definitely kids from the perspective of someone older. Hell, a good number haven't finished growing upwards yet, never mind losing the skinny teenager look.
If you're old enough to vote you count as an adult. Any attempt to apply individual "maturity" tests would be entirely unworkable, so you have to have some sort of cut off.
Do we raid the houses of everyone who steals hammers or screwdrivers?
No, but we do arrest them.
It iseems pretty self evident to me that if you suspect someone of acquiring bomb making materials you're going to treat his arrest with a little more seriousness than nicking someone for shoplifting a hand tool.
It's not about what the cops did, it's about the sheepish reaction from the neighbor, whose "Don't question authority" attitude lends itself to the formation of authoritarian regimes. Eternal vigilance to tyranny is the price of liberty, but most people are more concerned with bread and circuses because thinking is too hard.
I'm sure if you tried you could have fit a few more libertarian cliches in that paragraph, although you do get some credit for not actually using the word "sheeple".
still doesn't give you the right to trespass and steal.
Whose property was he trespassing on? Whose property was he stealing? You have to have a victim before you can have a crime. If it was abandoned, then there is no victim.
A classic example of mistakenly extrapolating from geek terminology (abandonware) to real life.
You are right, it doesn't, but good chance we all have done similar. If not, I weep for your young adulthood. It was abandoned and a calculated risk of a kid who couldn't afford to buy his own. This is what we call a gray area, the intention was fine by most but by the law, his life will be ruined in the pursuit of further knowledge.
Yay America.... Where gaining and pursuing knowledge is socially unacceptable.
I may have a burning desire to learn all about nuclear weapons, that doesn't justify me illegally importing some weapons grade uranium.
Acquiring knowledge does not in itself justify breaking the law.
I don't understand the sense of enlightenment that allows people to claim that things they no longer use are still "owned" by them. Maybe in an abstract, capitalist sense, but in the real world, once you abandon something, it belongs to everyone. Use it or lose it.
Don't be silly. If I buy a car or painting and store it in a garage or vault for a few years, it certainly is still my property.
Unless you live in Somalia or something, you have been watching too many post-apocalypse dystopian movies.
It's funny that my generation is not the one with all the crazy levels of autism claims, and we're the ones that freely played around with mercury in our chemistry classes.
That's because the toxic lead in petrol (gasoline) neutralised the effects of all that toxic mercury. Yet another case of nanny state interference ruining lives.
Your first 1000 hours doing new things are high risk. Even 50 year old new pilots are a hazard for their first 1000 hours.
Teenagers however are both learning to drive and learning to drink, so they get a double whammy. The solution, of course, is to lower the drinking age and raise the driving age. So they learn one then the other, not both at the same time.
Rubbish, you can't learn to drink and drive safely through practice.
Yes it does. That's the beauty of the commons. Abandoned things belong to all of use. Especially mercury switches, which are likely the only way this kid can get mercury to experiment with.
Abandoned things might belong to all of us morally, but they don't legally.
If I leave my car parked somewhere for a few weeks and you decide I've abandoned it and drive off in it, you have stolen it.
I just checked my bank account, and I have about $4,000,000,000 more or so than I did yesterday... for some reason. So I'll be happy to take care of some inconveniences this may cause. I just have to go out and, um, buy a few things first.
I guess a few billion here, a few billion there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money.
A suspended sentence really is a very minor punishment
Unless that term means something different in your country, it is still a criminal conviction, it just means that you don't actually go to prison (if you don't re-offend during the term of suspension).
Having a criminal conviction has all sorts of consequences, it is a serious punishment in itself.
/sarcasm Riiight, because taking 30 seconds out of my 5 minute budget to hopefully enligthen carni that he has unresolved issues is a SUCH a waste of time.
That's 60 seconds now.
And if you read this and reply to it, another 30 seconds...
Do you keep, like, a chess clock next to your computer?
I spend 5 minutes / day reading/. and Reddit spread throughout the day. Any more then ~5 minutes is time wasted that could be spend more efficiently building your business, helping people, networking, etc.
Slashdot Mirror
Oh, and yes, "trespassing" is bad -- that's why I'm sure none of us ever did it as children
That doesn't necessarily make it right.
Anyway, trespassing covers a wide range of activities, from straying onto your neighbour's lawn to using wire cutters to break into a military base.
Heck, we used to walk out to the fence just in front of runway and try and hit the planes with rocks. I'll bet that gets you into Gitmo these days.
So you would just write if off as childish horseplay, even if you managed to hit a plance and cause some damage?
Between terrorism and innocent fun there is still huge grey area of minor and major crimes.
Yep, overnight at 11:59:59 on the eve of not being 17, a switch flips and they magically become grown-up. If you ever spend time interacting with 18 year olds (for example teaching undergrads), you will realise they are most definitely kids from the perspective of someone older. Hell, a good number haven't finished growing upwards yet, never mind losing the skinny teenager look.
If you're old enough to vote you count as an adult. Any attempt to apply individual "maturity" tests would be entirely unworkable, so you have to have some sort of cut off.
How do you make explosives with duct tape?
In the movies they wrap the sticks of dynamite and big clicking clock thing together with sticky tape.
Do we raid the houses of everyone who steals hammers or screwdrivers?
No, but we do arrest them.
It iseems pretty self evident to me that if you suspect someone of acquiring bomb making materials you're going to treat his arrest with a little more seriousness than nicking someone for shoplifting a hand tool.
It's not about what the cops did, it's about the sheepish reaction from the neighbor, whose "Don't question authority" attitude lends itself to the formation of authoritarian regimes. Eternal vigilance to tyranny is the price of liberty, but most people are more concerned with bread and circuses because thinking is too hard.
I'm sure if you tried you could have fit a few more libertarian cliches in that paragraph, although you do get some credit for not actually using the word "sheeple".
You gotta wonder why he thought it was OK to trespass and steal switches though.
It's a matter of common law concerning property that has been abandoned since you can remember. Experts summarize it as "You snooze, you lose".
I would be interested to see some case law on this fascinating legal concept.
still doesn't give you the right to trespass and steal.
Whose property was he trespassing on? Whose property was he stealing? You have to have a victim before you can have a crime. If it was abandoned, then there is no victim.
A classic example of mistakenly extrapolating from geek terminology (abandonware) to real life.
You are right, it doesn't, but good chance we all have done similar. If not, I weep for your young adulthood. It was abandoned and a calculated risk of a kid who couldn't afford to buy his own. This is what we call a gray area, the intention was fine by most but by the law, his life will be ruined in the pursuit of further knowledge. Yay America.... Where gaining and pursuing knowledge is socially unacceptable.
I may have a burning desire to learn all about nuclear weapons, that doesn't justify me illegally importing some weapons grade uranium.
Acquiring knowledge does not in itself justify breaking the law.
I don't understand the sense of enlightenment that allows people to claim that things they no longer use are still "owned" by them. Maybe in an abstract, capitalist sense, but in the real world, once you abandon something, it belongs to everyone. Use it or lose it.
Don't be silly. If I buy a car or painting and store it in a garage or vault for a few years, it certainly is still my property.
Unless you live in Somalia or something, you have been watching too many post-apocalypse dystopian movies.
Abandonment is part of real property law. It's called adverse possession.
Adverse possession refers to land, not some made up "finders keepers" imaginary law.
If they wanted it, they would have nailed it down.
If I can pry it up, it isn't nailed down.
So it's fine to steal cars, since they are seldom nailed down?
It's funny that my generation is not the one with all the crazy levels of autism claims, and we're the ones that freely played around with mercury in our chemistry classes.
That's because the toxic lead in petrol (gasoline) neutralised the effects of all that toxic mercury. Yet another case of nanny state interference ruining lives.
this kid sounds intrepid and bright /quote
You can be an intrepid and bright sociopath.
Your first 1000 hours doing new things are high risk. Even 50 year old new pilots are a hazard for their first 1000 hours.
Teenagers however are both learning to drive and learning to drink, so they get a double whammy. The solution, of course, is to lower the drinking age and raise the driving age. So they learn one then the other, not both at the same time.
Rubbish, you can't learn to drink and drive safely through practice.
Yes it does. That's the beauty of the commons. Abandoned things belong to all of use. Especially mercury switches, which are likely the only way this kid can get mercury to experiment with.
Abandoned things might belong to all of us morally, but they don't legally.
If I leave my car parked somewhere for a few weeks and you decide I've abandoned it and drive off in it, you have stolen it.
I just checked my bank account, and I have about $4,000,000,000 more or so than I did yesterday ... for some reason. So I'll be happy to take care of some inconveniences this may cause. I just have to go out and, um, buy a few things first.
I guess a few billion here, a few billion there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money.
the first one was you can't last more than 5 minutes without air
Do you really need to go on an escape and evasion course to find this out?
I don't recall saying what caused it to go down.
$5, like your mom.
A suspended sentence really is a very minor punishment
Unless that term means something different in your country, it is still a criminal conviction, it just means that you don't actually go to prison (if you don't re-offend during the term of suspension).
Having a criminal conviction has all sorts of consequences, it is a serious punishment in itself.
/sarcasm Riiight, because taking 30 seconds out of my 5 minute budget to hopefully enligthen carni that he has unresolved issues is a SUCH a waste of time.
That's 60 seconds now.
And if you read this and reply to it, another 30 seconds...
Do you keep, like, a chess clock next to your computer?
I spend 5 minutes / day reading /. and Reddit spread throughout the day. Any more then ~5 minutes is time wasted that could be spend more efficiently building your business, helping people, networking, etc.
I really hope this is supposed to be a joke.
Their latest authoritative decision is to forbid people who own more than 5% of a company's stock from selling for the next 6 months.
I think you mean authoritarian.
Ahem. The Communist Chinese Government.
People seem to have forgotten that at their roots, they're not a capitalist society. They only play at being one.
They are also only playing at being communist. It's just possible there isn't a simple binary choice between pure capitalism and pure communism.
You do realize that an apartment building is utterly worthless if you can't get paying tenants for it, don't you?
Once the elemental asset that is land becomes worthless, it's difficult to see what sort of economy you have left at all.