Anyways, i still find it odd that you actually had an experience like that without refusing to read somethign or intentionaly trying to piss someone off in the proccess..
Yea, me too. I guess maybe it had to do with my experiance with windows chat, and my dislike of posting the equivelant of my above post in a chat room. People didn't even listen to what I was saying, that I had the HOWTO, etc... Just told to read the directions.
(yes going into a bsd channel asking for help with linux would do that.)
Well, I didn't go into a BSD channel - Yahoo chat only has one channel for all *nix OS's.
It amazes me to read post after post like this that try to claim they are representive of the "new user experience".
Well, maybe you read so many posts like this about linux because this is the average Windows user's experiance! I'm not claiming that I am representative of the "new user experiance"TM. I am stating my experiance, that of my cousin and sister. Their response to the 3d problem was "why doesn't 3d work?" and "Who in their right mind would not ship with 3d drivers in an OS?" Followed by, "I can't play half of the included games... why the heck are they there if SuSE won't include the stuff to make them work?" followed by "I need to boot windows so my graphics card works".
I think that is likely the new user's response, but I could be wrong.
I can't see many users putting in the time, putting up with the harrassment or trying to understand the often arcane or just wrong HOWTO's and manuals to use Linux.
Well, that's what I got out of it. I get attitude, I give attitude. No, no one owes me anything.
What I get is that the linux community is unprofessional, and unready to be anything more than a footnote in the everyday users life. I start to think that Linux is used in servers where people already know what they are doing from UNIX support, and are just looking for a cheap alternative. Sorry, but Linux isn't ready for prime time, and Microsoft - despite all their faults - remains the professional desktop solution.
Sadly, go to Walmart or Radio Shack. Really. And I haven't dealt with Radio Shack really in a long time because of their high prices.
The one major thing that WalMard does right in my experiance is that if you bring back something with a barcode intact that they can scan to see if they sold it, they give you cash. You can then go get another one new, and pay the cash for it or go somewhere else or whatever. This holds for a year. On anything they sell. This is why I buy stuff there.
The only other thing I can think of is to use a decent credit card with purchase protection.
So NewYork state is not the civilized world? Cause I live there, around Ithaca actually, and there is NO broadband - only dial-up. (Well satallite, but $100 a month 2x what I'd be willing to pay). Modems are not a thing of the past, more than half the people I know that are online use modems, cause that's the only way to get online.
Ok, so SuSE is great for new linux users, but you can't install new software... Why?
So SuSe uses RPM, if it's so bad, why do they use it? Isn't YaST supposed to be easy to use? How do you get it to install any random program you see on a website that you want?
So RPM's are bad - what is yum? apt? Can these work on SuSE? How would one use these in YaST? Or do they have something the same? Does this break YaST/SuSe install entirely? Can they import the YaST database or whatever it has that you are supposed to protect? Can it work vice versa? Will yum or apt get the official updates from SuSE to work?
I am just trying to get to use SuSE 9.1 Pro - which I bought, to be more than a linux exhibit. I still can't use it day to day cause I can't install new software. Granted, I've only been using it for 5 days now, but I remember my first Windows box - Win95, and I had new games installed (that I bought at EB) about 10 minutes after turning it on.
So why can't you just download some Linux program and install it? That is what I am looking for. I doubt I'll be able to leave windows till I can just dl the equivelent of an setup.exe and double click it to install - on ANY linux distro. Just like they work (almost all) on ANY windows version, be it 95,98,2k,XP...
Anything more than rpm vs tar (NT vs 9X) is too hard and way too complicated. I (and most people I know) can understand that you need a rpm for SuSe, but don't get why an rpm isn't an rpm whether you are in Mandrake, SuSe, RedHat or whatever.
Ok, I'm using SuSE 9.1, and I think Yast Online Update is similar based on your description. How do I find these magic software servers for things beyond core updates? Like if I find some game - Wormux, how do I get YOU(YaST Online Update) to just "make it work" like it does with the Opera upgrades or whatever?
Ok, but I have the SUSE HOWTO. I went to the first link, and my distro 9.1 isn't listed. The other links don't look like they talk anything about YaST not showing anything to install. I was already at the nVidia site where my distro was listed.
how you ask questions, is very important.
Well, excuse me for asking a wrongly formatted question. I missed the memo on that one.
Seriously - in the windows camp, I don't think I've ever heard someone ignored for "asking a question wrong". In my example - when windows people come in and ask "Can I ask a Question?" They are at least encouraged to "just ask the question". Not ignored becasue they had the wrong format.
If they come in to a chat room and ask "How do I download?", they are usually asked further questions like "Download what? From where? What have you tried?".
Again, I understand that maybe people get tired of answering the same question all the time. Well, it's a volunteer position! Windows rooms in Yahoo and elsewhere help people out, they don't make fun of them. This attitude makes me even more firm that as much as I hate MS business practices, their community is much better than the Linux one. And their OS is still orders of magnitude easier to use, and this is why I install Linux on backup computers - cause when I want to do stuff with the computer (not do stuff to the computer) I still have to use Windows, cause I don't have to fight with the system, the community or the manual.
I'm not knocking SuSe tech support. RTFP. I am knocking the vaunted "Linux Community". I bought Linux, how many do? What about the people who downloaded the free.iso? I thought that because of all the posts that you don't need company support, that I could get by without it. Also, the system was running - and I didn't think that configuring (note the term) would be covered by installation support. Not to mention, I've never needed to call tech support to install graphics drivers in windows. Why would I expect to need to do so in Linux?
To respond, this is the same thing I got in other forums. That is what I did. After that, there was no options at all. Blank lists of what to install. I tried 7 or more mirrors, with either failing to connect to connect or downloading upgrade info and then displaying "No Upgrades Available".
Maybe instead of kneejerking RTFM, you might RTFP as I detailed this in my post.
Let me just agree with the parent. I am a many year windows user, and have taken courses in college in server linux setup, mail, ftp, etc... but this was in RedHat 7.0. I never really was a Linux guru, and hadn't used it for 2 years so I am rusty at best. I just picked up SUSE 9.1 Pro for $90 this past friday, and have run into this sort of attitude trying to get help from the supposed linux community (as I don't believe SUSE tech support was open late at night or would cover getting nVidia 3d working (BTW - what legalities in distroing it...??? I paid SUSE, can't they license it from nVidia or something?)).
Let me just say that they were less than helpful. Forum posts were unanswered, even today (Ok, it's free - but most people don't wait 4+ days for help). Chat rooms were downright rude!
Now, I guess I approached the chat rooms wrong, but I really doubt many people go into a chat room and ask for help until they have exhausted their knowledge of other information sources. I at least try the vendor's site. There I got redirected to a SUSE howto so I didn't try google, I tried to follow those instructions.
Not helped by dial-up, the US servers are atrocious, and the german ones fail at least 30% of the time where I am. This right away leads me to wonder wth? So I keep messing around, and figure out it's just network issues. So I finally get YaST to download "information" about updates - this takes a good hour. What the heck info is THIS??? When it finishes, it says "no updates available"
Now, I know this is wrong, or the HowTO is wrong, cause the HowTo says to select "install nVidia drivers" from a list that I think is supposed to appear here. But - there is no list.
Now, nowhere in the HowTo does it say what to do if there isn't a list or option in YaST. So I join an IRC chatroom #Linux in freenode. I'm ignored completely for about 30 min, I take the hint and try elsewhere.
I try Yahoo linux, solaris, bsd room. Here I impart the above information, am promptly told RTFM, and that I am stupid, and iggyed for being a moron.
Well thank you very much, I think I'll go back to WinXP now where I can at least manage to install nVidia drivers gasp without a manual! So I give up for a while and do some useful stuff in windows (which works).
Then I decide I am taking the easy way out. Rinse and repeat above.
Ok - third try is the charm, some nice person listens to my problem in yahoo, and tells me that I have to "reload all patches" from the server, and this is not enabled in YaST by default for some reason... and if I don't check this, YaST wasts a long time downloading something, but doesn't actually do anything. Well, I should have guessed! I normally wouldn't reload something unless I had already had some values previously loaded.
I do this, and presto it works! YAY!
Most people I think would have concluded that SuSe is broken, Linux's vaunted community is populated by assholes, and go back to windows not to look back for another 2 years (if ever) and used maybe even ended up with Longhorn.
Ok, this is something that will have to change. Even the yahoo windows rooms aren't this dismissive - far from it in my experiance. There people don't auto ignore you for asking (of all things) "Can I ask a question?" or "How do I download something?". At least these people get some help - they have to act far dumber than I was to get put down and Iggyied.
Maybe MS free supporters expect a much lower IQ, IDK, but they certainly make those looking for help feel more welcome. Linux will never get on the average users machines if they are insulted trying to get the basics to work.
Now, I'm on a quest to try and install something not listed in YaST. Similar results. FYI its Worx.4 I think(Worms clone found in happypenguin site I think). Any pointers, or step by step for SuSe 9.1 Pro of course appreciated.
This must be work related, cause I sure don't use this at home. I don't know if Opera is trying to be a work browser or not - but I hear this alot regarding NTLM, and wish they would add it as it seems like it would really help get new customers. I don't know if the lack of it is : they haven't gotten to it yet, security issue, patent style issue, or they haven't thought of it being important. Cruise on over to the Opera forums, and search for What you want in Opera 8, and leave feedback. At least that way you get heard.
Well, seeing as this is a good learning experiance or whatever, let me attempt to at least point out some percieved losses in Opera, and where they are.
hird-party toolbar features (e.g., next-up-url-path, highlight / find terms in page).
Well, Opera has many of those things built in. Pressing A selects the first link on a page, and each press goes to the next one. Q goes the opposite direction. Press F4 for the panels/hotlist and select links and see a tree list of all the links on the page.
Ctrl-F brings up find next. Pressing / and typing finds as you type. Highlight, normal for Windows... not sure what you want here.
"Opera keeps history (what you mean by back traces I think)". Almost what I meant, the only difference being that each window has it's own history of how I arrived at the current page.
Each page keeps it's history of how you got there.
Yes, but I just don't happen to care for the MDI paradigm.
Then I guess all the fuss about tabbed browsing really doesn't matter to you. Personal preference can't be argued, so I'll say that you can set Opera in Preferences for any combination of MDI, SDI or tabbed browsing you want. I do not know how some of the above works with that though, as I much prefer MDI, and the less resources that seems to take on my machine (I mean system is faster with 10 pages open in one Opera instance than 10 IE instances open on the taskbar).
I don't use webwasher as it costs $$".
My bad, for some reason I was thinking of SpySweeper. I never looked at webwasher as I have proxomitron.
Outpost and ditched ZA-Pro
I ditched ZA also, too slow. I now use Sygate. As Opera often has issues with firewalls changing the HTTP stream, I don't want one that tries to change it. Proxomitron works (for whatever reason) and again I don't want programs doing more than one thing (personal modularity preference). Sygate works well for me, but I have heard good things about using Outpost. I certainly would not use WinXP online without a software firewall.
Yes, but don't want to. I keep separate "ordinary" folders/dirs by subject or project, containing *any* type of pertinent file, be it txt, eml, url, etc.
Yes I just tested, you can drag and drop URL's from Opera to the desktop or wherever. Never tried it before, didn't know it could be done.
OTOH, I didn't need to RTFM for IE, either, in order to figure out how to do these things.
I'll admit, I did have to RTFM just now to figure out some of your questions, however, some - like drag and drop - if you figured it out in IE, you figured it out in Opera. The Hotlist/panels is on by default in Opera, and a links button might clue me into trying it if I wondered how I might see all links in a page or whatever.
The history part, if Opera crashes, it defaults to asking you if you want to start back where you were. I can't see how this wouldd't be an obvious thing - no manual needed here.
The keyboard stuff, sure need a manual - but really - Help - Opera help, second link is keyboard, lists all this.
Finally, my prior post omitted another entire category of right-click thing-ies which work only on an IE page, e.g. (admittedly with possible *individual* exceptions):
View Source, Document Tree, Links List, Backward Links, Open Frame In New (unframed) Window, etc.
One problem is I don't know just when you looked at Opera. I am working with 7.51, so if you looked at v5, there will be some differences.
View Source: Right click - frame, view source, or alt - F3.
I believe I already indicated the Links List with the hotlist/panels(you can customize these - there are two main styles - hence my use of both names).
Frames: Again, right click, frames - open in new page, or background page.
Interestingly enough, at least in MDI mode - Opera even (within a session) keeps track of pages you closed, so if you accidently close a page, you can ctrl - z or window, closed pages and get it back, right where it was in the page list and with all history.
Well, you must never have really RTFM with Opera then(probably Firefox either).
1. On Win (which I must still use sometimes), ffox is the slowest of the 3 (especially re-draw), even though I'm always on the latest release.
Well, not having used Firefox, I don't know. But I find it hard to believe anything could be slower than IE in my experiance. 40+ seconds(on dial up true) to load a page that takes 11 seconds in Opera. Pathetic.
2. I can't get the other browsers to do the simplest, stupidest things I can do in IE, e.g.: drag/drop shortcuts between address-bar & folders, or File=>Send=>Shortcut To Desktop, or drag a link from a page to the address-bar (a sure-fire "use the same window, dammit").
I dunno, maybe I just didn't RTFM.
I can't grok why anyone in their right mind would want to do this, but I believe you can just go add to bookmarks that is at the top of the list inside a submenu in the bookmark list. Can't send a shortcut to the desktop... you can copy the address... again, I can't see any real reason to do this. It's pretty easy in Opera to open a link wherever you want, either as a button/click or rightclick option, but you can also drag a link from a page to the address bar.
3. I make genuinely productive use of toolbars (e.g. Google) unavailable on other browsers.
Again, in opera it comes default with a search option box for google, amazon, alltheweb, etc... You can add your own. Opera comes with pop-up blocking. I can't comment on other bars as I don't use them, nor have any idea which others you use but did not mention.
I don't grok the excitement of tabbed windows. I much prefer being able to position pages independently in separate windows. And if one of those windows crashes or hangs, I don't lose the others (or their back-traces).
You are very lucky, every time IE crashed for me, it took all it's windows with it, and the task bar(system tray stuff) - even in XP pro.
Opera has MDI, which is more than tabbed windows, you can arrange as desired inside Opera - much less task bar clutter. Ever tried the Continue from last time? Right back where you were - even after a crash, and keeps history (what you mean by back traces I think).
As for security, I do quite well with the combo of common sense, frequennt AV updates, SpyBot, AdAware, WebWasher, and very aggressive/paranoid firewall settings. (I love Agnitum Outpost, which lets me control cookies, ActiveX, JavaScript, etc. -- each *separately* -- on a per-domain basis.)
Well, I use AV, spybot etc, but since I stopped using Kazaa, and have been using Opera, guess what? I haven't found any spyware with SpyBor or AdAware (I don't use webwasher as it costs $$, and as I'm not getting infected I don't see the point of wasting money). Good firewall settings are a good idea, and I commend you. However I don't have to use my firewall to keep my browser in line just by using Opera. Much easier. Although, I do also recommend Proxomitron. Great ad control.
If you are in NY, HSBC both is a great bank with branches in darn near every town, as well as having a site that works with Opera fine. IDK about Mozilla as I don't use it, but I would expect it to be similar.
1. Yes the previous theme was better. But it's _real_ easy to install new themes.
To power users the default theme is irrelevant. Not so to non techies. For both Opera and Mozilla there is a huge battle waged in various forums about what should be the default theme. What buttons should be present. The problem is that the only way to do this would be massive UI testing, something neither Opera as a small company nor Mozilla as a volunteer work have $$ for. And almost no one agrees as to what should be there.
That's what we have in NY state right now, we got ads for different providers, and some were like 1/2 the cost of NYSEG, but they were all variable, so my family was scared of that, and decided to stick with the NYSEG flat rate plan (which now is more like a mutual fund I guess) that is fixed for a year... Even with competition available, most older people won't change from what they know.
Well, the way I've converted people (including newbies) to Opera 7.xx is by showing it to them. They usually like it mainly for the speed, especially the back/forward speed. They also like the lack of spyware, and the pop-up blocking.
Many also like the skins, cause they do like to skin damn near everything into unrecognizability.
Wrong. I just did this today to try out Iso Buster, the drive tried to read continously(without success) but windows XP didn't even slow down, much less stop responding. I eventually just opened the drive again, giving up.
Until MCI(who ownes that service, and who I worked for once) decides that was a request to order LD service at 5.95 a month and to be billed to timbuk tu NJ. Then they start calling you asking for Joe Last customer who had your # in 1911, won't tell you why they are calling cause you keep saying Joe doesn't live here. Then they realise their data is wrong, update it but do this just before they send you to collections for the $80 in monthly fees they racked up. Then when you call in with questions about your credit report, they have purged the record of your "account" and refuse to remove the bad credit rating, and only will refer you to the collection agency, who won't forgive the debt either, but will refer you back to MCI.
Best part is 10-10-321 is advirtised as being from TelcomUSA, so why the heck you have bad credit from MCI most people don't know!
I got calls about this at least 4 times a week in one call center out of like 10 of 300-1200 people each. That should tell you how often this happened.
Slashdot Mirror
Anyways, i still find it odd that you actually had an experience like that without refusing to read somethign or intentionaly trying to piss someone off in the proccess..
Yea, me too. I guess maybe it had to do with my experiance with windows chat, and my dislike of posting the equivelant of my above post in a chat room. People didn't even listen to what I was saying, that I had the HOWTO, etc... Just told to read the directions.
(yes going into a bsd channel asking for help with linux would do that.)
Well, I didn't go into a BSD channel - Yahoo chat only has one channel for all *nix OS's.
It amazes me to read post after post like this that try to claim they are representive of the "new user experience".
Well, maybe you read so many posts like this about linux because this is the average Windows user's experiance! I'm not claiming that I am representative of the "new user experiance"TM. I am stating my experiance, that of my cousin and sister. Their response to the 3d problem was "why doesn't 3d work?" and "Who in their right mind would not ship with 3d drivers in an OS?" Followed by, "I can't play half of the included games... why the heck are they there if SuSE won't include the stuff to make them work?" followed by "I need to boot windows so my graphics card works".
I think that is likely the new user's response, but I could be wrong.
I can't see many users putting in the time, putting up with the harrassment or trying to understand the often arcane or just wrong HOWTO's and manuals to use Linux.
Well, that's what I got out of it. I get attitude, I give attitude. No, no one owes me anything.
What I get is that the linux community is unprofessional, and unready to be anything more than a footnote in the everyday users life. I start to think that Linux is used in servers where people already know what they are doing from UNIX support, and are just looking for a cheap alternative. Sorry, but Linux isn't ready for prime time, and Microsoft - despite all their faults - remains the professional desktop solution.
Sadly, go to Walmart or Radio Shack. Really. And I haven't dealt with Radio Shack really in a long time because of their high prices.
The one major thing that WalMard does right in my experiance is that if you bring back something with a barcode intact that they can scan to see if they sold it, they give you cash. You can then go get another one new, and pay the cash for it or go somewhere else or whatever. This holds for a year. On anything they sell. This is why I buy stuff there.
The only other thing I can think of is to use a decent credit card with purchase protection.
And this is why Linux isn't a desktop OS. And may never be.
So NewYork state is not the civilized world? Cause I live there, around Ithaca actually, and there is NO broadband - only dial-up. (Well satallite, but $100 a month 2x what I'd be willing to pay). Modems are not a thing of the past, more than half the people I know that are online use modems, cause that's the only way to get online.
Ok, so SuSE is great for new linux users, but you can't install new software... Why?
So SuSe uses RPM, if it's so bad, why do they use it? Isn't YaST supposed to be easy to use? How do you get it to install any random program you see on a website that you want?
So RPM's are bad - what is yum? apt? Can these work on SuSE? How would one use these in YaST? Or do they have something the same? Does this break YaST/SuSe install entirely? Can they import the YaST database or whatever it has that you are supposed to protect? Can it work vice versa? Will yum or apt get the official updates from SuSE to work?
I am just trying to get to use SuSE 9.1 Pro - which I bought, to be more than a linux exhibit. I still can't use it day to day cause I can't install new software. Granted, I've only been using it for 5 days now, but I remember my first Windows box - Win95, and I had new games installed (that I bought at EB) about 10 minutes after turning it on.
So why can't you just download some Linux program and install it? That is what I am looking for. I doubt I'll be able to leave windows till I can just dl the equivelent of an setup.exe and double click it to install - on ANY linux distro. Just like they work (almost all) on ANY windows version, be it 95,98,2k,XP...
Anything more than rpm vs tar (NT vs 9X) is too hard and way too complicated. I (and most people I know) can understand that you need a rpm for SuSe, but don't get why an rpm isn't an rpm whether you are in Mandrake, SuSe, RedHat or whatever.
Will all this work right for SuSE 9.1?
Ok, I'm using SuSE 9.1, and I think Yast Online Update is similar based on your description. How do I find these magic software servers for things beyond core updates? Like if I find some game - Wormux, how do I get YOU(YaST Online Update) to just "make it work" like it does with the Opera upgrades or whatever?
Google is your friend.
Ok, but I have the SUSE HOWTO. I went to the first link, and my distro 9.1 isn't listed. The other links don't look like they talk anything about YaST not showing anything to install. I was already at the nVidia site where my distro was listed.
how you ask questions, is very important.
Well, excuse me for asking a wrongly formatted question. I missed the memo on that one.
Seriously - in the windows camp, I don't think I've ever heard someone ignored for "asking a question wrong". In my example - when windows people come in and ask "Can I ask a Question?" They are at least encouraged to "just ask the question". Not ignored becasue they had the wrong format.
If they come in to a chat room and ask "How do I download?", they are usually asked further questions like "Download what? From where? What have you tried?".
Again, I understand that maybe people get tired of answering the same question all the time. Well, it's a volunteer position! Windows rooms in Yahoo and elsewhere help people out, they don't make fun of them. This attitude makes me even more firm that as much as I hate MS business practices, their community is much better than the Linux one. And their OS is still orders of magnitude easier to use, and this is why I install Linux on backup computers - cause when I want to do stuff with the computer (not do stuff to the computer) I still have to use Windows, cause I don't have to fight with the system, the community or the manual.
I'm not knocking SuSe tech support. RTFP. I am knocking the vaunted "Linux Community". I bought Linux, how many do? What about the people who downloaded the free .iso? I thought that because of all the posts that you don't need company support, that I could get by without it. Also, the system was running - and I didn't think that configuring (note the term) would be covered by installation support. Not to mention, I've never needed to call tech support to install graphics drivers in windows. Why would I expect to need to do so in Linux?
To respond, this is the same thing I got in other forums. That is what I did. After that, there was no options at all. Blank lists of what to install. I tried 7 or more mirrors, with either failing to connect to connect or downloading upgrade info and then displaying "No Upgrades Available".
Maybe instead of kneejerking RTFM, you might RTFP as I detailed this in my post.
Let me just agree with the parent. I am a many year windows user, and have taken courses in college in server linux setup, mail, ftp, etc... but this was in RedHat 7.0. I never really was a Linux guru, and hadn't used it for 2 years so I am rusty at best. I just picked up SUSE 9.1 Pro for $90 this past friday, and have run into this sort of attitude trying to get help from the supposed linux community (as I don't believe SUSE tech support was open late at night or would cover getting nVidia 3d working (BTW - what legalities in distroing it...??? I paid SUSE, can't they license it from nVidia or something?)).
.4 I think(Worms clone found in happypenguin site I think). Any pointers, or step by step for SuSe 9.1 Pro of course appreciated.
Let me just say that they were less than helpful. Forum posts were unanswered, even today (Ok, it's free - but most people don't wait 4+ days for help). Chat rooms were downright rude!
Now, I guess I approached the chat rooms wrong, but I really doubt many people go into a chat room and ask for help until they have exhausted their knowledge of other information sources. I at least try the vendor's site. There I got redirected to a SUSE howto so I didn't try google, I tried to follow those instructions.
Not helped by dial-up, the US servers are atrocious, and the german ones fail at least 30% of the time where I am. This right away leads me to wonder wth? So I keep messing around, and figure out it's just network issues. So I finally get YaST to download "information" about updates - this takes a good hour. What the heck info is THIS??? When it finishes, it says "no updates available"
Now, I know this is wrong, or the HowTO is wrong, cause the HowTo says to select "install nVidia drivers" from a list that I think is supposed to appear here. But - there is no list.
Now, nowhere in the HowTo does it say what to do if there isn't a list or option in YaST. So I join an IRC chatroom #Linux in freenode. I'm ignored completely for about 30 min, I take the hint and try elsewhere.
I try Yahoo linux, solaris, bsd room. Here I impart the above information, am promptly told RTFM, and that I am stupid, and iggyed for being a moron.
Well thank you very much, I think I'll go back to WinXP now where I can at least manage to install nVidia drivers gasp without a manual ! So I give up for a while and do some useful stuff in windows (which works).
Then I decide I am taking the easy way out. Rinse and repeat above.
Ok - third try is the charm, some nice person listens to my problem in yahoo, and tells me that I have to "reload all patches" from the server, and this is not enabled in YaST by default for some reason... and if I don't check this, YaST wasts a long time downloading something, but doesn't actually do anything. Well, I should have guessed! I normally wouldn't reload something unless I had already had some values previously loaded.
I do this, and presto it works! YAY!
Most people I think would have concluded that SuSe is broken, Linux's vaunted community is populated by assholes, and go back to windows not to look back for another 2 years (if ever) and used maybe even ended up with Longhorn.
Ok, this is something that will have to change. Even the yahoo windows rooms aren't this dismissive - far from it in my experiance. There people don't auto ignore you for asking (of all things) "Can I ask a question?" or "How do I download something?". At least these people get some help - they have to act far dumber than I was to get put down and Iggyied.
Maybe MS free supporters expect a much lower IQ, IDK, but they certainly make those looking for help feel more welcome. Linux will never get on the average users machines if they are insulted trying to get the basics to work.
Now, I'm on a quest to try and install something not listed in YaST. Similar results. FYI its Worx
One company that provides massive online backup and storage at reasonable prices is Streamload. You might want to check them out.
HSBC's online banking lets you enter transactions manually if you want. They are confirmed when the transaction clears.
like NTLM authentication).
This must be work related, cause I sure don't use this at home. I don't know if Opera is trying to be a work browser or not - but I hear this alot regarding NTLM, and wish they would add it as it seems like it would really help get new customers. I don't know if the lack of it is : they haven't gotten to it yet, security issue, patent style issue, or they haven't thought of it being important. Cruise on over to the Opera forums, and search for What you want in Opera 8, and leave feedback. At least that way you get heard.
Well, seeing as this is a good learning experiance or whatever, let me attempt to at least point out some percieved losses in Opera, and where they are.
hird-party toolbar features (e.g., next-up-url-path, highlight / find terms in page).
Well, Opera has many of those things built in. Pressing A selects the first link on a page, and each press goes to the next one. Q goes the opposite direction. Press F4 for the panels/hotlist and select links and see a tree list of all the links on the page.
Ctrl-F brings up find next. Pressing / and typing finds as you type. Highlight, normal for Windows... not sure what you want here.
"Opera keeps history (what you mean by back traces I think)". Almost what I meant, the only difference being that each window has it's own history of how I arrived at the current page.
Each page keeps it's history of how you got there.
Yes, but I just don't happen to care for the MDI paradigm.
Then I guess all the fuss about tabbed browsing really doesn't matter to you. Personal preference can't be argued, so I'll say that you can set Opera in Preferences for any combination of MDI, SDI or tabbed browsing you want. I do not know how some of the above works with that though, as I much prefer MDI, and the less resources that seems to take on my machine (I mean system is faster with 10 pages open in one Opera instance than 10 IE instances open on the taskbar).
I don't use webwasher as it costs $$".
My bad, for some reason I was thinking of SpySweeper. I never looked at webwasher as I have proxomitron.
Outpost and ditched ZA-Pro
I ditched ZA also, too slow. I now use Sygate. As Opera often has issues with firewalls changing the HTTP stream, I don't want one that tries to change it. Proxomitron works (for whatever reason) and again I don't want programs doing more than one thing (personal modularity preference). Sygate works well for me, but I have heard good things about using Outpost. I certainly would not use WinXP online without a software firewall.
Yes, but don't want to. I keep separate "ordinary" folders/dirs by subject or project, containing *any* type of pertinent file, be it txt, eml, url, etc.
Yes I just tested, you can drag and drop URL's from Opera to the desktop or wherever. Never tried it before, didn't know it could be done.
OTOH, I didn't need to RTFM for IE, either, in order to figure out how to do these things.
I'll admit, I did have to RTFM just now to figure out some of your questions, however, some - like drag and drop - if you figured it out in IE, you figured it out in Opera. The Hotlist/panels is on by default in Opera, and a links button might clue me into trying it if I wondered how I might see all links in a page or whatever.
The history part, if Opera crashes, it defaults to asking you if you want to start back where you were. I can't see how this wouldd't be an obvious thing - no manual needed here.
The keyboard stuff, sure need a manual - but really - Help - Opera help, second link is keyboard, lists all this.
Finally, my prior post omitted another entire category of right-click thing-ies which work only on an IE page, e.g. (admittedly with possible *individual* exceptions): View Source, Document Tree, Links List, Backward Links, Open Frame In New (unframed) Window, etc.
One problem is I don't know just when you looked at Opera. I am working with 7.51, so if you looked at v5, there will be some differences.
View Source: Right click - frame, view source, or alt - F3.
I believe I already indicated the Links List with the hotlist/panels(you can customize these - there are two main styles - hence my use of both names).
Frames: Again, right click, frames - open in new page, or background page.
Interestingly enough, at least in MDI mode - Opera even (within a session) keeps track of pages you closed, so if you accidently close a page, you can ctrl - z or window, closed pages and get it back, right where it was in the page list and with all history.
Well, you must never have really RTFM with Opera then(probably Firefox either).
1. On Win (which I must still use sometimes), ffox is the slowest of the 3 (especially re-draw), even though I'm always on the latest release.
Well, not having used Firefox, I don't know. But I find it hard to believe anything could be slower than IE in my experiance. 40+ seconds(on dial up true) to load a page that takes 11 seconds in Opera. Pathetic.
2. I can't get the other browsers to do the simplest, stupidest things I can do in IE, e.g.: drag/drop shortcuts between address-bar & folders, or File=>Send=>Shortcut To Desktop, or drag a link from a page to the address-bar (a sure-fire "use the same window, dammit"). I dunno, maybe I just didn't RTFM.
I can't grok why anyone in their right mind would want to do this, but I believe you can just go add to bookmarks that is at the top of the list inside a submenu in the bookmark list. Can't send a shortcut to the desktop... you can copy the address... again, I can't see any real reason to do this. It's pretty easy in Opera to open a link wherever you want, either as a button/click or rightclick option, but you can also drag a link from a page to the address bar.
3. I make genuinely productive use of toolbars (e.g. Google) unavailable on other browsers.
Again, in opera it comes default with a search option box for google, amazon, alltheweb, etc... You can add your own. Opera comes with pop-up blocking. I can't comment on other bars as I don't use them, nor have any idea which others you use but did not mention.
I don't grok the excitement of tabbed windows. I much prefer being able to position pages independently in separate windows. And if one of those windows crashes or hangs, I don't lose the others (or their back-traces).
You are very lucky, every time IE crashed for me, it took all it's windows with it, and the task bar(system tray stuff) - even in XP pro.
Opera has MDI, which is more than tabbed windows, you can arrange as desired inside Opera - much less task bar clutter. Ever tried the Continue from last time? Right back where you were - even after a crash, and keeps history (what you mean by back traces I think).
As for security, I do quite well with the combo of common sense, frequennt AV updates, SpyBot, AdAware, WebWasher, and very aggressive/paranoid firewall settings. (I love Agnitum Outpost, which lets me control cookies, ActiveX, JavaScript, etc. -- each *separately* -- on a per-domain basis.)
Well, I use AV, spybot etc, but since I stopped using Kazaa, and have been using Opera, guess what? I haven't found any spyware with SpyBor or AdAware (I don't use webwasher as it costs $$, and as I'm not getting infected I don't see the point of wasting money). Good firewall settings are a good idea, and I commend you. However I don't have to use my firewall to keep my browser in line just by using Opera. Much easier. Although, I do also recommend Proxomitron. Great ad control.
I've run memtest86, and the new memtest86+ on multiple computers I've built and never had a memory issue show up on it.
This may be because I use Crucial RAM instead of the cheapest on pricewatch, I don't know.
If you are in NY, HSBC both is a great bank with branches in darn near every town, as well as having a site that works with Opera fine. IDK about Mozilla as I don't use it, but I would expect it to be similar.
1. Yes the previous theme was better. But it's _real_ easy to install new themes.
To power users the default theme is irrelevant. Not so to non techies. For both Opera and Mozilla there is a huge battle waged in various forums about what should be the default theme. What buttons should be present. The problem is that the only way to do this would be massive UI testing, something neither Opera as a small company nor Mozilla as a volunteer work have $$ for. And almost no one agrees as to what should be there.
That's what we have in NY state right now, we got ads for different providers, and some were like 1/2 the cost of NYSEG, but they were all variable, so my family was scared of that, and decided to stick with the NYSEG flat rate plan (which now is more like a mutual fund I guess) that is fixed for a year... Even with competition available, most older people won't change from what they know.
Well, the way I've converted people (including newbies) to Opera 7.xx is by showing it to them. They usually like it mainly for the speed, especially the back/forward speed. They also like the lack of spyware, and the pop-up blocking. Many also like the skins, cause they do like to skin damn near everything into unrecognizability.
Wrong. I just did this today to try out Iso Buster, the drive tried to read continously(without success) but windows XP didn't even slow down, much less stop responding. I eventually just opened the drive again, giving up.
Until MCI(who ownes that service, and who I worked for once) decides that was a request to order LD service at 5.95 a month and to be billed to timbuk tu NJ. Then they start calling you asking for Joe Last customer who had your # in 1911, won't tell you why they are calling cause you keep saying Joe doesn't live here. Then they realise their data is wrong, update it but do this just before they send you to collections for the $80 in monthly fees they racked up. Then when you call in with questions about your credit report, they have purged the record of your "account" and refuse to remove the bad credit rating, and only will refer you to the collection agency, who won't forgive the debt either, but will refer you back to MCI.
Best part is 10-10-321 is advirtised as being from TelcomUSA, so why the heck you have bad credit from MCI most people don't know!
I got calls about this at least 4 times a week in one call center out of like 10 of 300-1200 people each. That should tell you how often this happened.