We chase 'em away where I come from. You can't come within 150' of our door with an exposed t-shirt or button expressing your position, much less voicing your opinion. It's the law in California, and I, for one, enforce it. Call the cops next time.
That sounds just like the system in California. The absentee ballots just get sealed up and stored unless the results are close enough for them to matter. Even when we did it by hand we had it all counted and done by midnight or so, certainly by the next morning. I don't like the software being secret, I believe that is just wrong, but I hope that folks pay enough attention to see when the results don't match the word on the street.
My understanding is that the error rate is pretty comparable for all the counting systems. Have you ever tried sorting and counting a thousand hand marked ballots? A hard day's night is what that is, volunteers wanted.
Okay so maybe I'm biased, everyone I've personally worked with seemed pretty dedicated to getting everything right and counting it square. We maybe put a little bit of faith in the goodwill of our fellows too. I've looked at the seals and such on our optical scanners, and could not discern any apparent vulnerabilities, but I don't really have the skill to hot-wire a late model car now either. We do expend a lot of effort in keeping an audit trail, and as I've mentioned, our paper ballots are sealed up and available for a manual count if some question arises. I count it an egregious lack of common sense that secure and open software is not used. We should be able to openly audit the software as well. No one asked me how to set it up. OTOH I'm guessing that simple pin-headed greed is the motivation for any obfuscation and/or complication. Trade secrets. Pffft... I stand by my statement that we don't gratuitously disenfranchise our voters. I've done this in three different counties of California since 1981, and my precincts have never challenged a voter's elegibility or even had a line longer than maybe fifteen minutes at the worst rush. Historically, I haven't heard of voter fraud being a time-honored tradition here like Chicago, or Missippi, or Louisiana,(...) but considering the general levels of corruption I saw in Los Angeles, maybe I'd give them some extra scrutiny.
No great insight AFAIK. Trivially obvious if one pays attention. Apparently that doesn't apply to most. Also people seem to interpret the obvious reality as they are told to as well, hence our invasion of Iraq to retaliate for the crimes of a group of Saudi nationals (Wahabis actually, their gov't won't avow any support.) &c. &c....
I've noticed that liberalism has been redefined to include socialism. Liberals used to be guys like Jefferson and Paine. Bush is more of a conservative socialist, like Hitler.
We have machines that count the paper. If the software was open source, I think the only improvement possible would be worthwhile candidates. That will never happen.
That's what we use, and the paper ballots are stored in sealed boxes in case we feel the need to do a manual recount. Unlike those third-world states listed in TFA
I found TFA to be quite enlightening. As a long time poll worker in the People's Republic of California, I have worked through the transition from paper to machine. And I have sort of been mystified by all the hubbub. Now I understand. We haven't ever had the problems cited. Unless someone has hacked the machines, (?), Everything is kosher here. The only problem we ever have is provisional ballots for out-of-precinct voters, and that is just a little extra work as they have to be hand counted, as long as they are registered in our county the vote counts. All the machines have done besides (possibly) providing a vector for fraud, is make things one hell of a lot easier at the end of the night. We don't have to count the votes by hand, and square up all the totals, which used to be fairly difficult, especially after already working 15 hours straight. Now we get out one hour after the polls close. If there seems to be some problem, we have all of our PAPER BALLOTS sealed up in boxes available for a hand count.
The majority of the people who vote think that they are making a real choice. They believe that Tweedledee or Tweedledum are, in fact, meaningfully different. It's true! They saw it on television.
Yeah, well, imagine my surprise.. I did manage to read Bill's unqualified contribution before it went away, and thought it actually met my needs as far as being informative. Clearly that was not a valid reason to exist in that lofty forum. Anyway, I haven't really explored the politics of wikipedia, but it seemed to me that someone with a personal problem ultimately prevailed in our choice of worthy information. Bill is not a particular friend of mine BTW, but I think that members of the general public could want to know of him, as he is not unknown. It appeared to me that one of his many lifelong enemies is perhaps an editor on wikipedia, otherwise no one would have ever noticed that page. It just sort of fit in with some of the stories I've heard of the problems over there.
OOPS. I meant red state. I once got to talking, about living in California, to a sweet little old lady in a corner store. She suggested that all of our problems could be solved if we just started lining all the hippies up against a wall and shooting them. "After about twenty or thirty or so, maybe they'll start to get the message...". I murmured my concurrence and escaped with my life.
Actually it's twisting the axis that will be challenging. About 100 kph on a motorcycle, try riding with one hand. The wheels act as gyroscopes and the tilt of the bike corresponds very nicely with the curve of the road. (And you push the handle in the opposite direction of the turn you want to initiate!) If you had the flywheel inside of the front (steering) wheel (same axis), maybe that would be a solution.
Long-ass, straight road, in the absolute middle of NOWHERE. No crossroads, virtually no traffic, and probably the city was cooperative in organizing the event. There isn't much going on in town, just the Owl Cafe, the casino, and the cathouse. Probably outweighed the advantages or disadvantages of the altitude.
I spent some time in Battle Mountain in the '70s. While it was pretty scary in a blue state sort of way, and bore a striking resemblance to Bumfuq, it wasn't half the armpit that is Antioch, CA.
I understand why I am marginalized, indeed I am into some pretty obscure shit, but I really felt insulted and dis served when I discovered the "Bill Dakota" page had been deleted. He has a place in history and certainly belongs in Wikipedia. When Deletionpedia gets done being slashdotted, I'm looking forward to a visit.
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We chase 'em away where I come from. You can't come within 150' of our door with an exposed t-shirt or button expressing your position, much less voicing your opinion. It's the law in California, and I, for one, enforce it. Call the cops next time.
That sounds just like the system in California. The absentee ballots just get sealed up and stored unless the results are close enough for them to matter. Even when we did it by hand we had it all counted and done by midnight or so, certainly by the next morning. I don't like the software being secret, I believe that is just wrong, but I hope that folks pay enough attention to see when the results don't match the word on the street.
My understanding is that the error rate is pretty comparable for all the counting systems. Have you ever tried sorting and counting a thousand hand marked ballots? A hard day's night is what that is, volunteers wanted.
Your feeling is probably correct, moreover, 50% failure is enough.
Shoulda been moderated. Bread and circuses, eh? Good points. The last thing I want is a bunch of true believers taking to the streets.
That should restore everyone's faith in the system.
Okay so maybe I'm biased, everyone I've personally worked with seemed pretty dedicated to getting everything right and counting it square. We maybe put a little bit of faith in the goodwill of our fellows too. I've looked at the seals and such on our optical scanners, and could not discern any apparent vulnerabilities, but I don't really have the skill to hot-wire a late model car now either. We do expend a lot of effort in keeping an audit trail, and as I've mentioned, our paper ballots are sealed up and available for a manual count if some question arises. I count it an egregious lack of common sense that secure and open software is not used. We should be able to openly audit the software as well. No one asked me how to set it up. OTOH I'm guessing that simple pin-headed greed is the motivation for any obfuscation and/or complication. Trade secrets. Pffft... I stand by my statement that we don't gratuitously disenfranchise our voters. I've done this in three different counties of California since 1981, and my precincts have never challenged a voter's elegibility or even had a line longer than maybe fifteen minutes at the worst rush. Historically, I haven't heard of voter fraud being a time-honored tradition here like Chicago, or Missippi, or Louisiana,(...) but considering the general levels of corruption I saw in Los Angeles, maybe I'd give them some extra scrutiny.
No great insight AFAIK. Trivially obvious if one pays attention. Apparently that doesn't apply to most. Also people seem to interpret the obvious reality as they are told to as well, hence our invasion of Iraq to retaliate for the crimes of a group of Saudi nationals (Wahabis actually, their gov't won't avow any support.) &c. &c....
Read the parent, Andy.
I've noticed that liberalism has been redefined to include socialism. Liberals used to be guys like Jefferson and Paine. Bush is more of a conservative socialist, like Hitler.
So only wealthy land owners have a say in the election. Hmmm..
Do you listen to Michael Savage?
We have machines that count the paper. If the software was open source, I think the only improvement possible would be worthwhile candidates.
That will never happen.
That's what we use, and the paper ballots are stored in sealed boxes in case we feel the need to do a manual recount.
Unlike those third-world states listed in TFA
I found TFA to be quite enlightening. As a long time poll worker in the People's Republic of California, I have worked through the transition from paper to machine. And I have sort of been mystified by all the hubbub. Now I understand. We haven't ever had the problems cited. Unless someone has hacked the machines, (?), Everything is kosher here. The only problem we ever have is provisional ballots for out-of-precinct voters, and that is just a little extra work as they have to be hand counted, as long as they are registered in our county the vote counts. All the machines have done besides (possibly) providing a vector for fraud, is make things one hell of a lot easier at the end of the night. We don't have to count the votes by hand, and square up all the totals, which used to be fairly difficult, especially after already working 15 hours straight. Now we get out one hour after the polls close. If there seems to be some problem, we have all of our PAPER BALLOTS sealed up in boxes available for a hand count.
The majority of the people who vote think that they are making a real choice. They believe that Tweedledee or Tweedledum are, in fact, meaningfully different. It's true! They saw it on television.
It mattereth not much as the nominating process has been privatized as well.
Yeah, well, imagine my surprise.. I did manage to read Bill's unqualified contribution before it went away, and thought it actually met my needs as far as being informative. Clearly that was not a valid reason to exist in that lofty forum. Anyway, I haven't really explored the politics of wikipedia, but it seemed to me that someone with a personal problem ultimately prevailed in our choice of worthy information. Bill is not a particular friend of mine BTW, but I think that members of the general public could want to know of him, as he is not unknown. It appeared to me that one of his many lifelong enemies is perhaps an editor on wikipedia, otherwise no one would have ever noticed that page. It just sort of fit in with some of the stories I've heard of the problems over there.
OOPS. I meant red state. I once got to talking, about living in California, to a sweet little old lady in a corner store. She suggested that all of our problems could be solved if we just started lining all the hippies up against a wall and shooting them. "After about twenty or thirty or so, maybe they'll start to get the message...". I murmured my concurrence and escaped with my life.
Actually it's twisting the axis that will be challenging. About 100 kph on a motorcycle, try riding with one hand. The wheels act as gyroscopes and the tilt of the bike corresponds very nicely with the curve of the road. (And you push the handle in the opposite direction of the turn you want to initiate!) If you had the flywheel inside of the front (steering) wheel (same axis), maybe that would be a solution.
OOPS thats SR305. sorry.
Long-ass, straight road, in the absolute middle of NOWHERE. No crossroads, virtually no traffic, and probably the city was cooperative in organizing the event. There isn't much going on in town, just the Owl Cafe, the casino, and the cathouse. Probably outweighed the advantages or disadvantages of the altitude.
I spent some time in Battle Mountain in the '70s. While it was pretty scary in a blue state sort of way, and bore a striking resemblance to Bumfuq, it wasn't half the armpit that is Antioch, CA.
I understand why I am marginalized, indeed I am into some pretty obscure shit, but I really felt insulted and dis served when I discovered the "Bill Dakota" page had been deleted. He has a place in history and certainly belongs in Wikipedia. When Deletionpedia gets done being slashdotted, I'm looking forward to a visit.
Yeah, that one page I wanted to look up was just TOO fucking costly, now I understand.
Our tireless defenders are only limited by their algorithms.