Thankfully, their reality distortion field is starting to break down. To further help with this, when Apple basically announces nothing (after such a teaser), please either mock or ignore them.
0) What algorithms do you propose as replacements?
For secret input: SHA2 512 _or_ Whirlpool For public input: SHA2 512 _and_ Whirlpool That should hold water for the next few years. After that, we will talk again.
My main point is that by using hash functions from two different families, you lower the chance of finding collisions. But you may increase the chance of finding the input in case it was unknown.
> Then why don't you use more precise language? Ignore does imply that you are deliberately avoiding its existence.
"Ignore a warning" has a clear and established meaning.
> Actually, you indicated that you stupidly ignore labels. So why would that be a far fetched interpretation?
Actually, I did not such thing. I explained my considerations when acting several times.
> What the hell are you talking about? I've never seen a product with more than a handful of warning labels. Is reading such a chore that it seems like thousands to you?
Figure of speech. And thank you for the implied personal attack, but I am able to read and write on an adult level. Arguably better than most, even some native speakers.
> It's unclear what you meant by the "months grace" it sounded like you were talking about some kind of warranty or return period - i.e that you should be able to return the product within a month, even if you break it due to not reading warnings.
> > > > a) not to buy new gear without a grace period of at least one month
Really?
> It's still not clear what you mean. Assuming that you "would have heard" is just stupid.
Well, I heard of this one within less than a month since Windows Phone 7 came out, didn't I?
> Your actions just don't sound very intelligent, sorry.
> Whether you disregard those labels due to prior experience with a particular product is another matter, but completely ignoring that the label exists is just stupidity.
You are aware that when someone says they "ignored a warning sign" they were at least aware of its existence and quite likely read it? They are _not_ trying to eradicate the fact that the sign exists from their minds. Thus, I don't know if you think you have a point or if you are just trying to "save face" by claiming that's your point.
> I think you might be the kind of person who ignores the "do not look into laser with remaining good eye" warning label.
And I think you might be the kind of person who likes apple juice. Neiter of these claims are based on any facts in our discussion so we should be cool.
> After all, how is this a "label for the ignorant" as you put it? The product in question does exactly what the label says it will do, so the ignorant person would be one who dismisses the label thinking that it would not do as promised.
Yes. And a thousand other labels lie in your face to stop you from playing.
I specified the grace period of a month for a reason. After I can reasonably assume I heard of the really bad pitfalls, I use my property as I see fit. If that means I will potentially break it, that is my privilege.
> I'm not sure who "we" is, but your "learning" obviously isn't very useful, as this article demonstrates that if you did ignore the warning, problems happen. Not such a good idea to ignore it, was it?
Part of my learning was a) not to buy new gear without a grace period of at least one month b) not to buy gear from vendors which are known to pull stunts like this one
> Ignorance is the opposite of knowledge, which is gained by learning. Basically, you have learned to be ignorant. Or ignore learning.
That, or I have learned to ignore warnings for the ignorant. I refuse to follow those and simply apply common sense. And you know what? If I break gear while doing that, I accept that this is the result of my own conscious decision. I won't come crying to anyone demanding they should have done the thinking for me.
On the plus side, it will not break while I actually need it, merely when I play with it. I don't pamper my stuff.
> I had to explain to a friend in high school that if she was never going to check her oil she should just take it in to be changed every 3 months if not sooner rather than going 2 years on the same oil
3 months seems to be extremely excessive unless you are driving thousands of kilometers per week. I am driving ~500-1000 per week and my oil is changed, by the book, every 6 to 9 months, tops.
> I'm surprised that poor car survived
I personally know of a car that run without _any_ oil for at least 50,000 km, probably more like 75,000 km. And that was fast driving, high acceleration, etc. That car went on 6.5 liter per 100 km on average. The record was a tad above 5 liter / 100 km. The max it drank was 7.5 liter / 100 km is abused.
Several mechanics looked over that car, we don't know how it did what it did. But it did.
In case anyone cares, it was an Audi 80.
Also, it was my car. The oil thing was more less a real-life experiment. What I did drove several people mad (pun intended).
The only reason I sold the car was because the anchor points for the suspension were so rusted, it would not have passed the tests by the TÜV. So it went the way of all German cars: To Poland/Turkey/Egypt.
So what you are saying is that because we _can_ open a file we should not care about _how_ we can open it?
And that once the next version of MS Office comes out we will have to wait a bit cause it's, like, new. And those formatting mistakes all over the document that MS carefully engineers into their standards? Don't worry, you can open the file!
> Why not just require user registration for IPs that come from Verizon?
That's what the "ban" would do.
> I love the idea of being able to make anonymous edits, but seriously wouldn't it make their lives easier by just requiring it for everyone?
Anonymous edits are one of the corner-stones of Wikipedia. Just changing that because of a situation that is like a thousand ones before... I don't think so.
> Also, that guy sounded like the kind of guy who's really enthusiastic about maintaining his vehicle, which has got to help longevity - I wonder if those kinds of gearheads could get sufficiently excited about maintaining $old_compact.
Unlikely.
> I simply don't feel the furor common around here, by taking it case-by-case, I end up with a mixture of RIAA and indie.
Actually, you don't take it case-by-case, you just decided to ignore the issue. Which is fine, but if it quacks, name it duck. I happen to think it's better to not support the big labels, if possible, in the foreseeable future.
> Well, he probably figured it's really cool - I wonder if the environmental numbers are even better with a *compact* older car
Given normal circumstances, that will probably be the case.
---Sorry for replying to your sig, but...---
> I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA music. Music is about music, not tangential business/politics.
Music is also about fairness and the music of tomorrow. The RIAA is actively trying to harm both artists & customers for their own benefit. Effecting change happens with your wallet. I used to buy 3-6 CDs per week. I am down to one every month or three. And I buy those directly from artists I want to support.
> Wait a minute - when new cars are bought "prematurely", the old ones don't disappear. Large portion of them is used for many years, by other people...for example across the Oder and Neisse;p (yes, there's also recent "retire perfectly fine older car for subsidized new one! Auto industry needs your help!":/ )
True. But the cars _they_ used to drive... What happens to them? Unless the market is not saturated yet, some cars will be scrapped or left to rot before their time.
> (BTW - I believe we briefly discussed inexpensive Nokia handsets recently. Since it quite likely went unnoticed - I made a very late reply / recommendation there, after finding the subthread in old browser session on one machine)
Scary stalker;) Yes, we did & yes I saw the reply, thanks:)
I am still not 100% sure what to do, but I think I will go for a 1616 after all. It's the cheapest Nokia I can find atm and I only need it for OpenGSM stuff at 27c3 & Fosdem, anyway.
> Actually I said URI, not URL, and I mean standard name-based addressing i.e. a DHT concept. URIs that are stably findable (by DHT-like search processes, or maybe just google search) and are a function of the official name and version identification of a verified piece of content will be of growing importance going forward.
Maybe. I don't think we are there yet, though. I am looking forward to gittorrent and debtorrent though my vision is different from yours.
> The point is, if you can document the best-practices convention, why not just enforce it?
Enforce how? org.debian.vim.2:7.3.035+hg~8fdc12103333-1? No, thanks. I prefer my highly volatile and moving local ecosystem. And over time, more devs will learn how to use Unix clones properly. Matter of fact, my gf just installed a photo-book application which got 99% right by default. If they had put the EULA into the script and not used a space in a sub-directory of/opt, it would have been perfect. As it's statically linked, It Just Works.
If _photo-book_ software devs get this stuff, anyone can.
> That becomes much much more powerful as a tool for taming the complexity of the combinatorics of minor choice differences.
By definition, a simple system can not be as powerful as a complex one. And before you cite ant colonies or anything: If you shift the complexities away from the local system, you are doing just that. Shifting them. They still exist.
> No. A common agreement about where to put code, depending on name, origin, version, and variant, can be used for source code equally as it can be for compiled linkable library objects. Java went partway down this road. Maven includes this concept too, although it allows too much gratuitous variation in where things can be, so it requires horrendously complex dependency files.
LSB _is_ a common agreement about where to put code. It's just one you don't like. But that's OK. I happen to like it, I hope that's OK, too;)
If you are looking at pollution and pollution only, your best option is to drive an old car until it falls apart. Only if you can't drive that car any more does it make sense to create all the indirect emissions of producing a new car. At that point, buying an efficient car is a good plan, of course.
Well, the factory-supplied media centers that are starting to appear in cars are probably faster, too. I think the point, which was missed, is that this is a chip that actively affects the car's driving.
> nmap can be used to help diagnose routing issues (I've actually used it for that)
If you use nmap to diagnose routing, you are doing something wrong. Heard of mtr and looking glasses?
> Wireshark is similarly very useful for debugging. For example, it can quickly help you determine that your software is creating malformed packets, or determine exactly what order your packets are being sent, or exactly what they contain. tcpdump is similar.
As both use libpcap, they would be.
> Even password cracking tools like jack the ripper can be used for purposes other than hacking or pen-testing. One possible such use (despite being a bit questionable) is ensuring minimum password strength, by running it for a fixed amount of time, and rejecting any passwords it can crack in that timeframe.
Or you could simply check the passwords against a dictionary before they are being hashed. Most Unix clones allow that by default.
Pen-testing is a valid use. So is hacking. And so is, arguably, cracking.
But then, Red Hat/Fedora have had a long history of weird decisions. Making KDE rename Kbattleship & Ksnake is a recent example. On the plus side, I don't use them, so I don't care.
Slashdot Mirror
Thankfully, their reality distortion field is starting to break down. To further help with this, when Apple basically announces nothing (after such a teaser), please either mock or ignore them.
Brought to you by the people who like choice.
0) What algorithms do you propose as replacements?
For secret input: SHA2 512 _or_ Whirlpool
For public input: SHA2 512 _and_ Whirlpool
That should hold water for the next few years. After that, we will talk again.
My main point is that by using hash functions from two different families, you lower the chance of finding collisions. But you may increase the chance of finding the input in case it was unknown.
SCSI was _meant_ to be pronounced like "sexy".
> Then why don't you use more precise language? Ignore does imply that you are deliberately avoiding its existence.
"Ignore a warning" has a clear and established meaning.
> Actually, you indicated that you stupidly ignore labels. So why would that be a far fetched interpretation?
Actually, I did not such thing. I explained my considerations when acting several times.
> What the hell are you talking about? I've never seen a product with more than a handful of warning labels. Is reading such a chore that it seems like thousands to you?
Figure of speech. And thank you for the implied personal attack, but I am able to read and write on an adult level. Arguably better than most, even some native speakers.
> It's unclear what you meant by the "months grace" it sounded like you were talking about some kind of warranty or return period - i.e that you should be able to return the product within a month, even if you break it due to not reading warnings.
> > > > a) not to buy new gear without a grace period of at least one month
Really?
> It's still not clear what you mean. Assuming that you "would have heard" is just stupid.
Well, I heard of this one within less than a month since Windows Phone 7 came out, didn't I?
> Your actions just don't sound very intelligent, sorry.
http://xkcd.com/386/ -- I suggest we stop this discussion :)
> Whether you disregard those labels due to prior experience with a particular product is another matter, but completely ignoring that the label exists is just stupidity.
You are aware that when someone says they "ignored a warning sign" they were at least aware of its existence and quite likely read it? They are _not_ trying to eradicate the fact that the sign exists from their minds. Thus, I don't know if you think you have a point or if you are just trying to "save face" by claiming that's your point.
> I think you might be the kind of person who ignores the "do not look into laser with remaining good eye" warning label.
And I think you might be the kind of person who likes apple juice. Neiter of these claims are based on any facts in our discussion so we should be cool.
> After all, how is this a "label for the ignorant" as you put it? The product in question does exactly what the label says it will do, so the ignorant person would be one who dismisses the label thinking that it would not do as promised.
Yes. And a thousand other labels lie in your face to stop you from playing.
I specified the grace period of a month for a reason. After I can reasonably assume I heard of the really bad pitfalls, I use my property as I see fit. If that means I will potentially break it, that is my privilege.
If that rule is "keep it simple and standards-compliant", I can't see where the butthurt is coming from. But then, I use the text mode of /.
> I'm not sure who "we" is, but your "learning" obviously isn't very useful, as this article demonstrates that if you did ignore the warning, problems happen. Not such a good idea to ignore it, was it?
Part of my learning was
a) not to buy new gear without a grace period of at least one month
b) not to buy gear from vendors which are known to pull stunts like this one
> Ignorance is the opposite of knowledge, which is gained by learning. Basically, you have learned to be ignorant. Or ignore learning.
That, or I have learned to ignore warnings for the ignorant. I refuse to follow those and simply apply common sense. And you know what? If I break gear while doing that, I accept that this is the result of my own conscious decision. I won't come crying to anyone demanding they should have done the thinking for me.
On the plus side, it will not break while I actually need it, merely when I play with it. I don't pamper my stuff.
> I had to explain to a friend in high school that if she was never going to check her oil she should just take it in to be changed every 3 months if not sooner rather than going 2 years on the same oil
3 months seems to be extremely excessive unless you are driving thousands of kilometers per week. I am driving ~500-1000 per week and my oil is changed, by the book, every 6 to 9 months, tops.
> I'm surprised that poor car survived
I personally know of a car that run without _any_ oil for at least 50,000 km, probably more like 75,000 km. And that was fast driving, high acceleration, etc. That car went on 6.5 liter per 100 km on average. The record was a tad above 5 liter / 100 km. The max it drank was 7.5 liter / 100 km is abused.
Several mechanics looked over that car, we don't know how it did what it did. But it did.
In case anyone cares, it was an Audi 80.
Also, it was my car. The oil thing was more less a real-life experiment. What I did drove several people mad (pun intended).
The only reason I sold the car was because the anchor points for the suspension were so rusted, it would not have passed the tests by the TÜV. So it went the way of all German cars: To Poland/Turkey/Egypt.
OH YEAH!!!!?!??!111eleven!!1!?/1!?
I for one thank that weird worry-maker RMS for GNU & the GPL. If he had thought like you, I would still be paying for OS licences.
So what you are saying is that because we _can_ open a file we should not care about _how_ we can open it?
And that once the next version of MS Office comes out we will have to wait a bit cause it's, like, new. And those formatting mistakes all over the document that MS carefully engineers into their standards? Don't worry, you can open the file!
> There is a yellow sticker completely covering the SD slot that says it will void your warranty if it is removed.
There are a lot of such stickers and we have come to learned to ignore them.
> I think that's' warning enough that it isn't a general purpose SD card slot.
By definition, a SD card is a general purpose item. If they want non-serviceable parts, solder them.
> It also required an SD card that is certified as Windows Phone 7 complaint. Currently no such cards exist.
There are a lot of such requirements and we have come to learned to ignore them.
> Why not just require user registration for IPs that come from Verizon?
That's what the "ban" would do.
> I love the idea of being able to make anonymous edits, but seriously wouldn't it make their lives easier by just requiring it for everyone?
Anonymous edits are one of the corner-stones of Wikipedia. Just changing that because of a situation that is like a thousand ones before... I don't think so.
GamesNet is in the top five? Interesting, because:
http://irc.netsplit.de/networks/top10.php
http://irc.netsplit.de/networks/details.php?net=OnlineGamesNet&submenu=years
http://irc.netsplit.de/networks/top100.php
> Also, that guy sounded like the kind of guy who's really enthusiastic about maintaining his vehicle, which has got to help longevity - I wonder if those kinds of gearheads could get sufficiently excited about maintaining $old_compact.
Unlikely.
> I simply don't feel the furor common around here, by taking it case-by-case, I end up with a mixture of RIAA and indie.
Actually, you don't take it case-by-case, you just decided to ignore the issue. Which is fine, but if it quacks, name it duck. I happen to think it's better to not support the big labels, if possible, in the foreseeable future.
> Well, he probably figured it's really cool - I wonder if the environmental numbers are even better with a *compact* older car
Given normal circumstances, that will probably be the case.
---Sorry for replying to your sig, but...---
> I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA music. Music is about music, not tangential business/politics.
Music is also about fairness and the music of tomorrow. The RIAA is actively trying to harm both artists & customers for their own benefit. Effecting change happens with your wallet. I used to buy 3-6 CDs per week. I am down to one every month or three. And I buy those directly from artists I want to support.
> Wait a minute - when new cars are bought "prematurely", the old ones don't disappear. Large portion of them is used for many years, by other people...for example across the Oder and Neisse ;p (yes, there's also recent "retire perfectly fine older car for subsidized new one! Auto industry needs your help!" :/ )
True. But the cars _they_ used to drive... What happens to them? Unless the market is not saturated yet, some cars will be scrapped or left to rot before their time.
> (BTW - I believe we briefly discussed inexpensive Nokia handsets recently. Since it quite likely went unnoticed - I made a very late reply / recommendation there, after finding the subthread in old browser session on one machine)
Scary stalker ;) :)
Yes, we did & yes I saw the reply, thanks
I am still not 100% sure what to do, but I think I will go for a 1616 after all. It's the cheapest Nokia I can find atm and I only need it for OpenGSM stuff at 27c3 & Fosdem, anyway.
> Actually I said URI, not URL, and I mean standard name-based addressing i.e. a DHT concept. URIs that are stably findable (by DHT-like search processes, or maybe just google search) and are a function of the official name and version identification of a verified piece of content will be of growing importance going forward.
Maybe. I don't think we are there yet, though. I am looking forward to gittorrent and debtorrent though my vision is different from yours.
> The point is, if you can document the best-practices convention, why not just enforce it?
Enforce how? org.debian.vim.2:7.3.035+hg~8fdc12103333-1? No, thanks. I prefer my highly volatile and moving local ecosystem. And over time, more devs will learn how to use Unix clones properly. Matter of fact, my gf just installed a photo-book application which got 99% right by default. If they had put the EULA into the script and not used a space in a sub-directory of /opt, it would have been perfect. As it's statically linked, It Just Works.
If _photo-book_ software devs get this stuff, anyone can.
> That becomes much much more powerful as a tool for taming the complexity of the combinatorics
of minor choice differences.
By definition, a simple system can not be as powerful as a complex one. And before you cite ant colonies or anything: If you shift the complexities away from the local system, you are doing just that. Shifting them. They still exist.
> No. A common agreement about where to put code, depending on name, origin, version, and variant, can be used for source code equally as it can be for compiled linkable library objects. Java went partway down this road. Maven includes this concept too, although it allows too much gratuitous variation in where things can be, so it requires horrendously complex dependency files.
LSB _is_ a common agreement about where to put code. It's just one you don't like. But that's OK. I happen to like it, I hope that's OK, too ;)
I had assumed that keeping your car in reasonably well shape would have been obvious in any case ;)
Plus, I am from Germany. We have mandatory technical, safety & exhaust checks. So this is even less of an issue for me.
But yah, once you burn more oil than gas, it's time to do something.
If you are looking at pollution and pollution only, your best option is to drive an old car until it falls apart. Only if you can't drive that car any more does it make sense to create all the indirect emissions of producing a new car. At that point, buying an efficient car is a good plan, of course.
> I think you meant renaming KTron to KSnakeDuel.
http://old.nabble.com/RFC:-Rename-KBattleShip-and-KTron-td27280141.html
Well, the factory-supplied media centers that are starting to appear in cars are probably faster, too. I think the point, which was missed, is that this is a chip that actively affects the car's driving.
Well, automobiles have economy of scale. But yes, mil & space are overpriced. News at 11 ;)
> it's not so terribly uncommon to keep a car going for almost 20 years
Or longer. My motorbike is 30 years old now. It's still running perfectly fine.
> nmap can be used to help diagnose routing issues (I've actually used it for that)
If you use nmap to diagnose routing, you are doing something wrong. Heard of mtr and looking glasses?
> Wireshark is similarly very useful for debugging. For example, it can quickly help you determine that your software is creating malformed packets, or determine exactly what order your packets are being sent, or exactly what they contain. tcpdump is similar.
As both use libpcap, they would be.
> Even password cracking tools like jack the ripper can be used for purposes other than hacking or pen-testing. One possible such use (despite being a bit questionable) is ensuring minimum password strength, by running it for a fixed amount of time, and rejecting any passwords it can crack in that timeframe.
Or you could simply check the passwords against a dictionary before they are being hashed. Most Unix clones allow that by default.
Pen-testing is a valid use. So is hacking. And so is, arguably, cracking.
But then, Red Hat/Fedora have had a long history of weird decisions. Making KDE rename Kbattleship & Ksnake is a recent example. On the plus side, I don't use them, so I don't care.