I believe this line from the article pretty much spells it out "so some sort of sharing is inevitable" So they themselves specify that NAT on the network is inevitable. Personally I think it's just an excuse to take another standard service and re-brand it to a premium service.
nope, you are wrong I said '*if* I was a plusnet customer...'
However, it does appear that you are right in that either the quote was taken out of context or I misinterpreted it....
Actually, no tlambert,.I take that back
"The move is controversial as it could make some Internet services fail, but PlusNet says it is inevitable, and only a test at this stage."
Where does plusnet say it's inevitable some services would fail during the test? They don't!
FTA: "ISPs will have to operate a “dual stack” approach, supporting both protocols, but this is made difficult by the shortage of IPv4 addresses, so some sort of sharing is inevitable, PlusNet argued."
I'm not sure it has been a failure as such, I currently have 10 allocated IPv4 IPs. I don't go down the IPv6 route because there is currently no benefit for me to change. That is not to say my hardware does not support it or that I don't see it as being inevitable. If you give me a IPv6 service - then I'll use it and be on my way.
What does REALLY suck - is companies like plusnet trialing IPv6 and then giving up - much easier to retard current infrastructure than build for the future apparently.
there is nothing stopping them keeping the current users on ipv4 and just adding an IPv6 layer... customer wouldn't need to exchange them
However, I had to laugh when you said upgrade the firmware on the router... router manufacturers are kinda like cell phone providers when it comes to software updates.
They would much rather you bought a new product than fix/upgrade an older one
right, so give customers the option to upgrade to something else - I never use a service that bundles a modem anyway. I'm currently using IPv4 as it's one of the 10 IPs my ISP assigned when I joined them.. I'm in no hurry to go the IPv6 route but it would not be a big issue to reassign another set of IPs and I would just migrate over. The netgear I bought in 2002 supported IPv6 (which I subsequently bricked with custom firmware *cough*) and yes it was a premium router at the time but if they are selling IPv4 only consumer routers then THAT is the problem.
Give us the option to migrate and when someone signs up by default put them on IPv6 and slowly phase out IPv4. Slowly do the same for customers renewing their contract and send tickles to the remainder with the benefits/reasoning of IPv6.
Not rocket science really - build out your fucking IPv6 network before start butchering the current one! I realise I'm in the minority because I'm fully aware/care about the issue however that does not mean they have to relegate their current system first.
why in the world is it inevitable? Inevitable because they want to keep holding off on newer technology? If I was with Plusnet I'd use this as a good reason to start looking elsewhere.
yes, but by what you have said - it suggests Win 8 was never intended for the current enterprise upgrade cycle? I'd like to hope so anyway for Microsofts sake if nothing else.
Right so first point proven - right now it makes no sense on your laptop. 2nd point... how many 'general use' customers feel they need a laptop over a tablet? how many of those will buy a Windows tablet? 3rd point - how many companies will upgrade to win 8 this year?
Other than the 2nd issue, the first and last are resolved with a working start menu!
Really? even with glass? I never thought of it that way even though I guess phones and tablets are all hardened but the only screens I've seen wear out are the ones with the squishy stuff underneath (and yes I realise that's possibly one of the worst 'technical definitions' ever.
I just think that being so destructive with the GUI is pretty much Microsoft throwing their userbase under the bus in a sacrifice to catch up with apple - which - if at all appears to be VERY slow. With this much change to the setup, companies especially will consider whither remain with Win 7 at the best or switch to another OS entirely - because they know they will have to train it out to all the desktop users.
I can't wait until every screen is a touchscreen - regardless of what it's on. But encouraging people to use it by force (simply to try and simulate their phone OS or vice versa) is suicide!
and they are all pretty clunky when you get past the initial view. I'm probably one of the few that goes into the start menus and enables context menus to speed things up I guess.
You bring up some good points, however I don't think even the stardock alternative brings back the fluid feel of Windows (never thought I'd have those words in the same sentence!) The addons just feel clunky and if I do a fresh install I lose my desktop???
Maybe I just don't want to support a company that actively disables things to force customers to use something else? I'm half holding out that they will relent for SP1.
Well I'm writting this now on Win 7 - even though, I admittedly use Windows mostly for games these days. I just cant bare to move to Win 8:-/ and I believe by the time it's a viable solution (another year maybe?) something else will have came along.
I run a mixed house of unixes, I expect my screens to get bigger in the future - not smaller. I might not be your average joe that's quite happy with a *tablet*, but I'll certainly NEVER get out my seat to touch my 30"+ screen
I believe Microsoft have screwed this generation of desktop PCs and I don't have the confidence that they think everyone will throw away their computers and jump to mobile. Especially when those that are truly 'mobile' are not buying MS products.
For the next 8 months at least Microsoft will have a mix of XP tablet OS / Vista lashback that they may never recover from.
I would say the definition of 'freedom' was relative to your mental disposition at the time.
In a totalitarian dictatorship you are not free from the need to make decisions - you are forbidden. There is a big difference, society forbids suicide and maybe society should have seen the signs that this might happen. But as much as society is free from blame for doing nothing to prevent this person taking his life. Aaron had the right to take his own.
At least he is now free from society, although in a better frame of mind he might regret it.
Wait, sorry I'm trying work out the relevance of your comment.
You have a tablet from over 5 years ago that runs Windows. Microsoft have been trying to shoehorn their own OS onto a tablet since 2000 and failed spectacularly. Your tablet is definitely not good enough, that's right - which is why it took 10 years for them to take off and not with Windows on them!
What was my wish?
Enter the ipad and smart phones in general. Your average shmoe can view porn, get pics from their kiddies and surf the interwebs easily without the need for a laptop or desktop with Windows on it.
Are you being humorous? sarcastic?... I am actually puzzled.
So by the information you have given, then over the next few years we should expect more people to upgrade.
I admit, I prefer using OSX *shrugs* but my main rig is Windows 7 just as an FYI. With OSX, it has become so easy to upgrade and do an in place install from the app store (creating a backup of that download is another story but I'm trying not to digress) Until that changes with Windows and you just click, purchase and press the great big 'upgrade' button. Then those that are remotely interested. enthusiastic, security conscious and willing to research will only reluctantly upgrade Windows.
The thing is and my real point in this thread is that the majority, my friends parents - my colleagues parents; people we sometimes forget exist because they can barely string two sentences together on facebook - do not care.
They just want to put their kids on facebook to impress their other computer illiterate friends. They want to search 'porn' on google and not download reallykinkyvideo.exe They want to appear fashionable They want to make work life easier They want to do all this cheap shopping they hear so much about (the list goes on and on)
These people DO NOT CARE what version of windows and even to some extent that they are even using Windows. I mean they notice when their friends can do something but they can't because they are not using Windows and they notice what's fashionable and what's not (Apple being trendy and fashionable right now)
I have nothing against these people, by comparison they are probably IRL social divas compared to most of us. But anyway, these are the people that only get a new version of Windows when they get a new computer and they probably get a new computer every 5 - 8 years or when it becomes completely infested and virus ridden.
The public got the jist that Vista smelled bad because the geeks in the workplace told them so when asked (funny how they talk to you when they need you?) I believe the public is starting to get the same jist from Windows 8 - regardless of its merits or flaws. The geeks have also become more fragmented on the question of 'do I really need windows?'
Unless something dramatically changes in the next 6 months (a huge flurry of touch enabled devices, phone, tablet or ) Windows 8 will get the same reputation as Vista. Maybe Windows 9 will have this upgrade dream that we speak of (from the metro store of course) but is that going to be enough for Microsoft? Of course people will say that the demise of Windows is greatly exaggerated - but when the majority of new customers are saying 'well a tablet is enough power for all I need a computer for' where does that leave Microsoft? They *NEED* to shoehorn into this market somehow because in 5-10 years they will be irrelevant outside of xbox in the general computing space. Yes, they will still have enterprise but they are only just starting to roll out Windows 7!
From what I've written above, I and hopefully those that read this - can appreciate why Microsoft feel they need to be aggressive in this space but all I ask is for my old desktop, start menu, visual themes and file management back. I am a power user and I intend on my displays getting bigger over the years not smaller - I'm not planning on getting out my seat to touch my screen are you?
I was very sad when BeOS died, I loved the promise of that OS. It didn't die out because it was crap, it died out because the general public conscientious was 'it's not Windows' Regardless of the many things BeOS could do - 'it's not Windows' and you could not guarantee software or documents would open. The same stink came off of OSX up until a few years ago. The Iphone/Ipad changed that and with that change consumers have stopped chanting the old mantra.
a few bullets - not worth commenting Linux - PVR, sat nav and everything else that doesn't need installed Linux will likely never get a year of the computer desktop (android counts in 'all I need is a tablet') Games ? Most gamers
Slashdot Mirror
I believe this line from the article pretty much spells it out "so some sort of sharing is inevitable" So they themselves specify that NAT on the network is inevitable. Personally I think it's just an excuse to take another standard service and re-brand it to a premium service.
Either way - bad news!
nope, you are wrong I said '*if* I was a plusnet customer ...'
However, it does appear that you are right in that either the quote was taken out of context or I misinterpreted it....
Actually, no tlambert, .I take that back
"The move is controversial as it could make some Internet services fail, but PlusNet says it is inevitable, and only a test at this stage."
Where does plusnet say it's inevitable some services would fail during the test? They don't!
FTA:
"ISPs will have to operate a “dual stack” approach, supporting both protocols, but this is made difficult by the shortage of IPv4 addresses, so some sort of sharing is inevitable, PlusNet argued."
they should be spending money investing in IPv6 and not IPv4 - period.
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,106125.0.html
Not their customers fault they didn't start this quick enough.
I'm not sure it has been a failure as such, I currently have 10 allocated IPv4 IPs. I don't go down the IPv6 route because there is currently no benefit for me to change. That is not to say my hardware does not support it or that I don't see it as being inevitable. If you give me a IPv6 service - then I'll use it and be on my way.
What does REALLY suck - is companies like plusnet trialing IPv6 and then giving up - much easier to retard current infrastructure than build for the future apparently.
there is nothing stopping them keeping the current users on ipv4 and just adding an IPv6 layer... customer wouldn't need to exchange them
However, I had to laugh when you said upgrade the firmware on the router ... router manufacturers are kinda like cell phone providers when it comes to software updates.
They would much rather you bought a new product than fix/upgrade an older one
right, so give customers the option to upgrade to something else - I never use a service that bundles a modem anyway. I'm currently using IPv4 as it's one of the 10 IPs my ISP assigned when I joined them.. I'm in no hurry to go the IPv6 route but it would not be a big issue to reassign another set of IPs and I would just migrate over. The netgear I bought in 2002 supported IPv6 (which I subsequently bricked with custom firmware *cough*) and yes it was a premium router at the time but if they are selling IPv4 only consumer routers then THAT is the problem.
Give us the option to migrate and when someone signs up by default put them on IPv6 and slowly phase out IPv4. Slowly do the same for customers renewing their contract and send tickles to the remainder with the benefits/reasoning of IPv6.
Not rocket science really - build out your fucking IPv6 network before start butchering the current one! I realise I'm in the minority because I'm fully aware/care about the issue however that does not mean they have to relegate their current system first.
why in the world is it inevitable? Inevitable because they want to keep holding off on newer technology? If I was with Plusnet I'd use this as a good reason to start looking elsewhere.
I'll need to look into it more - however I admit I'm a sucker for eye candy / aero
yes, but by what you have said - it suggests Win 8 was never intended for the current enterprise upgrade cycle? I'd like to hope so anyway for Microsofts sake if nothing else.
Right so first point proven - right now it makes no sense on your laptop. ... how many 'general use' customers feel they need a laptop over a tablet? how many of those will buy a Windows tablet?
2nd point
3rd point - how many companies will upgrade to win 8 this year?
Other than the 2nd issue, the first and last are resolved with a working start menu!
but I would feel incandescent without my start menu :P
well played sir.
Really? even with glass? I never thought of it that way even though I guess phones and tablets are all hardened but the only screens I've seen wear out are the ones with the squishy stuff underneath (and yes I realise that's possibly one of the worst 'technical definitions' ever.
I just think that being so destructive with the GUI is pretty much Microsoft throwing their userbase under the bus in a sacrifice to catch up with apple - which - if at all appears to be VERY slow. With this much change to the setup, companies especially will consider whither remain with Win 7 at the best or switch to another OS entirely - because they know they will have to train it out to all the desktop users.
I can't wait until every screen is a touchscreen - regardless of what it's on. But encouraging people to use it by force (simply to try and simulate their phone OS or vice versa) is suicide!
and they are all pretty clunky when you get past the initial view. I'm probably one of the few that goes into the start menus and enables context menus to speed things up I guess.
You bring up some good points, however I don't think even the stardock alternative brings back the fluid feel of Windows (never thought I'd have those words in the same sentence!) The addons just feel clunky and if I do a fresh install I lose my desktop???
Maybe I just don't want to support a company that actively disables things to force customers to use something else? I'm half holding out that they will relent for SP1.
Well I'm writting this now on Win 7 - even though, I admittedly use Windows mostly for games these days. I just cant bare to move to Win 8 :-/ and I believe by the time it's a viable solution (another year maybe?) something else will have came along.
I run a mixed house of unixes, I expect my screens to get bigger in the future - not smaller. I might not be your average joe that's quite happy with a *tablet*, but I'll certainly NEVER get out my seat to touch my 30"+ screen
I believe Microsoft have screwed this generation of desktop PCs and I don't have the confidence that they think everyone will throw away their computers and jump to mobile. Especially when those that are truly 'mobile' are not buying MS products.
For the next 8 months at least Microsoft will have a mix of XP tablet OS / Vista lashback that they may never recover from.
Oh I'm sorry - did they mean it will come with an option for XP tablet edition or Win 8?
If not then my comment is perfectly valid. Cant have the hardware without the OS to support it.
removing the start menu was an 'option'?
Not heard that before - I wish Metro was an option, which unfortunately in its current state - it's not.
I would say the definition of 'freedom' was relative to your mental disposition at the time.
In a totalitarian dictatorship you are not free from the need to make decisions - you are forbidden. There is a big difference, society forbids suicide and maybe society should have seen the signs that this might happen. But as much as society is free from blame for doing nothing to prevent this person taking his life. Aaron had the right to take his own.
At least he is now free from society, although in a better frame of mind he might regret it.
freedom from life - depending on your thoughts, beliefs and opinions at the time.
Wait, sorry I'm trying work out the relevance of your comment.
You have a tablet from over 5 years ago that runs Windows. Microsoft have been trying to shoehorn their own OS onto a tablet since 2000 and failed spectacularly.
Your tablet is definitely not good enough, that's right - which is why it took 10 years for them to take off and not with Windows on them!
What was my wish?
Enter the ipad and smart phones in general. Your average shmoe can view porn, get pics from their kiddies and surf the interwebs easily without the need for a laptop or desktop with Windows on it.
Are you being humorous? sarcastic? ... I am actually puzzled.
thanks.
your average joe didn't think a tablet would be 'good' enough 10 - 15 years ago...
shame all those tablets don't run Windows
THAT is the difference.
"Leetspeak, an alternative alphabet popular in some forum circles, cannot be translated."
*sigh* does this mean I must resent people that use this form of communication less?
I'm not so sure I can stoop so low.
well they never wiped out the Scots.... they built hadrian's wall to keep us in ... shame we married into the UK in the end :-/
So by the information you have given, then over the next few years we should expect more people to upgrade.
I admit, I prefer using OSX *shrugs* but my main rig is Windows 7 just as an FYI. With OSX, it has become so easy to upgrade and do an in place install from the app store (creating a backup of that download is another story but I'm trying not to digress) Until that changes with Windows and you just click, purchase and press the great big 'upgrade' button. Then those that are remotely interested. enthusiastic, security conscious and willing to research will only reluctantly upgrade Windows.
The thing is and my real point in this thread is that the majority, my friends parents - my colleagues parents; people we sometimes forget exist because they can barely string two sentences together on facebook - do not care.
They just want to put their kids on facebook to impress their other computer illiterate friends.
They want to search 'porn' on google and not download reallykinkyvideo.exe
They want to appear fashionable
They want to make work life easier
They want to do all this cheap shopping they hear so much about
(the list goes on and on)
These people DO NOT CARE what version of windows and even to some extent that they are even using Windows. I mean they notice when their friends can do something but they can't because they are not using Windows and they notice what's fashionable and what's not (Apple being trendy and fashionable right now)
I have nothing against these people, by comparison they are probably IRL social divas compared to most of us. But anyway, these are the people that only get a new version of Windows when they get a new computer and they probably get a new computer every 5 - 8 years or when it becomes completely infested and virus ridden.
The public got the jist that Vista smelled bad because the geeks in the workplace told them so when asked (funny how they talk to you when they need you?)
I believe the public is starting to get the same jist from Windows 8 - regardless of its merits or flaws. The geeks have also become more fragmented on the question of 'do I really need windows?'
Unless something dramatically changes in the next 6 months (a huge flurry of touch enabled devices, phone, tablet or ) Windows 8 will get the same reputation as Vista. Maybe Windows 9 will have this upgrade dream that we speak of (from the metro store of course) but is that going to be enough for Microsoft? Of course people will say that the demise of Windows is greatly exaggerated - but when the majority of new customers are saying 'well a tablet is enough power for all I need a computer for' where does that leave Microsoft? They *NEED* to shoehorn into this market somehow because in 5-10 years they will be irrelevant outside of xbox in the general computing space. Yes, they will still have enterprise but they are only just starting to roll out Windows 7!
From what I've written above, I and hopefully those that read this - can appreciate why Microsoft feel they need to be aggressive in this space but all I ask is for my old desktop, start menu, visual themes and file management back. I am a power user and I intend on my displays getting bigger over the years not smaller - I'm not planning on getting out my seat to touch my screen are you?
I was very sad when BeOS died, I loved the promise of that OS. It didn't die out because it was crap, it died out because the general public conscientious was 'it's not Windows' Regardless of the many things BeOS could do - 'it's not Windows' and you could not guarantee software or documents would open. The same stink came off of OSX up until a few years ago. The Iphone/Ipad changed that and with that change consumers have stopped chanting the old mantra.
a few bullets - not worth commenting
Linux - PVR, sat nav and everything else that doesn't need installed Linux will likely never get a year of the computer desktop (android counts in 'all I need is a tablet')
Games ? Most gamers