It interests me that everyone here speaks of the US Military the same way they speak of corporations - as one giant hive mind with no dissent within the ranks. News flash: the military, like a corporation, is comprised of people who don't all think the same. In the event of the military being directed to take arms against civilians - of the same country no less - it is quite likely there will be increased instances of mutiny. The results would be... cataclysmic.
Exactly. See my post above. A significant fraction of US NG/military will break ranks and join the civilians, bringing along their military weapons, training/experience, organizational structure, and other assets. A full-out conflict in such a scenario would be, as you say, cataclysmic. Likely cataclysmic for the entire world as well.
I've spoken to a couple marine types after they've seen real action.. scary shit. They have little-to-no qualms attacking civilians if they are ordered to; for some the distinction between our civilians/or/ others' civilians doesn't even exist.
I grew up on military bases. I know a lot of military personnel, even up to a couple of full-bird colonels and two generals. We've actually had this discussion. I've yet to find any that would fire on US citizens, unless they were like radical Islamic types or similar.
If it came down to the government ordering the US military to "occupy" US cities and towns, round people up into camps, and basically carry out a "government takeover" and provide armed pacification and suppression against civilians, they would refuse, arrest the ones issuing the orders, and even launch an assault on government-loyalist positions if need be if things were that bad.
Google "Oath Keepers". There are many more that feel the same way but are reluctant to expose their beliefs, positions in the power structure, and/or telegraph any possible actions they might need to take in a desperate situation. Be assured a sizable chunk of the US NG and military will throw their lot (and their lives and military assets) in with the civilians in the event of such a takeover attempt.
What the real worry is for me are the treaties and agreements (both open and secret) with other countries that could provide for bringing in foreign troops for civilian pacification and rebellion suppression.
Still, the US government and any forces they employ will face the same threat that prevented both Germany and Japan from seriously considering invasion/occupation. A rifle behind every blade of grass, and knowing the kind of hardware hackers, etc, we have here in the US these days, new and ingenious IEDs lining every freeway, side-road, sidewalk, and footpath, and death waiting behind every window and door, plus our own home-brew drones. That's not even counting the military weapons and other assets that will surely be "liberated".
Unless they are willing to simply kill off ~70%-80% of the US population right from the start with WMDs, an occupation of the US would make Vietnam, Afghanistan, or any of the bloodiest campaigns of WW1 or WW2 look like a stroll in the park. Can you imagine? Former cops, gang-bangers, and mixed military all forming into ad-hoc combat units and working together against a common threat. Not the way I'd choose to unite the country, but revolution and upheaval does make for strange bedfellows when the feces strikes the rotary air circulation device.
I most fervently hope and pray that violence can be avoided. It would be such a waste of life and potential, and an unspeakable tragedy for so many. Sadly, sometimes those who lust for power and control make avoiding it impossible.
I happen to own a surf-green strat, so I paid a lot of attention to your post and you are right. Don't bring out the guns. Yet. But something has to be done and the only force (and this is not the USA alone) are the people... It's revolution time as far as I'm concerned.
o/t - Nice. Actually, any strat I pick up becomes a "blue" strat;) My strat is actually finished in a cherry/gold-burst. But it's a blue strat all the same. Same with the vacuum tube amp I built.
Back on-topic, you're point about it being all people, not just Americans, is spot-on. There is an international freedom movement growing. Did you know there are Italian "TEA Parties", as well as Serbian, Georgian, British, and about 15 other national TEA Party movements? There are reported to be 20 of them meeting this weekend in Dallas, TX.
People across the globe are hungry for freedom, and their governments have been starving them for too long. And once again, they look to Americans as examples of how to become free.
Failure is not an option. Fortunately, all we really have to do for victory is to remember, and never again forget, who we are as a people, why our Constitution was written the way it was, and what we stand for. Our failure to remember is what has brought us to this point. It is what must first change before anything else will.
An idea, a dream of freedom and liberty, is far more powerful than any weapons in any government armories or airbases ever could be.
[The government] should be brought to justice... This is insane and a clear message from the government to everyone: You have NO rights at all! Time to fight terrorism people and it starts at home.
Agreed.
But, don't be in any hurry to violence. Use the four boxes in defense of liberty in the order established. At this point, Ghandi achieves more than Patrick Henry. Don't provide a convenient excuse for the government to declare martial law and roll out the Nat. Guard.
But if we are finally forced to the last box, don't forget ol' Pat.
As for myself, I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees, but at the same time I'll not sacrifice myself prematurely in a stupid act of individual violence that achieves little or nothing.
Almost all large American cities (you know, the places that tend to have the largest police forces) have "Liberal/Progressives" in power. Of the ten biggest cities in the US, only New York and San Diego have non-Democratic mayors. Quite simply, police brutality is a function of a city's size more than its politics. Thanks for trying to make a partisan issue out of it, though.
Please show me where in my post I mentioned Democrats or Republicans?
It's Liberal/Progressives in both parties.
And it isn't just the large cities, either. Wherever the Lib/Progs hold power, the government including the police abuse their power and engage in corruption.
You can take cities of comparable populations/police forces (or add together cities where Lib/Progs are not in charge to balance the pop./cop numbers) where one is run by Lib/Progs and the other by more conservative/libertarian types, and my point still stands.
Liberal/Progressives get elected repeatedly in large cities because that's where Lib/Prog tactics and methods..."machine politics", community organizers/organizations, unions, and special-interest groups...are most effective...among a large and concentrated population that is under-educated, ill-informed, poor, un- and under-employed, and already angry and desperate because of those things. This makes them easily-exploited by Liberal/Progressive rabble-rousers and race-pimps.
Darn it it looks like Lex Luthor had gotten control of the police department again.
I know I'll get modded down for this, but...
No, it's worse than Lex Luthor. Much worse.
It's the Liberal/Progressives.
They actually exist here in not-a-movie-land, unlike the fictional Luthor. Just Google for police brutality incidents and see where the vast majority of these incidents occur: In cities/towns/counties where Liberal/Progressives hold power.
And by now it probably won't surprise you that I'm libertarian and that the Austrian school economists are the ones that I... well, disregard the least, I suppose. That's why I think the problem of unnatural monopolies in a free market aren't a huge problem, since there's no regulatory barrier for new competitors to undercut the conspirators. Even when a cartel is too big to have to worry about new entrants, like OPEC, they're not that great at staying banded together.
Nice to see someone else around here who has actually taken the time & trouble to learn some history and macro-economics, and that has done some research, then employed some critical-thinking skills on what you found.
The point you made in your previous post regarding corporatism needing a large, powerful government can't be stressed enough.
I've met so many people who are angry at US corporatism and yet advocate for more government bureaucracy and regulation, when those are the exact tools the corporatists need and use to exercise their power.
This constant government expansion has been the general solution used for at least the last 5-6 decades or more. We can simply look around us and read the news to answer how well *that's* worked out for us.
It is inevitable this will happen, what is sad is that some people cannot accept this must happen at it's own pace and there is just so much you can do to hasten the arrival of alternative energy.
Stane: "William, here is the technology. I've asked you to simply make it smaller."
William: "Okay, sir, and that's what we're trying to do, but honestly, it's impossible."
Stane: "Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave! With a box of scraps!"
Given that I don't watch/listen/follow any media organization, your assertion that they convinced me of anything is false. Like the Occupy movement, I made my judgments based on looking into the actual organizations themselves.
It's real nice and all that you "looked into" the TEA Parties (not TEA Party, singular...there is no single TEA Party). I'm a member of a TEA Party and thus get the emails, go to meetings/events, etc. These are the same people and same local leaders (with some natural turnover, of course) as when it came together, plus all the members that have joined since (that have not changed the direction or focus of TEA Party groups in any major way) and are still joining daily. There are no national leaders, only local. If any "co-opting" is going on, it's the TEA Parties co-opting the Republican party, thus the mainstream, old-guard Republican leadership's resentment of the TEA Parties.
What you describe has simply not happened. It is the opposite of a fact. If something like you've described has happened, they must have swapped people out with alien pod-clones, because I'm still talking to all the same people and about the same general agendas.
You keep insisting also in talking about the TEA Parties as a single entity. They consist of myriads of small (some as small as 5-10 members) to large groups of many hundreds or even thousands of members, each completely independent.
What may scare you even more is that the TEA Parties are going international. There are groups in more than a dozen nations now, and the list and the numbers are growing. It's becoming a world-wide grassroots movement. They are not about a single US political party.
You've either bought the propaganda hook, line, and sinker, or you're part of the propaganda-spreading machine. Nothing like what you describe has happened to any of the many groups across many states that I've had personal contact with.
If you've got a problem with your local TEA Party's agenda, stop whining on/. and start your own. If people like your ideas better, they'll join with your group instead.
Now, the Tea Party really has devolved into nothing more than an ultra-right wing movement, and the original organizers now have nothing more to do with it. All this happened in something like a month, which shows the terrifying efficiency of the entire media system in the US at swaying public opinion.
No.
It only took a month for the media to convince you that this was the case.
The TEA Party is not any single entity. Anyone calling themselves some kind of official national head(s) of the TEA Party are not. The TEA Party movement (it is a grassroots movement, not a political party as such) consists of thousands and thousands of small local groups that are self-funding through member donations, fund-raising events like bake sales, etc. They each determine their own political priorities and agendas. They don't always agree on every issue nor on favorite candidates.
Mainstream Republicans (Progressive Republicans) have tried to co-opt the TEA Parties, but have failed at every turn to make any significant inroads. The TEA Party movement is too decentralized for that kind of takeover.
They instead switched to convincing everyone, with the help of the media, that they had succeeded in co-opting the TEA Parties when they have done no such thing. They're scared of the TEA Parties, and for good reason. There are going to be a lot of mainstream career Republicans that will be voted out this election.
You know nothing about neoconservatives, do you? For starters, most of the shining lights of that bunch were "dyed in the wool Progressives" in their earlier days. The 'neo' brand of conservatism has almost nothing to do with conservatism.
What you're describing seems to define Republican Progressives. There are Progressives in both major parties. Every several decades, Progressives re-emerge after the general public has forgotten about them and their failures, and have to be exposed and defeated all over again. Last time was roughly about a century ago, so I guess we're overdue for another round of Progressive Statism/Collectivism and another battle to defeat, expose, and discredit Progressivism, once again, as a repeatedly-failed ideology. The popular definition of insanity comes to mind.
Don't forget Wilson...inventing the seeds of what would become neoconservative foreign policy.
"Neoconservative" foreign policy? Wilson was a dyed-in-the-wool Progressive Democrat. Don't forget that most of the wars/military actions the US has been involved in were started/declared by Democrat administrations.
I would have said Woodrow Wilson, who introduced racial segregation to government...
He kept non-whites (and women) out of government positions he controlled and encouraged the same for other positions, but he hardly introduced it!
If it wasn't the practice previous to his actions and became practice after his deliberate actions to achieve precisely those goals, I'd say what you're arguing is a matter of semantics and does nothing to add to the discussion.
The destruction of US freedom started with Theodore Roosevelt,...
I would have said Woodrow Wilson, who introduced racial segregation to government and was the first president to put US-born citizens into concentration camps.
the total destruction of US dollar happened with Nixon,...
As far as strictly monetary policy goes, I agree, with the possible exception of Teddy Roosevelt's creation of the Federal Reserve. The non-monetary-policy causes of economic trouble started with the Progressive policies and government growth under Woodrow Wilson and the wealth redistribution schemes of FDR. One of the most disastrous occurrences was the loss of State rights sacrificed in the effort to abolish slavery. This set the stage for much of the Federal high-handedness due to the concentration of power in Washington D.C. we see today.
I'm sure the family's of the victims of the most recent Colarado shooting, who are currently having to solicit donations to pay for the healthcare of wounded family members are just so glad America has left it all to the private sector.
If they can get the word out about their needs, they stand a very good chance of receiving enough in donations to not only pay their medical expenses, but also pay off their mortgage and retire comfortably.
You can say a lot of things about American citizens, but one thing nobody can deny is their generosity, regardless of political party, especially towards those in dire/tragic straights. This was such a horrific national tragedy that I'm sure victims & families would be flooded with donations and offers of help if they asked publicly, explaining their needs/circumstances.
Look at all the news reports there were of individual private volunteers that just stood up without any orders or programs or government funding and took it upon themselves and used their own money and resources in New Orleans after Katrina, and the flood of donations that came in from individuals.
You really should have picked something better to make your point with. I can't imagine in circumstances like those in CO that those victims won't receive anything they need from ~300 million Americans that will make certain they receive any care or help whatsoever they may need and then some. I'm very proud to say that in my 5+ decades on this rock, that's one positive thing about the American people that has not changed for the worse, and if anything, has gotten even better.
One of the main reasons for installing smart gas meters is to not have to deal with customers like you. The meters are accurate and can be read from a distance. Meter readers who used to read 200 to 300 meters a day can now read 3000 a day, and they don't have to deal with your fences, holly bushes, mean dogs, and bad attitude.
Doesn't help me on my job because I have to physically walk over your service line and be able to touch the meter. I check for leaks, and if I can't do my job because of the bloody obstacle course you've made your yard into, then I just write it down as uncheckable and you're on your own.
Nobody is out to cheat you. The gas company gets cheated way more often than the customer does.
The problem I have with smart meters for gas & electricity isn't a worry about the utility company somehow "cheating" me.
It's a number of things.
First, it allows real-time rationing on an individual level, allowing for all kinds of possible discrimination and other shenanigans. For instance, you get identified at a protest against your utility company, a politician your utility company supports, or some piece of legislation, and then suddenly, and completely coincidentally of course, all sorts of bad things happen to your service and your billing.
Second, it also provides a pool of very granular and detailed data that I don't particularly care to to have in the hands of either the utility or the government/LEAs, especially without strict rules that we as citizens and consumers get to vote on. How about a spouse using the data in a divorce to prove another person was there? Or a LEA using that blip in usage when you pulled out that old broken toaster-oven/microwave/etc to try to fix it as evidence of criminal activity.
Third, it's another set of data points that allow a more thorough profiling of individual habits, schedules, and activities. It's data that's also sure to be stolen/hacked at some point, either directly from the meters or from the utility database. Hack the smart meter of somebody you don't like and get them raided by a paramilitary SWAT team looking for a grow operation, maybe even getting them or their family members killed.
Sorry that your job is difficult. However, I'm not about to allow myself to be put into the above scenarios just to make your job easier. Get another job if it's that bad.
Actually, once I took about 2000 euro's from an ATM at 4 o'clock in the morning to pay for my USA Fender that would arrive the next day. At that time, that was about 10 million US dollars! Give or take a few cents.
Although I admire your taste in instruments (see my username), I would have recommended a G&L, which is what I play these days rather than a Fender.
G&L is actually more true "Fender" than Fender. G&L is George Fullerton and Leo Fender, the original founders of Fender Musical Instruments. Fender was bought out by CBS in 1968, although I'm not sure/haven't checked to see who owns Fender these days. Once the non-compete clause from the sale contract expired, they got up to their old musical tricks again.
I own a G&L Legacy strat. Gorgeous, top-notch materials & workmanship, and sounds amazing. I'd take one over a current Fender American Standard or Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster any day.
"On the other hand, that they [psychopaths] all owned assault weapons is purely a coincidence."
So I guess all the slashers, stranglers, people who drop someone off a building, hit them with a car, set little kids on fire, or cops that kill somebody they've arrested while the victim is in handcuffs and face-down, or leaders that convince an entire nation to commit mass genocide (after first disarming the populace) are all shining beacons of sanity.
Gramps, who owns and carries an AR-15 sport carbine on his large ranch in the S.W. needs to be institutionalized. Same for Yukon Bob living in the Alaskan wilderness carrying a sport carbine.
I would think that the Koch bro's "Citizen's United" has opened the door for more corruption than one could ever hope to find.
I'd be fine with reversing Citizens United as long as organizations of any kind...unions, PACs, citizens groups, 503(c)s, etc, etc...were all forbidden under the same legal precedent/SCOTUS decision as corporations. Only individual citizens allowed, period. Allowing one organized group speech-through-money (as described in that case) but not others is simply silencing those you dislike.
No I was pointing out the statement is absurd on its face without at least a minimal effort to back it up, as was mine. Without that it just "some dude saying something on the internet".
"Soros supports progressive-liberal causes. He is known as "The Man Who Broke the Bank of England" because of his US$1 billion in investment profits during the 1992 Black Wednesday UK currency crisis."
$1,352,000 â" Republican Governors Association
$100,000 â" Americans for Better Government
George Soros: $32,506,500
$12.05 million â" Joint Victory Campaign 2004
$7.5 million â" America Coming Together
$2.5 million â" MoveOn.org
$3.65 million â" America Votes
$3.5 million â" The Fund for America
$150,000 â" Win Back Respect
$120,000 â" Majority Action
$100,000 â" Campaign Money Watch
Soros certainly wins the 527 group spending battle, beating the Koch brothers $32.5 million to $1.5 million.
It's not hard to find. Unless you don't really want to know.
Why don't you ask the Koch Brothers? You know them, they collapse economies for fun and want a "new world order" of corporate governance, and they spend far, far more supporting radical Conservative groups and causes than George Soros ever dreamed of spending.
Fixed that for you...er or wait. No the take away from this response is that people say shit on the internet all the time.
So, what's your point? I mean, besides taking a true statement (my original statement unmodified) and turning it into an untrue and ridiculous statement?
In case you didn't notice, we're on a discussion forum. Responses and corrections are expected. Or does the fact I challenged the idiotic Koch brothers meme and pointed out it fits George Soros and Progressives much better bother you?
Actually, Congress gives Asshole Monkeys, a bad name.
"In my many years I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress." - John Adams
Does anyone believe the Koch brothers should learn to put the "r" back into their name?
Why don't you ask George Soros? You know him, he collapses economies for fun and wants a "new world order" of global governance, and he spends far, far more supporting radical Progressive groups and causes than the Koch brothers ever dreamed of spending.
He should have protested the lack of available jury trial by stripping naked in court. Then they'd have to hand him new charges for the same thing and deny him a jury trial for that. Just think, it would cause an endless loop that would cause the court system to blue screen lol.
[Austin Powers] The birds will love it! That's much more hip than those turtles that square Hawking cat rambles on about!
It's twigs-n-berries all the way down, baby, yeah! [/Austin Powers]
Slashdot Mirror
It interests me that everyone here speaks of the US Military the same way they speak of corporations - as one giant hive mind with no dissent within the ranks. News flash: the military, like a corporation, is comprised of people who don't all think the same. In the event of the military being directed to take arms against civilians - of the same country no less - it is quite likely there will be increased instances of mutiny. The results would be ... cataclysmic.
Exactly. See my post above. A significant fraction of US NG/military will break ranks and join the civilians, bringing along their military weapons, training/experience, organizational structure, and other assets. A full-out conflict in such a scenario would be, as you say, cataclysmic. Likely cataclysmic for the entire world as well.
Strat
I've spoken to a couple marine types after they've seen real action.. scary shit. They have little-to-no qualms attacking civilians if they are ordered to; for some the distinction between our civilians /or/ others' civilians doesn't even exist.
I grew up on military bases. I know a lot of military personnel, even up to a couple of full-bird colonels and two generals. We've actually had this discussion. I've yet to find any that would fire on US citizens, unless they were like radical Islamic types or similar.
If it came down to the government ordering the US military to "occupy" US cities and towns, round people up into camps, and basically carry out a "government takeover" and provide armed pacification and suppression against civilians, they would refuse, arrest the ones issuing the orders, and even launch an assault on government-loyalist positions if need be if things were that bad.
Google "Oath Keepers". There are many more that feel the same way but are reluctant to expose their beliefs, positions in the power structure, and/or telegraph any possible actions they might need to take in a desperate situation. Be assured a sizable chunk of the US NG and military will throw their lot (and their lives and military assets) in with the civilians in the event of such a takeover attempt.
What the real worry is for me are the treaties and agreements (both open and secret) with other countries that could provide for bringing in foreign troops for civilian pacification and rebellion suppression.
Still, the US government and any forces they employ will face the same threat that prevented both Germany and Japan from seriously considering invasion/occupation. A rifle behind every blade of grass, and knowing the kind of hardware hackers, etc, we have here in the US these days, new and ingenious IEDs lining every freeway, side-road, sidewalk, and footpath, and death waiting behind every window and door, plus our own home-brew drones. That's not even counting the military weapons and other assets that will surely be "liberated".
Unless they are willing to simply kill off ~70%-80% of the US population right from the start with WMDs, an occupation of the US would make Vietnam, Afghanistan, or any of the bloodiest campaigns of WW1 or WW2 look like a stroll in the park. Can you imagine? Former cops, gang-bangers, and mixed military all forming into ad-hoc combat units and working together against a common threat. Not the way I'd choose to unite the country, but revolution and upheaval does make for strange bedfellows when the feces strikes the rotary air circulation device.
I most fervently hope and pray that violence can be avoided. It would be such a waste of life and potential, and an unspeakable tragedy for so many. Sadly, sometimes those who lust for power and control make avoiding it impossible.
Strat
I happen to own a surf-green strat, so I paid a lot of attention to your post and you are right. Don't bring out the guns. Yet. But something has to be done and the only force (and this is not the USA alone) are the people... It's revolution time as far as I'm concerned.
o/t - Nice. Actually, any strat I pick up becomes a "blue" strat ;) My strat is actually finished in a cherry/gold-burst. But it's a blue strat all the same. Same with the vacuum tube amp I built.
Back on-topic, you're point about it being all people, not just Americans, is spot-on. There is an international freedom movement growing. Did you know there are Italian "TEA Parties", as well as Serbian, Georgian, British, and about 15 other national TEA Party movements? There are reported to be 20 of them meeting this weekend in Dallas, TX.
People across the globe are hungry for freedom, and their governments have been starving them for too long. And once again, they look to Americans as examples of how to become free.
Failure is not an option. Fortunately, all we really have to do for victory is to remember, and never again forget, who we are as a people, why our Constitution was written the way it was, and what we stand for. Our failure to remember is what has brought us to this point. It is what must first change before anything else will.
An idea, a dream of freedom and liberty, is far more powerful than any weapons in any government armories or airbases ever could be.
Strat
[The government] should be brought to justice... This is insane and a clear message from the government to everyone: You have NO rights at all! Time to fight terrorism people and it starts at home.
Agreed.
But, don't be in any hurry to violence. Use the four boxes in defense of liberty in the order established. At this point, Ghandi achieves more than Patrick Henry. Don't provide a convenient excuse for the government to declare martial law and roll out the Nat. Guard.
But if we are finally forced to the last box, don't forget ol' Pat.
As for myself, I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees, but at the same time I'll not sacrifice myself prematurely in a stupid act of individual violence that achieves little or nothing.
Strat
Almost all large American cities (you know, the places that tend to have the largest police forces) have "Liberal/Progressives" in power. Of the ten biggest cities in the US, only New York and San Diego have non-Democratic mayors. Quite simply, police brutality is a function of a city's size more than its politics. Thanks for trying to make a partisan issue out of it, though.
Please show me where in my post I mentioned Democrats or Republicans?
It's Liberal/Progressives in both parties.
And it isn't just the large cities, either. Wherever the Lib/Progs hold power, the government including the police abuse their power and engage in corruption.
You can take cities of comparable populations/police forces (or add together cities where Lib/Progs are not in charge to balance the pop./cop numbers) where one is run by Lib/Progs and the other by more conservative/libertarian types, and my point still stands.
Liberal/Progressives get elected repeatedly in large cities because that's where Lib/Prog tactics and methods..."machine politics", community organizers/organizations, unions, and special-interest groups...are most effective...among a large and concentrated population that is under-educated, ill-informed, poor, un- and under-employed, and already angry and desperate because of those things. This makes them easily-exploited by Liberal/Progressive rabble-rousers and race-pimps.
Strat
Darn it it looks like Lex Luthor had gotten control of the police department again.
I know I'll get modded down for this, but...
No, it's worse than Lex Luthor. Much worse.
It's the Liberal/Progressives.
They actually exist here in not-a-movie-land, unlike the fictional Luthor. Just Google for police brutality incidents and see where the vast majority of these incidents occur: In cities/towns/counties where Liberal/Progressives hold power.
"Protecting And Serving The Shit Out Of You."
Strat
And by now it probably won't surprise you that I'm libertarian and that the Austrian school economists are the ones that I... well, disregard the least, I suppose. That's why I think the problem of unnatural monopolies in a free market aren't a huge problem, since there's no regulatory barrier for new competitors to undercut the conspirators. Even when a cartel is too big to have to worry about new entrants, like OPEC, they're not that great at staying banded together.
Nice to see someone else around here who has actually taken the time & trouble to learn some history and macro-economics, and that has done some research, then employed some critical-thinking skills on what you found.
The point you made in your previous post regarding corporatism needing a large, powerful government can't be stressed enough.
I've met so many people who are angry at US corporatism and yet advocate for more government bureaucracy and regulation, when those are the exact tools the corporatists need and use to exercise their power.
This constant government expansion has been the general solution used for at least the last 5-6 decades or more. We can simply look around us and read the news to answer how well *that's* worked out for us.
Strat
It is inevitable this will happen, what is sad is that some people cannot accept this must happen at it's own pace and there is just so much you can do to hasten the arrival of alternative energy.
Stane: "William, here is the technology. I've asked you to simply make it smaller."
William: "Okay, sir, and that's what we're trying to do, but honestly, it's impossible."
Stane: "Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave! With a box of scraps!"
William: "Well, I'm sorry. I'm not Tony Stark."
---
Strat
Given that I don't watch/listen/follow any media organization, your assertion that they convinced me of anything is false. Like the Occupy movement, I made my judgments based on looking into the actual organizations themselves.
It's real nice and all that you "looked into" the TEA Parties (not TEA Party, singular...there is no single TEA Party). I'm a member of a TEA Party and thus get the emails, go to meetings/events, etc. These are the same people and same local leaders (with some natural turnover, of course) as when it came together, plus all the members that have joined since (that have not changed the direction or focus of TEA Party groups in any major way) and are still joining daily. There are no national leaders, only local. If any "co-opting" is going on, it's the TEA Parties co-opting the Republican party, thus the mainstream, old-guard Republican leadership's resentment of the TEA Parties.
What you describe has simply not happened. It is the opposite of a fact. If something like you've described has happened, they must have swapped people out with alien pod-clones, because I'm still talking to all the same people and about the same general agendas.
You keep insisting also in talking about the TEA Parties as a single entity. They consist of myriads of small (some as small as 5-10 members) to large groups of many hundreds or even thousands of members, each completely independent.
What may scare you even more is that the TEA Parties are going international. There are groups in more than a dozen nations now, and the list and the numbers are growing. It's becoming a world-wide grassroots movement. They are not about a single US political party.
You've either bought the propaganda hook, line, and sinker, or you're part of the propaganda-spreading machine. Nothing like what you describe has happened to any of the many groups across many states that I've had personal contact with.
If you've got a problem with your local TEA Party's agenda, stop whining on /. and start your own. If people like your ideas better, they'll join with your group instead.
Strat
Now, the Tea Party really has devolved into nothing more than an ultra-right wing movement, and the original organizers now have nothing more to do with it. All this happened in something like a month, which shows the terrifying efficiency of the entire media system in the US at swaying public opinion.
No.
It only took a month for the media to convince you that this was the case.
The TEA Party is not any single entity. Anyone calling themselves some kind of official national head(s) of the TEA Party are not. The TEA Party movement (it is a grassroots movement, not a political party as such) consists of thousands and thousands of small local groups that are self-funding through member donations, fund-raising events like bake sales, etc. They each determine their own political priorities and agendas. They don't always agree on every issue nor on favorite candidates.
Mainstream Republicans (Progressive Republicans) have tried to co-opt the TEA Parties, but have failed at every turn to make any significant inroads. The TEA Party movement is too decentralized for that kind of takeover.
They instead switched to convincing everyone, with the help of the media, that they had succeeded in co-opting the TEA Parties when they have done no such thing. They're scared of the TEA Parties, and for good reason. There are going to be a lot of mainstream career Republicans that will be voted out this election.
Strat
My fear would be if it works and could be applied in advertising, political rhetoric, and incorporated into television news and shows.
Too late.
It's called "propaganda".
Strat
You know nothing about neoconservatives, do you? For starters, most of the shining lights of that bunch were "dyed in the wool Progressives" in their earlier days. The 'neo' brand of conservatism has almost nothing to do with conservatism.
What you're describing seems to define Republican Progressives. There are Progressives in both major parties. Every several decades, Progressives re-emerge after the general public has forgotten about them and their failures, and have to be exposed and defeated all over again. Last time was roughly about a century ago, so I guess we're overdue for another round of Progressive Statism/Collectivism and another battle to defeat, expose, and discredit Progressivism, once again, as a repeatedly-failed ideology. The popular definition of insanity comes to mind.
Strat
Don't forget Wilson...inventing the seeds of what would become neoconservative foreign policy.
"Neoconservative" foreign policy? Wilson was a dyed-in-the-wool Progressive Democrat. Don't forget that most of the wars/military actions the US has been involved in were started/declared by Democrat administrations.
http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/american-wars.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Republicans_or_Democrats_have_started_more_wars
Democrat/Progressive attempts to label Republicans and Conservatives as "warmongers" falls flat when confronted by historical facts.
Strat
If it wasn't the practice previous to his actions and became practice after his deliberate actions to achieve precisely those goals, I'd say what you're arguing is a matter of semantics and does nothing to add to the discussion.
Just saying.
Strat
The destruction of US freedom started with Theodore Roosevelt,...
I would have said Woodrow Wilson, who introduced racial segregation to government and was the first president to put US-born citizens into concentration camps.
the total destruction of US dollar happened with Nixon,...
As far as strictly monetary policy goes, I agree, with the possible exception of Teddy Roosevelt's creation of the Federal Reserve. The non-monetary-policy causes of economic trouble started with the Progressive policies and government growth under Woodrow Wilson and the wealth redistribution schemes of FDR. One of the most disastrous occurrences was the loss of State rights sacrificed in the effort to abolish slavery. This set the stage for much of the Federal high-handedness due to the concentration of power in Washington D.C. we see today.
Strat
I'm sure the family's of the victims of the most recent Colarado shooting, who are currently having to solicit donations to pay for the healthcare of wounded family members are just so glad America has left it all to the private sector.
If they can get the word out about their needs, they stand a very good chance of receiving enough in donations to not only pay their medical expenses, but also pay off their mortgage and retire comfortably.
You can say a lot of things about American citizens, but one thing nobody can deny is their generosity, regardless of political party, especially towards those in dire/tragic straights. This was such a horrific national tragedy that I'm sure victims & families would be flooded with donations and offers of help if they asked publicly, explaining their needs/circumstances.
Look at all the news reports there were of individual private volunteers that just stood up without any orders or programs or government funding and took it upon themselves and used their own money and resources in New Orleans after Katrina, and the flood of donations that came in from individuals.
You really should have picked something better to make your point with. I can't imagine in circumstances like those in CO that those victims won't receive anything they need from ~300 million Americans that will make certain they receive any care or help whatsoever they may need and then some. I'm very proud to say that in my 5+ decades on this rock, that's one positive thing about the American people that has not changed for the worse, and if anything, has gotten even better.
Strat
One of the main reasons for installing smart gas meters is to not have to deal with customers like you. The meters are accurate and can be read from a distance. Meter readers who used to read 200 to 300 meters a day can now read 3000 a day, and they don't have to deal with your fences, holly bushes, mean dogs, and bad attitude.
Doesn't help me on my job because I have to physically walk over your service line and be able to touch the meter. I check for leaks, and if I can't do my job because of the bloody obstacle course you've made your yard into, then I just write it down as uncheckable and you're on your own.
Nobody is out to cheat you. The gas company gets cheated way more often than the customer does.
The problem I have with smart meters for gas & electricity isn't a worry about the utility company somehow "cheating" me.
It's a number of things.
First, it allows real-time rationing on an individual level, allowing for all kinds of possible discrimination and other shenanigans. For instance, you get identified at a protest against your utility company, a politician your utility company supports, or some piece of legislation, and then suddenly, and completely coincidentally of course, all sorts of bad things happen to your service and your billing.
Second, it also provides a pool of very granular and detailed data that I don't particularly care to to have in the hands of either the utility or the government/LEAs, especially without strict rules that we as citizens and consumers get to vote on. How about a spouse using the data in a divorce to prove another person was there? Or a LEA using that blip in usage when you pulled out that old broken toaster-oven/microwave/etc to try to fix it as evidence of criminal activity.
Third, it's another set of data points that allow a more thorough profiling of individual habits, schedules, and activities. It's data that's also sure to be stolen/hacked at some point, either directly from the meters or from the utility database. Hack the smart meter of somebody you don't like and get them raided by a paramilitary SWAT team looking for a grow operation, maybe even getting them or their family members killed.
Sorry that your job is difficult. However, I'm not about to allow myself to be put into the above scenarios just to make your job easier. Get another job if it's that bad.
Strat
I just want to ask one very stupid question: name one human activity which drone strikes do not disrupt?
Mass suicides.
Hey, don't look at me like that.
You were the one that asked...
Strat
Actually, once I took about 2000 euro's from an ATM at 4 o'clock in the morning to pay for my USA Fender that would arrive the next day. At that time, that was about 10 million US dollars! Give or take a few cents.
Although I admire your taste in instruments (see my username), I would have recommended a G&L, which is what I play these days rather than a Fender.
http://www.glguitars.com/
G&L is actually more true "Fender" than Fender. G&L is George Fullerton and Leo Fender, the original founders of Fender Musical Instruments. Fender was bought out by CBS in 1968, although I'm not sure/haven't checked to see who owns Fender these days. Once the non-compete clause from the sale contract expired, they got up to their old musical tricks again.
I own a G&L Legacy strat. Gorgeous, top-notch materials & workmanship, and sounds amazing. I'd take one over a current Fender American Standard or Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster any day.
Strat
"On the other hand, that they [psychopaths] all owned assault weapons is purely a coincidence."
So I guess all the slashers, stranglers, people who drop someone off a building, hit them with a car, set little kids on fire, or cops that kill somebody they've arrested while the victim is in handcuffs and face-down, or leaders that convince an entire nation to commit mass genocide (after first disarming the populace) are all shining beacons of sanity.
Gramps, who owns and carries an AR-15 sport carbine on his large ranch in the S.W. needs to be institutionalized. Same for Yukon Bob living in the Alaskan wilderness carrying a sport carbine.
Got it.
Strat
I would think that the Koch bro's "Citizen's United" has opened the door for more corruption than one could ever hope to find.
I'd be fine with reversing Citizens United as long as organizations of any kind...unions, PACs, citizens groups, 503(c)s, etc, etc...were all forbidden under the same legal precedent/SCOTUS decision as corporations. Only individual citizens allowed, period. Allowing one organized group speech-through-money (as described in that case) but not others is simply silencing those you dislike.
Strat
No I was pointing out the statement is absurd on its face without at least a minimal effort to back it up, as was mine. Without that it just "some dude saying something on the internet".
Are you too lazy to use the Google?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros
"Soros supports progressive-liberal causes. He is known as "The Man Who Broke the Bank of England" because of his US$1 billion in investment profits during the 1992 Black Wednesday UK currency crisis."
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/09/opensecrets-battle---koch-brothers.html
David Koch: $1,472,000
$1,352,000 â" Republican Governors Association
$100,000 â" Americans for Better Government
George Soros: $32,506,500
$12.05 million â" Joint Victory Campaign 2004
$7.5 million â" America Coming Together
$2.5 million â" MoveOn.org
$3.65 million â" America Votes
$3.5 million â" The Fund for America
$150,000 â" Win Back Respect
$120,000 â" Majority Action
$100,000 â" Campaign Money Watch
Soros certainly wins the 527 group spending battle, beating the Koch brothers $32.5 million to $1.5 million.
It's not hard to find. Unless you don't really want to know.
Strat
Why don't you ask the Koch Brothers? You know them, they collapse economies for fun and want a "new world order" of corporate governance, and they spend far, far more supporting radical Conservative groups and causes than George Soros ever dreamed of spending.
Fixed that for you...er or wait. No the take away from this response is that people say shit on the internet all the time.
So, what's your point? I mean, besides taking a true statement (my original statement unmodified) and turning it into an untrue and ridiculous statement?
In case you didn't notice, we're on a discussion forum. Responses and corrections are expected. Or does the fact I challenged the idiotic Koch brothers meme and pointed out it fits George Soros and Progressives much better bother you?
Strat
Actually, Congress gives Asshole Monkeys, a bad name.
"In my many years I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress." - John Adams
Does anyone believe the Koch brothers should learn to put the "r" back into their name?
Why don't you ask George Soros? You know him, he collapses economies for fun and wants a "new world order" of global governance, and he spends far, far more supporting radical Progressive groups and causes than the Koch brothers ever dreamed of spending.
Strat
He should have protested the lack of available jury trial by stripping naked in court. Then they'd have to hand him new charges for the same thing and deny him a jury trial for that. Just think, it would cause an endless loop that would cause the court system to blue screen lol.
[Austin Powers] The birds will love it! That's much more hip than those turtles that square Hawking cat rambles on about!
It's twigs-n-berries all the way down, baby, yeah! [/Austin Powers]
Strat