> or simply insufficent user base to make them juicy targets
That argument is kinda flawed anyway.. or is anyone here goign to suggest that the Amiga reached a popularity anywhere close to that of Linux or OSX? Yet that machine has/had a substantial virus problem as well (sure, bit as big as Windows, but waaaaay beyond what OSX, Linux, *BSD, Solaris, Irix, AIX, HP-UX and all other Unix variations have seen together.
The design of an OS does play a substantial role in this. Doesn't mean we wont see a wide spread Linux virus ever, but it is simply a lot less likely even if it had a 10x larger marketshare then Windows.
Heh, a factual statement should not be made because it does not fit *your* political agenda? Give me a break.
You are mistaken also. OSS developers should definitely stay out of politics, it would hurt the OSS movement to do otherwise. That doesn't mean one cannot look at the whole picture and come to the conclusion that it is one of the motivations for people to use OSS and to participate in it. Due to that OSS gets more people supporting it, and that does work in the advantage of OSS. Is it an important one, and one that should be in such a list of 12 reasons tho? I don't think so.
What I do think is that OSS has nothing to do with the concept of nations, and the 2 should not be mixed, and I think that is also basicly what you are saying. It is not such a bad idea however to realize there are people who do mix those 2.
OSS is not anti American. It is chosen by people over MS products at times because those people have somethign against the USA, and get themselves free from depending on the USA.
The original article nor me ever suggested OSS is anti American and how coudl we. It is people who are anti whatever, software is just that, a tool.
> but I am pretty sure that you mean.AC3 format not.AAC.
Oops, you are right of course. What I tried to say is that whenever consumers encounter surround sound, it is not in OGG format, hence the fact that ogg already supports it is pretty irrelevant.
If you'd read back this thread, you'd see that I was replying to someone who was arguing that for him it was no real problem, however, this was a technical person.
You are confirming that technical people might be able to use those products relatively safely, but that does not change that they are aimed at non techincal people and that those will have a problem.
> 2. That's what good AV is for. I use Norton and have yet to be infected with Outlook, not to mention my e-mail provider's virus protection on their e-mail server, which seems to work pretty well.
It works pretty well because you obviously did not have the 'luck' yet to receive a new virus before the virus scanner is updated. It is a matter of time before this happens.
> So you are suggesting that the best business practice is to badger your clients to change their computer system?
In case you are working for them as a consultant? yes. - Less costly in general - Far fewer incidents, resulting in less cost again.
That seems pretty good business and pretty good advice to me.
> Maybe Adobe should refuse to make and support any more products for Windows until the unwashed masses become enlightened. I'm sure their corporate bottom-line will understand why they've abandoned the majority of their business base.
No, they shouldn't. It is the customers choice, not Adobe.
What they should do however is ensure that their products for other platforms are as usable, so they actually give their customers the option of using something better.
As long as things like Adobe reader for PalmOS require me to have Windows on my pc, Adobe has not gotten the clue here.
Blahblahblahblah. What does this have to do with anything?
Yeah, I see what you are trying to say, but really, it would be a lot closer to reality if you included that due to wrong analysis the tumor was removed but in such a way that it was sure to spread throughout the body first.
I'm sorry to see that you do not understand why improper reasons for a choice, even if the outcome of that choice might have been similar when usign the right reasons, is quite likely to cause bigger problems then you tried to solve.
> if Kerry thought looking anti-American is going > to help him, or you think it will help Linux, you > are wrong. It is not going to resonate with > people who aren't already on your side.
You are makign 2 mistakes here.
1. This is about people who use Linux. Sure, it has a bit to do with those who develop it, but more with the possibility to change it without dependign on a company that we dont trust that is protected by a government we don't trust.
2. You look at it from an utter American point of view, your point of view is not shared by a large majority of people outside the USA.
Last but not least, you make the rather big mistake of confusing 'disagreement' with beign anti American.
You better read up a bit of your history, having different opinions and disagreeing with eachother are allowed in a democratic society, and in fact are fundamental for such a society to function.
Regardless, you can believe what you want, no issue there. Takign issue with soemone elses belies? well, come up with arguments instead of sentiment and maybe soem peopel might even be willing to listen to it.
It matters to me as non American what the outcome of the elections in 2000 was and what it will be now.
Yeah, its a choice between a conservative puppet and a 'liberal' clown, but soemnhow the later is a lot less dangerous for this world then the first. That directly affects my life as well as yours, regasrdless where in this world you happen to live.
When comp[aring ogg to mp3 maybe, but virtually any consumer who ever deals with surround sound there days will get it from a DVD in aac format.
When a mp3 player with surround sound gets developed, on which peopel can also play back all their old mp3s, then that player will have an enormous advantage over ogg, regardless of how much earlier ogg had surround sound.
I wonder tho, multi channel mpeg audio is not new, it has been done on mpeg layer 2, and that is in fact in use in many European DVD players.
From the little info in the article it seems to me that they applied the same idea to mp3.. doesn't sound like somethign thats new really.
Hmm, I am very aware that links are fundamental to the web, but since when is linking a right?
If they don't want the trafic, then they can block it, and if you link to something without talking to the source you run all kinds of risks like.. the content being pulled, changed, or like this, refusing linking to it.
> Accepting someone elses design is almost admitting that a under funded agency can bring up better plans than NASA.
Thats wrong in at least 2 ways.
- The Energia rocket dates back to Soviet times, and at that time the institute was not underfunded really.
- This technology is about as old as the Saturn 5 rocket. Using it is like saying that NASA took a 3 decade detour, which might be true, but is not likely what NASA wants.
Oh, and good advice, tho I am somewhat aware of Indian history already. India is a very interesting country, and be asured that my picture of it is a lot broader then snake charmers. At any rate, getting to know more about Indian culture and history is both usefull and interesting.
It is in fact the wisdom and achievements of one of your past leaders that makes me believe so strongly in what I said earlier regarding hate not being a solution.
Oh, I'm not from the USA btw, I'm from Europe, and I quite agree with regards to corruption of the US political system, sadly enough we ourselves have our fair share of it.
Well, I am aware of there being differences, regardless, there has been enough reason for hate in Europe, and there are many other parts of the world where such reasons are present as well. Most palces that have a history with such things also show a very clear picture that it is not going to solve anything. That is not unique for Europe, nor India.
Anyway, I was responding to the 'look into Indian history' comment, and trying to make clear that this is not unique for Indian history and actually that the background is pretty irrelevant.
My friend, dropping a nuke is simply not going to solve that, so don't be surprised by peopel being shocked about such a response (not that it was your response in this case)
I suggest that you read up a bit on European history, we know a lot about centuries of invading eachother, hating eachother, and wanting eachother dead, and in some parts of Europe (Kosovo for example) they still didn't figure out that all that gets them is destruction and death.
Defending against atack? definitely. Hate those whom atack you? all you will do is continue the circle of hate instead of breaking it.
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> or simply insufficent user base to make them juicy targets
That argument is kinda flawed anyway.. or is anyone here goign to suggest that the Amiga reached a popularity anywhere close to that of Linux or OSX? Yet that machine has/had a substantial virus problem as well (sure, bit as big as Windows, but waaaaay beyond what OSX, Linux, *BSD, Solaris, Irix, AIX, HP-UX and all other Unix variations have seen together.
The design of an OS does play a substantial role in this. Doesn't mean we wont see a wide spread Linux virus ever, but it is simply a lot less likely even if it had a 10x larger marketshare then Windows.
Why do I have a seperate tuner and 2 seperate amps? ;P
Heh, a factual statement should not be made because it does not fit *your* political agenda?
Give me a break.
You are mistaken also. OSS developers should definitely stay out of politics, it would hurt the OSS movement to do otherwise. That doesn't mean one cannot look at the whole picture and come to the conclusion that it is one of the motivations for people to use OSS and to participate in it. Due to that OSS gets more people supporting it, and that does work in the advantage of OSS. Is it an important one, and one that should be in such a list of 12 reasons tho? I don't think so.
What I do think is that OSS has nothing to do with the concept of nations, and the 2 should not be mixed, and I think that is also basicly what you are saying. It is not such a bad idea however to realize there are people who do mix those 2.
You still do not understand.
OSS is not anti American.
It is chosen by people over MS products at times because those people have somethign against the USA, and get themselves free from depending on the USA.
The original article nor me ever suggested OSS is anti American and how coudl we. It is people who are anti whatever, software is just that, a tool.
> but I am pretty sure that you mean .AC3 format not .AAC .
Oops, you are right of course.
What I tried to say is that whenever consumers encounter surround sound, it is not in OGG format, hence the fact that ogg already supports it is pretty irrelevant.
Troll? So some moderator thinks that somehow the fact that people keep using broken stuff is not the problem? (goes looking for his cluestick)
If you'd read back this thread, you'd see that I was replying to someone who was arguing that for him it was no real problem, however, this was a technical person.
You are confirming that technical people might be able to use those products relatively safely, but that does not change that they are aimed at non techincal people and that those will have a problem.
> 2. That's what good AV is for. I use Norton and have yet to be infected with Outlook, not to mention my e-mail provider's virus protection on their e-mail server, which seems to work pretty well.
It works pretty well because you obviously did not have the 'luck' yet to receive a new virus before the virus scanner is updated. It is a matter of time before this happens.
> So you are suggesting that the best business practice is to badger your clients to change their computer system?
In case you are working for them as a consultant? yes.
- Less costly in general
- Far fewer incidents, resulting in less cost again.
That seems pretty good business and pretty good advice to me.
> Maybe Adobe should refuse to make and support any more products for Windows until the unwashed masses become enlightened. I'm sure their corporate bottom-line will understand why they've abandoned the majority of their business base.
No, they shouldn't. It is the customers choice, not Adobe.
What they should do however is ensure that their products for other platforms are as usable, so they actually give their customers the option of using something better.
As long as things like Adobe reader for PalmOS require me to have Windows on my pc, Adobe has not gotten the clue here.
Blahblahblahblah. What does this have to do with anything?
Yeah, I see what you are trying to say, but really, it would be a lot closer to reality if you included that due to wrong analysis the tumor was removed but in such a way that it was sure to spread throughout the body first.
I'm sorry to see that you do not understand why improper reasons for a choice, even if the outcome of that choice might have been similar when usign the right reasons, is quite likely to cause bigger problems then you tried to solve.
> if Kerry thought looking anti-American is going
> to help him, or you think it will help Linux, you
> are wrong. It is not going to resonate with
> people who aren't already on your side.
You are makign 2 mistakes here.
1. This is about people who use Linux. Sure, it has a bit to do with those who develop it, but more with the possibility to change it without dependign on a company that we dont trust that is protected by a government we don't trust.
2. You look at it from an utter American point of view, your point of view is not shared by a large majority of people outside the USA.
Last but not least, you make the rather big mistake of confusing 'disagreement' with beign anti American.
You better read up a bit of your history, having different opinions and disagreeing with eachother
are allowed in a democratic society, and in fact are fundamental for such a society to function.
Regardless, you can believe what you want, no issue there. Takign issue with soemone elses belies? well, come up with arguments instead of sentiment and maybe soem peopel might even be willing to listen to it.
I think you are wrong.
It matters to me as non American what the outcome of the elections in 2000 was and what it will be now.
Yeah, its a choice between a conservative puppet and a 'liberal' clown, but soemnhow the later is a lot less dangerous for this world then the first. That directly affects my life as well as yours, regasrdless where in this world you happen to live.
And the problem is that those products are really aimed at non technical people. How are they supposed to know or understand?
When comp[aring ogg to mp3 maybe, but virtually any consumer who ever deals with surround sound there days will get it from a DVD in aac format.
When a mp3 player with surround sound gets developed, on which peopel can also play back all their old mp3s, then that player will have an enormous advantage over ogg, regardless of how much earlier ogg had surround sound.
I wonder tho, multi channel mpeg audio is not new, it has been done on mpeg layer 2, and that is in fact in use in many European DVD players.
From the little info in the article it seems to me that they applied the same idea to mp3.. doesn't sound like somethign thats new really.
They don't consider virus problems big enough of a bother to change. Learn to read mr. A.C.
Well.. I'd put that a bit differently.
You are forced to use it because your employer nor your customers have put serious thought into the actual cost of such incidents.
Welcome to the real world.
While I agree about the solution, it seems that most people are not bothered enough by this problem to accept such a solution.
They want the stuff they know, and not soemthign that looks like it.
No, people who use broken and very easy to infect software are the problem.
Hmm, I am very aware that links are fundamental to the web, but since when is linking a right?
If they don't want the trafic, then they can block it, and if you link to something without talking to the source you run all kinds of risks like.. the content being pulled, changed, or like this, refusing linking to it.
huh? read the article?
Does that mean they will get all those interesting offers for generic viagra and such by snail mail there?
> Accepting someone elses design is almost admitting that a under funded agency can bring up better plans than NASA.
Thats wrong in at least 2 ways.
- The Energia rocket dates back to Soviet times, and at that time the institute was not underfunded really.
- This technology is about as old as the Saturn 5 rocket. Using it is like saying that NASA took a 3 decade detour, which might be true, but is not likely what NASA wants.
Ok, all clear :)
Oh, and good advice, tho I am somewhat aware of Indian history already. India is a very interesting country, and be asured that my picture of it is a lot broader then snake charmers. At any rate, getting to know more about Indian culture and history is both usefull and interesting.
It is in fact the wisdom and achievements of one of your past leaders that makes me believe so strongly in what I said earlier regarding hate not being a solution.
Oh, I'm not from the USA btw, I'm from Europe, and I quite agree with regards to corruption of the US political system, sadly enough we ourselves have our fair share of it.
Well, I am aware of there being differences, regardless, there has been enough reason for hate in Europe, and there are many other parts of the world where such reasons are present as well. Most palces that have a history with such things also show a very clear picture that it is not going to solve anything. That is not unique for Europe, nor India.
Anyway, I was responding to the 'look into Indian history' comment, and trying to make clear that this is not unique for Indian history and actually that the background is pretty irrelevant.
My friend, dropping a nuke is simply not going to solve that, so don't be surprised by peopel being shocked about such a response (not that it was your response in this case)
I suggest that you read up a bit on European history, we know a lot about centuries of invading eachother, hating eachother, and wanting eachother dead, and in some parts of Europe (Kosovo for example) they still didn't figure out that all that gets them is destruction and death.
Defending against atack? definitely. Hate those whom atack you? all you will do is continue the circle of hate instead of breaking it.
When people decide to not get offended by such things, the shock effect will be gone and there is no longer a reason to look for extremes in that way.