I seem to have read somewhere that buckyballs can be formed during the incomplete combustion of organic materials suchs as fuels and garbage. If so, there doesn't need to be any commercial application before it ends up in rivers and our lungs.
Re:when asked if the methane was biological in ori
on
Methane on Mars?
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· Score: 1
Actually, the methane is almost certainly primordial and has nothing at all to do with life, not even life as we don't know it! If not, then Jupiter, Saturn etc. must be awash with microorganisms. Methanogenic bacteria down here on planet Earth work by converting organic matter to CO2 in the absence of oxygen and are as such advanced organisms. So no methanogenic bacteria could evolve until life had already provided them with something to eat. Their predecessors, still to be found around deep ocean vents etc., convert primordial methane to water and CO2 by reducing e.g. iron oxide. The fact that the red planet is RED (oxidised iron), suggests that these bacteria just aren't there, otherwise it would be the BLACK planet. So people, the presence of methane in the Martian atmosphere just means that Mars is a chilly oxygen-free planet.
Of course the NASA folks know this, but they need to make sure their budgets are approved and since the SETI programme hasn't brought any solace to members of the "we-are-not-alone" club and rockets cost money, a politically viable campaign had to be launched. Therefore a warm welcome to the Search for Extraterrestrial Life endeavour.
Sorry to pour cold water on this but there's a huge problem with any theory of open shallow seas of warm (or even cold water) on Mars: the gravitational field of Mars is too low!! Water vapour on Mars escapes into the dark blue yonder as easily (almost) as hydrogen on earth. Leave a pail of water heated to 1 deg C on Mars and it'll just boil away. One might argue that atmospheric pressure was much higher in the past because of large quantities of CO2, but then the greenhouse effect would have been greater and partial vapour of water higher, so water vapour would have escaped even faster.
So how come we find evidence of liquid water? The answer as Thomas Gold and others have said, is that the water flowed under glaciers where it was unable to evaporate and could pick up soluble salts from the rocks. Some surface features on Mars can only be explained as glacial detritus.
In any event, the duration of the liquid water period is likely to have been very short, having come about either through outgassing from the planet's interior or perhaps as a result of collisions with comets early in the history of the solar system.
Maybe. I'm not sure though. It's interesting that the really big antitrust rulings in the EU have been against corporations with heade offices outside the EU (Microsoft, H.LaRoche). One could argue that the commissioners are not subject to the same sort of pressures from member countries as they would be if "local" interests were involved. Someone in the know should analyse this to see if there's a trend.
Right on! The info. Maughan is trying to suppress is publicly available, if he doesn't like it he should clean up his act rather than trying to hide the dirt. And then there's the question of free speech too! Looks like Maughan's just trying to scare Google into an out-of-court settlement so as to claw back some of the earnings he's lost by being suspended.
Quite agree as far as "violent criminals" are concerned, since the justice system has as one of its principles that punishment leads to reformed ways. Given this legislation, a born-again Christian lay preacher who once served time for beating someone up would be forever barred from air travel! Terrorists are another matter, since their belief system involves killing people that don't share their views. Keep them fenced in and treat them as psychotics is my suggestion!
Point taken! I'd forgotten that "foundry"
is also used by the microelectronics guys - I was thinking of large pieces of metal. It might be worth adding that the whole environmental debate is about changing/replacing methods of manufacture. Corporations that are leaders in these areas tend to remain profitable and keep their employees simply because they renew themselves. One way of stopping jobs leaking from high pay societies is for governments and users to insist that importers show that manufacturers use environmentally sound processes, no matter where the products are made. What's the point of closing down users of dirty processes in one country yet allowing them to continue to supply their markets with the same goods made in the same way in some third world country that doesn't or can't afford to give a damn.
As I see it, the biggest threat to innovation is the fact that many maybe most medium-large production companies are managed by people who believe that it is safer to sit tight and do nothing rather than risk something new that might not work. The gist of the matter is that the people that run these companies don't trust their own judgement (=lack competence) in these matters and fail to understand the relationship between what their organisation can provide and how their customers needs are going to change. It's no coincidence than the decision-taking power of senior management is often top-heavy with lawyers, accountants and financial business school graduates - "what have they ever sold?" as a friend of mine would say. These are the people that believe that cost-cutting exercises begin with the R&D dept.
Contrary to what some people think, the Chinese buy what works rather than wait until they can copy it themselves. My expereience is that Chinese companies have no problems paying good money for good technology. Of course it'll get copied eventually, but what's new about that? The innovators have to make sure that they stay out there at the leading edge, where the money is!
Finally, it's just not true that the US leads. I work with the foundry industry and the general concensus on both sides of the Atlantic is that Europe is the technological leader in most areas. And I'm sure other European slashdotters can come up with other industries where the US is at best a good #2. Remember pride comes before a fall.
1. The water almost certainly flowed below ice, in fact the case has already been made for the surface of Mars being glaciated. The temperature surface gravity and atmospheric pressure are in any event so low that free liquid water would soon turn to ice which would then sublime to water vapour which would then be lost.
2. Mars may well have picked up its ice from collisions with comets, in which case it would have disappeared again fairly quickly, hardly enougfh time for life to develop.
Slashdot Mirror
I seem to have read somewhere that buckyballs can be formed during the incomplete combustion of organic materials suchs as fuels and garbage. If so, there doesn't need to be any commercial application before it ends up in rivers and our lungs.
Actually, the methane is almost certainly primordial and has nothing at all to do with life, not even life as we don't know it! If not, then Jupiter, Saturn etc. must be awash with microorganisms. Methanogenic bacteria down here on planet Earth work by converting organic matter to CO2 in the absence of oxygen and are as such advanced organisms. So no methanogenic bacteria could evolve until life had already provided them with something to eat. Their predecessors, still to be found around deep ocean vents etc., convert primordial methane to water and CO2 by reducing e.g. iron oxide. The fact that the red planet is RED (oxidised iron), suggests that these bacteria just aren't there, otherwise it would be the BLACK planet. So people, the presence of methane in the Martian atmosphere just means that Mars is a chilly oxygen-free planet. Of course the NASA folks know this, but they need to make sure their budgets are approved and since the SETI programme hasn't brought any solace to members of the "we-are-not-alone" club and rockets cost money, a politically viable campaign had to be launched. Therefore a warm welcome to the Search for Extraterrestrial Life endeavour.
Sorry to pour cold water on this but there's a huge problem with any theory of open shallow seas of warm (or even cold water) on Mars: the gravitational field of Mars is too low!! Water vapour on Mars escapes into the dark blue yonder as easily (almost) as hydrogen on earth. Leave a pail of water heated to 1 deg C on Mars and it'll just boil away. One might argue that atmospheric pressure was much higher in the past because of large quantities of CO2, but then the greenhouse effect would have been greater and partial vapour of water higher, so water vapour would have escaped even faster. So how come we find evidence of liquid water? The answer as Thomas Gold and others have said, is that the water flowed under glaciers where it was unable to evaporate and could pick up soluble salts from the rocks. Some surface features on Mars can only be explained as glacial detritus. In any event, the duration of the liquid water period is likely to have been very short, having come about either through outgassing from the planet's interior or perhaps as a result of collisions with comets early in the history of the solar system.
Maybe. I'm not sure though. It's interesting that the really big antitrust rulings in the EU have been against corporations with heade offices outside the EU (Microsoft, H.LaRoche). One could argue that the commissioners are not subject to the same sort of pressures from member countries as they would be if "local" interests were involved. Someone in the know should analyse this to see if there's a trend.
Right on! The info. Maughan is trying to suppress is publicly available, if he doesn't like it he should clean up his act rather than trying to hide the dirt. And then there's the question of free speech too! Looks like Maughan's just trying to scare Google into an out-of-court settlement so as to claw back some of the earnings he's lost by being suspended.
Quite agree as far as "violent criminals" are concerned, since the justice system has as one of its principles that punishment leads to reformed ways. Given this legislation, a born-again Christian lay preacher who once served time for beating someone up would be forever barred from air travel! Terrorists are another matter, since their belief system involves killing people that don't share their views. Keep them fenced in and treat them as psychotics is my suggestion!
Point taken! I'd forgotten that "foundry" is also used by the microelectronics guys - I was thinking of large pieces of metal. It might be worth adding that the whole environmental debate is about changing/replacing methods of manufacture. Corporations that are leaders in these areas tend to remain profitable and keep their employees simply because they renew themselves. One way of stopping jobs leaking from high pay societies is for governments and users to insist that importers show that manufacturers use environmentally sound processes, no matter where the products are made. What's the point of closing down users of dirty processes in one country yet allowing them to continue to supply their markets with the same goods made in the same way in some third world country that doesn't or can't afford to give a damn.
As I see it, the biggest threat to innovation is the fact that many maybe most medium-large production companies are managed by people who believe that it is safer to sit tight and do nothing rather than risk something new that might not work. The gist of the matter is that the people that run these companies don't trust their own judgement (=lack competence) in these matters and fail to understand the relationship between what their organisation can provide and how their customers needs are going to change. It's no coincidence than the decision-taking power of senior management is often top-heavy with lawyers, accountants and financial business school graduates - "what have they ever sold?" as a friend of mine would say. These are the people that believe that cost-cutting exercises begin with the R&D dept. Contrary to what some people think, the Chinese buy what works rather than wait until they can copy it themselves. My expereience is that Chinese companies have no problems paying good money for good technology. Of course it'll get copied eventually, but what's new about that? The innovators have to make sure that they stay out there at the leading edge, where the money is! Finally, it's just not true that the US leads. I work with the foundry industry and the general concensus on both sides of the Atlantic is that Europe is the technological leader in most areas. And I'm sure other European slashdotters can come up with other industries where the US is at best a good #2. Remember pride comes before a fall.
1. The water almost certainly flowed below ice, in fact the case has already been made for the surface of Mars being glaciated. The temperature surface gravity and atmospheric pressure are in any event so low that free liquid water would soon turn to ice which would then sublime to water vapour which would then be lost. 2. Mars may well have picked up its ice from collisions with comets, in which case it would have disappeared again fairly quickly, hardly enougfh time for life to develop.