They are trying to say, don't make deals with people that are much larger and more powerful than you, you may wind up getting bullied out of things. I personally think they should have gone with the fable of "Lando and Darth Vader" ("This deal keeps getting worse all the time!")
The whole losing out to the lion (who took the 'lion's share') doesn't apply itself well to software, where you can create an infinite number of copies. The only thing that the 'lion's share' could apply to is intellectual property, which Sun definately _DOES NOT_ have rights to anyways.
The GPL would allow you to keep an internal improvement to the Linux core proprietary and closed. You could distribute the binaries throughout the corporation and never have to provide a line of source.
This actually isn't quite true - you still internally have to provide source in order to abide by the GPL. So if one of your employees using the binary asks for the source, you cannot restrict his rights to it, nor the right for him to give it out outside the company (Although it would probably cost him his job)
Anything that can be compiled and inserted as modules (INCLUDING code which modifies the kernel, as it's running) is NOT covered by the Linux GPL. Thus, such improvements CAN be shipped as closed, proprietary binaries. There's NOTHING to stop you from doing that.
Yes, very true. Something needs to be done about this though - there is no binary compatibility between versions (or in some cases, compiles) of the linux kernel. It could very well happen that someone with a large enough change would branch off the linux source for their customers and provide a binary compiled version and a binary 'upgrade' module here. This would be a very lousy thing to happen.
The thing that the SCSL provides is compatibility. Nothing prevents someone from forking linux kernel like XEmacs was forked from emacs (indeed, there have been a lot of groups who have seriously talked about forking the linux kernel). Then you have two linuxes, growing rapidly apart. This is exactly what a programming language like java _doesn't_ need. So Sun needed a license that made sure that compatibility was maintained with the base product. No other license does this (that I know of).
Actually, testing on a Mac is a b*tch. One bad pointer and your machine is toast, due to no memory protection. Forget to relinquish control of the program and the OS never saves you, you have to reboot. Best to do lots of debugging on the Windows machine and then struggle through the macintosh development afterwards. But if Macintosh had some level of security in the operating system, you could probably get done testing a lot faster than on a PC. Then again, I've never tried to collect 'one of everything' for PCs before I released a program. If you are releasing an OpenGL game, you are pretty much limited to three machines - G3, G4, and third rev iMac (they changed the video card when they started making them in other colors). Now the iBook and the new version of the iMac. That is still a lot of hardware to test on. I usually just test it on the PC by swapping out video cards. Hardware is abstracted for most things besides 3d video, so if there is a problem it is more likely a system issue than an appication issue. So if issues like that come up after release, I just work with the person (sometimes even having them send me their computer for testing!) to get it fixed for them. So far, it has always been the user messing with the registry settings or bad hardware/ram.
unfortunately, internet explorer would probably be the hardest possible program to emulate correctly. There are too many calls to undocumented system features. You would have to have a full COM, OLE Automation, and OLE/ActiveX implementation before you could even think of it working (that alone would be worth lots of money)
ICQ for windows is just about the least-stable program I run. I have to kill it many times a day. I swear the developers misused pointers and drawing contexts and were like 'cool! it changes font when we don't reset the context, lets add that as a feature! Random font support.. oh, we can draw on the desktop now because we have corrupted windows NT's context table, lets put little square indicators on top of everything to show people are online'
It routinely hangs the browser when I try to send a link, or hangs itself when I try to see a link (doesn't matter if its IE or netscape). It also has a bug where if you do development work on the system, it will consider any breakpoint in MFC code to be a breakpoint in its own code (don't even ask me HOW it does that, with my program using a completely different MFC dll). Also about once a week I will notice that it will make some other random program in my computer set to 'always on top', while it seems to get a 'always on bottom' mode (Even though no such thing exists in the win32 api)
ICQ is a piece of work. And rather than fixing their broken client or their broken protocol, what do they do? Add a search engine, a web portal, a feature so you can look up peoples horoscope while browsing their personal information, add an embedded web server...
I'm sorry, but.. I just love the Rams more than I love you
BTW: it takes a real man to name call what, 340 million people, as a whole as "filthy pigs ". Especially anonymously. You are such a pillar of good non-predjudiced behavior, you. I wish all the millions of us americans could be more like you
Sun's initial strategy for making money off of java was to charge for people who needed to 'customize' java to run on their platforms. I.e., need a port to strongarm for your set-top box? That will be $10k source code licensing fees, have fun with that 20 meg file we sent you.
They are kinda lost in that respect, not deciding what they should be focusing on. I personally think they have memory issues they desparately need to clean up involving swing, then after that they need to get a linux port out (or at least a Mac port, sheesh. Apple is not going to support Java 1.2 because of the politics involving a certain Redmond-based shareholder. I _need_ Mac support.)
all that being said, I really don't understand what is going on with the blackdown group. I check out their mail archives, and they are completely dead. no patches, no nothing. I swear they have a different list for developers they 'invite you to' after you have shown that you aren't an idiot or something. There is no talk of upgrading the current JDK to 1.2.1 or 1.2.2 (which were nearly completely bugfix releases), no talk about 1.3, nothing. If there was a project that I could help on to get things rolling, I would (unfortunately I am under an NDA with Sun that prevents me from working with an open-source project)
seriously, the amount of FUD-age that someone puts out about java sucking is usually a direct indicator of how much programming experience they have. I.e., inversely proportional.
he chose sun OS over linux to run java. Because linux kicks ass, java kicks ass, and linux doesn't support java well. There is no reason that linux should not support java (kaffe is kinda crummy compatibility-wise, but that can be fixed easily, and it is already super-fast), other than the 'community' has their mind set that java sucks, and doesn't want to work on it. Sun's #1 product is not java, they make very little money on it, and put forth a horrendous amount of development effort just to keep solaris and windows afloat.
actually, randy chapman's work really wasn't that great. I mean, it was really nice of him to do it, but there has been a LOT of changes to java since what, 1.0.2 that he did back in '96?
AFAIK (I have not done any benchmarks myself), the TowerJ commercial java compiler that makes native executables was blown away in benchmarks by the IBM compiler (which is a very sophisticated JIT). I don't know how much work is being poured into GCJ, but I hope they are concentrating on speed and compatibility (since the IBM JIT has both)
"Java is very badly designed, give me perl anyday" - translation - I have never written a program more than five lines long in my life.
"I don't see the point of java when it is closed source, to me it is just like VB" - translation: I have never worked in the corporate world before. I also have never checked to see just what parts of the java specification can be downloaded no-strings-attached from sun's site. I have also never heard of kaffe
"Java sucks, it is slow and crashes" - translation: I think that java and netscape navigator are the exact same thing.
2x as fast when running _what_? The only thing out there arguably faster than hotspot is IBM's JDK. Kaffe, last time I checked (which was two weeks ago) was slow and buggy, and didn't ship with a buggy java compiler and not enough of a java core class implementation to compile the code I needed.
it has a _looooong_ way to go before it is as good as the 1.2 Blackdown JDK (which in turn is nowhere near as good as the 1.1.7 Blackdown JDK, which is in turn crap compared to the windows JDK). Kaffe is one of the lowest rungs on the totem-poll.
Unless they have been keeping lots of cool changes out of their snapshots..
Windows 98 is more expensive than windows 95, dispite the market being larger for windows 98 than windows 95.
If demand goes down, price goes up to compensate. If demand goes up, price goes up because 'they have the fisk on the line'. Such is the way with monopolies. (like Microsoft, or the RIAA)
*grin* you can pirate support. I've done it (unknowningly). I called Wordperfect's support line once (shoot, for their first version for windows, how long ago was that?), because I had a video card driver conflict with their software, and wanted an upgrade to 6.1. I ended up just completely making up a license number on the phone (read off from a water-streaked piece of paper which turned out to be for a different piece of software)
What arrived in the mail? Wordperfect 6.1, and a new license:)
48 hours on a 500k line program would be a waste for a contractual programmer. Maybe if you needed them to change the splashscreen or something - you simply cannot get familiar with the code in that amount of time.
Also a contractual programmer wouldn't be given the task of 'do something really cool, here is $100,000'
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They are trying to say, don't make deals with people that are much larger and more powerful than you, you may wind up getting bullied out of things. I personally think they should have gone with the fable of "Lando and Darth Vader" ("This deal keeps getting worse all the time!")
The whole losing out to the lion (who took the 'lion's share') doesn't apply itself well to software, where you can create an infinite number of copies. The only thing that the 'lion's share' could apply to is intellectual property, which Sun definately _DOES NOT_ have rights to anyways.
So yes, I didn't get it either.
I thought that Bill Joy was just quoting RMS on this?
The GPL would allow you to keep an internal improvement to the Linux core proprietary and closed. You could distribute the binaries throughout the corporation and never have to provide a line of source.
This actually isn't quite true - you still internally have to provide source in order to abide by the GPL. So if one of your employees using the binary asks for the source, you cannot restrict his rights to it, nor the right for him to give it out outside the company (Although it would probably cost him his job)
Anything that can be compiled and inserted as modules (INCLUDING code which modifies the kernel, as it's running) is NOT covered by the Linux GPL. Thus, such improvements CAN be shipped as closed, proprietary binaries. There's NOTHING to stop you from doing that.
Yes, very true. Something needs to be done about this though - there is no binary compatibility between versions (or in some cases, compiles) of the linux kernel. It could very well happen that someone with a large enough change would branch off the linux source for their customers and provide a binary compiled version and a binary 'upgrade' module here. This would be a very lousy thing to happen.
The thing that the SCSL provides is compatibility. Nothing prevents someone from forking linux kernel like XEmacs was forked from emacs (indeed, there have been a lot of groups who have seriously talked about forking the linux kernel). Then you have two linuxes, growing rapidly apart. This is exactly what a programming language like java _doesn't_ need. So Sun needed a license that made sure that compatibility was maintained with the base product. No other license does this (that I know of).
I'm not joking, with parental supervision he should be able to get in..
(But I would hate to think how embarassing it would be to get on stage and give a speech with your mom there, correcting grammatical mistakes.. gohd)
Comdex not only has to worry about liability, but (Supposedly, I've never been) half the show is porn.
Actually, testing on a Mac is a b*tch. One bad pointer and your machine is toast, due to no memory protection. Forget to relinquish control of the program and the OS never saves you, you have to reboot. Best to do lots of debugging on the Windows machine and then struggle through the macintosh development afterwards. But if Macintosh had some level of security in the operating system, you could probably get done testing a lot faster than on a PC. Then again, I've never tried to collect 'one of everything' for PCs before I released a program. If you are releasing an OpenGL game, you are pretty much limited to three machines - G3, G4, and third rev iMac (they changed the video card when they started making them in other colors). Now the iBook and the new version of the iMac. That is still a lot of hardware to test on. I usually just test it on the PC by swapping out video cards. Hardware is abstracted for most things besides 3d video, so if there is a problem it is more likely a system issue than an appication issue. So if issues like that come up after release, I just work with the person (sometimes even having them send me their computer for testing!) to get it fixed for them. So far, it has always been the user messing with the registry settings or bad hardware/ram.
unfortunately, internet explorer would probably be the hardest possible program to emulate correctly. There are too many calls to undocumented system features. You would have to have a full COM, OLE Automation, and OLE/ActiveX implementation before you could even think of it working (that alone would be worth lots of money)
ICQ for windows is just about the least-stable program I run. I have to kill it many times a day. I swear the developers misused pointers and drawing contexts and were like 'cool! it changes font when we don't reset the context, lets add that as a feature! Random font support.. oh, we can draw on the desktop now because we have corrupted windows NT's context table, lets put little square indicators on top of everything to show people are online'
It routinely hangs the browser when I try to send a link, or hangs itself when I try to see a link (doesn't matter if its IE or netscape). It also has a bug where if you do development work on the system, it will consider any breakpoint in MFC code to be a breakpoint in its own code (don't even ask me HOW it does that, with my program using a completely different MFC dll). Also about once a week I will notice that it will make some other random program in my computer set to 'always on top', while it seems to get a 'always on bottom' mode (Even though no such thing exists in the win32 api)
ICQ is a piece of work. And rather than fixing their broken client or their broken protocol, what do they do? Add a search engine, a web portal, a feature so you can look up peoples horoscope while browsing their personal information, add an embedded web server...
I'm sorry, but.. I just love the Rams more than I love you
BTW: it takes a real man to name call what, 340 million people, as a whole as "filthy pigs ". Especially anonymously. You are such a pillar of good non-predjudiced behavior, you. I wish all the millions of us americans could be more like you
Dude, you got it all wrong.. REDO Commander Keen! All you have to do is make sure people only strafe, and make the levels reaaaaally long..
Sun's initial strategy for making money off of java was to charge for people who needed to 'customize' java to run on their platforms. I.e., need a port to strongarm for your set-top box? That will be $10k source code licensing fees, have fun with that 20 meg file we sent you.
They are kinda lost in that respect, not deciding what they should be focusing on. I personally think they have memory issues they desparately need to clean up involving swing, then after that they need to get a linux port out (or at least a Mac port, sheesh. Apple is not going to support Java 1.2 because of the politics involving a certain Redmond-based shareholder. I _need_ Mac support.)
all that being said, I really don't understand what is going on with the blackdown group. I check out their mail archives, and they are completely dead. no patches, no nothing. I swear they have a different list for developers they 'invite you to' after you have shown that you aren't an idiot or something. There is no talk of upgrading the current JDK to 1.2.1 or 1.2.2 (which were nearly completely bugfix releases), no talk about 1.3, nothing. If there was a project that I could help on to get things rolling, I would (unfortunately I am under an NDA with Sun that prevents me from working with an open-source project)
hell no! :)
seriously, the amount of FUD-age that someone puts out about java sucking is usually a direct indicator of how much programming experience they have. I.e., inversely proportional.
look for sunwjit.so in the JDK 1.2 pre v2 install.
he chose sun OS over linux to run java. Because linux kicks ass, java kicks ass, and linux doesn't support java well. There is no reason that linux should not support java (kaffe is kinda crummy compatibility-wise, but that can be fixed easily, and it is already super-fast), other than the 'community' has their mind set that java sucks, and doesn't want to work on it.
Sun's #1 product is not java, they make very little money on it, and put forth a horrendous amount of development effort just to keep solaris and windows afloat.
actually, randy chapman's work really wasn't that great. I mean, it was really nice of him to do it, but there has been a LOT of changes to java since what, 1.0.2 that he did back in '96?
AFAIK (I have not done any benchmarks myself), the TowerJ commercial java compiler that makes native executables was blown away in benchmarks by the IBM compiler (which is a very sophisticated JIT). I don't know how much work is being poured into GCJ, but I hope they are concentrating on speed and compatibility (since the IBM JIT has both)
or how about
"Java is very badly designed, give me perl anyday" - translation - I have never written a program more than five lines long in my life.
"I don't see the point of java when it is closed source, to me it is just like VB" - translation: I have never worked in the corporate world before. I also have never checked to see just what parts of the java specification can be downloaded no-strings-attached from sun's site. I have also never heard of kaffe
"Java sucks, it is slow and crashes" - translation: I think that java and netscape navigator are the exact same thing.
how is java not truely open?
2x as fast when running _what_? The only thing out there arguably faster than hotspot is IBM's JDK. Kaffe, last time I checked (which was two weeks ago) was slow and buggy, and didn't ship with a buggy java compiler and not enough of a java core class implementation to compile the code I needed.
it has a _looooong_ way to go before it is as good as the 1.2 Blackdown JDK (which in turn is nowhere near as good as the 1.1.7 Blackdown JDK, which is in turn crap compared to the windows JDK). Kaffe is one of the lowest rungs on the totem-poll.
Unless they have been keeping lots of cool changes out of their snapshots..
- Qd1-e2
- Ke1-f1
- Orange
- Merangue
- Hemos Sucks/Rob Sucks/Kasperov Sucks
Windows 98 is more expensive than windows 95, dispite the market being larger for windows 98 than windows 95.
If demand goes down, price goes up to compensate. If demand goes up, price goes up because 'they have the fisk on the line'. Such is the way with monopolies. (like Microsoft, or the RIAA)
err, look up the selling price for windows 3.1. They have never lowered their price 'after a few months'
Also, I have never paid more than $14 for a CD, unless it was a multi-disk set. Not in 1992, not now. When were they ever $25 a disk? Not in the 90's
*grin* you can pirate support. I've done it (unknowningly). I called Wordperfect's support line once (shoot, for their first version for windows, how long ago was that?), because I had a video card driver conflict with their software, and wanted an upgrade to 6.1. I ended up just completely making up a license number on the phone (read off from a water-streaked piece of paper which turned out to be for a different piece of software)
:)
What arrived in the mail? Wordperfect 6.1, and a new license
haha, lets lock you all in a room and get you to improve gcc ;-)
48 hours on a 500k line program would be a waste for a contractual programmer. Maybe if you needed them to change the splashscreen or something - you simply cannot get familiar with the code in that amount of time.
Also a contractual programmer wouldn't be given the task of 'do something really cool, here is $100,000'
You think code usually gets stress-tested? :)
How about some games coming out that swap out the purchased 3D engine about three weeks before ship date? (I won't mention names)