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More Quakes For Taiwan
E-Rock writes " Looks like another couple of quakes hit Taiwan. [The story's from CNN.com.] Just when I thought RAM prices were able to return to reality." There's also the people who work in those factories, who are having a rough time of it right now. I wonder if there's a Taiwan Electronics Industry Workers' Relief Fund or something like that. I'd kick in a few bucks.
Well, if the quake effects the factories, it must effect thousands if not millions of people. If it were false, and CNN was reporting on it, I think we would hear from someone who can prove otherwise :)
Apparently Micron didn't take kindly to foreign competition, so they filed a complaint with the Commerce Dept.
So what justification does Micron have for raising their prices as well?
None whatsoever, other than making fistloads of cash due to a scenario they created.
The last paragraph of the link provided below makes this rather clear when Steve Appleton, Micron's chairman, president, and CEO describes how they plan to get around Taiwan's tariffs in return.
This is pure bullshit on the part of Micron, particularly the way that they're laughing all the way to the bank.
http://www.ebnonline.com/story/OEG1 9991014S0009
Too sad to realize that people are just interested in cheap imports!
Information on how to help the victims of the Taiwan Earthquakes can go here:
Sharky Extreme's Taiwan Earthquake Relief Page
There are several links there.
It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
If they don't give in to our No-earthquake demands soon, we'll have to send in troops to enforce it.
A donation to the Very Big Corp of America wouldn't be a tax break. Better off sending to the workers. The sooner they can stop clawing through the wreckage of their house the sooner they can make more chips.
Yes I know this was tasteless, But I don't care.
I mean really. You have to be holding
perfectly still and paying attention to
even notice these unless you are sitting
right at ground zero. I know whereof I
speak. I'm sitting right now at pretty
much exactly ground zero of the Northridge
quake and live 20 miles away. We had many
many many 5.x aftershocks while I was at work
(Northridge). you could feel them here, but
they just rattled the suspended ceiling a bit,
didn't upset all the delicate equipment in the
lab at all. Hopping 6 inches in the air bounces
the lab equipment in the entire lab more than
most of these aftershocks. A 5.x aftershock
at night when I'm home half the people wouldn't
even feel.
Now if you have a shattered building from the
previous quake that's ready to fall the rest
of the way down in the slightest breeze this
may be all it takes. I'm hoping nobody is in
those buildings. If so -- you may want to leave.
garyr
-- your Web browser is Ronald Reagan
The USGS upgraded the Hector Mines Quake to a 7.1 after reviewing more data.
If you felt it, even a little, go to this questionaire and fill out the form.
-Lung
"I know nothing about the trauma the Taiwanese are going through right now?"
No one here actually believes that the most important side effect of the quake was a spike in RAM prices. But What would you like us to do? I for one would rather not read post after post of people crying about the loss of life/property in Taiwan. Especially because most of the people writing would just be faking it.
"My age means nothing,"
Of course it doesn't. If I said I was 9 you don't think you'd be condescending? I'm 19 now. And I remember myself as a lot younger and less mature back when I was 15. And I'll probably look back at age 19 the same way.
"Lemme tell a few jokes at your relative's funeral, I'm sure that will make everyone happy!"
I've always thought funerals should be more light-hearted events.
"People who turn these things into humour distort what they fundamentally are.."
Enjoyment and understanding are mutually exclusive? If I buy a consumer product, and it says "Made in China" if I think about it, I realize that it was almost certainly made by extremely low-wage workers in conditions that I would never want to work in. Does this mean I can't enjoy the product?
"...laugh at the expense of other's and their misery."
If I slipped on a banana peel, I have no doubt that you'd laugh at me. You'd probably even do it to my face.
"Forgive me for not laughing when folks are Dying out there alright?"
Dozens of people died while I was typing this out. (Perhaps more, I'm not sure of the numbers.) Forgive me for not crying for all of them.
In fact, I'm going to laugh at them for not sticking around long enough to hear what I had to say : HAHAHAHAHA.
Now I'm going to laugh at you for being shocked by my laughter : HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
And I'd better not catch you reading about the 'darwin awards'!
The biggest danger to Taiwan is people who think like Mr. Conspire. They want to spit in the faces of the most populous country in the world, and then have the US back them up.
It's not going to happen. The only way that Taiwan will get invaded is if it declares independence, since that is not tolerable to the Chinese army. Americans aren't willing to die by the millions to stop such an invasion.
Furthermore the US has signed agreements saying that there is only one China, and that Taiwan is a part of China. After all, that is still the official position of the Taiwanese government! Most Taiwanese people want to be independent, but this has become an issue of pride and face.
Taiwan can remain secure and de-facto independent if they just shut up and stop rocking the boat.
People will, no doubt, attack this message, claiming that it is unprincipled, cowardly, blah blah blah. But how many of you are willing to die so that Taiwan can call itself what it already pretty much is?
If any Taiwanese are under the illusion that, if the Chinese attack the US will save them, they are completely wrong. But don't worry; the Chinese are not insane. As long at you permit them to save their pride, they will not kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. The problem is that you are directly attacking their pride.
And having grown up in southern california, I'm aware of the magnitude, frequency, and usual damage caused by a 5.0 quake :) (at least in places with decent building codes)
Skyshadow is right on. I wouldn't rule out the idea that The People's Democratic Republic of China (ie, Mainland China, Communist China) purposefully caused the earthquakes that hit the Republic of China (ie Tawain).
--
?
Some of us like to buy ram :)
:(
Personally I liked it when you could buy a 128mb pc100 stick for $95, but now it seems to be over $250, so i am not buying it. I could really use it for a couple of server machiens too, but i aint buying it at these prices.
And the customers arent happy when I quote them a price then 2 days later the prices go up, right when they go to buy
Where I come from we used to have a joke
that a lazy person is one who lies atop
his woman and waits for an earthquake.
Apparently you live somewhere, where this
need not be a joke.
Still, so long as people get injured by and
sue on grounds of flight turbulence, I do not
see how any earthquake can be discounted as a
minor thing.
In short, it isn't all the quake's fault -- there would have been some price increase anyway. The quake just happened to come along at a time to spike things further.
"Why are prices so affected by this one location?"
It's quite simple really: cheap expoitable labor. RAM is no different than your favorite brand of athletic clothing: made at the lowest possible cost. If children could be trained to operate a chip fab, countries like Taiwan wouldn't hesitate.
I'm quite happy when the RAM is cheap, but because we import it, the prices are subject to the Taiwanese economy. They could collectively decide to raise prices, and without any American competition, we could do nothing but stand back and watch as the prices soar.
Think of the amount of money and jobs North America loses by having American companies do their manufacturing in places like Taiwan.
umm, start with microsoft? :)
Thats exactly what I would say. How stupid of us to put our most important center of business outside manhatten's finacial distric on top of a big freaking fault?
And when a 7.1 happens in the middle of a mostly empty desert it's not too likely to damage anything. Taiwan is densely populated, consisting largely of a poorly built city with many poorly built structures. A far cry from the Mojave Desert.
Earthquakes are a highly overrated danger unless you live in a poorly built building.
Or if you use delicate equipment, such as that required for semiconductor fabrication. Don't get me wrong; I think the ram price hikes are a crock, but it's hard to convince me that a M7.1 is no big deal when you're sitting on the epicenter. And it's easy to see how even a 5 could damage sensitive equipment.
Please use the entire word: Earthquake. I initially wondered why id software liked Taiwan so much.
Shut up, bleeding heart buttnugget!
Not to nitpick god_of_the_machine's comment.. But to add: yes they may have fabs in taiwan... But they also have fabs worldwide, including the United States.
Anyone ever stop to think that maybe RAM prices shooting through the roof might be a good thing for Linux and free Unix-like OS's in general?
:)
How many Win2000 machines do you think that Microsoft will sell if the standard PC configuration drops down to 16 or 32MB of RAM from 64 or 128MB? Linux will still run fine, but will Win2000 be usable?
Think *more* earthquakes, not less. Cheer *for* China, not root against it!
Earthquake in Taiwan and the first thing I think of is how it affect RAM prices. I'd also like to donate money so I can get rid of these feelings of guilt.
DeCSS is akin to a tool that breaks the lock on your house
Taken from http://www.mpaa.org/Press/default.HTM
test
thx. got word this morning ... their phone and power were out (some utility polls got taken down) untill early this morning.
I saw the same reports... but then I also grew up out there and know first hand just how "accurate" KTLA, KCOP, KTTV, KCBS, KABC, and KNBC from the greater LA basin are at reporting anything in the high desert.
Oh great, this post has a score of 0, it's true it doesn't include the word "linux" nor does it talk of windows crashes, but it would be damn interesting to read for people who set their threshold to 1 or more. Get a life guys !
Perhaps if somebody made DRAM somewhere other than Taiwan, this wouldn't be such a big deal.
:-(
This is really holding me back from upgrading my system...
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
For 3 reasons : 1) It's moronic 2) It's redundant 3) Even my 3 year-old cousin is better than you for making jokes
This will no doubt result in even more shipping delays and higher costs due to parts availability probems for end-users.
Any other stupid question ? Next please !
Just when I thought RAM prices were able to return to reality." There's also the people who work in those factories, who are having a rough time of it right now. I wonder if there's a Taiwan Electronics Industry Workers' Relief Fund or something like that. I'd kick in a few bucks
... people in general, you know what I mean?
/. posting an article saying 'Oh, there goes our software and other cool gadgets.'
I can't believe this. There's more to Taiwan than RAM and the electronics industry or even just people in the electronics industry. Like
If an earthquake hit Silicon Valley (and I'd hate to see that, since I'm living around there now), I can't imagine
Show some sensitivity. Please.
Those people over there better stop getting killed pretty soon, RAM costs too much as it is.
Taiwan: Please stop having earthquakes, it annoys us US computers users. Thank you.
Oh and uh, let us all pray for the people who may be hurt or maimed or crushed or something by falling buildings.
OK, good.
OK people, it's a joke, don't hurt me.
Ram prices have been going up since mid july, months before any earthquake. Only now after a few more companies started production has the price dropped.
While Roblimo's heart is in a good place, I'm losing more sleep over the victims of bad governance/the resulting revolution in places like Columbia and Sierra Leon than the people affected by post-industrial Taiwan, which is coping well and will surely rebuild. On the other hand, alot of good innovation goes on over there, and they are our Brothers of technology in a sense... so many Americans didn't realize how dependent we are on all the high-tech components they produce until they started to be in short supply. Most of us wrongfully equate Taiwan with cheap plastic toys.
Boo!
There IS regulation you moron. US has regulations against dumping of RAM on the US market. This is to protect the US manufacturers.
So you want the govt to govern how low the price can as well as how high it can be set? Hrm..doesn't sound too capitalistic to me.
yah your telling me... when prices where about half of the size of ram I couldnt resist, and bought 256 megs :) and looking at things now.. Im kinda glad I bought that ram then..
Ooops, I'm sorry to said that earthquakes in Taiwan and RAM pricing don't have a lot in common. RAM prices are going up simply because every major DRAM manufacturers decided this summer to slash at least 30% of their production and to empty their warehouse.
Yes, it's a cartel! Yes, the current shortage is 100% artificial! Yes, it's probably illegal under any law in any civilized country. No, it has NOTHING to do with Taiwan "facetious" geology!
So what ? OPEC's countries have done that for oil in the 70s with well known effects. They did it again this year (100% raise). DRAM manufacturers just understood they can play along the same lines.
Here's my nightmare scenario: China develops and successfully tests a long-range ICBM with the capability to deliver a nuclear warhead. China steps up their rhetoric to the US -- a Chinese official comments that the US won't defend Taiwan because it's not worth losing Washington or New York (they've already threatened Los Angeles in exactly this way). The US, instead of promising to completely vaporize any country that initiates a nuclear conflict, backs down (not that I disagree with this -- it's not good to play macho with nukes).
Another quake or other major natural disaster hits Taiwan. The Taiwanese armed forces mobalize in another massive rescue effort. Meanwhile, the Chinese army starts to move. The Taiwanese navy reacts to try and hold the line, but is overwhelmed by an overwhelming wave of Chinese MiGs combined with an all-out assault by Chinese warships. Taiwan's US-built gear has the technical edge, but can't balance out the enormous numerical advantages of the Chinese fleet combined with the disorganization caused by the latest natural disaster. Taiwan makes a desperate plea to the US, but the President reluctantly ignores it and orders US navel assets in the area out of the war zone.
With the Taiwanese navy rusting at the bottom of the ocean and the US naval forces taken out of the conflict, the Chinese land a few thousand troops who secure a beachhead and hurredly lay down an airstrip. Within a month, the remaining Taiwanese loyalists are fighting a heroic but doomed door-to-door battle against a half million Chinese troops who made the short hop from the mainland in commercial 747s, commendeered at the Bejing airport the day the conflict begins.
The US lodges a protest and pushes a condemnation through the UN, but doesn't dare cut off trade with its Most Valued Nation trading partner. Soon, the Chinese are dug into Taiwan. Now, maybe they have the tech resources to rebuild and man the fabs -- maybe we'd even provide them with such. However, after the battle the infrastructure bears out the extent of the damage. Like Yugoslavia, it'll take years (not weeks or months) to rebuild, in some cases from scratch.
So, I'd suggest that (a) companies start looking for a more stable place to begin gradually moving to, or (b) the US get behind Taiwan big-time. Otherwise, the tech industry will be looking at a crisis that makes this look like a stroll in the park.
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Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Forget the RAM. You need to upgrade your sarcasm parser. It seems just a little out of synch.
---
icq:2057699
seumas.com
whaaooo back up fer a sec. Comparing CNN and /. as news sources?!?! While I'm sure this is very flatering to Rob and the crew at the compound, Do you really compare them? Let's take a moment to contrast.
CNN kinda lame
CNN thousands of reporters world wide providing video in real time back to a distributed control center
CNN world leaders turning to them for real-time news and insightful analysis
CNN Synonymous with fact, truth, what's going on
Hey wait!. . maybe /. and CNN are comparable?!?! ;)
Actually, I was listening to "Weekend All Things Considered" on National Public Radio yesterday, and apparently we're actually having _fewer_ than the average number of 7.0+ quakes this year. It just seems like more because they've been close together and in relatively populated areas. I mean, how much news is it if a 7.5 quake strikes in the boonies of Elbonia? Not much.
---
When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout. --Robert A. Heinlein
[clueless gothboy holier than thou non-america impression]
Ooohhh, look at me, I'm pretending to give a fuck about people, when deep down inside I'm kicking myself for not buying 128meg DIMMs when they were cheap. I'm sure you'd pay 10 times as much per DIMM without complaining if those companies paid cheap labor in America. How noble of you to arbitrate who gets a job and who doesn't.
[end impression]
I stopped giving a shit long ago. Nothing really suprises or upsets me. I actually got a chuckle from the columbine incident. Kind of like "I told you so". You keep pushing someone and eventually they snap.
Is that not what we did for Japan after WWII in the 40's. Look where that has us now?
The first point I'm going to make has been iterated before, but for the sake of completeness I'll say it again: Intel forced prices of RAM to go up. Not the earthquake. It's because of Intel's move to go straight to RAMBUS. So production of SDRAM will be killed. The earthquake raising prices is a common misconception.
:/ But still I feel for the taiwanese people. I have relatives there...
Second: The big RAM makers aren't in Taiwan. Toshiba and NEC are in JAPAN! Taiwan's importance is as a cheap distro center which can be bypassed.
Last... I'm from southern california... I guess I'm just calious towards these earthquakes.
RAM prices may be high, but you wouldn't have to worry if ya just steal it like I do! Muhahahah! ;)
as i sit here on monday night, still trying to get in touch with my parents in the Mojave Desert after the weekend's 7.1, I've got to say that I don't find this even remotely humerous. actually like most of the posts to this story, and the one before it, it's mildly tasteless at best.
Well, our 7.x (I thought it was 7.0, not 7.3) produced insignificant damage largely because the epicentre was so far away from us - I think it was something like 100 miles away.
Funny thing is that while it was happening, the shaking felt as bad as Northridge - I was really surprised to see no damage in my apartment after the quake.
D
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The power here is pretty much all back now. They were rationing for a while, which was not fun. They actually put up a schedule as to what time they were going to cut 'yer power.
:-(
The new quakes did much of nothing. We have been getting after shocks that big since the quake.
What is bad is that we have a cold spell here right now, and people are still living in tents.
-- I doubt, therefore I might be.
That the current RAM price has got very little to do with the earthquake in Taiwan. RAM has been going up in price since at least May this year. The reason that RAM has increase is because of a number of factors. Alot of DRAM makers have been cutting there production (to increase the RAM price on purpose), there has been alot of DRAM makers making RAMBUS chips, but then they found some kind of technical problems with RAMBUS so all that RAM is now useless. So yes the earthquake in Taiwan did have some effect on prices, but it is no where near the extent that everyone appears to believe.
heh, you really didn't say much yourself and sort of left yourself in the middle. What happened to being pratical? Do you think others will think less of you because you care more about ram prices than lives?
DAMN STRAIGHT WE NEED OUR FRENCH FRIES. Reminds of the conan o'brian scitt with the fake bill clinton lip moving picture. Sadam surrounded his palace with mcdonanld's and bubba was like nOOOOOOOOO imagine all the fries that will go to waste.
First of all, don't flame me for not expressing sympathy. I do indeed feel a great deal of it, but that's not what this post is about.
It's just that there seem to be a whole lot of strong quakes hitting populated areas this year. Turkey, Taiwan (for the second time now), California... perhaps it's just that they're only getting media attention this year, but it looks to me like there's been an unusual amount of seismic activity over heavily-populated or heavily-industrialized areas.
Honest question: anyone know why this might be (no "it's a sign of the coming Apocalypse" please...)? Or is it just the media deciding that they want to cover lots of earthquakes this year, and the number really isn't unusual?
At the risk of seeming insensitive to the real damage the Taiwan quakes have caused, mainly to life, limb, and dwelling, I'd like to briefly address the issue of ludicrous RAM prices.
:(
If you recall, RAM prices got to sky-high levels quite a bit before Taiwan's first quake, and in fact weren't shaken much by the quake itself. The *real* cause behind the prices are TARIFFS. Yes tariffs, those ever-present enemies of free trade. You see, Micron, the only American DRAM manufacturer afaik, filed a complaint with the US International Trade Commission claiming that the Japanese companies were "dumping", that is, selling their wares at ultra-low (below cost) prices in order to drive competitors out (this is what MS did with IE). How big are these tariffs? Looks like between 8 and ***69*** PERCENT! So that 128MB stick that would've been wholesaled for about, I dunno $50-$70?, a few months ago, would have a tariff of as much as $35-$48 slapped on it.
(I saw this at ArsTechnica, the URL they gave is http://www.ebnonline.com/story/OEG19991014S0009L)
Don't ya just love big government?
http://www.lp.org
MoNsTeR
Taiwan, unlike Turkey or any of the other poor countries that cannot afford to take care of their earthquake victims, is a wealthy country, with a tremendous cash surplus. Donating money to the Taiwan Earthquake Victims Relief Fund just saves the government of Taiwan those expenditures. It would be like Germans donating money to Florida hurricane victims. Commendable, but not really needed. Instead, donate to UNESCO or another worthwhile organization.
while you are all worried about rising RAM prices, I am worried about the rising possibility that the Biblical end of the world is approaching..
One can only hope that the end of the time of people preaching about the Biblical end of the world coming is nigh.
Next year we're going to be forgotton gods for the post-millenial Burning Man confab in the desert. Maybe we'll get some quakes during the event - or maybe Mount Rainier will blow up in Seattle while I'm gone.
One can only hope.
Will in Seattle
It's not fair to blame /. for focusing on taiwanese quakes because RAM factories are located there.
Every single foreign news story is heavily dependent on the country and its economic profit value to the US. the 2nd important factor is the country's relationship to US citizens.
To give some blatantly obvious examples -
1) More people were killed in East Timor than Kosovo (per day, and in total), but it hardly got any coverage. Why? Europe is important economically to US interests, and the public is easily suckered into believing human tragedy stories fed to them. Secondly, East Timorese aren't white, and genocide against them would be difficult to make the headline news, as opposed to European tragedies (just being blunt).
2) Iraq. Everybody knows it was about oil. Anybody who thinks otherwise is a moron. However, any reporter who covers US atrocities there is commiting career suicide (much like the reporters whose patriotism was questioned when they ran truthful stories about Vietnam). I wouldn't be surprised if this post got moderated down just because I mentioned this point.
3) Earthquake coverage - nations which are friendly to the US get major aid and news coverage, irrespective of how many get killed. Countries like china don't get much attention when this happens. Indeed, the most horrible earthquake of the century was in Tangshan (1976), with 750,000 dead - difficult even to imagine.
4) Rwanda had a genocide with millions dying without any attention, whereas Kosovo got massive exposure with thounsands being killed. If humanitarian compassion is such a major concern, why do people's eyes glaze over in boredom when Rwanda is mentioned? They are human too, but I bet even the people posting about insensitivity towards earthquake victims don't particularly care. It's just rwanda's bad luck that it's located in sub-saharan africa.
In summary, compassion falls victim to the same rule as retail store profit - location, location, location.
Then only RAM prices in the US would be increasing. There are not, the price of RAM has skyrocketed everywhere. In Australia the price of RAM has doubled over the last few months. So it is not due to tariffs.
For the uninformed:
Magnitude 4 and below you are lucky if you feel at all unless you're standing on it.
Magnitude 5: Gets your attention, but more of a jiggle than a jolt; might actually break a few things.
Magnitude 5.5: Maybe worry about that, --more than a jiggle.
Magnitude 6: Get in the doorway and pray the building doesn't collapse.
Magnitude 7,8+: Hmm... What's worse, this or a small atomic bomb?
whoa... this was a joke... why is it moderated down so much?
I hadn't thought of the RAM price issue in a Sino-Taiwan war; but then the point I'd like to make is that RAM prices shouldn't be people's first concern if something like a war or a quake happens in Taiwan. There are real, live people who have to go to work, make these RAM chips, and feed their families. If a disaster befalls Taiwan, Japan, China, Silicon Valley, or anywhere else, RAM prices should be our least concern. What about the people who live there?
About that humour thing. Lemme tell a few jokes at your relative's funeral, I'm sure that will make everyone happy! The humor most people used in this incident was a mocking, heartless humour. It certainly wasn't the nice good ol' "good times" humour.
People who turn these things into humour distort what they fundamentally are.. AND what they made it to be is something for us to laugh at the expense of other's and their misery.
Forgive me for not laughing when folks are dying out there alright?
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Karma: -1,257,423
if you can't beat 'em might as well join 'em
I never said it was based solely on your age. I merely mentioned the fact that because you are 15 I believe your point of view will changed. I'm not patronizing you, I'm simply stating the fact that as people get older there point of view changes. And why I assumed you know nothing about the traumatized Taiwanese, is because you are not there, so you could not possibly know how they feel. If you were there you would have said so. I been to the funeral of my wife(close enough relative for you?)! And guess what, my friends and I were making jokes. We were making fun of here, we were mocking her. We did this because it made us miss her less it made us feel that she was still alive and was just about to yell at us, just like she had always done when we were mucking up. I was later told this is a very health reaction to the lose of a loved one. So yes I will forgive you for not laughing when people die, so long as you forgive people who are laughing when people die.
The problem is, the ROC (Taiwan) has always maintained the fantasy that it and not Beijing was the rightful ruler of China. Taipei and Beijing have ALWAYS agreed Taiwan was part of China and that there could be no independent "Republic of Taiwan". I seem to remember back in 1996 (when China was "testing" missiles near Taiwan and the US sent 2 aircraft carriers as a warning) the demonstrations outside of AIT telling the US to stay out of Taiwan's affairs and allow Taiwan to unify with China. Oh yeah, 2 years ago, the Taiwan's Ministry of Defense announced that after one year, they had only been able to get 12 (!!!!) volunteers for ROTC. (and don't give me any crap about all the men have to go in the army.....there's a big difference between some guy who is drafted for only 18 months and a professional who's in for 6+years). Seem's to me like the Taiwanese are more worried about getting someone else to protect them than doing it themselves. BTW, I'm also in the IT industry in Taiwan.
Firstly:---> Columbine dropout? Yea That's sensitive.
B:----> The Quakes and damage I've been seeing are too horrific to think about so I go into a state of denial. My brain just kinda pushes it out of the way. "That could never happen here." and "Gee... is it going to rain tomorrow?"
Linux is only free if your time has no value. Windows is only free if you threaten to use Linux.
Anyone else see some corrolaries between RAM prices and gas prices? I just saw gas below 60 cents/litre today for the first time in months. I think both are ripping the consumer off because we've no choice.
Wow... 60 cents? Those metrical-speaking countries must have a real good deal with OPEC. I usually pay closer to $1.30 for mine lately. Maybe the US really should switch over to that there funny-system...
For the humor-impaired: thpbpbpbpbpbt!
Communication is only possible between equals
OK - if the quake was a fake, it was a damn good one. I live in Taiwan. Last night's twin quakes had ME running for cover. Lee Kai Wen Lee_Kai_Wen@hotmail.com
Our geek refined superiority complex and machoism has gotten in the way of what is RIGHT and what is WRONG.
Any lives lost is wrong and how most of you can turn this into humor or justify it by hardware price increases is disgusting. You people are morally disgusting. I'm sure none of you would like to see your friends or family with a several ton brick crushing them while they slowly bleed to death when rescue teams classify their situation as secondary to the kid with a steal bar lodged in his chest.
"Oh no! Look mother isn't going to make those spectacular cookies anymore!"
Being 15 years old I'm glad I still have some compassion left inside of me. I can't think of what will happen to me when I turn older.
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Karma: -1,257,423
if you can't beat 'em might as well join 'em
I'm sorry, but.. I just love the Rams more than I love you
BTW: it takes a real man to name call what, 340 million people, as a whole as "filthy pigs ". Especially anonymously. You are such a pillar of good non-predjudiced behavior, you. I wish all the millions of us americans could be more like you
Many structures already weakened by the initial quake are in danger of being brought down by even a relatively minor aftershock.
To date, we have had well over 25,000 aftershocks. A few have been big enough to cause additional damage.
I was fortunate. The apartment building I was living in was damaged, but managed to stand. I spent nearly a month in a temporary shelter before I was able to find a new place to live.
I'm glad where you live a 7.1 is no big deal. Some of us aren't so lucky.
Lee Kai Wen
Lee_Kai_Wen@hotmail.com
A lot of the manufacturing that used to be done in Taiwan was moved to factories on the Chinese mainland, because of the lower cost of the work-force there. It's R&D, Marketing and Sales that tends to be done in Taiwan.
At least this is how it used to be 4 years ago when I left the industry there.
That crazy guy was right, the particle accelerator really did release a small black hole! Even as we speak it's sitting in the Earth's core slowly absorbing matter, causing the Earth's crust to gradually settle, casuing all these 6.0 and worse earthquakes! I only hope we don't run out of plywood and old tires before we finish building the spaceship! just kidding
Don't know if any one has posted any donation information yet, so I thought I'd share the info from Tom's Hardware page (sorry Tom):
Donations
Those who wish to make a monetary contribution to earthquake relief efforts in Taiwan may transfer their donations to one of the accounts below:
Custody Account, Ministry of the Interior,
ROC The International Commercial
Bank of China
ICBCTWTP007
00709085418
The Red Cross Society of the ROC National Headquarter Hua Nan Commercial Bank
HNBKTWTP121
102510021999
Cheers
The problem with this is that we need to carry on with our lives. If we all took time out to grieve for every tragic death in the world, we wouldn't have time to do anything else.
And after all, in a way, we owe it to the dead to live our own lives well while we still have it.
So, sure, I think it's tragic that all these people died, but what the hell am I going to do? Just sit here and cry about it? What good does that do? Maybe I could be an activist, and go advocate better building codes, but short of that, the best thing I can do is carry on with my own life, and my own life just happens to involve RAM prices, among other things. Just because there are tragic deaths doesn't mean that increased RAM prices don't ALSO affect people's happiness.
I live in Taiwan and work in the IT industry. Taiwan was hit by another couple of quakes last night, yes, but the damage was minimal to the areas that produce RAM and other IC devices. This should not effect RAM prices. The large US buyers (distributors and resellers) of RAM buy in two week slots (contracts). They place blanket orders for those two weeks at that given price. The SPOT price for RAM in Taiwan, went from 20 $USD per chip last week down to $10 per chip by the end of the week. This means that pricing in the U.S. SHOULD come down soon, but only after distributors and resellers get rid of all their exisiting stock. When the SPOT pricing for chips goes down to $5 per chip, we will be back where we were before the power outages and earthquake rocked the IC industry here. Yes, there are alot of other device prices that were affected, but this is minimal. This is mostly because the largest foundry in the world (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Corp., or TSMC) was up and running 9 days after the earquake, at full capacity. The other main reason is that 95% of these devices are on CONTRACT pricing only, as there is no spot market for non-comoditized ICs. This means that the foundries take the loss and their Taiwan stock price goes down, and they may raise pricing for FUTURE contracts, which will not affect the consumer market for several months, if ever. As for the posts asking about aid to Taiwan, rest assured Taiwan will recover quickly. There were massive funds raised for disaster aid right here on the island. If you REALLY want to do something, write your senator and tell he/she that US - SINO policy is BULLSHIT and that the US should give 100% support to an INDEPENDENT TAIWAN, and not a "ONE CHINA - TWO SYSTEMS" policy. CHINA ACTUALLY REFUSED TO LET THE UN AND ANY OTHER NATIONS PROVIDE AID TO TAIWAN IN THE BEGGINNING, AND ONLY AFTER IMMENSE PRESSURE DID THEY LET "SOME" AID INTO TAIWAN. TAIWAN IS SOVEREIGN, AND PLEASE TELL YOUR SENATOR THAT THE US SHOULD BACK TAIWAN UNDER ANY AND ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. BELEIVE ME, YOU THINK AN EARTHQUAKE IS BAD, JUST WAIT UNTIL CHINA DECIDES TO RAID TAIWAN (WHICH IT WILL DO IF THE US DOES NOT SUPPORT TAIWAN 100%). RAM PRICES, PC'S WOULD ALL SKYROCKET PROBABLY NEVER TO RETURN TO EARTH.
Real men don't need signitures!!!
Thank you - yes. Aftershocks ARE earthquakes. Three of the more than 25,000 aftershocks we've had since the "big one" were big enough in their own right to be included in the top ten earthquakes to hit Tawain this century.
In fact, just as I started typing this, I felt another aftershock - number 25 thousand and one.
Lee Kai Wen
Lee_Kai_Wen@hotmail.com
Why don't you try examining some actual data. I suggest you begin at http://www.usgs.gov, which has numerous links to global and regional earthquake data. Medium (5.0) quakes happen all over the world all the time - like riot and revolution, we only notice when they might affect us economically.
Why not make the RAM in the US or Canada?
I live in Taichung, and I can say that it was easily the worst earthquake I will ever experience (though I lived in Hualien for over two years and got quakes/tremors every few weeks). There have been many aftershocks, I believe at least three > 6.0. Just last night there was a big tremor, which turned out to be a 5.0 in Hualien. That was the first in several days. Ordinarily, it is quite rare for there to be a noticeable tremor in Taichung. There are still people camping on the streets, and many residential areas are swelled with people in from the apartments. Taiwan is an affluent nation, though not everyone is affluent (some less so now than before 921), and it is the poor people living in inaccessible mountain villages that got it the worst. I've been to Tung Shih/Dong Shr, one of the worst-hit cities, and the skyline is just ravaged coming into the city; buildings toppled, reduced to ruins, whole rows of houses with first floors fallen in and a floor lower, huge buildings leaning at 45 degree angles, intact car hoods sticking out from under, the rest squashed to 3 inches like a soda can, etc. Taiwan has always been very resilient. For those of you worried about your RAM prices (shame on you!) it's expected that Taiwan's semiconductor production will be normal six months. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the superficial damage of the earthquake was covered up in three years (obviously not everything, a mountain near Sun Moon Lake got it's peak remodeled for instance), but for many individuals, it will be with them all their lives. Taiwan's biggest problem now is not funding (from what I can see), it is the kind of personal problems that individuals have and the work that people need to do. If you do want to donate to quake victims, you could see your local church (most churches, particularly denominational ones, will accept relief funds, how they dispense them is up to each one), or donate via ICRT at www.icrt.com.tw (not sure how they use it) or via Morrison Academy www.mca.tc.edu.tw (they use the money to help out individuals in need, send teams with supplies to personally deliver, etc.). Nate
From what I've heard from a computer marketing guy in Taiwan, it'll take probably a year before they can completely recover to what their pre-quake production level. Hopefully the new quakes aren't going to do even more damage.
I had email from Taiwan that said
"... got to stop. Power is about to be cut again..."
Apparently the power supply there is erratic too.
back to watching my Kaffe compile in the silly dos window.
Alvin
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In a place with a lot of earthquakes, like California or Taiwan, a 5.x quake isn't news. It's not going to interfere with chip production. It probably didn't even get most people out of bed.
Note that the photo accompanying the article was a file photo. It was probably taken last month.
And the brethren went away edified.
I built a dozen machines last year and bought an average of 128MB's of RAM for each machine. I had intended to buy a couple machines for my home network to run Linux and Solaris on this month, but there's no way in a Silicon hell that I'm dishing out $320 for the same RAM I could purchase for $165 in March.
Maybe I'm just being a greedy consumer, but the doubling of the cost of RAM is costing hard-drive vendors, case vendors, motherboard vendors, etc. I'll resort to a type-writer and carbon-copy sheets (can you even buy that stuff any more?) before I'll pay almost 50% of the cost of my computer for a stick of RAM.
A lot of junk comes out of Taiwan and (not to mention cameras, televisions, etc) -- yet the only massive increase in cost to the consumer is in RAM? This seems as suspicious as this past year when oil companies cried huge tears over one or two small refinery fires and squeezed every last cent they could out of the country by claiming that those few small fires nearly destroyed the bedrock of their industry.
I wonder when the politicians are going to lobby congress for RAM regulation like they do with everything else? I'm sure it's only a matter of time. Perhaps when the soccer-moms start whining because they can't afford little Timmy's braces because they had to spend the last thousand bucks to setup a new machine so mom and dad could ignore each other and hot-chat with recluses on IRC and AOL?
Of course, if I'd just built these computers a couple months ago, I'd be shrugging my shoulders and asking what the big deal is. I suppose it's all a matter of where one stands at the moment he or she complains.
---
icq:2057699
seumas.com
Quick, everyone, place your orders for RAM tonight before it goes up in price tomorrow! :)
Actually, it might not be such a bad idea... I just checked pricewatch and it's only $175/128MB PC100 DIMM... they might raise the price tomorrow yet still honor orders made tonight, perhaps. Worth a shot if you need RAM, anyway... myself, I'm waiting 'til [hopefully] prices drop to around $0.50/MB again. That was nice.
Remember: Only a ninja can kill another ninja.
The Red Cross' International Response Fund goes to this sort of thing. Here's an article about what they did to help during Taiwan quake in September.
It can't be that bad, I think it's being a bit overblown .... paradoxically the chip proto I had in fab in Taiwan was hurried up by the quake .... I suspect they may have lost wafers that were in process when the quake hit but the ones that weren't actively being processed are probably OK - more likely their problems are more that their employees have a lot of other stuff on their minds and they're more worried about toxic spills
OK, 2 points:
#1, Why are prices so affected by this one location? Surely RAM is made in more places then this. This leads to:
#2, If this is the case, why is this world putting most of the high-tech fabrication centers on one little seismically active island?
Now, I hardly think #1 should be the case. There's no way that so so much RAM could come from here that Supply & Demand would drive the prices SO high. There has to be some artifical inflation to it.
RAM prices won't be affected by these quakes; the quakes didn't do anything. This isn't really something that needed to have been put on /.-- all it's gonna do is set off a couple hundred random people who didn't read the article flaming the poster for daring to examine the practical, direct consequences of an event in which people were hurt.. except, nobody was hurt this time. it's ok if roblimo gave more attention to electronics than to humans, because neither of these things were affected..
Those of you who actually have something to say, good luck being heard.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
how many people were killed/injured??? none so far as i can tell... why don't you READ the story before posting... that's generally a good idea anyway...
The major RAM producers in Taiwan recovered to full production capacity in 11 days after the last quake, and, until today at least, they were on schedule to "meet the demand" and even set record sales. See article . So, you have nothing to worry about. On the other had, those of us who worry about human life have >2,274 people (from the last quake alone) to think about.
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while you are all worried about rising RAM prices, I am worried about the rising possibility that the Biblical end of the world is approaching.. I am an agnostic, and I really don't believe anything that the Bible says, but when they start talking about all these natural disasters, and I constantly see earthquakes, new faults (in CA), etc, I begin to shit my pants...
It's probably the result of Burning Man.
/.
However, I noticed in the news that the Taiwan Quake is responsible for at least two stocks I own declaring lower quarterly earnings than expected. Both were tech stocks.
And, the news continues to say that PC deliveries, including those which would be used to replace any PCs that are not Y2K-compliant, are now more than 30 days backlogged due to the first Taiwan quake.
So it does belong on
Will in Seattle
>Anyone else see some corrolaries between RAM
...
>prices and gas prices? I just saw gas below 60
>cents/litre today for the first time in months.
>I think both are ripping the consumer off
>because we've no choice.
No choice? Of course you've got a choice
(1) Don't buy RAM
(2) Walk, cycle, or use public transport.
The choices might not be very palatable to some people ((2) might require relocating/changing jobs), but don't confuse that with not having a choice.
I'm waiting for prices to go to something sensible before getting a RAM upgrade. That's my choice.
Roy Ward.
Another thing which may slow the adoption of MSFT's W2K would be more expensive RAM. This encourages people to run on lower RAM systems, on which Linux is a more optimal solution.
However, more expensive computer prices overall are a wash, as this also makes the OS portion of the total price less obvious.
Will in Seattle
Typically earthquakes in one region have ramifications in other regions along fault lines. It takes awhile for the everything to settle back down again, and in the meantime, you will see earthquakes in the appropriate areas.
I think this is just heightened news sensitivity.
This site tells me there were 1183 earthquakes in California this week.
Thank God! I thought I was the only one that had noticed this.
The quadrupling of post-quake memory prices is affecting the profits of US PC companies for the upcoming Christmas season. Look at Dell.
Back in July/August, I could get a 64 MB DIMM for (canadian prices) $69. From there it went to $79, then $99, and then $130. And then it just skyrocketed to $200+ and then the quake hit (peaked at about $269). Since then it's slowly been going down - about $239 now. This is all for 64 MB of RAM, folks.
There were some theories floating around that distributors were holding back, or that perhaps RIMM (Rambus) production was causing the lower numbers, or any number of things. Personally I think it's probably a combination of greed (christmas season coming up, after all), lower numbers (Rambus, demand) and a little bit of the earthquake - though that might have just been an excuse for RAM distributors to jack the price up.
Anyone else see some corrolaries between RAM prices and gas prices? I just saw gas below 60 cents/litre today for the first time in months. I think both are ripping the consumer off because we've no choice.
[clueless american impression]
But how will it help RAM prices if we donate money to those who were devastated by the earthquakes? Maybe we should donate to the American corporations that use those countries for cheap labor to build their chips, instead?
[end impression]
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icq:2057699
seumas.com
1) my friend came back from Taiwan two weeks ago, he has said since the initial quake and when he left, there have been 10,000 (true) after shocks since. After shocks and earth quakes in their sense may nto be the same, but the consequences are.
2) quit bitching about RAM proces. Swollow it and think of increased prices as a part of a contribution into rebuilding Taiwan.
"I just can't sit while people are saying nonsense in a meeting without saying it's nonsense" J Watson, Sci Am 288:(4)51
A someone already said, this won't
even wake anyone up. Anything in
taiwan that can be broken by =7
is already broken. We had a 7.1
night before last and nobody broke
a sweat over it. Earthquakes are a
highly overrated danger unless you
live in a poorly built building. Even
then it has to be a poorly built building
that's less that ~20 years old or it would
have fallen down by now.
On the other hand there are the annoying
things like my brick wall that I haven't
yet fixed from the Northridge quake and the
fact that I own a little stock in Nvidia and their
stock gets whacked everytime someone in Taiwan
sneezes.
garyr
-- your Web browser is Ronald Reagan
i thought carmack said no more quakes until the full release, or something.
It may seem that there have been too many earthquakes of late - Turkey, Taiwan, california, etc.
Is this some kind of weird anamoly, a sign of the apocalypse about to come? Actually, according to seismologists, we have had far FEWER quakes than normal so far this year. It's just a coincidence that they tended to befall heavily populated areas, thus drawing a lot of attention. Apparently, there have been only 10 of the 18 major quakes expected every year, or something like that.
Ok, time to go pick up pizza. Mmmm....pizza.
L.
I'm game. gimmie a call.
jmott@rice.edu
:)
-I go to Rice, so figure out my email address
Not that I am making light of it, nor am I writing off those who have to live through the earthquakes, but how do we know that these earthquakes are really happening? It could all just be a ploy to bring the prices of ram up. Governments have done worse things for less in the past.
Not that I am a conspiracy theory whacko, but I have seen some really good fx. Can we trust the media? Nope, they have already proved that over and over again.
Not to mention that the ram fabs aren't near the top of the 'worlds greediest people' list.
-- DrZaius - Minister of Sciences and Protector of the Faith
It's time to go into business selling recycled memory chips! Oh that old SIMM won't work in that new DIMM slot? Your cusotmers won't know it until they get the chips shipped to them (false advertising).
That is when you close down, take the money and run.
EC
EverCode
A quake hit Taiwan, lots of people can get hurt, yet the first thing some imbecils think about is about RAM prices. That's discusting! Some of you may want to move your asses out of the chairs and do something other than computing. Some of you are devoid of feelings.
Nothing was damaged last time either and prices went thru the roof. There was a percieved loss, or enough of one that the guy in pricing decided to jack it up. The non-Taiwaneese followed suit, becuase who can miss out on a change to double the price of your goods and keep selling them.
P.S. It's amazing how many people post before they read the articles mentioned.
Quake 3 is the same stupid first person shooter with lame weapons, etc. I love it when Linux blowhards rave about Windows games just to beat on Mac users. Get a life. It's clear to everyone that Apple's graphics cards are a generation behind Wintels for gaming. Oh well. If your computer life is gaming buy a Dreamcast or run Windows. Cause the bug riddled X crap driver hell of Linux or the slightly slower Mac 3D performance aint gonna cut it for you.
Gee, is the world coming to an end or what? First we got those Lunar and Solar Eclipses two weeks apart last July-August, then the Turkish earthquake, and then another quake in Taiwan, and then another in Southern California (Richter 7.0 but luckily for those people who live there it didn't do much damage). Well, I have the sinking feeling that the next quake is going to hit my sorry country (just south of Taiwan!). The last was nine years ago. It's the millenium; who knows what may happen next?
--
Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
but john carmack just said there won't be another one until retail?
Personally I'm not too concerned about the computer bit of Y2K (except the old legacy systems in places of power in the military/utility installations) - I'm *most* concerned about the roving bands of drunken lunatics hyped on a combination of "the party of the millenium" and the "doomsday predictions" wandering about.
:)
:/ But then I find the "if it doesn't directly affect me/my lifestyle I don't care" attitude to be pretty offensive :/
This drunken lunatic is thinking they might be staying in for the turnover - probably on the computer. Beat that for geek!
ob_topic: I _do_ think it is pretty offensive that the dominant "concern" regarding the Taiwan quake is the effect on RAM prices
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
.
From /. Tiawan
October 17, 1999 Web posted at: 9:36 a.m. HKT (0136 GMT)
CALIFORNIA,USA (/.) A magnatude 6 earth quake has rocked the west coast of the United States causing a train to derail and injuring hundreds. . . .I hope the McDonalds headquarters wasn't hit. If those fat lazy americans don't get there french frys and intern hummers, they start acting stupid (read: voting down non-proliferation treaties)
Roblimo, as usual, shows his rabid kangaroo tact dealing with news.
/.) is converging to the less common denominator, let's say 'National Enquirer'
/., troll and flamebait, all at same).
Frankly, I don't know how someone can complain about Katz, at least he writes better.
OTOH, are we so news-avid that even a 5.5 earthqake makes news? And CNN work is terrible: using a file picture, forgetting to say if time (midnight monday) is local, GMT or whatever...
This kind of news and the way they are managed make me think that american media (including CNN and
I'd better like to read about religious wars (Gnome vs. KDE, Linux vs. GNU/Linux), FUD or whatever.
Please, guys: original post should be moderated at least -3 (Offtopic in
Who cares.
I stumbled across a board of earthquake predictions the other day. These are based on various factors...some geologically based, some hunches, some more astrologically based. There were some startlingly accurate ones. (Incidently, if this site is at all accurate, the quakes in Taiwan may not be the tech industry's biggest worry...)
http://www.syzygyjob.com/Boards/predict ion/. Some posts of particular note: #1369, #1364, #1365 (not an actual prediction, in fact kinda skeptical sounding, but mentions almost the exact location of the quake - a region which was apparently discussed frequently.), and #1359. Note the times of these quakes...all were before the Hector quake which took place near 29 Palms/Joshua Tree on 10/16.
As for Y2K...well...if disaster (either electronic, natural, or God-sent) happens, it happens. While being prepared for a medium-case scenario (you can't prepare for a worst case scenario, which would be the world exploding or something :) is probably a good idea in general, stressing about it probably isn't going to do a heck of a lot of good.