Sorry, I should have added the qualifier 'per person'. I guess what I am getting at is that if NASA were to fund Energia (which they won't do for political reasons) the US could maintain 1 or 2 crew on the ISS for the period 2010 to 2014. This is something the soyuz is doing flawlessly atm.
With regard to the skateboard/minivan comparison, I can tell you right now that with this new comp, NASA is looking for a skateboard and not a minivan, so its a moot point. There is no way $500 mill and 4 years is going to get you any form of heavy lift. With regards to that, it is worth noting the issue with putting ISS components up there is that a lot of the future components were designed for the shuttle, something that is not easy to work around. Energia have heavy lift capability (zarya etc) but of course payloads must be designed with the booster in mind. This would apply to any lifter/component combination.
Lastly, safety. The important thing to note here is that you can say that the numbers ie individual deaths per person flown are similar - ie similar death rates, but you have to look at the developmental stages of the vehicles involved - half of the shuttle deaths have occured in the last 3 years and the rest in the last 20. Soyuz have not experienced a fatality for _35_ years. They ironed the bugs out. It is solid Russian engineering - 'built like a brick shithouse' (australian slang). Many space experts (and many amateurs like myself) know that the shuttle is an experimental/developmental vehicle. One that fell far short of its original design and engineering criteria due to funding/politicing. Yes it's awesome, it is fantastic - but I would fly the Soyuz 50 times before I ever hopped on a shuttle:P
How this relates to the parent: the simple and obvious answer is if it aint broke don't fix it. Yes, the shuttle is broke. The Soyuz is not. My point is that rather than just fund Energia to do what it does best, pride and politics would get in the way and the US would ignore the stable foundations that Soyuz has built. It all comes down to purpose - and that's where the spin comes into it: if the objective is to keep the ISS operational and Americans in space from 2010 to 2014, then you would be slightly lazy to suggest anything other than to continue flying Soyuz. If however, as we are lead to believe, that the objective is to stimulate private space enterprise, then there are many more prerequisites than a $500 mil. lottery with no foreseeable viable industry capable of sustaining itself. To truely invigorate private space enterprise, there are many fundamental things that need to change - such as having a viable business model whereby space is actually profitable.
Don't get me wrong, I wish to see space travel boom in my life time! I can't wait to buy my ticket on Virgin Galactic:P I follow Scaled Composites and Armadillo religously. I have read every book I can find on spaceflight. I wanted to be an astronaut/fireman. I just can't help but look at announcements like this with a grain of cycnicism with history in mind. Read 'Lost In Space' by Greg Klerkx...it gave me a much different view.
The sad thing is that for 20 mill a pop, you can contract Energia to fly soyuz/progress. Much cheaper, safer and reliable. But politics just get in the way of good science. If I were NASA I would buy the design and rights to manufacture it, but they never would because it aint made in the US.
As one who fuxxed school, never went to uni and then worked his way from kitchenhand to nightclub glassy to sound engineer to av engineer to control system programmer and system design engineer, I can offer this little piece of advice - your life is only limited by your desire and your willingness to try new things and explore.
I have had a great time doing silly things - girls, druqz, clubz n rock'n'roll. I now have a cool job and enough money to support my geekness. I never spent a cent on uni (almost everyone else here I know that went to uni is now paying horrible HECS fees and is getting paid a lot less than what they are worth.
I am no brainiac but I see that the world is pretty well...as we say in oz, rooted. IMHO if your interests and 'brainz' extend much beyond linux/php/pr0n/etc and into fundamental stuff like logic/descartes/quantum physics/astrophysics/'lectronics/philosophy/pr0n/e tc you will find this world (for the most part) to be a frustrating world of people too eager to follow the leader and not stand on the shouders of those that have gone before...However what makes life worthwhile are those fleeting flashes of genius you will see when you read that post on slashdot, read that comment in the source code, hear that speech, hear that song or just generally bear witness to the occassional brilliance of those other planet dwellers.
13. Open source development is based on the same system as the peer review system that has given us such wonderful things such as medicine, electricity, computers and a better understanding of our place in the universe. If that doesn't tell you - go get a lobotomy and your MCSE:)....if you uhhh haven't already done so....
Slashdot Mirror
Sorry, I should have added the qualifier 'per person'. I guess what I am getting at is that if NASA were to fund Energia (which they won't do for political reasons) the US could maintain 1 or 2 crew on the ISS for the period 2010 to 2014. This is something the soyuz is doing flawlessly atm.
:P
:P I follow Scaled Composites and Armadillo religously. I have read every book I can find on spaceflight. I wanted to be an astronaut/fireman. I just can't help but look at announcements like this with a grain of cycnicism with history in mind. Read 'Lost In Space' by Greg Klerkx...it gave me a much different view.
With regard to the skateboard/minivan comparison, I can tell you right now that with this new comp, NASA is looking for a skateboard and not a minivan, so its a moot point. There is no way $500 mill and 4 years is going to get you any form of heavy lift. With regards to that, it is worth noting the issue with putting ISS components up there is that a lot of the future components were designed for the shuttle, something that is not easy to work around. Energia have heavy lift capability (zarya etc) but of course payloads must be designed with the booster in mind. This would apply to any lifter/component combination.
Lastly, safety. The important thing to note here is that you can say that the numbers ie individual deaths per person flown are similar - ie similar death rates, but you have to look at the developmental stages of the vehicles involved - half of the shuttle deaths have occured in the last 3 years and the rest in the last 20. Soyuz have not experienced a fatality for _35_ years. They ironed the bugs out. It is solid Russian engineering - 'built like a brick shithouse' (australian slang). Many space experts (and many amateurs like myself) know that the shuttle is an experimental/developmental vehicle. One that fell far short of its original design and engineering criteria due to funding/politicing. Yes it's awesome, it is fantastic - but I would fly the Soyuz 50 times before I ever hopped on a shuttle
How this relates to the parent: the simple and obvious answer is if it aint broke don't fix it. Yes, the shuttle is broke. The Soyuz is not. My point is that rather than just fund Energia to do what it does best, pride and politics would get in the way and the US would ignore the stable foundations that Soyuz has built. It all comes down to purpose - and that's where the spin comes into it: if the objective is to keep the ISS operational and Americans in space from 2010 to 2014, then you would be slightly lazy to suggest anything other than to continue flying Soyuz. If however, as we are lead to believe, that the objective is to stimulate private space enterprise, then there are many more prerequisites than a $500 mil. lottery with no foreseeable viable industry capable of sustaining itself. To truely invigorate private space enterprise, there are many fundamental things that need to change - such as having a viable business model whereby space is actually profitable.
Don't get me wrong, I wish to see space travel boom in my life time! I can't wait to buy my ticket on Virgin Galactic
The sad thing is that for 20 mill a pop, you can contract Energia to fly soyuz/progress. Much cheaper, safer and reliable. But politics just get in the way of good science. If I were NASA I would buy the design and rights to manufacture it, but they never would because it aint made in the US.
doubles as a mirror for smurfs and _some_ teletubbies....
Do you know how much the US spends on WAR annually?!? If you dont then RTFM!
don't put this machine near your kids or anything - they might get assimilated...
As one who fuxxed school, never went to uni and then worked his way from kitchenhand to nightclub glassy to sound engineer to av engineer to control system programmer and system design engineer, I can offer this little piece of advice - your life is only limited by your desire and your willingness to try new things and explore.
I have had a great time doing silly things - girls, druqz, clubz n rock'n'roll. I now have a cool job and enough money to support my geekness. I never spent a cent on uni (almost everyone else here I know that went to uni is now paying horrible HECS fees and is getting paid a lot less than what they are worth.
I am no brainiac but I see that the world is pretty well...as we say in oz, rooted. IMHO if your interests and 'brainz' extend much beyond linux/php/pr0n/etc and into fundamental stuff like logic/descartes/quantum physics/astrophysics/'lectronics/philosophy/pr0n/e tc you will find this world (for the most part) to be a frustrating world of people too eager to follow the leader and not stand on the shouders of those that have gone before...However what makes life worthwhile are those fleeting flashes of genius you will see when you read that post on slashdot, read that comment in the source code, hear that speech, hear that song or just generally bear witness to the occassional brilliance of those other planet dwellers.
13. Open source development is based on the same system as the peer review system that has given us such wonderful things such as medicine, electricity, computers and a better understanding of our place in the universe. If that doesn't tell you - go get a lobotomy and your MCSE :) ....if you uhhh haven't already done so....