" The IT industry is just another industry with shares, stockholders, filings, profits and losses. Money is what counts."
Actually the IT industry is different in that it has probably least amount of regulation of any large industry. Your typical pen or lighter has more regulations that apply to it then your code. The product is not regulated, the people who design or produce the product do not have to be licensed or even degreed. The people who implement don't need to be bonded or insured in any way.
If you ask me the IT industry needs to grow up and be like all other industries. That means making sure the people who write and implement code have proper training and insurance. In short it means being held responsible for your actions like any plumber or doctor would be.
BTW why hasn't anybody sued MS for malpractice yet?
THis case has exposed the ugly underbelly of the American legal system to geeks like me. It's been two years and a date for trial hasn't even been set yet!.
When I write code I test it. I throw random and unexpected input at my code to see if it breaks and if it does I fix it.
The americal legal system is also code isn't it? What would happen if you throw 1000 perfectly innocent people into the legal system? How many of them would come out of it? How many would go broke in the process? How many would lose thier jobs or families in the process? Would it make a difference if they were black or hispanic or arab? I think we all know the answer to this question and the answer is ugly and sad.
Why hasn't anybody tested the legal code like we test programs?
"Again. I am proven right. You claim MS is some unstoppable monster who kills its partners. Here is proof otherwise."
Mmm how are you proven right? MS stole Eolas technology and got sued. They are still fighting the case but at worst they will pay 500 million which is just a small percentage of the money they made from stolen technology.
"Come up with 5 complaints you have about MS's ethics in the last 5 years"
When I was growing up I was thought that lying, cheating and stealing was wrong. Since MS does these things just about every day I guess they are unethical in my book.
I realize however not everybody has the same sense of right and wrong that I do. For many like you it's perfectly OK to do anything and everything as long as you are trying to make profit.
Virtually no democratic candidate backs an amendment to the constitution. Although many don't favor gay marriage virtually all of them are for civil unions.
If you think there is no difference between republicans and democrats on this matter you are plain old ignorant.
If you are gay or know and care about gay people and still vote for a republican you are just stupid.
Wow. That's all you got? They left the sports game field. Wake me up when they close the xbox division and stop developing games.
"OF course they do. That's point of competition. I am in business. I intend to destroy every competitor I can. "
Ah now it's clear. You do not have any morals either. You knwo those things your mother tried to teach you like obeying the law and following your inner sense of morals and ethics.
"Go research Eolas and Veritas and see how each got MS for over $500 million."
Yes. MS stole their property. They sued and won and court and got some money. In the case of Eolas it's still in court. People who work at MS are theives.
"Any new charges will have to be retried from scratch."
MS is getting more desparate every day. In their desparation they will continue to try and steal other peoples technologies and get sued. Pretty soon people will dirty for using their products and that will be the beginning of the end. Of course there are still cases in europe and japan to deal with too.
I think people should make a "ethical software" branding like "dolphin safe tuna". That way we can educate the consumer not to buy software from unethical companies and make the world a better place.
What? Where do you get your information from the MS campus? I have never heard so much shit.
either way you still didn't answer my question. What MS competitor beat MS at anything ever? MS destroys companies. If it does not destroy them outright it leaves them crippled. It also loves to sign partnership agreements and then backstabs their "friends" by stealing their technologies and customers.
Ms is ruthless and is on a rampage. The DOJ could not stop them and I doubt anything short of a nuclear bomb in redmond would. I bet even that would only slow them down for a little while.
"Why gecko? So we can find ourselves in a situation where one popular browser's (or rending engine) tics and weirdness dictates how to write webpages like IE does now?"
I don't know about you but i'd be all for writing moz specific web pages (especially in XUL). Why?
Well just hearing MS execs whine about it would be enough really.
The number one reason might be some sort of a legal action from MS. Ms has gooogle in thier sights and google knows this. I just don't see them taking that risk no matter how small it might be. There is just no business reason to take a risk of being sued by a company with an army of lawyers when moz is free and open source.
As for ease of app development I'd say XUL kicks MSHTML any day.
Personally I don't see how any gay person could possibly be a republican in this day and age. What else in your life could be more important then having the right to marry the person you love and build a family.
Besides it's not like the republicans are for smaller govt or fiscal responsibility these days anyway.
I am asking this question seriously. If there is a gay republican out there. Why are you a republican? These people have called you sick and diseased. Are willing to amend the most scared document of our country to make sure you can never have the same right that they have. They also believe ardently that you are not worthy to defend your own country. They also believe that there should be a whole slew of jobs you should be qualified for including teaching. They believe people should be able to discriminate against you in housing too.
"Yes, pretenses he used are NOW shown to be false, but who cares? CIA reports, british intelligence, pentagon sources, etc believed Iraq was a threat and had WMD's."
There were lots of people who did not believe that. Bush didn't hear them when they talked. These people included the actual inspectors on the ground BTW.
Even if the CIA and the british intelligence did believe it (I highly doubt that, they wanted to invade iraq and therefore made that shit up) there were better ways to deal with that then to kill tens of thousands of people and install a CIA agent as your puppet dictator.
Name one US representitive or congressman who does not belong to either of the judeo christian religions. There are more muslims in this country then jews and yet not one muslim congress critter. There are probably more atheists then either one of those religions and yet nobody in congress will admit to being one.
"They learn from their mistakes and their competetor's victories."
What competititor's victories? Does anybody have a victory against MS? I can't think of one. The best you can hope for when competing against MS is to survive in a much smaller form.
And you are so much smarter then the rest of us. One wonders why you insist on heanging out with slimy sutpid ass nicompoops like us though. I mean doesn't our dirt rub off on you?
Fine. That makes it much harder for the tellers to steal money. Do you also lock up the paper and pencils because they might steal that too.
Do any of your tellers posess information that may be useful to a bank robber? That's the real question isn't it? If a teller hated your boss and wanted to see the company suffer can they find ways of making your company hurt? I bet they can, and without USB keys either.
NO fuckwad. What I am saying is that a patched sendmail is secure just as a patched windows is secure. You can't compare a patched w2k to an unpatched sendmail and then say it's more secure. That's just plain old stupid.
Oh BTW. In the linux world we value choice. I for one have used qmail and postfix but have never even felt the desire to use sendmail. Both of those programs have a security track that would anything made by MS to shame.
"Look, Laura DiDio is a tech analyst. She looks for trends in the market. She is neither a programmer nor a copyright expert. "
SO why is she publishing that she was copied code? If she does not have the qualifications to make such a decision then she certainly then she certainly should not be advising investors based on such analysis.
"Davis saw no -infringing- code. That's not the same thing as seeing no common code. Copying a ten-line function almost verbatim is likely a copyright violation. Ending up with a handful of lines that look a lot alike, by contrast, is often just an unavoidable side-effect of writing two pieces of code that do the same thing."
It's apparent now that you did not read the deposition. Go read it. He explains exactly how he searched and what he found. He found 15 instances of "same" code. It was crap like
#endif
return; }
He says (rightly so) that this is like reading two novels and finding that they both contain the phrase "he gave it".
This is significant. He did not have to do any kind of "filtering" to weed out same code that does not infringe. He FOUND THAT THERE WAS NO DUPLICATION OF CODE AT ALL.
If your employees are willing to steal your IP then you are deep shit and this isn't going to help.
If I was a disgruntled employee who had access to valuable information I would sell it to the competitor, if I could not carry the information with me I would sell my username and password to the competitor. While I was at it I would also ask a bunch of my co-workers for their passwords and sell them too.
If your employees are out to screw you then can do it very easily. If not one way then another. Maybe you should ask yourself why they want to screw your first place.
Slashdot Mirror
" The IT industry is just another industry with shares, stockholders, filings, profits and losses. Money is what counts."
Actually the IT industry is different in that it has probably least amount of regulation of any large industry. Your typical pen or lighter has more regulations that apply to it then your code. The product is not regulated, the people who design or produce the product do not have to be licensed or even degreed. The people who implement don't need to be bonded or insured in any way.
All this despite the fact that a simple error by a coder or a network engineer can cause massive damage like shutting down the communications systems of the FAA.
If you ask me the IT industry needs to grow up and be like all other industries. That means making sure the people who write and implement code have proper training and insurance. In short it means being held responsible for your actions like any plumber or doctor would be.
BTW why hasn't anybody sued MS for malpractice yet?
THis case has exposed the ugly underbelly of the American legal system to geeks like me. It's been two years and a date for trial hasn't even been set yet!.
When I write code I test it. I throw random and unexpected input at my code to see if it breaks and if it does I fix it.
The americal legal system is also code isn't it? What would happen if you throw 1000 perfectly innocent people into the legal system? How many of them would come out of it? How many would go broke in the process? How many would lose thier jobs or families in the process? Would it make a difference if they were black or hispanic or arab? I think we all know the answer to this question and the answer is ugly and sad.
Why hasn't anybody tested the legal code like we test programs?
"Again. I am proven right. You claim MS is some unstoppable monster who kills its partners. Here is proof otherwise."
Mmm how are you proven right? MS stole Eolas technology and got sued. They are still fighting the case but at worst they will pay 500 million which is just a small percentage of the money they made from stolen technology.
"Come up with 5 complaints you have about MS's ethics in the last 5 years"
When I was growing up I was thought that lying, cheating and stealing was wrong. Since MS does these things just about every day I guess they are unethical in my book.
I realize however not everybody has the same sense of right and wrong that I do. For many like you it's perfectly OK to do anything and everything as long as you are trying to make profit.
Bullshit.
Virtually no democratic candidate backs an amendment to the constitution. Although many don't favor gay marriage virtually all of them are for civil unions.
If you think there is no difference between republicans and democrats on this matter you are plain old ignorant.
If you are gay or know and care about gay people and still vote for a republican you are just stupid.
" Not likely."
Not likely implies there is a small chance. Since the chance of being sued by the mozilla foundation is zero there is no sense in using it.
"XUL is a GUI framework. MSHTML is an web rendering engine. Perhaps you mean you'd prefer Gecko to MSHTM"
Gecko is a rendering engine that is able to render XUL. IE is a rendering engine that renders MSHTML (that being the MS version of embraced HTML)
Where I live shool spending by the govt has been cut by quite a bit. No rich people have stepped up to pick up the slack.
Wow. That's all you got? They left the sports game field. Wake me up when they close the xbox division and stop developing games.
"OF course they do. That's point of competition. I am in business. I intend to destroy every competitor I can. "
Ah now it's clear. You do not have any morals either. You knwo those things your mother tried to teach you like obeying the law and following your inner sense of morals and ethics.
"Go research Eolas and Veritas and see how each got MS for over $500 million."
Yes. MS stole their property. They sued and won and court and got some money. In the case of Eolas it's still in court. People who work at MS are theives.
"Any new charges will have to be retried from scratch."
MS is getting more desparate every day. In their desparation they will continue to try and steal other peoples technologies and get sued. Pretty soon people will dirty for using their products and that will be the beginning of the end. Of course there are still cases in europe and japan to deal with too.
I think people should make a "ethical software" branding like "dolphin safe tuna". That way we can educate the consumer not to buy software from unethical companies and make the world a better place.
What? Where do you get your information from the MS campus? I have never heard so much shit.
either way you still didn't answer my question. What MS competitor beat MS at anything ever? MS destroys companies. If it does not destroy them outright it leaves them crippled. It also loves to sign partnership agreements and then backstabs their "friends" by stealing their technologies and customers.
Ms is ruthless and is on a rampage. The DOJ could not stop them and I doubt anything short of a nuclear bomb in redmond would. I bet even that would only slow them down for a little while.
"Why gecko? So we can find ourselves in a situation where one popular browser's (or rending engine) tics and weirdness dictates how to write webpages like IE does now?"
I don't know about you but i'd be all for writing moz specific web pages (especially in XUL). Why?
Well just hearing MS execs whine about it would be enough really.
The number one reason might be some sort of a legal action from MS. Ms has gooogle in thier sights and google knows this. I just don't see them taking that risk no matter how small it might be. There is just no business reason to take a risk of being sued by a company with an army of lawyers when moz is free and open source.
As for ease of app development I'd say XUL kicks MSHTML any day.
Personally I don't see how any gay person could possibly be a republican in this day and age. What else in your life could be more important then having the right to marry the person you love and build a family.
Besides it's not like the republicans are for smaller govt or fiscal responsibility these days anyway.
I am asking this question seriously. If there is a gay republican out there. Why are you a republican? These people have called you sick and diseased. Are willing to amend the most scared document of our country to make sure you can never have the same right that they have. They also believe ardently that you are not worthy to defend your own country. They also believe that there should be a whole slew of jobs you should be qualified for including teaching. They believe people should be able to discriminate against you in housing too.
Why? It just doesn't make sense.
"Yes, pretenses he used are NOW shown to be false, but who cares? CIA reports, british intelligence, pentagon sources, etc believed Iraq was a threat and had WMD's."
There were lots of people who did not believe that. Bush didn't hear them when they talked. These people included the actual inspectors on the ground BTW.
Even if the CIA and the british intelligence did believe it (I highly doubt that, they wanted to invade iraq and therefore made that shit up) there were better ways to deal with that then to kill tens of thousands of people and install a CIA agent as your puppet dictator.
GW just cut taxes for the wealthy by quite a bit. Has there been an upswing in charitable contributions by the wealthy?
Name one US representitive or congressman who does not belong to either of the judeo christian religions. There are more muslims in this country then jews and yet not one muslim congress critter. There are probably more atheists then either one of those religions and yet nobody in congress will admit to being one.
So instead of choosing who will sell you out the least you don't choose at all? That's just plain stupid.
"They learn from their mistakes and their competetor's victories."
What competititor's victories? Does anybody have a victory against MS? I can't think of one. The best you can hope for when competing against MS is to survive in a much smaller form.
And you are so much smarter then the rest of us. One wonders why you insist on heanging out with slimy sutpid ass nicompoops like us though. I mean doesn't our dirt rub off on you?
Yea, the guy who sold me the rolex had a story like that too.
It's illegal. I can buy a rolex that fell off the truck for $20.00 too but it's still stolen property.
When you buy an OEM copy of windows you are buying stolen property. It can be taken away from you at any time.
Don't foreget database servers (plural!).
Fine. That makes it much harder for the tellers to steal money. Do you also lock up the paper and pencils because they might steal that too.
Do any of your tellers posess information that may be useful to a bank robber? That's the real question isn't it? If a teller hated your boss and wanted to see the company suffer can they find ways of making your company hurt? I bet they can, and without USB keys either.
NO fuckwad. What I am saying is that a patched sendmail is secure just as a patched windows is secure. You can't compare a patched w2k to an unpatched sendmail and then say it's more secure. That's just plain old stupid.
Oh BTW. In the linux world we value choice. I for one have used qmail and postfix but have never even felt the desire to use sendmail. Both of those programs have a security track that would anything made by MS to shame.
"Look, Laura DiDio is a tech analyst. She looks for trends in the market. She is neither a programmer nor a copyright expert. "
SO why is she publishing that she was copied code? If she does not have the qualifications to make such a decision then she certainly then she certainly should not be advising investors based on such analysis.
"Davis saw no -infringing- code. That's not the same thing as seeing no common code. Copying a ten-line function almost verbatim is likely a copyright violation. Ending up with a handful of lines that look a lot alike, by contrast, is often just an unavoidable side-effect of writing two pieces of code that do the same thing."
It's apparent now that you did not read the deposition. Go read it. He explains exactly how he searched and what he found. He found 15 instances of "same" code. It was crap like
#endif
return;
}
He says (rightly so) that this is like reading two novels and finding that they both contain the phrase "he gave it".
This is significant. He did not have to do any kind of "filtering" to weed out same code that does not infringe. He FOUND THAT THERE WAS NO DUPLICATION OF CODE AT ALL.
If your employees are willing to steal your IP then you are deep shit and this isn't going to help.
If I was a disgruntled employee who had access to valuable information I would sell it to the competitor, if I could not carry the information with me I would sell my username and password to the competitor. While I was at it I would also ask a bunch of my co-workers for their passwords and sell them too.
If your employees are out to screw you then can do it very easily. If not one way then another. Maybe you should ask yourself why they want to screw your first place.
No, they are the same and that's the whole point.