"How many people who worked on those OSS projects the government is using are getting paid by the government or at all for their involvement with the project?"
The govt is just another user of the OSS project. Did you pay to use mozilla? Chances are the govt will probably contribute some money towards continued development for the software they use which is better then 99% of the other users who don't pay anything at all.
"How many people would the government have hired to build the projects if OSS alternatives didn't exist?"
None. They would have bought something.
"The US government pays businesses a ton of money to write software. I currently work with such a company. If the US government decided to use all Open Source a lot of people would be out of work."
Are you writing a web browser? An office suite? A general purpose operating system? An email client?. Probably not. The software the govt pays to write is very specific to their needs.
BTW. Last I checked nobody was entitled to a job. If your customer can get a product thats equal to or better then yours for less money they owe it to taxpayers to do so.
"The Malaysian government choosing to use Open Source has just reduced the amount of money that will go to businesses and therefore employees. Which means lost jobs and/or fewer people being hired on"
Nah. It just means more money will stay malasia rather then go to redmond. Every cent spent on MS software is one less cent circulating in your own country helping your own economy.
"I don't see how governments "wasting" money on paying people to write software or do any other job is a bad thing. "
That's because you are suckling on the momma sows teat. All that taxpayer money pouring into your company and your pocket is wonderful for you but it sucks for me and every other tax payer.
"The government should be more than happy to spend money on commercial software if it suits their needs."
Not if there is a lower cost or free alternative.
"It's nice that they're using OSS but pretending it's not going to result in less jobs is silly."
Your analytic skills need some fine tuning. Unless the govt was actually paying for development of office software and web browsers nobody is going to lose their jobs.
Maybe they realize that there is no such thing as a free lunch. Maybe locking yourself into MS products is bad in the longer term. Maybe they think that the local IT industry will be better off if the govt used open source. Maybe the amount of money that MS gives is not that huge compared to what it would cost to upgrade once longhorn comes out. Maybe, just maybe, they think it's weird that a business has to give money to governments in order to convince them to use their software. Don't you think that's kind of weird?
Since that RFC was written before the advent of spam they should change it. I got tired of getting hundreds of spam to postmaster@mydomain.com and simply shut it off. If anybody blacklists me then fuck them.
They are ones that are ignorant. Blindly following an RFC that ignores the reality of what is happening today is the height of stupidity. Blacklisting somebody for not doing it just plain moronic and asshololic behavior.
But then again there is no shortage of assholes on this planet are there.
Re:Why should "cross platform" always mean Java/.N
on
Ars Technica Tours Mono
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
You missed the point entirely.
There was never any need for.NET. You could have already called COM objects written in one language from another language.
There is still no need for.NET. It's just a ripoff of java. The only reason MS wrote it is because they wanted to spite SUN by building their own version of java and JVM.
1) The cell will offer massive performance with low power consumption. This will make it ideal for clustering applications.
2) Sony intends to make high end workstations as well as consoles using the cell processor.
3) Due to the high volume of PS3 expected to be sold the cell processor ought to be relatively low cost.
The cell processor presents a very real threat to wintel. Intel looks especially vulnarable as it loses out to both the console market and the graphics workstation market.
As for windows well low power consumption, cheap, powerful, able to run linux well you get the idea.
Most succesful open source projects do have a plug in architecture. Apache, php, jabber, gimp, eclipse etc all have this. It's quite common actually. In fact for the popular projects it's the norm and not the exception.
BTW module loading code really is not that complex.
" As far as I know being a Jew is always about either religious practice or ethnic background."
Doesn't it seem odd to you that a jew could either be a race or a religion? It seems odd to me.
"The equation of Jew with Israeli is one I've never heard made"
I get it every time I critize israel. Eventually I'll be called an anti semite because I think that occupation of 3.5 million people is immoral. It's not just hamas it's also americans and israelis that do that.
"Being against the policies of the state of Israel is different from being against the right of the Jewish people to have a homeland."
Mmmm what an odd statement. Nobody has the "right" to have a homeland let alone to establish one where people have been living for generations.
"The problem is many who criticize Israel do it in such a one-sided fashion that it leads to the rational conclusion that their only possible motive could be anti-Semitism."
Again why? This is non sensical. If I critize communism am I a hater of white people who live in russia? If I critize the policies of north korea one sidedly do I hate the oriental race. Why does israel get such dispensation?
"If you blame the Palestinian-Israeli conflict entirely on the Israelis, then yes, you are being an anti-Semite because you holding Israel to a standard that is substantially different from that which you hold the Palestinians, and that which you hold every other government in the world."
BINGO!. You have just called me a racist because I critise israel. Even if I held the state of israel to a higher standard (and I do, just like I hold america to a higher standard) that does not mean I hate semitic people or that I hate jewish people.
What you don't relize is that by trying to smear people of being anti semites and playing the race card you are feeding the "zionism is racism" meme.
By the same token the word "jew" has no meaning either. Sometimes being a jew is about religion, orther times about race and other times it's being a resident of israel.
This is very handy because that way anybody that's against the policies of israel can be accused of being an anti semite.
"I think I've already pointed out the fact that I unfortunately don't have enough time to actually have a work life and a family life and fix everything that's wrong with even one OSS project"
In which care you should shut up and pay for software. OPEN SOURCE ONLY WORKS IF YOU CONTRIBUTE. Everybody has to crontribute in some way.
If there is a problem with OSS it's the leeches. The people who think that the world owes them a free version of a 700 dollar program. Who constantly bitch and moan about how gimp is not as good as photoshop because it does not act exactly the same.
If you hate gimp them don't use it. Buy photoshop and bitch at the company and see how far it gets you. If you don't like mythtv buy a fucking tivo and shut up already.
What kind of a rude asshole complains about a gift? Somebody gave it to you out of the kindness of their hearts and you want to shove it down their throats and yell at them about how much it sucks?
MacOSX, Freebsd, and linux distributions come with python just like all windows will come with.NET. I don't know or care about solaris. Java is SOL because nobody wants to carry it by default, maybe if they open sourced the thing it would be different.
Because the.NET VM puts certain restrictions on the language. For example it prohibits multiple inheritance. In the end all.NET languages have to look like C#, if they have additional features then they have to abandon those features.
It makes no sense to develop for.NET in any language other then C#.
"Let's try again. Tell me exactly how it is that user-unfriendliness is a strength? "
First of all who says it's user unfriendly. Not the people who use it, not the corporations that are adopting it. You say it's not user friendly but that does not count for much does it?
Secondly it's not a weakness if it does not prevent people from using it. If it was a weakness there would be negative effect from it. The fact of the matter is that most people don't give a shit. They would not read the documentation anyway. It's certainly not keeping the explosive growth in check is it?
finally if the documentation is weak it's your fault. Yes you heard me right. It's your fault. Open source is not about bitching and moaning about how much open source developers suck. You have to get off your ass and do something. If the documentation sucks then help write better ones.
Open source only works when YOU contribute. BTW insulting open source developers does not count as contribution. Neither with whining like a little boy because the ice cream somebody gave you wasn't your favorite flavor.
Re:Why should "cross platform" always mean Java/.N
on
Ars Technica Tours Mono
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
"Maybe you will, but not likely. What's more likely is VB programmers using a.net library and not having to worry about what language it was written in."
You mean like using activeX controls in VB while not caring about what language they were written in. Or maybe you mean using DLLs from VB while not caring about which language they were written in.
"However, that means we have to waste diskspace and ram on these unnecessary libraries..."
The answer to this is loadable modules. For example when you install PHP on debian you get just the base php module. If you want to install any of the other modules for php (GD, XML etc) you simply apt-get the loadable module and restart php.
Arnold is the governor of the largest state of the country. Since he got elected his accent was not a weakness. In fact it might have been a strength because some people found it charming.
Once again you are defining weakness as something you don't like. Other people don't find it offensive or a barrier to voting for him. Yet other people find it charming. If his accent was a weakness he would not have won the election therefore his accent is not a weakness.
The same with open source. If all you stated was actually a weakness it would prevent the growth of open source.
Re:Why should "cross platform" always mean Java/.N
on
Ars Technica Tours Mono
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
"The only thing that Mono/.NET has going for it, as far as I can see, is that it is designed to be targetted from multiple languages."
So is parrot. But what is the point anyway? Are you going to have a project where each member of the team is going to program in a different language? Are you going to have an open source project which accepts patches in 10 different languages?
I never did understand why this was a desirable thing. It sounds like a nightmare to me.
Again define weakness. You said OSS was weak. Apparently your definition of weakness is weird since open source shows tremendous growth and acceptance by every industry and several governments as well as millions of users.
How do you look at something that's exploding in growth and popularity and say that it's weak?
"Sony is using a different CPU (Cell), and probably a different GPU, why doesn't the same argument apply to them?"
Yes and no. The Cell processor is likely to be revolutionary. Everything I read about it screams disruptive technology to me. Time will tell but it seems like sony and IBM are making the next generation of linux workstations as well as game consoles.
"Microsoft has "partnered up" with IBM and ATI. Are they not "good people"?"
It depends on what you mean by "partner". Sony is a Partner with IBM because they are developing new technology together. MS is not a Parner of IBM just because they are buying chips from them. They have already backstabbed IBM several times and now are backstabbing Intel. Anybody who partners with MS is just asking for it.
"I know that it's unpopular to actually say good things about Microsoft, "
And yet you get modded up to 4. Actually it's the best way to get karma on slashdot.
For the newbies take this hint. Always post a couple of "I don't like MS but they make a great (X)". In other words take a light swipe at them while praising one of their products highly. It's the best way to get karma.
Who says it's a weakness. OSS has been growing like crazy. Businesses big and small have been adopting it, governments are migrating to it, MS is worried as all hell.
Just exactly what part of that indicates that it's "weak". I think your definition of weak is "I don't like it".
Slashdot Mirror
"How many people who worked on those OSS projects the government is using are getting paid by the government or at all for their involvement with the project?"
The govt is just another user of the OSS project. Did you pay to use mozilla? Chances are the govt will probably contribute some money towards continued development for the software they use which is better then 99% of the other users who don't pay anything at all.
"How many people would the government have hired to build the projects if OSS alternatives didn't exist?"
None. They would have bought something.
"The US government pays businesses a ton of money to write software. I currently work with such a company. If the US government decided to use all Open Source a lot of people would be out of work."
Are you writing a web browser? An office suite? A general purpose operating system? An email client?. Probably not. The software the govt pays to write is very specific to their needs.
BTW. Last I checked nobody was entitled to a job. If your customer can get a product thats equal to or better then yours for less money they owe it to taxpayers to do so.
"The Malaysian government choosing to use Open Source has just reduced the amount of money that will go to businesses and therefore employees. Which means lost jobs and/or fewer people being hired on"
Nah. It just means more money will stay malasia rather then go to redmond. Every cent spent on MS software is one less cent circulating in your own country helping your own economy.
"I don't see how governments "wasting" money on paying people to write software or do any other job is a bad thing. "
That's because you are suckling on the momma sows teat. All that taxpayer money pouring into your company and your pocket is wonderful for you but it sucks for me and every other tax payer.
"The government should be more than happy to spend money on commercial software if it suits their needs."
Not if there is a lower cost or free alternative.
"It's nice that they're using OSS but pretending it's not going to result in less jobs is silly."
Your analytic skills need some fine tuning. Unless the govt was actually paying for development of office software and web browsers nobody is going to lose their jobs.
IBM pays eclipse developers and it doesn't seem to have slowed down the jedit developers.
Maybe they realize that there is no such thing as a free lunch.
Maybe locking yourself into MS products is bad in the longer term.
Maybe they think that the local IT industry will be better off if the govt used open source.
Maybe the amount of money that MS gives is not that huge compared to what it would cost to upgrade once longhorn comes out.
Maybe, just maybe, they think it's weird that a business has to give money to governments in order to convince them to use their software. Don't you think that's kind of weird?
Since that RFC was written before the advent of spam they should change it. I got tired of getting hundreds of spam to postmaster@mydomain.com and simply shut it off. If anybody blacklists me then fuck them.
They are ones that are ignorant. Blindly following an RFC that ignores the reality of what is happening today is the height of stupidity. Blacklisting somebody for not doing it just plain moronic and asshololic behavior.
But then again there is no shortage of assholes on this planet are there.
It's not a sport unless you can die.
Everything else is a game.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
You missed the point entirely.
.NET. You could have already called COM objects written in one language from another language.
.NET. It's just a ripoff of java. The only reason MS wrote it is because they wanted to spite SUN by building their own version of java and JVM.
There was never any need for
There is still no need for
What a collasal waste of money and time.
There are a couple of things you did not mention.
1) The cell will offer massive performance with low power consumption. This will make it ideal for clustering applications.
2) Sony intends to make high end workstations as well as consoles using the cell processor.
3) Due to the high volume of PS3 expected to be sold the cell processor ought to be relatively low cost.
The cell processor presents a very real threat to wintel. Intel looks especially vulnarable as it loses out to both the console market and the graphics workstation market.
As for windows well low power consumption, cheap, powerful, able to run linux well you get the idea.
Most succesful open source projects do have a plug in architecture. Apache, php, jabber, gimp, eclipse etc all have this. It's quite common actually. In fact for the popular projects it's the norm and not the exception.
BTW module loading code really is not that complex.
" As far as I know being a Jew is always about either religious practice or ethnic background."
Doesn't it seem odd to you that a jew could either be a race or a religion? It seems odd to me.
"The equation of Jew with Israeli is one I've never heard made"
I get it every time I critize israel. Eventually I'll be called an anti semite because I think that occupation of 3.5 million people is immoral. It's not just hamas it's also americans and israelis that do that.
"Being against the policies of the state of Israel is different from being against the right of the Jewish people to have a homeland."
Mmmm what an odd statement. Nobody has the "right" to have a homeland let alone to establish one where people have been living for generations.
"The problem is many who criticize Israel do it in such a one-sided fashion that it leads to the rational conclusion that their only possible motive could be anti-Semitism."
Again why? This is non sensical. If I critize communism am I a hater of white people who live in russia? If I critize the policies of north korea one sidedly do I hate the oriental race. Why does israel get such dispensation?
"If you blame the Palestinian-Israeli conflict entirely on the Israelis, then yes, you are being an anti-Semite because you holding Israel to a standard that is substantially different from that which you hold the Palestinians, and that which you hold every other government in the world."
BINGO!. You have just called me a racist because I critise israel. Even if I held the state of israel to a higher standard (and I do, just like I hold america to a higher standard) that does not mean I hate semitic people or that I hate jewish people.
What you don't relize is that by trying to smear people of being anti semites and playing the race card you are feeding the "zionism is racism" meme.
By the same token the word "jew" has no meaning either. Sometimes being a jew is about religion, orther times about race and other times it's being a resident of israel.
This is very handy because that way anybody that's against the policies of israel can be accused of being an anti semite.
That's why people nitpick.
"Fisher is a wanted criminal because he broke US law by aiding an abbetting a state who was at the time conducting genocide. "
Aiding and abetting? Which what shape or form?
"I think I've already pointed out the fact that I unfortunately don't have enough time to actually have a work life and a family life and fix everything that's wrong with even one OSS project"
In which care you should shut up and pay for software. OPEN SOURCE ONLY WORKS IF YOU CONTRIBUTE. Everybody has to crontribute in some way.
If there is a problem with OSS it's the leeches. The people who think that the world owes them a free version of a 700 dollar program. Who constantly bitch and moan about how gimp is not as good as photoshop because it does not act exactly the same.
If you hate gimp them don't use it. Buy photoshop and bitch at the company and see how far it gets you. If you don't like mythtv buy a fucking tivo and shut up already.
What kind of a rude asshole complains about a gift? Somebody gave it to you out of the kindness of their hearts and you want to shove it down their throats and yell at them about how much it sucks?
MacOSX, Freebsd, and linux distributions come with python just like all windows will come with .NET. I don't know or care about solaris. Java is SOL because nobody wants to carry it by default, maybe if they open sourced the thing it would be different.
Because the .NET VM puts certain restrictions on the language. For example it prohibits multiple inheritance. In the end all .NET languages have to look like C#, if they have additional features then they have to abandon those features.
.NET in any language other then C#.
It makes no sense to develop for
"Let's try again. Tell me exactly how it is that user-unfriendliness is a strength? "
First of all who says it's user unfriendly. Not the people who use it, not the corporations that are adopting it. You say it's not user friendly but that does not count for much does it?
Secondly it's not a weakness if it does not prevent people from using it. If it was a weakness there would be negative effect from it. The fact of the matter is that most people don't give a shit. They would not read the documentation anyway. It's certainly not keeping the explosive growth in check is it?
finally if the documentation is weak it's your fault. Yes you heard me right. It's your fault. Open source is not about bitching and moaning about how much open source developers suck. You have to get off your ass and do something. If the documentation sucks then help write better ones.
Open source only works when YOU contribute. BTW insulting open source developers does not count as contribution. Neither with whining like a little boy because the ice cream somebody gave you wasn't your favorite flavor.
"Maybe you will, but not likely. What's more likely is VB programmers using a .net library and not having to worry about what language it was written in."
You mean like using activeX controls in VB while not caring about what language they were written in. Or maybe you mean using DLLs from VB while not caring about which language they were written in.
"However, that means we have to waste diskspace and ram on these unnecessary libraries..."
The answer to this is loadable modules. For example when you install PHP on debian you get just the base php module. If you want to install any of the other modules for php (GD, XML etc) you simply apt-get the loadable module and restart php.
Again. Why? If you like python you use the python interpreter (VM). If you like java you use the JVM.
I just don't get why somebody would want to do such a silly thing.
Arnold is the governor of the largest state of the country. Since he got elected his accent was not a weakness. In fact it might have been a strength because some people found it charming.
Once again you are defining weakness as something you don't like. Other people don't find it offensive or a barrier to voting for him. Yet other people find it charming. If his accent was a weakness he would not have won the election therefore his accent is not a weakness.
The same with open source. If all you stated was actually a weakness it would prevent the growth of open source.
"The only thing that Mono/.NET has going for it, as far as I can see, is that it is designed to be targetted from multiple languages."
So is parrot. But what is the point anyway? Are you going to have a project where each member of the team is going to program in a different language? Are you going to have an open source project which accepts patches in 10 different languages?
I never did understand why this was a desirable thing. It sounds like a nightmare to me.
Again define weakness. You said OSS was weak. Apparently your definition of weakness is weird since open source shows tremendous growth and acceptance by every industry and several governments as well as millions of users.
How do you look at something that's exploding in growth and popularity and say that it's weak?
"Sony is using a different CPU (Cell), and probably a different GPU, why doesn't the same argument apply to them?"
Yes and no. The Cell processor is likely to be revolutionary. Everything I read about it screams disruptive technology to me. Time will tell but it seems like sony and IBM are making the next generation of linux workstations as well as game consoles.
"Microsoft has "partnered up" with IBM and ATI. Are they not "good people"?"
It depends on what you mean by "partner". Sony is a Partner with IBM because they are developing new technology together. MS is not a Parner of IBM just because they are buying chips from them. They have already backstabbed IBM several times and now are backstabbing Intel. Anybody who partners with MS is just asking for it.
"I know that it's unpopular to actually say good things about Microsoft, "
And yet you get modded up to 4. Actually it's the best way to get karma on slashdot.
For the newbies take this hint. Always post a couple of "I don't like MS but they make a great (X)". In other words take a light swipe at them while praising one of their products highly. It's the best way to get karma.
Wow a pro MS post modded to 5 despite being nothing but a thinly disguised advertisement.
P.S. Not one of the so called "innovations" you state came from MS. Not one.
" Which is a fundamental weakness of OSS."
Who says it's a weakness. OSS has been growing like crazy. Businesses big and small have been adopting it, governments are migrating to it, MS is worried as all hell.
Just exactly what part of that indicates that it's "weak". I think your definition of weak is "I don't like it".