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Is Math A Sport?
theodp writes "The close of the International Mathematical Olympiad prompts Slate to question if math is a sport, wondering if mathletes might someday compete in the Olympics alongside track stars and basketball players."
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nt
Vandemar.org
Absolutely ridiculous. If math is a sport then what isn't a sport. Fuck. The world has gone nuts.
Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
If curling is a sport, anything is possible.
I know plenty of people that sweat when they do math - test time usually. So, math has that incommon with sports atleast.
- Your stupidity got you into this mess, why can't it get you out? -Will Rogers
Next on slashdot:
/. section, called 'heavy weight', and, as a first article:
- Pump up those fingers typing.
- Eye-hand coordination.
- Unix manual power lifting for biceps.
- Thinking about using muscles grows them*
Furthermore, I'm proposing new
- New monitor installation, extra secion on protein intake for this activity.
Jokes aside, more than half of the geeks in my company are really build up types (or lean girls). Once you spend 7 hours in front of the screen, you HAVE to do some king of exercise. Now that usually is the gym downstairs, and/or, football/volleyball/etc, guess the stereotype is wrong.
* Someone actually proved this
No question about it -- they are.
Here are some traits of a sport:
(1) It's something that you can train for -- and, with training, improve in
(2) It's something in which your progress and fitness and skill/talent can be measured
(3) It's something in which some people are just naturally gifted and others can achieve at a level commensurate with their effort -- to a point. At some higher levels of mathematics, though -- just like at some levels of athletics (e.g. the Tour de France, the Olympics), no amount of training can overcome a genetic deficiency.
Most of all, both (mathematics & sports) are fun!
Well, if World Series Of Poker can be broacasted on ESPN, then I guess math is a sport.
sport n.
1.
1. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
2. A particular form of this activity.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
3. An active pastime; recreation.
4.
1. Mockery; jest: He made sport of his own looks.
2. An object of mockery, jest, or play: treated our interests as sport.
3. A joking mood or attitude: She made the remark in sport.
5.
1. One known for the manner of one's acceptance of rules, especially of a game, or of a difficult situation: a poor sport.
2. Informal. One who accepts rules or difficult situations well.
3. Informal. A pleasant companion: was a real sport during the trip.
6. Informal.
1. A person who lives a jolly, extravagant life.
2. A gambler at sporting events.
7. Biology. An organism that shows a marked change from the normal type or parent stock, typically as a result of mutation.
8. Maine. See summercater. See Regional Note at summercater.
9. Obsolete. Amorous dalliance; lovemaking.
Math should be a sport as much as 0 equals 1.
Why is it that smart folks can't be happy with simply being smart? Math is obviously not a sport, nor is it a competition. Compete at math? Huh? What does competition add to the struggle? (mumbles something about never reading slashdot again...)
I would like to see a mathematical proof written to support the claim.
/^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
It's an art.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Math may not be a 'sport', but I like the idea of such a competition in an international setting like the Olympics. Let's trim some of the fluff sports that currently litter the Olympics and add math competitions.
In high school I lettered 3 times....in Academic Games. Our high school considered any club that was competive eligible to receive letters.
So yeah, it's a sport.
Here's a test: Does it make you sweat? No? Then it's not a sport. Could be a game, but not a sport.
Just about every word in the english language has multiple definitions. You know, when you look in the dictionary and there are numbers 1,2,3, etc. Lets' take a look at one in the OED.
I. 1. a. Pleasant pastime; entertainment or amusement; recreation, diversion.
If you use that one, then yes, math can be a sport for some people.
d. Participation in games or exercises, esp. those of an athletic character or pursued in the open air; such games or amusements collectively.
That one depends on how you do the math.
c. spec. Pastime afforded by the endeavour to take or kill wild animals, game, or fish. Freq. with adjs. referring to the result achieved.
no, math is not a sport. Unless you can make a funny joke about how doing math kills wild animals. See replies to this post for witty comments.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
Anyone else immediately think of that Sliders episode where the main sport is this strategy game where you have to answer different questions before you can score ?
1 a : a source of diversion : RECREATION b : sexual play c (1) : physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) : a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in I guess math could be considered a source of diversion, but it's not sexual nor does it involve physical activity. I think if we start calling math a sport, the word will lose its meaning. We have academic decathlons, science bowls, quiz bowls, and math olympiads, but I think they should be seperate from symposiums of physical prowess (the super bowl, the olympics, etc.) This seems like a silly story.
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
from dictionary.com
athlete PPronunciation Key(thlt) n. A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
I think the first thing they have to do if they're looking for respect and recognition is to stop calling themselves "mathletes".
Ew.
Jurisprudence Fetishist Gets Off On A Technicality --theonion.com
And in addition:
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Oh, my, Is my math degree showing?
"Go to CNN [for a] spell-checked, fact-checked summary" -- CmdrTaco
Just another form of penis envy.
The International Math Olympiad is a math competition. Check it out. The link's in the article. I agree however that math is obviously not a sport in the common perception of the word.
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
That is why I would classify something like ping pong as a sport. You have an opponent and you have to use your body to win. You move your legs to get you in place to make a shot, and you use your hands to add touch to the shot.
Math is not a sport. And you can't really have an oponent the way you can in real sports. How is the opponent going to stop you? In football cornerbacks try and stop wide recievers. In basketball people are gaurded. In baseball the pitcher trys to make you miss the pitch. What can your opponent do do in math? Nothing. Chess might be more arguable because the opponent can make moves to open up traps for you.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Could we organize a Mental Olympics, with chess boards, engineering feats, and story problems? Math would be just one of many arenas of competition.
It reminds me of the Monty Python skit watching a "World Famous Writer" working on a new book.
Nobody's going to pay for the rights to broadcast math competitions. The (U.S.) National Spelling Bee is the closest thing to this suggestion.
It's not a sport unless you can die.
Everything else is a game.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
evil is as evil does
Seriously check these old putnam tests out, they are hard, high school level math is required, 12 problems in 6 hours, 3 hour blocks for US/Canada college students, the median score is often 0, when I took it last year my score was better than that, but man, still embarassing. They are of course easy once you see the solution but creativity and a lot of intuition are required to solve more than a couple in any givin year.
I have a hard time seeing fans cheering on their favourite mathlete. Could you imagine the 'math' highlights of the day on ESPN or something?
"Today we witnessed the biggest upset in math history. Mr.Robert at the last minute pulled out a proof that he was working on during the half time break, and won it for the team! That's right Larry, what an exciting conclusion to the 2004 Math Bowl! I haven't seen proofs like that since my university years Dave. Now onto a word from our sponsors."
... I rest my case.
"There is no spoon." - The Matrix
This must be a conspiracy by geeks who want to call themselves as athletes ;)
If math becomes a sport, how long will it be before there's a scandal involving those "smart pills" they advertise on late night TV?
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I'm not sure if maths is a sport or not, but I think giving people who voluntarily call themselves "matheletes" a good kicking should be considered a sport ;)
In all real sports you can reasonable expect someone to get injured.
If someone isn't going to get hurt.. why bother!
Math:
The study of the measurement, properties, and relationships of quantities and sets, using numbers and symbols.
Sport:
An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
who | grep -i blond | date cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger; mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount; sleep
You are missing one of the main criteria for sports. You have to be able to stop someone else from scoring or getting what they want. In all games, there is a defense for the offense. What can you defensivly do to stop someone in math?
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
I don't know why everyone is so upset about this. If a room full of "mathletes" frantically trying to solve for X, possibly Y, and in worst cases, Z, isn't a delightful and inspiring display of athletisicm, nothing is.
That's like chess, right?
You know you're a nerd when you can mathematically prove that you have no life.
Somewhat off-topic, but in regards to what should be considered a "sport" ... my memory is kind of fuzzy since it's been 20 years, but in the 1984 Los Angeles summer Olympics, I could have sworn they had a demonstration sport that, IIRC, was something like polo played on all-terrain vehicles instead of horses. I remember feeling really embarassed for the United States... but I can't find any information on it. I'm wondering if I'm getting it mixed up with something else...
No.
If Stephen Hawking can do it, it's not a sport.
Geeks (like me) need to get over their inferiority complex (which I did). Intellectual pursuits are not more or less worthy than physical ones...they're just different.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
No.
-bZj
.sig
I used to run cross-country in high school, and I did a lot more bike riding back then too. Both are fun activities to participate in.
But are they fun to watch? Hell no! I'd rather watch NASCAR than the Tour de France or some random 5K; at least race cars explode when they crash.
Call it a sport if you want, I don't care. I guess if they can show poker on ESPN, anything's possible. But don't expect me to watch.
BTW, I did Academic Decathalon back in high school too; last I checked, I was the record-holder for Pennsylvania in the essay competition. It's neat to be able to say that you did something like that, but if they tried to show it on Fox on prime-time, I'd flip right on by.
--- Where's my car, and why are these grass stains on my pants?
Would you argue polevaulting is or is not a sport ?
;)
:/
There is no opponent to thwart your moves.
You could argue that there are opponents who can jump higher, thereby raising the bar (as a result, literally).
But what if there were no others practicing polevaulting, would it no longer be a sport, merely because you are competing against.. well.. yourself ?
I just don't think chess should be a sport
And I don't think elimination sports should be Olympic sports..
e.g. Tennis.
If you lose a game, your kicked out. Even if the the person you lost again would lose against every other opponent, and you were to be able to win against them.
That's hardly 'fair' and hardly in the spirit of the Olympics.
Then again, the Olympics have been commercialized to the extent of not being allowed to choose what to wear; If your shirt spans the logo of a company that isn't sponsoring the Olympics, you are refused access. This to prevent, of course, large groups of people each carrying, say, a single letter of the competitor, from standing up when the camera is on them and making for a human advertising sign. But, really, geeze
Ask someone (or yourself) if you'd be in favor of a school that selected a small group of students who excelled in a particular area (like math), provided them with special instructors (who might even be paid extra) and special education sessions, special equipment (things as expensive as computers), free transportation to contests, and maybe even uniforms and special privileges for the competing students.
I haven't posed this to anyone in a long time, but when I did in the past, almost everyone opposed this kind of elitism. But most high schools and colleges still have football, basketball and other kinds of athletic teams, which is what I was describing.
I'm not especially excited by the idea of "mathletes", but I think it would be nice if schools devoted as many resources and as much emphasis to academic and intellectual areas (or even arts) as they do to athletics.
If synchronised swimming can make it to the olymics, then "The Run Way" maths test game in Takeshi's castle should be in the olympics (contestants slide down a ramp while trying to work th answer to a simple arithmetic calculation. Get it right and the contestant remains in the game. Get it wrong and they get dumped into the powder).
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Here is how to tell if something is a sport:
You can buy shoes specifically designed to be worn while doing it.
Otherwise it is not a sport.
If someone starts making a pair of shoes with an integrated slide rule, then math will be a sport. Until then, it's just a hobby.
Unknown host pong.
Let X = Y. Then:
X*(X) = X*(Y)
X^2 - Y^2 = XY - Y^2
(X+Y)*(X-Y) = X*(X-Y)
(X+Y) = X
X + X = X
2*X = 1*X
2 = 1
2-1 = 1-1
1 = 0.
QED.
Some sports are included in the Olympics for their physical demands, some to popular interest and some for the spectacle (for example the aesthetics of the teams taking part in synchronised swimming are far more interesting than who actually wins). Math has absolutely no chance because
(a) no physical requiments whatsoever beyond being alive
(b) you basically want a tv audience to watch people think about something that 99% of them cant remotely comprehend
(c) did I mention its boring and no one cares that a bunch of geek math freaks feel underappreciated
Just because you are committed to something and work hard at it does not oblige the rest of the world to indulge you.
I think the international starring championships ala Big Train (Sketch comedy show) will be in the olympics before math is
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
Are pros surrounded by eager young women in every city? FAIL
Bob Costas can tell you more than everything you wanted to know about it? FAIL
Participants use performance-enhancing drugs? PASS
Therefore math is not a sport
"Ludwig Wittgenstein, who famously addressed the question we're discussing in his Philosophical Investigations:
... I would say math's not a sport. However I would say bridge and chess is. This I base on that the challenge is not static. There's a new set of problems for competition (and I don't see it as as the altering track in cycling for instance) and that is the determing point in my mind. However it is a competition and it's great to have large competitions in math.
Consider for example the proceedings that we call "games." I mean board-games, card-games, ball-games, Olympic games, and so on. What is common to them all? Don't say: "There must be something common, or they would not be called 'games' "but look and see whether there is anything common to all.
(...)
How should we explain to someone what a game is? I imagine that we should describe games to him, and we might add: "This and similar things are called games." And do we know any more about it ourselves?
"
I would say - IMH(umble)O - that a game is an activity governed by rules and it follows that games is the plural. Thus board-games, card-games, ball-games, Olympic games are bound to gether. Things resembling games, but without rules, is play, like the children do.
As for sport that's more fishy, it is at least a subset of games, but
As for olympics I agree with the IOC. The olympics is based on the old greek athletic games and races.
SOT: when I think about it, Slashdot can be more of a sport, judged much like figure skating. It's about getting you're point across in the limited attention the article enjoys and at least I often find myself browsing multiple windows to collect facts (or at least something that seems like facts.) What about Slashdot Olympics?
Look a monkey!
Sciences.
To be honest I think they're oversimplifying what a sport is. It's not just a definition for anything you can compete in, it's a genre of activities that specifically tax your physical ability, manual dexterity, strength, stamina and endurance. Yes, there is a degree of brain power involved, but only so much as that a natural footballer is as skilled at his chosen activity as a mathamatician is at his. In both math and football, natural ability is an almost sub-conscious trait.
So before people argue about whether math can be a sport, they need to define whether football can be a science. In its purest terms it can't be, because success is defined by the abilities of the individual and the rules of the sport. Sports and sciences have taken hundreds of years to form into two distinct camps, although thinking about it, I guess this would sort out the whole jocks and nerds thing for good.
The accepted definition of sport, as far as the Olympics would be concerned, is, from what m-w.com says, "a physical activity engaged in for pleasure". Likewise, m-w.com defines athlete as "a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina".
Of course, since the Olympics are all about revenue, you need something that folks find exciting. A bunch of people sitting around solving complex math problems may be some folks' idea of fun, but I doubt McDonald's or Budweiser is going to funnel money towards advertising for that.
0 does equal 1, for very small values of 1.
Math is not a sport. Problem solving could be considered to be similar to a sport. You don't actually train on Math; you learn Math, and you train on solving problems. And you can show your progress and fitness (and speed) on solving a particular class of problems. I did, and I won the Olimpíada Matemática Argentina in 1989 and I would have gone to the International Mathematics Olympiad, if only the stupid government of Raúl Alfonsín (Argentina's president at the time) hadn't leaked all the central bank's reserves into every politician's pocket.
Plus, these competitions are also very fun (for those who like Math).
At what point does a game become a sport?
if you dont use it, it may atrophie (sp?)
if you train it, it gets stronger
if you drink beer, it gets slow
if you take drugs, it may enhance it in the short term, damage it on the long run
if you get really good at it, you can compete with it
*shower*
Math is interesting, math is fun, math is usefull, but math is not a sport.
From WordNet (r) 2.0:
sport
n 1: an active diversion requiring physical exertion and
competition [syn: athletics]
math serves many useful purposes... sports serve none other than excercise. please don't defile math by associating it with sports
I wonder when "Typing" will become a sport. I mean, it does involve physical activity and endurance. :) Lines of people typing to reach the goal ;)
Jesus, man, baseball's barely a sport, it's more of a game...like chess. Math doesn't even reach that level of athletic competition.
For something to be a sport there must be a chance of you dying while participating in it. Show me something considered a real sport where there is no chance of dying.
I can see an arguement for Math being a game. Games are basicly contests done for fun or competition where one side faces another side. So Math as a game, ie, who can do these the fastest, is possible.
Sports, however, have a decent physical component. Even Curling, you need to skate and be able to sweep ice. Synchronized Swimmin, you need to have an entire team co-ordinated in their movements. Math? Sorry, pencil-scribbling and calculator-punching doesn't equal physical activity enough to qualify as a sport.
Well, I always think at least one of these has to be involved:
(1) Power
(2) Endurance
(3) Precision of movement
Some people also say
(4) Competition should be possible
wikipedia:
:
Sport is a major area of human interest and activity. A large part of our leisure, and newspaper and TV time is given over to it.
A pragmatic approach to defining "sport" is to look at the common usage of the term.
A sport can be operationally defined as an activity characteristically involving
* The exercise of a useful physical skill recreationally, i.e. for a purpose other than its practical application in daily life.
* Conforming to a set of rules for the activity while aiming to attain excellence.
The excellence referred to above may be measured against previous benchmarks, time measurements, performance of the other team or participants, world records, etc..
Examples of skills which have become sports:
* Gladiators in Rome fought and killed for the delectation of the audience, rather than to protect the Empire:
* Yachting is the travel across water for enjoyment or competition rather than e.g. for transport or commerce:
* Running is done on a course for a fixed length of time or distance, rather than simply to catch a bus.
Physical sports use characteristics such as strength, stamina, speed, dexterity and other skills, other sports use more cerebral skills (see mind sport), such as strategic thinking in chess. This article, however, will concentrate on physical aspects of sport.
The line between sports, games, exercise and play is certainly not clear; games are often redefined as sports when they involve particularly skilled participants, which gives them appeal to non-participants. This is especially true in the modern age, which gives much weight to the spectator aspect of sports. Similarly, play is usually understood as less purposeful activity, but can become more like a game or sport as it conforms more to external rules or patterns of behaviour. Exercise is action to develop skill or ability, and may be a forerunner of both sport and games.
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
I found the proposition of Math as an Olympic event hilarious. Not only are most people (at least here in the US) terrified to death of math, the average non-math expert isn't going to be able to follow a math-based competition.
I can just imagine the guys gathering around for the math world championship with a few six packs and chips, yelling "GO USA! INVERT THAT MATRIX, BABY! WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
Asia Carrera - known to not quite be a blogger to some, and adult film star to others once competed in the International Mathematical Olympiad
Citius, Altius, Fortius
Swifter, higher, stronger - what could be a more straight forward definition than the motto of the olympics? Swimming is an olympic sport, diving is not. Sprinting and weight lifting are olympic sports, ice dancing and gymnastics are not. Throwing an item and measuring the distance is an olympic sport. Awarding marks for the manner in which an item is thrown is not.
My next sig will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush
in Japan.
if you RTFA, you find this quote:
What about beer pong
The article actually explores a whole bunch of other claimed "sports" and the thin line that seems to seperate sports from games.
Personally, I want to see Beer Pong in the olympics, but with NO BLOWING!
who | grep -i blond | date cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger; mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount; sleep
Of course math isn't a sport. Just because some people call boxing "The Sweet Science" doesn't mean that sports and science are interchangeable.
Otherwise all of those semiliterate pro footbal and baseball players could claim to be scientists. In short, FUCK THAT.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
First of all I want to point out how absolutely ridiculous this question is. It is merely an invitation to petty linguistic bickering over whether the word 'sport' is broad enough to cover mathematics competitions. There is no real substance to this issue and I expect to see a bunch of pointless posts referencing differnt dictionaries. This is doubly pointless because the dictionary could say a sport is a type of lettuce and it wouldn't make any difference, the public at large is going to continue to use sport to refer primarily to athletic events and not mathematical competitions. Regardless of how you can twist dictionary definitions for all prctical purposes the word sport (by usage) will continue to not include mathematical competitions.
There is however, a more important issue to be addressed. That is the inappropriate confusion of these math (or science) competitions with the actual subject itself. Now I realize that these competitions are run with the best intentions but in the long run they do a disservice to the communities they attempt to publisicise.
While it *should* be entierly irrelevant who is making an argument unfortunatly it often is not. So perhaps it will clear up confusion if I point out that I am a math grad student who has competed in many of these type events (I even was in the physics olympiad camp) and I have quite positive regard for both these subjects and the competitions. The competitions are certainly a fun way for students interested in these activities to interact, meet others, and engage competitively. I'm not advocating they cease existing or anything of the kind.
I am, however, deeply disturbed by the way these activities are presented. The math and physics olympiads (as well as numerous lesser high school competitions) are presented as representitives of actual math or science. While it might have some local benefit to get people excited about the competitive aspect of these competitions it will ultimately only hurt these communities if people confuse these rigged competitions with what mathematicians or scientists *really* do. Science and math *aren't* sports where people race to solve rigged problems and presenting them as such quite likely erodes public perception of their importance. The public might admire sports but when push comes to shove they will cut sports funding before other programs, we don't want them to consider math and science the same way. Even worse by emphasising only the competitive aspects and problem solving tricks of these disciplines many students who have slightly differnt interests are turned off. I don't have any evidence but it is quite possible that the mischarechterization of science/math as primarily competitive contributes to the underrepresentation of females in these fields.
Unfortunatly this confusion between the competitions and the actual subject is quite real. At least in the mathematical world performing well on the putnam or IMO will get one into grad school or college respectively. There seems to be a widespread, and false, belief that these competitions bear a significant resembelance to their subjects.
It is true that the putnam and IMO competitions do focus on proving various results and not on the brute calculations that unfortunatly comprise most of HS and undergrad mathematics education. However, solving cute little problems under time pressure is hardly an accurate description of mathematical enterprise. Many important fascets of mathematical investigation (developing new definitions/conceptual frameworks, collaboration etc..) are entierly absent and the competition favors quick studious thinkers who go through books of past competitions over deeper thinkers.
The physics competitions (which I have more personal knowledge of having been a finalist in the physics olympiad) are even worse. Physics is the search for *new* laws and rules about the universe (not necessarily fundamental...for instance laws about liquid flow) while the competitions merely measure application o
If you liked this thought maybe you would find my blog nice too:
No.
Their may be a grammatical error, misspeling, or evn a typo in this post.
Well until the b-ark is finished.
What the olympics bringing peace and understanding? HA, you must never have watched the reports in them. The olympics have lost all value if they ever had one with them being hosted by the nazi's 2x, at least hitler waited with killing jews until after the olympics were over. The munich they did it during and it just went on because all of the sporters wanted their chance to win gold. In the tour de france you get "memorial" events like the team mates of person who died being allowed to finish first as a team or them all walking accross the finishing line. Not in the olympics. If even one had turned down the medal and given it instead to the killed israelis then the olympics could have had some meaning. Now it shows sports for what it is. A bunch of glory hunting selfish bastards.
Add the boycotts and it doesn't even work on a political level. Peace and understanding except if the game is held by your enemey?
Maths an olympic event? What has math done to be punished that badly.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
For the love of God... NO
There was a lady in Europe who did it with 759 men in a row
Come on people... math is not a sport...
Definition of sport (in my view) requires physical exercise.
No, poker is not a sport. Chess is not a sport. Bow&Arrow may be a sport, same applies to Snooker
how long until
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sport
First two listed.
1A) Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
2B) A particular form of this activity.
2 - An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
I don't believe math has any physical endurance at all. Mentally sure.
I am not putting down people who are great at mathematics, but its not a sport.
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
Bob's penis is two inches long when limp. When erect, it gains an additional five inches. How many woman can Bob fuck in an hour?
Answer: ZERO! Bob is a gay homosexual.
We're arguing about the olympics here, anyone bothered to look up the IOC's definition of a sport? Maybe it would be a lot more productive than picking each dictionary's definition, since dictionaries have to follow usage, and don't necessarily carry formal distinctions.
d f
according to http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_122.p
Math and Chess could theoretically be accepted as disciplines, since events mention performance, as ranked between individuals, and discriminate against mechanical propulsion not against non-physical activity(which is good, since pistol shooting mostly involves standing still, among other Olympic Sports)
There remains the non-techie idea idea that Chess and Math are competitive disciplines, but not sports, since the laws of physics, which affect the results of all the other sports, don't affect the results of Math or Chess. Let me clarify:
If I submit a proof, and you submit a proof, the proof is correct or not correct, the wind blowing over our heads will not affect it, your weight will not affect it, your physical state will have the barest influence possible on the proof you present.
Now this just may be a prejudice, but most sports involve bettering your body, and any mental improvement in coincidental, while Math and Chess improve your mind, and any body improvement is either coincidental, or of little impact to the practice of the discipline.
Since Math and Chess have so little in common with sports, we need to classify them as something other than sports. I propose Mental Disciplines.
We can certainly lobby for Mental Disciplines to be included in some future Olympics, but let's keep things clear until we do.
Everyone knows that all sports have to lend to easy marketing (like big hoods to paint logos on, or people who use shoes and can do commercials for them).
The white board companies just don't need spokespersons . . .
`which fortune`
By the way, after extensive research, I discovered that the WORLD SERIES diverges!!!
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
It's not a sport anymore than hunting or fishing is. Not that math and the above aren't enjoyable. Sports are life!
-d
Gone!
My sons participate in the TMSCA (Texas Math and Science Coaches Association) mathematics competitions during the school year. It's a middle school competition that consists of 12 meets during the school year, 2 qualifying meets, and 1 state competition (for those who qualified). Each meet consists of four different types of tests (Number Sense, Mathematics, Calculator, and Science) *
There are rules and time limits. The ones who have talent and the ones who practice tend to win. Awards given out and emotions run high. I think this meets all the qualifications for a sport.
However, anyone who believes this is equivalent to physical competition is deceiving themselves. The Olympics are historically for athletic sports. Including intellectual sports would be wrong in my opinion. If anything, they should be given their own competition.
"Wilson's reaching for the cos() key, no wait, he's going for the tan()!" -- I just don't see it getting the ratings :)
* For those who are interested:
Number Sense tests the ability to work problems completely in your head. (No scratch paper!).
Mathematics is a multiple choice "solve the equation".
Calculator is a fill-in-the-blank test with insanely complex formulas and geometry problems (calculators may be used, duh!). I like calculator test in that they slip in Common Sense(tm). They'll often have equations that solve to 1 if the child notices that the top and bottom of the fraction are the same.
Finally, the science test is multiple choice on physics, chemistry, earth science.
Anonymous Kev
Proudly posting as AC since 1997
(Finally got a dang account in 2004)
... has never been properly resurrected. If you recall your history class, in ancient Greek Olympic games competitors were supposed to compete not only in who can run faster or throw a spear/disc/whatever farther -- but also in a lot more intellectual things, e.g. writing verses/poems, and such. Greeks were always interested in equal development of mind and body -- without giving preference to either.
By this token -- why, math is a great sport!
--AP
One of those worthy questions for which the answer is "no."
Step 1: Assume Math is a sport.
Step 2: If Math is a sport, all Math nerds are athletes.
Step 3: All atheletes are jocks (remember high school?).
Step 4: All jocks beat up math nerds (again, re: high school).
Conclusion: All Math nerds beat up math nerds.
But: I am a math nerd, and have never beaten anyone up (including myself or any another math nerd).
This is a contradiction.
Ergo, Math isn't a sport.
QED
Like when the teacher said, "Johnny, use the word 'beautiful' twice in a sentence." Johnny said, "Yesterday at dinner, when my sister told us she's pregnant, my father said, 'beautiful, just fucking beautiful.'"
Motorsports are a sport too. Got the word 'sports' right there alongside 'motor' and shit.
DUH!
People ask this kind of question about all sorts of things, as though there is some kind of natural law that dictates what is or isn't a sport (or game, or whatever we're arguing about today). Alas, "sport" isn't some natural feature of the structure of the universe, it's a word that's reasonably useful in communicating an ill-defined concept. Asking questions about the precise boundaries of an ill-defined word is pointless.
Fortunately, nothing depends on it! Nobody's all that confused about which features math shares with track and field (sweating, no; competition, yes). And if the organizers of the Olympics declared that math (or poker, or cooking) would be admitted if it were a sport, the right step would not be to try to determine whether or not it's a sport. The right step would be to find out exactly what the organizing committee meant by "sport." After some run-around, we would find out they didn't have anything in mind, and were just speaking loosely in the hope that it wouldn't cause any problems.
Even if there were a "natural brain" competition class, it would be more like the Special Olympics once most everyone else was augmented. I'd be thinking, "Look at those pathetic meat-brains! They can't even do simple calculus in under 1 millisecond like the X30-implant can! Haha. Amusing luddites."
(the steroid analogy doesn't really apply here because most people aren't on them themselves, but when athletes *DO* use stealthy enhancement drugs, and the latest in training/materials, it makes for a more interesting spectacle despite the 'cheating' hypocrisy. If most people were also physically improved cyborgs, that attitude would change, and it would the 'aided-human' class that got the spotlight.)
--
Power to the Peaceful
I don't think the right question is about math being a sport. No body has claimed that. The name of this competition is just simply math olympiad. It is a competition on math proficiency of the high-school level kids. Now, you may argue that such a competition is not really helping maths, or it is can't really help kids getting more interested in maths or anything but just sticking to a word in a whole article and running debates on a totally unrelated thing is just rediculous.
If you can drink a beer while doing it, it isn't a sport. Therefore, Golf and Bowling and Math are NOT sports.
Vincent J. Murphy
Spandex Justice
The philosopher Bernard Suits defines a sport as a game that meets the following four criteria: "(1) that the game be a game of skill; (2) that the skill be physical; (3) that the game have a wide following; and (4) that the following achieve a certain level of stability." .1 or .2 seconds. That is one of the primary physical requirement, if you are too slow, no amount of mental skill can help you. So if everybody is running a 4.5s 40m, what makes one much better than another? The mental part, reading defenses, knowing their route against a given defense, running precise routes. The game is physical, the difference maker is mental.
"Maybe one should take 2) to mean "at least one of the skills relevant to the game is physical."
I think that falls short of the definition of sports, it should be the skills are primarily physical. Which includes things such as ballroom dancing, figure skating, but rules out math, bridge, or just adding a short running component to solving math problems.
Boxing columnist R. Michael Onello says "boxing is 70 percent mental"
I disagree with this, the difference between Boxer A and Boxer B can be 70% mental, but that doesn't mean the sport is 70% mental. Once you push the human body to its physical limits (which all top athletes do) the difference from athlete to athlete is mostly mental.
For example if you look at 40m times for football wide receivers there isn't much differece, like
D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
The Olympics are already full of bizarre sports, so at this point I don't think math would make it any stranger. Personally, I rather wish they'd go back to the original olympic sports, which were strictly track-and-field stuff, such as running, jumping, and throwing various things (javelins, discs, shotput) as far as you can. Those events test the very basics of athleticism.
If nothing else, it'd make it more watchable as far as I'm concerned. I am absolutely fed up with the bazillions of events, none of which can be covered, and so all the networks show are the 2 minutes of the finals of the events in which <country-you-live-in> happens to have a participant. There's none of the exciting competition and leadup and getting to know the opponents; it's just the athlete from <country-you-live-in> versus a bunch of people you've never heard of from other countries, and more often than not one of them wins, and you're left thinking "gee it would have been nice to see him/her in the leadup events"...
" Compete at math? Huh? What does competition add to the struggle?"
A demonstration of one's capabilities that some aspire to reach?
"Derp de derp."
The formalists thought it was a "game" -- which is to say a formal system interesting mainly because of the relations between various components in the system.
Unfortunately, that was only fun for a little while until Gödel's Incompleteness Proof successfully proved that not all truths of arithmetic could be proved using the rules of arithmetic. The result generalizes.
So the real question here is "Are all sports games?" If so, and it seems quite reasonable, then quite objectively the answer to "Is mathematics a sport?" is no. (Ok, so only if all games are formal systems...)
Calvinball does not count.
Man, there's going to be some ugly beatings.
Why do I have this? I don't smoke.
By definition, anything a geek is good at is nether a sport or popular.
Finally a "sport" that I would meet the qualifications for the "Special" competition.
My struggles with math go back to the days of minus meaning "take away". Since the following problem:
1 - 1 = ??? means take away 1, the answer is one. You had two ones to start with, you take one away, you have one left. Math is so simple!!!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
Regardless of whether or not math is a sport, it is a more important endeavor. I'm sorry if this sounds like trolling, but someone who runs really fast or jumps really high or is capable of putting little pieces of rubber in a net is not really too important to the great grand scheme of things.
Mathematicians on the other hand train for the capacity to contribute something back to the world they live in. We use things in our every day lives that can be directly attributed to advances in math.
On the other hand, very little, if anything, is given back to the world due to people competing in physical activities.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Citius, Altius, Fortius, ... Calculus?
The competition was split between academic questions so ridiculously absurd that even the professors spent half their time stumped, and a poorly-thought out bit of track and field.
Since about half the track team was in latin at my school, we made up for our mediocre academic finish by pummeling the crap out of them in track.
Come to think of it, I've "competed" in a lot of academic subjects (I even got a "letter" for it in high school, which would have looked good on my letter jacket if I'd ever got one. It's quite fetching in the junk drawer, I assure you), and most of those competitions just devolve into trivia.
So if you want to cheapen your math knowledge by doing trivia, by all means, go olypmic. I myself think I'll leave that junk in high school, and go compete where I get a sweet salary when I win.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
At least linguistically.
Just like "Wassersport" (water sports) or "Wintersport" (winter sports) we have the word "Denksport" which encompasses mental/intellectual exercises and literally translates to thought sport or thinking sport.
Like a great mind once uttered:
"Is bingo an art, a game, a sport, or a science?"
"No."
Much the same could be said for math, although it's not as boring as bingo.
then sex should be considered a sport.
If math were a sport, then that would instantly transform nerds and geeks into athletes and jocks by a sudden puff of semantics. The resulting body of "jocks" would hence have nobody to pick on, beat up, etc., because there are no more nerds. This would cause irrevocable rip in the space-time continuum, an imbalance in the Force, or what have you. Without nerds to beat up, real jocks would cease to exist, but since nerds are also jocks by our definition, nerds would also disappear, leaving only one catastrophic group left to rule the world....PREPPIES!!
We can't allow that too happen. Math and sports are separate. Vive le Qualcul Libre!
This must be an attempt to get mathletes laid as much as regular jocks. Thus, I wholeheartedly support it.
Nobody is claiming that poker is a sport, either. Which is where your logic fails - you equate "broadcast on ESPN" with "sport". Granted, ESPN is mainly about sports, but it also broadcasts other competitive activities that are questionable as "sports". Poker is by far the one furthest from athletic competition. But if you ask anyone on ESPN if poker is a "sport", you can bet the answer will be "no".
Neither poker nor math are sports. Of course, the difference between poker and math is that poker can be fun to watch.
Yeah, but you just know every American and Russian on the podiums is going to be disqualified for doping. No wait, thats real sports, got myself confused there for a minute...
Oh, and in all seriousness, a sport is typically defined as a physical compeition between various people. The kind of people who think Maths could be classes as a sport are the kind of people who think Integration and Differentiation are more important principles than right and wrong.
Shoot every bastard who suggests this, their immediate families and sterilize the remainder. This way of thinking, and the genome that cultivated it must be banished! (Alternatively, to hinder reproduction, we could just send them all here to chat)
My initial response to this was "not really, but at least it would make the bloody olympics worth watching". I'm a bit amazed no-one else has had the same reaction.
Only on Slashdot...
When I see captain of the Math team kicking sand into the face of a non-jock and not getting the crap beat out of him I will believe that Math is a sport.
People seem to have a lot of trouble with giving exact definitions for things like sports. Here is a good definition, which I think works:
A sport is what I point to and say " that's a sport."
Competition:
Two or more participants (individuals or teams) strive to produce some mutable attribute which can be used for comparisons (determining who won). Your best X in Y. I.e. you cannot (generally) make a 'competition' out of how tall you are, but you can make a 'competition' out of who runs the fastest because you can choose to improve or change your performance in the latter.
Game:
A competition which involves BOTH interference and strategy. Strategy being your intended action and those of your opponents (the key here is an intentional plan to ensure victory) along with changes that are made to your strategy during the game, if the rules game permit. Interference being your ability to DIRECTLY PREVENT your opponent from winning. The 4x400 relay is NOT a game, it is a competition. Chess is a game because your can choose (strategy) play that affects your opponents ability to win. You do not need to be able to ensure your own victory, but that is always a nice bonus.
Sport:
Any game in which you can, within the normal rules of the game physically injure your opponent. Of course the ability to hurt your opponent doesn't have to be a normal way of playing the sport and instead be mostly coincidental (e.g. Football), but it could be if one wanted to (e.g. Kickboxing). Ability to hurt oneself is optional, but encouraged. Some may say that one can have a situation which is not a game (i.e. no strategy & interference), but unless you can a) plan to hurt someone, and b) hurt them, you can't have a sport.
Given those rules, let's look at some examples.
As a rule of thumb, if the competitors don't have to be in the same place as each other (or their proxy) then you cannot have a Sport. If the players do not need to even be aware of each other (in reality or virtually), then you most certainly do not have a Game.
E.g. you could have a bowling tournament with each player in their own private facility without any real difference. And don't give me any crap about 'psyching out' the competitor. Therefore it is a competition (who can knock the most pins down).
There's a place called "too far". I can't seem to find it.
Math is interesting, math is fun, math is usefull, but math is not a sport.
Math is natural - math is good
Not everybody derives
But everybody should
Math is interesting - math is fun
Math is best when it's....one plus one
one plus one
Of course, by geeky implication from this, it's clear why George Michael liked 1+1. Most guys would instead go for 1+0, and really go for 0+1+0. Yeah! :-)
And I, could at last be an Olympic contender.
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
...the British 100 Metre Relay Team and Stephen Hawking trundling along beside them holding the British flag.............
I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born - Ronald Reagan
No, it's not some kind of python coding competition. As it turns out, besides the ancient Olympic games there were three other large competitions: The Pythian Games at Delphi (Apollo); The Isthmian Games (Poisedon); and the Nemean Games (Zeus).
According to my tour guide in Delphi (I was recently there, really a very interesting site) the Pythian games were originally and primarily artistic in nature, with musical, dramatic, and poetic competitions, with athletic competitions added somewhat later. Delphi was the most important religious site in Greece, and Apollo was the god of reason and music, thus the emphasis on these subjects.
So in that respect, I think intellectual and creative competitions should very well be regarded as sports. Perhaps resurrecting the Pythian games (and perhaps the others as well) alongside the Olympics would be a good idea.
On a side note, the winners of the Pythian games were not the ones who excelled in a single subject, they were the people who did well in all subjects. Balance in all things was considered a key virtue by Apollo. It would be nice if that were true today.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
There are only three true sports Fishing, Mountain climbing and Car racing, the rest are merely games.
..........FULL STOP.
Clearly for most /.ers math is not a sport but there are and have been people for whom it is or was a diversion.
sport - c.1400, from Anglo-Fr. disport, from O.Fr. desport
"pastime, recreation, pleasure," from desporter "to divert,
amuse, please, play" (see disport).
disport - 1303, from Anglo-Fr. disporter "divert, amuse," from
O.Fr. desporter, lit. "carry away" (the mind from serious
matters), from des- "away" + porter "carry."
I nominate you to play defense.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
A sport is an activity that involves atheletic ability and procedure. Like darts, pool, golf etc, math is not a sport but rather a skill. Some skills should be in the Olympics because they do require some physical ability or physical skill. Math does not and should not be in the Olympics. It's in the same vein as programming competitions. It's an intellectual skill, not a physical one.
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
there's more
Ow!
This is The Big Show with The Big Zero on Sports Radio 850 WWEI in Boston
"Hey John Nash. This is Butchie from beyond da grave. Why don't you call me when you have something modern. He he he he he."
Well it seems the Stars of Mathematics are dwindling as they drop another one in Germany. Hey stars, why don't ya pick it up a little.
"Hey, did you see that play on MathCenter highlights? d/dx(Abs(x))|x=0 is undefined?!"
But don't worry cause we got Evil Tony Mazzarotti to help bring it all into perspective. Hey Evil Tony, why don't you lay off the coffee?
"HEY ROB SCHNEIDERMAN! I HEARD YOU'RE TAKING A SABATTICAL IN THE FALL. YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOU FAT BASTAD!"
We also got Larry Johnson to bring us the Yankee -- er, I mean -- Calculus talk.
"I've been trying to get Convergent Sequences on this thing for the past two hours. I keep fiddlin' with it and fiddilin' with it. Oh, brother."
And back on the supersized mic it's Pete "Ito Calculus" Shepard on The Flash.
"It's quite possible that caluclus can prove or disprove God's existance. But I think it's more important to find out if the Sox will ever win The Fall Classic again."
All joining The Big O on a Tuesday edition of the...
"So, the stars dropped another one. Are you sure Terry Francoma isn't managing them?"
Big Show.
If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
Frankly, I would like to see the math olympiads (along with the other science olympiads) getting more public attention, because the students that compete in these contests are nothing short of remarkable. But since the contest is so out of reach from the mainstream, I doubt math or other strictly academic activities will obtain a following necessary to make it a legitimate sport.
Another thing that truly separates math from sports is that sports require some sort of physical skill. Nothing more than the ability to write legibly is required for a math test. It's true that all sports have a critical mental aspect (after all, your brain controls your body), but it's the physical aspect that makes an activity a sport rather than simply a game or contest.
--If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.
The terms "athlete" and "sport" aren't mutually exclusive, in my mind.
One can play a sport, without necessarily being an "athlete". Fishing, golf, hunting, etc. are definitely sports, but one would be hard-pressed to consider the participants "athletes", per-se.
Hell, I could call hacking (or cracking, for that matter) a sport, but would YOU consider those people athletes?
Next, I suppose, you're going to talk about "ice hockey".
Right on target!
Essentially, the IMO is a problem-solving competition in which the problems and their means of solution are mathematical.
Anyone looking for examples of the sort material covered by the IMO should check out Kalva.
I suppose my point here is that 'olympiad mathematics' is potentially a sport, in much the same sense that chess is; this doesn't mean that research mathematics is a sport at all.
You can get seriously hurt or possibly die while doing it. Anything else is just screwing around, looking foolish and wearing smarmy clothes.
1) You need to have an offence and defence, physically competing against each other at the same time and same field.
2) There must be control of an object(usually a ball or puck)
3) must be physically demanding.
Thus, water polo is a sport, swimming is an activity. Or just not drowning.
It seem to me most people think becasue something is an activity, it's not as 'good' as a sport, and of course, this is crap.
I like Archery, but it's an activity, a competition, but not a sport.
Running a marathon is HARD, it's TOUGH, I have huge respect for people who can run one, but I wouldn't call it a sport.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It is a sport if:
- You can drink beer while watching it...
- You can bet money on it...
- Someone would watch it...
That's the reason why monster car racing, Nitro chainsaw and all kind of obscure stuff are sports.
OK, Math is a sport. So is Munchkin, then. And movie marathons should be sanctioned, too.
I remember the anxiousness before a competition. So many of us were nervous. We felt lucky to get choosen for the top four spot, to be able to compete in the team competition. We'd yell, shout, cheer when we got problems to work on. Inevitably one of us had a dissenting opinion based on some calculator response. The invidual competitions were just as gruling, and yet harder because there was no one but yourself to rely on for the answer.
In the end the winners got trophies, the losers went home upset. Back in my Mu Alpha Theta days I most definitly would consider math a sport.
Now years later in a graduate program for math, I can say that it's an even more cutthroat sport than I once thought. To have the skill to prove things no one else has done, or to understand the proofs for things considered "basic" or "easy" takes more than training, it takes finess.
So I would agree with those that think math is a sport. I'd also agree with those saying math is an art. But mostly I'd say math is the foundation of everything, so of course it is a sport and an art.
...so is Poker.
No TiVo and no caffeine make me something something...
Competion, does not mean it's a sport.
Activity, does not mean it's a sport.
You like it, does not mean it's a sport.
it's hard, doesn't make it a sport.
it's easy, doesn't mean it's a sport.
Somebody calls it a sport, doesn't mena it's a sport.
The competion has the word 'olympic' in it, doesn't mean it's a sport.
Most people think if it's a sport, it's somehow better. Or if something they like isn't a sport, then it's being insulted. That's rubish, and youy are falling into the 'sports is the pynical of achivement' mentality.
Shame on you.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I can see it now: the 400 metre titration...
-- "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and wrong." -- HL Mencken
I don't care if mathematics is called a sport or not. But I would pay money to see a math-channel on cable that had documentaries on famous mathematicians and that showed lecutures from the greatest now living professors.
P = NP
I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
sport
n 1: an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition
irb(main):001:0>
Where can you find the news of chess matches and chess championship? They are usually categorized in the Sport section. If chess is a sport, then math is a sport.
It depends on the meanings of "sport" and "is"
Why can't any of the so-called "journalists" simply pick up a friggin' dictionary?
the Astro-physics event? We'll combine them for a duathalon...
DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
However, sex is a very demanding physical activity, it burns more calories than any other physical activity (sport).
therefore, fucking is activity that requires strength, stamina and concentrations!
now, name me a REAL hardcore unquestioned sport that doesn't requires any of the above!
Thank you very much, rate me insigfully funny!
Math belongs in the olympics more than gymnastics, rhythmic gymnastics, figure skating, water ballet. and diving do. At least it's objective! The winner doesn't depend on the whims and prejudices of human judges.
I don't deny that the people compete in those events are amazingly talented, as are good ballerinas and painters. I sure hope we don't get olympic ballet or olympic painting events, though.
Any event where you get points for "artistic impression" and/or that depend completely on subjective criteria have no business being in the olympic games.
Yes, a soccer ref or linesman can mistakenly say a player was offside, or call a nonexistent foul. Yes, a baseball ump can miss a ball/strike call. But if that human error could be eliminated from the events with existing technology. The events I listed in the first sentence of this post all depend completely on subjective criteria. This leads to jokes about judges from rival nations giving bad scores. In the USA in the early 1980s, when everyone would agree that something was great, they'd give it a "ten" and often, some wag would pipe up with "2.3 from the Russian judge."
My point is that the very presence of events based on subjective criteria is a joke.
Math, despite not requiring physical skill (one of Bernard Suits's criteria for what makes something a sport, mentioned in TFA), is at least objective. One either gets the right answer or does not. One either proves something or does not. One either solves a problem in less time than one's opponent or does not. To me, that alone makes it more suitable for the olympics than any of the "sports" I listed in the first sentence.
The idiots in charge of the olympic broadcasts in the USA do not agree with me. Yes, I admit I'm still pissed off from the 1996 olympics, when they didn't show the men's basketball games because of f***ing women's gymnastic events. They didn't show USA-Argentina, which I would have loved to see, if only to discover how Argentina could stay within a few points of the second "Dream Team" until halftime.
Then, as if it hadn't been enough to show every trial from every competitor in every individual women's gymnastic event, and every trial from every competitor in every event in the individual all-around competition, and every (etc.) from the team all-around competition, they didn't show the women's soccer final (just the goals right after commercial breaks) because they felt it would be better to show a frickin' women's gymnastics unscored exhibition event than the women's soccer gold medal match. Sheesh!
--Mark
"It is nice to know that the computer understands the problem. But I would like to understand it too." --Eugene Wigner
But the Mathletes will never pass the drug testing.
Forget about math being a sport or not, imagine if mathematical prowess was as highly regarded in the US as running or jumping. Just imagine high schools where every student looked forward to and studied for the AHSME every year. Imagine colleges where all the talk on campus was on who made the first team for this year's Putnam. Just imagine such a world for a moment. Nobody degrades their fellow student for being smart, but instead admires them. Imagine the kind of movies and tv shows that would be popular in such a world. Imagine the kind of political leaders it would have. Imagine the amazing advances that would be made in a country where 200 million people knew calculus. Just imagine... Alright go back to your porn...
I think there is a market, albit a small one, to watch math competitions. However, I dont really think math will ever become known as a sport, especially among those non-geeks out there.
This will probably go the way of those Magic The Gathering Tournaments that we sometimes see on ESPN late at night
Click here to find out what true knowledge real
Have a look at "Achilles' Choice" by Larry Niven & Steve Barnes; future olympiads required atheletes to have a corresponding intellectual pursuit of equal calibre to win the gold. Interesting premise, good read.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
Football players have been getting degrees for years.
Please bid on this Karmann Ghia! Please pleas
Don't confuse sports and athletics. Athletics is a subset of sports, else there would be no reason to use the 2 terms. There would only be a need for one. Chess is also a sport, but not an athletic. Math CAN be a sport, but can be used in a non-competitive manner.
Looks like you won't be competing in any type of intellectual sport, doesn't it?
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
NO
-> Fritz
Spooooon!!!!!
A LOT of things qualify as sport, including a gentleman farmer chasing the milkmaid, but since there is no physical component to math believe the answer is NO.
Accord to dictionary.com:
sport PPronunciation Key(spôrt, sprt)
n.
Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
A particular form of this activity.
An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
An active pastime; recreation.
Mockery; jest: He made sport of his own looks.
An object of mockery, jest, or play: treated our interests as sport.
A joking mood or attitude: She made the remark in sport.
One known for the manner of one's acceptance of rules, especially of a game, or of a difficult situation: a poor sport.
Informal. One who accepts rules or difficult situations well.
Informal. A pleasant companion: was a real sport during the trip.
Informal.
A person who lives a jolly, extravagant life.
A gambler at sporting events.
Biology. An organism that shows a marked change from the normal type or parent stock, typically as a result of mutation.
Maine. See summercater. See Regional Note at summercater.
Obsolete. Amorous dalliance; lovemaking.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
Any "sport" that you can drink beer while playing is not a sport. This eliminates darts, poker, rec league softball, bowling, golf, horseshoes, bocci, billiards, and, yes, math.
Get off my lawn.
If you practice it, do you still get wedgies from the jocks?
If so, it's probably not a sport.
Math doesn't pass muster. Speaking as a former high school math team member.
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
In the same way that the spelling bee is a sport, and the debate society is a team sport.
On your marks!
Get set!
Debate!
maybe if you combine it with two other sports - swim 500 yards, solve a diffferential equation, then pick up a rifle and hit a target.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
I propose that the first Mathletic games be held in Mathens, Greece
<ducks/>
> But: I am a math nerd, and have never beaten anyone up (including myself or any another math nerd).
That depends on whether self abuse counts as beating up...
free donuts!
Truthfully, I really did enjoy math meets back in high school, free donuts (or sometimes pizza) were just an added benefit. And besides, there aren't that many clubs that look better than math team on your transcript when you apply to a technical college.
Break the mindless monotony!
I would have to say that what makes a sport a sport is that the people who do it consider it a sport. Take cheerleading for example, for a football game, its not much of a sport, but if performed against other squads as a sport, it becomes one. Similar to musical groups like competitive bands or drum and bugle corps. Sport is more about spirit than about a textbook definition. If you think about it, this holds true for running, throwing, swimming, lifting and any other sport where competition is not part of the actual event, like say baseball or basketball, or any team sport really.
Math can be a sport according to Godel's incompleteness theorum, which states that no sport can be both consistent and complete. Mark
Poll by the same title over on ursine.ca.
::sweating and gasping for breath::
::whew::... I need a drink.
Factoring large composite numbers takes forever if you have an abacus the size of your front yard...
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Don't get me wrong, I love chess, and I love math, and it's always great to see both fields get some exposure. But I don't see any reason why they should try to impose themselves on a completely unrelated competition, merely because it's a big international competition and would get them publicity.
I am the man with no sig!
In case anyone is curious, the problems from the IMO this year. Four and half hours for each set of three:
Day 1
Problem 1
ABC is acute angle triangle with AB not equal to AC. The circle with diameter BC intersects the lines AB and AC respectively at M and N. O is the midpoint of BC. The bisectors of angle BAC and angle MON intersect at R. Prove that the circumcircles of thev triangles BMR and CNR have a common point lying on the line BC.
Problem 2
Find all polynomials f with real coefficients such that, for all reals a,b,c such that ab+bc+ca = 0, we have the relation
f(a-b) + f(b-c) + f(c-a) = 2 f(a+b+c)
Problem 3
Define a "hook" to be a figure made up of six unit squares as shown by the &s in the figure below, or any of the figures obtained by rotations and reflections to this figure.
&&&
&@&
&@@
(@s are just place holders)
Determine all mxn rectangles that can be covered without gaps and without overlaps with hooks such that no point of a hook covers area outside the rectangle.
Day 2
Problem 4
Let n>=3 be an integer. Let t[1],...,t[n] be positive real numbers such that n^2+1 is greater than (t[1]+...+t[n])(1/t[1]+...+1/t[n]) Show that, for all distinct i,j,k, t[i],t[j],t[k] are the side lengths of a triangle.
Problem 5
In a convex quadrilateral ABCD, the diagonal BD bisects neither angle ABC nor angle CDA. A point P lies inside ABCD and satisfies angle PBC = angle DBA and angle PDC = angle BDA. Prove that ABCD are concyclic if and only if AP = CP.
Problem 6
A positive integer is alternating if every two consecutive digits in its decimal representation are of different parity. Find all positive integers n such that n has a multiple which is alternating.
(From Ignacio Larrosa Cañestro on sci.math)
The incompleteness proof is a lie.
"Gosh, what a ridiculous question! Here's my 934-word answer..."
...if it was, at least there would be ONE sport where steroid abuse wasn't rampant.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
because of this definition, lot of us like to dispute whether GOLF is actuall a sport. personally I think it's a game, but definately not a sport.
my blog
However competitive chess attracts large numbers of people, has newspaper columns and tv shows. Go is similar and I sometimes watch tv shows in Japan that have a man/woman team who explain all the moves. (The man is the expert, the woman is usually a little less expert but far cuter!) I enjoy it and don't know go to well, it is kind of like watching sumo wrestling but more meditative.. you get a droning rhythm from another invisible man who calls out 20 seconds, 10 seconds, 5 seconds for how much time is left each turn.
Another data point. In high school I was the youngest member on a team that competed in the American Computer Science League (ACSL) which at the time was a contest between 900 schools. Despite my terrible contribution somehow our team won against the archrival which always won in the past. Anyway I remember very well doin well with kleene stars as if it was a scored goal. And we played "We are the champions" on a big boom box. (Steve Hayes if you are out there write back!) this was 1985 so it must be bigger now. A much better publicized event is the robocon I believe it's called, where tons of highschools build robots to battle each other (in Japan, televised with huge audiences). The winners generally are very talented and undoubtedly go on to get great jobs.
I see the ACSL now has a website. There seem to be less schools now but the prizes are better.. digital cameras! Also the winners get Microsoft subscriptions which sounds like a booby prize to me. Wouldn't it be nice if they could get some books on Haskell, a copy of mathematica, or (if there is one) a nice open source math-related program?
IANA Mathematician but a common saying is that a mathematical truth is "discovered", in other words it always existed in a sort of mathematical field that interpenetrates the universe. Math is our window on the universe. One physicist recently is said to have proved that mathematical logic in fact is the basis of the universe.
But you can have intellectual sports, and there is a mathematical element in most competitions in one way or another. If the word "sport" is a problem then it can be called something else.
And who knows, the making of universes may even be a sport, to Someone, though I hope not on a level of the punning in this thread. It's all a matter of perspective.
p.s. I was wrong, it was allstars 83-84 and we were Montclair Kimberley Academy. And it says 38 teams so I think the hundreds number must have been from the pre-finals. I remember now the road trip to get there. If you have a road trip and fans, it must be a sport no? Try your hand at the programming problems..
Just FYI, you fellow Americans out there probably know Takeshi's Castle better as (the dubbed and heavily edited) Most Extreme Elimination Challenge.
TMYK!
Yes, this is the winner for the answer. We've all become accustomed to associating physical exertion or physical acuity with sport. However, from a definition point of view, a sport is mearly something that provides a diversion. Basically, if someone is willing to watch it, then it is a sport. So in that vain of thought, if someone is willing to watch me post to slashdot, then posting to slashdot is a sport!
Spelling B's
Jigsaw puzzling
Crosswords
Hide-n-seek
Limbo
Pie Eating
If math is a sport, does that mean AOL is the special olympics?
Forgot my account name and pass so Anonymous Coward it is ...
So back in high school, I competed in the AMC and AIME and did well enough (among 200 people in the US) to qualify to take the USAMO (after which would come the MOSP and IMO had I gone further (http://www.unl.edu/amc/)). These contests left me more tired and drained than playing basketball in the same time would.
Also, our school competed in the regional math league and state math league. Basically, any one of these competitions is as close to a sport as you could get. They all require focus, concentration, mental ability, and even physical ability because if you're tired, you won't do as well. There were awards for teams that placed. There were grudges between teams that would always beat each other. There were the teams that always won, the teams that always lost, the underdogs, etc.. I've always thought of mental activities (math/chess/poker) as sports just because they all have the same elements as physical sports and 2 6-hour games of chess in a day or thinking about a single chess move for 30 minutes is far harder than making a ball go into a hole.
In another newsgroup there is a discussion: When will we get a Nobel prize in golf?
In order for something to qualify as a sport, there need to be accepted rules in place to determine who wins and loses, or what the participants' scores are. Math itself cannot be "won".
You can have math competitions, of course. These have rules. But the problem is that there is no accepted standard for how the competition actually works. Different mathematics competitions are very different, (oral vs. written, etc.) If you say math is a sport, there are many different kinds of event you might be considering.
Mathematics is an area of research. There may be competitions and prizes based on it, but that doesn't make it a sport. Such competitions are just separate games that involve math (or not games at all). You could invent a game that involved throwing rocks. Though the game you invented may be a sport, that doesn't make rocks a sport. (And no, if you name the game "Rocks" it doesn't change anything.)
The formalists thought it was a "game" -- which is to say a formal system interesting mainly because of the relations between various components in the system.
/= formal systems interesting because of the relations between its elements. besides, all systems have this quality, not just formal systems, so this alone wouldn't qualify them as interesting.
maths is a game
Unfortunately, that was only fun for a little while until Gödel's Incompleteness Proof successfully proved that not all truths of arithmetic could be proved using the rules of arithmetic.
godel's incompleteness theorem is not just about this. it states that any systems that are complex enough to refer to itself are either inconsistent/contradictory, or contains axioms (i.e., propositions that cannot be deducted/proved from within the system and are accepted without proof). now this has nothing to do with maths (or formal systems) being fun. or if it does, it only added to its fun, as it made people embrace the thitherto much hated paradoxes. paradoxes *are* interesting, they can set the mind to work like few things can. in fact, godel used epimenides's paradox: epimenides was a cretan, and he stated that "all cretans are liars". this was the statement that godel formalized thereby creating the incompleteness theorem.
So the real question here is "Are all sports games?" If so, and it seems quite reasonable, then quite objectively the answer to "Is mathematics a sport?" is no. (Ok, so only if all games are formal systems...)
i don't see your logic. this is true, yes: 1) all sports are games 2) all games are formal systems C) maths is a sport (implicit premise: math is a formal system, but i think we'd accept that)
but the fact that the above conclusion is true doesn't mean that the opposite is true either. check it out: 1) all sports are games ("if so...") 2) not all games are formal systems Conclusion: maths is not a sport.
there's no way you can draw such a conclusion based on logic (esp. "quite objectively").
now this would also bring up the question of the definition of "game," which is yet to be created. no soothing definition of game has been created yet (though there're many passable ones). now what is sport? the word derives from "disport." in fact, it was a variant of that word up until modern english. disport literally meant to carry, which suggests that there's an element of physical work involved. later, however, it became to mean to play, or to amuse. so according to etymology, maths can well be a sport.
but, really, this all comes down to tradition. what people are used to mean under sport. some people now might oppose, but their children might learn the word to include all kind of mental activities as well (not just chess).
If math is a cookie, then yes, math is a sport.
turn it around and say "sport is full of math!" ...
hours and hours of grueling intgration and
differantion (analysis), vector geometry, etc
Ciao
So, why do you consider that it isn't a sport? IMHO, tis not having less challeng in it than Chess do, so the question really should be ``What a _sport_ is?''. If it is meant to mean ``a challenge'' || ``a competition'', than math is.
What does it matter whether something can be classified as "sport" or not?
No, really. Imagine it!
-FL
Can we all be called "math jocks" then?
Quite simply, those things we term sports today, were in ancient times contests of military fitness. For that reason, shooting weapons fit right in with javelins (Shaka), running (achilles), swimming and sailing (piracy), wrestling, boxing, fencing, and so on.
In a way, the Olympics of ancient Greece may have been a way to test military prowess without the waste of needless war. Of course, with the sports in those times, there was no problem with cheating and doping, much less the joke of professional/amature status. Not because they didn't do it -- they did -- but all's fair in war, as they say, and all was fair in the ancient Olympics as well. And being military, yes, sometimes people did get killed.
The bit about fair sportsmanship, amature status, and so on, was a way that the British lords who began the more modern olympics, could compete and do well without being the actual best. The best fighters, runners, and boxers, of course, did it for money. They still do.
So is math a sport? As soon as doing quick math can be shown to be an advantage in battle, I'll agree that it is. Mortar marksmanship (complete with tracers), for example, might be a valid use.
Until then, I'd say no. Math is just a fun competition.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Okay, a man goes big game hunting in Africa with a fine pointer dog and a guide -- but he doesn't get a single lion. Indeed, he never even sees a lion. Why not?
Well, as anyone learns in Geometry class, it takes to points to determine a lion.
-----
Bonus jokes, not related to big game hunting:
Prove that the integral of d[cabin]/(cabin) is [houseboat].
Also, what do you get when you cross a pointer with a mountain climber? [You can't do it. A pointer is clearly a vector, but a mountain climber is a scalar. Cross product requires 2 vectors]
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Meanwhile, the generals can sit back and point, "That one. Put him on my team. He'll probably kill a few before going down himself."
Thinkers don't put themselves in the line of fire because they know how to THINK.
-FL
No, it's an art. Science tries to figure out how the world works by forming hypotheses and testing them with experiment. Maths never worries about the real world in that way; it's a creative, abstract activity, takes considerable discipline to master, with its own idea of beauty. Its only distinguishing feature among the arts is a strict notion of correctness (again, based in reason not experiment), although one could simply make it an indispensible part of beauty.
Disclaimer: My degree is maths, so I have some vague idea what I'm talking about =p
Hummmm . . . Nobel Prize for mathematics? How about the Fields Medal? Try Google => almaz.com/nobel/why_no_math.html.
As for whether math is a sport: I don't think so, myself. But under Suits' criteria, organ playing is a sport.
I couldn't agree more. Frankly there is way too much crap in the olympics now anyway, and its original idea (to find out who the biggest beefcake was) has been entirely lost by the fact that entrants compete only in one sport.
But aside from the specialty competitors, the real problem with the olympics is all the bullshit that is scored subjectively. Figure skating? Synchonized swimming? Both of these should be scored based on computer analysis or not included in the olympics at all. If you are not working toward a concrete metric, and the opinions of the judges based on the costumes, your lighting, and how many cups of coffee they have had that day can all effect your score, then it is not a sport, it is an art.
The olympics is already fucked up. Let's not fuck it up worse. It's supposed to be a celebration and comparison of physical prowess. The nerds can have their own olympics.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I was on the Math Team in high school ... and I was Team Captain my senior year. That year, I came to the conclusion that since Math Team got the same letter jacket patches as the athletic activities, and since we were representing our team competitively against other schools just like the athletic teams, we should get the same "benefits" as the athletic teams. The first benefit we asked for - we needed to have cheerleaders.
Request was denied. :-(
We decided not to ask for the pep rally. :-)
Team-building? Communication skills? Improved co-ordination?
If it doesn't make good television, then certainly the answer is a big fat resounding NO.
Math is an ART form...not a sport
Does basketball have a military application, any more than synchronized swimming does?
I think the definition of sport has changed a bit since the ancient Greeks were around.
I wore it on my high school jacket with pride. Seriously!
Now that I think of it, I wonder why I never got beaten to a pulp for being such a dork.
- a.c.
At one of my schools we had award ceremonies for each subject every 6 weeks or so... and the certificates for French (for example) were handed out by the French Ambassador (well, his kids did go to school there). That's one way to encourage schoolwork I guess.
Anybody remember that Sliders episode (Eggheads) where Quinn ended up in a world where intellectualism is the main sport?
I think it articulates the argument perfectly: a sport is a sport when enough people agree that its a sport.
A sport is an olympic sport if the IOC agrees that its a sport.
The definitions are always arbitrary.
Math is not a sport. Neither is sig testing.
"Even for Slashdot, that was a very obscure reference!" - Anonymous Coward
Was I a participant in math/science/mind olympics? Yes.
Did I miss the recognition that sports start received? Yes.
But in the end, I was having a blast, my parents and friends (loads of geeks... some girls) thought it was cool, and the recognition I did get was worth it.
Long-term, the recognition I get is that I have a well-paid job that I enjoy. My school was one of the best schools in the state for sports and I don't know a single athlete that made it in sports...