>I guess it has never occurred to you that your duty when building a system is to provide your customer with the best possible choice for him, rather than forcing your own religion on him.
No it hasn't occurred to me. I would never compromise my ethics just because a customer wanted something. They don't run my life, I do. I have been asked for all kinds of illegal and unethical things by customers including "hack my competitors network" and "write me something that will zombie that machine" and even "find a me keylogger and install it on all my employees desktops". I have always said something like "I don't feel comfortable doing that" and refused the job.
But hey that's just me. I know not everybody is like me. I know that the people who asked me for those things eventually hired other people (like you!) to come in and do those things.
>And you call that ethics?
Well yes. Absolutely. Principles are not principles if you are willing to ditch them to make money.
I know full well different people have different ethical and moral standards and that most people are willing to let aside their ethics and morals for money.
If an IP address makes more then X connections to my SMTP port at the same time it gets routed to a teergrube. If an IP address attempts to send email to Y number of invalid users it gets routed to a teergrube. If an IP address sends me Z number of spam as marked by spamassassin it gets routed to a teergrube. If an IP address is on the RBL of my choice it gets routed to a teergrube.
And of course a teergrube which can handle a few hundred simultaneous connections and keep them busy for hours.
If we all had all this then at least we could make a dent in the amount of spam going out.
>Wow. I use the "the best tool for the job" approach rather than the Jihad approach
Once again, when making your decision you do not any ethics or principles or morals enter into your decision making process. You only judge the product. You clearly think ethics, morals, and principles have no role to play when you are shopping for your products and services.
Most people are like you.
Some people are not. Those people let their ethical judgement and moral upbringing play a role in their choices as a customer.
Not everybody is like you. Some people have a stronger sense of ethics.
No, not really. Let's say I submitted a patch some program. There is a 0% chance of any MS copyrighted work being in that code because I have never seen MS code.
>Sure, reverse engineering MS object code is harder than cut/copy/paste source code made available direct from Microsoft. I don't think Novell would do that, but obviously some people think they might.
Why wouldn't they do that? It's a corporation, if MS gave it 500 million dollars to do that then they would.
>But it doesn't change the ability of anyone inserting patented code into stuff they shouldn't. And thus, Microsoft is a threat everyone.
MS is only a threat if the programmer had been exposed to MS code, trade secrets, or practices.
>Novell offering to support the EFF isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Normally I would agree with you. At this time I don't.
Because principles are important to some people. Apparently they are not important to you but not everybody is like you. Some people boycott unethical and sleazy companies. Some people only buy dolphin safe tuna. Some people only drink fair trade coffee. Some people don't shop at walmart.
MS is a sleazy, unethical company run by people who are borderline sociopaths. There are lots of reasons not to support the corporation by buying it's products. When you buy MS products you are supporting them and their actions.
You support MS, most people do. Some people don't. Why is that hard to understand?
It has nothing to do with anger. It has to do with patented MS code contaminating GPLed code. Novell can either willingly or unwillingly inject MS patented and copyrighted code into the GPLed codebase so software from Novell should not be trusted unless the developer takes a legally binding oath that he was not exposed to any MS code or IP.
MS won't sue anybody. They will transfer the patents to a third party. The third party will get investment from MS, MS executives, their buddies and others to the tune of a few million. The third party will sue.
The third party will not be developing any software so there is no chance of a counter infringement claim. The third party will not be a signatory to any contracts and agreements MS signed with Sun, Novell or anybody else.
See how that works. The MS executives are sleazy dirtbags but they are not stupid.
When it comes to patents Ms has an obligation to inform the infringer and give them a chance to either license or work around the problem. They have to duty to try and minimize damage to them.
"Whether or not they would be upheld in court is a different matter, but it would be enough to prevent a small group of programmers from threatening their cash flow."
Apparently not because the small developers are daring MS to sue them.
I see this going the way of lindows. Ms sues Lindows. Lindows challenges Ms trademark. Ms knows they are going to lose. Ms pays lindows a bunch of money to withdraw their suit.
The way I see it Ms will sue and then pay the people they are suing in exchange for dropping their challenge to Ms patents.
This could be a good money making scheme and I think Ms is stupid enough to actually take these people up on their dare.
"Oh for the love of root. Nobody is about to be sued by Microsoft. That's just a bluff, a good old fashioned piece of FUD, nothing more."
The CEO of a corporation says they are going so sue then I would take that pretty seriously. Of course it could be that the CEO is a lying sack of shit but are the lawyers and the rest of the executive staff lying sacks of shit too?
"But hey, even if someone were, what makes you so sure Linus could do something about it? "
He could use his bully pulpit. He does have a voice, he could speak out.
"You're probably thinking about him switching Linux to GPLv3, but I have to say, even if that were feasible, I'm not convinced at all that it would be a change for the better. In fact, if the new GPL is designed to do this sort of thing, trying to bind and control people who don't even distribute, then it's starting to look quite evil to me."
I wasn't thinking that. I don't think he ever will. Having said that he doesn't "own" linux and the developers wanted to they could fork a GPL3 version.
"Btw, that BK "fiasco" was a lot noise, indeed, but look at the bright side: nobody got sued, nobody even acted unfairly (not even Larry McVoy, who was entirely within his right to be an asshole)."
McVoy was an asshole, he acted like an asshole. A lawsuit was averted because Linus stopped using it. I am sure if he kept using it then he would have been sued. If history is going to be repeated then the same thing will happen here. MS will threaten a lawsuit and Linus will stop using whatever they want him to stop using.
I don't think it will be that much of a hurdle. Most are probably still around. If anybody can't be contacted then the code could be re-written. All linus has to do is to ask and I bet the community can get in touch with everybody.
"Linus just seems to have a different philosophy. He doesn't seem to care too much about the whole political aspect of free software"
That's true. He just doesn't care. I really thought that after the bitkeeper fiasco he would care but he still doesn't care. Maybe if he was sued he might care but I don't think anything short of that will make him care. He doesn't seem to care if other people are sued and that makes me sad. People who use is operating system are about to be sued by MS and he won't do anything about it.
Look you are well known MS fanboi here but this time your company fucked up. Ballmer is no Gates. He is a stupid fuck and he let this one get away from him. Probably because he lacks the ability to see that far ahead or that the only people left at MS are those that have no conscience and who can tolerate his profanity and abuse. The really smart people have all left MS and it seems like that includes the legal dept.
There is one other possibility here. Some underling could have purposefully sabotaged the master plan by omitting the expiration date. Not likely but possible.
Let's face it your favorite corporation is no longer the giant that it once was. It keeps bumbling from one disaster to another. Maybe you should pick a new favorite corporation. I suggest toshiba, they make fine VCRs.
Don't be so sure. Maybe even linus will wake up after this. You'd think the whole bitkeeper fiasco would have thought him the importance of free software but apparently it didn't.
On the other hand he may not care about anybody else getting sued, as long as he isn't sued he might not care.
Americans have been browbeaten into submissiveness. Even here on slashdot you will get many people who hate protests of any sort and hate people who protest. I remember there was a guy whose signature was something like "when I hear the word activist I reach for my gun".
What is your objection really? This is huge news. MS is about to unleash a slew of lawsuits against companies that USE linux. That's historic. It's also an earthshaking development in the war against open source by Microsoft.
If this isn't newsworthy to a geek site I don't know what is. I say keep it on the front page every day. MS is about the spend billions suing open source developers, distributors, and customers. I think that deserves all the attention it's getting and more.
BTW where are all the MS employees and fanboys these days? I would like to hear from MS employees what they think of their company suing people who might write open source software in C#, DLR, F#, ironpython or whatever and then getting sued by MS because it violates a patent of the parsing of XML or some such bullshit.
All that talk about silverlight being open source kind of goes dark doesn't it? Sure it's open source but don't code a mail client in it because we have dozens of patents on checking mail.
Slashdot Mirror
I hear AOLserver + TCL is also blazingly fast.
Wow, who modded this idiot up?
Doesn't seem odd to be complaining about the speed of mysql cluster when the pgcluster web site hasn't been updated since 2005?
>I guess it has never occurred to you that your duty when building a system is to provide your customer with the best possible choice for him, rather than forcing your own religion on him.
No it hasn't occurred to me. I would never compromise my ethics just because a customer wanted something. They don't run my life, I do. I have been asked for all kinds of illegal and unethical things by customers including "hack my competitors network" and "write me something that will zombie that machine" and even "find a me keylogger and install it on all my employees desktops". I have always said something like "I don't feel comfortable doing that" and refused the job.
But hey that's just me. I know not everybody is like me. I know that the people who asked me for those things eventually hired other people (like you!) to come in and do those things.
>And you call that ethics?
Well yes. Absolutely. Principles are not principles if you are willing to ditch them to make money.
I know full well different people have different ethical and moral standards and that most people are willing to let aside their ethics and morals for money.
Here is what I would like.
If an IP address makes more then X connections to my SMTP port at the same time it gets routed to a teergrube.
If an IP address attempts to send email to Y number of invalid users it gets routed to a teergrube.
If an IP address sends me Z number of spam as marked by spamassassin it gets routed to a teergrube.
If an IP address is on the RBL of my choice it gets routed to a teergrube.
And of course a teergrube which can handle a few hundred simultaneous connections and keep them busy for hours.
If we all had all this then at least we could make a dent in the amount of spam going out.
>Wow. I use the "the best tool for the job" approach rather than the Jihad approach
Once again, when making your decision you do not any ethics or principles or morals enter into your decision making process. You only judge the product. You clearly think ethics, morals, and principles have no role to play when you are shopping for your products and services.
Most people are like you.
Some people are not. Those people let their ethical judgement and moral upbringing play a role in their choices as a customer.
Not everybody is like you. Some people have a stronger sense of ethics.
>But isn't that also true of any developer?
No, not really. Let's say I submitted a patch some program. There is a 0% chance of any MS copyrighted work being in that code because I have never seen MS code.
>Sure, reverse engineering MS object code is harder than cut/copy/paste source code made available direct from Microsoft. I don't think Novell would do that, but obviously some people think they might.
Why wouldn't they do that? It's a corporation, if MS gave it 500 million dollars to do that then they would.
>But it doesn't change the ability of anyone inserting patented code into stuff they shouldn't. And thus, Microsoft is a threat everyone.
MS is only a threat if the programmer had been exposed to MS code, trade secrets, or practices.
>Novell offering to support the EFF isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Normally I would agree with you. At this time I don't.
Hello I am from microsoft and I am a liar.
Because principles are important to some people. Apparently they are not important to you but not everybody is like you. Some people boycott unethical and sleazy companies. Some people only buy dolphin safe tuna. Some people only drink fair trade coffee. Some people don't shop at walmart.
MS is a sleazy, unethical company run by people who are borderline sociopaths. There are lots of reasons not to support the corporation by buying it's products. When you buy MS products you are supporting them and their actions.
You support MS, most people do. Some people don't. Why is that hard to understand?
It has nothing to do with anger. It has to do with patented MS code contaminating GPLed code. Novell can either willingly or unwillingly inject MS patented and copyrighted code into the GPLed codebase so software from Novell should not be trusted unless the developer takes a legally binding oath that he was not exposed to any MS code or IP.
MS won't sue anybody. They will transfer the patents to a third party. The third party will get investment from MS, MS executives, their buddies and others to the tune of a few million. The third party will sue.
The third party will not be developing any software so there is no chance of a counter infringement claim.
The third party will not be a signatory to any contracts and agreements MS signed with Sun, Novell or anybody else.
See how that works. The MS executives are sleazy dirtbags but they are not stupid.
When it comes to patents Ms has an obligation to inform the infringer and give them a chance to either license or work around the problem. They have to duty to try and minimize damage to them.
"Whether or not they would be upheld in court is a different matter, but it would be enough to prevent a small group of programmers from threatening their cash flow."
Apparently not because the small developers are daring MS to sue them.
I see this going the way of lindows. Ms sues Lindows. Lindows challenges Ms trademark. Ms knows they are going to lose. Ms pays lindows a bunch of money to withdraw their suit.
The way I see it Ms will sue and then pay the people they are suing in exchange for dropping their challenge to Ms patents.
This could be a good money making scheme and I think Ms is stupid enough to actually take these people up on their dare.
Why can't MS office support ODF?
"Oh for the love of root. Nobody is about to be sued by Microsoft. That's just a bluff, a good old fashioned piece of FUD, nothing more."
The CEO of a corporation says they are going so sue then I would take that pretty seriously. Of course it could be that the CEO is a lying sack of shit but are the lawyers and the rest of the executive staff lying sacks of shit too?
"But hey, even if someone were, what makes you so sure Linus could do something about it? "
He could use his bully pulpit. He does have a voice, he could speak out.
"You're probably thinking about him switching Linux to GPLv3, but I have to say, even if that were feasible, I'm not convinced at all that it would be a change for the better. In fact, if the new GPL is designed to do this sort of thing, trying to bind and control people who don't even distribute, then it's starting to look quite evil to me."
I wasn't thinking that. I don't think he ever will. Having said that he doesn't "own" linux and the developers wanted to they could fork a GPL3 version.
"Btw, that BK "fiasco" was a lot noise, indeed, but look at the bright side: nobody got sued, nobody even acted unfairly (not even Larry McVoy, who was entirely within his right to be an asshole)."
McVoy was an asshole, he acted like an asshole. A lawsuit was averted because Linus stopped using it. I am sure if he kept using it then he would have been sued. If history is going to be repeated then the same thing will happen here. MS will threaten a lawsuit and Linus will stop using whatever they want him to stop using.
And do what? Defend corporations from the mean old people at slashdot?
I don't think it will be that much of a hurdle. Most are probably still around. If anybody can't be contacted then the code could be re-written. All linus has to do is to ask and I bet the community can get in touch with everybody.
"Linus just seems to have a different philosophy. He doesn't seem to care too much about the whole political aspect of free software"
That's true. He just doesn't care. I really thought that after the bitkeeper fiasco he would care but he still doesn't care. Maybe if he was sued he might care but I don't think anything short of that will make him care. He doesn't seem to care if other people are sued and that makes me sad. People who use is operating system are about to be sued by MS and he won't do anything about it.
what kind of a dumbass are you anyway?
Look you are well known MS fanboi here but this time your company fucked up. Ballmer is no Gates. He is a stupid fuck and he let this one get away from him. Probably because he lacks the ability to see that far ahead or that the only people left at MS are those that have no conscience and who can tolerate his profanity and abuse. The really smart people have all left MS and it seems like that includes the legal dept.
There is one other possibility here. Some underling could have purposefully sabotaged the master plan by omitting the expiration date. Not likely but possible.
Let's face it your favorite corporation is no longer the giant that it once was. It keeps bumbling from one disaster to another. Maybe you should pick a new favorite corporation. I suggest toshiba, they make fine VCRs.
Don't be so sure. Maybe even linus will wake up after this. You'd think the whole bitkeeper fiasco would have thought him the importance of free software but apparently it didn't.
On the other hand he may not care about anybody else getting sued, as long as he isn't sued he might not care.
That's the thing nobody is afraid of MS. MS has lied so much about so many things that nobody believes anything they say anymore.
Americans have been browbeaten into submissiveness. Even here on slashdot you will get many people who hate protests of any sort and hate people who protest. I remember there was a guy whose signature was something like "when I hear the word activist I reach for my gun".
We are just sheep now.
You know how the SCO lawsuit slowed adoption? It will be just like that.
What is your objection really? This is huge news. MS is about to unleash a slew of lawsuits against companies that USE linux. That's historic. It's also an earthshaking development in the war against open source by Microsoft.
If this isn't newsworthy to a geek site I don't know what is. I say keep it on the front page every day. MS is about the spend billions suing open source developers, distributors, and customers. I think that deserves all the attention it's getting and more.
BTW where are all the MS employees and fanboys these days? I would like to hear from MS employees what they think of their company suing people who might write open source software in C#, DLR, F#, ironpython or whatever and then getting sued by MS because it violates a patent of the parsing of XML or some such bullshit.
All that talk about silverlight being open source kind of goes dark doesn't it? Sure it's open source but don't code a mail client in it because we have dozens of patents on checking mail.
You remember how the SCO lawsuit inhibited OSS developement? It will be just like that.