--Prayer for Avoiding the Notice of Mighty Cthulhu-- O Mighty Cthulhu, Destroyer of Worlds, Betrayer of Hope, Unstoppable Force of Annihilation, Please cast your attention towards someone else. I really don't care who. Feel free to eat my neighbor, my spouse, my dog. Anyone that isn't me. Cthulhu fhtagn, Cthulhu fhtagn! Please go back to fhtagn-ing, whatever that may be.
The life is over developer-wise at 30 mentality makes no sense to me. It's about that time that you *really* start to actually know what you're doing and stop making so many stupid mistakes.
I just don't understand why so many places want to start back at square one every 9 years (if that long) and make themselves completely out of people that are fairly new to the game and make the same mistakes as the people who came in before them when they were their age. There really should be a mix of older and younger people on the team if you have much of a choice because there's a heck of a lot to be said about experience (and I don't just mean experience in a language, but rather in the industry as a whole - knowing what works, what doesn't, and how to get around it)
Actually, these ones are accessable via POTS. It made Off the Hook last week or the week before if I remember correctly.
No need to pack around a laptop, voip equipment, etc. Just find a phone, dial in, and act like you're having a conversation while you write down the numbers.
Let's see. Up to this point, I've been accused of being a windows shill, a sun shill, a java fanboy, a believer in intelligent design, and various other things.
Personally, this amuses the hell out of me. I'm a rather moderate, pragmatic person, really. I like the plug and play nature of most hardware with windows (and wish I could get that with linux. Especially wireless cards. A lot of things work out of the box, but the things that don't are a real pain.), but I realize that it has to be locked down for security. I even know how to do that.
I like Sun's hardware and spent my time in college using Solaris boxes for programming. I like linux for some things and realize that it could be better in other areas (as can every operating system).
I like java for doing some things, but I don't think it's a silver bullet - nothing is. I use Java, Perl, Ruby, C++, and various other things depending on the task at hand.
I never stated that I believed in ID. I do, however, think that people too moored in pure science miss a great deal in the world around them. Philosophy should be important to every person who claims they are a man/woman of science. It provides a wonderful balance. The really amusing thing is that the reason I got labeled as an ID person is because I basically stated that life tends to take the path of least resistance. Go figure.
I'm not a fanatic of anything, really, unless it's usability. I've even been told that I was anti-open source. This is especially funny since I was the executive editor of an open source enterprise magazine for a while. I actually like open source. I simply realize that it isn't the answer for every problem. There are places where it makes a great deal of sense and other places where it makes absolutely no sense at all.
This, in the eyes of some of the people here, makes me a horrible, unspeakable lout apparently.
As the parent poster, I find it amusing that I was modded into oblivion for pointing out that some of us use things other than just linux and stating that I'm tired of the fan club.
I don't want to be a part of a fan club. I want useable software without having to deal with "look at me! look at me!" when I decide that something else is more suited to the task at hand.
Personally, I'm speaking as someone who has used linux for several years, DOS since version 3, windows since 3.1, Solaris for 6+ years, and various other things along the way.
I disagree with this. The main reason is because you can't always gauge the value of a person in a workplace by what they produce.
Take for example someone in a software development shop that produces almost no code, but instead ends up figuring out and pointing out the problems with the designs as they stand. In measureable metrics, they produce almost nothing and are therefore worthless right?
Wrong. Fire them and see how far behind your project gets, how many bugs are created that wouldn't have been if the person was still there, etc.
There are actually people like that in a lot of different companies and they're more than worth their pay even though they don't "produce" anything because they allow the people who actually do produce things to do so better and/or more efficiently.
but basically all they said was that free speech can only be surpressed in situations where the student's speech interfered with the educational process.
That's part of the problem. Guess who decides what does and does not interfere with the educational process. Yes, a court can overturn it, but most people will never take it that far, because they either assume that the school is right or because they don't think it's worth fighting.
Actually, the legal battle with microsoft was because microsoft "extended" java by adding things to the core libraries instead of making their own packages.
This broke their implementation with regard to the spec. However, microsoft still called it Java (which it wasn't anymore since it didn't conform to spec).
I will never understand the hardcore C++ crowd's insistance on making things that look even remomtely like C++ into C++.
Many of those things were left out of java for a reason - they lead to insecure code and were common sources of foul ups by devs that used them without thinking or knowing what the heck they were really doing.
Try telling that to some of the people I know, though. Mention Java, and about the only reaction you'll ever get is "I don't want to hear it. Java sucks. End of discussion."
C++-alike isn't the only way to do an OO programming language.
Considering that the target audience for Java (after the plans for a language which would be used by things like remote controls fell through) was the plethora of C++ developers out there who wanted/would benefit from a language with a clean syntax, memory management, security, and a good number of built in libraries, it's not surprising at all that it looks kind of like C++.
After all, you don't look at your intended audience and say "we know you've been using this other thing for years, but we have something new that we think is better. However, you're going to have to forget everything you've been doing up to this point in order to use it."
Actually, AT&T owns a big portion of the backbone lines. There's a good chance that, pretty much no matter where your packets are going, they hit an AT&T controlled line at some point.
I don't see what's so daunting about eclipse. If they're new, the only features they really have to bother with are Open, New, the editor window, Save/Compile, the console at the bottom that says they have errors, and run as.
You have the same features in pretty much every other ide. The rest you can basically ignore until you want to look into it further.
I started out with edit in dos. When I got to unix in college, I went through pico and xemacs. At the same time, I was using Visual Studio 6 and Code Warrior on Windows.
Now it depends on what I'm doin and the platform - xemacs, pico, eclipse, visual studio and various other things.
To tell the truth, I still don't use half of the functionality for most of them. I'd be willing to wager that most people don't.
Oh, I see. All the open source developers just want other developers who will leave them the hell alone.
They don't want/need people to test their software and report legitimate bugs. They don't want suggestions from people who may be busy on other projects. And they certainly don't want someone to offer advice on how real people think.
Does that about sum up your take on things?
Personally, I think all three of those things ARE productive things to do for a project.
Attitudes like the one your display are what give open source developers as a whole a bad name, and most of them aren't like that. Just the overly vocal ones, unfortunately.
This attitude from some open source developers amuses me.
They want people to look at and use their work. If they didn't, they wouldn't put it out there and say "Look at me. Look at me. Use this!"
Then, when people start to use it and find problems with it (even if they submit detailed bug reports), the person writing the project gets in a huff and takes up the attitude that you have shown - "It's free. If you have a problem with it, sod off."
Gods forbid that anyone suggests new features or make suggestions with regard to interface layout (an area where most developers really need outside perspectives).
And, in the instance that someone just writes a program to learn some new things, take the user feedback as an opportunity to do just that - LEARN. Learn what common problems you are creating code-wise. Learn how people who might use your software think (contrary to popular belief, most of them actually do think). Learn how to get better at what you do.
Do you have to take abuse from end users? No. Should you avail yourself of the resources they present to you in the form of how they use the things that you make? Hell yes.
By the way - I'm not just an end user. I code too. I just do most of mine professionally.
Users who report bugs you already know about does not help you development efforts nor do they help others - so you might get pissed.
I disagree. Multiple bug reports for the same bug are a good indication that the bug should be moved up on your priority list because a lot of people are having that problem.
Bug fix priority scale: 1) Critical errors 2) Common errors 3) All other bugs based on severity/ease of repair
Slashdot Mirror
--Prayer for Avoiding the Notice of Mighty Cthulhu--
O Mighty Cthulhu,
Destroyer of Worlds,
Betrayer of Hope,
Unstoppable Force of Annihilation,
Please cast your attention
towards someone else.
I really don't care who.
Feel free to eat my neighbor,
my spouse, my dog.
Anyone that isn't me.
Cthulhu fhtagn, Cthulhu fhtagn!
Please go back to fhtagn-ing,
whatever that may be.
The life is over developer-wise at 30 mentality makes no sense to me. It's about that time that you *really* start to actually know what you're doing and stop making so many stupid mistakes.
I just don't understand why so many places want to start back at square one every 9 years (if that long) and make themselves completely out of people that are fairly new to the game and make the same mistakes as the people who came in before them when they were their age. There really should be a mix of older and younger people on the team if you have much of a choice because there's a heck of a lot to be said about experience (and I don't just mean experience in a language, but rather in the industry as a whole - knowing what works, what doesn't, and how to get around it)
"You can't destroy the Earth! That's where I keep all my stuff!!" - The Tick
Actually, these ones are accessable via POTS. It made Off the Hook last week or the week before if I remember correctly.
No need to pack around a laptop, voip equipment, etc. Just find a phone, dial in, and act like you're having a conversation while you write down the numbers.
Let's see. Up to this point, I've been accused of being a windows shill, a sun shill, a java fanboy, a believer in intelligent design, and various other things.
Personally, this amuses the hell out of me. I'm a rather moderate, pragmatic person, really. I like the plug and play nature of most hardware with windows (and wish I could get that with linux. Especially wireless cards. A lot of things work out of the box, but the things that don't are a real pain.), but I realize that it has to be locked down for security. I even know how to do that.
I like Sun's hardware and spent my time in college using Solaris boxes for programming. I like linux for some things and realize that it could be better in other areas (as can every operating system).
I like java for doing some things, but I don't think it's a silver bullet - nothing is. I use Java, Perl, Ruby, C++, and various other things depending on the task at hand.
I never stated that I believed in ID. I do, however, think that people too moored in pure science miss a great deal in the world around them. Philosophy should be important to every person who claims they are a man/woman of science. It provides a wonderful balance. The really amusing thing is that the reason I got labeled as an ID person is because I basically stated that life tends to take the path of least resistance. Go figure.
I'm not a fanatic of anything, really, unless it's usability. I've even been told that I was anti-open source. This is especially funny since I was the executive editor of an open source enterprise magazine for a while. I actually like open source. I simply realize that it isn't the answer for every problem. There are places where it makes a great deal of sense and other places where it makes absolutely no sense at all.
This, in the eyes of some of the people here, makes me a horrible, unspeakable lout apparently.
As the parent poster, I find it amusing that I was modded into oblivion for pointing out that some of us use things other than just linux and stating that I'm tired of the fan club.
I don't want to be a part of a fan club. I want useable software without having to deal with "look at me! look at me!" when I decide that something else is more suited to the task at hand.
Personally, I'm speaking as someone who has used linux for several years, DOS since version 3, windows since 3.1, Solaris for 6+ years, and various other things along the way.
Funny you should mention that. I was watching the news the other day and the stock ticker was going on merrily across the bottom of the screen.
Most things were down. Sun started out at +.10 when I first noticed. By the time I changed the channel, it was at +.16
I was about to say the same thing.
You know, there are those of us who use more than one operating system.
Do you work there now and can you get me in? =]
I thought it looked rather similar to the crayfish that I used to chase around creeks as a child.
I disagree with this. The main reason is because you can't always gauge the value of a person in a workplace by what they produce.
Take for example someone in a software development shop that produces almost no code, but instead ends up figuring out and pointing out the problems with the designs as they stand. In measureable metrics, they produce almost nothing and are therefore worthless right?
Wrong. Fire them and see how far behind your project gets, how many bugs are created that wouldn't have been if the person was still there, etc.
There are actually people like that in a lot of different companies and they're more than worth their pay even though they don't "produce" anything because they allow the people who actually do produce things to do so better and/or more efficiently.
I'd pay to see that
Tell that to Adelphia. They're bankrupt and looking to sell.
The first thing I did when I got my laptop from dell a couple of years ago?
Full reinstall (dual boot between xp pro and fedora)
but basically all they said was that free speech can only be surpressed in situations where the student's speech interfered with the educational process.
That's part of the problem. Guess who decides what does and does not interfere with the educational process. Yes, a court can overturn it, but most people will never take it that far, because they either assume that the school is right or because they don't think it's worth fighting.
Actually, the legal battle with microsoft was because microsoft "extended" java by adding things to the core libraries instead of making their own packages.
This broke their implementation with regard to the spec. However, microsoft still called it Java (which it wasn't anymore since it didn't conform to spec).
I will never understand the hardcore C++ crowd's insistance on making things that look even remomtely like C++ into C++.
Many of those things were left out of java for a reason - they lead to insecure code and were common sources of foul ups by devs that used them without thinking or knowing what the heck they were really doing.
Try telling that to some of the people I know, though. Mention Java, and about the only reaction you'll ever get is "I don't want to hear it. Java sucks. End of discussion."
C++-alike isn't the only way to do an OO programming language.
Considering that the target audience for Java (after the plans for a language which would be used by things like remote controls fell through) was the plethora of C++ developers out there who wanted/would benefit from a language with a clean syntax, memory management, security, and a good number of built in libraries, it's not surprising at all that it looks kind of like C++.
After all, you don't look at your intended audience and say "we know you've been using this other thing for years, but we have something new that we think is better. However, you're going to have to forget everything you've been doing up to this point in order to use it."
It just wouldn't make sense.
Could have something to do with the fact that Sun has started pushing Ubuntu on its server hardware.
Just a guess.
Actually, AT&T owns a big portion of the backbone lines. There's a good chance that, pretty much no matter where your packets are going, they hit an AT&T controlled line at some point.
I don't see what's so daunting about eclipse. If they're new, the only features they really have to bother with are Open, New, the editor window, Save/Compile, the console at the bottom that says they have errors, and run as.
You have the same features in pretty much every other ide. The rest you can basically ignore until you want to look into it further.
I started out with edit in dos. When I got to unix in college, I went through pico and xemacs. At the same time, I was using Visual Studio 6 and Code Warrior on Windows.
Now it depends on what I'm doin and the platform - xemacs, pico, eclipse, visual studio and various other things.
To tell the truth, I still don't use half of the functionality for most of them. I'd be willing to wager that most people don't.
Agreed on using an IDE. There is, however, something that most people here seem to have completely glossed over:
Java is a great and useful language, but it can be really painful to code in without using an editor that has code completion.
Oh, I see. All the open source developers just want other developers who will leave them the hell alone.
They don't want/need people to test their software and report legitimate bugs. They don't want suggestions from people who may be busy on other projects. And they certainly don't want someone to offer advice on how real people think.
Does that about sum up your take on things?
Personally, I think all three of those things ARE productive things to do for a project.
Attitudes like the one your display are what give open source developers as a whole a bad name, and most of them aren't like that. Just the overly vocal ones, unfortunately.
This attitude from some open source developers amuses me.
They want people to look at and use their work. If they didn't, they wouldn't put it out there and say "Look at me. Look at me. Use this!"
Then, when people start to use it and find problems with it (even if they submit detailed bug reports), the person writing the project gets in a huff and takes up the attitude that you have shown - "It's free. If you have a problem with it, sod off."
Gods forbid that anyone suggests new features or make suggestions with regard to interface layout (an area where most developers really need outside perspectives).
And, in the instance that someone just writes a program to learn some new things, take the user feedback as an opportunity to do just that - LEARN. Learn what common problems you are creating code-wise. Learn how people who might use your software think (contrary to popular belief, most of them actually do think). Learn how to get better at what you do.
Do you have to take abuse from end users? No. Should you avail yourself of the resources they present to you in the form of how they use the things that you make? Hell yes.
By the way - I'm not just an end user. I code too. I just do most of mine professionally.
Users who report bugs you already know about does not help you development efforts nor do they help others - so you might get pissed.
I disagree. Multiple bug reports for the same bug are a good indication that the bug should be moved up on your priority list because a lot of people are having that problem.
Bug fix priority scale:
1) Critical errors
2) Common errors
3) All other bugs based on severity/ease of repair