"A bit OT, but yes it is. I use a DWL-650+ with my SuSE 9 Pro laptop all the time (plug and play). Of course, YMMV.:-) "
Of course it will vary. If I take your endorsement to the store, and buy the same card based on the information you have given, I am more likely than not to come home with a completely incompatable device, made by a company that is vehemently anti-linux.
YOUR DWL-650+ works. That doesn't mean they all do (Many don't!) Some of them are TI, some are Realtek, and some are Prism2.
You can't tell which one by looking at the box. Will your vendor give you a written guarantee that the card you buy will work under Linux?
That's what I really want. A written admission by the vendor, taking the responsibility that the product is defective if it will not work under Linux.
I'd settle for a vendor who will guarantee that the product I buy will work with Linux.
Then, I don't really care if I get Netgear, Linksys, D-Link, because the vendor takes responsibility, not me. I don't feel moved to "boycott the entire technology", but I think a vendor that would take this responsibility for me would make paying full retail price for the cards worthwhile.
And if the manufacturer screws around and puts the same product code on another product, the vendor needs to scream bloody murder on my behalf.
I, the consumer, shouldn't be responsible for any of this. I know precisely what I want; a network card that works on my linux box. At the end of the day, all I want to know is the address of the vendor who will sell me this.
I'm tired of being treated as if I'm doing something wrong just because I want to buy hardware that works on Linux!
"That way, you can be assured that, if it's listed, it works."
If you say so. Didn't work out that way for me and Linksys WPC-11 devices. Also, it doesn't help if not one single item on the list of compatable devices is availabe from any vendor.
I still don't know whether I should stop looking for a driver for the SD card reader on my Toshiba Laptop, or if it will not be supported at all. I'd really like to know.
I never got over the frustration with the Wireless compatability list. See, the list is well done, and has lots of cards, and people seem to be working hard on it. The problem is, you cannot use the list as a resource to help you purchase a card! Many of the cards listed as compatable are either discontinued, have been changed to incompatable chipsets without changing the product model info, or else were only ever available in some regions.
What I always wanted, instead of a long list of cards that are not available, was a short list of cards that will definitely work, together with addresses of vendors who will sell such a card with a written assurance that the product I receive will indeed work under linux.
I was very upset when I bought a Broadcom device, thinking I was buying a Prism2 device. Even when you think you know what you're doing, you can get burned.
>while we're at it, does anyone know to pronounce >sudo? is it like "pseudo" (the way i say it), or >"SOOdoo" (the way a more experienced sysadmin >friend of mine says it)?
It's been a play on those two ideas from the beginning, so you're both right.
It's "su do" meaning "DO as SUperuser" But it's also "Sudo" as in "pseudo" as in, assumed identity.
"I propose madating that all rebates must be payable on the spot. At the point of purchase."
No kidding. Instead of *pretending* to give you a discount on the item, just do it.
I'm sure there is some logical reason why that is impossible, but I don't want to hear it. When I see a rebate price, I've already trained myself to ignore it, and compare it to another product in the same price range. Typically, another product at the before-rebate price is a better value.
All this stuff might make sense to the retailer, but as a customer, I don't give a crap about the retailer's agenda. As far as I'm concerned, the retailer should have exactly one motivation, and that is making me satisfied enough to return to his store.
"Even if you and your landlord have never been to court, chances are that the lease agreement is either a clone or a very close copy of a standard and legally scrutinised agreement."
If you read the GPL side by side with any other license that grants distribution privileges under copyright, I think you will tend find the GPL the less complicated of the two.
"A more interesting situation would be if anyone ever mounted a successful challenge against EULAs, which would surely cripple the GPL"
Why do you say that? The GPL isn't an EULA. The GPL doesn't even presume to restrict *use* in the sense that an EULA does, and it is quite explicit on this point. It bothers me when people refer to the GPL as a license respecting use of the software, because that misconception could be working against adoption of software, even when the believe is completely false.
> Since the GPL has never really been tested in >court...
You know, my lease with my landlord has never been tested in court either, but I don't think anyone would reasonably presume that I don't need to pay rent, or that I can be kicked out without a reason.
I have to wonder whether people who say "the GPL has never been tested" have actually READ the GPL. It is quite straightforward. You don't need to be particularly used to reading legal documents to understand it. Read it, and find one single ambiguity that would require a hearing in court in order to settle its validity.
If the law doesn't protect the GPL on its face without a struggle at every step, then NO licence agreement is safe. The GPL is as simple, straightforward, and unambiguous as it gets!
I picked up a set of sterling silver silverware at an estate sale, it was quite cheap and I liked the look of it. What I learned after I started using it, really surprised me. It is a subtle thing, but it has become somewhat important: Real silverware transmits to your hand, the temperature of the food.
It has a significant effect on the experience of eating things like hot soup or ice cream! Now, eating hot and cold food with plated flatware, or stainless, is just missing an element.
"However the techniques used probably vary from store to store"
I think they've changed quite a few policies since I and many others have complained, to various sate Attornies-General, BBB, etc. From other replies, it sounds as if they have added payment options, etc., and from your reply it sounds as though they take the contract a bit more seriously with the customer.
"In their defense, most healthclubs require either a large monthly payment"
You're defending their fee structure, which is okay I guess. My objection was the heavy-handed sales tactics they used. It got to the point that I felt I was being held against my will and was ready to call the police. This is well after I'd made it clear that I wasn't going to sign their contract. They expected me to sign it without reading it. They didn't have any answers to any of my questions, and when it was obvious that I wanted to leave, the guy blocked the door so that I would not leave. (In my state, that is misdemeanor assault!)
Whatever the contract says, whatever the financial considerations are, and whatever the club has to offer were irrelevant. At as certain point in the process, a reasonable person (me) did not believe he was free to leave without signing the contract. Where I live that's an actual crime...
"anyone who goes to Bally fitness might know what I mean"
Bally Fitness? The one that requires you to hand over your bank accounts so that they can charge you even if they don't keep up their end of the bargain?
I had a sales guy repeatedly urge me to go to his club, saying that I could have a free this and a free that. Finally, because of his persistence, I visited the club. I didn't get to actually do anything except listen as he told me how great the club was, etc. Finally, it came down to this. If I wanted to use this club, I was expected to sign a long-term contract, and, get this, give them a bank account number so that they could EFT a monthly payment.
I asked why they were unique in that they could not bill by monthly invoice, or why I could not take advantage of a pay-as-you-go scheme, say, by paying with a credit card for each visit.
I wanted to leave already, and the sales guy physically placed himself between me and the door. He pushed me into a situation where I had to tell him that I would be outside the building within the next sixty seconds, or else I would be calling the police from his desk phone. It came to THAT, as if he somehow thought there was a possibility that I would still be willing to do business with this company!
After that experience, I looked into Bally's and discovered, to no surprise, that MANY people have been fleeced by them. I also discovered that by simply re-enrolling part-time at my University, I could take advantage of vastly superior exercise resources, and even was able to receive inexpensive physical therapy when I needed it, including treatment by a well-known sports doctor!
Crazy, that Bally's is. I can't believe that anybody is dumb enough to sign their contract.
Around 1989, I noticed the Maritz Travel rep at my office had all kinds of literature with "Internet (R)(TM)" printed on it. They were doing a huge marketing campaign for their network.
Well I, being the geek, confronted the travel rep about this, asking how they can possibly claim a trademark for their network, when "internet" already was common usage for a public network.
Stupid travel rep didn't have a clue what I was talking about, and letters to managers in that company went unanswered.
I think there is a potential problem here. Maritz Travel could conceivably prevail in a trademark dispute over the word "Internet" applied to a computer network.
Nobody cared in 1989, and I doubt anyone cares today. They won't care until someone wins a lawsuit over it, I suppose.
"The fact that you can't write an efficient XML/HTML parser in Perl without dropping into C reveals a basic problem."
I've wondered about this. It seems like Perl would be just the thing for something like SAX parsing against a stream of text. And while an XSLT processor will be an ugly thing in any language, it's surprising to hear that perl falls short of the capability.
p.s., I do have to admit to liking C#, and I wish I could use Vis Studio to do pure Java.
"However, Arpaio has a high approval rating, is regularly re-elected and his endorsement is sought by nearly all politicians."
They love him down here. He talks a good game. The Mexicans think he is a Mexican (and the county does take a hands-off approach toward places like the city of Guadalupe),
He has the right-wing tough-on-crime angle down pat. He has *charisma*. And questionable policies, for instance, homeless people picked up and sent to Pima County (Tucson). One way to solve the problem, I guess. If you're not familiar with the region, it's important to note that liberal types tend to be *much* more comfortable in Tucson than in Phoenix.
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"A bit OT, but yes it is. I use a DWL-650+ with my SuSE 9 Pro laptop all the time (plug and play). Of course, YMMV.
Of course it will vary. If I take your endorsement to the store, and buy the same card based on the information you have given, I am more likely than not to come home with a completely incompatable device, made by a company that is vehemently anti-linux.
YOUR DWL-650+ works. That doesn't mean they all do (Many don't!) Some of them are TI, some are Realtek, and some are Prism2.
You can't tell which one by looking at the box. Will your vendor give you a written guarantee that the card you buy will work under Linux?
That's what I really want. A written admission by the vendor, taking the responsibility that the product is defective if it will not work under Linux.
I'd settle for a vendor who will guarantee that the product I buy will work with Linux.
Then, I don't really care if I get Netgear, Linksys, D-Link, because the vendor takes responsibility, not me. I don't feel moved to "boycott the entire technology", but I think a vendor that would take this responsibility for me would make paying full retail price for the cards worthwhile.
And if the manufacturer screws around and puts the same product code on another product, the vendor needs to scream bloody murder on my behalf.
I, the consumer, shouldn't be responsible for any of this. I know precisely what I want; a network card that works on my linux box. At the end of the day, all I want to know is the address of the vendor who will sell me this.
I'm tired of being treated as if I'm doing something wrong just because I want to buy hardware that works on Linux!
"That way, you can be assured that, if it's listed, it works."
If you say so. Didn't work out that way for me and Linksys WPC-11 devices. Also, it doesn't help if not one single item on the list of compatable devices is availabe from any vendor.
I still don't know whether I should stop looking for a driver for the SD card reader on my Toshiba Laptop, or if it will not be supported at all. I'd really like to know.
I never got over the frustration with the Wireless compatability list. See, the list is well done, and has lots of cards, and people seem to be working hard on it. The problem is, you cannot use the list as a resource to help you purchase a card! Many of the cards listed as compatable are either discontinued, have been changed to incompatable chipsets without changing the product model info, or else were only ever available in some regions.
What I always wanted, instead of a long list of cards that are not available, was a short list of cards that will definitely work, together with addresses of vendors who will sell such a card with a written assurance that the product I receive will indeed work under linux.
I was very upset when I bought a Broadcom device, thinking I was buying a Prism2 device. Even when you think you know what you're doing, you can get burned.
>while we're at it, does anyone know to pronounce
>sudo? is it like "pseudo" (the way i say it), or
>"SOOdoo" (the way a more experienced sysadmin
>friend of mine says it)?
It's been a play on those two ideas from the beginning, so you're both right.
It's "su do" meaning "DO as SUperuser"
But it's also "Sudo" as in "pseudo" as in, assumed identity.
Most old farts say "su do" ("sue dew").
So, this "Olympics", it's some kind of sports event,
right? Wish I could find out more about it, but there's almost nothing about it on the web.
"Realize that the only part of the deal they make any money on (after paying for the building, sales staff, and other expenses) is the PSP"
Once I realize that, should I be more or less motivated to support their broken business model with my money?
"I propose madating that all rebates must be payable on the spot. At the point of purchase."
No kidding. Instead of *pretending* to give you a discount on the item, just do it.
I'm sure there is some logical reason why that is impossible, but I don't want to hear it. When I see a rebate price, I've already trained myself to ignore it, and compare it to another product in the same price range. Typically, another product at the before-rebate price is a better value.
All this stuff might make sense to the retailer, but as a customer, I don't give a crap about the retailer's agenda. As far as I'm concerned, the retailer should have exactly one motivation, and that is making me satisfied enough to return to his store.
"Even if you and your landlord have never been to court, chances are that the lease agreement is either a clone or a very close copy of a standard and legally scrutinised agreement."
If you read the GPL side by side with any other license that grants distribution privileges under copyright, I think you will tend find the GPL the
less complicated of the two.
"A more interesting situation would be if anyone ever mounted a successful challenge against EULAs, which would surely cripple the GPL"
Why do you say that? The GPL isn't an EULA.
The GPL doesn't even presume to restrict *use* in the sense that an EULA does, and it is quite explicit on this point. It bothers me when people refer to the GPL as a license respecting use of the software, because that misconception could be working against adoption of software, even when the believe is completely false.
> Since the GPL has never really been tested in ...
>court
You know, my lease with my landlord has never been tested in court either, but I don't think anyone would reasonably presume that I don't need to pay rent, or that I can be kicked out without a reason.
I have to wonder whether people who say "the GPL has never been tested" have actually READ the GPL. It is quite straightforward. You don't need to be particularly used to reading legal documents to understand it. Read it, and find one single ambiguity that would require a hearing in court in order to settle its validity.
If the law doesn't protect the GPL on its face without a struggle at every step, then NO licence agreement is safe. The GPL is as simple, straightforward, and unambiguous as it gets!
What's to "test" in court?
I picked up a set of sterling silver silverware at
an estate sale, it was quite cheap and I liked the
look of it. What I learned after I started using it, really surprised me. It is a subtle thing, but it has become somewhat important: Real silverware transmits to your hand, the temperature of the food.
It has a significant effect on the experience of eating things like hot soup or ice cream! Now, eating hot and cold food with plated flatware, or stainless, is just missing an element.
"However the techniques used probably vary from store to store"
I think they've changed quite a few policies since I and many others have complained, to various sate Attornies-General, BBB, etc. From other replies, it sounds as if they have added payment options, etc., and from your reply it sounds as though they take the contract a bit more seriously with the customer.
I don't doubt they've lost at a few hearings...
"In their defense, most healthclubs require either a large monthly payment"
You're defending their fee structure, which is okay I guess. My objection was the heavy-handed sales tactics they used. It got to the point that I felt I was being held against my will and was ready to call the police. This is well after I'd made it clear that I wasn't going to sign their contract. They expected me to sign it without reading it. They didn't have any answers to any of my questions, and when it was obvious that I wanted to leave, the guy blocked the door so that I would not leave. (In my state, that is misdemeanor assault!)
Whatever the contract says, whatever the financial considerations are, and whatever the club has to offer were irrelevant. At as certain point in the process, a reasonable person (me) did not believe he was free to leave without signing the contract.
Where I live that's an actual crime...
"anyone who goes to Bally fitness might know what I mean"
Bally Fitness? The one that requires you to hand over your bank accounts so that they can charge you even if they don't keep up their end of the bargain?
I had a sales guy repeatedly urge me to go to his club, saying that I could have a free this and a free that. Finally, because of his persistence, I visited the club. I didn't get to actually do anything except listen as he told me how great the club was, etc. Finally, it came down to this. If I wanted to use this club, I was expected to sign a long-term contract, and, get this, give them a bank account number so that they could EFT a monthly payment.
I asked why they were unique in that they could not bill by monthly invoice, or why I could not take advantage of a pay-as-you-go scheme, say, by paying with a credit card for each visit.
I wanted to leave already, and the sales guy physically placed himself between me and the door. He pushed me into a situation where I had to tell him that I would be outside the building within the next sixty seconds, or else I would be calling the police from his desk phone. It came to THAT, as if he somehow thought there was a possibility that I would still be willing to do business with this company!
After that experience, I looked into Bally's and discovered, to no surprise, that MANY people have been fleeced by them. I also discovered that by simply re-enrolling part-time at my University, I could take advantage of vastly superior exercise resources, and even was able to receive inexpensive physical therapy when I needed it, including treatment by a well-known sports doctor!
Crazy, that Bally's is. I can't believe that anybody is dumb enough to sign their contract.
Around 1989, I noticed the Maritz Travel rep at my office had all kinds of literature with "Internet (R)(TM)" printed on it. They were doing a huge marketing campaign for their network.
Well I, being the geek, confronted the travel rep about this, asking how they can possibly claim a trademark for their network, when "internet" already was common usage for a public network.
Stupid travel rep didn't have a clue what I was talking about, and letters to managers in that company went unanswered.
I think there is a potential problem here. Maritz Travel could conceivably prevail in a trademark dispute over the word "Internet" applied to a computer network.
Nobody cared in 1989, and I doubt anyone cares today. They won't care until someone wins a lawsuit over it, I suppose.
Replying to my own post to point out the 4226fix.
That seems to work but I will never be able to get
a binary patch from "lvllord.de" into my shop!
>http://www.lvllord.de/4226fix/4226fix.htm
"This is what is supposed to happen, the firewall is turned on now by default, and from a security standpoint this is a good thing."
It looks to me like the 10 socket limit applies even when the firewall is turned off.
"The fact that you can't write an efficient XML/HTML parser in Perl without dropping into C reveals a basic problem."
I've wondered about this. It seems like Perl would be just the thing for something like SAX parsing against a stream of text. And while an XSLT processor will be an ugly thing in any language, it's surprising to hear that perl falls short of the capability.
p.s., I do have to admit to liking C#, and I wish I could use Vis Studio to do pure Java.
>Me: "Mr. Goodwrench, my car makes this horrible
>knocking noise and it will only go 40 miles per
>hour. What do I do?"
>Mr. Goodwrench: "Stop driving the car."
The only problem with that advice, of course, is there is no "Step 2."
Mr. Goodwrench can give you Step 2: We can send a tow truck.
What does Microsoft offer for Step 2?
I have had problems already with the 10 socket limitation. Is there a way to disable this limitation, or must I revert back to SP1?
"However, Arpaio has a high approval rating, is regularly re-elected and his endorsement is sought by nearly all politicians."
They love him down here. He talks a good game. The Mexicans think he is a Mexican (and the county does take a hands-off approach toward places like the city of Guadalupe),
He has the right-wing tough-on-crime angle down pat. He has *charisma*. And questionable policies, for instance, homeless people picked up and sent to Pima County (Tucson). One way to solve the problem, I guess. If you're not familiar with the region, it's important to note that liberal types tend to be *much* more comfortable in Tucson than in Phoenix.
"The only way you compete properly is to have a vibrant sales force going in and snapping up any available business that it can."
This is exactly what IBM is supposed to be doing for Linux.
"Trust me.....they won't be able to say they're not a telephone provider for much longer."
Why is Paypal still not "a bank" then?
"You will be excepted, however, if you've installed XP on multiple machines using a single CD. This appears to be the 'piracy' they're overlooking."
Activation, which apparently has not been broken yet, prevents this well enough.