Slashdot Mirror
Hardware That Literally Doesn't Stink?
gtaylor writes "You know that new computer smell? Some people (like me) get sick from it. Can Slashdot readers provide good suggestions for mice or keyboards made from ceramic, unlacquered hardwood, metal, etc, non-plastic headphones and microphones, screens like the new metal-framed cinema display from Apple, etc? (Wood is not necessarily right if it's glued or varnished.) I have a Sharp Plasmacluster air purifier that is very helpful but the fewer volatile organic chemicals released in the first place, the better. I'll also need a chair (leaning to the Herman Miller Mirra chair) and an adjustable metal/hardwood desk. High-density hard synthetics like polypropylene (a popular material at Ikea) or acrylic are also inert enough to be fine if they have no plasticizers - suggestions for a full office set-up welcome."
As a practicing pulmonary doctor, I see patients that claim a wide variety of environmental sensitivies. My one patient was an engineer who thought her computer "was releasing chemicals that were killing her" did the following.
She placed her computer case in a plastic storage bin and placed it in the crawl space under her bedroom. She then bought extension cables for everything and ran the cables up into her living space. I wish I had the pictures she brought in... but her setup included a desk mounted power switch as well.
Once she moved her computer out of her bedroom she decided that her light bulbs were releasing harmful chemicals. It was obviously her light bulbs because she had moved basically everything else out of her bedroom.
Of course, she slept with her cat... but her cat couldn't be causing her allergies. Of course not.
Gesh... just another day at the office.
Davak
My shit never smells.
send me your new goods, and I will send them back after I wear the new smell off... Sounds like a plan to me!
- Your stupidity got you into this mess, why can't it get you out? -Will Rogers
Just spray some air freshener?
If your girlfriend gave you a dutch oven would you die? Good thing that's not a legitimate worry I guess
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I think with the majority of Slashdotters, the hardware which suffers most from stink problems lies between the keyboard and chair...
dunno about plastics etc but if you ever tried popping off a key or two in one of your few-year-old keyboards - particularly if you regularly eat at your computer desk, well chances are you've located a primary source of smell just there.
ISO certified == THX certified
Take up smoking. Tobacco will give you a legitimate reason to worry about your health and deaden your sense of smell.
-- I could tell right away that she was impressed with my HUGE Slashdot Karma.
get out of your bubble, dude... =P
Seriously. Us poor script kiddies are crying, "need more b0xen!" and this guy is wasting all this money on some damn non-volatile plastics.
Ripley's Bullshit or not!
Everytime I open a box of electronics, the first thing I do is take a wiff.
That new computer smell reminds me of christmas as a kid. Why would anyone get rid of the smell?!?!?
This.
I just live with the smell for one or two days. By then everything smells of coffee and I'm OK.
I found woodbin.com after a quick google search.
Couldn't stand em. Made me sick. Well one day I decided to have one even though I didn't like em. Felt like I had wasted my money. Know what I did? I bought another one. After about 5 Big Macs I was startin' to dig it. Now I really like Big Macs. Sometimes you have just to grin and bare it until your body adjusts. Now maybe you have a serious medical condition and are literally allergic to this stuff. In which case, you can probably get some injections that will very slowly expose your body to it until you are used to it. But chances are you're not seriously allergic to this stuff, you're just a big cry baby. Eat the damn Big Mac.
How we know is more important than what we know.
I understand what he's talking about.
New cars literally make me sick.
And for the record, I have a V6 Truck and a 20 gauge shotgun.
But new cars... no fuckin way my friend.
Oh, you must be new here... This is *slashdot*, by "girlfriend" you must mean "right hand", or "middle finger".
The part of the computer that 'smells' the worst is the part you can replace. The case dosn't smell like anything it's the mother board that gives off the most odor and mostly when its hot. If you don't want the stink buy an old well used MOBO the funk should be gone from it. Also you could keep the case open and have lots of air moving around to keep it cooler and not the the funk build up so much. I know what your talking about I just bought a new mobo and P.U.
theres a similar kinda question and discussion from a year or two back..
about alleged allergy to 'high tech' materials that release something into the air.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
The new computer smell bothers you? Buy an old computer.
At least look into used parts (keyboard/mouse) and put your machine by an open window before you unload $$$ on a bunch of Ikea junk.
Just my 2 cents, from a concerned parent who's been there.
Alright so these people who can't handle the smell of new computers can do this:
Have them shipped to my house.
I'll use them for a few years.
I'll ship them to your house.
problem solved!
Best. Line. Ever.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
Sensibility to volatile compounds is a rare allergy, but it is true. It's not some kind of queer twist. There are people that cannot dress anything but pure,white cotton without having serious, harmful allergies.
I'm allergic,with asthma. My condition is much milder than him, but I indeed suffer inside new cars, for example.
I hate politically correct,so it's nice you joke. But,after,try help him. (I have no clue,sorry).
-- Patent no.123456: A way to personalize
Buy plastic and deal with it you wuss. Darwin wins.
This has to be a joke right? I mean, If you get sick from the smell of a keyboard, then what else in the room is making you sick? Think you might be grabbing at straws a bit here? Blame it on your parents, it's their fault for not letting you outside to eat worms and dirt when you where a kid.
My whole computer is made out of free-range tofu.
Then breath something with a decent toxic kick.
Bitumen ashpaultic compound. It's got the fumes, the oily yet rubbery texture and the carcinogenic properties you just won't get from your electronic equipment purchases.
It's also a lot cheaper and better for damp proofing.
Been applying it all day.
Eat food that dropped the floor. Occasionally sit in uncomfortable chairs. Touch public doorknobs. Eat raw red meat. Don't avoid people with colds. Get some sunshine, exercise. *gasp* Turn off your air purifier.
Try some of these things, maybe your body won't be so goddamn frail. If you eat organic food and live in fear of germs your whole life, when some nasty disease comes along, your body won't be able to cope.
In other words, don't be such a wimp.
If you very sensitive, get a friend to open up all the shrink wrap and let it air out and his/her place. New plastics do outgas but it doesn't last very long.
Wow. What a way to live. Have you ever bought a new car? Do you ever plan too? Can you fly commercial airlines? Plane cabins stink. What about driving near pastures or out in the country in general. Do you have allergies, or just some super-sensitive snout? Do you complain when a movie theatre smells like feet, or do you avoid movie theatres because of your condition. I mean, if you spend this much time trying to make sure your desk is ok for your nose, it must be pretty serious. Do you claim ADA and get special stuff at work, or do you suffer though each day.
Sounds like a geek ailment to me.
one time i dropped my computer on my foot and slid down a few stairs while moving. In that case, the computer itself was a very large airborne particle!
The chemicals will gradually escape until there is very little left. Just pulling it out of the styrofoam and letting it sit in a well ventilated room for a week will take care of most computer equipment. If you purchase stuff during spring or fall you can just install it and leave a window open.
An alternative is to buy used or demo equipment that has been out of the packaging for months already.
Why are you worried about the case? The case is not the irritant. It is most likely the chemicals used in masking and etching the circuit board that is the main irritant. That is the "new computer" smell.
I recommend this product as featured in the Telegraph. It should once any for all remove and masculinity from your household.
Nothing is quite as funny as seeing someone buy organic food for 3x-4x the price. Too many people have become big babies these days and are afraid of even living.
I regularly spindles of CDRs and in one out of four cases, when I unwrap them and open them, *man* there's some really nasty chemical smell coming from the CDs. It's so bad I have to close the spindle as fast as possible, and I'm not even remotely allergic to anything.
If they're anything like the CDRs I buy, this guy's must be hell for him...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
http://technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?bnum=80
"Would you, could you, with a goat?" Dr Seuss
What if he's jewish? How do jewish guys jerk off? High consumption of lube? Must be really annoying...
Seriously.
I hope the OP wasn't really expecting to get useful feedback out of this question; I'm sure that one post will be modded off topic any minute now.
Or this
Of course, she slept with her cat... but her cat couldn't be causing her allergies. Of course not.
Now, not speaking as a physician, so I'll defer to your expertise, but isn't it possible the patient knows her cat isn't the cause because she's properly ruled the animal out as the cause of her symptoms? As someone who has gone through the trial and error of trying to discern that specific cause of a food intolerance, with a doctor who was too busy to be concerned, I have some sympathy. For me it turned out that eating chicken caused heart palpitations. My PCP didn't consider the palpitations serious after a holter monitor test, but I was certain diet was the cause and went through a long series of removing various foods until I figured out the specific cause. Removing chicken from my diet has dramatically reduced (really - removed) the palpitations.
IOW: maybe your patient knows something you don't, and she honestly tried to convey it to you during her consultation. In which case you would be yet another example of the doctor too busy to listen to his patient. Which does happen all too frequently.
Cheers,
--Maynard
http://davehitt.com/june00/sents.html
Because health care isn't free to USAians.
...when you get sick from the smell of your own tin-foil hat.
"'Yrch!' said Legolas, falling into his own tongue."
on a semi-related note, i recently bought a shuttle motherboard. it had the most amazing smell. it was almost a perfume.. they should bottle whatever they cleaned that thing off in. aside from the skin burns that would no doubt result, it would probably do well on market!..
Mod that shit up, amen brother.
Bush Lies On the Record.
Its the radon thats seeping into your parents basement thats more of a concern.
Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
what s with all of the flames right off the bat, come on aren't we more civilised. if the guy really has a problem than let's give him a hand, so send your flames to /dev/null and give the guy a hand. wait this is /.
I think I stopped taking this kind of thing very seriously when I read a study where self-identified MCS sufferers were intentionally exposed to chemicals in a blind test - expose them to chemicals with no detectable odor, and they have no reaction. Expose them to harmless chemicals with a noticeable odor, and they immediately have a "reaction".
I hate to be a bastard, but I think that for the vast majority of "sufferers", the underlying problem is far more likely to be psychological than physiological. Perhaps you should approach it from that perspective.
ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
Whoa! For a second there I thought you said your PCP wasn't giving you heart palpitations and I thought "Man, your dealer's rippin' you off!" : )
harmonious design
If this person gets sick with just one computer then why not lock him in a datqacenter server room to see if he has the same symptoms?
But seriously something tells me its not the computer that smells...but the whole story
Don't Tread on OpenSource
I find that placing a fine layer of Obecalp spray over the entire surface works miracles when it comes to containing the problem that leads to these symptoms. Like everthing good, it is hard to get ahold of: but I have a supply, and for the low price of only $99 a bottle I can sell you some.
Unfortunately, there is a risk you may have to repeat the treatment after a while. It really depends on the severity of you Airdnocopyh (the scientific name for this serious illness) condition.
You said it yourself - IKEA. Their stuff tends towards simplicity, with few materials, so it's easy for you to inspect beforehand to see if it works for you. Stuff like fabrics and upholstery are allergy tested (at least they are in Sweden) - we've had plenty of people worrying (rightly or wrongly) about these issues for a long time already, and so they've adapted to it. And it won't make a large gouge in your wallet either.
As for computers - try getting a second-hand mouse and keyboard (grab an IBM Model M if you can find it), as the plastic softener emissions degrease over time. For monitor, perhaps a metal-beveled LCD model could work. LCD's do have the benefit of not creating static fields in front, which tends to attract dust on to the skin (which people sometimes react to).
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
What, you got somethin' against concrete blocks and two by ten?
...I mean come on. Might as well kill yourself.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Retard.
I would watch this movie for ideas and inspiration...
...we're seeing this only from the viewpoint of the OP. We don't have his patient's counterpoint to form an honest judgment. --M
Put them in a big box and take them to the thrift store. Move to the country and get a job shoveling horse shit. Presumably, that kind of organics won't bother you.
How the hell did this end up on "Ask Slashdot"
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
I have a friend who is allergic to peanuts. He doesn't eat peanut butter.
That's the thing about allergies, they limit us. You need to just get over it and go herd sheep or something.
I mean, I've got this major where I have two hands and two eyes, but I can't look at two things at once while inteligently interacting with each. It's a failing, I know, but I accept it and only engage in one on screen task at any given instant. those are the breaks.
Now if only the semi-scientific community could come up with a way to turn believing in Bigfoot into a diagnosis then maybe they could get into the medical journals, then, when nobody's looking, sneak across into the Zoology section...
I once went out with a girl who was about two weeks from being diagnosed with multiple chemical sensitivities. She (and consequently myself) was often miserable and very symptomatic. She got tested for everything in creation, but finally, after the doctors ruled out Lupus, they were left with chemical sensitivity.
Before she could get into that "world" she took a couple of weeks off from work and amazingly her symptoms improved dramatically. She never did pursue the chemical sensitivity diagnosis, and now she freely admits that she was just really damn stressed. That might have had something to do with going out with me, 'cause this all cleared up right about the time I cleared out...
Sounds like someone just convinced their boss they have a legitimate disease. Shopping spree!
You know what?
Beings aspergers AND pulling chicks... I enjoy the challenge!
That said I think we all know the smell of new plastic and it's not that great. Your problem is that you are bother by it, the "new car smell" if you will, only you are FAR more sensitive, right? Well new car smell goes away after a while, after the car has been aired out (it takes a while, obviously). So my first suggestion is to air it out. I would say put it in a big room (have access to a gymnasium?) or some other large space where it will be safe (obviously you can't leave it out in a parking lot). Then set a bunch of fans (or better yet rent or get your hands on one of the HUGE box fans that are used for drying carpet or cheap AC, a Gym would probably have one). Set it up and let it run (make sure there is a source of fresh air, say put the setup to pull air in from a door) and just let it go for a while (a few days maybe?). I would think that (espeically if it's hot, so it all "sweats") would do a great job of fixing it (or at least making it bearable).
My other suggestions would be to try used equiptment. Because it's used, the smell may have already dissapated.
Last is, relocate it. Is that a possibilty for you? Put the PC and such in another room (as much as possible) and run the cords through the wall. That way all you'd need is the keyboard/mouse/monitor, and maybe a diskdrive (say USB/Firewire CD-RW). The less stuff there is, the less the fumes.
As for specific products, I'm not sure what to suggest. You had an idea for a monitor, and someone somewhere must make an aluminum keyboard/mouse. Is rubber much of a problem? You could use one of those rubber keyboards (often designed to roll up or such). They may not be the most comfortable, but it might work.
If rubber does work, you could get a thin paint rubber (must exist if rubber dip exists, although that might work, I know there is a rubber spay can out there) and cover all the part (or at least the surfaces of the plastic parts). That way, you may be able to trap the smell in.
Good luck.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
I love the smell of fresh hardware so much I kept all the packaging that came with my Powerbook. Every once in a while I open it up and remember that magical moment, my first Mac.
I could ask for a Natural keyboard 8)
...
"It takes about 15 working hours to finish a complete one solid wood keyboard, starting from a carefully chosen piece of lumber up to the polishing and testing of the final product. Because of this labour intensive and careful process, Wood Contour can only deliver a limited amount of items per year, since we want to guarantee you that the quality we deliver is the best in the world.
keyboards
Solid Wood PC Keyboard - Ash
$1,115.00
Solid Wood PC Keyboard - Beech
$1,115.00
Solid Wood PC Keyboard - Cherry
$1,115.00
Solid Wood PC Keyboard - Mahogany
$1,115.00
Solid Wood PC Keyboard - Maple
$1,115.00"
While browsing I also found this
Stone mice and keyboard and screen...
quite expensive, with the whole set a more than 7000$... but hey, here it is!
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
HYPOCHONDRIAC mean anything to anyone out there???
Sig: I stole this sig.
So I think a starting point me be with This guy. Here also. I don't know if they would release any info to you about what items you may find tolerable but it might be worth a shot.
YES please mod parent up...
"Alcohol, cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" -Homer Simpson
You could probably save a few bucks by putting yourself in an inert plastic bubble instead of buying all new furniture etc.
And for the record, I have a V6 Truck and a 20 gauge shotgun
Yeah. And I have a V8 truck and a 12 gauge shotgun.
This is *slashdot*, by "girlfriend" you must mean "right hand", or "middle finger".
I understand the right hand part but middle finger? I'm not sure that I even want to know the answer to that one.
You may want to talk with an industrial hygienist for a more authoritative response. (IANAIH)
Keyboard & mouse are tough, but perhaps something ruggedized for public terminals -external components made mostly of metal with silicone seals. I fear that they will be expensive though. As for the machine itself, if the suggestions above about letting the system "air out" are not adequate, get a mini system and place it in a sealed NEMA enclosure. If needed this could be vented outside your work area using "dryer vent" techniques (like a home clothes dryer}. This would probably cost several hundred dollars, but if done properly would completely isolate you from any chemical contamination originating in the enclosed system.
I think it likely that many cords and cables will have significant plasticiser content.
I'm sure you don't really want to hear the following question, but is your sensitivity purely physiological? Can you determine which specific substances or classes of substance are incompatible with your well-being?
Minor symptoms that persist are a legitimate complaint that should be investigated. (Allergies? Infection?) This doctor was an incompetant ass.
If the local trauma center started treating bullet wounds for free, would you shoot yourself?
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Come on, this isn't April 01 yet.
These "multiple chemical sensitivity" frauds are just poorly-veiled attention whores, seeking out ways to get people to fawn over their "troubles".
If you'll follow this asshat's website url, you'll notice he also has "chronic fatigue syndrome". If that doesn't spell "hypochondriac bullshitter" to you, then you need to get your BS detector adjusted.
Sharp, Herman Miller and Ikea...hmm...
Smelliest computer I know of is a certain run of older ibooks... something about the chemical they laquer the motherboard with, if you run the computer hot for very long it permeates the keyboard with this nasty smell that, as near as I can tell, cannot be gotten rid of short of replacing the keyboard. Fortunately, it only seems to have affected a small run of the G3 ibooks.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Also make darned sure you remove all of the batteries from it. You'll defintely shorten the life of any batteries that you accidentally heat this way.
I'd be strongly interested to get feedback on this idea.
--Mike--
(that's why im going anonymous ;)
but.. what a pussy
Hopefully silicone compounds don't affect you or release any volatiles:
About a year ago, picked up a pair of keyboards at the local CompUSA. Called "Virtually Indestructible Keyboard" (VIK), they're a soft, flexible, silicone keyboard that can be rolled up for storage / transport. URL printed on keyboard is http://www.grandtec.com/.
Bought one "full-size", one shorty (no separate keypad / cursor sections). Handy, but very different tactile sensation ( no click, just a smush). Not good if you're a "hard" typist.
They're washable as well (completely sealed, just use soap & water).
I have some working 486's in my basement.
I'll let them go cheap!
Buyer pays shipping.
-- Stephen.
Put a small cloth bag (the cloth should be really thin) filled with coffee beans inside the box. That's what I do. I love the smell of coffee.
Going on "sick call" instead of doing real work is an ancient military tradition. The doctor was right.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
They may have removed OS stats but they thankfully (thank you thank you) haven't removed statistics that matter. For instance, misspellings on the query "Britney Spears". The DOWCE (department of web-content-evanescence) issues a cache-this-page now warning.
My photolog
Questionable MCS issues aside, I've definitely encountered a few electronic items that set me off, and I'm perfectly healthy save for a the usual pollen allergies.
The one thing they had in common was that I could smell phenols. Most printed circuit boards and certain classes of inductors seem to be loaded with them. (Chloroseptic sore-throat spray uses phenol as an active ingredient if you need a taste/smell reference.) Anyone who has worked around a PCB plant will probably confirm there's some seriously nasty stuff used in their manufacture, some of which you buy in a new mobo.
What may actually being going on is the phenols are what you can smell, but some other chemical in PCBs might be the real offender, though phenols don't exactly have a clean bill of health -- but they're detectable by your nose at really low PPMs so they're easy to point to.
Usually, however, the the phenol smell (and presumably other emissions) fades pretty quickly with time and are proportional to heat, so if I have a really bad device I put in the warmest room of my house running 24/7 with a window open for a while. After the stuff bakes out it generally isn't much of a problem.
You can get sheet aluminum or vents from a hardware store and direct the air blown out from your computer through your filters.
There also are add-ons for making computer fans quieter. Some are just ducts with sound-deadening filter or foam material. Consider your modification possibilities.
why dont you just shoot yourself. if you can not handle these kinds of things. you are pretty much worthless.
I bought a copy of "Dragon Ball Z: Bojack Unbound (Uncut Edition)" yesterday...
I don't know what this "new computer smell" people are talking about is... But when I opened that DVD case, the smell near knocked me over! I never have gotten a DVD where the case had any sort of smell about it.
I can tell you exactly what it smelled like too. Solder! I used to solder stuff in school, and have occasionalyl done so at home, and this was the smell of the smoke that comes from solder, except 10x as strong.
gtaylor. I'd suggesting you stop worring your little self about the fumes coming off your new stuff, and start worrying about the radiation and other hamful waves that are emitted from your computer straight into your brain day after day.
Actually, i'd also suggest you lock yourself in a lead bunker deep underground as well, because there's plenty of terrorists out there. Don't forget about the aliens just waiting to attack our measely little planet too!
It's only free if you're sick or injured at 6:00am. Otherwise, you can just do your job and wait until tomorrow.
I was sick once while in the Army. I was nautious and feverish, but decided to "suck it up" and go to PT (Physical Training) in the morning rather than go to sick call. During that, I vomited and had diarreah (not very nice sight for the person holding my feet during situps). But, I couldn't go to sick call because it was already after 6:00am. I had to wait until the next day.
The fever had broken, but I was still having diarreah and nausea. They decided I was dehydrated and gave me an IV (saline solution, I think). They finally stopped after 4 units. Normally after one or two, you're supposed to have a nearly irrestable urge to pee as your body tries to expell the excess fluid. It never did happen. So they checked the sound of my lungs because sometimes it will leak into the lungs. Nope. I was just REALLy dehydrated. They sent me home to drink orange juice and then go back to work after lunch.
If that's free healthcare, then I really don't want much to do with it.
Oh yeah, I forgot when I first got there.. there's the Private who's been in the army for 3 months with a huge book. It's like one of those adventure books.... do you have a fever? Turn to page 329. Have you vomitted? turn to page 79. Have you had diarrhea? Hmmm... was it competely liquid or did it have little chunks? Chunks? Okay, that's page 512. Hmmm... it looks like you could be feeling sick. Fill out these forms and go wait until your name is called.
...thanks! --M
For the .005% of us who are female. Or Gay.
I don't think a change of materials is going to help much, as long as it's electronics.
Computers, like many electronics products, are usually treated with a flame-retardant to (duh) keep the electronics from burning up in case something malfunctions.
Most of these flame retardants are polybromated organic compounds. (usually diphenyl ethers) Not nice stuff (and I Am A Chemist), and definitely something you can develop a hypersensitivity/allergy to.
I recall that some studies done show that most of the surplus flame-retardant dissipitates after the first few hundred hours of use. So one suggestion would to let your new machines burn-in in a well-ventilated environment away from you.
Anyway.. the awareness about the issue is increasing, and these types of flame-retardants will probably be phased out sooner or later. (You'd have to ask an expert, I'm not sure what the alternatives are)
But there really isn't much to do apart from that, AFAIK they don't make any computers which aren't treated.
I did buy a stainless steel mouse for my son, but the underside, the wire covering and buttons were plastic. Sounds like a market for laser-cut mouse covers.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Weren't those old imacs blueberry flavored/scented?
*shrug*
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
Fabreze
Caution: Contents under pressure
you could take a plastic mouse to a place that puts metal coatings on plactic using hot spray and electroplating.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
...go and see a doctor about it?
If it's genuine, nobody will have better resources to identify what's causing the allergy.
If it's psychosomatic, nobody will be better qualified to identify it as such and treat it.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Yeah, military healthcare blows. You get what you pay form I'm an Air Force brat. My dad was an officer, but not a pilot (a missileman)
My mom or I could be bleeding to death in that damn lobby all day because the Colonel's wife or any pilot's wife waltzes in with a stuffy nose and gets all of us peons bumped back an hour.
I mean, when we were stationed at Edwards (a flight test base) I could totally understand the pilot himself getting preferential treatment over support people. I mean the whole base existed for them anyway. But it pisses me off to no end that the same extends to dependents. A pilot's wife shouldn't get service faster than me any more than I should get serviced before a sicker Airman's kid. That's just not right.
But the healthcare's not worth having anyway. You gotta love the fine folks at the Grand Forks AFB hospital who had no idea that my mom was carrying twins until...SURPRISE! THERE'S TWO!
Just one of the many reasons I chose not to be a 3rd generation officer...of course now I'm damn glad I didn't...
will let you forget you ever bought any equipment...
As people use more and more computer equipment, it is inevitable that nature makes us allergic to it. Personally, I love the smell of a new motherboard, new car, new truck, burnt-on-muddy-truck. But anyhoo... I suppose you should just de-evolve and try to be less sensitive. Maybe sensitivity training would be in order?
-- Liberalism is a mental disorder.
"You know that new computer smell? Some people (like me) get sick from it. Can Slashdot readers provide good suggestions for mice or keyboards made from ceramic, unlacquered hardwood, metal, etc, non-plastic headphones and microphones, screens like the new metal-framed cinema display from Apple, etc? (Wood is not necessarily right if it's glued or varnished.) I have a Sharp Plasmacluster air purifier that is very helpful but the fewer volatile organic chemicals released in the first place, the better. I'll also need a chair (leaning to the Herman Miller Mirra chair) and an adjustable metal/hardwood desk. High-density hard synthetics like polypropylene (a popular material at Ikea) or acrylic are also inert enough to be fine if they have no plasticizers - suggestions for a full office set-up welcome."
Dear BubbleBoy,
Wouldn't it just be easier to put you computer equipment outside your bubble?
Sincerly,
Me
Does it smell? Shoot, I dunno. Looks like wood, could be plastic.
No one in my office liked the smell of
computer hardware. The problem was driving
us all completely crazy, until we found
the answer:
Now everyone in my office just uses one of these!
http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/suit-responderp
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
Canadians (I'm one) don't wait three years for minor surgeries. yes there are waits. and YES there are problems with our healthcare system - of that we have no illusion. but let's get a few things straight.
1. we spend (are you ready for this?) LESS by a huge margin, than the US on healthcare (per capita). one reason is that we have 10 insurance systems (one for each province) not the hundreds (if not thousands) of carriers in the US. and of course each hospital has billing, collections etc etc. we don't. we've centralised it.
2. All our residents and citizens are covered. anyone, anywhere in this country can go to a hospital and get care. no bull. and the same care our rich and famous get, i get.
3. this actually ain't socialism. it's good economic practice. There is a term (which i forget) but the meaning is that it makes good policy sense to have a particular thing administered at teh lowest level that makes sense. so for example, (in government) cities take care of garbage collection, States take care of highways and the feds handle, say, the military.
Why? because for the feds to do garbage collection, or for the city to have an army is just daft and will create more problems than it solves. healthcare is actually something that can be handled Better and MORE EFFICENTLY by a government created agency. because one of the basic principals of insurance is that the more people over whom you amortize the risks, the safer and more effective your insurance.
blah blah blah
All to say really that before y'all cast aspersions on this crazy canuck commie idea of 'free' health insurance, check yer facts. yes our system has broken bits. but beleive me, waiting nearly a year for, say, arthroscopic surgery on your knee to fix a running injury (um, let's just say it was a 'friend' i know) at truly one of the best hospitals in the world, by a guy who was among those who invented/perfected the procedure was fine by me. considering it was NOT a life threatening injury, and IT COST ME NOTHING!!!
happy election!!
I recommend you stop being such a faggot.. ... how about stepping away from the KB once in a while and getting some fresh air....
Seriously, what's wrong with it?
This straight guy really liked it!
I'm not sure if i'd ever try that as a straight man. But after reading that article I'm at least curious.
Photos.
I've got quite a good nose as well, I walk down the street and every person who walks past me wafts a different smell, some nice some not so nice ... just do what dogs do, sniff the interesting ones and ignore the rest :-)
Wow! Reading through that makes me sound weird(er) :-)
No shame in that. ;-)
- Open a window. Clear out the stale air.
- Get a new power supply. If it has a short, the high voltages can create ozone.
About a year ago I noticed that I got a headache if I sat in my office with the window closed for even a short time. After I got a new power supply it cleared up. I'm not normally chemically sensitive though, aside from perfume, pollen, and lactose.I have a chronic fatigue syndrome too. Or maybe I'm just lazy. Uhhmm... never mind.
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Where are those "insensitive" jokes?
Didn't you have a short stint on Northern Exposure as the guy living in the bubble? ...or maybe I'm having a flashback from the plasticizers given off by the 2zillion pieces of plastic in this room that I'm sitting in right now...
My thoughts run two ways :
One - getting used gear / items (?) - Some items, especially electronics lose their smell after some days/weeks/months. With that, some compounds are freed / liberated / lost. The items can be cleaned of dust,etc..., but the initial breaking-in period will be done.
Two - getting a vent-hood. Here, I'm thinking along the lines of either (a) a kitchen vent, or (b) a chemistry-lab vent system.
This may help, it may not.
Regards-
Sam
Lock yourself in one of those self-contained bubbles...then shot yourself in the head...you whining moron.
A group of activists have forced ford motors into designing a car that effectivly comes free of any 'new car smell', due to a new breed of allergy that is hitting the nation by storm, that has been reffered to by many experts in the field as 'crazius-is-teh-youtius'. The allergy is mainly ocurrent in individuals 20 - 45, that work in a closed office environment with little to no fresh air and lacks proper vacation time. Analysts estimate that approximatly %78 of the population is prone to obtain this allergy, mostly centered around the New York region.
I'm a signature virus. Please copy me to your signature so I can replicate.
there are all-rubber keyboards that roll up, that could be an alternative if plastic KBs arent your thing
Also smells are the putrid undergrads I have to work with, who don't change their "BULLHEAD" brand sweatshirts for week straight. Their work is sloppy and I hate all of them. They should get "F" for too much party all the time, if you take my class.
I suggest you read Slashdot
We can joke about this hypochondriac, but the truth is that someday our electronics and other such products will be much more bio-compatible than they are now.
When I recently built a new PC I was amazed at just how much my Antec case smelled. Really, for all these years I've never encountered a case that smelled this bad. I delayed building the PC for a day so I could leave the case outside, in front of a box fan. This got rid of 60% of the smell and made it bearable to take inside. After I got it built I covered it with plastic and some blankets before going to sleep (it was right next to my bed) to try and keep the smell from keeping me awake and boisoning my prain.
People do need to recognize these things as not all being sissy talk. I was staying in a room where someone sprayed some of that indoor bug spray, and the idiots didn't ventilate it. I tried to "tough it out", but I ended up waking up in the middle of the night with numbish burning nostrils. I was tired as hell but I had to leave the house. After that incident I was extremely sensitive to everything, dust, mold/mildew, chemicals, etc and I have no allergies.
Let's face it, our beloved toys are not compatible with our biology. I cannot wait for the day when monitors will be as natural feeling as staring off into the sunset, input devices feeling as fluid as taking a midnight stroll, and the materials being so compatible with me that they regenerate, and if I ever get hungry I could eat them for their high nutritional content.
Until then, I'm just a sacrifice, like the coal miners, or those scientists that discovered radioactivity. I'm young, and yet my wrist and joints will probably completely breakdown soon, my posture is like Mr. Burns, eyes are completely screwed especially after so many years of squinting through sun glare on a CRT with low refresh and EGA gfx, hearing is crap thanks to concerts and nonstop MP3 listening (I swear the compression noise damages ears!), not to mention I sit all day long not getting much exercise or sun. But it's all worth it... right?
Oh well, at least I don't have so much stress due to DOS/old windows BSODs and other such incompatibilities. But I'm sure once I'm 75 and in a nursing home with some mental degenerative disease I'll be blabbering hysterically, "I need to reinstall, it's getting so slow... no... NO!! my sound was working, I know it was, why is it showing up as broken in the device manager! Need new drivers, but it won't detect, oh NO!! BLUE SCREEN!!!!"
Would you like fries with that?
These "chemicals" aren't doing anything, and your air-purifier is a placebo.
http://shop.webopolis.com/swedx2/mice.php They're not 100% plastic free, but they are cool looking, and cheaper than the ones I've seen referenced above. While the plastic allergy story is on the lame "get over it" side, I'm disappointed in the slashdot community for not coming up with more cool peripheral and case alternatives - I'm sure they're out there, and I'd like to know about them.
After you finish buying all the luxuries already mentioned, you should get a set of wipers like Eddie Murphy's character had at the beginning of "Coming to America!"
It's not the material, it's the flaming retard.
But, hey, I'm sure it's the evil gases lurking in the computer, right?
psst,
not many people know that something that goes hand in hand with MCS is disrupted liver function.
If you've got MCS, you're very likely physically ill.
Make yourself weller, and your MCS should go away. It (mostly) worked for me.
I should rephrase that. It's not the chemist, it's the flaming retard who sticks their nose into the flame retardant.
http://www.hypercube.org/writing/gt.jpg
Not to be insensitive or facitious, but why not get an old computer? A machine thats a couple years old already has spent plenty of time baking off residual solvent vapors and other chemicals. You might want to crack it open and remove all the dust on the inside first, though ;-).
If you insist on modern hardware, have a look at some of the ruggedized equipmnent that is designed for industrial use (note this shit's not cheap):
environmentally sealed NEMA 4/4x stainless steel/ABS plastic keyboards
waterproof/contamination proof silicon keyboard with integrated pointing device, that can be chemically sterilized
Divide by zero hurts my brain.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I'm sure if I ate McD's salads for a month I'd be fine, as long as I took some vitamins or something. Not that I'd enjoy it, but yeah.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
...I am just NOT clicking on a link to any file called "jerker1.jpg"
He should have given it a friendlier-sounding filename, like "hello.jpg."
MCS doesn't exist and the "treatments" for it can be extreme and expensive.
"High-density hard synthetics like polypropylene (a popular material at Ikea) or acrylic"
(warning, I am about to rant again, one of those weeks)
Polymers such as Polypropylene are not just popular with Ikea, there is a good change damn near every white good in your house; most of your car and several of your brown goods are mostly polypropylene (PP) (toilet seats/cisterns even in some countries); your outdoor furniture is almost certainly PP if it isnt metal and glass; maybe even have polyamide (see rant below) cushions. Im certain the top of your washing machine is polypropylene unless it is one of the very new (recently trendy) aluminium exterior or an industrial steel construction one.
Lets not forget the ABS/PC (Acrylonitrile butadiene Styrene/Poly Carbonate) Alloys often used in computer equipment and cars and most "finished" (painted or electroplated) polymer products; "Acrylic" (sic), perhaps you mean PMMA (Poly Methyl Methacrylate); like most of the non-glass drinkware in your house?? That woodgrain in your car, unless it is a VERY EXPENSIVE luxury vehicle, it is almost certainly cubic printed PC/ABS (mercedes owners, sit down, most of yours are cubic printed too). The lenses of your sunglasses/glasses are almost certainly Poly Carbonate or, worse, a thermoset polymer; more volatiles!!! (used in production, but, being volatiles, long past outgassed) oh no!!!.
As for plasticisers; except for FLEXIBLE polymers (like the TPE's used on your mouse wheel and your toothbrush), manufacturers try to avoid volatile plasticisers as they outgas and cause defects during processing; indeed, correct processing of rigid thermoplastics tends to ensure all volatiles are outgassed during processing. If they dont outgas at the 200~300 degrees C they are processed at, they wont at room temperature!!!
Your car's Instrument Panel is almost certainly skinned with a TPE that will outgas volatiles. Either that or painted with a soft feel paint, once again, it will outgas volatiles. Why do you think you need to clean the inside of your winshield so often??
Do you use a latex or synthetic pillow?? or blanket/quilt/doona/comforter(insert name for said from your country here)... more polymers with volatile plasticisers.
I am fairly certain, in fact, that your computer is the LEAST LIKELY item in your home/life to produce volatiles which make you sick/cause allergic reaction. Unless dust/fluid from YOUR ENVIRONMENT is frying on heatsinks etc...
Do you wear ALL COTTON/WOOL clothes??? well, bugger me if you arent wearing plasticised poly amide filaments ("Nylon" or "polyester"); your toothbrush bristles are made of similar materials. Even your toothpaste probably comes out of a PET (Poly Ethylene Teripthalate) or PE (poly ethylene) or PP receptacle.
Hell, the shelves in your fridge are likely to be PMMA or PC if they arent steel mesh. Im fairly certain you have a Poly Ethylene chopping board in your house and drink your favourite soft drink or fruit juice from a PET bottle (oh! no, plastic!!!) bottle.
Bloody hell, whilst we do tear shit out of the enviroment using fossil fuels to create these polymers (although recycling helps, ALOT, you all should do it or lobby your local council/government to do it; takes maybe 5 minutes out of your day); they are so all pervasive that suggesting the use of plasticised polymers in your computer or doped ceramics is making you sick. Lacquered wood or coated metals are just as likely to outgas if heated as many polymers...
What a crock; most allergy specialists would look for OBVIOUS causes first... dust, dust mites, pollen... And even if it *IS* from polymer additives (not plasticisers, these are far from common in rigid polymers), your computer hardware is almost certainly the SMALLEST contributor.
I challenge ANYONE in the western world to proove that they come into contact with more variety of polymers due to their computer than in the rest of their life. If you drive a car, you already loose Almos
you are right. normal people just don't understand how much we use these computers things ;-)
Between the keyboard and chair?
Honey child, in my case, it IS the chair.
Time for leather...
Volatile organic compounds (or VOCs) are an actual issue with new products (you name it VOCs will be there).
The big culprits are rugs, and glues in woodworking. Most plastics (and those wonderful plasticizers) are to blame also. Chemicals such as formaldahyde (and a whole host of other wonderful compounds) are out gassed during the initial months of ownership of any newly manufactured items (it is also what gives you the 'new car smell' or the 'new computer smell').
This is also what contributes to "sick building syndrome" and other air quality issues in large buildings (leading to some of the air conditioning and fresh air requirements in modern building codes). Sick building syndrome is when VOCs build up a concentration inside a building and people start having alergic reactions, breathing trouble and a whole host of other medical issues due to the VOCs. Sick building syndrome can most easily be noted if you seem to get sick alot while at the building (prolonged or repeated exposure is an important issue here) and it seems to go away after you haven't been in the building for a couple of days (say the weekend or a vacation).
An air quality study to find out what is in your air would also give you an idea as to whether your building's air quality is an issue.
So reducing the VOC concentration is the number one priority. Your choices can be boiled down to:
1. Stop introducing VOCs into the environment that you are in. The means finding products that will not out gas (or have a reduced out gassing) in their initial months after being installed. Other people have started noting items you can get.
2. Release the VOCs into the rest of the world. That is open the windows, run air conditioning that has a fresh air intake for some or part of its air.
3. Install plants that have been shown to reduce VOCs and improve air quality in buildings. Plants do this by consuming VOCs in the air as part of their respiration cycle (they also release O2 and water into the air further impoving air quality). There is an excellent book called: "Growing Fresh Air" it is based on a NASA study that was trying to study air quality for long term air quality in a sealed environment (ie space capsules, moon bases, etc). The study was adapted to use with Sick Building Syndrome. Good plants to pick (these are from memory since I don't have the book next to me) would be: the Boston Fern, Rubber Plant, Dragon palm.
Trying Googling for Sick Building Syndrome and Growing Fresh Air
Architectural plans are like computer source code with a couple of differences: You only compile once.
I sure feel old now, my first Mac only had 128k RAM! Fortunately, Dr. Dobb's Journal showed me how to replace the chips to go to 512k.
Tag lost or not installed.
Not trying to flame here but what's the incentive to become a doctor? In the states, it's the pay plus a little bit of wanting to do good. If healthcare becomes free (which is pretty much government subsidized at that point) what's the motivation for giving healthcare if the pay is the same (read lower).
People become police officers because they want to. Becoming a police officer doesn't require over $130,000 in school bills and 8 years of your life.
I don't know what the average pay for a physician is but I guess that it's less than what our Senators make which is $154,000 a year. I do not see this country footing the bill for all these doctors who make close to 6 figures. Doctors can't afford to work at police officer rates which I believe starts at $28,000 a year.
On a personal note, I hate the whole healthcare system in the states.
I can go to the doctor and pay the $80 a visit or I can have the insurance pay for the visit at $230 a visit. WTF!!?!?!
People have no concept how much healthcare costs, only what they're out of pocket.
How much does it cost to have a baby in a hospital?
if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
In any case, you're doing what I've seen too many doctors do: you're avoiding dealing with issues you have no patience for, and doing so by stereotyping some of your patience as wackos. I guess it's OK for Rush Limbaugh to do that with Liberals, but a physician has no business with that kind of intellectual laziness.
Finally, you need to educate yourself on the whole mind-body thing. A perfectly sane person can think themselves into all kinds of immunological difficulties. There's plenty of stuff in the literature about people who get hayfever from being around artificial flowers.
And then there's me and cigarette smoke. I get the nastiest headaches from the slightest whif. Not suprising, since my skin tests for tobacco produce whelts the size of raisins. But then why do I get these same headaches from watching Bogart movies?
have you been in the army?
sick call is the 'joker card', to be used in case of emergency such as a long walk, shitty camp, shitty battle training and various other shitty activities(which include almost everything in the end). ironically if there's one place to make men act like bunch of pussies(taking the easy way out) whenever possible it's the army(well, that's how it works in a conscript army anyways - I guess usa would be a bit different but I'd bet my ass there's lots of folk there who didn't want there but were just too pussies to say to their dad or whatever "fuck off, i'm not going there even if you were in 'nam", and if they were too pussies for that why wouldnt they find the good refuge of sick call..)..
(however, in the real world, outside of army, there's less reasons to use the joker card and less flexibility if you use it extensively, like what employer would look at a guy who calls in sick every damn week)
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
At the age of 48, I've *completely* recovered from environmental alleriges that I had since I was about 8 years old. That involved a radical diet change to eating only things I wasn't habituated to eating for about a year, then reintroducing everything one item at a time. Four years later -- I find that if I avoid bread of any kind, soya sauce, alcohol, and coffee -- my recovery remains strong. Along the way, I picked up a regular yoga practice, which, I believe, helps.
It IS taboo. However, I for one am surprised I havn't recieved 5 AC trolls calling me a closeted homo yet.
I figure that this post marks the point where I can no longer run for president. If I ever do, someone will dig it up and insinuate that I'm gay.
The terrible thing about this all is that it means political debate in america is more akin to trolling than intelligent debate. We knew that allready however.
Photos.
Not that Slashdot is the best place for medical opinions, but some people obviously have no clue (and are lucky they don't have similar problems). I have a ton of allergies that I put up with, they make me miserable most days but I can live with it. However, I also have chemical sensitivities. These are harder to avoid without giving up everything that I enjoy. My mom has similar sensitivities that showed up around the time that I was born.
For example, I never used to notice that my PC desktop bothered me at all. Last winter I purchased an Enermax power supply for my machine and as soon as I opened the bag, it smelled really bad like oil and plastic. I figured it was the new smell. However, every time I used it the smell would make me feel dizzy and weak a year later and it still smells (I just don't use that computer much at all). My year-old PowerBook has a unique smell to it, not plastic, but something else, kind of metallic. The worse it does is give me a headache, but my mom can't even use it for more than 5 minutes. I'm particularly bad with petroleum smells and the adhesives used in things like particle board. I only buy real wood furniture, not cheap, glued-together furniture.
I don't want to post my entire pathetic list of symptoms, but the point is that while I put up with the side effects because I enjoy using computers so much, I'd probably be living a much less miserable life if I would avoid them more. I would imagine I'm not alone and that many people have side effects to breathing the fumes that are put off by things like computer motherboards, CPUs and power supplies for any length of time.
Also, in response to the poster that mentioned non-pasteurized cheese... I drink raw goat milk because I can't handle cow milk. Sometimes I wonder if raw cow milk would work the same way.
I'm sure they all go together somehow. My allergies to normal allergens and certain foods probably weaken my system against certain chemicals. Maybe one day I'll figure it out.
I thought I read on Slashdot a while ago about some motherboard manufacturer developing a motherboard that didn't make use of a lot of the chemicals that current motherboards do. I thought it was ASUS, but I can't find it now.
One practical suggestion: that fancy air filter probably does some good -- but in my experience a simple activated carbon filter is much more effective -- and a lot cheaper!
It is definitely possible to make yourself physically sick if you are mentally convinced you are sick.
I spent years fighting near constant bouts of nausea. Saw a slew of specialists, had scans, tests, X-rays, pokes, prods, and pills. Nothing helped. After a few years I began to realize it was the situtations I was in that seemed to induce my nausea... gee could it be mental?
Short story: yes. I had(have?) "Social Phobia" before it was the cool thing (like ADHD that every third kid has). The damnest thing is that once I knew what was wrong, and was positive my feeling sick was purely in my head, I discovered it was still impossible to not feel "sick" sometimes. It's just like being scared of flying. You can be on a plane and rationally know that you are safer than in your car, but still be terrified at the same time.
My feeling is that a lot of these MCS people just freak out when they smell something "odd". I doubt there is a single treatment to snap these people out of their loop. Therarpy did nothing for my problem, but the slightest taste of an SSRI drug fixed me like flipping a switch. For other people, drugs just make them feel nasty, and talking things out helps.
The point is, I think there is something wrong with people who "have" MCS, and it can be serious, but no amount of avoid the "bad chemicals" is going to help them.
Take two, call me in the morning. Don't sue. No for use with certain sets, your mileage may vary...
Hypochondriacs do.
People with multiple chemical sensitivity are usually depressed, and reject suggestions by attending doctors that they see a psychologist, dismissing it as patronizing- they're truly offended and think the doctor is dismissing their claims, when the doctor is actually recognizing someone who's depressed and regardless of physical symptoms, needs to see a trained psychologist.
MCS also is almost always self-diagnosed; patients come to doctors claiming they have it. That is a hallmark of invented diseases and hypochondriacs.
The chemicals leeched off by plastics- and particularly vinyl in cars and the like- are very toxic, actually- but the simple solution is to air out the object in question. Put the keyboard on your porch or something for a few days or something, or for chrissakes, leave the window open.
Please help metamoderate.
Very simple solution here; windows.
(Hint: Try opening one)
But realistically, even if you got wood everything, then you'd have the cheap-plastic-wood smell, or that fresh-varnish smell.
I'm sure it's nothing a little f'breeze can't improve. But beware those T-Rexes.
Believe it or not, this actually makes you more sick- because your body -needs- minor exposure to germs to keep your immune system "current".
Once you go into isolation, your immune system gets "lazy" and you actually become highly likely to get sick from even minor exposure. I don't suggest licking doorknobs, and YES, you still should clean your mouse, keyboard, desk, etc and observe proper sanitary procedures in your kitchen- but don't go psycho with the antibacterial stuff- among other things, people don't use it properly 95% of the time.
Funny story- I was one on the subway and let out a minor sneeze. I was exceptionally polite- I actually held my nose, leaned forwards and down, sneezed as little as possible, etc. The woman next to me BOLTS upright and zooms half a car length away to the door. The three people opposite me- who probably received more than she did, if anything- all burst out laughing.
Please help metamoderate.
http://www.mst.dk/chemi/01082601.htm This report has a lot of interesting information on emissions from computer equipment.
Looks like a first-pager to me.... ... stuff that matters...
... the PC smell? You're kidding right? Furthermore, how often is this a problem? I've had my current PCs for 3 years and 5 years respectively. Get a new PC ... put it in a cabinet. Get a new mouse .... rub it with lysol or whatever your mom keeps in her basement.
... why not just sue the companies for discrimination? Their products are not suited for your use, so they must owe you money.
News for nerds
Holy shit
Here's a though
This is really a problem? Really?
I didn't realize Paul Pfeifer was a slashdot reader....
Somedays Im an idiot....
....If you drive a car you alread loose, almost every fascia component on the interior and exterior is polypropylene; include the abs/pc, PMMA, PE and the NON fascia PP; the TPE's etc, and the ammount is even higher.
"I challenge ANYONE in the western world to proove that they come into contact with more variety of polymers due to their computer than in the rest of their life. If you drive a car, you already loose Almost every fascia component on the interior and exterior of a car is polypropylene; include the ABS/PC." (I DID proof read it too... duh!)
should be
Well, rant and we shall be punished...
jak.
Just ventilate the room until the amount of outgassing decreases to an acceptable level.
If you live in an are where the outside temperature is too high or low for direct ventilation, get a heat exchanger.
If the OP was hoping for a bunch of New Age sympathy for the pseudo scientific medical problem of Multiple Chemical Sensitivity then they came to the wrong forum. Refreshingly, Slashdot posters didn't fall for this ploy. I do feel sorry for the OP if they feel they have been ganged up on. The problem is not that people can't be sensitive to chemicals or have allergies. It's just that most people with so called MCS are sensitive to chemicals they think are present, often as indicated by smell. The smell issue is important because MCS sufferers claim to be sensitive to a wide range of chemicals which aren't at all chemically related except for the fact they have a discernable odor. This points the way to believe that MCS is a sociogenic disease. That is sufferers get real symptoms based on their belief that "bad" chemicals are present, whether they are or aren't. For the lowdown on MCS you can check Quackwatch.org for the MCS article. http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/ mcs.html
The will is a powerful agent. It does exist for those that are certain they experience it. So I second your opinion that he or she would be better off ridding himself or herself of the belief.
For most of my life, I have had a pretty cavalier attitude about environmental pollutants,and currently work around a lot of paper dust. I definitely knew I was very allergic to certain wood dusts, cat dander, and so on, but I also greeted similar stories of multiple chemical sensitivities with a grain of salt.
About 3 years ago, I got a really nasty respiratory virus that turned into pneumonia, which resulted in a trip to ER, kept me out of work for the better part of 2 weeks, and asthmatic for months afterwards. 7 months later, just as I was feeling good again, I got another bad cold that left me with even worse asthma for the entire summer, and into fall. For months, just driving near a sewage treatment plant, breathing cold dry air, a little more dust than usual, cooking odors, household cleaners, and yes, that new computer/tv/car smell would be enough to tighten my chest and leave me short of breath. Even today, though I am better about most things again, I can feel my chest tighten up when I smell for instance, a truck's overheated brakes out on the highway (which smells a lot like hot electronics). My logic tells me that the concentration of the offending irritants is miniscule, but odors have a way of directly triggering strange reactions sometimes.
Seriously, why that chair over say a wood chair with fabric upholstery? That Herman Miller chair has got to be 85+% plastic. Or, is it just becuase the website for the chair mentions "95% recyclability" and that phrase somehow magically makes you immune to the fact that the Mirra chair is going to contain quite a few of the chemicals you say make you "sick".
This story is just in time. I was putting together a new computer a couple of days ago when i noticed a smell on my hands from the motherboard. It's not a bad smell. Infact, after I put everything together, i took a good smell before I put the side panel on. Might explain why I was a little out of it the past day or so..
*Anyone* who likes Big Macs even a little bit should catch Supersize Me, in which a documentary filmmaker does nothing but eat McDonald's food for an entire month.
Just before release of the film, McDonald's suddenly removed the supersize option from their menus. "Menu simplification," they called it. Tee hee.
Funny how unvarnished, unglued wood is wonderful and safe. Most people in the woodworking industry (especially the fine work stuff, heavy hardwoods, etc.) feel somewhat differently. Check out this table of wood toxicities for some properly backed data.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Good god, you spent a long time posting that, and in response to the month's most obvious troll.
I will say this once, to *all* people who responded to this ridiculous article:
YHBT. YHL. HAND.
It's not difficult to find all of those items in aluminum versions.
l um inum_keyboard.php
For instance, a quick search turned up this keyboard
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/zippy_a
A nice aluminum keyboard. I think I'm going to get one to match the brushed aluminum case I was looking at.
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
Unless you can exercise impeccable self control, the Mirra chair, or any mesh chair for that matter, sounds like it would not meet the "Hardware that doesn't stink" criteria.
Maybe if you attach a HEPA filter underneath.
You know that guy in the movie The Graduate who says "I want to say one word to you. Just one word...plastics." to Dustin Hoffman's character?
You're his son, aren't you?
k.
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
If you're bored with your job ... go fishing...or post stupid comments to slashdot.
You've got your head so far up your arse you can't see how sunny it is. While you whinge about what materials your mouse is made from, people in Afghanistan get no choice about the materials used to make 'their' cluster bombs.
Frizzin frazzin frekin
I love the smell from the mobo's and it's like the only sign I have that tells me that the mobo's new. But then people could've sprayed it.
But I've been smelling digital gears for quite some time and ah fuck it, I am weird!.
WOW! We be edumacated!
Then again, it could just be a conspiracy?
"I love the smell of a PCB board in the morning.."
Why do you think you need to clean the inside of your winshield so often??
Top ten reasons:
10. When you fire the gun from in there, the gunshot residue stays in the car.
9. Because if I don't clean it, the gasses from the film on the inside make me wheeze.
8. When I hit the brakes hard, Rover goes flying. Whee!
7. If you leave cookies on the dashboard for a half hour they get warm. Mmmm...
6. If you leave cookies on the dashboard for a half year, they grow a fine green hair.
5. My parents never leave the house, and my "special" friend just got this bear costume...
4. I blame the Bush administration!
3. It's been like that since I started eating lunch at White Castle.
2. My erupting foot-fungus is none of your business!
and the number 1 reason:
1. Porno Tuesdays at the drive-in!
There was a great article recently in the New Yorker (search on 'Cheese Nun') about the efforts of a nun (with a Phd in Microbiology) to make authentic, unpasteurized French cheeses. Some interesting stuff about the fact that she tried making cheese in a highly sanitized environment, and actually had a big problem with E. Coli bacteria! Usual excellent writing from New Yorker.
You... must... be... kidding.
Well, at least we know what OOG THE OPEN SOURCE CAVEMAN uses.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Those lists are the problem. It's a big issue for psychiatrists. The doctors who have had a lot of contact with the patients who do have early onset bipolar can tell quickly whether a given patient does.... it's blindingly obvious. It isn't a minor thing.
Write a description down, though, try to have other doctors diagnose based on that... you'll have trouble.
Ah well. A major gene for schizophrenia was identified about a year back. In ten years, we'll have all the "controversial" psych diseases classified genetically and we can stop talking about it.
Just buy used equipment and stop wasting everyones time. Jerk.
Unfortunately, no one can be told what my sig is...
...and I have to wear RayBans 'cos cd's blind me. Must be nice.
I used to hate Windows. Couldn't stand it. Made me sick. Well one day I decided to try it even though I didn't like it. Felt like I had wasted my time. Know what I did? I used more Windows. After about 5 Windows sessions I was startin' to dig it. Now I really like Windows. Sometimes you have just to grin and bare (sic) it until your body adjusts. Now maybe you have a serious medical condition and are literally allergic to this stuff. In which case, you can probably get some injections that will very slowly expose your body to it until you are used to it. But chances are you're not seriously allergic to this stuff, you're just a big cry baby. Have the damn Windows.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
When I was a kid, I had a friend who had neo-hippie parents. The kind that gradually gets more and more insane.
When I first met him, they were fairly normal. They ate rice cakes and stuff, but that's fine.
Then he had to start sleeping on a glass bed, because hypoallergenic beds apparently weren't good enough.
Then they forced him to watch TV through a MIRROR, so the radiation couldn't get to him.
I haven't heard from him in ages, but I can imagine he ended up living in a bubble.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
The following stuff may be emitting formaldehyde
Unfortunately Urea-Formaldehyde (UF) Resin isn't always used properly when making furniture.
Guess what doesn't alway get done
Ammonia is a treament but
A chemical engineer, who worked in the field, would do the following. Since, sadly, he was sensitive to formaldehyde fumes, he would:
When checking into a hotel room with new furniture, a sniff would detect formaldehyde fumes. Then, he would find the maid and ask her for a few ashtrays and some ammonia. He would then explain his plan to the maid. He would pour ammonia into the ashtrays he placed around his room and leave the room. The maids were asked to not make the room up (or at least not empty the ashtrays). When he returned, the room was now free of formaldehyde fumes, to his own benefit and all subsequent quests.
Seeing IKEA in this post made me cringe. I hope that anyone here has enough sense in them to be a very, very selective shopper there. It's appalling how much cheap crap they sell to people thinking they're getting a great deal. Fiber board is rarely a good deal. Here's a hint: if something doesn't seem right on the store's floor, it's not going to be right at home, especially not after a year of regular use. I know that there a plenty of other stores that peddle the same crap, but IKEA has made it their thing to only sell low quality products. Basically, you get what you pay for. If you want high-quality furniture especially, get it local. You won't be disappointed.
I am feeling fat and sassy
If your computer's exhaust or keyboard smell or whatever is enough to make you sick... get a bubble or kill yourself.
:-P
It is pretty tough to advoid non-allergy safe computers, I mean they are eveywhere. Not to mention everything else in our atmosphere that will make you sick.
Have I missunderstood something?
http://brandonbloom.name
Your computer smells? Open the god damn windows then and quit being a cry baby.
;)
Of course your problem might be an allergy to windows in the first place. I think thats quit a common complain to the slashdot doctor
You mean in an inert wood bubble.
Yahh, hiii haaaaa! -Major Kong, from Dr. Strangelove
Patient: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this!"
*pokes self*
Doctor: "Don't do that!" *cymbal hit*
*patient thinks*
*patient thinks*
Patient: "um... Doctor, it hurts when I do ANYTHING!"
That's a very poor example. I had a kid in my class in elementary school (Calistoga Elementary, CA) about 18 years ago who died upon eating a chocolate cake that contained peanut at the school cafeteria. He never knew that peanuts were present until his windpipe closed off. Point is, it wasn't caused by learning that there were peanuts in the cake, that only came afterwards. Some allergies are very real, and not at all related to psychological factors. That being said, I think the submitter needs a big fat pillbox of placebo to get over his illness...
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
you should smell the new data cartridge tapes my company gets from Imation. I think my supervisor said it best "that they smell just like baby shit", no joke.
This sig was generated by a barrel of trained kittens for SeXy_Red (550409).
WeBlowItUp
I work for a computer manufacturer and one of the test we do is plastic outgasing. Basically we measure how much chemicals are being released into the air over time from plastic parts. The limits for this have been changing and so have the plastics. Many of the new plastics have very low outgasing. These should start showing up soon, if not already.
Now we don't have much issue with this in my division (server) because everything is made out metal except for a few small fillers, etc.
P.S. That film you get on inside of your car window. That is your dash outgasing chemicals.
CFS is not very well understood, but the CDC does have some criteria that can be used to diagnose CFS.
There is some recent research (International Journal of Epidemiology, 2004 Jul 15) that indicates that at least some folks with MCS may have a genetic predisposition -- certain genes help regulate how the body inactivates toxins, and a correlation was detected between folks with MCS and those with certain PON* and NAT* genotypes (or whatever -- I'm a geek, not a geneticist!). That gives a good explanation why some folks' bodies just can't deal with what the rest of us shrug off.
One explanation for the effect this has that you can find on the web is that with CFS, the immune system is hyperactive, so when you get exposed to something like a very fragrant shampoo :), your body kicks in, and it's like you have the flu -- lethargy, muscle and body pain, etc. If I'm remembering right, it's similar to how allergies work -- your body starts producing histamines to counter what it sees as an invader, but overdoes it, causing congestion/sneezing/headaches/etc., and causing some great financial results for the makers of Allegra, Sudafed, etc.
My wife got a skin rash last weekend from some fragrance-laced (saturated!) water that got spilled on a restroom countertop -- that's not hypochondria! And my toddler son gets hives (little red bumps on his skin) if he eats wheat products. (We've carefully done numerous experiments to prove, to my engineering satisfaction, that wheat is the key. This isn't a one-time occurrence, but a proven pattern.) I don't know of anyone who can use their brain, consciously or unconsciously, to make these kinds of physical manifestations occur.
So while I can't speak about whether your relatives are nuts :), I can say that there are at least some folks who aren't nuts, and there are at least some folks (but not very many) in the medical community that are working on helping these folks.
BTW, the Seabiscuit book author has CFS as well -- if she's a hypochondriac, she's managed to fool quite a lot of people.
The manual skills are not hard to develop (I have some experience of this, since I make lutes), and there are plenty of good patterns freely available if he doesn't have a clear eye for design.
This would also give him something to focus on other than his frailties.
what a pussy. deal with it.
Desktop: Power Mac G5 with Cinema Display
Laptop: PowerBook G4
You answered your own question.
It is the same story in mining. I have worked several years underground, and the common-sense gap between the engineers and the real world is pretty amazing. When you have engineering telling you that air quality is good because it isn't setting off the gas meters, yet the air is so thick with smoke you can only see 10' and is about 100 degrees instead of 60 you know those pwople are spending too much time behind desks....
IMO it is because kids come right out of high school, never having to work a real job (flipping burgers is not a 'real' job) and go on to college, being funded by financial aid, and graduate utterly clueless about the real world, as opposed to the old days where the majority of people that got engineering degrees worked theit way through school and were well reounded and experienced by the time they graduated.
That being said I am finishing my engineering degree right now after working in the industry as a miner for the last 7 years....
1. When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend.
2. Do not eat iPod shuffle.
DON'T BREED!
Slashdot Eds Link Anonymous Posts With Logged Posts
They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
I Hate \.
Using one or more air cleaners with HEPA filters and activated carbon to keep your indoor air clean helps a lot. Get the highest capacity unit you can afford. My current favorite is Austin Air. If VOC's are especially troublesome, consider an additional filter unit with activated carbon. If you are living in a sick building, it might be necessary to move. The air cleaners can only do so much.
As to the computer hardware, I would be most suspicious of the cables and other flexible parts. They will have more plasticizer than the rigid parts. I have had mixed success with wiping down especially stinky cables with alcohol.
Next be suspicious of parts that get hot, like the circuit boards and power supply.
I have used the strategy of buying used equipment, just make sure it wasn't previously owned by a smoker.
For new equipment, my strategy is to burn it in, i.e. buy hardware in the summer and run it constantly with the windows open.
Also be careful with laser printers. The toner can release styrene (the monomer) which can sensitize you. By heating the paper, they release noxious material from what was put in the paper on purpose as well as what the cellulose fiber absorbs during storage.
Most allergists will tell you to kill your cat. If you sincerely believe ritual sacrifice resolves health problems, consider it. If you try to boost the efficacy of this approach by using a human victim, be warned that you will probably end up in jail.
The typical allergist will run a bunch of scratch tests. When you show no reaction, they will inject the material. When there is still no reaction (but you react to histamine) and you still have severe allergy symptoms and start naming names of compounds you recognize in the air (I have two degrees in chemistry) they will tell you those are irritants, not allergens. So, the post that said they test for almost everything was highly exaggerated. They test for known allergens, especially those that are known from the time when most people lived on farms. Your "irritants" are produced by big companies who can afford to lobby your government.
There I just saved you a couple grand that you can put toward buying a good air filter.
Despite what is in a lot of the comments posted, your chemical sensitivity (or chronic fatique or fibromyalgia) is probably quite real, but don't dismiss the idea that it may be a symptom of an underlying condition. In my case, it was mitochondrial disease.
You will also find that a lot of medical personnel will tell you your problems are in your head instead of trying to help, especially if they don't get it right with the first guess.
Be warned that way too many physicians get through school by using frat files, cheating on exams, and cramming instead of trying to understand basic principles of biology and chemistry and getting good at problem solving. Hopefully you will find ones who took their education seriously before the others cause permanent harm.
Good luck!
It might not be phooey. I used to use one of the old True Blue IBM 50 pound metal keyboards before (don't remember the model) and when I had to switch to a regular keyboard like todays models are now I would destroy them in 6 months. The reason being is that I could wail away on the old metal one without damaging it. But I had to lighten my touch a bit with the newer keyboards because I would take out space bars like nobodys business. I spent $20 on my most recent keyboard and I had the previous one for about 7 years and it still works to some degree considering the punishment I give them.
~S
If the cat causes allergy, then everybody that came in contact with the cat would get an allergic reaction, right?
Having a form of common sense actually imbues a form of bias in the methodology of the human thinking process. By lacking common sense, your brain is more easily tuned to logical thinking without fear to the final answers during the scientific investigation process. That is to say, engineers are logically open minded but with a slight enigma; they don't like new rules as that may change the paradigm to their current order of thinking.
Life is not for the lazy.
It's all in your head.
actually yeah, i prolly would. Always wondered what it feels like. Just a little 22 to the outer thigh or some such minor flesh wound.
"Come back here! I'll bite you to death!"
No offense, but if it's that bad, just move to a small fishing village in the third world and learn how to fish.
1. Buy yourself a nice clean unvarnished wooden peg.
2. Place the peg on your nose.
3. See a shrink who deals with hypochondria
4. Profit!!!
Basically, you are getting sick because your head wants you to be sick. Believe that and you are half way home. Now for the next two months, do something incredibly pleasurable when you are near your machine. Eat chocolate, have sex, get massaged, anything you can do to feel extrodinarily good when you smell that smell.
After two months you will really LOVE that new computer smell.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
And let's not forget the smell of the DIN cable that came with the 1541. I swear you could get high from it.
There is something wonderful in seeing a wrong-headed majority assailed by truth. ~John Kenneth Galbraith
Really, really don't.
E45 is made from Lanolin.
Now, if you read the label carefully, it claims it's "hypo-allergenic" lanolin.
That's a bunch of crap.
If you have an allergy related dermatitis, do _not_ use E45, or other lanolin based emollient. You end up with exposure to lanolin, and it is liklely that you will develop an allergic reacion to the lanolin.
That's what happend to me. Atopic dermatisis (aka eczema), and after about 8 months, I'd developed an allergy to lanolin so severe that I'd rather pour sulphuric acid over my skin, than put lanolin near it.
Now, you (the grandparent) may be lucky, and not become sensised to lanolin. It's not worth the risk - I can't handle most new woolen goods, because the traces of lanolin are there.
E45 is fine if you have unbroken, but dry, skin. That's not the case for people with chronic dermatitis.
What you actually want is aqueaus cream, or emulsifying ointment. Ask your pharmacist, they're about 1/3 the price for 4 times the volume, more effective, and not going to bite you in the ass later on.
Window unit and whole-house unit. They bring in outside air, do heat and humidity exchange with the indoor air, then vent the stale indoor air.
Newer homes are sealed up so tight for energy-efficiency reasons that they don't "breathe" very well. Throw in paint fumes and whatever else and if you already have allergies, all that will make them worse. (Use low-VOC indoor paint!)
It's a freaking aphrodisiac! The distinct smell that is a combination of motherboard finishing chemicals and components is like nothing else. I'm just glad there isn't a cologne to reproduce the smell, I'd wear it all the time.. :(
Metal chairs, and probably metal anything, that's been painted/lacquered CAN release high amounts of VOCs...known from personal unpleasant experiences.
The smell of shitty animation smells like solder.... I kid, I kid. DBZ is ok.
That's right. All your base.
Obviously you're not meant to survive in this modern world of plastic. My advice is to overdose on plastic and hope that you'll survive and become immune or better yet die and free up a valuable tech job.
Are you gay? DO YOU LIKE MACS? ARE YOU *GAY* FOR MACS? MacFag.com
Most soaps contain cow urine.
No, many soaps contain urea. It's not cow urine, although it is *found* in cow urine. It's also found in pretty much any other kind of urine, hence the name. It's not actually made from urine.
No, that's not what it should be. It should be "If you drive a car, you already lose: almost every fascia component is polypropylene; include the ABS/PC, PMMA, PE and the non-fascia PP, the TPEs, etc., and the amount is even higher."
Please learn:
a) to spell (it's not ammount, nor proove, nor, in that context, loose).
b) to punctuate ("Some days, I'm an idiot."; "TPEs", not "TPE's")
c) the meaning of words. The fascia is the dash of the car. You can't have an "exterior fascia component" (unless you're planning a car with an exterior dashboard). You mean trim. "Loose" means "not fastened". "To lose" means "to not win".
If you can't or won't learn these things, please at least have the decency not to reply to yourself claiming to correct your own grammar.
Solves the problem simply.
I'm sure hypochondria is not an uncommon complaint among geeks and is probably more prevalent amongst introverted people. I am not saying the article author is not genuine. Nor am I saying anyones ailments posted on here are not genuine.
Although doctors are not infallable I am more likely to believe a qualified physician or practicianer than I am someone who says they have a particularly unbelieveable allergy or illness.
Remembering schooldays, the very same people who were fascinated with computers, were reluctant to play sports. A few of these, not all would have notes in order to avoid this, some of which were admittedly coerced from willing parents.
It makes me wonder if this wasn't an introduction into this, but then I am no psych major.
I am sure this post will probably be moderated down, but I feel its something that should be said anyway.
Are you attempting to suggest that the parent story in no way displays any frailties on the part of the writer?
Overlapping symptomes?
Vagueness?
Ikea stinks, they employ children in third world countries. They evade taxation, they exercise monopoly practises (in EU) and they treat their contractors and employees like vomit. Don't buy it, it stinks. Better buy something from a small local producer, at least if you have any ethics in your buying.
Modern medicine can test for a couple of thousasnds of allergenes, if you rich, you could probably test for a couple of tens of thousands, but there is now way, no way that you could test for "all".
And no, penicillin does not cure all diseases. And yes, there are indications that mobile phones may distrub red blood cells and cause clotting(according to published articles and well known papers)
One of many PhD of Biomedicine and Biotechnology
Man, that was one hell of a rant. Do you feel better for getting it off your chest? :)
I used to make and work with plastics.
Two-part resins with accelerators were best of all. The smell from these was enough to put you off breakfast, lunch and tea. I forget the names apart from one, HY219. Banned after I'd been using it for several years. It contained carcinogens if I remember right. Nice!
Expanded polystyrene was another good one. We used of a lot of it to make shell patterns for foundries. The thing I remember most about expanded polystyrene was that all the flies in the workshop were basically brain-dead. They did not fly off when you went to squash them with your finger. Nice again!
Enjoy your day.
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
an xb0x joypad also smells great. put your nose into the memory card slot and take a wiff, powerful stuff. best done when new of course, but the smell is rather long lasting so you may try in even now if you have an xb0x.
xb0x
Could supply you literally with a framework to build on. Not overly expensive either, though all the (aluminium) elements add up ...
MB Building Kit System
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
Mod Parent Up. Period.
I know of at least one hypochondriac, and at least one horder (which in my opinion, is the same disorder--attention whore). Plastics abound, and so do delusions. Goodbye.
I think these guys might be more help to this lady...
Honestly now, is this for real ? Do people actually pay to have someone "burn-in" their cables ? What is the science behind it ? If any!
EXACTLY! Plasticizers are being made a scape-goat here. The problem lies in that lady's mind (or her cat), not her computer. I mean, please. Come on. She needs help, not a clean room. :)
And his website seems to think that elevated 1,25-dihdroxycholecalciferol causes chronic fatigue. "scientific proof for chronic fatigue".
The reason CFS patients have more of the active form of Vitamin D is that they sit around on their arses doing nothing while their bones fall to bits.
This is not news. It is basic physiology. Active vitamin D promotes calcium absorption from the gut to replace that lost by inactivity.
If you want a cause, there a pretty plausable one here.
Why don't they get well? They don't get well if it is better to be ill. Simple really.
Humorous signatures are over-rated.
I've practicall only bought second hand computers and parts for the last 10 years. If you buy them from non-smoking workplaces or households, they usually have stopped stinking years ago.
Tip: start smoking. It will dramatically decrease your abbillity to smell things (especially when exhaling the smoke through your nose).
www.vanheusden.com - home of Multitail, HTTPing, CoffeeSaint, EntropyBroker, rsstail, bsod, listener, nagcon, nagi
Would someone please get this person a bubble?
This is what happens when we nurture a society
and we prevent mother nature from weeding out the unfit members of nature.
100 years ago this person would of been dead by now.
Or living in some dirty city like london and still
would be dead.
REMOVE ALL WARNING LABELS and watch society start
to right itself again.
And hey if you are that sensitive to the shit maybe you should get a clue, and walk down another path that has less of these chemicals.
No you are going to insist on using a computer
which is guranteed to be of manmade chemicals.
Start an anti-allergic treatment using drugs like Zyrtec. Will work for sure!
...and caffeine, apparently, is something it is very hard to avoid.
The secret of success is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake those, you've got it made. (Marx)
Thanks, saved me from having to do it. /Grammar Nazi.
"Don't you love the smell of napalm in the morning? It smells like VICTORY!" :-))
polybrominated diphenyl ethers or PBDE for short, is similar in nature to PCB's which actually can effect your health way beyond allergies. Here's a couple sites for you to visit. Not to mention all the toxic metals used in the board that constantly being heated up.
f m 6 10297.html
http://www.computertakeback.com/the_problem/bfr.c
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/04/1086203
If the smell from NEW computer items really gives that amount of trouble just place the newly purchased item(s) in a dry, well ventilated place for one or two days. If you place them outside(caution: direct sunlight, rain, thieves), especially if there's a breeze or it is slightly windy it's even better. I usually do this process for monitors, keyboards and mice (i.e. mostly plastic stuff).
Most of the smelly chemicals will 'evaporate' leaving the item odourless.
Note: do not keep items in direct sunlight or heat; not only this can cause damage to the item but it can also INCREASE the offending smell.
- "They misunderestimated me."
I have to worry enough about groups like the Sierra Club trying to ban my dirt bikes and snowmobiles. Now it looks like they'll probably be wanting to ban my computers as well...
Here's a word of advice: Breath it in, it's only bad for you if you live in the state of Kalifornia...
...I used to work for. ~90% of employees (myself included) started complaining of headaches when using the new computers. Apparently the IBM monitors had a new type of fire retardent sprayed onto them which, during prolonged use, led to a gas being released that caused these headaches. (the 10% not getting headaches were those managers suitably high-up enough to have laptops).
I am NaN
Why don't you try refurbished systems (PCs are are a year old) That way the new computer smell is gone. But you still have a decent system. I know there is a lot of people who frown on refurbished systems because they were returned. But in many cases refurbished systems last longer then New PCs because all the parts have been burned in and well tested. And when they resell them back they repair the problems if there was any. Many times systems get back on the refurbished market because of short leases. The company goes out of business or the Repo man got to them for not paying their bills. Some people get a new computer every year and sell back there old ones. So you are using Almost New Technology and saving a ton of cash and it doesn't smell. Good deal!
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Zeolite is a chalky substance that absorbs odors and chemicals from the air. A NASA engineer I know says they use it in some of their satellites to prevent contamination. My wife put several bags of it on her new monitor and, although it didn't completely get rid of the smell, it did help.
When she bought a new car, she aired it out a lot, rented an ozone machine and ran it in the car overnight, and put a lot of zeolite in the car, and the new car smell was vanquished in a couple of months.
I have to say that I'm disappointed with Slashdot today. MCS is a real problem. Just because some arrogant doctor doesn't understand the mechanism doesn't mean it doesn't exist. My wife met a lot of skepticism from doctors about her problems - one very highly regarded diagnostician told her it was all in her head and sent her to a psychiatrist who specializes in these cases. The shrink met with her a few times and told her it wasn't in her head, she really was sick. The doctors never did figure it out and she found help in alternative medicine.
Too many doctors think that they know it all. Sorry, guys, you don't know it all, and if you would stop being so arrogant and open your minds you might learn something new.
No sig? Sigh...
Not being synical.. but I have just two words for you that come to my mind while I'm reading this : "Fight Club"
:)
Nuff Said...
Ikea boy
The Nomad
"Men of lofty genius when they are doing the least work are most active."-da Vinci
stop being a little bitch!
wah, wah, wah, my computer smells like plastic
be happy it's not made out of dog shit
More wussies running around this world who can't tolerate anything because they're too frail.
As the allergist stated above - these people are more than a little mental...
Kenny P.
Visualize Whirled P.'s
There is no better an odor than new electronics. bling, bling
http://www.techyrants.com
Makes me wonder how the human race survived this long with all these people being allergic to everything, having all these problems and such. Do you think people in third world countries have problems with ADD, ADHD, and all these other mind problems? Americans are just too spoiled and need to come up with things to draw attention to themselves. I see it every day. Sad really.
gtaylor writes "You know that new computer smell? Some people (like me) get sick from it. Can Slashdot readers provide good suggestions for mice or keyboards made from ceramic, unlacquered hardwood, metal, etc, non-plastic headphones and microphones, screens like the new metal-framed cinema display from Apple, etc?"
I know what you mean, it made me sick too. Fortunately I managed to solve this problem by washing my hands every time I visit images.google.com. But interestingly enough, I have also thought about mice and keyboards made from ceramic, taking example from the floor and walls in my bathroom.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
I saw this commercial on TV where all the furniture was made of ice and the whole house was kept below 32 degrees F. :)
I was kinda leaning over to Kerry's side until he pulled his "More Sensitive War" BS last week. That blew it for me. Bush needs to go back in and kick more ass. I am glad Saddam is out, he was a threat whether people want to admit it or not.
Oh well, better to go along with it. After all, you know what they say: The proof is in the pudding.
Never confuse volume with power.
I like your description of allergies - it really cuts to the chase, so to speak.
It also made me wonder, what possible good could swelling up the windpipe do, even if the threat is legitimate? Some allergic reactions are understandable, knowing that the immune system is only reacting (or over-reacting) with good intentions gone bad, but others are so over-the-top they defy my (admittedly limited) understanding.
I suppose a present-day analogy would be making people take off their shoes at airport security checkpoints - has it ever really stopped a terrorist? Probably not, but it probably makes some people gag from the odor.
A post a day keeps productivity at bay.
Fluorescent tends to fade your pretty white computer to that dingy brown, and those car nuts NEVER use them in their garage because they fade their paint.
Perhaps she has fluorescent lights in her bedroom and they're fading her brain?
Next time, perhaps you should teah her how to fold a tinfoil hat to protect herself from the lights.
You've done the tough part, and figured out it's the "new" odors that bother you. The obvious is usually the best solution. Why do you need a new computer? To run that fancy new XP SP2? Just upgrade an old machine instead, throw on SuSE 9.1, and don't look back.
Try bringing a bucket of cat.
Never confuse volume with power.
That the Amish have a nice computer and office accessory factory in Ohio. Have you looked for their catalog online?
who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
When I referred to the "original poster" in my comment, I meant just that. The original post in this thread was by "simoniker on Thursday August 19, @08:18AM".
... from the OPs website sums it up:
I have a (by any measure) genius level IQ, an acknowledged writing talent, and started university at age 14.
Why are these people alway genius's? Does MCS, FM and CFS never occur in the dumb-asses that are 95% of the population?
----- There are two kinds of people in this world, my friend; those with loaded guns, and those who dig.
I bet you're one of those that reboots your computer every time the tech support guy tells you, aren't you?
You do have a point in that not everything is known about the human body, but the perception that he's being intellectually lazy isn't fair based on the circumstances presented. The simple fact of the matter is that people very rarely know exactly what is wrong with them until it's PROPERLY diagnosed by a physician and they recognize the symptoms again in the future.
Case in point (n=1, so salt.amount="grain"):
My wife has lived her whole life with migraines. Her family history is that her mother has severe allergies to flowers and plants. My wife tends to get migraines more often in her time of the month. She has been on birth control because of various problems. When she gets the headaches they are connected with severe congestion with colored discharges from her nasal and sinus passages. A cat scan revealed she has an unusually narrow (forgive me for not knowin the correct label) upper nose passage. Initial diagnosis: Sinus infections caused by allergens collecting in her nasal passages. Treatment with migraine medicine reduces the effect.
Sounds like a good diagnosis right? It was an acceptable one, except the REAL answer turned out to be secret option "D": She had undiagnosed bipolar disorder(2). Treatment with anticonvulsants and antipsychotics for the bipolar almost completely removed all her headaches and associated flulike symptoms and she hasn't had a sinus infection for over a year. Adding a small amount of Allegra for her known dog allergies fixed her problem entirely.
My point is we both KNEW she allergies and they were causing her headaches. She KNEW how to self diagnose a sinus infection. What we couldn't possibly identify ourselves was the allergies were aggravated by an underlying mental problem, and it wasn't until she took her doctor's advice to see a p-doc that we were able to actually fix them.
It's a long way of saying you can BOTH be right. One doctor is often not enough, so trust your doctor's referrals to psychiatric care.
Never confuse volume with power.
Get a damned fan, open the window, and put up some air fresheners.
Or just quit working around modern electronics.
If it's a real allergy, allergy injections are highly effective, and were just the focus of a 20+ year that showed they maintain their effectiveness for a very long time.
Never confuse volume with power.
Presumably older equipment would produce less fumes than newer, yes? It's perfectly possible to get a 15-year-old IBM Model M PC keyboard off Ebay or elsewhere, and it's a fabulous keyboard - will last pretty much forever.
You might like to take a look at the furnature at http://www.boltz.com/.
Perhaps the author of this post should do some research into what exactly ozone does. By and far, the interaction between the ozone created by the Plasmacluster and the paint, carpet, wall coverings, etc., will produce far worse chemicals than will ever come off the computer.
Seriously, what does ozone do? It breaks down plastics & other petroleum based products. Where do the chemicals created from the breakdown go? Do they stick to the metal plates in the ozone maker, or do they hang out in the air for awhile? Try this; take two brand new rubber bands. Place one in a ziplock bag, seal it very well and hang it on the Plasmacluster. Take the other rubber band and hang directly on the Plasmacluster, unprotected. Presumably they'd be exposed to the same amount of UV since a ziplock bag has no UV inhibitors. So the only difference between the two would be the exposure to ozone.
Check back in a month or so. Stretch each rubber band out and see what happens. Where'd all those chemicals from the brittle rubber-band go? As items off-gas from the reaction with ozone, those gasses hang out until they get trapped by either the Plasmacluster or something else in the room like your lungs.
and they sound awesome. :)
Just raise the taxes on crack.
Regardless of whether or not you believe that multiple chemical sensitivity exists, you have to admit that many of the chemicals used to manufacture plastics, IC's, and other parts of computer equipment are extremely toxic.
I personally get severe headaches from most types of perfume and air fresheners. Guess what, the US goverment does not regulate the contents of perfume and many of the ingredients are known neurotoxins. I personally consider it a blessing that I can't use perfumed product because it will problem prevent much worse damage later in life.
If most people knew how little the government does to protect them against hazardous chemicals in household product I think they would be angry.
In a previous job, I once had to install long monitor and keyboard/mouse cables because the employee beileved her computer was giving off harmful radioactivity and other radiation. We placed the computer on the other side of the room. Of course this employee sat with her nose 12" from her CRT, no raditation escaping from THAT.
But this was a *tech writer*, so that explains everything.
Can Slashdot readers provide good suggestions for mice or keyboards made from ceramic, unlacquered hardwood, metal, etc, non-plastic headphones and microphones, screens
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This reminds me of William Gibson's Idoru http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/042
where people start buying custom, hand-built laptop cases from some Native American tribe in Washington state.
One of the main characters has a laptop of cast aluminum. But, as the book explains, it's also possible to get cases made from ivory, wood and a bunch of other natural materials...all lovingly handcrafted.
Of course, it also sounds a bit like case-modding, though that hadn't become popular until several years after Idoru was released.
Just remember, GIBSON IS PSYCHIC! HE CAN SEE THE FUTURE! HE IS THE NOSTRADAMUS OF OUR TIMES!
http://www.woodhoff.com/en/
I work in a lab where we analyse smelly components from polymers. We use a TGA (thermo-gravimetric analyser) which is a balance in an oven and monitors the weightloss at a certain temperature, and a GCMS (gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer) to identify the volatile components. In our experience the components causing the smell of a polymer are only a very small part of all the volatiles from the polymer (mostly less than 1% of all the volatile components). And, when heated to 80C not only PVC's lose volatiles, but also polyethylene, polypropylene and a lot of other plastics (the volatiles are not only the plasticizers, but at these temperatures the polymers start to lose low molecular parts). We also analyse materials with resins (which come from wood), these resins give off much more volatiles than similar amounts of plastics! So a computer out of wood will probably be not a good solution for less volatiles...
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
grammar and spelling arent the same thing :) besides, teaching an engineer how to spell is like doing something impossible... :)
AND Fascia components are ANY components with a purely visual function; your "bumpers" are the front and rear fascia... the "dash" is the Instrument Panel or Cockpit Module or Crashpad (ok, the crashpad is just the superstructure minus the cross car beam).
why am I replying to an anonymous spelling nazi?? I definately need more beer!
My daughter read this thread and was royally pissed.
I'm quoting her here - "(I) got sprayed with Confront herbicide and this, on top of being BORN with a genetic disorder which renders me and some other family members hyper-sensitive to many substances (especially in aerosol, air-borne form), has basically crippled me in the spring and summer months. Some of us DO have to live inside, if we want to live."
For what it's worth, she's not someone who, until the day a couple of years ago when some buildings-and-grounds bozo at her college was spraying this crud in a totally un-approved manner, suffered from anything remotely like this. She is finishing up a PhD in AI, and fortunately can do much of her work from her apartment via a DSL line.
Look at all the happy creatures dancing on the lawn...
1. Go outside and enjoy the world
2. Drink tap water
Stop trying to live in a plastic bubble and your body will adjust.
Computers smell? Thats just completely mad! I have never smelt my computer unless I actually sniff it up close and it smells good! I like the smell of a new Dell, Panasonic and especially love the fresh smell of a Sony!
For example, I have a fabulous Pentium I 75 Mhz system that's been, uh, "airing out" in my garage for a few years, and, just to help out, I'd be willing to let it go at a reasonable price. I personally guarantee there will be no "new computer" smell.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
Maybe he is looking for a computer with built in perfumer:
First Look at ABIT DiGiDice: What Does a Barebone Smell Like?
Seriously, some problems with computers might be related to them being infumigated with
bromine-based flame-retardants. Which is as useful and effective as DDT were, in more ways than intended.
Just for the record, are you also allergic to your own snot?
My lack of God, it's Trotsky!