i hate it when modpoints expire so fast that i don't have any when i see really good posts. btw : "At Sun, we're the radical engineers that build "ass-whoopin" technology - we're not Miss Manners and we never want to be. We ask all you contrarians out there to e-mail us your own provocative ad headlines: my-headline@sun.com"
why don't you send them this quote along with a link to the original post ?;)
according to this thread http://kerneltrap.org/node/5627 at least as far as i can understand, fuse will be included in 2.6.14, right ?
if so, does this mean that i will be finally able to mount ssh "filesystems" ?:)
will there be a need for special utilities (mount etc) ?
i tried searching for more detailed information, but i didn't find any 'featurelist' for general population...ok, after some more searches i found http://fuse.sourceforge.net/:) from that page i gather that special utilities and even libraries will be needed. hopefully distributions will cach up on this fast enough then.
shouldn't it be that you create the document layout defining paper size ? so, if the size changes, the only thing that gets done to the document is scaling, unless you specifically change paper size ?
i usually try to rotate all my pictures with jhead before writing them on cds - but in some of the older cds they were written as-is. now i would like to pump all the images in gallery, bet v2 does not support autorotation based on exif header information. g1 supported it. well, i could copy all images on hdd & run jhead on them (crappy solution), or install g1, add pictures, then try migrating - also crappy solution.
if i could write good code, i could try adding this feature (doesn't seem extremly complicated:) ) - but i can't.
so, if there is anybody in/. who knows php and could add autorotate support to exif module of gallery - that would be really nice.
gallery developers are very friendly and will introduce you to necessary details if you are interested & capable.
"several alternatives" but pretty much based off of the same codebase.
from the already-cited-on-/.-several-times wikipedia :
Applications supporting OpenDocument
A number of applications support OpenDocument: Abiword 2.3, through the OpenWriter plugin eZ publish 3.6, with OpenOffice extension IBM Workplace Knomos case management 1.0 [4] KOffice 1.4, released on June 21st 2005 OpenOffice.org 1.1.5 RC and 2.0 BETA 2 Scribus 1.2.2, imports OpenDocument Text and Graphics TextMaker 2005 beta [5] Visioo Writer 0.5.2 [6]
The first application to implement OpenDocument was KOffice.
so, first, i can spot several apps that are not the same codebase - i assume you referred to oo.org, so (which isn't even included in this list for some reasons) and workplace.
and the first one tom implement this format was from a different codebase - koffice.
there is a list of applications supporting opendocument, and i think we will se it grow a little till the end of year - and then some more after that. this is both important from a compatibility viewpoint, and it also might work as a buzzword - "AND we support opendocument, you surely have heard of it... yes, i thought so..."
i remember reading that ms were in opendocument tc at the beginning, but they dropped out some time later. though they maybe did not sponsor, they had a big chance to develop od so that it would fit their needs perfectly. technical needs, that is.
have you java/flash enabled ? is this reproducible with them both (and all other plugins) disabled ?
i had similar problem with opera - leave it open and once a week all ram is eaten. when i disabled java & flash, it has not had a mem-leak since, so now i'm keeping them disabled by default:)
maybe lvm2 snapshots are worth invetigating - they supposedly support several r/w snapshots.
though if you don't keep a full backup that would be no backup, but this way you probably could achieve versioning so that even if you muss rm for a few days you would be able to get back your files. and it should not take much space as only changes are copied.
well, i haven't tested it myself, but that's what i am going to do - yesterday i set up lvm volumes and experimented with live resizing of reiser. pretty cool:)
and i don't want to play with production system where i could sort of test lvm snapshots, so this test system will feel my wr... um, nothing.
gary edwards, member of oasis opendocuemnt tc, comments on ms xml, od and related stuff. you really should read the whole comment, but i'll cite a couple of excerpts that imho are relevant to your comment:)
"Since MS XML looks to be a clone of OpenDoc XML, i think it's disingenuous to imply that Microsoft put so much time and effort into creating a duplicate XML file format to meet their "legacy" needs. This is a knockoff clear and simple. The work was done by OpenOffice.org, Sun Microsystems, and the OASIS OpenDocument Technical Committee."
"The first 18 months of work at the OASIS OpenDoc TC (...), was focused near entirely on legacy systems. Especially legacy systems wedded to Microsoft binary file formats.
The OpenDoc TC was very fortunate to have a wealth of expertise in reverse engineering the legacy maze of incompatible MS binary file formats. Experts from Corel Office, StarOffice, Boeing, Stellent, ArborText, and SpeedLegal among others had long made their living reverse engineering MS file formats. Phil Boutros, the legendary binary cracking wizard representing Stellent, near single handedly represented what would have otherwise been thought to be the full cooperation of Microsoft in solving these legacy issues."
"At any time Microsoft was and is able to jump into the TC discussion's about their legacy file formats and the transformation issues that were eventually resolved in the OpenDoc XML specification. They did after all have an official membership on the OpenDoc TC."
do you have some more detailed information regarding this ?
pre-2.0 builds of oo.org use opendocument (ods, ods etc) as a default format and these are able to contain all mentioned media.
also, od was based on oo.org file format, several oo.org participants were on oasis committee - i somehow doubt they would have developed a format that would be seriously limited.
Abiword 2.3, through the OpenWriter plugin eZ publish 3.6, with OpenOffice extension IBM Workplace Knomos case management 1.0 [4] KOffice 1.4, released on June 21st 2005 OpenOffice.org 1.1.5 and 2.0 beta Scribus 1.2.2, imports OpenDocument Text and Graphics TextMaker 2005 beta [5]
that's a pretty impressive list - and it is growing:)
well, this probably won't help you much, but i think this feature was completely redesigned for 2.0.
i don't use it myself, but i remember that it was saving without asking and using different file so that automatic saves would never damage original document - but you should check that yourself:)
there are similar problems in oo.org - one of the worst from the point of fixing them is deletion of text that has a picture anchored, but the picture visually is elsewhere.
you can't just delete this picture or leave it in all cases - so there must be some intelligent or semi-intelligent mechanism to determine what to do with the object.
and i was able to file an issue, find out what exactly is ahppening and follow the fixing of the issue - try that with msword;)
yes, openoffice.org supports embedded objects like spreadsheets in text documents, text passages, spreadsheets in presntations and, i think, almost any combination of these in any component.
and it's not something that will be introduced in 2.0 - it has been there... well, for some time - i just can't remember, because it was there when i needed it the first time:)
i think he meant it the other way (though at first i also though about samba).
like a client for windows that would allow windows to use nfs and other thingies.
about why not... probably it was seen that easier would be to develop something that would communicate with windows as remote protovols would be harder to change than internals of windows (i remember talks about ms breaking novell client with some version of windows).
also it gives the chance to interoperate with bare windows systems instead of requiring installation of additional software, so there is bigger acceptance of solutions like that.
yep, but when i think of forms available, i prefer editable format - in some cases fields are too small or too big, so changing their size i can make a document thak looks a lot better and is more readable. of course, this approach would not work for forms that are processed by scanning & automatically recognizing choices, but there are very few if any of them here.
and now when i think of this, i even prefer laws in editable format - not to edit them as such, but to reduce font size, increase margins etc for printing if intend to read it. this way i can approximately 2 times reduce pages needed, which is hard to do with pdf (printing two pages on one side is less readable than customized document).
overall opendocument should be the ultimate goal for every document. pdf isn't impossible to edit, so there is no argument that it would be impossible to edit some text and pass it as the real thing (you could copy from it and then adjust the result, for example).
opendocument supports signatures, so these documents also would be relatively easy to secure where needed.
one case where pdf might be better is exact output - it is possible that opendocument looks slightly different on another machine if a font is missing, but you can embed fonts in pdfs. though how many documents like that are in government published docs ?
that would be pretty stupid:) i assume that od explicitly would be used for cases when user is supposed to edit the document afterwards.
overall, if such a decision stands, it would be really good precedent. given the importance of information today, it is saddening that this is not a common practice.
oh. there have been so many talks about speeding up acroread, about faster version - 7th, about alternative pdf readers. just look up this same article, there are plenty of suggestions for those who dislike acroread. i am using kpdf, so probably my example will not fit you, but there are a lot of windows users who have shared tjeir solutions.
yes, but you cannot save documents in opendocument format with msoffice. so which one is more dangerous to ms (assuming that their marketing army doesn't overrun this state) - more people using oo.org or adding opendocument format to mso ?
supposedly it is od support, but if you make that support crappy...
yep, so that's where opendocument steps in (even though in articles it is refferred to as "open office format", i believe it will be od) - so you get pdfs for read-only stuff (reports, laws and other things citizens would not neet to edit normally;) ) and odt/ods etc for things that could be edited (some forms that must be filled and other things like that)
Slashdot Mirror
i hate it when modpoints expire so fast that i don't have any when i see really good posts.
;)
btw :
"At Sun, we're the radical engineers that build "ass-whoopin" technology - we're not Miss Manners and we never want to be. We ask all you contrarians out there to e-mail us your own provocative ad headlines: my-headline@sun.com"
why don't you send them this quote along with a link to the original post ?
according to this thread
:)
...ok, after some more searches i found http://fuse.sourceforge.net/ :)
http://kerneltrap.org/node/5627
at least as far as i can understand, fuse will be included in 2.6.14, right ?
if so, does this mean that i will be finally able to mount ssh "filesystems" ?
will there be a need for special utilities (mount etc) ?
i tried searching for more detailed information, but i didn't find any 'featurelist' for general population
from that page i gather that special utilities and even libraries will be needed. hopefully distributions will cach up on this fast enough then.
shouldn't it be that you create the document layout defining paper size ?
so, if the size changes, the only thing that gets done to the document is scaling, unless you specifically change paper size ?
i usually try to rotate all my pictures with jhead before writing them on cds - but in some of the older cds they were written as-is. now i would like to pump all the images in gallery, bet v2 does not support autorotation based on exif header information.
:) ) - but i can't.
/. who knows php and could add autorotate support to exif module of gallery - that would be really nice.
g1 supported it.
well, i could copy all images on hdd & run jhead on them (crappy solution), or install g1, add pictures, then try migrating - also crappy solution.
if i could write good code, i could try adding this feature (doesn't seem extremly complicated
so, if there is anybody in
gallery developers are very friendly and will introduce you to necessary details if you are interested & capable.
actually, the program is openoffice.org ;)
ms spokepersons never do their homework
from the already-cited-on-/.-several-times wikipedia :
so, first, i can spot several apps that are not the same codebase - i assume you referred to oo.org, so (which isn't even included in this list for some reasons) and workplace.
and the first one tom implement this format was from a different codebase - koffice.
there is a list of applications supporting opendocument, and i think we will se it grow a little till the end of year - and then some more after that.
this is both important from a compatibility viewpoint, and it also might work as a buzzword - "AND we support opendocument, you surely have heard of it... yes, i thought so..."
i remember reading that ms were in opendocument tc at the beginning, but they dropped out some time later. though they maybe did not sponsor, they had a big chance to develop od so that it would fit their needs perfectly. technical needs, that is.
too bad you are ac :)
thanks for the post anyway, reading these pages & following some links from them was really informative.
have you java/flash enabled ? is this reproducible with them both (and all other plugins) disabled ?
:)
i had similar problem with opera - leave it open and once a week all ram is eaten.
when i disabled java & flash, it has not had a mem-leak since, so now i'm keeping them disabled by default
maybe lvm2 snapshots are worth invetigating - they supposedly support several r/w snapshots.
:)
though if you don't keep a full backup that would be no backup, but this way you probably could achieve versioning so that even if you muss rm for a few days you would be able to get back your files. and it should not take much space as only changes are copied.
well, i haven't tested it myself, but that's what i am going to do - yesterday i set up lvm volumes and experimented with live resizing of reiser. pretty cool
and i don't want to play with production system where i could sort of test lvm snapshots, so this test system will feel my wr... um, nothing.
an interesting and required read for everybody interested in open formats :m l
:)
http://www.redmonk.com/sogrady/archives/000743.ht
gary edwards, member of oasis opendocuemnt tc, comments on ms xml, od and related stuff. you really should read the whole comment, but i'll cite a couple of excerpts that imho are relevant to your comment
"Since MS XML looks to be a clone of OpenDoc XML, i think it's disingenuous to imply that Microsoft put so much time and effort into creating a duplicate XML file format to meet their "legacy" needs. This is a knockoff clear and simple. The work was done by OpenOffice.org, Sun Microsystems, and the OASIS OpenDocument Technical Committee."
"The first 18 months of work at the OASIS OpenDoc TC (...), was focused near entirely on legacy systems. Especially legacy systems
wedded to Microsoft binary file formats.
The OpenDoc TC was very fortunate to have a wealth of expertise in reverse engineering the legacy maze of incompatible MS binary file formats. Experts from Corel Office, StarOffice, Boeing, Stellent, ArborText, and SpeedLegal among others had long made their living reverse engineering MS file formats. Phil Boutros, the legendary binary cracking wizard representing Stellent, near single handedly represented what would have otherwise been thought to be the full cooperation of Microsoft in solving these legacy issues."
"At any time Microsoft was and is able to jump into the TC discussion's about their legacy file formats and the transformation issues that were eventually resolved in the OpenDoc XML specification. They did after all have an official membership on the OpenDoc TC."
pre-2.0 builds of oo.org use opendocument (ods, ods etc) as a default format and these are able to contain all mentioned media.
also, od was based on oo.org file format, several oo.org participants were on oasis committee - i somehow doubt they would have developed a format that would be seriously limited.
as mentioned in this thread and here :
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/office/faq.p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument
od uses existing technologies to support multimedia.
btw, in wikipedia entry i noticed this :
that's a pretty impressive list - and it is growing
well, this probably won't help you much, but i think this feature was completely redesigned for 2.0.
:)
i don't use it myself, but i remember that it was saving without asking and using different file so that automatic saves would never damage original document - but you should check that yourself
there are similar problems in oo.org - one of the worst from the point of fixing them is deletion of text that has a picture anchored, but the picture visually is elsewhere.
;)
you can't just delete this picture or leave it in all cases - so there must be some intelligent or semi-intelligent mechanism to determine what to do with the object.
and i was able to file an issue, find out what exactly is ahppening and follow the fixing of the issue - try that with msword
it is also possible that the poster used oo.org some time ago and stumbled upon some bugs tht are long time fixed.
;)
checking for support in mailing lists and issuezilla can make a difference, too
was this a serious question ? :)
:)
yes, openoffice.org supports embedded objects like spreadsheets in text documents, text passages, spreadsheets in presntations and, i think, almost any combination of these in any component.
and it's not something that will be introduced in 2.0 - it has been there... well, for some time - i just can't remember, because it was there when i needed it the first time
i think he meant it the other way (though at first i also though about samba).
like a client for windows that would allow windows to use nfs and other thingies.
about why not...
probably it was seen that easier would be to develop something that would communicate with windows as remote protovols would be harder to change than internals of windows (i remember talks about ms breaking novell client with some version of windows).
also it gives the chance to interoperate with bare windows systems instead of requiring installation of additional software, so there is bigger acceptance of solutions like that.
but it's proven ! really, it is !
see, here they have a lot of proofs -
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm
was he feeding his cat with a spoon ?
yep, but when i think of forms available, i prefer editable format - in some cases fields are too small or too big, so changing their size i can make a document thak looks a lot better and is more readable. of course, this approach would not work for forms that are processed by scanning & automatically recognizing choices, but there are very few if any of them here.
and now when i think of this, i even prefer laws in editable format - not to edit them as such, but to reduce font size, increase margins etc for printing if intend to read it. this way i can approximately 2 times reduce pages needed, which is hard to do with pdf (printing two pages on one side is less readable than customized document).
overall opendocument should be the ultimate goal for every document. pdf isn't impossible to edit, so there is no argument that it would be impossible to edit some text and pass it as the real thing (you could copy from it and then adjust the result, for example).
opendocument supports signatures, so these documents also would be relatively easy to secure where needed.
one case where pdf might be better is exact output - it is possible that opendocument looks slightly different on another machine if a font is missing, but you can embed fonts in pdfs. though how many documents like that are in government published docs ?
that would be pretty stupid :)
i assume that od explicitly would be used for cases when user is supposed to edit the document afterwards.
overall, if such a decision stands, it would be really good precedent. given the importance of information today, it is saddening that this is not a common practice.
oh. there have been so many talks about speeding up acroread, about faster version - 7th, about alternative pdf readers. just look up this same article, there are plenty of suggestions for those who dislike acroread. i am using kpdf, so probably my example will not fit you, but there are a lot of windows users who have shared tjeir solutions.
it might be interesting to read what gary edwards (a member of oasis opendocument commitee) thinks about microsoft xml and opendocument.m l
http://www.redmonk.com/sogrady/archives/000743.ht
yes, but you cannot save documents in opendocument format with msoffice. so which one is more dangerous to ms (assuming that their marketing army doesn't overrun this state) - more people using oo.org or adding opendocument format to mso ?
supposedly it is od support, but if you make that support crappy...
yep, so that's where opendocument steps in (even though in articles it is refferred to as "open office format", i believe it will be od) - so you get pdfs for read-only stuff (reports, laws and other things citizens would not neet to edit normally ;) ) and odt/ods etc for things that could be edited (some forms that must be filled and other things like that)