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Replacing with default.rc files is going to nuke any and all such settings, including path and ld_preload and whatever else you can find. That's what I'm trying to point out here. Shit with joe-user permissions is not going to be writing/usr/lib any more than writing/bin. Once the user's config files are restored, they will no longer point at the bogus libraries in ~/lib/ or/tmp or wherever.
At the level of joe user, you can stomp on all of this all day long and kill it dead if it never gets elevated. But once this escapes to root permissions, all bets are off and the only thing left to do is nuke and pave.
It's inconsistent. What works in ps doesn't work in top. It says so right in the thread.
I'm done arguing here. It's a userspace thing. At worst, you have to nuke ~/bin/, chmod -x -R everything else in/home/$USER and give the user default.rc files if you don't feel like going through them manually.
For someone who knows what he's doing, no longer than 10 minutes.
It doesn't have the ability to replace which. All anyone can do at user-level is install shit in places that the user has access to - in this case, not overwriting, but altering the path to point at the "new" versions in ~/bin/ or wherever.
It's not friggin' magic. We're not talking of Ken Thompson levels of deviousness here.
>nuke and pave everything
Yes, i have that page from technet too.
Yes, but we are talking about user level shenanigans. User level shit is ridiculously easy to get rid of. Give the user a new set of.rc scripts after removal of the offending program and you're good to go.
Stuff installed with root permission? Yeah, nuke and pave.
which (1) will show you all versions of a program and their location if they exist in your path.
You can get also around programs put in ~/bin/ by typing the absolute paths to top, ps, etc, or just fixing your PATH environment variable.
There's a reason why malware writers, all things being equal, prefer root access. You can make anything appear as anything and patch right down at the kernel level.
Not addressed at you, just in general:
I noticed all the anonymous cowards in this thread shouting "but grandma is never going to type that!!!! HURR!!!!"
Grandma doesn't even know that malwarebytes and other tools even exist for Windows. Grandma is going to have you come over for cookies and milk while you do it for her anyway. Stop being such stupid disingenuous shits.
At least with this, if you are across the country, you can do it remotely through ssh.
Where, exactly, is this going to hide from htop, top, ps or any other process listing facility?
Unlike Windows, OSX and Linux and every other sane OS in the universe, there is no such thing as a "hidden process."
As a user process, it also cannot patch top, ps, or htop, or any other process lister. It cannot fuck with logs. It cannot do anything at all that the ordinary user cannot do. Indeed it runs under the same UID as the logged in user.
ps -uax | grep $USER OH HEY GUYS THAT LOOKS WEIRD killall -9 $SUSPICIOUS PROGRAM rm $PATHTOSUSPICIOUSPROGRAM/SUSPICIOUSPROGRAM
And not even have to have a # in your prompt. No sudo, no su, no nothing.
It's not "argument from authority" that's a fallacy.
The actual fallacy is "argument from improper authority"
Do you really want to say to your doctor "you're using argument from authority to tell me I should get screened for cancer so I won't"?
Really?
The fallacy "argument from improper authority" is "I'm not a doctor but I play one on TV." Which is used time and again on Fox. Demagogues like those found on fox (Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, et alia) all depend on this for their livelihoods.
This is late, but if you look at what actual economists say, upward mobility in the US is the lowest it's been in a very long time.
The upward mobility myth is what keeps the teabaggers in line supporting the GOP. Yes, you too can be a billionaire overnight if you just let us cut taxes for the richest 5 percent and de-fund education and increase taxes on the bottom 60!
It's really cynical what's going on. The part of the public that eats up Fox News is being played like a fiddle in the hands on Itzak Perlman..
I've written my own COGO software since the 80s on various programmable calculators. It's helped with both land surveying and machining (which is why I said toolbox back there). My 48 has been through thick and thin - dropped off rocks, skidded across the shop floor, etc. If I had to replace it, I'd get the 50. My ideal calc would be the 50 with a 48 keypad.
>not replying to the overall thread about not being able to hack the TI
I know, it's just that the kid back there got my hackles up.
TI calcs are pretty much useless to me. Until TI implements RPN and RPL, I'll never buy one.
>humpin' through a swamp with a machete so you don't have to pay the surveyors to do it.
If only more people did this.
"No, I don't wanna pay for a woodcutter" "Oh.... oh kay..." (you really want to pay for 3 people to waste their time cutting bull briars (my scars, let me show you them) instead of measuring your property? really?)
The point, sweetie, is that if I'm gonna haul a total station and a couple of wooden tripods (aluminum ones suck for vibration), water for the day, and lunch on my back, I'm not going to increase the weight with a fucking laptop if I don't have to.
Nobody except the most insane will bring a laptop in the field if it's not required.
Where do you get off raging about how calculators and other handhelds are fucking useless and then hopping up and down about how great desktop applications are when people do real work with calculators because a laptop is completely fucking unsuitable for the environment or job?
Why do I need a fucking laptop in the shop to run a CAD program so I can calculate a dimension a client left off a drawing when I can simply take the calculator and run my COGO program? Or similarly (in my other life) save time by not having to cut down a fucking tree that's in the way?
Similarly, my cousin Sue is not going to be lugging a fucking laptop through a fucking swamp (she's a biologist) to do data collection. Not gonna fucking happen. She's going to use her HP48 and a fucking notebook and a machete (or sandvik bush axe). Because even a Panasonic Toughbook can't take a tumble down a cliff (the HP will).
No, fuck you. Take your troll thread and go the fuck home.
>You'd know that if you ever held a machete you arrogant ass. But I somehow don't see an image of you walking through the jungle with a machete in one hand and your HP or TI calculator in the other even semi realistic.
It's called land surveying. Get out of your basement.
Slashdot Mirror
No, the real heathens are the ones who use Falcon's Eye.
Isotropic rendering in my Nethack? No way, man...
--
BMO
I'm still finding new ways to die in Nethack!
--
BMO
Well, damn, I should have used the preview
That's 800 435 4234, not 4324, for "Ethics Concerns"
--
BMO
Contact Us
We encourage you to contact us via the online resources listed below for a quick response. Have a general question concerning SAIC, but down't know who to contact? Call us at 703 676 4300
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Ethics concerns: 1-800-435-4324
Main business number: 1-800-430-7629
Snail mail:
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--------------
They encourage you to contact them.
Have fun.
--
BMO
>home of pansy candyasses is more accurate.
Indeed, we used to be braver than this not that long ago.
All the boomer "rebels" turned into fraidycats.
No protest songs.
No protests.
If Kent State happened today, people would just shrug their shoulders and blame "the terrorists"
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BMO
But this is all normal-user-privilege stuff.
Replacing with default .rc files is going to nuke any and all such settings, including path and ld_preload and whatever else you can find. That's what I'm trying to point out here. Shit with joe-user permissions is not going to be writing /usr/lib any more than writing /bin. Once the user's config files are restored, they will no longer point at the bogus libraries in ~/lib/ or /tmp or wherever.
At the level of joe user, you can stomp on all of this all day long and kill it dead if it never gets elevated. But once this escapes to root permissions, all bets are off and the only thing left to do is nuke and pave.
--
BMO
So you're flat out stating that ps, prctl, and all the other tools that /come with/ OSX are just as crippled as taskman.exe?
And you call me delusional? When this shit is /required/ for OSX to keep its Unix certification?
*whistle*
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BMO
It's inconsistent. What works in ps doesn't work in top. It says so right in the thread.
I'm done arguing here. It's a userspace thing. At worst, you have to nuke ~/bin/, chmod -x -R everything else in /home/$USER and give the user default .rc files if you don't feel like going through them manually.
For someone who knows what he's doing, no longer than 10 minutes.
And Windows enthusiasts say that "OSX is dumbed down"
Man, I don't know what to say after reading what you wrote. I'm just speechless.
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BMO
It's not running as root.
It doesn't have the ability to replace which. All anyone can do at user-level is install shit in places that the user has access to - in this case, not overwriting, but altering the path to point at the "new" versions in ~/bin/ or wherever.
It's not friggin' magic. We're not talking of Ken Thompson levels of deviousness here.
>nuke and pave everything
Yes, i have that page from technet too.
Yes, but we are talking about user level shenanigans. User level shit is ridiculously easy to get rid of. Give the user a new set of .rc scripts after removal of the offending program and you're good to go.
Stuff installed with root permission? Yeah, nuke and pave.
--
BMO
So here's the question:
Why won't task manager show hidden processes?
Why do I have to rely on a third party (Sysinternals) now bought by Microsoft, just so I have the ability to see these things?
You'd think that after 11 years of consumer-level NT (XP, Vista, 7) they'd just include "show hidden processes" in taskman.
--
BMO
which (1) will show you all versions of a program and their location if they exist in your path.
You can get also around programs put in ~/bin/ by typing the absolute paths to top, ps, etc, or just fixing your PATH environment variable.
There's a reason why malware writers, all things being equal, prefer root access. You can make anything appear as anything and patch right down at the kernel level.
Not addressed at you, just in general:
I noticed all the anonymous cowards in this thread shouting "but grandma is never going to type that!!!! HURR!!!!"
Grandma doesn't even know that malwarebytes and other tools even exist for Windows. Grandma is going to have you come over for cookies and milk while you do it for her anyway. Stop being such stupid disingenuous shits.
At least with this, if you are across the country, you can do it remotely through ssh.
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BMO
From your linkypoo:
>There is a catch, which is that "ps" and "top" can show you either the "command line" or the "program name", and we can only modify the command line.
So no, you still can't hide it.
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BMO
Where, exactly, is this going to hide from htop, top, ps or any other process listing facility?
Unlike Windows, OSX and Linux and every other sane OS in the universe, there is no such thing as a "hidden process."
As a user process, it also cannot patch top, ps, or htop, or any other process lister. It cannot fuck with logs. It cannot do anything at all that the ordinary user cannot do. Indeed it runs under the same UID as the logged in user.
ps -uax | grep $USER
OH HEY GUYS THAT LOOKS WEIRD
killall -9 $SUSPICIOUS PROGRAM
rm $PATHTOSUSPICIOUSPROGRAM/SUSPICIOUSPROGRAM
And not even have to have a # in your prompt. No sudo, no su, no nothing.
Go on with life
Wow. That's...difficult.
--
BMO
...I can mine all the remaining bitcoins and corner the market!
Oh wait, it's just a pump-and-dump(mtgox) money laundering(silkroad) scam.
Nevermind then.
--
BMO
Then it will really be the end of the world.
Harold Camping was right in his adjustment.
--
BMO
It's not "argument from authority" that's a fallacy.
The actual fallacy is "argument from improper authority"
Do you really want to say to your doctor "you're using argument from authority to tell me I should get screened for cancer so I won't"?
Really?
The fallacy "argument from improper authority" is "I'm not a doctor but I play one on TV." Which is used time and again on Fox. Demagogues like those found on fox (Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, et alia) all depend on this for their livelihoods.
Logical fallacies, you failed the test.
--
BMO
--
BMO
This is late, but if you look at what actual economists say, upward mobility in the US is the lowest it's been in a very long time.
The upward mobility myth is what keeps the teabaggers in line supporting the GOP. Yes, you too can be a billionaire overnight if you just let us cut taxes for the richest 5 percent and de-fund education and increase taxes on the bottom 60!
It's really cynical what's going on. The part of the public that eats up Fox News is being played like a fiddle in the hands on Itzak Perlman..
--
BMO
Ignore the "not really" bit up there. I was thinking of something totally different and edited badly.
--
BMO
> I am pretty sure they make specialized calculators for surveyors, even tougher than HP equipment
Not really. There are dedicated data collectors, but look at this:
http://www.stakemill.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1618
.
Basically, it's a 50 with a bunch of software, ruggedizing, 1700 foot bluetooth, and better batteries. It's pretty sweet. The price is eye-watering for joe consumer, but not if you compare to other data collectors.
I've written my own COGO software since the 80s on various programmable calculators. It's helped with both land surveying and machining (which is why I said toolbox back there). My 48 has been through thick and thin - dropped off rocks, skidded across the shop floor, etc. If I had to replace it, I'd get the 50. My ideal calc would be the 50 with a 48 keypad.
>not replying to the overall thread about not being able to hack the TI
I know, it's just that the kid back there got my hackles up.
TI calcs are pretty much useless to me. Until TI implements RPN and RPL, I'll never buy one.
>humpin' through a swamp with a machete so you don't have to pay the surveyors to do it.
If only more people did this.
"No, I don't wanna pay for a woodcutter"
"Oh.... oh kay..." (you really want to pay for 3 people to waste their time cutting bull briars (my scars, let me show you them) instead of measuring your property? really?)
--
BMO
>totally miss point
The point, sweetie, is that if I'm gonna haul a total station and a couple of wooden tripods (aluminum ones suck for vibration), water for the day, and lunch on my back, I'm not going to increase the weight with a fucking laptop if I don't have to.
Nobody except the most insane will bring a laptop in the field if it's not required.
Come at me, bro.
--
BMO
The only troll here is you.
Where do you get off raging about how calculators and other handhelds are fucking useless and then hopping up and down about how great desktop applications are when people do real work with calculators because a laptop is completely fucking unsuitable for the environment or job?
Why do I need a fucking laptop in the shop to run a CAD program so I can calculate a dimension a client left off a drawing when I can simply take the calculator and run my COGO program? Or similarly (in my other life) save time by not having to cut down a fucking tree that's in the way?
Similarly, my cousin Sue is not going to be lugging a fucking laptop through a fucking swamp (she's a biologist) to do data collection. Not gonna fucking happen. She's going to use her HP48 and a fucking notebook and a machete (or sandvik bush axe). Because even a Panasonic Toughbook can't take a tumble down a cliff (the HP will).
No, fuck you. Take your troll thread and go the fuck home.
--
BMO
>You'd know that if you ever held a machete you arrogant ass. But I somehow don't see an image of you walking through the jungle with a machete in one hand and your HP or TI calculator in the other even semi realistic.
It's called land surveying. Get out of your basement.
--
BMO
The humor shibboleth. You failed it.
--
BMO
>all desktop applications
Yeah, try dragging a PC or even a laptop with you as you swing a machete with 40-50 pounds of gear on your back.
Or try stuffing a PC into your toolbox.
Not everyone works behind a desk.
You're an ivory tower weenie. Shut up.
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BMO