no i don't think i did miss his point, i just don't think it's key to the discussion of out running animals, which i think has very little to do with bipedalism, and everything to do with energy dissipation.
i think we can run down a kangaroo in much the same way as an antelope... both bipedal, it all come down to heat loss.
further i'd suggest if you shave the antelope (not sure if anyones got field data on this!) enabling its sweat to cool it drastically, we wouldn't be able to catch it.
i take your point about rate of heat production, jogging over running for example. But I suggest that is NOT dependant on 2 legs or 4, your wolves example, reinforces this.
why, if we are the highest evolved animal are we so useless at birth
the answer to this is because we are not the "highest evolved". The concept of highest is a fallacy carried over from victorian ideals of the supremecy of man.
Evolution doesn't have a concept of higher or lower, its criteria are "better adapted to enviroment", "worse adapted to environment", and of course environments may be subject to change at any point, thus changing who's best adapted.
the whole thing about evolutionary height gets more confused by the so called order of evolution,
the implication is that those further along the chain are some how more evolved than those below, as if fish suddenly stopped adapting once there were amphibia.
also it assumes that constant change is good, missing the point that remaining the same for a long period of time (sharks, crocodiles for example) is not "primitive" but actually indicates you have hit upon a very successful design.
If you are interested in getting a more useful model of evolution, i can highly recommend anything by Dr Stephen Jay Gould, his collections of essays are highly entertaining and excellent science.
there is also some interesting experimental data on lemurs, particuarly the sifaka who live right on the very edge of their energy requirement... (i think several studies show they don't actually eat enough to live),
they tend to do much hanging round in trees, and then sort of "skip" across to the next clump of forest.
another of my favorite modes of locomotion is the "bottom shuffling" of the gelada baboon who spends much of its feeding time sat on its arse picking at grass seeds (in fact so much time on its arse that it has a red chest to indicate it's in estrus rather than the red backside of its cousins) shuffling to a new spot much the same way a human baby does before it can walk.
One of the key aspects of any energy requirements and locomotion study, needs to be how that animal aquires its food source, as lifestyle plays a big part in the larger picture.
if the macaque spreads the knowledge of how to walk on two legs permanently by teaching its young or other apes.
yes that would be very interesting because it would favour the Lemarckian view of evolution rather than the Darwinian one.
Darwin (and subsequent theorists) suggests that evolution is dependent on inheritance of genetic mutation
Lamarck suggested that evolution occured through passing on learned or developed traits
Interestingly Lamarck was dissmissed initially because his theory provided a scientific rational for revolution.And although his model does not describe biological evolution it does describe cultural evolution perfectly, culture evolves by the passing on of learned traits, indeed that is one of the definitions of culture.
so unless you are suggesting that bipedalism is cultural rather than biological, i would suggest you have the wrong end of the stick!
you missed the point of the demonstation, (it was richard leaky by the way, son of louis and mary leaky, who did a great deal of work in africa on human origins, particuarly Australopithecus)
the fact that he was able to run down the gazelle, was not to do with how much energy the gazelle was using, rather it was to do with the differences in heat dissipation between humans and.. all other mammals.
obviously large amounts of heat are generated by the action of the muscles in running.
the only way other mammals have of dissipating this potentially fatal heat increase is to pant, losing heat through water evaporation from the tongue.
sweating is not an good heat loss solution for most mammals, as it takes very little heat from their bodies due to the dense covering of fur that is typical of mammals (except humans). Humans being largely hairless, are able to dissipate heat much more efficiently through sweating.
it is this ability to lose the heat generated by running that enables hummans to run down pretty much any other mammal, as the animal will have to stop (or else die of heat stroke) long before the human.
Contain images of child abuse, anywhere in the world.
Contain adult material that potentially breaches the Obscene Publications Act in the UK.
Contain criminally racist material in the UK.
Ok I don't know about you but those definitions are fuzzy as hell.
"images of child abuse" so photographs of child slave labour would be banned?
"adult material that potentially breaches" not even material that breaches, but material that might breach the obscene publications act, which is a very fuzzy piece of legislation in itself
this looks to me like the thin end of the wedge indeed.
hysteria and emotive responses make for poor laws, and this group gives me the willies. I want safeguards and checks before some unelected, ungoverned body starts censoring my world..
What do we want?
We want the law changed to make it illegal to murder children and bury them in woodland. We want it to be made illegal for adults to work with children. We want an end to the ridiculous process of 'criminal trials' for suspected child killers.
I wouldn't be at all suprised if it's blocked, some people have a very dim view of satire.
Seeing as the new breed of virus writers are now working for profit, organised crime, spammers, pc for hire etc. the scary part of your virus attack method, is that it has a very good motive attached to it...
Extortion... pay up or we will disclose your systems have been infected!
Think about most of the big companies that you know, and think about how many of tham would try and keep their infection as quiet as possible, and take the losses silently, rather than have their competitors, clients etc know that their data was corrupt.
Definately worth a bundle of notes to "big Dave" not to have their stock go through the floor.
of course the tin-foil crowd, will have already spotted that this would be exactly the sort of virus you would never hear about... which of course means it's already out there!
There was a psuedo virus for the amiga that did a very similar thing as your proposal. Now while lots of the code exploits were to do pretty graphic effects
(BTW where have all the characters falling off the screen exploits gone? Viruses used to be a method of showcasing crack skills, I'd like to see a return to viruses doing what hollywood promised us viruses would do.. pretty graphics I demand pretty graphics!).
As I recall the nastiest in terms of not being able to detect the thing, was the one that every 20 seconds or so (it varied each time) would randomly change letters you were typing.
It was so subtle in effect, that you assumed it was your poor typing for ages till the penny dropped.,
Nothing worse for giving you those nagging paranoid self-doubts than reading back something you could have sworn you typed well, full of typos!
although quite a few people wanted him to stick it...[edited for good tase (unlike mr harris)]... which is of course what ms goldfrapp does with the rather larger theremin... and keeps it in tune too, the love.
This looks to be the oldest electronic instrument that is still regarlly used today... of particular note is the artist Goldfrapp who plays a theremin in a MOST provocative manner during her live gigs!
87 years is quite a respectable age. I can't see a date for electric guitar anywhere on the site.
also just got to love
Dr Kent's Electronic Music Box Dr Earle Kent USA 1951
He also seems to miss the fact that the whole apple brand is about exclusivity and quality, both of which are diluted by about every idea he offers.
He also has a very limited definition of success "market share". Dominating market share brings with it a whole host of problems, look at the PR image of Microsoft compared to Apple for example.
Making Money AND knowing you create truely great and beautiful products... that's a better definition of success.
let's not forget the intitial e-mail from a yahoo.co.uk account
From: "Sarah Londom"
To:
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 9:40 PM
Subject: H.S.B.C.## STANDARD CLAIMS ENQUIRY?
Date: 05/06/2004
Greetings,
Transfer of Title Enquiry:H.S.B.C.
My name is Sarah Londom. I work as an executive partner for the firm Dupont consulting and Londom, Investment Brokers and Security Consultants U.K.
We are conducting an end of year consolidated financial statement for the year ending Mar.2004 under conjunctional agreement with H.S.B.C. This notary enquiry involves a client who shares your surname and also the circumstances surrounding investments made by this client at H.S.B.C.(Republic) A Commercial and Investment arm of the parent Bank. It was brought to our knowledge that the formentioned client died in testate and nominated no next of kin to the title over the investments made with the Bank. We came to know of you via the London. Global. Database.Center (L.G.D.C.) Hence we are making this contact. The essence of this communication with you is to request that you provide us with information on 3 KEY issues.
1. Are you aware of any relative/relation who's last contact address was Brussels, Belgium?
2. Who shares a similiar name with thee?
3. Who' date of birth on file was 27/07/1932?
not going into the obvious why is this person using a yahoo account for business. What is this womans name? Sarah Londom, Sarah L Dupont, Mrs Dupont Sarah Firth-Londom... I mean isn't one name enough for this woman? "It was brought to our knowledge that the formentioned client died in testate" do you mean aforementioned there? I think you do, and "in testate" hmm that actually means the opposite of intestate
the whole phrasing is just poor, like someone trying to sound official. I particuarly like the weird "2. Who shares a similiar name with thee?"
On the whole I find myself having very little sympathy for the sucker in this scam... these are the same stupid bastards who think sending SPAM to buy their sugar pills is a great way to make quick money... ,
the software engineer was worried that she might be sacked after she completed her project, however when she realised her work was flawed she was happy because she should already have been sacked for being rubbish, and all her subsequent employment was a lucky bonus?
As the great master said "it is all swings and roundabouts"
am i enlightened yet?...i don't have to pick up redhot mainframes with my bare forearms now do i?
Firefly is not a nerd-science sci-fi show, there is no techno babble, just really good scripting, and real characters.
Don't go into it thinking its all about space ships, technobabble and special effects, its not.
Its a set of really good stories,(think the good the bad and the ugly in space) told against a backdrop that happens to be sci-fi.
In fact I think that is the mark of good sci-fi, (at least in print, most film adaptations suffer somewhat), the story is the important thing, the science part is just a way of looking at the human conditon through a different lens, and enabling new and interesting questions to be asked.
I think it is probably the best science fiction series that has been aired on tv... which was probably why it was canned so quickly
No i've missed out on his stuff, just googled and come up with this gem..
In one word he told me secret of success in mathematics:
Plagiarize!
Plagiarize,
Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes,
So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize -
Only be sure always to call it please 'research'
A trip to amazon is in order I think, I suspect the place in my life where I might have been listening to Lehrer, was probably taken up listening to Vivian Stanshall, and the bonzo dog, do-da band... his songs and random musings are one of our best kept comic secrets. His Rawlinson End saga is sublime genius
Personally, if I wanted to give my money to god, I'd arrange to have it buried with me.
reminds me of the old joke...
a couple of solicitors are sitting round discussing strange wills that they had executed...
the first tells of his client who had always loved golf, and wanted to be buried with his golf clubs...so come the funeral the solicitor puts the clubs on top of the coffin as per his clients wishes.
The second's client loved his dog, and wanted to take it with him, so come the funeral the solicitor takes a shotgun to the dog and puts him in the coffin as per his clients wishes
That's nothing says the last solicitor, my client loved money so much that he wanted to be buried with his entire 25 milion pound fortune...
Surely you didn't do it? the others ask...
But of course, he replied...
I put a personal cheque for the full amount in the coffin....
we've already had the future of personal transport over here for years... the Sinclair C5
they went down as well as Windows ME at a Linux Conference.
we've also done brightly coloured three-wheelers too... that design classic the Reliant Robin
However just when you think all european design sucks, take a look at the sexy Carver from the netherlands.
This is the way manufacturers will get people to buy smaller more efficient vehicles, in my opinion, by making them desirable and functional. Beautiful design wins customers, look at the success of the iPod.
you evil sod, i was completely unaware of such works as
"You can't take three from two,
two is less than three,
so you look at the four in the tens place.
Now that's really four tens,
so you make it three tens,
regroup, and you change a ten to ten ones,
and you add them to the two and get twelve,
and you take away three, that's nine."
it's just wrong on so many levels, what a horrible horrible kludgey wave of teaching mathematics.
writing a song entitled "isn't it ironic?", the "ironic events" described, not in fact being ironies, thus demonstrating that you don't have a clear understanding of the meaning of the word ironic that you have chosen to define in your lyrics...
Slashdot Mirror
no i don't think i did miss his point, i just don't think it's key to the discussion of out running animals, which i think has very little to do with bipedalism, and everything to do with energy dissipation.
i think we can run down a kangaroo in much the same way as an antelope... both bipedal, it all come down to heat loss.
further i'd suggest if you shave the antelope (not sure if anyones got field data on this!) enabling its sweat to cool it drastically, we wouldn't be able to catch it.
i take your point about rate of heat production, jogging over running for example. But I suggest that is NOT dependant on 2 legs or 4, your wolves example, reinforces this.
the answer to this is because we are not the "highest evolved". The concept of highest is a fallacy carried over from victorian ideals of the supremecy of man.
Evolution doesn't have a concept of higher or lower, its criteria are "better adapted to enviroment", "worse adapted to environment", and of course environments may be subject to change at any point, thus changing who's best adapted.
the whole thing about evolutionary height gets more confused by the so called order of evolution,
Invertebrates -> Vertebrates -> Fish -> Amphibia -> Reptiles -> Mammals ->Man
the implication is that those further along the chain are some how more evolved than those below, as if fish suddenly stopped adapting once there were amphibia.
also it assumes that constant change is good, missing the point that remaining the same for a long period of time (sharks, crocodiles for example) is not "primitive" but actually indicates you have hit upon a very successful design.
If you are interested in getting a more useful model of evolution, i can highly recommend anything by Dr Stephen Jay Gould, his collections of essays are highly entertaining and excellent science.
we already have one, it's called culture.
very true, although to be honest i think you'd be best off using a car... i mean what's the point of evolving if you don't use all your advantages. :)
there is also some interesting experimental data on lemurs, particuarly the sifaka who live right on the very edge of their energy requirement... (i think several studies show they don't actually eat enough to live),
they tend to do much hanging round in trees, and then sort of "skip" across to the next clump of forest.
another of my favorite modes of locomotion is the "bottom shuffling" of the gelada baboon who spends much of its feeding time sat on its arse picking at grass seeds (in fact so much time on its arse that it has a red chest to indicate it's in estrus rather than the red backside of its cousins) shuffling to a new spot much the same way a human baby does before it can walk.
One of the key aspects of any energy requirements and locomotion study, needs to be how that animal aquires its food source, as lifestyle plays a big part in the larger picture.
yes that would be very interesting because it would favour the Lemarckian view of evolution rather than the Darwinian one.
Darwin (and subsequent theorists) suggests that evolution is dependent on inheritance of genetic mutation
Lamarck suggested that evolution occured through passing on learned or developed traits
Interestingly Lamarck was dissmissed initially because his theory provided a scientific rational for revolution.And although his model does not describe biological evolution it does describe cultural evolution perfectly, culture evolves by the passing on of learned traits, indeed that is one of the definitions of culture.
so unless you are suggesting that bipedalism is cultural rather than biological, i would suggest you have the wrong end of the stick!
you missed the point of the demonstation, (it was richard leaky by the way, son of louis and mary leaky, who did a great deal of work in africa on human origins, particuarly Australopithecus)
.. all other mammals.
the fact that he was able to run down the gazelle, was not to do with how much energy the gazelle was using, rather it was to do with the differences in heat dissipation between humans and
obviously large amounts of heat are generated by the action of the muscles in running.
the only way other mammals have of dissipating this potentially fatal heat increase is to pant, losing heat through water evaporation from the tongue.
sweating is not an good heat loss solution for most mammals, as it takes very little heat from their bodies due to the dense covering of fur that is typical of mammals (except humans). Humans being largely hairless, are able to dissipate heat much more efficiently through sweating.
it is this ability to lose the heat generated by running that enables hummans to run down pretty much any other mammal, as the animal will have to stop (or else die of heat stroke) long before the human.
"free speach,"
"Your all"
"Busch"
Is it because you like Dubya's views on education?
Ok I don't know about you but those definitions are fuzzy as hell.
"images of child abuse" so photographs of child slave labour would be banned?
"adult material that potentially breaches" not even material that breaches, but material that might breach the obscene publications act, which is a very fuzzy piece of legislation in itself
this looks to me like the thin end of the wedge indeed.
hysteria and emotive responses make for poor laws, and this group gives me the willies. I want safeguards and checks before some unelected, ungoverned body starts censoring my world..
I wouldn't be at all suprised if it's blocked, some people have a very dim view of satire.
Seeing as the new breed of virus writers are now working for profit, organised crime, spammers, pc for hire etc. the scary part of your virus attack method, is that it has a very good motive attached to it...
Extortion... pay up or we will disclose your systems have been infected!
Think about most of the big companies that you know, and think about how many of tham would try and keep their infection as quiet as possible, and take the losses silently, rather than have their competitors, clients etc know that their data was corrupt.
Definately worth a bundle of notes to "big Dave" not to have their stock go through the floor.
of course the tin-foil crowd, will have already spotted that this would be exactly the sort of virus you would never hear about... which of course means it's already out there!
There was a psuedo virus for the amiga that did a very similar thing as your proposal. Now while lots of the code exploits were to do pretty graphic effects
,
(BTW where have all the characters falling off the screen exploits gone? Viruses used to be a method of showcasing crack skills, I'd like to see a return to viruses doing what hollywood promised us viruses would do.. pretty graphics I demand pretty graphics!).
As I recall the nastiest in terms of not being able to detect the thing, was the one that every 20 seconds or so (it varied each time) would randomly change letters you were typing.
It was so subtle in effect, that you assumed it was your poor typing for ages till the penny dropped.
Nothing worse for giving you those nagging paranoid self-doubts than reading back something you could have sworn you typed well, full of typos!
yes indeed I think the grandparent was thinking of very EVIL programmers!
good...evil, such a fine line sometimes.
although quite a few people wanted him to stick it...[edited for good tase (unlike mr harris)]... which is of course what ms goldfrapp does with the rather larger theremin... and keeps it in tune too, the love.
did they indeed? but what was the music track?
I'm just amazed at how they get the vinyl singles down the phone lines like that, and for 99c too, my word isn't this interweb wonderful?
This looks to be the oldest electronic instrument that is still regarlly used today... of particular note is the artist Goldfrapp who plays a theremin in a MOST provocative manner during her live gigs!
87 years is quite a respectable age. I can't see a date for electric guitar anywhere on the site.
also just got to love
do you think he had an advertising jingle?
He also seems to miss the fact that the whole apple brand is about exclusivity and quality, both of which are diluted by about every idea he offers.
He also has a very limited definition of success "market share". Dominating market share brings with it a whole host of problems, look at the PR image of Microsoft compared to Apple for example.
Making Money AND knowing you create truely great and beautiful products... that's a better definition of success.
not going into the obvious why is this person using a yahoo account for business. What is this womans name? Sarah Londom, Sarah L Dupont, Mrs Dupont Sarah Firth-Londom... I mean isn't one name enough for this woman?
"It was brought to our knowledge that the formentioned client died in testate" do you mean aforementioned there? I think you do, and "in testate" hmm that actually means the opposite of intestate
the whole phrasing is just poor, like someone trying to sound official. I particuarly like the weird "2. Who shares a similiar name with thee?"
On the whole I find myself having very little sympathy for the sucker in this scam... these are the same stupid bastards who think sending SPAM to buy their sugar pills is a great way to make quick money... ,
oh i get it venerable master...
the software engineer was worried that she might be sacked after she completed her project, however when she realised her work was flawed she was happy because she should already have been sacked for being rubbish, and all her subsequent employment was a lucky bonus?
As the great master said "it is all swings and roundabouts"
am i enlightened yet?...i don't have to pick up redhot mainframes with my bare forearms now do i?
Firefly is not a nerd-science sci-fi show, there is no techno babble, just really good scripting, and real characters.
Don't go into it thinking its all about space ships, technobabble and special effects, its not.
Its a set of really good stories,(think the good the bad and the ugly in space) told against a backdrop that happens to be sci-fi.
In fact I think that is the mark of good sci-fi, (at least in print, most film adaptations suffer somewhat), the story is the important thing, the science part is just a way of looking at the human conditon through a different lens, and enabling new and interesting questions to be asked.
I think it is probably the best science fiction series that has been aired on tv... which was probably why it was canned so quickly
A trip to amazon is in order I think, I suspect the place in my life where I might have been listening to Lehrer, was probably taken up listening to Vivian Stanshall, and the bonzo dog, do-da band... his songs and random musings are one of our best kept comic secrets. His Rawlinson End saga is sublime genius
reminds me of the old joke...
a couple of solicitors are sitting round discussing strange wills that they had executed...
the first tells of his client who had always loved golf, and wanted to be buried with his golf clubs...so come the funeral the solicitor puts the clubs on top of the coffin as per his clients wishes.
The second's client loved his dog, and wanted to take it with him, so come the funeral the solicitor takes a shotgun to the dog and puts him in the coffin as per his clients wishes
That's nothing says the last solicitor, my client loved money so much that he wanted to be buried with his entire 25 milion pound fortune...
Surely you didn't do it? the others ask...
But of course, he replied...
I put a personal cheque for the full amount in the coffin....
we've already had the future of personal transport over here for years... the Sinclair C5
they went down as well as Windows ME at a Linux Conference.
we've also done brightly coloured three-wheelers too... that design classic the Reliant Robin
However just when you think all european design sucks, take a look at the sexy Carver from the netherlands.
This is the way manufacturers will get people to buy smaller more efficient vehicles, in my opinion, by making them desirable and functional. Beautiful design wins customers, look at the success of the iPod.
writing a song entitled "isn't it ironic?", the "ironic events" described, not in fact being ironies, thus demonstrating that you don't have a clear understanding of the meaning of the word ironic that you have chosen to define in your lyrics...
Now that IS ironic!