The word "engineer" is not regulated in most places. There is a licensure involved for very specific types of work. Otherwise there is no law preventing anyone from calling themselves an engineer. The same goes for "doctor" and "lawyer". The titles themselves are not regulated. A license is required to engage in specific activities, not to use the term.
I'll quote for you: In many countries such as Canada, South Africa and the United States, laws exist that limit the use of job titles containing the word "engineer".
I don't know how idiotic you think people are, but even humans are not that foolish
Well I've been explaining my point for a while and you dont seem to get it so you seem to be a pretty good example of what I'm saying. Thanks for proving my point.
You can explain till your face is blue. I guarantee you that you will not be able to teach that book without kids laughing, and they will lose the meaning. Same with the current wording. People will not see beyond it and try to read something into it that is not there. If you want the original intent of the book to come across it is better to change it, and then put an introductory chapter explaining the change, what the original meaning was and the reasons for the change.
Where I am calling yourself an engineer without a license can get you and the company you work for heavily fined. It is a regulated title just like doctor and lawyer.
My job doesn't require me to hold an engineering degree either but without it I'd have to change my title to something else.
Your title is what you do, not what you're educated in.
So without a medical degree I can legitimately open up a doctors office, give exams and call myself a doctor? I think not. Engineering is a regulated industry the same way doctors and lawyers are.
No. If you graduate from Law school you cannot call yourself a lawyer until you pass the bar. Same with Engineering. Engineering school does not give you the right to legitimately call yourself an engineer. You have to register and pass the qualifications of the engineering licensing body to call yourself an engineer.
Stop swearing. Learn to communicate properly and professionally.
From your quote "A Professional Engineer or Chartered Engineer or Incorporated Engineer is an engineer who is registered or licensed..." then you say they don't have to be licensed. Which is it?
It wanted to convey that the word "nigger" was commonplace. Or, at least, that is what it was successful at doing. I'd rather have someone mention that it had a different meaning rather than change the wording around. If people can't do any research, then they shouldn't claim to understand the book or the time period it was written in.
Ok let's say the character was called Gay Jim. And lets now say the book continually referred to Gay Jim and that he liked to have a fag in his mouth. Both perfectly respectable words at the time for being happy and smoking cigarettes.
However if that was in the book, and a teacher tried to teach it, no kid would be able to look through todays meanings of those words to see the true meaning of the book. The different meanings of those words in todays society simply overwhelm the point of the novel. Changing those words in a modern revision to 'happy' and 'cigarette' do not detract from the story and actually benefit the story by letting the original meaning come through. However an introductory chapter explaining the original wording and the context would be historically useful.
I hate when people bring up the 'Duuuhh what about a TRAIN Engineer??' That's clearly historical and jsut as clearly not related. It just shows you are a moron.
Software development is not organized or licensed, you are correct. However the word 'engineer' has a specific meaning and is regulated just like the word 'doctor' or 'lawyer'.
Really? How, may I ask, is censoring the word "nigger" going to make it more readable? It's plainly clear what it means to me.
It's plainly clear to you as you are adding the meaning of todays society. It had a different meaning back then. People called their pets 'nigger' simply because it had black fur. There was no other meaning intended or implied. Jims name was simply that - he was black. However now that word has so much more meaning that it is adding something to the story that was never there in the first place. This is not censorship, its changing the story back to the original meaning by removing a word that has a different meaning now than it did back then.
Finally, I think that even if I agreed in part with you that edits for clarity would help the reader, in this case we've got a remarkable example of literature bringing historical and cultural tensions forward and backward over a hundred years, which gives even more impetus to Huck's internal struggle to come to terms with Jim as a person as opposed to an object
I don't actually agree with that. In the timeframe that was written, people called their pet cats 'nigger' because they were black in color. There was no intention of any cultural tension with that name. I think Jim was named similarly. The name meant little ten but certainly means a lot now. It is adding meaning that was never intended and therefore is actually detracting from the intent of the story.
To legitimately call yourself a 'software engineer' you have to hold an engineering degree and be a licensed engineer. Calling yourself an engineer without that if fraud, plain and simple.
Normally to call yourself 'engineer' you have to have a degree and hold a license (like a doctor). You can't just know how to write code and legitimately call yourself a software engineer.
In Mark Twain's time, many children named their pet cats 'nigger' because the cat was black. I see Jim in that book named the same way. No other context implied.
No one in their right mind would call their cat 'nigger' today, neither should that character be called nigger. It's adding meaning that was never implied or intended.
In Mark Twain's time, many children named their pet cats 'nigger' because the cat was black. I see Jim in that book named the same way. No other context implied.
So just like no one in their right mind would call their cat 'nigger' today, so should that name change. It's adding meaning that was never implied or intended.
So why wasn't there the same outrage when Harry Potter and the Philosophers stone was changed to Harry Potter and the Sorcerers Stone because it was feared Americans wouldn't understand the original titles context? Same thing.
And instead what if Mark Twain called him Gay Jim and he had a fag in his mouth? Todays readers simply wouldn't understand that Jim was merely happy and smoked cigarettes.
It IS censorship.... Also, where does this end!?!? You just simply do not destroy original literature. I don't care what it is, you don't alter it's original form.
Ok, as I wrote earlier, here is Hebrews 1:1-4 in the Wyclif version of the bible from 1382:
Manifold and many manners sometime God speaking to fathers in prophets, at the last in these days spake to us in the Son, whom he ordained heir of all things, by whom he made and the worlds. The which one he is the shining of glory and figure of his substance, and bearing all things by word of his virtue, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the righthalf of Majesty in high things; so much made better than angels, by how much he hath inherited a more different, or excellent, name before them.
Wesley 1790:
1 God, who at sundry times, and in divers manners, spake of old to the fathers by the prophets, 2 hath in these last days spoken to us by his Son; whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom he also made the worlds: 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and sustaining all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 Being so much higher than the angels, as he hath by inheritance a more excellent name than they.
English Standard 2001:
1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
So was that censorship or just removing words that no longer have the same meaning to preserve the original intent of the message?
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The word "engineer" is not regulated in most places. There is a licensure involved for very specific types of work. Otherwise there is no law preventing anyone from calling themselves an engineer. The same goes for "doctor" and "lawyer". The titles themselves are not regulated. A license is required to engage in specific activities, not to use the term.
No, that's a common misperception. Go here: http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Professional_Engineer::sub::Title_Usage
I'll quote for you: In many countries such as Canada, South Africa and the United States, laws exist that limit the use of job titles containing the word "engineer".
Is that clear enough?
You can explain till your face is blue.
I don't know how idiotic you think people are, but even humans are not that foolish
Well I've been explaining my point for a while and you dont seem to get it so you seem to be a pretty good example of what I'm saying. Thanks for proving my point.
Thats a completely different meaning and you know it. Stop being obtuse, it just shows your ignorance of the subject.
Next you'll be giving examples of Dr Hook or Captain and Tennille.
You can explain till your face is blue. I guarantee you that you will not be able to teach that book without kids laughing, and they will lose the meaning. Same with the current wording. People will not see beyond it and try to read something into it that is not there. If you want the original intent of the book to come across it is better to change it, and then put an introductory chapter explaining the change, what the original meaning was and the reasons for the change.
Where I am calling yourself an engineer without a license can get you and the company you work for heavily fined. It is a regulated title just like doctor and lawyer.
My job doesn't require me to hold an engineering degree either but without it I'd have to change my title to something else.
How professional. Clearly you are not an engineer.
Your title is what you do, not what you're educated in.
So without a medical degree I can legitimately open up a doctors office, give exams and call myself a doctor? I think not. Engineering is a regulated industry the same way doctors and lawyers are.
No. If you graduate from Law school you cannot call yourself a lawyer until you pass the bar. Same with Engineering. Engineering school does not give you the right to legitimately call yourself an engineer. You have to register and pass the qualifications of the engineering licensing body to call yourself an engineer.
Stop swearing. Learn to communicate properly and professionally.
From your quote "A Professional Engineer or Chartered Engineer or Incorporated Engineer is an engineer who is registered or licensed..." then you say they don't have to be licensed. Which is it?
It wanted to convey that the word "nigger" was commonplace. Or, at least, that is what it was successful at doing. I'd rather have someone mention that it had a different meaning rather than change the wording around. If people can't do any research, then they shouldn't claim to understand the book or the time period it was written in.
Ok let's say the character was called Gay Jim. And lets now say the book continually referred to Gay Jim and that he liked to have a fag in his mouth. Both perfectly respectable words at the time for being happy and smoking cigarettes.
However if that was in the book, and a teacher tried to teach it, no kid would be able to look through todays meanings of those words to see the true meaning of the book. The different meanings of those words in todays society simply overwhelm the point of the novel. Changing those words in a modern revision to 'happy' and 'cigarette' do not detract from the story and actually benefit the story by letting the original meaning come through. However an introductory chapter explaining the original wording and the context would be historically useful.
My example is NOT a translation. It's all modern English. The text I listed is not Hebrew - can't you read?
I hate when people bring up the 'Duuuhh what about a TRAIN Engineer??' That's clearly historical and jsut as clearly not related. It just shows you are a moron.
Not in the US. Sorry, the entire world doesn't work the way your country works. No license needed.
Please read this on professional engineer licensing in the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Engineer
You're wrong. Check out professional Engineer licensing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Engineer
Software development is not organized or licensed, you are correct. However the word 'engineer' has a specific meaning and is regulated just like the word 'doctor' or 'lawyer'.
Really? How, may I ask, is censoring the word "nigger" going to make it more readable? It's plainly clear what it means to me.
It's plainly clear to you as you are adding the meaning of todays society. It had a different meaning back then. People called their pets 'nigger' simply because it had black fur. There was no other meaning intended or implied. Jims name was simply that - he was black. However now that word has so much more meaning that it is adding something to the story that was never there in the first place. This is not censorship, its changing the story back to the original meaning by removing a word that has a different meaning now than it did back then.
Finally, I think that even if I agreed in part with you that edits for clarity would help the reader, in this case we've got a remarkable example of literature bringing historical and cultural tensions forward and backward over a hundred years, which gives even more impetus to Huck's internal struggle to come to terms with Jim as a person as opposed to an object
I don't actually agree with that. In the timeframe that was written, people called their pet cats 'nigger' because they were black in color. There was no intention of any cultural tension with that name. I think Jim was named similarly. The name meant little ten but certainly means a lot now. It is adding meaning that was never intended and therefore is actually detracting from the intent of the story.
Total bullshit
To legitimately call yourself a 'software engineer' you have to hold an engineering degree and be a licensed engineer. Calling yourself an engineer without that if fraud, plain and simple.
Normally to call yourself 'engineer' you have to have a degree and hold a license (like a doctor). You can't just know how to write code and legitimately call yourself a software engineer.
In Mark Twain's time, many children named their pet cats 'nigger' because the cat was black. I see Jim in that book named the same way. No other context implied.
No one in their right mind would call their cat 'nigger' today, neither should that character be called nigger. It's adding meaning that was never implied or intended.
In Mark Twain's time, many children named their pet cats 'nigger' because the cat was black. I see Jim in that book named the same way. No other context implied.
So just like no one in their right mind would call their cat 'nigger' today, so should that name change. It's adding meaning that was never implied or intended.
and it's no longer Mark Twain's work, it's a derivative work.
So is every rewrite/update of the bible, but you still find people trying to interpret it literally.
The valid reason to have that word as part of the story is that is how the author wrote it.
See my discussion above on how the bible has been rewritten over the years. Why then was the bible changed at all?
So why wasn't there the same outrage when Harry Potter and the Philosophers stone was changed to Harry Potter and the Sorcerers Stone because it was feared Americans wouldn't understand the original titles context? Same thing.
And instead what if Mark Twain called him Gay Jim and he had a fag in his mouth? Todays readers simply wouldn't understand that Jim was merely happy and smoked cigarettes.
It IS censorship. ... Also, where does this end!?!? You just simply do not destroy original literature. I don't care what it is, you don't alter it's original form.
Ok, as I wrote earlier, here is Hebrews 1:1-4 in the Wyclif version of the bible from 1382:
Manifold and many manners sometime God speaking to fathers in prophets, at the last in these days spake to us in the Son, whom he ordained heir of all things, by whom he made and the worlds. The which one he is the shining of glory and figure of his substance, and bearing all things by word of his virtue, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the righthalf of Majesty in high things; so much made better than angels, by how much he hath inherited a more different, or excellent, name before them.
Wesley 1790:
1 God, who at sundry times, and in divers manners, spake of old to the fathers by the prophets, 2 hath in these last days spoken to us by his Son; whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom he also made the worlds: 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and sustaining all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 Being so much higher than the angels, as he hath by inheritance a more excellent name than they.
English Standard 2001:
1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
So was that censorship or just removing words that no longer have the same meaning to preserve the original intent of the message?