One plan for Mars sample return I read about involves automatic docking in low Mars orbit. One stage lands and a rover loads it up with material. An ascent stage (really just a missile) lifts off for low orbit. It docks with an orbiter which has enough juice to return to Earth.
All in all it is probably more productive to send better surface labs.
The National Geographic coverage of the news gives some air time to those doubtful that this study will prove definitive.
3.5 billion years ago is too long ago for us to ever *know* definitively. We won't get to Mars for decades and it would be decades after that before any real "hands on" research could even bring us closer to a "definitive" answer (which will still inly be a best guess).
... things like Star Trek... weren't engineered to begin with
Actually, they were. FAR more so than any previous scifi to come out of Hollywood. (And note the SciFi / SF distinction. Star Trek is much closer to SF than just about anything "studio" before Babylon 5.)
Anyone know if they have systems in place to prevent such tomfoolery?
One starbucks blocked my mac address after I transferred 30 megabytes in half an hour or so. If you tread lightly they might not worry so much. My traffic was tunneled through SSH. I don't know if they treat plain http differently.
At Genting in Malaysia internet cafe's were charging "daylight robbery" rates so I went to Starbucks and got charged similar rates for coffee but the wifi is free (I thought all starbucks stores had that). Anyway I went back the next day and just sat outside and used their wifi but they banned my mac address when I hit 30 MB download.
My eeepc is banned from about half the wifi hotspots in malaysia, or it seems that way anyway.
There is no shortage of energy if we are clever about it. We can make hydrocarbons directly from solar energy and recycled carbon, hydrogen and oxygen atoms. We can do that for the next five billion years if we want.
Fund it the way the other trillion+ dollars in spending over revenue is funded: Borrow the money from China. When China eventually asks for the money back, print a few trillion dollar bills and hand them over. Jokes on them, very few stores will be able to cash a trillion dollar bill.
It could be argued that space exploration would be good for major world businesses such as those in China because of the way it creates new IP. Consider how science fiction movies got a boost from the Apollo program. Their scenarios appealed to more people and earned more money.
...but then you gave a few examples which have nothing to do with going to the moon. The idea of stepping stones comes from our recent experience on Earth where the places we were going to already had resources we could use (air, water, food). Space isn't like that. The rules are different. If you want an analogy imagine us as the first humans leaving Africa, but going to Antarctica instead.
The moon was a logical step which we have gone beyond. There is no point going back down a 2km/s gravity well for the sake of putting soil under our feet.
Seriously, there is no place on Earth as deadly as the surface of the Moon or Mars. There is no place on Earth that costs as much as a hundredth, maybe a thousandth of the cost of just getting to the Moon, much less Mars, much less staying for any period of time.
The same could have been said of America or Australia from the perspective of Europe, before colonisation.
Going to the moon now would have been Apollo all over again, with little to gain. The moon has been done and we should leave it to commercial and new scientific activity now.
If we, as a species, want a project of comparable difficulty (compared to Apollo from the 1960 perspective) then we should send a human crew to Titan.
But the problem is how to fund it. The cold war and the US taxpayer funded Apollo. The Soviet people helped in their own unique way, by showing how not to do it. A new space program would have to be a global exercise, with contributions from many countries. If we decide to have just one war less then finding the money should not be a problem.
For a couple of decades we have been avoiding an important question: why do we want human beings to go into space? We should think hard and come up with some answers pronto.
Yeah reading this article I am plotting a project for next weekend. I have an old solar panel intended to boost a car battery when the car is not in use. I have an old six volt gel cell battery okay for float charging. I can buy a single white high intensity LED.
The problem is that when I go into the garage at night it is too dark to see where I am going. The florescent light takes too long to start but a little light which is always on will make all the difference. The idea would be to mount the solar cell on the roof and run a cable through an existing gap in the steel. Maybe I will create a circuit which cuts the LED off during the day.
You can always install a scanning or image editing tool from the repositories. The stupid thing is that the NDIS tool is not installed by default so you need to use a different type of network to download a tool to get some wireless cards to work.
Ever used those things? They suck. It's basically a single, low-power LED rigged up to a rechargeable battery. They're generally designed to illuminate a walkway at night (VERY little light output - just enough to see by), and all the ones I've used are barely able to do that.
They do what they are intended for. Double the solar panel area, increase the light output, switch the lights so you can use them for a couple of hours at a time. Now you have a product which may be the difference between an African kid being able to study at night, or not. More light would be good but some is better than nothing at all.
In fact I am pretty sure I have seen lanterns exactly like this in the shops. Solar panel on top. Batteries and LED lights. You hang it in the sun during the day.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah I know there were lots I missed. The Man Who Fell to Earth for example. Clockwork Orange is SF.
Was he listed under "A" or "G"? Were the other candidates listed around "Z", "Q" and "U"?
One plan for Mars sample return I read about involves automatic docking in low Mars orbit. One stage lands and a rover loads it up with material. An ascent stage (really just a missile) lifts off for low orbit. It docks with an orbiter which has enough juice to return to Earth.
All in all it is probably more productive to send better surface labs.
The National Geographic coverage of the news gives some air time to those doubtful that this study will prove definitive.
3.5 billion years ago is too long ago for us to ever *know* definitively. We won't get to Mars for decades and it would be decades after that before any real "hands on" research could even bring us closer to a "definitive" answer (which will still inly be a best guess).
Are you a geologist?
Actually, they were. FAR more so than any previous scifi to come out of Hollywood. (And note the SciFi / SF distinction. Star Trek is much closer to SF than just about anything "studio" before Babylon 5.)
2001
Silent Running
Logans run
THX1138
Anyone know if they have systems in place to prevent such tomfoolery?
One starbucks blocked my mac address after I transferred 30 megabytes in half an hour or so. If you tread lightly they might not worry so much. My traffic was tunneled through SSH. I don't know if they treat plain http differently.
At Genting in Malaysia internet cafe's were charging "daylight robbery" rates so I went to Starbucks and got charged similar rates for coffee but the wifi is free (I thought all starbucks stores had that). Anyway I went back the next day and just sat outside and used their wifi but they banned my mac address when I hit 30 MB download.
My eeepc is banned from about half the wifi hotspots in malaysia, or it seems that way anyway.
So the answer to your question is: So we don't die!
You and I will probably die, and in the scheme of things quite soon, but I agree with your point as applied to descendants.
There is no shortage of energy if we are clever about it. We can make hydrocarbons directly from solar energy and recycled carbon, hydrogen and oxygen atoms. We can do that for the next five billion years if we want.
But the problem is how to fund it.
Fund it the way the other trillion+ dollars in spending over revenue is funded: Borrow the money from China. When China eventually asks for the money back, print a few trillion dollar bills and hand them over. Jokes on them, very few stores will be able to cash a trillion dollar bill.
It could be argued that space exploration would be good for major world businesses such as those in China because of the way it creates new IP. Consider how science fiction movies got a boost from the Apollo program. Their scenarios appealed to more people and earned more money.
I don't think the case for visiting the moon (and Mars) is compelling enough for the current economic climate.
There will never be a good economic climate to fund space exploration.
Humans aren't fit for space
Humans aren't fit to fly from Australia to Europe in 20 hours at mach 0.8 but somehow we manage to make it routine and safe.
(the satay sticks with peanut sauce in MAS business class are absolutely FTW).
And the whole Falcon 9 development program came for less than the cost of JUST the Ares I Mobile Service Tower [spaceref.com].
This makes me think that NASA might not be the right organisation to build deep space vehicles.
...but then you gave a few examples which have nothing to do with going to the moon. The idea of stepping stones comes from our recent experience on Earth where the places we were going to already had resources we could use (air, water, food). Space isn't like that. The rules are different. If you want an analogy imagine us as the first humans leaving Africa, but going to Antarctica instead.
The moon was a logical step which we have gone beyond. There is no point going back down a 2km/s gravity well for the sake of putting soil under our feet.
There's debate over whether we got a man on the moon
Buzz Aldrin ended that debate. Does he have to end it again? Can I have your WGS84 coordinates please?
So what do the initials IIS stand for?
Seriously, there is no place on Earth as deadly as the surface of the Moon or Mars. There is no place on Earth that costs as much as a hundredth, maybe a thousandth of the cost of just getting to the Moon, much less Mars, much less staying for any period of time.
The same could have been said of America or Australia from the perspective of Europe, before colonisation.
Unless we can set up a colony there, it just isn't worth it.
The moon, you see, is a harsh mistress.
But what if they start throwing rocks?
The problem is, with whatever-will-replace-the-Shuttle system scrapped... we've got nothing capable of docking at IIS left.
I don't think IIS is involved. Its the International Space Station.
Going to the moon now would have been Apollo all over again, with little to gain. The moon has been done and we should leave it to commercial and new scientific activity now.
If we, as a species, want a project of comparable difficulty (compared to Apollo from the 1960 perspective) then we should send a human crew to Titan.
But the problem is how to fund it. The cold war and the US taxpayer funded Apollo. The Soviet people helped in their own unique way, by showing how not to do it. A new space program would have to be a global exercise, with contributions from many countries. If we decide to have just one war less then finding the money should not be a problem.
For a couple of decades we have been avoiding an important question: why do we want human beings to go into space? We should think hard and come up with some answers pronto.
Yeah reading this article I am plotting a project for next weekend. I have an old solar panel intended to boost a car battery when the car is not in use. I have an old six volt gel cell battery okay for float charging. I can buy a single white high intensity LED.
The problem is that when I go into the garage at night it is too dark to see where I am going. The florescent light takes too long to start but a little light which is always on will make all the difference. The idea would be to mount the solar cell on the roof and run a cable through an existing gap in the steel. Maybe I will create a circuit which cuts the LED off during the day.
You can always install a scanning or image editing tool from the repositories. The stupid thing is that the NDIS tool is not installed by default so you need to use a different type of network to download a tool to get some wireless cards to work.
Yeah yeah, on Kubuntu, it is called K-Spot.
By extension then, in Gnome, shouldn't it be called the G-spot???
I don't believe it exists.
Ever used those things? They suck. It's basically a single, low-power LED rigged up to a rechargeable battery. They're generally designed to illuminate a walkway at night (VERY little light output - just enough to see by), and all the ones I've used are barely able to do that.
They do what they are intended for. Double the solar panel area, increase the light output, switch the lights so you can use them for a couple of hours at a time. Now you have a product which may be the difference between an African kid being able to study at night, or not. More light would be good but some is better than nothing at all.
In fact I am pretty sure I have seen lanterns exactly like this in the shops. Solar panel on top. Batteries and LED lights. You hang it in the sun during the day.