Ahh thank you. I don't know that much with regards to networking, but I would imagine well before this standards issue haven't there been many forms of this already implemented, say as routing ethernet connections to switches? I mean only one true "Sender" is on each ethernet line, right?
FTA: "But in its current state, Ethernet is not optimized to provide the service required for storage and high-performance computing traffic -- speed alone won't cut it, vendors say. Ethernet, which drops packets when traffic congestion occurs, needs to evolve into a low latency, "lossless" transport technology with congestion management and flow control features, CEE and DCE backers say."
If I understand right, they're trying to change Ethernet because of TCP/IP? Isn't that kinda, backwards as a concept?
If we didn't have to deal with their retarded versions of X file formats and the incompatibilities brought around with that, I don't think anyone would have complained about office, ribbon especially.
However, if we didn't have to deal with those, it'd actually be compatible too. Whoops!
When you don't shove prices in people's faces, it tends to reflect better on you as the one who made the program and your business as well. Hell, people might even do that magic thing called donate to be an incentive for you to do more with your program!
Just because america has accepted a "this is our price and we're holding to it with our teeth" doesn't mean it's accurate for the rest of the world, where retail prices are not set in stone by a longshot.
It's an american fallacy that people think they can stick someone with prices. Really it's only been in place since the FDIC came into play. After having traveled to europe, the middle east, and south america, I can confirm that it is only a US thing. Also, the consumers are more educated and you dont' find them treated like shit.
Nobody said I don't have a clue. I do openGL programming myself.
It helps to not assume people are ignorant. I just answer with simple basics in hopes that people don't assume I'm ignorant.
With that said, pc vs console is like this (car analogy time):
PC: stickshift honda civic. Console: mass transportation bus.
The car you can tune as you want, but you pay for it, you have the most control, and the only thing that remains constant is the road (aka OpenGL).
Bus you know exactly where it goes, and it's cheaper, but you can only go where it goes. Sure, there are lots of busses and it sounds practical, but not everyone is in a realistic situation where mass transportation is not an option due to distance from work.
Basically, tuning a car (in terms of modification capability) vs travel choices with a bus.
Also, things such as specular lighting are not tough if that's your expertise. If it's not, and it's a pain in the ass to you, then GET ANOTHER PROGRAMMER TO DO IT. Jeez. Find specialties and go with it.
Also, see zironics comment. World of warcraft looked like a 3 year old game from the outset; it sure hasn't stopped any sales has it?
Actually, what this means is things like volumetric shadows, AA, particle effects, these things are in the minimum specs. However, a console cannot handle those.
How many consoles have you seen that can do all of the above? None.
Consoles exist for one specific reason: it's an extremely locked down form of DRM that's much more of a physical pain in the ass to jailbreak. The closest anyone has come to allowing you to use your console has been the hacking on the xbox and allowing yellow dog on the PS3.
Otherwise, we'd all game but maybe with a controller, on the PC. Which is what about 90% of people out there do if they have the option of more games and more functionality for the same price as a ps3.
If you had no free riders, you'd have no publicity. Your game would be unknown to the world. People just don't get that. Politics wouldn't work if it wasn't for "free riders". If you had absolutely no clue what (XYZ physical object) was, how would you make any form of decision. The real "free" product is being make conscious of the game, which may or may not result in it being a sale.
Also, the minute you sell the game to ANYONE, it can be given to ANYONE else. It's called right of first sale. Sucks to be a publisher? I'd say no, considering the cost of software distribution. Also, people can make illegal copies whether you like it or not. That's not called piracy, it's called sharing.
As said below, plenty of people have refuted your idea here. Selling a game for 50$ at start and 10$ later means you really were willing to sell it for 10$. There will be freeloaders but there will be people who want to donate to support you if they choose their price. Also your mistake.
What if someone rich goes "hey, this is awesome. I'm going to give this guy a grand as a donation" but whoops! We can't donate to you. Best we can do is buy it for 50$ (which you get something less than that).
Man, people really don't get how to create incentive donations. Being a prick really doesn't work for that.
I play warhammer myself, and played wow for a year in a half. Warhammer more because it can be casual, and wow to try out the hardcore (I was in the #1 guild in dark iron which was #6 in the US). In irony, I had actually hooked up with a cute girl when I was playing wow, a penny arcade girl, as well, although I had to fly to another state to see her.
Please, don't make BS assumptions. I don't lie about what I say, least you could do is be a little less ad hominem, eh?
On the flip side, why are you magically entitled to anyone's money just because you spent effort on anything (let alone programming a game)? Trade for something, sure. Reality of the currency barter is that setting a specific price is not respective of people's perception of value. What you think is worth 500$ and maybe is to one or two people, might be worth 0$ to the rest of the world. This is why letting people pick their own prices works. However, the simple answer is that you're not entitled to other people's money.
I'd hardly call free but a fee to play online a creative business model. We usually call that a scam.
The difference is that Guild Wars gives people something, and there is never a fee you'll ever have to pay again to play the same thing, even if you lose the CD's. That is not the case with Wow, or Warhammer or any other mmo. The difference is those games (wow,warhammer, any pay or subscription mmo) are subsidizing their users to pay for the privilege to play an inevitable grind at the cost of the company's bandwidth. It's comparable to taxing people for air usage.
A real creative business model would be something you can embrace that doesn't have infinite fuckups (drm, subscription fees), and uses common sense. Such as, I don't know, paying for a game and not having subscription fees, drm, or cd keys or any forced "linkage" of any sort? Go back to requiring a cd in virtual CD or physical form, and we'll all be happy. Will it sell more copies in reality? You bet you it will. Is it cheaper to not have to pay a company to DRM your software (or engineers to do it)? Absolutely.
Agreed. It is a pain in the ass all the time with people during a transition of any kind.
I was miffed for about 8 seconds with the new version. Mostly because I hit F5 and refreshed to see the change with no notice...so it was a "WTF? oh, this is nice", and move on.
However, it would be nice if to ease the transition or for those stubborn folk they gave you an option to turn it on/off. I'd like it on for some tabs and off for others even.
I call bullshit right there. You can't even reasonably host 700 concurrent telnet connections on a machine like that, if they're even being used moderately. change that to HTTP or FTP and I'll guarantee it with my own cash.
Or, are you saying that the host thin client machines are 3ghz? In which case it is no longer a thin client.
Especially so with the video editing and raytracing. You can barely even host a single machine to handle that, and you are claiming 700? Yeah, sure. I'd like to see you even handle 2 machines doing simultaneous raytracing. Or even 4 remotely doing word processing.
Extend the lifespan how? When software gets more demanding, how can you suddenly keep using it on the same number of concurrent users? What is this, magicland? At some point the processor load has to be offloaded.
Yes, new software installs become single system. I get that. That is indeed a benefit. However, that can already been done with software such as Radia....only cost being temporary bandwidth. Radia's been around for quite a while and is certainly not the first or only windows-based application push (aptitude style).
Umm no. Completely incorrect. Your brake lines have nothing to do with the longevity of braking itself. The only reason you can't brake forever is you would warp your rotors, whittle down your brake pads very quickly, or overheat your brake pads to the point that they are mush and not metal (thats why they're made with asbestos - its the cheapest and best flame retardant for brakes, go look it up - it's used less today, but it is still commonly found) and obviously have reduced stopping power. If you "only had so much air stored for braking", then you wouldn't be able to sit with your foot on the brake, say, indefinitely. That however, is completely inaccurate.
There is plenty of air in a diesel engine, the only reason that people install them in big vehicles is because they aren't built in. You can still do it without, just to a normal degree and not to an extreme. Semis have it because 20 tons rolling down a hill is going to increase velocity very quickly without manually installed engine retarders.
Uberjoe's comment is dead on, and in addition the browser is just not very cleanly programmed yet. I would be happy to switch to it when it has good functionality. It's not there so far, but it will be.
Okay, upgrading a mainframe vs upgrading pcs. Really moot in some ways. As software matures, performance requirements in some scenarios tend to increase. So your server costs go up exponentially. At some point, you'd end up clustering servers, which is undoubtedly not cheaper than just getting el cheapo desktops or laptops. Not to mention extremely unfriendly if you have to bring in new software or have large documents which need to be saved temporarily (like 4-8gigs to be sent out in the same day). To thin client 10+ clients on a single server that is highly active and used is not cheap.
Meanwhile as many people have pointed out, when your network goes down in the large scenarios that people try to sell with this stuff, you're screwed.
I happen to work at a place with the scenario I mention above, and new software is introduced constantly. It would not be reasonable to thin client it, unless they want to piss off everyone who works here. 750+ people and probably 100+ servers, at a minimum, and they stay far from thin clients.
Electricity is hardly a selling point if you're losing productivity and still spending the money on servers, to boot.
Well of course, I was referring to the former and not the latter. What's your point? You implied the latter. I mean this may be the internet but not everyone is a jagoff. I try not to be, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt for you to do the same./snickers slightly, not trying to insult
Heh, I read back on this now. Sometimes slashdot has so many replies I don't even get a chance to look back.
I don't want to endorse people killing eachother, but in all honesty it is easier to survive hitting another car (or preferably missing them altogether) than it is if you hit concrete. One is guaranteed, the other, not so much.
Not to go too offtopic, but: Truth be told, self centered arrogance is an unfortunate reality of planet earth. We all try to be our best and do our best, but ethics doesn't necessarily tie in with arrogance or being selfcentered. I can assure you a tiger for example doesn't think "well, I really like him, so maybe I won't eat him". People are no different. Try living outside the US and the concept of being self centered will be a true eye opener to you, quickly. Only in the US are people oblivious enough to just help someone out without critically thinking first "can I trust them?" It is for this reason people are scammed out of money, time, effort, house and home, etc. The unfortunate reality is everyone should be guarded, careful, and not put their neck out for others because in meaning well, that doesn't mean such an intention is communicated across. Folks are called sheeple for a reason sometimes.
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Ahh thank you. I don't know that much with regards to networking, but I would imagine well before this standards issue haven't there been many forms of this already implemented, say as routing ethernet connections to switches? I mean only one true "Sender" is on each ethernet line, right?
FTA: "But in its current state, Ethernet is not optimized to provide the service required for storage and high-performance computing traffic -- speed alone won't cut it, vendors say. Ethernet, which drops packets when traffic congestion occurs, needs to evolve into a low latency, "lossless" transport technology with congestion management and flow control features, CEE and DCE backers say."
If I understand right, they're trying to change Ethernet because of TCP/IP? Isn't that kinda, backwards as a concept?
If we didn't have to deal with their retarded versions of X file formats and the incompatibilities brought around with that, I don't think anyone would have complained about office, ribbon especially.
However, if we didn't have to deal with those, it'd actually be compatible too. Whoops!
Nah, average looking but mentally unstable at the time. Not 14 though, nobody likes jailbait lol.
go read other comments to my post.
When you don't shove prices in people's faces, it tends to reflect better on you as the one who made the program and your business as well. Hell, people might even do that magic thing called donate to be an incentive for you to do more with your program!
Just because america has accepted a "this is our price and we're holding to it with our teeth" doesn't mean it's accurate for the rest of the world, where retail prices are not set in stone by a longshot.
It's an american fallacy that people think they can stick someone with prices. Really it's only been in place since the FDIC came into play. After having traveled to europe, the middle east, and south america, I can confirm that it is only a US thing. Also, the consumers are more educated and you dont' find them treated like shit.
Nobody said I don't have a clue. I do openGL programming myself.
It helps to not assume people are ignorant. I just answer with simple basics in hopes that people don't assume I'm ignorant.
With that said, pc vs console is like this (car analogy time):
PC: stickshift honda civic.
Console: mass transportation bus.
The car you can tune as you want, but you pay for it, you have the most control, and the only thing that remains constant is the road (aka OpenGL).
Bus you know exactly where it goes, and it's cheaper, but you can only go where it goes. Sure, there are lots of busses and it sounds practical, but not everyone is in a realistic situation where mass transportation is not an option due to distance from work.
Basically, tuning a car (in terms of modification capability) vs travel choices with a bus.
Also, things such as specular lighting are not tough if that's your expertise. If it's not, and it's a pain in the ass to you, then GET ANOTHER PROGRAMMER TO DO IT. Jeez. Find specialties and go with it.
Also, see zironics comment. World of warcraft looked like a 3 year old game from the outset; it sure hasn't stopped any sales has it?
Actually, what this means is things like volumetric shadows, AA, particle effects, these things are in the minimum specs. However, a console cannot handle those.
How many consoles have you seen that can do all of the above? None.
Consoles exist for one specific reason: it's an extremely locked down form of DRM that's much more of a physical pain in the ass to jailbreak. The closest anyone has come to allowing you to use your console has been the hacking on the xbox and allowing yellow dog on the PS3.
Otherwise, we'd all game but maybe with a controller, on the PC. Which is what about 90% of people out there do if they have the option of more games and more functionality for the same price as a ps3.
If you had no free riders, you'd have no publicity. Your game would be unknown to the world. People just don't get that. Politics wouldn't work if it wasn't for "free riders". If you had absolutely no clue what (XYZ physical object) was, how would you make any form of decision. The real "free" product is being make conscious of the game, which may or may not result in it being a sale.
Also, the minute you sell the game to ANYONE, it can be given to ANYONE else. It's called right of first sale. Sucks to be a publisher? I'd say no, considering the cost of software distribution. Also, people can make illegal copies whether you like it or not. That's not called piracy, it's called sharing.
As said below, plenty of people have refuted your idea here. Selling a game for 50$ at start and 10$ later means you really were willing to sell it for 10$. There will be freeloaders but there will be people who want to donate to support you if they choose their price. Also your mistake.
What if someone rich goes "hey, this is awesome. I'm going to give this guy a grand as a donation" but whoops! We can't donate to you. Best we can do is buy it for 50$ (which you get something less than that).
Man, people really don't get how to create incentive donations. Being a prick really doesn't work for that.
What are you talking about?
I play warhammer myself, and played wow for a year in a half. Warhammer more because it can be casual, and wow to try out the hardcore (I was in the #1 guild in dark iron which was #6 in the US). In irony, I had actually hooked up with a cute girl when I was playing wow, a penny arcade girl, as well, although I had to fly to another state to see her.
Please, don't make BS assumptions. I don't lie about what I say, least you could do is be a little less ad hominem, eh?
Or there's that "minimum specs" idea, or using common sense to program for the lowest common denominator in a similar fashion to a console, no?
Isn't that how blizzard, warhammer, all sorts of games do well? By programming for the lowest common denominator as a console does?
Sounds like sales has their hands steering way too much of the developer pot, in general.
On the flip side, why are you magically entitled to anyone's money just because you spent effort on anything (let alone programming a game)? Trade for something, sure. Reality of the currency barter is that setting a specific price is not respective of people's perception of value. What you think is worth 500$ and maybe is to one or two people, might be worth 0$ to the rest of the world. This is why letting people pick their own prices works. However, the simple answer is that you're not entitled to other people's money.
I'd hardly call free but a fee to play online a creative business model. We usually call that a scam.
The difference is that Guild Wars gives people something, and there is never a fee you'll ever have to pay again to play the same thing, even if you lose the CD's. That is not the case with Wow, or Warhammer or any other mmo. The difference is those games (wow,warhammer, any pay or subscription mmo) are subsidizing their users to pay for the privilege to play an inevitable grind at the cost of the company's bandwidth. It's comparable to taxing people for air usage.
A real creative business model would be something you can embrace that doesn't have infinite fuckups (drm, subscription fees), and uses common sense. Such as, I don't know, paying for a game and not having subscription fees, drm, or cd keys or any forced "linkage" of any sort? Go back to requiring a cd in virtual CD or physical form, and we'll all be happy. Will it sell more copies in reality? You bet you it will. Is it cheaper to not have to pay a company to DRM your software (or engineers to do it)? Absolutely.
Were you trying to be modded +funny?
Especially the "tremendous sales and popularity of vista" part.
Meanwhile, any developer with a shred of common sense knows silverlight is like asking to create more viruses for windows.
Silverlight wouldn't even get a glance from lazy developers if it wasn't for that flash is a horrible piece of crap as well.
Agreed. It is a pain in the ass all the time with people during a transition of any kind.
I was miffed for about 8 seconds with the new version. Mostly because I hit F5 and refreshed to see the change with no notice...so it was a "WTF? oh, this is nice", and move on.
However, it would be nice if to ease the transition or for those stubborn folk they gave you an option to turn it on/off. I'd like it on for some tabs and off for others even.
It's for this reason I am surprised it hasn't happened already, in honesty.
municipal bonds?
Can these be done on a nationwide level?
Or would someone have to create a new company and/or would there be another way around it?
clearly that will do plenty. Meanwhile, maybe someone can register bush's private email addresses as sex offenders? Multiple times even?
I call bullshit right there. You can't even reasonably host 700 concurrent telnet connections on a machine like that, if they're even being used moderately. change that to HTTP or FTP and I'll guarantee it with my own cash.
Or, are you saying that the host thin client machines are 3ghz? In which case it is no longer a thin client.
Especially so with the video editing and raytracing. You can barely even host a single machine to handle that, and you are claiming 700? Yeah, sure. I'd like to see you even handle 2 machines doing simultaneous raytracing. Or even 4 remotely doing word processing.
Extend the lifespan how? When software gets more demanding, how can you suddenly keep using it on the same number of concurrent users? What is this, magicland? At some point the processor load has to be offloaded.
Yes, new software installs become single system. I get that. That is indeed a benefit. However, that can already been done with software such as Radia....only cost being temporary bandwidth. Radia's been around for quite a while and is certainly not the first or only windows-based application push (aptitude style).
At the about-to-explode rate of inflation and the ever increasing costs of ipods for "quality", you're going to need more than a few years :D
Umm no. Completely incorrect. Your brake lines have nothing to do with the longevity of braking itself. The only reason you can't brake forever is you would warp your rotors, whittle down your brake pads very quickly, or overheat your brake pads to the point that they are mush and not metal (thats why they're made with asbestos - its the cheapest and best flame retardant for brakes, go look it up - it's used less today, but it is still commonly found) and obviously have reduced stopping power. If you "only had so much air stored for braking", then you wouldn't be able to sit with your foot on the brake, say, indefinitely. That however, is completely inaccurate.
There is plenty of air in a diesel engine, the only reason that people install them in big vehicles is because they aren't built in. You can still do it without, just to a normal degree and not to an extreme. Semis have it because 20 tons rolling down a hill is going to increase velocity very quickly without manually installed engine retarders.
Uberjoe's comment is dead on, and in addition the browser is just not very cleanly programmed yet. I would be happy to switch to it when it has good functionality. It's not there so far, but it will be.
Is that when they have the annual chair throwing competition?
Okay, upgrading a mainframe vs upgrading pcs. Really moot in some ways. As software matures, performance requirements in some scenarios tend to increase. So your server costs go up exponentially. At some point, you'd end up clustering servers, which is undoubtedly not cheaper than just getting el cheapo desktops or laptops. Not to mention extremely unfriendly if you have to bring in new software or have large documents which need to be saved temporarily (like 4-8gigs to be sent out in the same day). To thin client 10+ clients on a single server that is highly active and used is not cheap.
Meanwhile as many people have pointed out, when your network goes down in the large scenarios that people try to sell with this stuff, you're screwed.
I happen to work at a place with the scenario I mention above, and new software is introduced constantly. It would not be reasonable to thin client it, unless they want to piss off everyone who works here. 750+ people and probably 100+ servers, at a minimum, and they stay far from thin clients.
Electricity is hardly a selling point if you're losing productivity and still spending the money on servers, to boot.
Well of course, I was referring to the former and not the latter. What's your point? You implied the latter. I mean this may be the internet but not everyone is a jagoff. I try not to be, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt for you to do the same. /snickers slightly, not trying to insult
Heh, I read back on this now. Sometimes slashdot has so many replies I don't even get a chance to look back.
I don't want to endorse people killing eachother, but in all honesty it is easier to survive hitting another car (or preferably missing them altogether) than it is if you hit concrete. One is guaranteed, the other, not so much.
Not to go too offtopic, but:
Truth be told, self centered arrogance is an unfortunate reality of planet earth. We all try to be our best and do our best, but ethics doesn't necessarily tie in with arrogance or being selfcentered. I can assure you a tiger for example doesn't think "well, I really like him, so maybe I won't eat him". People are no different. Try living outside the US and the concept of being self centered will be a true eye opener to you, quickly. Only in the US are people oblivious enough to just help someone out without critically thinking first "can I trust them?" It is for this reason people are scammed out of money, time, effort, house and home, etc. The unfortunate reality is everyone should be guarded, careful, and not put their neck out for others because in meaning well, that doesn't mean such an intention is communicated across. Folks are called sheeple for a reason sometimes.