In many parts of the world, the majority of people don't need to use tax software or "do their taxes". For example, here in the UK many basic taxes are deducted at source and then reported and paid by the employer/merchant/bank, so many people never have to file a return at all. Those who do typically use an on-line system provided by the tax authority or work with a professional accountant who can then file on their behalf. None of these people needs to run the kind of tax software you mentioned on their own computer.
In the US, you are not required to file taxes period unless you owe money. The government is more than happy to keep any extra that may have been submitted via employers/etc on your behalf. Also, you can typically pick up the forms at a local post office.
So no, there is no requirement to use a computer to do your taxes in the US. It's just that there is a very large majority that is a lot larger than the U.S gaming market that do use software or on-line services to do their taxes. I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar elsewhere too.
Now it doesn't help that Intuit and others mail out copies of their software anticipating people will use it; it comes with some free access (typically Federal taxes) and then some paid access (typically States support). Nor does it help that the software is basically free even if you do pay for it as you can add the cost of paying someone to your taxes as a deduction.
Also, your stereotypes about gamers are way out of date. For example, the ESA's 2014 report suggests that interest in entertainment software is roughly equal between the sexes.
That doesn't change the reality that those using software to do their taxes are still a larger group than those playing games on their computers. However, you'll probably also need to look at the difference in there between (a) computer vs console games, and (b) whether there is a significant difference in the genders for those who will build specialized systems for their computer gaming. My guess is that the results of both will show a skew in computer gaming towards the males.
So it is very likely they wrote the works themselves as they would have been sufficiently educated to do so. These aspects are typically not in question.
That doesn't seem consistent with Marcan priority, which is pretty widely accepted. For Luke to have written his own gospel he'd have to be in his eighties at least when he wrote it, if he were using Mark as a source.
I'm not an expert on this, I'm just repeating what I remember from a course I took.
Possible for the Gospel of Luke; however, Luke also wrote several others which were more contemporary and in conjunction with Paul's writing - or rather, letters to the various Churches and people he visited. Peter was also known to have written several later in life.
The registry. Windows 3.x had a registry! It was not new in Windows 95.
Well, there was a not very widely distributed version of Windows 3.x that had a registry, I've only heard it by the name "Win32s" and know it had a pre-Win95 early version of the Win32 API found in Win95; but it (the registry) was not by any means guaranteed to be available until Win95.
For businesses, sure. For private individuals, gaming is one of the main blockers for migration to other systems today, and it seems reasonable to assume that this one affects many, many more people than tax software. After all, which of (a) the PC gaming industry and (b) the PC personal taxation software industry makes so much money that even Hollywood is jealous?
Well, gaming might be for males between 5 and 45; but far more people use tax software (TurboTax, TaxAct) to do their taxes twice a year than use a computer for gaming, and that doesn't include businesses.
That's why the gospels were written in Greek? Wait, what's the reason you give? Lack of evidence for Jesus' existence is why the gospels were written in greek? How does that work?
Greek was the "international" language, pervasive throughout the Roman empire at the time. Any information you'd want to spread would almost certainly be written in Greek. It held more or less the position that English does today. Jesus and his followers spoke Aramaic, they were also poor and it's virtually certain that they were illiterate.
While I mostly agree...if you follow the gospels, then at the very least Jesus was not illiterate as he read from Temple scrolls in public.
The gospel "according to Luke" is not a gospel written by Luke, it's a gospel attributed to Luke and written by someone else. Someone who wanted the information disseminated, and so wrote it in Greek.
Paul (also known as Saul) and Luke were both educated individuals. Saul being from a wealthy background and highly studied and respect Pharisee. Luke was a doctor of the day. So it is very likely they wrote the works themselves as they would have been sufficiently educated to do so. These aspects are typically not in question.
As to the rest of the Apostles, yes they were considered to generally be without much education.
SAS should be killed with fire. It is the most frustrating piece of garbage I have ever used. SAS is a garbage language, made by garbage people. And when I say that I don't mean to denigrate sanitation workers, for whom I have the utmost respect. I mean the employees of the SAS corporation are humanoids, perhaps sentient, literally made of garbage.
I won't necessarily disagree there. I only used it for a couple months back in 2002 and at that because it was something we already had. It was decent; but it certainly had its limitations. The folks on the mailing lists weren't too happy about my embedding 6 or 7 layers of macros...but it worked; the main issue was being able to debug those layers if you needed to.
I wept tears of nerd joy when I convinced my workplace to drop SAS and adopt R.
OS X is not the MacOS of 1987, that would have been Mac OS 4 and Mac OS 5, both having releases in 1987 and were very different from the Mac OS you know as OS X today. OS X was a wholesale replacement for MacOS which brought in UNIX via NeXTStep OS and its lineage from FreeBSD after Apple both Steve Job's NeXT Inc.
R is also only one of several even more obscure languages in that domain, including Julia and Stan... is MAPLE still a thing? Less obscure is MATLAB, and Mathematica... (all platforms as well as languages) they've all got their special strengths as usual.
Don't for SAS Macro Scripting (http://support.sas.com/documentation/onlinedoc/code.samples.html). Extremely influential in numerous science fields and among non-programmers.
There's also VHDL (popular for Engineers, again, typically non-programmers), and whether you like it or not even in the Windows world DOS-Batch is still very much alive though slowly getting converted to PowerShell (derivative of C#).
The thing with capping data is that if you say 5GB, it will be very hard for them to increase that if the market changes. At least not for the same price.
Except they already do that. When I signed up for my plan it was originally 300MB, then got upgraded to 1GB and later 3 GB without any changes - the 300MB/1GB/3GB numbers are for the LTE data; lower speed non-LTE data is completely unlimited, but they do change the cap in my favor (upwards) on occasion.
But by then we'll have the F48 project which will be 15 years behind schedule and 2 trillion dollars over budget, which is way more than the paltry 3-4 years behind schedule and 200 billion over budget that they managed with the F35.
Well, that's always been the problem with JSF and similar programs, like the Space Shuttle, where you try to make one thing be the end-all-be-all of everything you do. Too many hands in the pot trying to make the pot everything from a Bunsen burner to a nuclear powered water boiler.
Why compare the F-35, a fighter with the A-10 a ground assault craft, wouldn't it make more sense to compare a ground assault craft to its replacement ground assault craft?
B/c they're trying to use the F-35 as a replacement for the A-10, something it's not really designed to do. It would make better sense to have a new plane designed for it but they've already sunk so much into the F-35 JSF program that they're trying to justify it.
A jdam is a complete package of dumb bomb, sensors and guidance package. Think of it as the short range JSOW (all of the above + large fins that let it glide long range to target. Source - I'm a former EOD tech.
So we should report you? Or can you cite non-classified materials?
Biggest pitfalls of the newly rich are not knowing what to do with it, so much so that they get into things they shouldn't and end up bankrupt, overdosed, etc. Simply put, everything said above is extremely good advice.
***(By the by, the only two things that can be built with a rPi are (1) a MAME cabinet, and (2) a home file server. Any other claims are merely gratuitous falsifications)
I'd have to disagree. My rPi wouldn't do too well as a file server; however, I have handed it just about everything else my prior server was doing to run my network; with the exception the firewall and routing - which I handed over to a Microtek RouterBoard 450G. The file server stuff I'm handing over to a Wandboard Quad - why? Because it has a SATA chipset and ports on it and can directly support a 2.5" SATA drive, the latest models even have the capability to directly power the drive if you can make the cable (rev3+). (And no, I don't consider using a USB interface for a file server sufficient.)
The rPi is a nice system; and I'm planning more uses; but a MAME cabinet or file server is not one of them. The rPi2 is does even better.
It's pretty clear that Blackberry's right about the OS here. From TFA:
"The researchers themselves did not target QNX specifically, but rather the connectivity software that runs on top of QNX, called uConnect which, using cellular connections, offers Internet access, navigation, voice command capabilities and other features to drivers."
Exactly. It's no help that everyone is connected on the CAN-bus with little in way of security there...
Microtransaction based games have a fundamental problem and that is that rather than being primarily designed to be fun, they are instead primarily designed to be addictive and to drive the user toward making microtransactions in order to maintain the play that they've become addicted to. However, games that offer mostly cosmetic microtransactions that don't offer a substantial in-game advantage usually manage to avoid this problem.
Exactly.
I had a game on my tablet that I liked playing. Only I got so far and couldn't go any further without participating in the micro-transactions. Needless to say, I dropped it like a rock and moved on to other things.
You get to use Apache 2 software with GPL/LGPL code, but you do not get to rewrite the license that Apache 2 code was released under. The fact that someone gives you permission to use something doesn't mean you get to relicense it however you want.
IIRC, Apache License, like the MIT and BSD licenses, allows you to relicense it so long as certain provisions are met (namely attributions).
Many in the TDF/LO community don't like that a company can take AOO and make a commercial product, even forking it in the process.
So writing a macro in LibreOffice will cause it to be GPL while writing it in OpenOffice don't?
GPL (and copyright law) has a concept of derivative works. Input and output of a program is not typically considered a derivative work - like your documents in LibreOffice.
While IANAL, Macros would be similar to your normal documents as such they would not be considered a derivative work; not really any different than C source running through GCC.
LibreOffice uses the GPL/LGPL code because they had no choice - it was the only option available to them since they were forking the source code.
Why couldn't they keep it as Apache license?
The code was under the Apache License when TDF/LO forked the project. It was a mixed license code-base with GPL/LGPL, MPL, and a commercial license. Sun used the license this way to keep being able to produce proprietary commercial versions, and license that right to other organizations while at the same time accepting changes from the community. Sun also required all contributors to sign a Copyright Licence Agreement/Attribution so that Sun could license it however they wanted.
TDF/LO could only for the open source version of the project; they had no right to the commercial licensed works, so they had to remove that.
Since Oracle owned all the copyrights (per CLA) to OO after buying Sun, they could blanket relicense it as they chose, which made it easy to give the code to Apache under the Apache License.
TDF/LO will never be in that situation, instead they'll be in the same situation as the Linux Kernel - unable to change licenses without getting massive agreements from thousands of people or having to rewrite a lot of code to remove people's contributions.
CLA's cut two ways, and if a project is requiring it then it's a matter of how much trust you have in the project as to whether you sign one or not. Qt/KDE I'd have no problem doing so; Oracle...that's asking a bit much.
It's open source. It's up to you what you give back. And they've gone further than most in resubmission.
Never said there were no open source.
However, what is given back from one project (e.g TDF/LO) to another (e.g AOO) is a matter of licensing. Apache license (AOO) is less restrictive than the GPL/LGPL (TDF/LO); so contributions can only go one way. TDF/LO didn't have a choice as to their license since they could only fork the open source portion of the codebase.
TDF/LO cannot as a matter of license contribute code back to AOO.
I know. It's been in OO since before LO existed. Just wasn't sure if the poster was aware of it.
I just wanted a fair comparison in the case of OO vs LO. That said, I believe one of them was working towards not needing it at all; but it's been a while since I saw that discussion, so it was probably LO that was doing that.
Yes, I believe it was some 26 programmers who left Open-Office and started LibreOffice.
Not quite. There were only 3 people that actually founded LibreOffice; everyone else were more or less lemmings in the matter, and those three made decisions "for the community" when they wanted the decision to go a certain way even before the community was finished discussing the matter (f.e CLA's). That's why I dropped out of TDF/LO - it wasn't really a community.
All-in-all, a good day for free software, and a bad day for Microsoft.
Not to rain on your parade.
But LibreOffice remains nothing more than the generic stand-alone office suite of the nineties --- and conspicuously absent is a credible, full-featured, open source alternative to Outlook.
Microsoft positions MS Office ---- very successfully ---- as simply one component of an integrated office system that scales to an enterprise of any size.
Not to rain on your parade, but LibreOffice/OpenOffice can do everything that MS Office does and more.
For instance, with scripting - MS Office is limited to VBScript; sure you can extend with custom libraries but that's really about it. LibreOffice/OpenOffice support many scripting languages (Python, JavaScript, BasicScript - derived from VBScript - just to name a few) in addition to adding custom libraries that any of those languages can load.
Document support? LibreOffice/OpenOffice supports Microsoft's formats typically better than Microsoft does, especially with respect to compatibility with older versions of MS Office. Not to mention the multitude of productivity suites that use the ODF format (AOO, LO, Calligra, GNOME Office products (AbiWord, et al, Google Docs, etc).
Slashdot Mirror
Your bias is showing.
In many parts of the world, the majority of people don't need to use tax software or "do their taxes". For example, here in the UK many basic taxes are deducted at source and then reported and paid by the employer/merchant/bank, so many people never have to file a return at all. Those who do typically use an on-line system provided by the tax authority or work with a professional accountant who can then file on their behalf. None of these people needs to run the kind of tax software you mentioned on their own computer.
In the US, you are not required to file taxes period unless you owe money. The government is more than happy to keep any extra that may have been submitted via employers/etc on your behalf. Also, you can typically pick up the forms at a local post office.
So no, there is no requirement to use a computer to do your taxes in the US. It's just that there is a very large majority that is a lot larger than the U.S gaming market that do use software or on-line services to do their taxes. I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar elsewhere too.
Now it doesn't help that Intuit and others mail out copies of their software anticipating people will use it; it comes with some free access (typically Federal taxes) and then some paid access (typically States support). Nor does it help that the software is basically free even if you do pay for it as you can add the cost of paying someone to your taxes as a deduction.
Also, your stereotypes about gamers are way out of date. For example, the ESA's 2014 report suggests that interest in entertainment software is roughly equal between the sexes.
That doesn't change the reality that those using software to do their taxes are still a larger group than those playing games on their computers. However, you'll probably also need to look at the difference in there between (a) computer vs console games, and (b) whether there is a significant difference in the genders for those who will build specialized systems for their computer gaming. My guess is that the results of both will show a skew in computer gaming towards the males.
So it is very likely they wrote the works themselves as they would have been sufficiently educated to do so. These aspects are typically not in question.
That doesn't seem consistent with Marcan priority, which is pretty widely accepted. For Luke to have written his own gospel he'd have to be in his eighties at least when he wrote it, if he were using Mark as a source. I'm not an expert on this, I'm just repeating what I remember from a course I took.
Possible for the Gospel of Luke; however, Luke also wrote several others which were more contemporary and in conjunction with Paul's writing - or rather, letters to the various Churches and people he visited. Peter was also known to have written several later in life.
The registry. Windows 3.x had a registry! It was not new in Windows 95.
Well, there was a not very widely distributed version of Windows 3.x that had a registry, I've only heard it by the name "Win32s" and know it had a pre-Win95 early version of the Win32 API found in Win95; but it (the registry) was not by any means guaranteed to be available until Win95.
For businesses, sure. For private individuals, gaming is one of the main blockers for migration to other systems today, and it seems reasonable to assume that this one affects many, many more people than tax software. After all, which of (a) the PC gaming industry and (b) the PC personal taxation software industry makes so much money that even Hollywood is jealous?
Well, gaming might be for males between 5 and 45; but far more people use tax software (TurboTax, TaxAct) to do their taxes twice a year than use a computer for gaming, and that doesn't include businesses.
That's why the gospels were written in Greek? Wait, what's the reason you give? Lack of evidence for Jesus' existence is why the gospels were written in greek? How does that work? Greek was the "international" language, pervasive throughout the Roman empire at the time. Any information you'd want to spread would almost certainly be written in Greek. It held more or less the position that English does today. Jesus and his followers spoke Aramaic, they were also poor and it's virtually certain that they were illiterate.
While I mostly agree...if you follow the gospels, then at the very least Jesus was not illiterate as he read from Temple scrolls in public.
The gospel "according to Luke" is not a gospel written by Luke, it's a gospel attributed to Luke and written by someone else. Someone who wanted the information disseminated, and so wrote it in Greek.
Paul (also known as Saul) and Luke were both educated individuals. Saul being from a wealthy background and highly studied and respect Pharisee. Luke was a doctor of the day. So it is very likely they wrote the works themselves as they would have been sufficiently educated to do so. These aspects are typically not in question.
As to the rest of the Apostles, yes they were considered to generally be without much education.
SAS should be killed with fire. It is the most frustrating piece of garbage I have ever used. SAS is a garbage language, made by garbage people. And when I say that I don't mean to denigrate sanitation workers, for whom I have the utmost respect. I mean the employees of the SAS corporation are humanoids, perhaps sentient, literally made of garbage.
I won't necessarily disagree there. I only used it for a couple months back in 2002 and at that because it was something we already had. It was decent; but it certainly had its limitations. The folks on the mailing lists weren't too happy about my embedding 6 or 7 layers of macros...but it worked; the main issue was being able to debug those layers if you needed to.
I wept tears of nerd joy when I convinced my workplace to drop SAS and adopt R.
Certainly agree there. R is far nicer.
Intuitive? Are you kidding? Working on OSX...
OS X is not the MacOS of 1987, that would have been Mac OS 4 and Mac OS 5, both having releases in 1987 and were very different from the Mac OS you know as OS X today. OS X was a wholesale replacement for MacOS which brought in UNIX via NeXTStep OS and its lineage from FreeBSD after Apple both Steve Job's NeXT Inc.
Yep Xerox got the UI right.
IIRC, they worked with kids (studied) to develop the UI. So yeah...Xerox got it right.
R is also only one of several even more obscure languages in that domain, including Julia and Stan... is MAPLE still a thing? Less obscure is MATLAB, and Mathematica... (all platforms as well as languages) they've all got their special strengths as usual.
Don't for SAS Macro Scripting (http://support.sas.com/documentation/onlinedoc/code.samples.html). Extremely influential in numerous science fields and among non-programmers.
There's also VHDL (popular for Engineers, again, typically non-programmers), and whether you like it or not even in the Windows world DOS-Batch is still very much alive though slowly getting converted to PowerShell (derivative of C#).
The thing with capping data is that if you say 5GB, it will be very hard for them to increase that if the market changes. At least not for the same price.
Except they already do that. When I signed up for my plan it was originally 300MB, then got upgraded to 1GB and later 3 GB without any changes - the 300MB/1GB/3GB numbers are for the LTE data; lower speed non-LTE data is completely unlimited, but they do change the cap in my favor (upwards) on occasion.
But by then we'll have the F48 project which will be 15 years behind schedule and 2 trillion dollars over budget, which is way more than the paltry 3-4 years behind schedule and 200 billion over budget that they managed with the F35.
Well, that's always been the problem with JSF and similar programs, like the Space Shuttle, where you try to make one thing be the end-all-be-all of everything you do. Too many hands in the pot trying to make the pot everything from a Bunsen burner to a nuclear powered water boiler.
Why compare the F-35, a fighter with the A-10 a ground assault craft, wouldn't it make more sense to compare a ground assault craft to its replacement ground assault craft?
B/c they're trying to use the F-35 as a replacement for the A-10, something it's not really designed to do. It would make better sense to have a new plane designed for it but they've already sunk so much into the F-35 JSF program that they're trying to justify it.
A jdam is a complete package of dumb bomb, sensors and guidance package. Think of it as the short range JSOW (all of the above + large fins that let it glide long range to target. Source - I'm a former EOD tech.
So we should report you? Or can you cite non-classified materials?
Mod parent up!
Biggest pitfalls of the newly rich are not knowing what to do with it, so much so that they get into things they shouldn't and end up bankrupt, overdosed, etc. Simply put, everything said above is extremely good advice.
..give 90% of it away; keep what I need for a healthy, sustainable life-style; my favorite charities will be getting the rest in some form.
***(By the by, the only two things that can be built with a rPi are (1) a MAME cabinet, and (2) a home file server. Any other claims are merely gratuitous falsifications)
I'd have to disagree. My rPi wouldn't do too well as a file server; however, I have handed it just about everything else my prior server was doing to run my network; with the exception the firewall and routing - which I handed over to a Microtek RouterBoard 450G. The file server stuff I'm handing over to a Wandboard Quad - why? Because it has a SATA chipset and ports on it and can directly support a 2.5" SATA drive, the latest models even have the capability to directly power the drive if you can make the cable (rev3+). (And no, I don't consider using a USB interface for a file server sufficient.)
The rPi is a nice system; and I'm planning more uses; but a MAME cabinet or file server is not one of them. The rPi2 is does even better.
It's pretty clear that Blackberry's right about the OS here. From TFA:
"The researchers themselves did not target QNX specifically, but rather the connectivity software that runs on top of QNX, called uConnect which, using cellular connections, offers Internet access, navigation, voice command capabilities and other features to drivers."
Exactly. It's no help that everyone is connected on the CAN-bus with little in way of security there...
Microtransaction based games have a fundamental problem and that is that rather than being primarily designed to be fun, they are instead primarily designed to be addictive and to drive the user toward making microtransactions in order to maintain the play that they've become addicted to. However, games that offer mostly cosmetic microtransactions that don't offer a substantial in-game advantage usually manage to avoid this problem.
Exactly.
I had a game on my tablet that I liked playing. Only I got so far and couldn't go any further without participating in the micro-transactions. Needless to say, I dropped it like a rock and moved on to other things.
You get to use Apache 2 software with GPL/LGPL code, but you do not get to rewrite the license that Apache 2 code was released under. The fact that someone gives you permission to use something doesn't mean you get to relicense it however you want.
IIRC, Apache License, like the MIT and BSD licenses, allows you to relicense it so long as certain provisions are met (namely attributions).
Many in the TDF/LO community don't like that a company can take AOO and make a commercial product, even forking it in the process.
So writing a macro in LibreOffice will cause it to be GPL while writing it in OpenOffice don't?
GPL (and copyright law) has a concept of derivative works. Input and output of a program is not typically considered a derivative work - like your documents in LibreOffice.
While IANAL, Macros would be similar to your normal documents as such they would not be considered a derivative work; not really any different than C source running through GCC.
LibreOffice uses the GPL/LGPL code because they had no choice - it was the only option available to them since they were forking the source code.
Why couldn't they keep it as Apache license?
The code was under the Apache License when TDF/LO forked the project. It was a mixed license code-base with GPL/LGPL, MPL, and a commercial license. Sun used the license this way to keep being able to produce proprietary commercial versions, and license that right to other organizations while at the same time accepting changes from the community. Sun also required all contributors to sign a Copyright Licence Agreement/Attribution so that Sun could license it however they wanted.
TDF/LO could only for the open source version of the project; they had no right to the commercial licensed works, so they had to remove that.
Since Oracle owned all the copyrights (per CLA) to OO after buying Sun, they could blanket relicense it as they chose, which made it easy to give the code to Apache under the Apache License.
TDF/LO will never be in that situation, instead they'll be in the same situation as the Linux Kernel - unable to change licenses without getting massive agreements from thousands of people or having to rewrite a lot of code to remove people's contributions.
CLA's cut two ways, and if a project is requiring it then it's a matter of how much trust you have in the project as to whether you sign one or not. Qt/KDE I'd have no problem doing so; Oracle...that's asking a bit much.
It's open source. It's up to you what you give back. And they've gone further than most in resubmission.
Never said there were no open source.
However, what is given back from one project (e.g TDF/LO) to another (e.g AOO) is a matter of licensing. Apache license (AOO) is less restrictive than the GPL/LGPL (TDF/LO); so contributions can only go one way. TDF/LO didn't have a choice as to their license since they could only fork the open source portion of the codebase.
TDF/LO cannot as a matter of license contribute code back to AOO.
I know. It's been in OO since before LO existed. Just wasn't sure if the poster was aware of it.
I just wanted a fair comparison in the case of OO vs LO. That said, I believe one of them was working towards not needing it at all; but it's been a while since I saw that discussion, so it was probably LO that was doing that.
Yes, I believe it was some 26 programmers who left Open-Office and started LibreOffice.
Not quite. There were only 3 people that actually founded LibreOffice; everyone else were more or less lemmings in the matter, and those three made decisions "for the community" when they wanted the decision to go a certain way even before the community was finished discussing the matter (f.e CLA's). That's why I dropped out of TDF/LO - it wasn't really a community.
All-in-all, a good day for free software, and a bad day for Microsoft.
Not to rain on your parade.
But LibreOffice remains nothing more than the generic stand-alone office suite of the nineties --- and conspicuously absent is a credible, full-featured, open source alternative to Outlook.
Microsoft positions MS Office ---- very successfully ---- as simply one component of an integrated office system that scales to an enterprise of any size.
Office 365 for Healthcare
Not to rain on your parade, but LibreOffice/OpenOffice can do everything that MS Office does and more.
For instance, with scripting - MS Office is limited to VBScript; sure you can extend with custom libraries but that's really about it. LibreOffice/OpenOffice support many scripting languages (Python, JavaScript, BasicScript - derived from VBScript - just to name a few) in addition to adding custom libraries that any of those languages can load.
Document support? LibreOffice/OpenOffice supports Microsoft's formats typically better than Microsoft does, especially with respect to compatibility with older versions of MS Office. Not to mention the multitude of productivity suites that use the ODF format (AOO, LO, Calligra, GNOME Office products (AbiWord, et al, Google Docs, etc).