> Another pain about list controls in Windows is > that for one of them (forget which - I have a > library to do all this shit for me now), it's > non-trivial to find which is the selected item > in the list (or some similar operation that > should be easy). By non-trivial, I mean it's > more than one function call. Again, my library > abstracts away stuff like that, but I checked > wxWindows and it was still just copying the > Win32 interface, even for something as > obviously broken as that. I think there was > even a note in the comments as to how dumb this > was.
I'm not sure what you're problem is - you can do pretty much anything you mentioned in one function call in wxWidgets - in this case wxListView::GetFirstSelected
> If C++ would have easy member function pointers > (without scary syntax) it would be possible to > make nice GUI toolkits in it. The Qt-way is > good but not standard... MFCs and wxWidgets way > of event handling are ugly C macro dispatch > tables, afaik...
*sigh* wxWidgets has had a way to dynamically connect events for a while now - example
> False. Member function pointers are > standardized and not implementation dependent. > They do have a syntax that is unusual, however. > It's unreasonable to expect C++ to support > delegates "like C#" considering that C# was > designed long after C++.
> If you program in C++ from dawn to dusk, the =0 notation should be perfectly normal to you, and not a problem in the slightest
Yes its a problem - the creator himself even aknowledged himself that it was basically a hack because a keyword wouldn't be accepted. Just get it over with and use abstract already:).
> You cannot call constructors, PERIOD. Placement > new is not invoking a constructor, it's > evaluating a "new expression" using an > allocator function that returns the address it > is given, and a SIDE EFFECT of that is the > invocation of the constructor. It's simply > impossible to directly call a constructor in > C++.
Wow, that's some real nitpicking there:\. As long as you remember to call the destructor beforehand or call it on an uninitialized object it is the functional equivelent of calling the constructor of an object.
> Placement delete is only used to cleanup the > memory when an exception causes the constructor > to fail
Yes, but I think what parent meant was that it makes logical sense to match every new with a delete, which in the case of placement new is generally not the case.
> And, as an obviously competant C++ programmer, > you should know that if the constructor exits > with an exception, the destructor is NOT > invoked because the object wasn't constructed > and therefore doesn't really exist.
One of the complicated things about c++ that routinely trips up even experts in practice.
Good luck. Personally, I think the embedded c++ standard was the best comprimise between c and c++.
One more thing - please remember that that standard will have big consequences for compilers to come - for wxWidgets I still have to deal with old, arguably broken, compilers. Please don't rush it and make sure it gets right this time:).
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. There are a lot of issues I have with the samples - like
1) most of them still use the dumb event table machnism from the old wx. Newer versions you can use wxEvtHandler::Connect and its nearly as nice as anything QT has
2) They use compiler-specific resources! Newer apps should just use icons in a file or embedded ones
3) Compiler-specific hacks, of course
4) The dumb #if wxUSE_STATUSBAR and friends. Some of the devs themselves admit a lot of the #if wxUSE_XXX things arn't even maintained that well on non-windows platforms
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. There are a lot of issues I have with the samples - like
1) most of them still use the dumb event table machnism from the old wx. Newer versions you can use wxEvtHandler::Connect and its nearly as nice as anything QT has
2) They use compiler-specific resources! Newer apps should just use icons in a file or embedded ones
3) Compiler-specific hacks, of course
4) The dumb #if wxUSE_STATUSBAR and friends. Some of the devs themselves admit a lot of the #if wxUSE_XXX things arn't even maintained that well on non-windows platforms
Yesterday I coded an RSS reader in about 6 hours with WX to prove you could do it as fast as those.NET articles - and its without the silly cross-platform and cross-compiler hacks
http://www.solidsteel.nl/users/wxwidgets/viewtopic.php?t=2879&start=0
(Disclaimer: I was a wxWidgets developer for about a year and a half)
> If someone can't answer "A year" to that question, will they know anything about stem cell research when it comes time to vote
My main point would be that people will eventually forget knowledge they don't use their lives, and that what they should be informed with current facts that partain to these issues, rather than the exact science surrounding it.
It seems to me that it would be hard to expect a lot of people to relearn the science in these areas that are unrelated to thier own specialization. The best way I think would be to educate people on the current thoeries around global warming and try to explain the minimal amount possible of information neccesary to understand the pros and cons of those thoeries without delving into too many specifics to the point where the person forgets it before it becomes irrelevant.
Your points are well taken though. I'm just not sure its possible to educate people with so many things and keep them fresh in their memories for long if it doesn't pertain to their specialty.
Those are all nice tidbits, but people don't know what they are because they don't effect them directly... and quite frankly a lot of them are more suited to trivia then real life use.
Like how is knowing "how long it takes the Earth to circle the sun" going to help you in real life?
Ah, the weekly "OMG Users havn't switched from the last version of windows yet!"/. post:).
I recommend following a site like Microsoft Monitor for some insights about this - its referred to as Windows Fragmentation and its been going on for quite some time.
In fact, its probably why Microsoft is taking its pretty time with Longhorn - a lot of business havn't switched yet - and while they wait for Longhorn the businesses switch to XP, thus giving MS another upgrade opprotunity (XP->LH).
So that's why if MS used Apple's model for instance (every 2 years or so) they would have a LOT of fragmentation (people using different/older systems) which is generally not good for profits I'm assuming...
As for 2000 - personally I switched to XP a week ago and it fixed one big problem for me - as I usually use some shell extensions that crash sometimes. On Win2k sometimes the explorer would crash and never come back - but on XP it always comes back correctly after a crash. XP does have a wierd bug where sometimes you can't force a program to quit though.
Of course, if you really want it to be free you make it public domain:). Avoids all the licensing nonsense except in a few odd countries like Japan.
GPL is more "forced freedom" rather than freedom in and of itself...
Slashdot Mirror
MFC
> Another pain about list controls in Windows is
> that for one of them (forget which - I have a
> library to do all this shit for me now), it's
> non-trivial to find which is the selected item
> in the list (or some similar operation that
> should be easy). By non-trivial, I mean it's
> more than one function call. Again, my library
> abstracts away stuff like that, but I checked
> wxWindows and it was still just copying the
> Win32 interface, even for something as
> obviously broken as that. I think there was
> even a note in the comments as to how dumb this
> was.
I'm not sure what you're problem is - you can do pretty much anything you mentioned in one function call in wxWidgets - in this case wxListView::GetFirstSelected
> If C++ would have easy member function pointers
> (without scary syntax) it would be possible to
> make nice GUI toolkits in it. The Qt-way is
> good but not standard... MFCs and wxWidgets way
> of event handling are ugly C macro dispatch
> tables, afaik...
*sigh* wxWidgets has had a way to dynamically connect events for a while now - example
mywindow->Connect(mywindow->GetId(), wxEVT_PAINT, wxPaintEventHandler(MyWindow::OnPaint));
> False. Member function pointers are
:).
:\. As long as you remember to call the destructor beforehand or call it on an uninitialized object it is the functional equivelent of calling the constructor of an object.
s /2004/n1737.pdf
:).
> standardized and not implementation dependent.
> They do have a syntax that is unusual, however.
> It's unreasonable to expect C++ to support
> delegates "like C#" considering that C# was
> designed long after C++.
Um, I think parent was referring to the fact that the size of mfps are implementation-dependant -
http://www.codeproject.com/cpp/FastDelegate.asp
> If you program in C++ from dawn to dusk, the =0 notation should be perfectly normal to you, and not a problem in the slightest
Yes its a problem - the creator himself even aknowledged himself that it was basically a hack because a keyword wouldn't be accepted. Just get it over with and use abstract already
> You cannot call constructors, PERIOD. Placement
> new is not invoking a constructor, it's
> evaluating a "new expression" using an
> allocator function that returns the address it
> is given, and a SIDE EFFECT of that is the
> invocation of the constructor. It's simply
> impossible to directly call a constructor in
> C++.
Wow, that's some real nitpicking there
> Placement delete is only used to cleanup the
> memory when an exception causes the constructor
> to fail
Yes, but I think what parent meant was that it makes logical sense to match every new with a delete, which in the case of placement new is generally not the case.
> And, as an obviously competant C++ programmer,
> you should know that if the constructor exits
> with an exception, the destructor is NOT
> invoked because the object wasn't constructed
> and therefore doesn't really exist.
One of the complicated things about c++ that routinely trips up even experts in practice.
> You're correct, and you may find that we're
> trying to address this topic in C++0X. If
> you're interested, see http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/paper
Good luck. Personally, I think the embedded c++ standard was the best comprimise between c and c++.
One more thing - please remember that that standard will have big consequences for compilers to come - for wxWidgets I still have to deal with old, arguably broken, compilers. Please don't rush it and make sure it gets right this time
Arg, HTML sorry
.NET articles - and its without the silly cross-platform and cross-compiler hacksc .php?t=2879&start=0
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. There are a lot of issues I have with the samples - like
1) most of them still use the dumb event table machnism from the old wx. Newer versions you can use wxEvtHandler::Connect and its nearly as nice as anything QT has
2) They use compiler-specific resources! Newer apps should just use icons in a file or embedded ones
3) Compiler-specific hacks, of course
4) The dumb #if wxUSE_STATUSBAR and friends. Some of the devs themselves admit a lot of the #if wxUSE_XXX things arn't even maintained that well on non-windows platforms
Yesterday I coded an RSS reader in about 6 hours with WX to prove you could do it as fast as those
http://www.solidsteel.nl/users/wxwidgets/viewtopi
(Disclaimer: I was a wxWidgets developer for about a year and a half)
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. There are a lot of issues I have with the samples - like 1) most of them still use the dumb event table machnism from the old wx. Newer versions you can use wxEvtHandler::Connect and its nearly as nice as anything QT has 2) They use compiler-specific resources! Newer apps should just use icons in a file or embedded ones 3) Compiler-specific hacks, of course 4) The dumb #if wxUSE_STATUSBAR and friends. Some of the devs themselves admit a lot of the #if wxUSE_XXX things arn't even maintained that well on non-windows platforms Yesterday I coded an RSS reader in about 6 hours with WX to prove you could do it as fast as those .NET articles - and its without the silly cross-platform and cross-compiler hacks
http://www.solidsteel.nl/users/wxwidgets/viewtopic .php?t=2879&start=0
(Disclaimer: I was a wxWidgets developer for about a year and a half)
You don't have to do that - that's for supporting precompiled headers with a ton of different compilers and making compilation go faster.
Some compilers like MSVC do this automatically and you can just include the wx headers normally.
Well, those are some good arguments...
> If someone can't answer "A year" to that question, will they know anything about stem cell research when it comes time to vote
My main point would be that people will eventually forget knowledge they don't use their lives, and that what they should be informed with current facts that partain to these issues, rather than the exact science surrounding it.
It seems to me that it would be hard to expect a lot of people to relearn the science in these areas that are unrelated to thier own specialization. The best way I think would be to educate people on the current thoeries around global warming and try to explain the minimal amount possible of information neccesary to understand the pros and cons of those thoeries without delving into too many specifics to the point where the person forgets it before it becomes irrelevant.
Your points are well taken though. I'm just not sure its possible to educate people with so many things and keep them fresh in their memories for long if it doesn't pertain to their specialty.
Those are all nice tidbits, but people don't know what they are because they don't effect them directly... and quite frankly a lot of them are more suited to trivia then real life use.
Like how is knowing "how long it takes the Earth to circle the sun" going to help you in real life?
Ah, the weekly "OMG Users havn't switched from the last version of windows yet!" /. post :).
I recommend following a site like Microsoft Monitor for some insights about this - its referred to as Windows Fragmentation and its been going on for quite some time.
In fact, its probably why Microsoft is taking its pretty time with Longhorn - a lot of business havn't switched yet - and while they wait for Longhorn the businesses switch to XP, thus giving MS another upgrade opprotunity (XP->LH).
So that's why if MS used Apple's model for instance (every 2 years or so) they would have a LOT of fragmentation (people using different/older systems) which is generally not good for profits I'm assuming...
As for 2000 - personally I switched to XP a week ago and it fixed one big problem for me - as I usually use some shell extensions that crash sometimes. On Win2k sometimes the explorer would crash and never come back - but on XP it always comes back correctly after a crash. XP does have a wierd bug where sometimes you can't force a program to quit though.
> Has anyone else noticed any direct > consequences of this move by apple?
u lt.htm
http://www.metrowerks.com/MW/Develop/Desktop/defa
Of course, if you really want it to be free you make it public domain :). Avoids all the licensing nonsense except in a few odd countries like Japan.
GPL is more "forced freedom" rather than freedom in and of itself...