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So You Want To Be a Game Designer?

Gamespot is running a feature which talks to designers such as CliffyB and Akira Yamaoka on the subject of what it means to be a game designer. From the article: "No one just falls into the position. You claw, kick and scream and push your way into it. Most designers start off as programmers or artists. They understand gameplay systems; they live and breathe games. From my perspective, I was making my own games, programming them, doing all the artwork, the production, level design, and everything because I didn't have anybody else to do it for me. That background helped give me the perspective it takes to pull a product together and have a creative vision for it. Being a designer is about having a creative vision and adhering to it."

204 comments

  1. Answer: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    No.

    1. Re:Answer: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the guys article is untrue. I'm a programmer who has made a fair share of money. All the sudden I'm a game programmer for a small community wanting to build a game. They are friends all intrested in the same topic, and they are graphic artist to story writers. I can say that I'm making a game, and just "fell in to the position" without much notice. I feel there should be another programmer, but he is working really hard to make a living right now. I urge people to be what they want to be, but you sometimes become greater by accident. :) I'm just a really friendly developer who just happened to stumble about a great community.

    2. Re:Answer: by abandonment · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'd have to say that this is the case with most things in life - you never know where things will take you.

      i started my 'official' game industry career (as opposed to my 15 hobby years of programming games starting on the vic20 on up) by participating in an open-source game engine project many years ago as 'user # 3' using the engine...

      2 years later suddenly i was hosting & designing the website & forum, 2 years after that i became project lead organizing the community & planning features, roadmaps etc...

      which all led to me and my business partner incorporating and launching our game company a little over 2 years ago...and we now have 10 employees, 2 game engines, just finishing a mobile title for a very large publisher and a number of large contracts under our belts going forwards...

      all of which came from me donating thousands of hours helping & donating to an open source community and project.

      the trick is - if you want to do something like 'becoming a game designer', then go out there and design games - there are hundreds of free / open source engines available and thousands of people looking to make games...organize yourself and the rest will follow.

      what's the quote?

      'free your mind and your ass will follow'

      You can't look at the immediate financial benefit to start - look to the long-term goal and you will reach it...one baby step at a time.

    3. Re:Answer: by Seiruu · · Score: 1

      Funniest 2 lettered FP ever.

    4. Re:Answer: by f0rt0r · · Score: 1

      lol. I just spotted this article and was going to post the same thing. I am serious though. This year I reflected on what playing games was actually getting me. Entertainment, sure. Something to do, sure. But when compare it to other things such as sports, dining out with the opposite sex, etc, it is beaten by most things ( except watching television, staring at the wall, etc. ) so I decided to stop playing games altogether,even though I recently purchased several, they all hit the garbage can ( where there was physical media ) or the bit bucket ( where the game app was downloaded, such as Guildwars ).

      All I can say is my social life is way up, my place looks better, I am doing better at pretty much everything.

      Becoming a game designer can have its advantages, but to design games you have to play them, lots of them. You need to be available at all hours when Graphics artists, sound artists, developers, packagers, marketers, etc have questions about vision/philosophy of the game.
      Sure, you are getting a paycheck, but, what are you really contributing to society as a whole? Giving them something to waste time with? One can always argue there is something better to do with one's time ( than, say, posting on Slashdot ), but I say its the effects of ones action that are important.

      There are good byproducts of the game industry, but there are other ways to get this besides designing games. Its the difference between a game and simulation in many cases.

      Ok, I am done ranting. Hopefully anyone who reads this posts at least reflect on these words, no matter whether they agree or disagree with what has been said here.

      -Fortezza

      --
      I can't afford a sig!
  2. Something to give them... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Finally, something to give the idiots at school when they fantasize about creating the next Zelda game...

    1. Re:Something to give them... by ultranova · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Finally, something to give the idiots at school when they fantasize about creating the next Zelda game...

      Why don't you give them a hot tip instead: buy Neverwinter Nights from bargain basket and start making modules. Sure, it lets you make D&D adventure games instead of Zelda games, but you have to start somewhere.

      Coming to think of it, Zelda 3 wasn't a particularly complex game, as far as game engine goes - the fun came from level design. So it shouldn't be all that hard to make a similar Open Source engine.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    2. Re:Something to give them... by sykjoke · · Score: 1

      That's not a very good plan for the future, we need innovative games with good plots, AI and game play. Modern games are designed like a copy of pent house, nice to look at but don't expect anything to challenge your intelligence.

    3. Re:Something to give them... by sykjoke · · Score: 1

      Start them off with something simple, plain text adventure games, get them building interactive stories with plots and characters. It takes at least a little imagination, so long as they don't come up with no brains like flight of the amazon queen.

    4. Re:Something to give them... by koreaman · · Score: 0

      Text adventure games are simple?

      So we want non-programmers to get their introduction by writing complex sentence-recognition algorithms?

      WTF

    5. Re:Something to give them... by sykjoke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are plenty of adventure game engines out there, and they rarely have complex sentence-recognition algorithms.

    6. Re:Something to give them... by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Start them off with something simple, plain text adventure games, get them building interactive stories with plots and characters.

      The problem with this approach is that it takes a lot of work to make a playable text adventure, and even then I'm using a broad definition of "playable". Hours of hard work resulting in a two-room wonder is not going to be very encouraging.

      On the other hand, the area editor in NvN lets you make playable areas in minutes, and adds all that generic detail automatically which would take hours to do manually. From there, it's easy to start iteratively adding characters and learning scripting to make plots beyond "kill everything that moves and all that stay suspiciously still".

      For a beginner, it is vital that they immediately get something playable for their efforts. That encourages them to invest the time neccessary for learning.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    7. Re:Something to give them... by sykjoke · · Score: 1

      RTFA, Designer != Programmer, it takes quite a while to write a 2d scrolling game engine, but an hour or so to make a game with shoot-em-up construction kit. The z engine and the AIGused to create commercial adventure games like zork and leasure suit Larry. My sister has no problems writing adventure games when she was around ten years old using a simple point and click adventure game engine, so I'm sure budding game designer will have no problems either, the benefits of designing text or lo-fi games is that you are forced to concentrate on the story and interactivity and not on how pretty can I make the graphics.

  3. No thanks by crlove · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wanted to be a game designer forever. Then I heard all of the EA horror stories. I'm glad I never went near it.

    I have no desire to "claw my way" into a job that will make my life miserable

    1. Re:No thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what sort of EA horror stories, just curious..

    2. Re:No thanks by PakProtector · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oi! I know reading the fucking article isn't required here, after all, I've been here alot longer than you, but how the hell did you get informative?

      My Modding Brethern: Game Designer != Game Programmer

      --

      Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
      man: no entry for woman in the manual.
      "Qua!?"

    3. Re:No thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      You might be joking... but there was the eawife thing that started it all

      http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/

      then there was the reports of them giving employees low wages, overworking employees without overtime - maybe illegally etc.

    4. Re:No thanks by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Exactly the same here.

      For the last 15 years theres nothing I wanted more. After hearing all the crap which goes around I decided I'd be better off becoming a tech support guy instead. Start a local based company, goto peoples houses, fixs basic crap, rake in the money, don't lose my wife and kids because I work too much if I ever get either.

      May not be my dream but at least I don't end up as some slave who has to sleep in an office chair for 2 hours a day.

      --
      I like muppets.
    5. Re:No thanks by non0score · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think most of the people involved in the horror stories aren't the designers. Besides, designing is only necessary when there is something new or different. And when was the last time that EA had something new or different?

    6. Re:No thanks by vandoravp · · Score: 1

      I have no desire to "claw my way" into a job that will make my life miserable.

      They seem to think it's hardly miserable. In the article they say that the people involved are only there because they want to be developing games, not because of the pay or some other perk. If you really want to design and develop games, then you won't mind the crazy hours that come in the days before a deadline. And, as CliffyB says, it's no longer a field only for the "classic nerd" who is socially inept/removed from pop culture. The designers have to be in touch with the culture so that they know what people want to play. Yes, EA probably isn't the place to work, but it seems to be in the minority with respect to its environment. Smaller studios that involve everyone in the design process seem more appealing personally.

    7. Re:No thanks by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Aren't there still game companies other than EA?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    8. Re:No thanks by crlove · · Score: 0, Troll

      Point taken. Although having a lower ID hardly means you've been around longer.

    9. Re:No thanks by chucks86 · · Score: 1

      There are, but they are too busy creating games

      --
      Help a poor college student. Send a couple cents via paypal to chucks86@gmail.com
    10. Re:No thanks by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 1

      Indie companies work more as "if you know us, we'll let you in" and bigger companies are closer to EA then Indie.

      EA is just doing what every major company wants to do. They got the boot in first and others will follow suit untill it's the norm.

      --
      I like muppets.
    11. Re:No thanks by Seumas · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've clearly been around here since your mom was in diapers. He got modded informative, most likely, because game design is even more dog-eat dog than game programming. Getting into game programming is like striving to be the Kraft Services guy in the movie industry while game design is more like striving to be a set designer, casting director or writer in the movie industry.

    12. Re:No thanks by crlove · · Score: 0, Troll

      Hey, hey, hey. Let's not turn this into a "Who's dick is bigger" argument. Especially since, when it comes to comparing who has the lowest Slashdot ID... Well, you can finish the joke yourself...

    13. Re:No thanks by Seumas · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hey, hey, hey. Let's not turn this into a "Who's dick is bigger" argument.

      I didn't know there was any question...

      *whips out yardstick*

    14. Re:No thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how much do you charge?

    15. Re:No thanks by crlove · · Score: 1, Troll
      *whips out yardstick*

      Seems unnesessary, but I suppose a yardstck can measure 1/4 inch, too.

      Just kidding, man. You made a good point earlier, I can't imagine in most cases that a designer's job is much different than a programmers. Not only do they have to knock out game ideas as fast as possible, they have to be GOOD ideas, or they get fired.

    16. Re:No thanks by PakProtector · · Score: 2, Funny

      What I was most strenously objecting to, and I apologise for inciting your wrath, oh Most Ancient One, is the comparison the G'G'P Poster made with EA.

      EA is a shithole, and I don't doubt that Game Design is even more dog-eat-dog than game programming, but using the worst possible example in an industry (EA) to make a decision about said industry as a whole is a Bad Thing(TM).

      Please, Oh Most Ancient One, whose /. UID is far lower than mine, please, forgive my youthful impudence.

      --

      Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
      man: no entry for woman in the manual.
      "Qua!?"

    17. Re:No thanks by westlake · · Score: 1
      as CliffyB says, it's no longer a field only for the "classic nerd" who is socially inept/removed from pop culture

      In the hoo-rah over GTA: San Andreas I was reminded that Rockstar North was based in Scotland, something I had overlooked or forgotten.

      It had me thinking that maybe this isn't where you want to be when you are developing a game that role-plays gang violence in the states, violence against women.

      You need to know the limits of public tolerance, you can't be caught pandering to your target demographic of young male gamers and expect everyone else to simply remain silent.

    18. Re:No thanks by ShyGuy91284 · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I don't want to fall into a position like that. And I'm man enough to admit when I may not be able to be as completely-dedicated as a lot of game designers/programmers (like VALVe's team). My ideal job is working for a successful company that is small enough so that it wouldn't be feasable to outsource my job to India....

      --
      In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
    19. Re:No thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, a lower ID means that the account was created earlier, so either:
      A)He was around longer, or at least created an account before you did, and so in theory has more experience with how posting in the slashdot community works, while you were just lurking and reading.
      B)You stopped using your account because of the huge hit to karma you took from trolling.

    20. Re:No thanks by Tolookah · · Score: 1

      ... they have to be GOOD ideas, or they get fired."

      You really think they have to be good Ideas? have you seen some of the game out there?

      Boardroom talk: Hey, I got this great idea, let's make a football game, one year later than the last!

      Most games these days are just rehashes of things that exist, though there are some gems in the rough.

    21. Re:No thanks by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "Aren't there still game companies other than EA?"

      Yep. What he said was akin to saying "I watched the Star Wars prequels so I won't go see movies anymore."

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    22. Re:No thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is a flaw we are seeking to correct.

      Sincerely, EA Corporate Affairs.

    23. Re:No thanks by Shano · · Score: 1

      Managers != designers

      I suspect the sports games fired all the designers years ago, and probably the programmers as well, and just keep a couple of artists on staff to update the textures.

      (Not a sports game player)

    24. Re:No thanks by makomk · · Score: 1

      That is a flaw we are seeking to correct.

      Sincerely, EA Corporate Affairs.


      Damn, you got there before me! (The correct answer to "aren't there still game companies other than EA" is "for now...")

    25. Re:No thanks by xtracto · · Score: 1

      hahaha you got a point.

      Worst than that, I suspect almost all the managers are making the work now, I am sure 5 to 10 years ago that scripting became famous in game programming the aim was to stop needing programmers, so nowadays we see the same old games (sports, fps, rts, etc etc), I am sure producers, managers and other high rank administratives are now experts at scripting, they fire all the technical staff (programmers, qa, etc) and just modify the basic behaviour of the programs (Resident Evil 1,2,3,4,5,.... FIFA 1998 - 200X, Age of empires...) and as you say they just keep the artists to improve the textures.

      God... you know what scares me more? it makes sense...

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    26. Re:No thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Yep. What he said was akin to saying "I watched the Star Wars prequels so I won't go see movies anymore."

      Though, to be fair, the odds are pretty good that your game company will be bought out by EA some time in the future.
    27. Re:No thanks by tc · · Score: 2, Informative

      Besides, designing is only necessary when there is something new or different.

      Utter bullshit. You obviously have no experience of games development.

      The fact of the matter is that ideas are, for the most part, completely worthless. And it's not ideas that game designers, in general, are paid for.

      What game designers do get paid for is the ability to make the thousand little decisions along the way that separate the truly great game from the merely average. Why is Halo great, but Killzone merely so-so? They're both basically just shooters. The ability to analyze what's working in your game, what's not, and what you can do to push your game in the right direction is not an easy thing. And that's what most game designers are paid to do.

      Now, it's true that there are some designers out there who every now and then come up with a genuinely different idea. A Will Wright or a Sid Meier, say. But those are the exceptions. The vast majority of designers are not going to be those guys. The vast majority of designers, even when they are working on original IP, are still working within the framework of an established genre or blend of genres.

    28. Re:No thanks by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "Though, to be fair, the odds are pretty good that your game company will be bought out by EA some time in the future."

      Actually, no. There are a LOT of game companies out there.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    29. Re:No thanks by daVinci1980 · · Score: 1

      (As a teensy bit of history about myself, I worked for EA a few years ago (and shipped a title with them). Then, along with 90% of my coworkers, I left EA. I went to a third party developer, where I worked for several other publishers, and shipped two more titles. I've now left game development, although I'm technically still in the game industry.)

      You seem to think it's different other places in the industry. That's quite naive.

      It's not. EA is the biggest, but they're not the ones that started the trend of crunch time. Pretty much every game company does it at some point. The few that don't are the exception. EA's behavior is the rule.

      Even if EA were the trendsetter, the fact is that they are responsible for nearly 1/4 of the total game industry revenue. Odds are pretty good that if you decided to go into the game industry, at some point you'd wind up working for them (either as directly or third party developer).

      --
      I currently have no clever signature witicism to add here.
    30. Re:No thanks by PakProtector · · Score: 1

      I don't think that it's neccessarily much different at other places, and even if EA's behaviour is the "Industry Norm," it's still wrong to judge all Industry Behaviour from One Statistic. That would be like saying, "Well, we shot this guy with this .357, and he didn't die. Gunshot wounds are, therefore, not fatal."

      However, I much appreciate your input into this. I always enjoy being lectured by someone who knows what they're talking about.

      --

      Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
      man: no entry for woman in the manual.
      "Qua!?"

  4. It's all about creativity you say? by Man+in+Spandex · · Score: 3, Funny

    Being a designer is about having a creative vision and adhering to it."

    Or you could do it EA's way and release the same title every year and change the nametag from Johnson to Jonson and people are still gonna buy.

    1. Re:It's all about creativity you say? by sewagemaster · · Score: 1

      mod parent up.

      the AI engine for games like NBA live have not improved at all the last couple of years. Not to mention the least that they missed one of their annual releases couple of years ago. given the amount of crazy overtime shifts employees work there, you'd think they would make more adjustments and improvements per release right? unfortunately nba live isnt one of the games they're pushing the most, already knowing that they've established their fan base. good thing though is that sega has been releasing the 2kX series, which should give decent competition.

      i'd like to wonder if the nba live team in EA is the same as the nhl or nfl progrmaming folks.

    2. Re:It's all about creativity you say? by bananasfalklands · · Score: 3, Funny

      // TOP SECRET EA CODE
      for (var year=2006; year 3006; year++) // print new eagame title
      printf "introducing tenis " + year + " \n";
      for (var year=2006; year 3006; year++) // print new eagame title
      printf "introducing American football " + year " + "\n"; // This code was hacked

      Code not checked but you get the idea

      When i join ea I want to do the animation ,ad lip syncing of female tennis players grunting while playing tennis

      Perhaps that is why there is no innovation in games ?

      --
      Send Peter Clifford Francis Macrae comdoms to 23 Bedford St, St.Neots, PE19 1AX, England
    3. Re:It's all about creativity you say? by abandonment · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>i'd like to wonder if the nba live team in EA is
      >>the same as the nhl or nfl progrmaming folks.

      the idea of 'teams' at EA is a questionable one - yes there are teams working on specific projects, but EA as a company is more like Ford's production line than a typical game company.

      Teams are more divided up according to specialty than a specific title, which is why the end result is less than innovative or interesting.

      If you are a 'modeler' at EA, you are likely doing one specific type of modeling - there are entire teams of people that JUST do the mapping of faces onto heads for the sports games.

      There is a whole other team of people that is responsible for taking the motion captured data and mapping/cleaning it up for animations (for all games).

      The EA programming side is divided up into 'tech / tools', which basically produces libraries of code that all EA games use (which is being phased into the Renderware product line to standardize things even more)...

      and so on.

      the dramatic thing with EA is that even with this kind of 'assembly line' mentality, the company still produces hideous variants of content, where you end up with 2 or 3 models of characters from the same game that are dramatically different than each other - which can end up because there literally was a different team of developers working on some of the characters than the others and so on...

      Add to this the difficulty of integrating companies that EA swallows up - you have the main EA company trying to standardize technology & processes, and then dozens of smaller companies that were bought in the latest round of borg-style absorption, and the EA virus slowly infects the newly bought company sucking any life or innovation that was in the company out until it is a part of the borg and stops producing anything innovative...

      As an example, pay attention to what happens (is hapening) at DICE since the EA buyout.

      Pre-buyout / EA publishes BF:1942 - one of the most innovative multiplayer games in a LONG time

      Pre-buyout / EA publishes second game (ie has more influence, DICE slowly gets addicted to the EA nipple) - produces BF:Vietnam - still a fun game, but hardly innovative anymore and pushed out the door before it's ready, full of bugs

      EA buys DICE - ships BF:2, a steaming pile of buggy crap, although still startlingly fun to play ONCE you get in-game and IF you don't run into one of the many bugs or lag that hits most servers once they get beyond a certain level.

      the next dice game is almost guaranteed to stink.

      -------------

      With this said, i've been in the game industry for a while and i have only ever met ONE 'real' game designer - and this person was more of a creative producer - ie the person that comes up with the cool idea & high-level spec, but then must also sell the game to the publishers / finance people as well.

      I teach game design at Colleges and this is the first thing (and hardest thing) to get through wanna-be designers heads - they think that there is still this mystical 'game designer' role that every game company has - like we are just waiting to hire them because they have some idea and write up a spec for the idea...

      Unfortunately smaller companies that actually produce games don't need or want people with IDEAS, we want people that can actually produce games from their ideas...ideas are like assholes, everybody's got them...once you have the idea, the 'real' work comes - and if you are ONLY a game designer, you aren't very valuable to my company...

      hence why there are only a few well-known game designers in the industry - the rest are 3d modelers or programmers or producers that come up with the idea but then have tangible skills that can actually make the game (or a significant piece of it).

      If you want a game designer position, you NEED a real skill - ie programming or 3d modeling or animation - and can prove to a company that you are a valuable asset and n

    4. Re:It's all about creativity you say? by stevey · · Score: 1
      Teams are more divided up according to specialty than a specific title, which is why the end result is less than innovative or interesting.

      Reading the article it seemed like this was the case, and that communication with sales, marketting, programming teams was a key skill.

      To me that explains a lot of the lack of creativity - by the time you've agreed compromises with each different team you've essentially designed a game by committee.

      Whilst I know none of my work will ever really take off there's a lot of fun to be had, even now, from writing your own game from scratch.

      OK so the graphics and the sounds won't be pixel perfect - but virtually every game from the 80s I played on the ZX Spectrum I know I could replicate, given enough time. And some of them could easily be extended with bigger maps, etc.

    5. Re:It's all about creativity you say? by Man+in+Spandex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd just like to add I gave EA as an example because it was the perfect example, but it goes well beyond what they have produced.

      Since Return to Castle Wolfenstein, we saw all kinds of WWII-themed games and I just got sick of the same old MP40's "shoot em up nazi's".

      We got RTCW, Medal of Honor, BF1942, UT Mod Red Orchestra, Call of Duty, Enemy Territory, Brothers in Arms, upcoming title Call of Duty 2 and probably a bunch more that I missed.

      This ain't just about creativity. They see one kind of successful game and what they'll end up making is their own version of it. No matter how much creativity is required to make games, in the end it's still about money and money talks.

      Whatever happen to those original type of shooters like Monolith's Blood (not 2 though, very bad A.I.). Here we're talking about one sadistic but fkn hillarious shooter that gave us a selection of original weapons like Napalm Launcher, Life Leech, Voodoo Doll, Proximity & Remote TNT, Thomspon "Mafiosi" Gun and a bunch more. Then you got the hillarious Latin-Yellin (I don't think it's Latin but it looks like it) cultists that shoot eachother with TNT bundles and Thomspon guns.

      That game was original but the efforts to market it by Monolith wasn't too successful.

      It does take creativity to make games, but it also doesn't. Depends who you work for. Monolith is a company that has made many original games like the No One Lives Forever series and then you got the companies that love to make sequels that look just like the first one with two new guns/toys and a girl with bigger boobs.

    6. Re:It's all about creativity you say? by abandonment · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are many case studies, books and articles that confirm what you have mentioned.

      The #1 thing that will stop someone from 'climbing the ranks' past the basic grunt labour force (whether the grunt labour in question is 3d modeling, programming code, ditch digging or slinging coffee's at starbucks) is NOT the person's technical ability.

      You can be the most gifted programmer or 3d modeler in the world, but you will be relegated to 'programmer hell' forever if you cannot communicate & articulate your ideas AND play nice with others

      This includes being willing to work with the 'suits' that pay your salary, whether a boss or publisher.

      It isn't about 'selling out' - anyone that says this has given up essentially...It's about being willing to compromise and potentially reword or rework the idea that you are trying to get across so that the person on the other side of the conversation understands it.

      If your 'brilliant idea' involves concept A, but the publisher wants you to implement concept B, then you either need to be able to explain it to them so that they understand and can buy into the idea, or you need to be able to compromise and find a middle ground.

      The best creativity and innovation does not come through getting what you want 100% of the time - this is how Jar Jar Binks was created - too many 'yes men' saying 'yeah thats a great idea george'

      The best creativity and innovation comes through conflict and compromise. Just because a publisher or boss it telling you that your idea isn't the best for the game/movie/tvshow/whatever doesn't mean that it should be given up on - perhaps there is a way to tweak or adjust the concept or idea to take the criticism into account.

      Until you try it, you never know.

      This is why the best music & bands always have 2 or more creative people that potentially hate each others guts - it's the conflict and coming to terms with that conflict where brilliance, innovation and evolution emerges...

    7. Re:It's all about creativity you say? by Ironpoint · · Score: 1

      "You can be the most gifted programmer or 3d modeler in the world, but you will be relegated to 'programmer hell' forever if you cannot communicate & articulate your ideas AND play nice with others"

      Come off it. You really mean: "If you don't want to do any real work and just want to be IN games instead of WORKING ON games, you have to kiss some ass, a lot."

      I've seen ass kissers first hand. I'm talking *leads* that didn't write a line of code over a several year span because they were too busy hanging out in the boss's office. Posers who hang out in the office and do god knows what except to make the scene.

      And suits are the worst kind of hangers-on. They don't even show up until the money is flowing.

    8. Re:It's all about creativity you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      original type of shooters like Monolith's Blood ... that gave us a selection of original weapons ... Proximity & Remote TNT

      Duke Nukem.

    9. Re:It's all about creativity you say? by johnkoer · · Score: 1

      I definately see your point and agree with you 100%, but what is the motivation for EA to be innovative? Last I checked the 20xx titles were some of the biggest sellers for EA (Mainly Madden, College Football and Soccer). When it comes down to it EA's responsibility is to their shareholders, who want nothing more than to have EA make money. The real shame of this is that EA can start buying any of the developers that are being innovative (or purchase exclusive rights to everything) and thus stifle the market.

      The only thing I like about the 20xx titles is that I can go buy a two year old title that still looks nice and plays well for about $15.

  5. No, I really don't. by ciroknight · · Score: 1

    After knowing about how the Game Industry is a sweatshop for video games, I figured I'd make games for my own good, if I made any at all.

    --
    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
  6. false hopes by Danzigism · · Score: 4, Interesting

    seems like some of those people were merely lucked out thanks to their previous hollywood careers.. of course some had done some pretty hard work, but it almost feels like it could turn into one of those fields like "communication".. you do a lot of work, and can't get shit worth of a job.. but i encourage it.. simply because I really need good freakin video games.. they are great works of art, and its a good outlet for their expressive minds.

    --
    *plays the Apogee theme song music*
  7. Or Design A Franchise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Another way to inadvertantly become a game designer is to design a franchise. Create a successful comic book, write a successful movie, or write a succesful TV series, et cetera. Or write a good sci-fi novel. If you create a fictional universe where games can take place, and if your fictional universe gets popular enough, you'll be consulted when games are designed for that universe!

    1. Re:Or Design A Franchise by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      But that doesn't make you a designer, it makes you more of a scenario writer, or just an ordinary writer. You don't decide what the powerups are or the obstacles that they overcome, beyond coming up with the setting. You don't decide where bosses go or their precise means of attack, even if you have some kind of say over what they look like and what their attacks appear to be. You don't wrack your brain trying to decide if an enemy should to eight points of damage or only five.

  8. Re:i love you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think I've fallen in love with that girl.

  9. whoa. stop the presses. by tehsoul · · Score: 3, Insightful

    it's all about creativity you say? what job, regarding design ANY kind of software, is NOT about creativity? :~

    --
    me and my thinkpad, sittin' in a tree, c-o-d-i-n-g...
    1. Re:whoa. stop the presses. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what job, regarding design ANY kind of software, is NOT about creativity?

      Enter government contracting, stage left. ;)

    2. Re:whoa. stop the presses. by wxprojects · · Score: 1

      MFC

    3. Re:whoa. stop the presses. by abandonment · · Score: 1

      LOL, what you mean - doing ANYTHING useful with MFC involves massive amounts of creativity...

      what is truly creative is having your bosses tell you that you MUST use MFC (having heard a buzz word somewhere about RAD development) and then coding the entire thing without using a line of mfc...

      then they come around with VC blathering the latest buzzwords, your boss is happy and you can sleep at night knowing your code won't blow up in your face ;P

    4. Re:whoa. stop the presses. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Database programming :-P.

    5. Re:whoa. stop the presses. by brandonY · · Score: 2, Informative

      The 99% of programming that companies will pay you to do? Over half the programs in the world were weritten in Visual Basic. They do simple, repetitive tasks such as converting files, displaying files, and giving the user a couple options and then doing some simple other thing. They are not creative. They are not interesting. Nobody wants to do them. They are what you will write.

    6. Re:whoa. stop the presses. by tehsoul · · Score: 1

      well, programming is not designing

      --
      me and my thinkpad, sittin' in a tree, c-o-d-i-n-g...
    7. Re:whoa. stop the presses. by N3wsByt3 · · Score: 1

      Ryan, is that you? ;-)

      --
      --- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
  10. Well, I'm not a game designer . . . by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    but I play one on the web.

    I've been creating modules for Neverwinter Nights for the last few years and have had far more exposure than I would have thought possible to the world of game design. I've had teams of people working for me, dealt with NDAs and contracts, stayed up way too late debugging, and gone from extremes of giddiness to despair.

    It sounds silly, but making games is a ton of work. Most of it isn't pleasant and it requires someone who enjoys creating things for the sake of the creation. The pay is lousy and you'll get hate mail no matter what creative decisions you make. Things will break and people will complain and ask for help. I find myself playing tech support to the world, explaining how you can't overclock your computer on a hot Summer day in Spain, or how you need to extract all the files from a .zip file, not just the one that looks neat.

    Still, I've kept it as a hobby for a long while now and don't plan on stopping any time soon. On the plus side, I've gotten some extremely uplifting e-mails from cancer patients, Israeli soldiers, and Peace Corps volunteers talking about how happy my games made them when all seemed bleak. As cliche as it sounds, it's that sort of thing that keeps me motivated.

    1. Re:Well, I'm not a game designer . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what modules have you made?

      Since you sound so serious, your probably good...

    2. Re:Well, I'm not a game designer . . . by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Well I'd say you ARE a game designer (by that measure, I'm one too). And it is a lot of work, if you want it to be any good.

      But lots of fun things are also hard work. Nethack is the best computer game I've ever played, but you have to practically have a degree in it to win.

    3. Re:Well, I'm not a game designer . . . by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm the author of the Shadowlords, Dreamcatcher, and Demon campaigns. They're all in the Hall of Fame over on Neverwinter Vault. These days I'm working on a pirate adventure, mostly likely for Neverwinter Nights 2.

    4. Re:Well, I'm not a game designer . . . by dani317 · · Score: 1

      I've just fished playing the Shadowlords campaign, and it is easily onw of the best NWN modules I have played in a long time. Just wanted to say thanks.

    5. Re:Well, I'm not a game designer . . . by MattW · · Score: 1

      You will be in absolute awe at Dreamcatcher, then. Shadowlords is quite good, but Dreamcatcher raised the bar to a level I have yet to see matched. (Although I have yet to play Rick Burton's modules because I'm hoping the third and final one will be out before I do)

    6. Re:Well, I'm not a game designer . . . by WWWWolf · · Score: 1

      ::falls kneeling face on the floor:: We're not worthy! We're not worthy!

      (with a very quiet voice:) my deepest apologies, our Lord, for I have not played Your modules yet... I hoped to find time, but laziness took hold in my heart...

      (oh wait, I did try Demon Cards. Yet to try that in multiplayer. *sigh*)

    7. Re:Well, I'm not a game designer . . . by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      Well, thanks for the link. You just entirely destroyed my Sunday afternoon. What the hell, it was raining anyway... You've made me fish out NWN from the depths of the filesystem where it had been lurking for aeons, unearth my cute little halfling sorceror and get her out on the road again.

      Love the weapons. Some real nasty flavour text here. A lot more imaginative than the original modules, except maybe some of the stranger stuff from HotU.

      Oh, and damn you for that room of strange oddities. 'Further experimentation with this is forbidden' it says. Surely these monks know how people's minds work?

      Once I've finished this I'll get my nasty character out, too. Neutral evil katana-specialist, who will take a hellish delight in corrupting our friend the wannabe paladin ;-)

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    8. Re:Well, I'm not a game designer . . . by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 1

      Ah - best of luck to you. Evil Nooble's romance, which starts in Dreamcatcher, was my favorite to write for. Why is it that evil love is far more amusing than love that is noble and pure?

      I think it was Dreamcatcher when I really started using custom content. There were some really fun things to make, especially for Dreamcatcher 3, which is still my favorite of them all.

      Most of my effort these days is for the future, but I still may release some teaser content for NWN down the road. Most likely it'll be the Pirate Cards game, a variation of the Demon Cards game that shows off new content and gives people a taste of the piratey goodness.

  11. Re:do people still design games ? by Coryoth · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I thought they just added some textures and models to a someone-elses/IDGames/Valve 3D engine , add in a movie franchise theme

    Oddly enough I have a friend who works in game design and it was essentially doing that that helped break him into the field - way back when the original doom first came out he created the AliensTC mod for Doom by himself at home for fun. It had good enough artwork, level design and general atmosphere that it got him noticed in the gaming community. Since then he's gone on to various jobs in game design, including working for Valve on Half Life 2.

    The article is right - the best way to get into the field is to just get out there and put in the hard work. If you're good enough and manage to prove yourself you can do well.

    Jedidiah.

  12. but... by dosle · · Score: 0

    ...but according to the commercials on G4, all designers have to do is play video games all day! What gives?

    1. Re:but... by Snuggly_Soft · · Score: 1

      Can you believe that we get payed for playing games?!?!? That, and tightening up the graphics. The fact that the working conditions of game developers borders on Dickensian makes those commercials almost sad. Train online at Collins College! gtg, crunch time.

  13. Re:do people still design games ? by vandoravp · · Score: 1

    Plenty do. It's just really hard to find the results in all the crap and rehashes that pass for games nowadays. One of the reasons downloading games is so popular. I hate spending US$50 on a game that sucked ass and wasn't nearly worth it, though that doesn't happen much since I'll wait and read reviews or ask friends about them.

  14. come on.... by mangus_angus · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Being a designer is about having a creative vision and adhering to it."

    and willing to work 90 hour weeks while getting paid squat by EA.

    You claw, kick and scream and push your way into it.

    no that would be trying to get whats owed to you BY EA.

    1. Re:come on.... by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Thing is this thread is supposed to be about game design. I don't actually think that EA has designed anything in the past 20 years, they just keep pushing out the same old crap year after year. If they want a new "design" they just buy out the company, they don't actually design anything themselves.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    2. Re:come on.... by Luke-Jr · · Score: 1

      I know Longhorn was being renamed to Vista, but I wasn't aware the company was changing their name also... So, Microsoft to EA... I guess to drop the 'S' people so often type as '$'?

      --
      Luke-Jr
  15. Obviuos things for nerds by ArAgost · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No one just falls into the position. You claw, kick and scream and push your way into it.

    Yeah sure. And how is this different from the rest of the jobs out there (e.g. neurosurgeon)?

    1. Re:Obviuos things for nerds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah sure. And how is this different from the rest of the jobs out there (e.g. neurosurgeon)?

      The difference is, as with most enterainment jobs, there's an enormous amount of investment required to get it produced (whether it be a record album, a movie, or as in this case, a video game). So unless you're a millionaire and can self-finance, you have to convince people with money that your particular vision is going to pay off. Most movies that get pitched are crap, most music acts will never have wide appeal, most comedians aren't all that funny, and most wannabe game designers aren't capable of producing anything more than shiite.

      In contrast, most jobs are well defined and have highly predictable output, so while it may require lots of training and effort to do it, there isn't a huge cloud of uncertainty hanging over the outcome which means there's a world of difference from going to school for 10 years to become a neurosurgeon (most people if they really wanted to put in the effort and time could be successful) but convincing someone to entrust you with budget in the millions of dollars to carry out a multiyear project, well that takes some clawing, kicking and screaming.

    2. Re:Obviuos things for nerds by Trespass · · Score: 1

      You don't see neurosurgery being pushed as an easy career field to get into in tv commercials, that's how.

    3. Re:Obviuos things for nerds by patio11 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      For one, there is a defined path to becoming a neurosurgeon. You can decide, in eighth grade, "I want to become a neurosurgeon/lawyer/police officer/accountant" and, at every year from that point on, anyone relevant who you ask will say "I know what your next step needs to be". The steps generally involve a lot of work, but generally not clawing, kicking, and screaming -- just nose-to-the-grindstone following the path thats been clearly laid out for you.

    4. Re:Obviuos things for nerds by FLEB · · Score: 1

      I think it does belong to a class of "glamourous" jobs, that look like all play and little work to the uninitiated. This means that there is a glut of people rushing for training in the field, and a glut of people out to get these jobs. This makes it a buyer's market, and you have to be suprisingly top-notch, just to make it to the level of "some work, some play".

      Other jobs are either obviously above most people's self-assessed skill (neurosurgeon), or dull-surfaced enough only to attract the people who are actually interested (CPA).

      --
      Information wants to be free.
      Entertainment wants to be paid.
      You just want to be cheap.
    5. Re:Obviuos things for nerds by ggvaidya · · Score: 1

      (mental image of neurosurgeon "claw, kick ... scream and push [his] way" into me)

      *shudder*

    6. Re:Obviuos things for nerds by ArAgost · · Score: 1

      You're perfecly right! I was just objecting that most of us know a things or two about working in the IT field :P

  16. And according to Clifton... by stimpleton · · Score: 5, Insightful


    You will never get the opportunity with CliffB to "scrape and claw to the top" if you dont:

    "...stick with your first project and see to it that you finish it with the team. I've known many people who have jumped from company to company and never actually shipped a game, and their resumes look like a "who's who" of the gaming industry. I avoid these folks at all cost, as this is the primary indicator of a lack of finishing ability!"
    (From BliffyB's own website How to get hired.)

    Which for these people, no matter how talented, puts their future employment fate into the hands of the project manager, moving goalpost politics, and skittery publishers.

    Well if CliffyB has anything to do with the hiring process.

    --

    In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
    1. Re:And according to Clifton... by Seumas · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A lot of the gaming industry is like the business industry. To really get anywhere big, it's mostly about being in the right place at the right time with the right people and having the right contacts (preferably contacts with lots of spare cash).

      Talent and hard work are important, but don't get you far without being from the right family or having the right contacts.

    2. Re:And according to Clifton... by TrappedByMyself · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, I agree with the guy.

      No situation is perfect. There are always issues, usually personnell, that cause waves. However, you want people who will work through all the crap and get the job done. The people who jump around are usually the kind with some skill (or none at all), but, as he said, have no ability or willingness to do the complete job. When they hit their limits, they throw a hissy about something and bail.

      There are times when you need to leave, but when I see a resume where someone has changed jobs once or twice a year for at least a few years, it goes in the trash.

      --

      Help me take back Slashdot. When did 'News for Nerds' become 'FUD and Conspiracy Theories for Extremist Nutjobs'?
    3. Re:And according to Clifton... by SocialEngineer · · Score: 1

      I'll admit, I was one of those "hops from dev team to dev team" guys. My main problem was that I didn't realistically assess the team before I joined - I participated in 3 different efforts to make a commercial game. The ideas were great, and the price was right, but in the end each project was plagued with inexperienced management and developers (that, or no coders.. common problem :)). I've done level design, texture design, and music composition (respective to the 3 projects I participated in, in chronological order). The latter project is still going, I think. It is probably about as old as DN4E, now. Those guys just don't quit :)

      So, yeah, definately work hard to finish your projects. If you quit a project because of professional reasons, I'd say don't put it on your resume.

      --
      "Better to be vulgar than non-existent" -Bev Henson
  17. Game Database anyone? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    I am not a gamer. But I have been interested in the idea of using relational databases to drive and manage advanture games. Has anybody else explored this area? Drafted some schemas? The hardware is coming around to make game-driving DB's feasible.

    1. Re:Game Database anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You may want to play an MMORPG one of these days...

    2. Re:Game Database anyone? by Xugumad · · Score: 1

      I remember back in, ooh, 1996, seeing discussion on the use of various SQL databases for persistant storage of MUD data. While I've never actually worked on a MMORPG, I would assume that unless the devs are crazy/masochistic/have really freaky persistant storage needs I can't think of, they'll all be using some form of relational database backend.

      Obviously, spooling your game content directly from a database server would be... tricky, in performance terms, but like any other application, I'd imagine there's a certain amount of caching going on...

    3. Re:Game Database anyone? by Jim+Haskell · · Score: 1

      Try http://www.kingdomofloathing.com/. An example of a game which is driven by a database.

    4. Re:Game Database anyone? by Luke-Jr · · Score: 1

      For MOO-based MUDs, at least, it's a bunch of structs and such in RAM that are dumped to an ASCII file every x hours.

      --
      Luke-Jr
    5. Re:Game Database anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, for your edification, I understand that World of Warcraft and similar MMOs employ massive relational databases to work their magic.

    6. Re:Game Database anyone? by MeanderingMind · · Score: 1

      Most basic mods of Blizzard's Diablo II revolve around editing a large set of relational database tables to get desired changes.

      Unfortunately, this is all to often the creation of insanely powerful items, and equally insane drop rates of all the best items in the game and perhaps the overbuffing of a few skills.

      The best mods all edit the actual code via dlls, with the database table work complimenting that.

      --
      Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
    7. Re:Game Database anyone? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      May I ask what "drop rates" are?

    8. Re:Game Database anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How often an item will be "dropped" when a certain monster is killed. The items are all dropped randomly, with the harder enemies more likely to drop better items.

    9. Re:Game Database anyone? by Jakeypants · · Score: 1

      Lots of good stuff on www.myadventuregame.com.

    10. Re:Game Database anyone? by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      I'm not a MMORPG designer either, but considering certain recent MMORPG problems

      http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/19/ 1644250&tid=209&tid=10

      it seems that some devs should really learn about stuff like relational databases and transactions. At least for item transfers. Those should be atomic operations and relational databases are good at ensuring these.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    11. Re:Game Database anyone? by MeanderingMind · · Score: 1

      You may. They are the rates at which items of power and value drop. Common mods simply shoot these rates to 100%, so that every single item that drops is a Thor's Hammer of Electric Justice or a One Ring to Rule Them All.

      --
      Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
  18. Gamer requirements? by nagringo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Looking for ideas please regarding gaming. I am looking into starting a business that will require someone knowledgable about gaming. This is not the typical gaming as typically though of. My desire is to do every using LAMP. Appreciate ideas and suggestions.

    1. Re:Gamer requirements? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LAMP = Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP.

  19. Lots of curiosity out there about game design by Allen+Varney · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's interesting and depressing how many Slashdotters posting here think "game design" is the same as "game programming." But then, historically most people have never given a moment's thought to the idea someone actually invented the rules of the games they play.

    I know for a fact this is changing, because I keep getting e-mail from elementary and junior-high school students doing assignments from their teachers. They're supposed to write to a game designer and get him to answer X number of questions the teacher has provided. For inscrutable reasons, when you type the exact term "game designer" into Google, my home page shows up on the first page, higher than any other individual designer. (Yeah, I know -- you've never heard of me.) Weird and unjust, but my penance for this fame is that all these kids write to me with their time-wasting questions. So I know at least some people are starting to recognize "game design" as a job, if not yet as a profession. Hope Slashdot follows pretty soon...

    1. Re:Lots of curiosity out there about game design by lukewarmfusion · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think a lot of that confusion comes from many geeks' vision of the do-it-yourself, garage-based game developer that conceived of, designed, programmed, tested, marketed, sold, and supported games in the 70s and 80s.

      Being part of a small business means you wear a lot of hats. For a game company, that means you could be doing many of the jobs that I listed above. Even companies like id started off small and had to share the responsibilities.

      Fast forward fifteen years and you've got massive corporations with teams of designers, programmers, QA, etc. that handle very specific roles. It can be much more efficient (and profitable) this way, but as a participant in the process it probably wouldn't appeal to many DIY geeks here.

    2. Re:Lots of curiosity out there about game design by westlake · · Score: 1
      Weird and unjust, but my penance for this fame is that all these kids write to me with their time-wasting questions.

      you could do worse than having a kid take an interest in your work. that's how a Brad Bird begins.

    3. Re:Lots of curiosity out there about game design by AvantLegion · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It's interesting and depressing how many Slashdotters posting here think "game design" is the same as "game programming."

      "Same", no, but intimitely linked. The former must constrain to and work within the limitations and strengths of the latter. A game design that cannot be viably implemented in programming is a worthless piece of paper/chunk of HTML/waste of bits in a proprietary document format.

    4. Re:Lots of curiosity out there about game design by IronChef · · Score: 1

      I am also a game designer (that you have never heard of) and you are more than welcome to that top spot in Google. Dang kids! :)

    5. Re:Lots of curiosity out there about game design by cgenman · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oddly enough, I'm not getting you on the first page. Perhaps Google is looking at your history and considers you especially relevant to yourself?

    6. Re:Lots of curiosity out there about game design by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Fast forward fifteen years and you've got (...) very specific roles. It can be much more efficient (and profitable) this way, (...)

      Actually, it is pretty much the only way today. People have come to expect so much from games, the work involved simply requires too many man-years for one person to do it. And while my talent could keep up with CGA and PC squeaker, it'd fall flat on its face trying to create high quality backgrounds, textures, music and sfx. There was a time when you could drum up a few friends to cover your short-comings, but even that has moved pretty much out of reach, at least commercially. If you want it DIY today, do/fork an OSS project and hope you'll get enough assistance/groundwork to make it a playable game. Forget becoming rich on it.

      Kjella

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    7. Re:Lots of curiosity out there about game design by chrisbtoo · · Score: 1

      I get him 9th, FWIW.

      --
      Registering accounts later than some other chrisb since 1997
    8. Re:Lots of curiosity out there about game design by snuf23 · · Score: 1

      "Actually, it is pretty much the only way today."

      With PC and console gaming that's pretty much the truth. It isn't really with smaller web and mobile device games. Many small developers for these platforms are one or two person shops. Consider that Bejeweled was probably played by many more people than Half Life 2 ever will be.
      You're right about not making it rich, but some small scale developers are earning a decent income doing this kind of development. And if your little game takes off, you could make a tidy profit.
      On another note, if you are just a cog in the mighty factory of some large scale game developer - you aren't going to make it rich either.

      --
      Sometimes my arms bend back.
  20. new gaming paradigm needed by courseB · · Score: 1

    once you do get the sweet job... looks like youll end up making another violence centered game. we really need to flesh out some new ideas and maybe independent developers have a better edge at this?

    1. Re:new gaming paradigm needed by VoidWraith · · Score: 1

      I think you hit a profitable niche right in your own sentence:

      we really need to flesh out some new ideas and maybe independent developers have a better edge at this?

  21. be a programmer! by sm.arson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I personally think that the most direct path to a job in game design is a job in game programing. Programming is the only other non-design job that interacts with all other apsects of the industry, and it's a good way to learn about the requirements and concerns of all the elements and people in the games business.

    Also, when you are the guy working on the code, it's actually fairly easy to have a big influence on the design of the final product (as long as you are willing to do the work twice - their way and YOUR way - without wasting too much time, and without minding them throwing away your version in the trash).

    Also, programmers are usually involved in design meetings. Designers are (usually) careful not to waste programmer time by asking for something that would take too long to implement, so you often get the oportunity to throw in your two cents.

    I'd much rather remain a programmer, though. I like doing the work, not telling others what work to do.

    --
    for great justice, this sig has been moved
    1. Re:be a programmer! by zap0d · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You are wrong!

      The best position to be a game designer is a level or map designer an not a programmer.

      The map designer request features required to script and art assets to use and is responsible to actual gameplay and has to know to script/programm the game game engine.
      Additional team working and organiziation is a must. To be a good game desinger you still have to good programmers and artists available and know what its reasonably makable.

  22. Whatever happened to Crawford? by John+Seminal · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I was curious, what happened to the game programmers of yesterday, like Crawford who worked for Interplay before EA got to them. He wrote most of the Bard's Tale games.

    As for how competitive the job of programming games are, I can say this much. I had a roomate a decade ago. He was addicted to games, did not go to sleep at night because he could not stop playing. I think one of his games was Warcraft, I don't remember, but I used to hear him at 2am on the phone, giggling as he called up other people playing the game over the network. But the guy also was barely making "C" grades in his classes. I dunno what happened to him, he eventually moved out because he could not tolerate my drinking, and the fact that I banged his sister when she came to visit for a weekend. I guess he should not have ditched her to go play more Warcraft. I was more than happy to show her the bars, among other things.

    I kept telling him, it is different liking something as the consumer and liking it as the manufacturer. I love sports cars, but the one summer I spent working in an automotive factory was pure hell.

    Anyways, the ones that I think would make cool games are the story tellers. Who knows, maybe an english lit major would make a better game designer than a programmer or math guy.

    --

    Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."

    1. Re:Whatever happened to Crawford? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I may be drinking, but this sounds like you were just looking to tell your story about banging your roommates sister?

      bravo on that. by the way :)

    2. Re:Whatever happened to Crawford? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's kind of insulting to say that some types of minds make "better" games. They make different KINDS of games. For example, Peter Liepa, a mathematician, created the famous Boulder Dash. People more focused on writing or art make more adventures and RPGs. And musicians make music games :)

    3. Re:Whatever happened to Crawford? by May+Kasahara · · Score: 1
      I kept telling him, it is different liking something as the consumer and liking it as the manufacturer. I love sports cars, but the one summer I spent working in an automotive factory was pure hell.

      It's different, but it's the same, in a way. I always liked cartoons, so I became an animator. I love the work, but I watch quite a bit less animation than I used to (most of what I watch these days are in the theaters, at festivals, and special events), and prefer to spend my leisure time with comics and video games instead. I assume the same would hold true no matter what field I go into-- it's hard to be completely devoted to something 24/7.

    4. Re:Whatever happened to Crawford? by tjlsmith · · Score: 1

      IIRC, he got a job doing a game development column for the late lamented Next-Generation Magazine (Whatever happened to THAT might be a good topic) and couldn't stop libeling people, quarreled with management and got fired.

      Haven't heard from him since.

      --
      Mumia Abu-Jamal is *laughably guilty*. Check the evidence.
  23. Maybe you really are not agressive enough... by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 1
    I think most of the people involved in the horror stories aren't the designers.

    I think this is true. The people that ea_spouse was talking about are more or less the low level cogs in the machine, the nameless hord that do the bidding of the true designers/stars. But my guess is to become a designer/star, these are the positions that you must "claw, kick and scream and push" and back-stab through. My guess is that if you don't want to do these things, you really are not agressive enough to be a designer/star.

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    1. Re:Maybe you really are not agressive enough... by -Harlequin- · · Score: 1

      I think this is true. The people that ea_spouse was talking about are more or less the low level cogs in the machine, the nameless hord that do the bidding of the true designers/stars.

      I don't think this is generally the case. In my experience, the "true designer/star" is really more of a PR/media construction. When the cameras are off, or the journalists have left, the guy stops performing and is part of the team again, and if he isn't pulling the same hours during an ugly crunch, the other people get very resentful. If he's not pulling the same hours, chances are it's because he's not a key player - "true designers" are key and work crunch, distant/higher level management might not. The line between the two can become blurred - there are people who straddle management and production enough to qualify as being somewhat immune from crunch, while doing a lot of media interview stuff, and career wise it's probably pretty sweet, but their contribution to the game is not as large as you'd think - you hear so much about their key contributions because they're the person doing the interview. They're a bit like "stars", but rarely the "designers".

  24. Stop Pretending It's Special by robocrop · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Frankly I think the game industry will only mature when we stop pretending that it's this special, outlier, uber-hipster profession. It's a job, like anything else. All creative jobs require you to a. be creative and b. be skilled at what you want to do.

    Want to make games? Learn a skill and come up with a game idea. Big news. Everything else is just self-congratulatory window dressing and delusion.

    If more people treated it like a profession, the industry would naturally become more professional.

    1. Re:Stop Pretending It's Special by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Er, moviemaking and novel-writing are also viewed as special, outlier, hip professions. Are they not mature?

      Your "Come up with a game idea" is a silly oversimplification of the creative process. You need a coherent, nuanced overall vision for the project and direct every one of thousands of details towards that vision.

    2. Re:Stop Pretending It's Special by robocrop · · Score: 1
      Er, moviemaking and novel-writing are also viewed as special, outlier, hip professions. Are they not mature?

      The difference being, the movie industry and novel writing industry aren't inundated with the 'wanna be a' approach to luring new talent. Certainly one can find such types of ads, perhaps selling a book that will 'teach you how to write a screenplay', or some such. But I don't recall Robert DeNiro issuing a list of things to do to become an actor. Probably because it would be very short:

      1. Act.

      The shortest how-to ever.

      Your "Come up with a game idea" is a silly oversimplification of the creative process. You need a coherent, nuanced overall vision for the project and direct every one of thousands of details towards that vision.

      Oversimplification, yes. Silly is a matter of opinion. I expected this to be taken in context with what I wrote about game design as a job.

      My point is that every form of professional entertainment development requires a coherent, nuanced overall vision for the project. All of them require one or more to direct every one of the thousands of details towards that vision.

      The first step towards maturing any industry is taking hints from other industries about how to approach business. The games industry desperately needs to mature. And the mythology about it being some private club for zealots only hinders this development.

  25. oh really? counter-strike by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they didnt have to claw, or take degree courses in japan, or whatever.

  26. Step one... by mek2600 · · Score: 1

    Stay away from Hot Coffee while on the job.

  27. Games aren't always good... by Ponzicar · · Score: 3, Funny

    Just remember that you don't want to claw your way to the top, only to be stuck working 20 hours a day on "Barbie's Fashion Adventure."

    1. Re:Games aren't always good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh, I played a Barbie video game once. I had her ride a horse, then had her hit an overhanging limb, get thrown from the horse, and then a skunk sprayed her as she was trying to recover. I thought it was about as amusing as it comes.

  28. i partially agree by ylikone · · Score: 1

    There are a lot of games on the market that are crap exactly as you describe... but there are some that are very playable and not based on any pre-existing hollywood franchise. Most of the good games are found on PC's, NOT on consoles.

    --
    Meh.
  29. I have a killer idea for a game by Travoltus · · Score: 1

    But I've never been a good programmer.

    The game industry isn't ever going to really take off until you get past the stage where people who can't program but who have good story telling ability, have no chance to get into the industry.

    And if I form a company it sure as heck won't allow sweat shop conditions like EA!

    --
    --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
    1. Re:I have a killer idea for a game by donglekey · · Score: 1

      Total BS. Everyone has a 'good' idea for a game. Everyone has a 'good' idea for a movie. Everyone thinks they could tell a story or make a great game (and making a great game or telling a good story are pretty much completely separate). If you can't program or create artwork, that is fine, but it won't stop the game industry one bit. No one gets to tell other people what to do when they can't do anything themselves. It is a cliched idea, but I have never really seen it happen. All the bosses and supervisors that I have known or heard about have been extremely hard working and talented in many different areas. It will never be easy to create quality games, because people are always pushing the envelope, and that is never easy. If you really want to create games, stop kidding yourself and practice programming or creating artwork.

    2. Re:I have a killer idea for a game by Travoltus · · Score: 1

      The game industry already is mired in endless copycats. The reason why there are one or two gems and a whole lot of crap out there is because truly creative minds can't get in. Lack of talented story writers isn't stopping the industry, granted, but the industry is going nowhere very very fast. For sure there are games with killer graphics but story lines? Ack!

      You brought movies into this, well ever wonder why movies suck so bad? It's because of the barrier to entry, and the way it keeps creative but poorly "equipped" people out.

      It may come as a surprise but a solid vision and a sold overall plan is great for properly focusing those with the skills to make it happen. The US military knows this best of all.

      As a writer I would be spending a LOT of time in programmer meetings getting familiar with the staff and knowing limitations and getting input. The problem with the PHB's you despise, is that they don't listen and interact with their workers, and they treat them like cattle. Where I see it, my game is nothing without the programmers.

      Now I just need the programmers and artists to carry out this idea and if it happens I guarantee people will want to play the game. A lot.

      BTW I am a project manager by trade, having come into this from glass box software testing. I have done some programming but not enough to be a hard core programmer. I could never handle writing code from scratch to draw, especially not 3d graphics!

      --
      --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
    3. Re:I have a killer idea for a game by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Not just storytelling ability. Game design ability is something distinct from both programming *and* storytelling.

      There is nothing that says that a good programmer cannot be a good storyteller and a good game designer. But the industry, as it stands, almost seems to either weed out those with other skills, or to squash those skills in their cradle.

    4. Re:I have a killer idea for a game by Xugumad · · Score: 1

      Hate to say this, what the game industry lacks is not killer ideas, but publishers that will go anywhere near them. Finding some way of persuading large numbers of people to buy good games, over this year's update of their favourite sports sim, would also help.

    5. Re:I have a killer idea for a game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you may be equipped to be a project manager or producer in the gaming industry. I think what more annoys people in the gaming industry is when some guy whose only experience is that he plays AD&D 2nd edition thinks he is qualified to make games for a living because he's got a "good idea".

    6. Re:I have a killer idea for a game by donglekey · · Score: 1

      I disagree that movies suck and that games are going nowhere, but I think the fundamental thing is that the barrier to entry is 90% hard work. I have seen lots of people do amazing things and get reconized many many times, but they had to work for it. Maybe you could create a great game, but because you can't program or create artwork, the barrier is no longer work, it is money, because you need to people to help you. All of that is fine, but no one is going to take a chance on it, so you will have to do that yourself, which means putting up your own money and putting in the work to organize things and get funding. Also, a story line is a minor part in what makes most games fun. It is the satisfaction of cause and effect, progression, problem solving, and community. I guess what I am saying is that I think the movie industry does great things, I think the games industry does great things and I don't think there are really as many barriers as you seem to see.

    7. Re:I have a killer idea for a game by Travoltus · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I think I'd like to be a producer. I'm fairly intimate with what would be needed to produce a game - the skillset needed, the toolkits needed, and the artwork stuff.

      I have some pretty simple but revolutionary ideas for virtual personality creation and interaction, which by themselves will lend to an extremely open ended game. The simple establishment of deadlines (this bomb will blow up in x minutes) would keep the main story line going. Of course, the details of this is in my head and on paper :)

      I wouldn't reinvent the graphics engine from scratch; I'd use the UT2 or UT3 engine and call it a day. I'd implement the interaction system via ut script. Simple, beautiful, powerful.

      I know how to make a story line with many endings but also how to get the player addicted to seeing every one of them.

      --
      --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
    8. Re:I have a killer idea for a game by Nasarius · · Score: 1
      I don't doubt that you have some good ideas. I have two or three fleshed-out designs myself, which would be projects on SourceForge if I had any hope of finding someone to do even rudimentary 2D graphics for them.

      Everyone has fun ideas. The trouble is first, will anything come of the idea? The market for games is interesting, because there's always room for a great game to be successful. Second, will the implementation be any fun? Good luck to you. God knows we need more games that don't suck.

      --
      LOAD "SIG",8,1
    9. Re:I have a killer idea for a game by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      " The reason why there are one or two gems and a whole lot of crap out there is because truly creative minds can't get in."

      Um, no. The reason there are only a couple of gems out there (actually, a good game doesn't have to be a 'gem', only good.) is that the 'goodness' of a game is dependent on the WHOLE thing being executed well. A game will not survive on concept alone.

      Here, I'll use a less subjective example: Remember that early episode of the Simpsons where Homer designed a car? Oh, he was VERY creative about it. It had two domes, driver and passenger up front, kids in their own isolated dome. It had this horrible fins that were cool in the 50's. It had a horn that played La Cuca Rocha. And it cost.. if I recall properly... $80,000.

      It is VERY easy to make these kinds of ridiculous mistakes in a game. You can make a game that costs way too much to make. You can make an innovative concept that falls flat on its face because the interface stinks. (Rise of the Robots comes to mind... argh.) You can make a concept work, but the graphics can fail to convey the concept well enough to execute it. You can easily misbalance the fairness of a game thus rendering it frustrating for the players. Etc.

      My point? Yeah, there's a lot of me-too games out there. (FPS shooters come to mind.) Why? For the simple reason that no matter what kind of game you make, you need more things to go right than to go wrong. In simpler terms: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Even in the case of FPS games, great concepts are destroyed by factors that aren't controlled necessarily by creative talent. Imagine what would happen if the driving in San Andreas was mis-adjusted. A great concept would fall flat on its face.

      There is a LOT of creative talent in this market. Unfortunately, more often than not, creative ideas are not GOOD ideas. Don't believe me? Pick your favorite TV show and read some fan fiction of it.

      So what's the problem with me-too games? Hey, I'm sick of it, too. The problem, though, isn't that creative talent is shut out. (On the contrary. Creativity is what gets you jobs in this business.) The problem is risk. It's too easy for a game to be bad. We need more risk takers out there, and we need for the rewards to be greater.

      Amusingly, I don't have a suggestion on how to fix that problem.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    10. Re:I have a killer idea for a game by 88NoSoup4U88 · · Score: 1

      I call bullshit on your comment of not being able to get your foot in the door in the gamedesign industry when you're not able to program : If you idea really -is- a killer idea, you could start to work it out in a gamedesign document, and from thereon see what's technically possible.
      Definitely with how the industry is starting to shape up (with each skill specifically being brought under in a seperate design team), specialised skills are more and more wanted : Having experience in more fields always is a plus of course.

    11. Re:I have a killer idea for a game by drsquare · · Score: 1

      I'm not so sure about that. Anyone can think of an idea for a game, or film, but not many can actually make a good one.

      You brought movies into this, well ever wonder why movies suck so bad? It's because of the barrier to entry, and the way it keeps creative but poorly "equipped" people out.

      I don't think movies 'suck' so bad. Like any medium there's a lot of crap, but a lot of good as well. Do you think there'd be any better films if people started making them who didn't know how to make films? Do you know how many people have ideas or scripts for films? A LOT. If all these people, these 'creative but poorly equipped' people got their films made, there'd be millions of films out a year, all of them awful.

      Actually it's a bad analogy because people who don't know much about filmmaking who write a good script or book can get it made into a film. See Reservoir Dogs for example.

      Guess how many people have 'amazingly creative' ideas for games? Nearly everyone who's played a game. Anyone can think of an idea for a game, it's a whole different thing making one. A lot of these ideas aren't even workable, but you wouldn't know that unless you're a game developer who knows what's possible and what's not. Designing games without knowing how to make games is masturbation. It's like designing spaceships with no grasp of physics or engineering, all you do is think up all these great new concepts and wondering why those people who actually know what they're doing haven't thought of it.

      "Oh, but my game idea is different..." Yeah along with a million others. You ARE one of those PHBs you complain about. You want to have everyone else do the actual work (i.e. the coding), whilst you just sit there with your thumb up your arse thinking up ideas. But of course if the game's a success you'll want to be famous as its designer.

      I wouldn't want to work under you, trying to code all your half-baked ideas whilst you sit in your office drawing pictures of monsters and robots and wizards. Because when it comes down to it, that's all these creative non-developers actually want to do, think up cool worlds and characters and weapons, but they don't want the hassle of actually realising it.

    12. Re:I have a killer idea for a game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The game industry isn't ever going to really take off until you get past the stage where people who can't program but who have good story telling ability, have no chance to get into the industry.

      Then you become a fucking script writer or level designer. You sound like an article in Jackass Magazine.

  30. OT...but by SnoopJeDi · · Score: 1

    Did anybody else notice that Chris Avellone's bio included (under favorite movies)...

    Porn's also good, but the acting is terrible and the premises are ludicrous.

  31. working hard for some lawzy wage ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hmm, working hard 16 hours a day .. ?!

    I'd rather go for the job of "network specialist"

    creating user account, reinstalling XP & reseting user passwords = IT job WIN

  32. Game Maker by camzmac · · Score: 0

    Arr, you could just start coding in assembly if ye want to be a big shot, er ya cuud just use Game Maker.

  33. Go Indie. by Orange+Pylon · · Score: 1

    If you truly want to create games for the sake of creating them, then do it. There's many game creation utilities and moddable retail games out there, it's all a matter of learning how to use one. Just don't expect to have the production values you really want.

    If you want to design games for the money, don't quit your fucking day job, and you'd better be very well trained and talented.

  34. A clarification... by MilenCent · · Score: 1

    That's Michael Crawford, I believe, not Chris Crawford, who is a much better known designer. Which isn't to say anything against Michael Crawford. He designed entertaining (if maddeningly tricky) games.

  35. Reminds me of a song from my youth... by djeaux · · Score: 1

    So you want to be a rock'n'roll star

    The price you pay for your riches and fame
    Was it all a strange game?
    Youre a little insane
    The money that came and the public acclaim
    Don't forget what you are
    You're a rock'n'roll star
    (The Byrds, 1967)

    Of course, I don't think most game designers have to worry about the girls tearing them apart ;-)

    --
    "Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
  36. NO by roror · · Score: 0, Redundant

    enuff said :P

  37. All hail friend Allen Varney! :D by mr_tenor · · Score: 2, Informative

    Rejoice that FC has given you the honour of educating the infrared masses so that they may better serve FC :) Are you saying this doesn't make you happy?

    1. Re:All hail friend Allen Varney! :D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      You Commie mutant traitor!

  38. A few tips on becoming a game developer/designer by overd-ose · · Score: 5, Funny

    1) Harbor an absurdly arrogant personality, enough to power a small city. Remember, you're a game designer now. You're better than everyone else in the computer industry. You may work in a cubicle in a nondescript office building just like anyone else, but dammit you're a game designer. You are special.

    2) Develop an aversion to all forms of higher education. B.S. in math? Ewww, math. PhD in computer science? Pssh, you wasted your money on that? Wrote a Tetris clone in Pascal in your high school computer class? Whoa, you are young, edgy, and obviously too cool for school. Bonus points if you mentioned how much faster your program would be if you had written it in assembly. Uber bonus points if you started programming before the age of 9 because everyone knows that any decent developer started programming before they knew what their pee-pee was used for.

    3) Research the many game programming flame wars so that you can be up to speed. Some places to start: C++ is slow, OpenGL/DirectX: Which one is better? (note: DirectX and Direct3D are just different names for the exact same thing, no difference...), Doom 3 has better graphics but Half Life 2 is the better game, Nvidia is better than ATI, etc.

    4) Read everything you can by Andre LaMothe because he is the most relevant voice in the game industry...period! Oh, especially his "Tricks of..." series because everything when it comes to video game programming is a trick or a hack or the product of black fucking magic.

    5) Know your video games! The only way to create a truly original video game is to know what's already been made. But if that doesn't work out, you can just create the umpteenth iteration of the same tired idea with better graphics and minor variations in game play and repackage it with CGI tits and ass and republish it at a higher price.

    5a) There is nothing wrong with run on sentences. You're a game designer dammit! Time not grammar for!

    6) Buy a Ferrari. Game designers make shit-tons of money. Heck, buy two. Use one during the week and the other one during all that free time you're going to have on the weekend...

    7) Practice your deepthroating. You will need to fit John Carmack's penis down throat on a whim in casual conversation. This is sort of paying your dues to the gaming gods.

    8) Game developers play lots of video games at work. In fact, on some days, that's all they do. So practice, practice, practice. You wouldn't want to get your ass kicked all the time by your co-workers?

    9) Mountain Dew and bag of potato chips is a well balanced meal and you will suffer no ill effects in the long run.

    10) Sleep is for the weak.

    Okay, the fact is the gaming industry is fucking insane. You're working absurd hours to meet absurd deadlines so little Johnny can see the zombie's heads detonate in per pixel lighting only to get a memo on your desk that Johnny's parents are suing the company because they find the minor sexual content in the game to be offensive. And most game developers have earned advanced degrees in CS, Math, or Physics. They are smarter than you are. Go to school. Get a degree. Oh and avoid everything by andre lamothe, he only serves to belittle the accomplishments and hard work of very bright, very talented people in the industry. It is not black magic, it's just really fucking hard.

    This brought to you by a frustrated RPI computer science major who realizes he's just too fucking stupid to make it as a game developer/designer.

    btw, I think John is a brilliant developer, a nice guy, and I would gladly service him. Go spaceman, go...

    --
    i like grapes
  39. try rockstar games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they'll hire you if you can embed porn in your design.

  40. Brace for more paid OSDN advertising! by volve · · Score: 1

    Does anybody else smell a strategically-delayed yet feeble PR campaign from the likes of EA?

    Sure smells that way to me. Is there anybody actually out there that still thinks the game industry is all peaches and cream? Jesus, I'd rather be working as an intern at Merrill Lynch...

    -volve

  41. Re:do people still design games ? by thedustbustr · · Score: 1

    flamebait? This is why I boost flamebaits +4...

    --
    This sig is false.
  42. Stay away by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously people, don't fall for the fool's gold of the gaming industry. It is long hours (ready for 13 hour days?), working on the weekend, becoming a stranger to your children and wife at least if you are a programmer (they always get it worst). I see this around me all the time and it makes me very sad for these people. Don't they deserve a normal life like everyone else?

  43. Missing the point by StefanJ · · Score: 1

    The kids writing Allen most likely have no real interest in game design. They're writing him because they had an assignment (e.g., "What is your dream career?"), spent a week playing video games instead of doing any research, and then the night before the paper's due-date did a Google search and pestered the first guy on the hit page with questions.

  44. Low-rent version of this by StefanJ · · Score: 1

    Sorry, dude. You ARE a game designer. Live with it. You may not be a paid professional, but you are still a designer and the fact that people write and thank you for your work is a really good sign.

    I don't play Neverwinter Nights, but:

    One of my college professors had a cartoon taped to her file cabinet. It showed a badly drawn Charlie Brown sitting on a curb, chin resting on crossed arms, with a sour expression on his face.

    In a thought balloon above Charlie's head:

    "Getting a paper published is like pissing yourself when you are wearing a dark suit. You get a nice warm feeling but no one else notices."

    I'm engaged in the game design version of this. I am writing INFORM text adventures.

    I have one practice adventure finished; a haunted house adventure:

    "Compiled" file for playing with Frotz or other Infocommish play engines:

    http://home.comcast.net/~stefan_jones/Radley.z5

    Source:

    http://home.comcast.net/~stefan_jones/Radley.inf

    I'm working on a much larger summer camp adventure. Actally had most of the text written, but put the files in a folder I didn't back up prior to getting this laptop serviced. Duh.

    Stefan

  45. It's easy by RKBA · · Score: 1

    Here's a game I recently designed and put up on the web just a couple of days ago - and it's for *real* money, not "virtual" money:

    http://webpages.charter.net/rsdotson/

    1. Re:It's easy by fliptout · · Score: 1

      Very cute. What's the catch?

      --
      A witty saying proves you are wittier than the next guy.
    2. Re:It's easy by RKBA · · Score: 1

      There is no catch. It's legit. I will happily pay $1,000 to the first person to solve the puzzle - and it *does* have a solution.

    3. Re:It's easy by gbarta · · Score: 1

      I have found the solution, but we need to come to an arrangement about my other $19,000, don't you think?

    4. Re:It's easy by crucifer · · Score: 1

      unfortunatly, I don't think this is the number to factor...

      it is indeed 640bits ... but it's not this one.

    5. Re:It's easy by crucifer · · Score: 1

      Sorry ... it is indeed the right number ...
      I was confused since I was working with the already XORed number.

    6. Re:It's easy by RKBA · · Score: 1

      Ah, very good - Congratulations! I was wondering how long it would be before someone realized the true purpose of my little puzzle and why I would gladly pay $1,000 for the solution. I should have known it wouldn't take long for someone on SlashDot to figure it out. ;-)

    7. Re:It's easy by rgovostes · · Score: 1

      Damn, you beat me to it. Congrats :)

  46. Ferris State University by tverbeek · · Score: 2, Informative

    I have no idea how good it is, but Ferris State University's Grand Rapids MI campus launched a game-design program a couple years ago. For what it's worth, I (an employee of Ferris' art-and-design college) have just been assigned to take over tech support for them, so I'll be getting a better picture of the program in the coming months.

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
  47. Re:A few tips on becoming a game developer/designe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Uber bonus points if you started programming before the age of 9 because everyone knows that any decent developer started programming before they knew what their pee-pee was used for.

    You mean it's not just there for show?

  48. Good Ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take a look at the three major entertainment industries out there: music, movies and games.

    Here's an interesting parallel: most of the "entertainment" they produce is crap.

    Apparently, the big publishers profit just as much from crappy games/music/movies as they do from truly great, original g/m/m. It is not as if there is a shortage of good ideas, since even a highschool kid can come up with a great idea for a sequel to Zelda.

    THE PROBLEM HERE is that the real consumers (us) know what we want, but we're not getting it because someone else is deciding what gets put out. At first glance, it appears that the crap they make is just a failed attempt at something good; but in reality, it was crap from the drawing board and they knew it.

    THE SOLUTION is to tell all of your stupid relatives to stop buying you video games for Christmas/birthday/whatever because all they do is look at the label and think "Oh wow, this game is about E.T., my nephew will love it!"

    And when you're watching TV and there's an ad for a movie that looks kind of good, ask around before you go see it because chances are the person who made the commercial is a better filmmaker than the person who made THE FILM.

    And when you're browsing through the CD store looking for a good album to buy... go home and download it. And stop supporting bad music like Papa Roach or Fred Durst. Their melodies are simplistic and unoriginal. When you reach a point where RAP songs have more interesting melodies in them than ROCK songs then there is a serious problem with ROCK right now. F'ing idiots repeat the same three power chords over and over and call it rock and roll.

  49. Re:A few tips on becoming a game developer/designe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    11) read gamedev.net regularly and believe that it makes you smart and informed. be sure to reference threads on the forums and quote from posts often.

  50. ...or would you rather do something useful? by mclaincausey · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    SSIA, sorry for the troll but I'm kinda sick of these gaming nerds in my CS program.

    --
    (%i1) factor(777353);
    (%o1) 777353
  51. Re:A few tips on becoming a game developer/designe by Fastball · · Score: 1

    Game design has little if anything to do with math. More writing than programming or algorithms.

  52. A good place to start if you're serious... by jellodc · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here's a good place to start if you're interested http://www.gamedev.net/reference/ Looks like it would takes years of dedication, but the payoff would be ... low wages long hours?

  53. Insomniac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://insomniacgames.com/Insomniac Games, creators of the R&C series, is the third best small / medium company to work for in America.

  54. Re:A few tips on becoming a game developer/designe by cgenman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, math comes in really handy. Your first pass at balancing anything will need to be a mathematical one. You'll need math and algorithms to create healthy systems.

    Far more than anything, though, you will need economics. The feedback systems that economics focuses on are exactly the sort of things that you will need as a game designer, without the stuff like calculus and O of n.

    Of course, you will also need a healthy dose of writing and management. Design is 1 part writing designs, and one part managing teams.

    To counterpoint the original poster, things you will need as a designer:

    1. Backgrounds in basically everything. This ranges from the history of 17th century naval battles to being able to name all modern men's shoe styles. Everything comes in handy somewhere along the line.
    A. Take Art. If you're a bad artist, or not an artist, this is even more important.
    B. Take Programming. If you're a bad programmer, or not a computer guy, this is even more important.
    C. Take film studies.
    D. Take management.
    E. Take economics.
    F. Take a little of everything else you can get your hands on.

    2. Yes, know all of the games out there. Play them all. Try to avoid making the same mistakes that 30 other teams already have.

    3. Be stubborn sometimes. Being a designer involves adhering to a vision doggedly, which can be hard after 13 months of development. Be flexible, but when need be stick your foot down to stay true to the experience of the game.

    4. Stay focused on what you're making. Remember, while it may be 13 months to you, it's 4 hours to the player.

    5. Become a good communicator. Design is to a large degree about communication. Learn how to tell someone that something they just spent 6 weeks on sucks without discouraging them.

    6. Be aware of yourself and your experience. You know, that touchy-feely junk. You are your best laboratory. You're also not your only laboratory, so run playtest sessions, but you really do need to know how you're experiencing things at all time.

  55. start off as a programmer? HAHA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    First, I've worked for EA, and I work for Sony now as a game programmer, so I know something about this. In all my 10 years, I've only known one person go from programming to design. The reason? Who wants to take a huge paycut to be some creative director/execs lackey? Good programmers make 50% more than good designers. The gap is even wider between so-so programmers and so-so designers. Programmers get more respect with management, although they don't always get all the fame. So I guess if you want to trade a little fame for a huge chunk of cash, go for it. I'll take the cash, because I like my BMW, thank you.

    I guess if you're a shitty programmer you can go into design and do better, but I think that's the exception and not the rule.

    Remember, unless you're making your own game, you're somebody else's bitch.

    1. Re:start off as a programmer? HAHA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Remember, unless you're making your own game, you're somebody else's bitch.

      I've been a designer in the industry though admittedly for less years than you. I find this a surprising comment to make as part of what seems to be a bit of shit-talking towards designers. In my experience and I think in most good shops, designers are paid to DESIGN i.e. think and make intelligent, rational decisions about how things should work and why (not just art production). This means its usually the designers are the ones who are telling the coders how things should work and its the coder's job to find a way to execute the designer's decisions. Where I work, the designers are definitely favored above the programmers, I'd say to a fault.

      Coders do get higher salaries, but if something as simplistic and quantifiable as money was my highest priority, I wouldn't have gotten into this field. I could've been a hedge fund manager and said to you "I'll take the cash, because I like my 911, thank you." There are better reasons to have a job than number of zeroes in the salary.

      That said, I'm sure the salary hit would be a real obstacle to people switching to the design side of things. And yet in my experience I've met far more coders with unfulfilled design ambitions than vice versa. The reason? I think good design (like good coding) requires some qualities that just can't be taught and there were probably extant reasons that so-and-so went into coding in the first place.

  56. Re:do people still design games ? by trawg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That AliensTC mod was one of the best damn gaming experiences I ever had.

  57. Romero says: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you work hard at it maybe your first game design can be as good as a veteran game designers masterpiece like "Daikatana"

  58. Hard work be damned! by EvilOpie · · Score: 1

    Unlike what Cliffy says, it's not about the hard work and the kicking and screaming to get to the top. It's really all about the bunny suit!

    (Backup link incase the one above doesn't work)

    --
    -Through the server, over the router, off the firewall... Nothing but 'Net!
  59. A Perspective from the Game Development Trenches by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

    Yep, I occasionally still dream about being a game designer, even though I'm a professional game programmer. Unfortunately, much of the attractiveness of being a designer comes only if you actually had complete creative control, and this is most definitely not the norm.

    While this may be the case with a handful of a well-known few, most game designers in the industry are handed a tight set of constraints for any game they are assigned to work on. They must endure a good deal of 'direction' from higher-ups within their own company and from the publisher (as well as justifying their design decisions). If they're lucky, they won't get forced to add features that end up destroying the game. Unfortunately, it's nearly impossible for those in positions of authority to abstain from playing 'game designer' to some degree, even if they have no real talent for it.

    Generally speaking, if you have some sort of 'I have The Vision and if you disagree with me, then you're a moron' attitude, you're not going to make it in this industry very far. If you know how to get people excited about your ideas... if you can build a concensus from among a wildly diverse set of professionals... if you can modify your ideas on the fly because the programmers or artists tell you your idea won't work... then you might just make it.

    Anyhow, I still have a lot of creative input as a programmer. Any good designer is open to good ideas. Nearly all the games I've worked on have had a fairly collaborative design effort.

    In fact, I had a lot of design ideas for the current game I'm working on (LOTR: Tactics for PSP), and it's been fun seeing those ideas coming to life. I can't tell you any more or EA will send their hit squad after me... Actually, kidding aside, EA has been pretty good about giving us enough slack to get this game done, so we're feeling pretty good about it so far.

    The reality is, I'm pretty happy with my job as a programmer. One of the best parts of my job is that managers can't sit over your shoulder and say, "Shouldn't that bracket be moved a little bit to the left?" Programming to most everyone else is still a black art, so they leave us wizards alone... heh.

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  60. What is so difficult about this by jurt1235 · · Score: 1

    I just got offered a game design job last friday, and I didn't even ask for it.

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    My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
  61. Verenia Presentation by amonredotorg · · Score: 2, Informative

    A few years ago I started a Myst-style adventure game project called Verenia. It's no longer active because it failed horribly. ;)

    However, leading the project has given me an incredible amount of experience. At EuroMysterium 2005 (a convention for Myst fans) I gave a presentation on the subject of leading a project. It's aimed at doing adventure games, but it applies to most, if not all, game types.

    I hope this is useful to anyone who has been thinking of starting a game project. :)

  62. Re:A few tips on becoming a game developer/designe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you don't understand this book, time for a math degree.

  63. Being a good and successfull game designer ... by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    ... can't be THAT difficult: GarageGames.
    Of course, it will take a few years and some buddies pithcing in at one time or the other, but in the end it isn't that much more difficult than building a good piece of software alltogether.

    "You gotta be good at it, be patient and stick to it" - No, really?

    If you wanna be a game designer, start now. Everything you need to build a game can be learned within a year by a skilled computer user and the tools nowadays cost a few hundred euros maximum. You won't build WoW of HalfLife3, because those need - most of all - huge man power. But you can build a good game. And have fun at it. You just have to do it.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  64. Can't break in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only way I can see doing it is coding up your own stuff. Corporations can't hire talent unless its visual artists.

  65. Someone mod the parent up! by Travoltus · · Score: 1

    A Game design document? What is that?

    And who would I show it to in order to get some help going?

    --
    --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
    1. Re:Someone mod the parent up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      According to EA, about 100 pages of detailed information :-)

      But I would start off with a ten page glossy treatment first. Read game developer magazines passim for details.

  66. 50% complete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I got about half of the lights to turn off. I'll be getting my $500 in a moment, thank you!

  67. Impact of video games on society by CrazyJim1 · · Score: 1

    Sure, you are getting a paycheck, but, what are you really contributing to society as a whole? Paragraph about me being one of the driven people, skip it, you already heard this a million times over. The next paragraph is about my philosophy on games and their impact on society. I actually was a hard core driven game player/designer for the last 25 years. Ever since I was 3. I can't tell you how many games I completely dominated, culminating with my #1 worldwide spot in Starcraft and Warcraft3. You can't argue with ladder ratings of 72-0, or 170-0, etc. Anyway I also spent hardcore hours in programming and design, literlly destroying years off my life with little done but programming and design. None of my games ever come out, but you can check out my weak site at www.jimsager.com

    A game like PacMan has little impact on society except for an over used joke. But a game like GTA:San Andreas (NOT TALKING SEX GAME HERE), has impact. Rap lyrics have about the impact as GTA, advocating cop killing, drugs,prostitution, drugs, and other bad behavior. If you don't think rap or GTA has any effect on kids, just stop reading, because the rabbit hole is gonna get deeper here.

    I was writing a 3d fighting game. Imagine Tekken, with a true 3d landscape, so you could fight multiple opponents, but still have the depth of combat. It'd rule over all other MMOGS in the market. I started by making 5 good and 5 evil classes. Then I realized that 2 of the evil classes had gruesome moves like Mortal Kombat style brutality. One of the wrestling fighters would do repeated slamming of heads off walls/floors and other enemies so it was simply brutal. The ninja would have extremely high level dismemberment moves, ala Time Killers. But I got to thinking: Does society really need more violence?

    Back when Bruce Lee started making martial arts movies popular in the west, he was competing with an oversaturated martial arts market in his own home area. The movies were completely brutal with people losing guts and dying grotesquely. His movies were refreshing as they didn't focus on brutality as much as philosophy and tactics. Now maybe I could make my games 'clean', ala(the big blood debate of Street Fighter 2/Mortal Kombat for SNES), but at its core, you still have people beating the snot out of each other. Is that some message you want sent: Gain more power, and defeat your enemy!

    I'm switching gears now, and I'm making a more innocent game. It will still have a sword and a berzerk style lazer gun beam, but the graphics will suck, and have no true plot. I just want to make a video game without running culture. Sure kids will want to play Cowboys and Indians or Cops and Robbers, but I don't want to get into that. Kids just think the tactical aspect is cool, but they get the culture all mixed up. What is a 9 year old going to understand about something that happened way back in history, and wasn't even a fair fight. No kid would think plaguing another people with disease is an even or heroic fight. I actually don't think many kids these days play Cowboys and Indians anyway, that was a fad back in the 50's with the prevailance of what was in the movies. Now its maybe StarWars, but you maybe are glimpsing into how people mimic their media.

    Gangstas really live their media. They like to try and lead a life of bling bling, and control. A Gangsta maybe would still be the same without GTA:San Andreas, but it could fuel their Scarface dreams. A Gangsta doesn't need to be given queues on the ultimate fantasy life of a Gangsta, they shouldn't be fed anything giving a positive message on their way of life. Gangstas need negative repremands in the media and video games. Maybe thats what is needed to be studied... Instead of just beating down on Drug Dealers, the whole aspect of who they hurt is portrayed... Games are a lot like movies, and they can have social impact... But it'd probably be tough getting something that's fun as well as emotionally rivetting. I really d

  68. Tighten those graphics! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That commercial went around the pro web boards causing great mirth. Most people thought it was a satire though!

  69. Another Quote by Boronx · · Score: 1

    Some jerkoff asks Tolstoy, "I want to become a writer, what should I do?"

    Tolstoy says, "Write."

    1. Re:Another Quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wasnt jerkov some russian related to fakov (or was it sodov)?