Steam on Linux is essential in our household, since that is the only solution that supports multiseat. I have dual GTX 970 and GTX 710 with FX 8370 supporting 3 seats. This allows me to have two users play ttwo sessions of games such as Civilization 5, Tropico 5, Total War, City Skylines and many other Linux games on steam in parallel while maintaining only single computer. We can also play 3 sessions of Minecraft in parallel.
I think this could be real differentiator for Steam boxes and SteamOS for Valve for families that have two kids without buying two computers or gaming consoles.
I have better advice for Facebook, Google, Hulu and all other interactive media. Why don't you ask me what kind of ads/informertials I want to see? Stop trying to figure out what I may want and stop showing me crapy ads for insurance (I have one), laundry detergents (who cares) or senior mobility devices (still have couple decades to get there). Ask me what ads I would like to see (cars, computers, movies, music, etc.) and then make those ads not only entertaining but also educational/meaningful. I would be happy to see few of these before or after my movie or while I am browsing.
You are correct, but there is a reason for it. Value is subjective to a given user. My posts in this topic (not necessarily in reply to you directly) have plenty of facts, e.g. price, performance, etc. At the end the numbers are just that, numbers. You have to translate the numbers to real world meaning. Thats where the words like 'value' 'satisfaction' 'opinion' come in.
If you ask user to spend $100 for product A and $200 for product I, the user will ask, what do I get in return? You can thrown the numbers you used on him, but most user will come back in return and say, is the difference in numbers really WORTH (another word!) the $100 (or twice) the difference? Or maybe, since we are talking about computers, can I use the $100 and spend it on something else that provides much more value (here it is) that if I spend it on CPU? How about more memory, how about better graphics card, how about bigger monitor. How about not spending it at all on computers and taking your wife out for a nice dinner, she will see lots of value in that:-)
Good conversation, there is no right or wrong, just different people look at this differently. Intel is doing a decent job with pushing the performance and power savings, it is just not that important to me.
We all buy products at certain point in time. At this point in time, this is the best value. Few years ago when Fry's was offering crazy discounts on Intel CPU/motherboard bundles, Intel value was much better a well (not accounting for future upgradability prospects).
You misread my comment. My comment implies that I can buy newer/better motherboard and slower/older CPU and upgrade to newer/better CPU when the prices decrease. This is possible becase the newer motherboard supports the older CPUs and the CPUs actually decrease in price. With Intel motherboards it is not simply as easy. For one, the socket change and they are not backward compatible and for two as this article comfirms, the CPUs don't decrease in price as much.
1156 was current model at the time I bought it 2 years ago. Too bad it lasted only 1 generation of CPUs.
You are correct that there is more caveats to this and the comparison is not as simple, the point though is that the value and savings go beyond just CPU when you start taking into account other components.
There is definitely no discussion about which chip is faster and had more features. My point is, the AMD provides a really good value for the money. Sure you can outspend yourself to higher performance, but spending money is easy.The question is if the higher cost will reflect itself in higher productivity, satisfaction, usability, etc. In my opinion at today's performance levels 99% percent of people will not notice. I have a monster dual CPU 4 core each (8 with HT) Intel workstation I am writing this on which I use for daily hard code SW development and let me tell you, I don't see difference in may daily routine between this and my AMD based desktop which I use for similar tasks.
Dont even get me started on upgrade path where Intel changes the socket so often that it is hard to keep up and you not only have to change the CPU but also the motherboard. My latest Intel (yes I have both:-) used LGA 1156 which was replaced with incompatible socket LGA 1155 soo after. That means that I cannot reap benefits of decreasing prices (if any such decrease would happen) without incurring additional cost of upgrading motherboard.
With AMD and AM2/AM3/AM3+ socket evolution I am able to purchase better motherboard and lower cost processor and then upgrade as prices decrease.
Microcenter or Fry's throws is also cheap motherboard. For $90 you can get top performing AMD CPU and motherboard. My 4 core AMD supports 3 way multiseat and runnning 4 X11 sessions on Ubuntu 12.04 just fine. Match that Intel.
I second this. Just get another drive and start from scratch on that drive. If you need any data from the old drive, do it on a isolated computer on different non standard OS (*BSD or *nix) to prevent cross contamination. I would also reapply BIOS in case they found a way to infect it.
LVM is another possibility. If you can get SATA drives and plug them all in, you can then create LVM volume spanning all the drives and just simply copy the data over to one large volume. LVM will take care how to span it across the drives.
Not sure if this is problem of distro or grub, but once installed then it works on/dev/mapper RAID drives just fine including failover. But I still believe the setup is so complicated that it easily result in unbootable system
I am not sure what was your point. We were not discussing tax revenue of goverments or how to balance budgets. We were dicussing take-home pay of people in IT industry. There the tax rates really matter. It is not unseen to have effective tax rates (after all the deductions, etc.) in US for upper middle class (where many of the IT people are) in 10-12% range based on information shared with my friends in US. Compared that to 40% rate my friends in Germany IT industry talk about.
How about you factor taxes in and then we talk:-) How much taxes do you pey on 100+/year after all deduction? Now take a look at effective/actual tax rate in US in this category.
Full disclose as well - Our family uses Linux on all our home computers for 5+ years for most things including productive office type work, school (both elementary and higher level education), multimedia and development. We have Windows for rare gaming. We use iPads for mobile/entertainment/gaming, etc. I use Linux and Windows at work. I have never consistently used OS X.
While I do agree that the impression is that Linux "can't compete with Windows in terms of "Productivity Software for Average People"" the reality is that the gap is getting much smaller all the time. Just one random example of Corel purchasing releasing Bible Pro and releasing it as AfterShot Pro establishing legitimate competitor to Apperture and Lighroom" and Valve confirming Steam for Linux (still vaporware).
In any case, my point was that if OEMs are squeezed by Microsoft from their established markets (Windows based PCs and HW) they may be pushed to position to make additional resources (money, marketing, support) available for non Microsoft solution. This may change the established impressions about such non MS systems. Using the "Live by the sword, die by the sword" analogy, the OEMs if pushed may become Microsoft undoing. Microsoft succeeded to avoid OEMs and challenge established vendors using their XBox and it assumes it can replicate the same success in tablet market.
Actually I believe this is too bad for MS, they chose wrong time. Now the OEMs actually have an options (Android, Ubuntu and co.) to deliver compeling use experience without MS. The one who can actually loose here is MS, since it can have hard time to compete with gazillions of generic lower priced offerings on the bottom end and iPad on the high end.
Slashdot Mirror
Steam on Linux is essential in our household, since that is the only solution that supports multiseat. I have dual GTX 970 and GTX 710 with FX 8370 supporting 3 seats. This allows me to have two users play ttwo sessions of games such as Civilization 5, Tropico 5, Total War, City Skylines and many other Linux games on steam in parallel while maintaining only single computer. We can also play 3 sessions of Minecraft in parallel.
I think this could be real differentiator for Steam boxes and SteamOS for Valve for families that have two kids without buying two computers or gaming consoles.
Domain expired on 7/26/2013. What a coincidence :-)
I have better advice for Facebook, Google, Hulu and all other interactive media. Why don't you ask me what kind of ads/informertials I want to see? Stop trying to figure out what I may want and stop showing me crapy ads for insurance (I have one), laundry detergents (who cares) or senior mobility devices (still have couple decades to get there). Ask me what ads I would like to see (cars, computers, movies, music, etc.) and then make those ads not only entertaining but also educational/meaningful. I would be happy to see few of these before or after my movie or while I am browsing.
You are correct, but there is a reason for it. Value is subjective to a given user. My posts in this topic (not necessarily in reply to you directly) have plenty of facts, e.g. price, performance, etc. At the end the numbers are just that, numbers. You have to translate the numbers to real world meaning. Thats where the words like 'value' 'satisfaction' 'opinion' come in.
If you ask user to spend $100 for product A and $200 for product I, the user will ask, what do I get in return? You can thrown the numbers you used on him, but most user will come back in return and say, is the difference in numbers really WORTH (another word!) the $100 (or twice) the difference? Or maybe, since we are talking about computers, can I use the $100 and spend it on something else that provides much more value (here it is) that if I spend it on CPU? How about more memory, how about better graphics card, how about bigger monitor. How about not spending it at all on computers and taking your wife out for a nice dinner, she will see lots of value in that :-)
Good conversation, there is no right or wrong, just different people look at this differently. Intel is doing a decent job with pushing the performance and power savings, it is just not that important to me.
We all buy products at certain point in time. At this point in time, this is the best value. Few years ago when Fry's was offering crazy discounts on Intel CPU/motherboard bundles, Intel value was much better a well (not accounting for future upgradability prospects).
You misread my comment. My comment implies that I can buy newer/better motherboard and slower/older CPU and upgrade to newer/better CPU when the prices decrease. This is possible becase the newer motherboard supports the older CPUs and the CPUs actually decrease in price. With Intel motherboards it is not simply as easy. For one, the socket change and they are not backward compatible and for two as this article comfirms, the CPUs don't decrease in price as much.
1156 was current model at the time I bought it 2 years ago. Too bad it lasted only 1 generation of CPUs.
Now lets look at AMD3+ socket
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM3
You are correct that there is more caveats to this and the comparison is not as simple, the point though is that the value and savings go beyond just CPU when you start taking into account other components.
Of course assuming that you run at top performance :-). The real usage is not nearly that. Most computers are most of the time idle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power
There is definitely no discussion about which chip is faster and had more features. My point is, the AMD provides a really good value for the money. Sure you can outspend yourself to higher performance, but spending money is easy.The question is if the higher cost will reflect itself in higher productivity, satisfaction, usability, etc. In my opinion at today's performance levels 99% percent of people will not notice. I have a monster dual CPU 4 core each (8 with HT) Intel workstation I am writing this on which I use for daily hard code SW development and let me tell you, I don't see difference in may daily routine between this and my AMD based desktop which I use for similar tasks.
Sorry
Intel Core i5-3450 @ 3.10GHz - score 7052.
So yes, you pay for higher performance. The point is though to get best value. Once you count in the motheboard you have 2x cost for 1.4x performance.
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
AMD Phenom II X6 1045T - scrore 4999
Intel Xeon X3450 @ 2.67GHz - score 5223
X6 costs with MB $90.
You know that the difference between Phenon II X6 1045T and Core i5 3550 is less than 20W? Most people would not even notice. I certainly don't.
If by "cost the same" means you can get Intel with motherboard for $90 as you can get the AMD
http://www.microcenter.com/site/products/amd_bundles.aspx
then I would love to know where you source your components. Microcenter lists the i5 3450 at $145
http://www.microcenter.com/product/388579/Core_i5_3450_31GHz_LGA_1155_Processor
which is whooping $500 more than the AMD and doesn't even include the motherbord. Newegg has it $100 more.
Dont even get me started on upgrade path where Intel changes the socket so often that it is hard to keep up and you not only have to change the CPU but also the motherboard. My latest Intel (yes I have both :-) used LGA 1156 which was replaced with incompatible socket LGA 1155 soo after. That means that I cannot reap benefits of decreasing prices (if any such decrease would happen) without incurring additional cost of upgrading motherboard.
With AMD and AM2/AM3/AM3+ socket evolution I am able to purchase better motherboard and lower cost processor and then upgrade as prices decrease.
I buy and use AMD simply because it is the best value for the money
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_value_available.html
Microcenter or Fry's throws is also cheap motherboard. For $90 you can get top performing AMD CPU and motherboard. My 4 core AMD supports 3 way multiseat and runnning 4 X11 sessions on Ubuntu 12.04 just fine. Match that Intel.
Suprisingly few people ended up using Fedora, interesting. Me
Desktop: Mandrake -> Fedora -> Ubuntu -> Kubuntu (also tried OpenSuse/Suse/Arch/Knoppix/DSL/Puppy)
Server: Mandrake -> Fedora -> CentOS + RHEL
Embedded: Arch
I second this. Just get another drive and start from scratch on that drive. If you need any data from the old drive, do it on a isolated computer on different non standard OS (*BSD or *nix) to prevent cross contamination. I would also reapply BIOS in case they found a way to infect it.
didnt know that, will have to take a look at it, thanks
LVM is another possibility. If you can get SATA drives and plug them all in, you can then create LVM volume spanning all the drives and just simply copy the data over to one large volume. LVM will take care how to span it across the drives.
cp doesn't preserver exact timestamp. If you want to do rsync later, it will copy all files all over. Jusd do
rsync --dry-run --archive --stats --progress --whole-file --exclude "/lost+found" --delete-after /source/ /destination
which is reproducible and later on will copy only the newer files.
Not sure if this is problem of distro or grub, but once installed then it works on /dev/mapper RAID drives just fine including failover. But I still believe the setup is so complicated that it easily result in unbootable system
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/997414
I am not sure what was your point. We were not discussing tax revenue of goverments or how to balance budgets. We were dicussing take-home pay of people in IT industry. There the tax rates really matter. It is not unseen to have effective tax rates (after all the deductions, etc.) in US for upper middle class (where many of the IT people are) in 10-12% range based on information shared with my friends in US. Compared that to 40% rate my friends in Germany IT industry talk about.
How about you factor taxes in and then we talk :-) How much taxes do you pey on 100+/year after all deduction? Now take a look at effective/actual tax rate in US in this category.
Full disclose as well - Our family uses Linux on all our home computers for 5+ years for most things including productive office type work, school (both elementary and higher level education), multimedia and development. We have Windows for rare gaming. We use iPads for mobile/entertainment/gaming, etc. I use Linux and Windows at work. I have never consistently used OS X.
While I do agree that the impression is that Linux "can't compete with Windows in terms of "Productivity Software for Average People"" the reality is that the gap is getting much smaller all the time. Just one random example of Corel purchasing releasing Bible Pro and releasing it as AfterShot Pro establishing legitimate competitor to Apperture and Lighroom" and Valve confirming Steam for Linux (still vaporware).
In any case, my point was that if OEMs are squeezed by Microsoft from their established markets (Windows based PCs and HW) they may be pushed to position to make additional resources (money, marketing, support) available for non Microsoft solution. This may change the established impressions about such non MS systems. Using the "Live by the sword, die by the sword" analogy, the OEMs if pushed may become Microsoft undoing. Microsoft succeeded to avoid OEMs and challenge established vendors using their XBox and it assumes it can replicate the same success in tablet market.
Actually I believe this is too bad for MS, they chose wrong time. Now the OEMs actually have an options (Android, Ubuntu and co.) to deliver compeling use experience without MS. The one who can actually loose here is MS, since it can have hard time to compete with gazillions of generic lower priced offerings on the bottom end and iPad on the high end.
Add these PPAs
https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa
and you will get 4.9 as soon as it becomes available.