The whole point is that you can diss anything by reducing it to it's elements and ignoring the far more complex pattern they create. It's a stupid way to argue.
As for football, I know it's just a sport, but it's incredibly sophisticated. It can take a QB a year just to get familiar with the plays his offense runs and the kinds of defenses he might see. For example, look at the way Peyton Manning (a very intelligent fellow) played with the Colts last year, his rookie season, compared to this year.
Personally, I prefer a simpler game - soccer - but you must appreciate the complexity of football.
You've got two problems. One, you feel the need to point out your sarcasm is sarcasm, even though it is very heavy-handed and obvious. Two, you actually think NPR humour is intelligent.
By that reasoning, playing your piano is nothing more than poking a bunch of keys, and giving a speech is nothing more than stringing together a bunch of syllables. The reductionist fallacy is alive and well on Slashdot.
You can call it whatever you like. Totalitarian socialism, neo-Proudhonist Wankerism, I don't care. A socialist movement would vote itself into office. Communism is extreme, abrupt socialism that doesn't ask first before shitting all over a nation. Has it occured to you that perhaps socailism has changed since Karl Marx was hanging out at the British Library? Why is is that all of the governments the world knows as communist all act like the Chinese did? You are trying to pick a nit to make a minor philosophical point, while ignoring the fact that international communism as a political phenomena is not what you think it is.
I have read a great deal of Communist literature, and capitalist as well, bucko - very likely more than you. Who on earth ever claimed the United States was a democracy? It is sort of a Republic (not at all the same thing) combined with a fluid aristocracy of wealth and (how many Senators were not millionaires first?).
Of course China is not a communist country in the sense Marx envisioned. I am my father's son, but I am not exactly what he had in mind. So what do you call it, then, when the government owns all capital and means of production? What do you call it when the labor theory of value is strictly enforced through taxation and regulation of pay scales? It is not enough to call it Totalitarian. (Chinese) communism is totalitarian, but is much more than that. Your understanding of the ideological roots of Chinese communism is apparently attenuated by ignorance.
I think you don't quite understand what leftist and communism are. Leftism looks to the State as a sort of cure-all and control-all for everything. Leftism is atheistic and materialistic (in the sense of there being no 'transcendent' reality, or anything of value that is not economic in nature). Individual rights are suppressed in favor of 'community rights'. Equality is their God, since they are motivated primarily by envy. The great Leftist revolutions in history are the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution and revolution in China.
A communist is a leftist with a stronger ideological bent, one who will use any means necessary (almost always brutal force hence the guillotine, the Gulag, and the Logai prison camps in China) to restructure society to his liking. He is necessarily totalitarian, since a gradual democratic approach to his ideal never happens spontaneously.
It's certainly true, of course, that many of the Chinese leaders are no longer True Belivers, and some regions have been allowed economic reform of a sort. It is very limited, though. For example, compare the Chinese banking system, or notions of contract law to those in a free economy. They are a long, long way from the economic freedom of someplace like Singapore. But indeed, if they ever come close, they will be much less communist than simply totalitarian.
Yes, I have been to China and Hong Kong and, more importantly, have known many religious people from China. I am a physicist (used to work in HK) who now works in Washington, and there are many Chinese nationals working here who can attest to the repression of their government.
I don't think there's anything fuzzy or complicated about a country that rounds up harmless religious believers and puts them in forced labor camps. Your ignorance of the extent and severity of this is obviously willfull. You do a tremendous disservice to those who are unjustly imprisoned, some of them for decades. The Roman Catholic Church has several bishops who have imprisoned since the 70's. Numerous priests, nun, and lay people, and hundreds of Protestant Christians have been imprisoned and tortured for their faith. This continues up to the present moment, with no sign at all of abating.
There is incontrovertable evidence for this. The Chinese Government knows this. So why do you make excuses for them? Why do you apologize for this systematic policy?
Thank you for noticing the anti-communist tone of some of my posts. I happen to loathe communism. I have family members who died under communist regimes. There is no excuse for the mass slaughter of tens of millions of people. not to mention the incredible repression of so many more people.
I am aware that the world is not "black and white" as you say, and it's not like I would defend every action of my own government, or criticize every action of another. But one thing is clear - communism is one of the most destructive and deadly ideas ever to creep out of the leftist mind and poison the world.
CNN and other news agencies recently showed members of a group of meditators brutally thrown into police vans for the crime of gathering in a public square. There were tourists and foreign journalists standing right there, but the Chinese cops drug them, mostly old ladies and men, some by the hair and feet, and threw them into vans. News agencies followed up on the story and found that many were sentenced to long prison terms in forced labor camps. It is a fact.
The Chinese government, like an other totalitarian regime, cannot abide any organized activity that is not controlled directly by the State. No computer clubs, no Churches, no gatherings, no political parties - unless authorized and controlled by the State. This is directly contrary to most fundamental human rights.
You are absolutely, totally wrong. It is very much State policy to imprison those who practice "non-approved" religions. In fact, many think the round-ups of members of these "house churches" have become steadily worse through the 90's. Have you not seen the old people being drug by their hair into police vans for meditating in the public square? For pete's sake this was even on CNN! You are spreading lies and making apologies for systematic destruction of basic human rights.
Let me suggest that, next time you are in China, you try to lead a peaceful gathering of some students in a large punlic area in support of the right to practice your own religion, or vote for your own government. Then you'll see how enlightened and open the Chinese government is. It does no good at all to say "This is better than the industrial revolution". I mean, try holding them to a slightly higher standard than that.
Talk about having no clue. What the Hell is this True Communism? Have you ever seen one? Has a government ever employed one? NO! No more than a government could employ a True Capitalism. It's funny, you call your imaginary Communism "REAL", and you call the Real Communism (all the ones that have actually existed) imaginary. I think you are the troll.
Okay, then, smartypants. Why does Communism always end up being run by an evil dictator? I give you Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro.. do you want more? And all the other ones whose names we don't associate with widespread evil were just as bad on a smaller scale. A little invasion of Afghanistan here, a little rebellion in Angola and Ethiopia there... Go ahead, spring to the defense of Communism if you can name one benvolent regime that has employed it. It is not a "common misconception", it is an historical fact!
Well, in the US you can't get anything but time in Federal Prison if you a) Rob millions from a federal Reserve bank, b) steal from a military base, or c) steal anything from any other government organization. These are all owned "by the people". All such thefts would have been from "the community".
Do you read the Hong Kong newspapers? I read the Far Eastern Economic Review, which is their Wall Street Journal - A paper of record. They have published many stories about the extraordinary severity of the criminal justice system in China. Go to the library.
Even worse than their summary execution, arguably, is their vast sytem of Logai, which are miserable torture and prison camps. This is their version of the Gulag, for those of you who read Solzhenitsyn. People are sent there to be worked to death, so that we in the US can buy cheap Made in China shoes. You can be sent there for life if you do so much as go to Mass at a Church that is not State-sponsored. Do you want a source for that, too? Harry Wu, a high-profile Chinese emigre who tours the US showing his photos of the Logai and telling about his experiences there as a prisoner, where he saw men tortured and executed for such crimes as being a Catholic priest.
Be careful! All the armchair Marxists will get all over you if you diss Communism on Slashdot. "6o million people died under Stalin? Oh yeah? Well what about those students killed at Kent STATE?!?! Capitalism SUX!!"
Slashdot Mirror
A - "Yes, but just for the articles."
PS. What is "Buffy"?
(So true about GWAR)
As for football, I know it's just a sport, but it's incredibly sophisticated. It can take a QB a year just to get familiar with the plays his offense runs and the kinds of defenses he might see. For example, look at the way Peyton Manning (a very intelligent fellow) played with the Colts last year, his rookie season, compared to this year.
Personally, I prefer a simpler game - soccer - but you must appreciate the complexity of football.
You've got two problems. One, you feel the need to point out your sarcasm is sarcasm, even though it is very heavy-handed and obvious. Two, you actually think NPR humour is intelligent.
By that reasoning, playing your piano is nothing more than poking a bunch of keys, and giving a speech is nothing more than stringing together a bunch of syllables. The reductionist fallacy is alive and well on Slashdot.
Is this a flame? Does this make you a bastard?
What's with you and crack?
It's not formal training they want so much as passing the licencture (sp?) exams.
You can call it whatever you like. Totalitarian socialism, neo-Proudhonist Wankerism, I don't care. A socialist movement would vote itself into office. Communism is extreme, abrupt socialism that doesn't ask first before shitting all over a nation. Has it occured to you that perhaps socailism has changed since Karl Marx was hanging out at the British Library? Why is is that all of the governments the world knows as communist all act like the Chinese did? You are trying to pick a nit to make a minor philosophical point, while ignoring the fact that international communism as a political phenomena is not what you think it is.
Of course China is not a communist country in the sense Marx envisioned. I am my father's son, but I am not exactly what he had in mind. So what do you call it, then, when the government owns all capital and means of production? What do you call it when the labor theory of value is strictly enforced through taxation and regulation of pay scales? It is not enough to call it Totalitarian. (Chinese) communism is totalitarian, but is much more than that. Your understanding of the ideological roots of Chinese communism is apparently attenuated by ignorance.
A communist is a leftist with a stronger ideological bent, one who will use any means necessary (almost always brutal force hence the guillotine, the Gulag, and the Logai prison camps in China) to restructure society to his liking. He is necessarily totalitarian, since a gradual democratic approach to his ideal never happens spontaneously.
It's certainly true, of course, that many of the Chinese leaders are no longer True Belivers, and some regions have been allowed economic reform of a sort. It is very limited, though. For example, compare the Chinese banking system, or notions of contract law to those in a free economy. They are a long, long way from the economic freedom of someplace like Singapore. But indeed, if they ever come close, they will be much less communist than simply totalitarian.
I don't think there's anything fuzzy or complicated about a country that rounds up harmless religious believers and puts them in forced labor camps. Your ignorance of the extent and severity of this is obviously willfull. You do a tremendous disservice to those who are unjustly imprisoned, some of them for decades. The Roman Catholic Church has several bishops who have imprisoned since the 70's. Numerous priests, nun, and lay people, and hundreds of Protestant Christians have been imprisoned and tortured for their faith. This continues up to the present moment, with no sign at all of abating.
There is incontrovertable evidence for this. The Chinese Government knows this. So why do you make excuses for them? Why do you apologize for this systematic policy?
Thank you for noticing the anti-communist tone of some of my posts. I happen to loathe communism. I have family members who died under communist regimes. There is no excuse for the mass slaughter of tens of millions of people. not to mention the incredible repression of so many more people.
I am aware that the world is not "black and white" as you say, and it's not like I would defend every action of my own government, or criticize every action of another. But one thing is clear - communism is one of the most destructive and deadly ideas ever to creep out of the leftist mind and poison the world.
China is entirely leftist and communist. Are you visiting from a parallel universe, or are you just an ignoramus?
Well, I could say Catholic monasteries, too. But like kibbutzim, they are entirely voluntary, small, and not really autonomous regimes at all.
The Chinese government, like an other totalitarian regime, cannot abide any organized activity that is not controlled directly by the State. No computer clubs, no Churches, no gatherings, no political parties - unless authorized and controlled by the State. This is directly contrary to most fundamental human rights.
Sorry I mean Cultural Revolution, not Industrial Revolution. hehe.
Let me suggest that, next time you are in China, you try to lead a peaceful gathering of some students in a large punlic area in support of the right to practice your own religion, or vote for your own government. Then you'll see how enlightened and open the Chinese government is. It does no good at all to say "This is better than the industrial revolution". I mean, try holding them to a slightly higher standard than that.
You're very lucky there isn't a death penalty for stupid posts on Slashdot.
Talk about having no clue. What the Hell is this True Communism? Have you ever seen one? Has a government ever employed one? NO! No more than a government could employ a True Capitalism. It's funny, you call your imaginary Communism "REAL", and you call the Real Communism (all the ones that have actually existed) imaginary. I think you are the troll.
Okay, then, smartypants. Why does Communism always end up being run by an evil dictator? I give you Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro.. do you want more? And all the other ones whose names we don't associate with widespread evil were just as bad on a smaller scale. A little invasion of Afghanistan here, a little rebellion in Angola and Ethiopia there... Go ahead, spring to the defense of Communism if you can name one benvolent regime that has employed it. It is not a "common misconception", it is an historical fact!
Well, in the US you can't get anything but time in Federal Prison if you a) Rob millions from a federal Reserve bank, b) steal from a military base, or c) steal anything from any other government organization. These are all owned "by the people". All such thefts would have been from "the community".
Even worse than their summary execution, arguably, is their vast sytem of Logai, which are miserable torture and prison camps. This is their version of the Gulag, for those of you who read Solzhenitsyn. People are sent there to be worked to death, so that we in the US can buy cheap Made in China shoes. You can be sent there for life if you do so much as go to Mass at a Church that is not State-sponsored. Do you want a source for that, too? Harry Wu, a high-profile Chinese emigre who tours the US showing his photos of the Logai and telling about his experiences there as a prisoner, where he saw men tortured and executed for such crimes as being a Catholic priest.
I don't know if China does that, but that cannibal Communist dictator from Uganda.. Oh what's his name.. Oh It was Idi Amin. He was a bastard.
Be careful! All the armchair Marxists will get all over you if you diss Communism on Slashdot. "6o million people died under Stalin? Oh yeah? Well what about those students killed at Kent STATE?!?! Capitalism SUX!!"