Here on planet earth we have institutions called "newspapers." They report on useful or important information. I have quoted from one of them, a major one in its own country. Feel free to disregard the information at your peril, intelligent people are unlikely to do so.
Your opinion of me is of essentially no consequence to me. You might as well not waste your time typing such nonsense. That sort of thing often provides me with a chuckle.
Sorry, but no, what Snowden is doing isn't the same at all. He is more Benedict Arnold than anything if you are using a Colonial reference, although Kim Philby is a better fit. If you think Americans have lost rights then you are simply uninformed, or more likely misinformed. Snowden will almost certainly end up calling Russia his home after so badly screwing the US and its allies. You don't even realize how badly you've been taken. I can at least understand what is going on whereas you apparently don't. Too bad.
Indonesia's former top spy master has accused his own President of exaggerating the problem of phone tapping, saying attempts by intelligence agencies to snoop on national leaders were "normal".
And former spy agency chief Abdullah Mahmud Hendropriyono has also punctured claims by his Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa that Indonesia would never tap the phones of Australian politicians, insisting it was a routine part of "black intelligence"......
Mr Hendropriyono, the head of Badan Intelijen Negara (BIN) until 2004, has been thrust into the Australian political debate because of a TV interview he gave in 2004, in which he admitted to bugging Australian politicians......
In an interview with Fairfax Media, the former Indonesian army general has now amplified his 2004 comments, saying of Australia's attempts to listen to the conversations of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, the first lady and their confidantes: "For intelligence, it's normal."
He added that Indonesia not only had the capacity to tap the phones of Australians, but that intelligence agencies also had a responsibility to try it, "friend or foe"......
Asked if Indonesia could listen to Mr Abbott's phone, he said: "We have the ability to tap and to counter-tap". However, he also suggested that Australian counterintelligence would prevent this happening.
Mr Hendropriyono said human intelligence — what he called "white intelligence" — was standard practice in embassies worldwide, but that phone tapping was "the most reliable" way to confirm information gathered.
"Tapping and counter-tapping is quite common in the intelligence life, because it is one of their primary jobs," he said......
"Intelligence is judged like in sport, two boxers fighting in the ring. They punch and they counter-punch... They attack and they defend themselves, but it is in the ring — the ring of intelligence. If the officials, in this case politicians, interfere in the case, that is wrong. That is very wrong."
Now that it is in the political arena, the politicians have overreacted, he said.....
"I hope that both our leaders, SBY as well as Tony Abbott should not be too emotional... Please do not deteriorate [the relationship] because of a very small thing. This is a very technical thing."
Yes another US ally screwed by a Snowden leak. Can we assume at this point that we'll be hearing nothing about China, Russia, or Iran? Remember how Snowden claimed that he was an expert about Chinese activities and taught classes on them? I wonder what happened to that material?
There don't seem to be too many people replicating the actions of George Washington, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, nor Benjamin Franklin either.
Really? I suggest you read that, and that you follow the link to the actual article if you can. (The article was freely available and now appears to be behind a paywall, although it may just be a problem with my system.)
Note, in case you're slow, they all defied their rightful government of the time, and committed far worse actions than Snowden.
They formed a new country, the United States, to preserve the rights they had previously enjoyed, and correct wrongs of Parliament and the King. Snowden's actions are completely understandable if his loyalties lie with another country, as you could be implying, and appears to be the case.
You are free to mentally pigeonhole me in any manner that you care to. You should not, however, expect me to acquiesce when addressed with a categorization that I find disagreeable.
Since Congress was already informed by means of classified briefings and reports, then no, he didn't lie to Congress. It was Wyden that was playing games, and for some reason you don't acknowledge that. Your diktat doesn't change anything.
Snowden's passport was revoked before he left Hong Kong, and that didn't seem to stop him, did it? Snowden didn't actually enter into Russian territory until he was given asylum. It was mentioned at the time that it wouldn't necessarily stop him from continuing his journey.
Which flights out of Russia were grounded? I don't recall any. (And it was Russia, not the USSR.)
If you want to pursue fringe theories about BP and NASA, feel free, but I'm not interested.
This is clearly unacceptable and since the americans don't have any motivation to fix the problem, the rest of the world (or at least: countries in Europe, at this stage) will just find a way to bypass it.
And what makes this so funny is that Europe collectively engages in censorship, regulation, and intelligence gathering as well.
Snowden being another Philby, with the add-on of enhanced Soviet style political warfare, would explain matters quite well. Soviet tradecraft, of the sort taught to Russia's current leaders, was among the best. There are former Soviet bloc intelligence officers that believe that it is practically certain that Snowden was a Russian asset, if not at least a willing stooge. Not many years ago this would have resulted in probably more than one Hero of the Soviet Union, Orders of Lenin, and Red Banners being awarded. The damage to US intelligence is devastating, to allied agencies hardly less so, and the political repercussions will echo for years to come. It is a masterpiece of work. The Chekists must be rightfully bursting with pride.
And perhaps this was just a ruse, or maybe it did happen but it was cloaked by the more seasoned guidance Snowden received from his Russian lawyer - a man on the public council of the FSB and a crony of former KGB officer Putin.
Which secret surveillance are you referring to? The Dodd-Frank credit card data mining, Obamacare's many flavors (including from the IRS), the Chicagoland police, or NSA? And that is just warming up.... You have an embarrassment of riches there.
Slashdot Mirror
Wow, I've never even heard of it!
It's been mentioned on Slashdot before, although not real often.
IBM's Interest in Red Flag Linux
Red Flag Linux Distributor Joins OSDL
I would think the language barrier would tend to limit info going each way.
I'd heard of it, but hadn't seen much about it in the news, and I admit I probably never spent much time looking for info.
It turns out that Slashdot has had a couple of stories on it before, and it has been mentioned in some others. Examples (one posted by CdrTaco even):
IBM's Interest in Red Flag Linux
Red Flag Linux Distributor Joins OSDL
China has a home grown MIPs type CPU that they planned to use in some systems, and Red Flag was supposed to be one of the key OS suppliers.
I wonder what will happen to the current codebase?
Does China have its own Linux magazines? I would think so.
Here on planet earth we have institutions called "newspapers." They report on useful or important information. I have quoted from one of them, a major one in its own country. Feel free to disregard the information at your peril, intelligent people are unlikely to do so.
Your opinion of me is of essentially no consequence to me. You might as well not waste your time typing such nonsense. That sort of thing often provides me with a chuckle.
You seem to have missed the context. Note this statement that I was responding to:
Listening in on dialogues relating to trade disputes has capitalism written all over it.
Pretty much every major country is going to try to gather intelligence on matters important to it. Do you deny that?
His opinion is useful, yours, not so much.
So you think that the Indonesians don't do that sort of thing? Or the Chinese (communists)? Or the Soviets back in the day? LOL .....
Sorry, but no, what Snowden is doing isn't the same at all. He is more Benedict Arnold than anything if you are using a Colonial reference, although Kim Philby is a better fit. If you think Americans have lost rights then you are simply uninformed, or more likely misinformed. Snowden will almost certainly end up calling Russia his home after so badly screwing the US and its allies. You don't even realize how badly you've been taken. I can at least understand what is going on whereas you apparently don't. Too bad.
Phone tapping national leaders 'normal', says former Indonesian spy chief
Indonesia's former top spy master has accused his own President of exaggerating the problem of phone tapping, saying attempts by intelligence agencies to snoop on national leaders were "normal".
And former spy agency chief Abdullah Mahmud Hendropriyono has also punctured claims by his Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa that Indonesia would never tap the phones of Australian politicians, insisting it was a routine part of "black intelligence". .....
Mr Hendropriyono, the head of Badan Intelijen Negara (BIN) until 2004, has been thrust into the Australian political debate because of a TV interview he gave in 2004, in which he admitted to bugging Australian politicians. .....
In an interview with Fairfax Media, the former Indonesian army general has now amplified his 2004 comments, saying of Australia's attempts to listen to the conversations of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, the first lady and their confidantes: "For intelligence, it's normal."
He added that Indonesia not only had the capacity to tap the phones of Australians, but that intelligence agencies also had a responsibility to try it, "friend or foe". .....
Asked if Indonesia could listen to Mr Abbott's phone, he said: "We have the ability to tap and to counter-tap". However, he also suggested that Australian counterintelligence would prevent this happening.
Mr Hendropriyono said human intelligence — what he called "white intelligence" — was standard practice in embassies worldwide, but that phone tapping was "the most reliable" way to confirm information gathered.
"Tapping and counter-tapping is quite common in the intelligence life, because it is one of their primary jobs," he said. .....
"Intelligence is judged like in sport, two boxers fighting in the ring. They punch and they counter-punch... They attack and they defend themselves, but it is in the ring — the ring of intelligence. If the officials, in this case politicians, interfere in the case, that is wrong. That is very wrong."
Now that it is in the political arena, the politicians have overreacted, he said. ....
"I hope that both our leaders, SBY as well as Tony Abbott should not be too emotional... Please do not deteriorate [the relationship] because of a very small thing. This is a very technical thing."
Yes another US ally screwed by a Snowden leak. Can we assume at this point that we'll be hearing nothing about China, Russia, or Iran? Remember how Snowden claimed that he was an expert about Chinese activities and taught classes on them? I wonder what happened to that material?
There don't seem to be too many people replicating the actions of George Washington, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, nor Benjamin Franklin either.
Really? I suggest you read that, and that you follow the link to the actual article if you can. (The article was freely available and now appears to be behind a paywall, although it may just be a problem with my system.)
Note, in case you're slow, they all defied their rightful government of the time, and committed far worse actions than Snowden.
They formed a new country, the United States, to preserve the rights they had previously enjoyed, and correct wrongs of Parliament and the King. Snowden's actions are completely understandable if his loyalties lie with another country, as you could be implying, and appears to be the case.
Of course if you happen to be a "snake eater" with a taste for it ....
I fail to see why my rights as a US citizen are disregarded by US intelligence agencies operating overseas.
What makes you think that? That isn't what NSA says. Are you saying that is wrong? Do you have any evidence?
Frequently Asked Questions - Oversight
4. Are U.S. persons outside of the United States afforded protection?
Yes, the privacy rights of U.S. persons are protected regardless of their location.
--------
And then there's my family in the US, whose rights are violated every time they communicate with me, or I with them.
Another assertion. Any evidence?
Check the other thread.
You are free to mentally pigeonhole me in any manner that you care to. You should not, however, expect me to acquiesce when addressed with a categorization that I find disagreeable.
You still haven't answered my question, BTW.
Unsurprisingly, your question is a false choice. None apply.
Wyden's misconduct is clear to anyone open to the facts.
Since Congress was already informed by means of classified briefings and reports, then no, he didn't lie to Congress. It was Wyden that was playing games, and for some reason you don't acknowledge that. Your diktat doesn't change anything.
That wasn't really a good fix.
Wyden’s Stunt Was Congress at its Worst
I'm here speaking truth to power.
Snowden's passport was revoked before he left Hong Kong, and that didn't seem to stop him, did it? Snowden didn't actually enter into Russian territory until he was given asylum. It was mentioned at the time that it wouldn't necessarily stop him from continuing his journey.
Which flights out of Russia were grounded? I don't recall any. (And it was Russia, not the USSR.)
If you want to pursue fringe theories about BP and NASA, feel free, but I'm not interested.
It doesn't look like you "got it."
You're not a fan of the news I take it. You should try it some time.
This is clearly unacceptable and since the americans don't have any motivation to fix the problem, the rest of the world (or at least: countries in Europe, at this stage) will just find a way to bypass it.
And what makes this so funny is that Europe collectively engages in censorship, regulation, and intelligence gathering as well.
That's also why Finland wants an alternative pipe to mid-Europe and not be routed through Sweden.
Finland too has a secret intelligence service that taps the internet, wants to expand their powers, and model it after Sweden.
Supo wants expanded net surveillance powers
Snowden being another Philby, with the add-on of enhanced Soviet style political warfare, would explain matters quite well. Soviet tradecraft, of the sort taught to Russia's current leaders, was among the best. There are former Soviet bloc intelligence officers that believe that it is practically certain that Snowden was a Russian asset, if not at least a willing stooge. Not many years ago this would have resulted in probably more than one Hero of the Soviet Union, Orders of Lenin, and Red Banners being awarded. The damage to US intelligence is devastating, to allied agencies hardly less so, and the political repercussions will echo for years to come. It is a masterpiece of work. The Chekists must be rightfully bursting with pride.
And perhaps this was just a ruse, or maybe it did happen but it was cloaked by the more seasoned guidance Snowden received from his Russian lawyer - a man on the public council of the FSB and a crony of former KGB officer Putin.
Which secret surveillance are you referring to? The Dodd-Frank credit card data mining, Obamacare's many flavors (including from the IRS), the Chicagoland police, or NSA? And that is just warming up.... You have an embarrassment of riches there.
The NSA has a history of not wanting to say anything, or be in the papers. That is different than lying or misdirection.
If you don't want to believe, then why ask?