So what? It's only irrelevant if I'm wrong, and your opinions are equally irrelevant. Organized crime isn't that powerful, and they rely on civil order to protect them as much as they exploit it to threaten others. Stripped of social controls they could easily face extermination if they poked their head above ground. People have banded together before to put an end to various threats to the community.
The Communists were not organized crime but a revolutionary social-political movement It Irgun was only one a several factions.
It is unlikely that society in a major country would completely collapse under anything but a major nuclear exchange or something on the order of the Black Death or worse. Major urban centers would be destroyed, but there is a vast network of governments and residual capability in rural areas that would survive to varying degrees.
So you think there is no way to inspect the facilities? The provisions they have on hand? There aren't any other ways to verify they are building what they claim? I'm not going to agree with that. There are plenty of other commercial activities which developers build facilities for clients. I'm not sure why you think this is all that different.
There is something of a gap between having a flashlight and fire extinguisher on hand versus having a pre-built and provisioned shelter.
A nuclear war isn't the end of the world. Enver Hoxha wasn't using a bunker to protect him from fallout.
So might we summarize that you think there really isn't anything doable collectively in terms of emergency preparation? What objection have you raised that couldn't be raised in other contexts? Why pay for a fire department, they might not come and simply laugh as you die in a fire? Why pay for a police department, they might not come, or might even kill you. On and on.
I don't think it is so much a stupid idea as it isn't suitable for everyone. There seem to be a lot of people on Slashdot that prefer to do nothing, and complain bitterly while casting aspersions against those that do prepare.
I doubt you've lived through an emergency of the scope and duration contemplated for these shelters.
Not building shelters will be obvious fraud and will be discovered before a crisis. Overbooking is likely to be discovered as well given the sums involved.
Either of those means jail time before any crisis.
I rather doubt there are more maintenance staff than in-coming people. Good grief. How many people do you think it takes to keep the lights on in a warehouse?
Let me guess - you never have and never will plan for any emergency? You'll just steal from the neighbor? (killing them if you think it's necessary?)
You can't think of any other way this would work out? Where did you pick up your values from? They seem to be somewhere between defective and foul.
The 10 MT warheads were all decommissioned decades ago. A typical warhead today is about 250KT, or 40 fold less powerful.
The 10MT size is for planning purposes. Typical US warheads are smaller, but China reportedly still uses warheads in the 3-5MT range, and the Russians in the 1MT+ range. A growing number of nations fundamentally hostile to the US are obtaining nuclear arms. The threat of nuclear terrorism is likely to grow.
I think your preparations are wise, and should help in many potential circumstances. Good luck.
There is a meaningful difference between paying to have physical preparations made before a disaster, and receiving a check in the mail. Surely you can see that? They aren't waiting to start construction until after disaster hits.
Alternatively, you can die a bit later than the rest of humanity. Like a rat in a hole. But "preppers" obviously do not have the intelligence to think that far, so they fall for this scam.
The danger from fallout is extremely high initially, but drops off quickly over a couple of weeks. Having the supplies to remain in shelter, and then to begin working to repair and rebuild is quite useful.
Are you disparaging this because you have made no preparation yourself and prefer to die? Or did you simply not think that far ahead?
Since Iran will probably have the bomb in a few years, and already has missiles that can reach Germany, it might be something to think about. Since Russia has already threatened to nuke Denmark's navy perhaps you might be caught in that fallout. If Turkey and Saudi Arabia pursue the bomb after Iran gets one things will be more complicated. Of course Turkey getting the bomb might have repercussions for Germany and its large Turkish population, and the growing number of Islamic refugees. I think you will live in some very interesting times in the coming years.
If you are a "prepper" and think that you can wait out a siege in your bomb shelter or bunker or whatever, you are sadly mistaken. There are more of them/us than there are of you, and if you are especially one of the people who are already separating yourself from general society because you think you're better, you're hosed.
Good luck. You'll need it.
I don't see anything in there about how you will avoid radiation poisoning and die during the crucial 2-3 weeks that radioactive fallout is most dangerous. Any thoughts about that?
Buying a space in the bunker is little different. You are prepaying for construction and preparation before trouble strikes. The payout is always waiting for you, you only have to show up to collect. Nobody really has to do anything else like write a check to send through the mail.
The military has its own bunkers, and there isn't enough military to control the country if civil order breaks down throughout the country.
At worst you are making an argument for building your own private shelter although one gets the sense that most people here actually oppose shelter for anyone.
My plan is to find a Home Depot next to a grocery store and move in there.
Good idea. There's no way those will be noticed in a civilization changing emergency.
Most supermarkets only have a couple of days of food on-hand and are cleaned out of key good just before a major weather event such as a hurricane or blizzard.
The only way to have enough emergency supplies is to stock up ahead of time.
Just think of how a number of major cities looked after just 1 citizen was shot dead when it was claimed to be unjust. Now imagine that 1000x worse. Good luck with being unprepared.
Or he'll bilk lots of people out of tons of money and then retire as the company goes down in flames.
Could you expand on that? How do you think he will "bilk" people? By not building the shelters? Some other fraud? Or are you worried that he will build the shelters, people will buy them, and there won't be a nuclear war?
I take it your preference is for all of humanity to die should there be a nuclear war?
Do you have a leg to stand on here, or just nonsense claims?
What are the odds that ALL of the on-site maintenance people share your character flaws? What are the odds that they can or do control all entrances? What makes you think their families can even get there?
The idea that you can make it to the shelter is ridiculous. If by some chance we need one, we won't have enough notice to do more than move 50 miles.
50 miles is well beyond the lethal radius of overpressure of a 10 megaton warhead. Make it that far and you're well on your way to the shelter.
50 miles goes by pretty quick in a helicopter. I hear the wealthy can afford helicopters.
The only people that could possibly be saved by the these luxury shelters are those that work there.
"possibly"? Are you sure that word means what you think it means?
Do you think the "bolt from the blue" is the most likely scenario for war, let alone nuclear war? No building tensions? Wasn't that idea pooh poohed in Wargames as showing it was unlikely the Soviets were actually attacking?
Ever heard about the Geneva Convention? Here's an excerpt:.....
I have both heard of it, and have a reasonably good understanding of it. I doubt you would quote that section if you shared that understanding.
That section you quote addresses the issue of prisoners of war who may be charged with offenses while being detained. If a PoW being detained as a participant in a conflict faced a trial over a war crime and was found not guilty that prisoner would continue to be held as a PoW, they wouldn't be released due to being found not guilty of a war crime. Their status as a member of the enemy forces alone is sufficient to continue detaining them.
Slashdot Mirror
So what? Your doubts are irrelevant.
So what? It's only irrelevant if I'm wrong, and your opinions are equally irrelevant. Organized crime isn't that powerful, and they rely on civil order to protect them as much as they exploit it to threaten others. Stripped of social controls they could easily face extermination if they poked their head above ground. People have banded together before to put an end to various threats to the community.
The Communists were not organized crime but a revolutionary social-political movement It Irgun was only one a several factions.
It is unlikely that society in a major country would completely collapse under anything but a major nuclear exchange or something on the order of the Black Death or worse. Major urban centers would be destroyed, but there is a vast network of governments and residual capability in rural areas that would survive to varying degrees.
So you think there is no way to inspect the facilities? The provisions they have on hand? There aren't any other ways to verify they are building what they claim? I'm not going to agree with that. There are plenty of other commercial activities which developers build facilities for clients. I'm not sure why you think this is all that different.
There is something of a gap between having a flashlight and fire extinguisher on hand versus having a pre-built and provisioned shelter.
A nuclear war isn't the end of the world. Enver Hoxha wasn't using a bunker to protect him from fallout.
So might we summarize that you think there really isn't anything doable collectively in terms of emergency preparation? What objection have you raised that couldn't be raised in other contexts? Why pay for a fire department, they might not come and simply laugh as you die in a fire? Why pay for a police department, they might not come, or might even kill you. On and on.
I don't think it is so much a stupid idea as it isn't suitable for everyone. There seem to be a lot of people on Slashdot that prefer to do nothing, and complain bitterly while casting aspersions against those that do prepare.
I doubt you've lived through an emergency of the scope and duration contemplated for these shelters.
How about if I meet you half way and concede that some assholes find me irritating?
Go look at the moderation of your post. Was it +5 Funny? No, it was +5 Insightful. It seems the moderators didn't get your "joke".
Remember my comment about "rhetoric"? Apply it to your humor. Maybe you should try adding tags or something.
Not building shelters will be obvious fraud and will be discovered before a crisis. Overbooking is likely to be discovered as well given the sums involved.
Either of those means jail time before any crisis.
I doubt organized crime will make it that far, but it is interesting to see you pulling for them.
I rather doubt there are more maintenance staff than in-coming people. Good grief. How many people do you think it takes to keep the lights on in a warehouse?
Let me guess - you never have and never will plan for any emergency? You'll just steal from the neighbor? (killing them if you think it's necessary?)
You can't think of any other way this would work out? Where did you pick up your values from? They seem to be somewhere between defective and foul.
How many of those locals will survive radiation poisoning? Do the people in the complex have no armory?
Your basic assumption is that those that prepare are all screwed, and those that don't will do just fine, probably by eating the rich?
You don't see any flaws to that plan? No issues with fallout and radiation sickness?
And what might that be? If he is going to make big money off of it you would think it would at least appear to be useful.
I'll let you in on a little secret: the original post was a load of bull.
And how do you think those people that didn't make provisions will know to be there, and make it past the people that did?
Just because you despise them doesn't mean their plan will fail.
The 10 MT warheads were all decommissioned decades ago. A typical warhead today is about 250KT, or 40 fold less powerful.
The 10MT size is for planning purposes. Typical US warheads are smaller, but China reportedly still uses warheads in the 3-5MT range, and the Russians in the 1MT+ range. A growing number of nations fundamentally hostile to the US are obtaining nuclear arms. The threat of nuclear terrorism is likely to grow.
I think your preparations are wise, and should help in many potential circumstances. Good luck.
There is a meaningful difference between paying to have physical preparations made before a disaster, and receiving a check in the mail. Surely you can see that? They aren't waiting to start construction until after disaster hits.
Alternatively, you can die a bit later than the rest of humanity. Like a rat in a hole. But "preppers" obviously do not have the intelligence to think that far, so they fall for this scam.
The danger from fallout is extremely high initially, but drops off quickly over a couple of weeks. Having the supplies to remain in shelter, and then to begin working to repair and rebuild is quite useful.
Are you disparaging this because you have made no preparation yourself and prefer to die? Or did you simply not think that far ahead?
Since Iran will probably have the bomb in a few years, and already has missiles that can reach Germany, it might be something to think about. Since Russia has already threatened to nuke Denmark's navy perhaps you might be caught in that fallout. If Turkey and Saudi Arabia pursue the bomb after Iran gets one things will be more complicated. Of course Turkey getting the bomb might have repercussions for Germany and its large Turkish population, and the growing number of Islamic refugees. I think you will live in some very interesting times in the coming years.
If you are a "prepper" and think that you can wait out a siege in your bomb shelter or bunker or whatever, you are sadly mistaken. There are more of them/us than there are of you, and if you are especially one of the people who are already separating yourself from general society because you think you're better, you're hosed.
Good luck. You'll need it.
I don't see anything in there about how you will avoid radiation poisoning and die during the crucial 2-3 weeks that radioactive fallout is most dangerous. Any thoughts about that?
Not everyone equals your trustworthiness.
Buying a space in the bunker is little different. You are prepaying for construction and preparation before trouble strikes. The payout is always waiting for you, you only have to show up to collect. Nobody really has to do anything else like write a check to send through the mail.
The military has its own bunkers, and there isn't enough military to control the country if civil order breaks down throughout the country.
At worst you are making an argument for building your own private shelter although one gets the sense that most people here actually oppose shelter for anyone.
The idea that you can make it to the shelter is ridiculous. If by some chance we need one, we won't have enough notice to do more than move 50 miles
Even if you could make it there -- what are the odds that the on-site maintenance people are even going to let you in, rather than their own families?
What do you think the odds of those "on-site maintenance people" surviving that treachery? What of their families and friends?\\
Are you quite certain that they could get away with it?
My plan is to find a Home Depot next to a grocery store and move in there.
Good idea. There's no way those will be noticed in a civilization changing emergency.
Most supermarkets only have a couple of days of food on-hand and are cleaned out of key good just before a major weather event such as a hurricane or blizzard.
The only way to have enough emergency supplies is to stock up ahead of time.
Just think of how a number of major cities looked after just 1 citizen was shot dead when it was claimed to be unjust. Now imagine that 1000x worse. Good luck with being unprepared.
Gee, you seem to be saying insurance is a worthless purchase.
Or he'll bilk lots of people out of tons of money and then retire as the company goes down in flames.
Could you expand on that? How do you think he will "bilk" people? By not building the shelters? Some other fraud? Or are you worried that he will build the shelters, people will buy them, and there won't be a nuclear war?
I take it your preference is for all of humanity to die should there be a nuclear war?
Do you have a leg to stand on here, or just nonsense claims?
What are the odds that ALL of the on-site maintenance people share your character flaws? What are the odds that they can or do control all entrances? What makes you think their families can even get there?
The idea that you can make it to the shelter is ridiculous. If by some chance we need one, we won't have enough notice to do more than move 50 miles.
50 miles is well beyond the lethal radius of overpressure of a 10 megaton warhead. Make it that far and you're well on your way to the shelter.
50 miles goes by pretty quick in a helicopter. I hear the wealthy can afford helicopters.
The only people that could possibly be saved by the these luxury shelters are those that work there.
"possibly"? Are you sure that word means what you think it means?
Do you think the "bolt from the blue" is the most likely scenario for war, let alone nuclear war? No building tensions? Wasn't that idea pooh poohed in Wargames as showing it was unlikely the Soviets were actually attacking?
Ever heard about the Geneva Convention?
Here's an excerpt:.....
I have both heard of it, and have a reasonably good understanding of it. I doubt you would quote that section if you shared that understanding.
That section you quote addresses the issue of prisoners of war who may be charged with offenses while being detained. If a PoW being detained as a participant in a conflict faced a trial over a war crime and was found not guilty that prisoner would continue to be held as a PoW, they wouldn't be released due to being found not guilty of a war crime. Their status as a member of the enemy forces alone is sufficient to continue detaining them.