Other's wrongs necessitates keeping an eye on them.
How do you think WW 2 would have gone if nobody kept watch on fascist Germany and Imperial Japan? How do you think the Cold War would have gone if nobody kept watch on the Soviet Union? They were all brutal expansionist mass-murdering regimes that invaded and took the lands of others, often killing massive numbers of them either in the process, or in purges after the fact. If you think it was wrong to spy on them your beliefs are folly.
Are you making the mistake of thinking that personal morality is the correct model for nations to behave by in all respects and circumstances?
It's the British that are saying this, not the Americans. Will you be retooling your rant to fit the facts? (Not even going to try asking for informed commentary.)
Because he is the one that arrogantly ignored the democratic process, stole a massive store of intelligence documents, incompetently encrypted them, and made them available for friend and foe alike, and then fled to be among Americas adversaries. Surely you must see some room for assigning culpability to him?
What about "the actions of the NSA"?
The NSA didn't make the documents available to China and Russia. Snowden did.
Running a massive illegal spying operation on the American people,
You mean the copies of the phone records of many, but not all, Americans? That was repeatedly authorized, including by courts. The fact that there is a single recent court decision against it doesn't change that, and may just mean more trips through the courts where it will probably be upheld in the end.
lying about it in sworn congressional testimony,
That isn't actually true either. Congress gets briefed on those programs behind closed doors. What you are referring to is actually the actions of a reckless Senator who was grandstanding in open session.
and having no effective confidential channel for whistleblowers,
CONGRESS. Snowden could have gone to CONGRESS. He didn't. Snowden is culpable.
they deserve far more blame for this than Snowden does.
We've dealt with this - the entire blame is Snowden's.
Maybe you should reread that quote since you don't seem to agree with what it states.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin
It seems to me that you haven't thought about these issues seriously in light of the activities of Washington and Franklin as intelligence masters during the Revolutionary War, and more generally how civil liberties are expressed in peace versus wartime.
So you think that Russia and China are the poster children for the innocent, young, and naïve? Do you think their hearts were broken by this affair?
Did you know that until the 1990s Russia was the major part of a communist state, and China still is? Between the they managed to kill about 80,000,000 of their own citizens, and were the very models of repression and mass murder?
So you really haven't been paying attention to this epic then? It's news to you that Snowden stole tens of thousands of intelligence documents from allied intelligence agencies (UK, CA, AU, NZ, others) along with 1,700,000 NSA files and something like 800,000 DoD files? What on earth do you think all of those stories on Slashdot have been about when it comes to documents stolen and leaked by Snowden about intelligence operations by the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand?
You aren't aware that Russia and China have been working together?
Is this newly developed lack of information "strategic" in its nature?
GCHQ and the UK have been crying wolf about encryption for years. Now after all their bleating about how they can't crack encryption, they're claiming the Russians and Chinese have done it, but they couldn't?
Maybe they had help and this is only a delayed announcement to throw people off? What was Snowden doing while he stayed at the Russian embassy in Hong Kong? Why did they throw him a birthday party there? What was really on the laptops he took with him?
The true Bullshit is to believe that Snowden's actions were for our benefit.
Too bad strong encryption wasn't available to him -- was whatever "weak encryption" he used known to the NSA as being vulnerable?
Your post is bullshit. Snowden had AES available to him, the same encryption method authorized to encrypt TOP SECRET information for the US government. NSA wouldn't let it be used if there was a meaningful weakness for protecting TOP SECRET information.
You're looking in the wrong direction. You're looking at technology when you should be looking at Snowden's choices, among them: What was really on those laptops claimed to be "empty"? Snowden was booted from the CIA for crossing the line with his computer access and for changes in his personality. He lied and cheated to get his job at NSA. He lied while he was at NSA. When did the lying stop.... if it did?
Indeed. Does the NSA even have details of CIA operatives? Surely not, unless the NSA is spying on the CIA? In which case, WTF?
Reportedly Snowden was booted from the CIA for exceeding his authority to access systems there too, as well as his personality displaying some troubling signs. What do you think he walked out of there with even if he didn't get anything about CIA at NSA?
LOL.... no, I didn't miss that. Did they cut off the shipments? Yes. The "presence of international observers" would report the same thing - they cut off shipments. How do you think that makes a difference? "It was reported today that Russia cut off shipments of gas to Europe. International observers confirm the cut off." Yep, they really weren't getting gas. Was there doubt? We people without gas less cold because of the international observers?
There were diplomatic efforts to resolve the situation, but I don't see anything about those observers "mediating" the crisis.
Your defense of Putin's cutoff - is that a politically motivated decision? Or just a job? Or maybe an adverse reaction to being called?
What sometimes toubles me is the we (read the USA), then attribute henious, undemocratic, autocratic, dictatorial, tyrannical, despotic behaoiurs to "those other regimes" around the world.
Tapping the phone of a foreign leader doesn't really fall into those behaviors.
But since there seems to be some confusion on your part regarding those behaviors versus the conduct of the United States, why don't you track down and watch The Soviet Story. Its very informative, and you would probably benefit from it.... immensely. Much of it is posted on Youtube.
Russia shut off all gas supplies to Europe through Ukraine on Wednesday — leaving more than a dozen countries scrambling to cope during a winter cold snap. Prime Minister Vladimir Putin publicly endorsed the move and urged that international observers be brought into the energy dispute.....
As of Wednesday, nations including Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Greece, Italy, Macedonia, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia and Turkey all reported a halt in Russian gas shipments. Others — including Austria, France, Germany, Hungary and Poland — reported substantial drops in supplies.
You may recall that Putin is a former KGB officer. It was his job to be a bastard. He doesn't seem to be able to fully shake the habit.
In wider society, maybe. On Slashdot I'm not so sure. There are a number of people here that claim to have worked for the US government that have basically hostile views towards it, or have fringe politics or belief that would leave them vulnerable. You also shouldn't discount the second and third order effects of that information leaking. The person it was gathered about may not be of interest, but other people mentioned in the investigation reports may be. At the end of the day a completed background investigation is a job requirement, not necessarily a marker for patriotism or even good sense.
You might have missed a few news stories. Among other things Snowden stole passwords from other employees ("social engineering") and forged digital certificates.
Last week NSA Director Keith Alexander told the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence that Snowden fabricated digital keys that gave him access to areas way above his clearance as a low-level contractor and systems administrator.
And of course if you missed that you have probably missed how badly Snowden screwed Australia as well.
China and EVERYBODY are chummy - they don't care who you are and what you do so long as you have cash, a UN vote, fishing rights, or something to dig up.
... dig up.... or take. China's neighbors aren't very happy about China's attitudes about territory: What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine.
Whose to say that Snowden's revelations didn't make this possible? He worked pretty hard to bypass the security on that network and that experience is no doubt highly valuable to various organizations and nations,... and he does have unaccounted for time in Hong Kong (minus the time he spent at the Russian Embassy). (Have you noticed that China and Russia are pretty chummy these days?) I'm pretty sure we have not seen the full contents of those 1,700,000 NSA documents and 800,000 DoD documents. Do you suppose there might be things there on cyber security, hacking, and other interesting topics? And I'm still waiting to see one of those emails he allegedly sent to complain that everything around him was illegal, unconstitutional, and fattening. (Funny how those don't seem to be making it to the newspapers.)
Well, at least those of you that wanted to be spied on by China might actually get your wish.
The SF86 data is essentially designed to track and identify every aspect of federal employees lives and backgrounds which would make them a target of extortion or blackmail by foreign intelligence.
Well, I guess there is a good chance that over the next few years we'll be able to see the practical outcome for more than a few nitwits here that have loudly proclaimed they would rather be spied on by China than the US government. ( I'll bet they have your credit card info and bank accounts too. ) Good luck with that. After all, what could possibly go wrong?
That would seem pretty unlikely to anyone that thinks about it since I have taken a pretty consistent stand against Russian aggression and Soviet Communism. By the same token we could ask the same thing about you. I don't think the case there is as clear, is it?
After all, he's making American patriotism look bad by associating it with authoritarianism.
Ah yes, the infamous "authoritarianism" of limited government. Or are you confusing the ability of a free people to defend themselves with authoritarianism? That seems to be a likely source of confusion, no doubt there are others.
Holy crap, that guy. Cold fjord shows up to every Snowden/Manning/Wikileaks story like an unwanted sex offender to a family Christmas dinner.
There are two lies in your post. First, I don't show up to comment on every Snowden/Manning/Wikileaks story. Here are some recent ones. Please point out where I comment in these stories? I didn't.
Second, if we are going to use a "Christmas dinner" metaphor, what I am is the educated, informed Uncle that is trying to gently persuade the cousin holding crank views that he doesn't understand what he is talking about, and should maybe try to get information from better sources. You apparently are one of "those" cousins.
Of course I'm not surprised by your attack. When you can't attack the facts then attack the man, right? I'm sure there is a name for that. Supposedly that sort of thing is held in contempt on Slashdot. Do you often do contemptible things?
I think it is pretty likely that you're the same person that has made repeated attacks against me in various stories that I didn't even post in. That makes me think I may not be posting enough. You'll have only yourself to blame if I start posting more often. Maybe you should buy some Preparation-H ahead of time to prepare yourself.
And suddenly extremely low-cost proxy services would be offered, so that people wouldn't have to register with the government to see pictures of naked people.
And just as suddenly those extremly low-cost proxy serviced might be blocked?
Slashdot Mirror
Other's wrongs necessitates keeping an eye on them.
How do you think WW 2 would have gone if nobody kept watch on fascist Germany and Imperial Japan? How do you think the Cold War would have gone if nobody kept watch on the Soviet Union? They were all brutal expansionist mass-murdering regimes that invaded and took the lands of others, often killing massive numbers of them either in the process, or in purges after the fact. If you think it was wrong to spy on them your beliefs are folly.
Are you making the mistake of thinking that personal morality is the correct model for nations to behave by in all respects and circumstances?
The Black Book of Communism
It's the British that are saying this, not the Americans. Will you be retooling your rant to fit the facts? (Not even going to try asking for informed commentary.)
Why is all the blame heaped on Snowden?
Because he is the one that arrogantly ignored the democratic process, stole a massive store of intelligence documents, incompetently encrypted them, and made them available for friend and foe alike, and then fled to be among Americas adversaries. Surely you must see some room for assigning culpability to him?
What about "the actions of the NSA"?
The NSA didn't make the documents available to China and Russia. Snowden did.
Running a massive illegal spying operation on the American people,
You mean the copies of the phone records of many, but not all, Americans? That was repeatedly authorized, including by courts. The fact that there is a single recent court decision against it doesn't change that, and may just mean more trips through the courts where it will probably be upheld in the end.
lying about it in sworn congressional testimony,
That isn't actually true either. Congress gets briefed on those programs behind closed doors. What you are referring to is actually the actions of a reckless Senator who was grandstanding in open session.
and having no effective confidential channel for whistleblowers,
CONGRESS. Snowden could have gone to CONGRESS. He didn't. Snowden is culpable.
they deserve far more blame for this than Snowden does.
We've dealt with this - the entire blame is Snowden's.
Maybe you should reread that quote since you don't seem to agree with what it states.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin
It seems to me that you haven't thought about these issues seriously in light of the activities of Washington and Franklin as intelligence masters during the Revolutionary War, and more generally how civil liberties are expressed in peace versus wartime.
So you think that Russia and China are the poster children for the innocent, young, and naïve? Do you think their hearts were broken by this affair?
Did you know that until the 1990s Russia was the major part of a communist state, and China still is? Between the they managed to kill about 80,000,000 of their own citizens, and were the very models of repression and mass murder?
So you really haven't been paying attention to this epic then? It's news to you that Snowden stole tens of thousands of intelligence documents from allied intelligence agencies (UK, CA, AU, NZ, others) along with 1,700,000 NSA files and something like 800,000 DoD files? What on earth do you think all of those stories on Slashdot have been about when it comes to documents stolen and leaked by Snowden about intelligence operations by the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand?
You aren't aware that Russia and China have been working together?
Is this newly developed lack of information "strategic" in its nature?
They are both massive disasters, and much of the Slashdot crowd cheers for at least one or both of the outcomes.
This doesn't bode well for the future.
GCHQ and the UK have been crying wolf about encryption for years. Now after all their bleating about how they can't crack encryption, they're claiming the Russians and Chinese have done it, but they couldn't?
Maybe they had help and this is only a delayed announcement to throw people off? What was Snowden doing while he stayed at the Russian embassy in Hong Kong? Why did they throw him a birthday party there? What was really on the laptops he took with him?
The true Bullshit is to believe that Snowden's actions were for our benefit.
Too bad strong encryption wasn't available to him -- was whatever "weak encryption" he used known to the NSA as being vulnerable?
Your post is bullshit. Snowden had AES available to him, the same encryption method authorized to encrypt TOP SECRET information for the US government. NSA wouldn't let it be used if there was a meaningful weakness for protecting TOP SECRET information.
You're looking in the wrong direction. You're looking at technology when you should be looking at Snowden's choices, among them: What was really on those laptops claimed to be "empty"? Snowden was booted from the CIA for crossing the line with his computer access and for changes in his personality. He lied and cheated to get his job at NSA. He lied while he was at NSA. When did the lying stop .... if it did?
Indeed. Does the NSA even have details of CIA operatives? Surely not, unless the NSA is spying on the CIA? In which case, WTF?
Reportedly Snowden was booted from the CIA for exceeding his authority to access systems there too, as well as his personality displaying some troubling signs. What do you think he walked out of there with even if he didn't get anything about CIA at NSA?
LOL .... no, I didn't miss that. Did they cut off the shipments? Yes. The "presence of international observers" would report the same thing - they cut off shipments. How do you think that makes a difference? "It was reported today that Russia cut off shipments of gas to Europe. International observers confirm the cut off." Yep, they really weren't getting gas. Was there doubt? We people without gas less cold because of the international observers?
There were diplomatic efforts to resolve the situation, but I don't see anything about those observers "mediating" the crisis.
Your defense of Putin's cutoff - is that a politically motivated decision? Or just a job? Or maybe an adverse reaction to being called?
What sometimes toubles me is the we (read the USA), then attribute henious, undemocratic, autocratic, dictatorial, tyrannical, despotic behaoiurs to "those other regimes" around the world.
Tapping the phone of a foreign leader doesn't really fall into those behaviors.
But since there seems to be some confusion on your part regarding those behaviors versus the conduct of the United States, why don't you track down and watch The Soviet Story. Its very informative, and you would probably benefit from it .... immensely. Much of it is posted on Youtube.
Here is the trailer.
If?
Europeans shiver as Russia cuts gas shipments - updated 1/7/2009
Russia shut off all gas supplies to Europe through Ukraine on Wednesday — leaving more than a dozen countries scrambling to cope during a winter cold snap. Prime Minister Vladimir Putin publicly endorsed the move and urged that international observers be brought into the energy dispute. ....
As of Wednesday, nations including Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Greece, Italy, Macedonia, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia and Turkey all reported a halt in Russian gas shipments. Others — including Austria, France, Germany, Hungary and Poland — reported substantial drops in supplies.
You may recall that Putin is a former KGB officer. It was his job to be a bastard. He doesn't seem to be able to fully shake the habit.
Angela Merkel's phone was being listened in on by FIVE foreign powers
If your spooks aren't tapping Merkel, you should fire them really
In wider society, maybe. On Slashdot I'm not so sure. There are a number of people here that claim to have worked for the US government that have basically hostile views towards it, or have fringe politics or belief that would leave them vulnerable. You also shouldn't discount the second and third order effects of that information leaking. The person it was gathered about may not be of interest, but other people mentioned in the investigation reports may be. At the end of the day a completed background investigation is a job requirement, not necessarily a marker for patriotism or even good sense.
You might have missed a few news stories. Among other things Snowden stole passwords from other employees ("social engineering") and forged digital certificates.
FORMER US OFFICIAL: The NSA Thinks Edward Snowden Copied 'Almost Everything That Place Does'
Last week NSA Director Keith Alexander told the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence that Snowden fabricated digital keys that gave him access to areas way above his clearance as a low-level contractor and systems administrator.
And of course if you missed that you have probably missed how badly Snowden screwed Australia as well.
China and EVERYBODY are chummy - they don't care who you are and what you do so long as you have cash, a UN vote, fishing rights, or something to dig up.
... dig up .... or take. China's neighbors aren't very happy about China's attitudes about territory: What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine.
Whose to say that Snowden's revelations didn't make this possible? He worked pretty hard to bypass the security on that network and that experience is no doubt highly valuable to various organizations and nations, ... and he does have unaccounted for time in Hong Kong (minus the time he spent at the Russian Embassy). (Have you noticed that China and Russia are pretty chummy these days?) I'm pretty sure we have not seen the full contents of those 1,700,000 NSA documents and 800,000 DoD documents. Do you suppose there might be things there on cyber security, hacking, and other interesting topics? And I'm still waiting to see one of those emails he allegedly sent to complain that everything around him was illegal, unconstitutional, and fattening. (Funny how those don't seem to be making it to the newspapers.)
Well, at least those of you that wanted to be spied on by China might actually get your wish.
The SF86 data is essentially designed to track and identify every aspect of federal employees lives and backgrounds which would make them a target of extortion or blackmail by foreign intelligence.
Well, I guess there is a good chance that over the next few years we'll be able to see the practical outcome for more than a few nitwits here that have loudly proclaimed they would rather be spied on by China than the US government. ( I'll bet they have your credit card info and bank accounts too. ) Good luck with that. After all, what could possibly go wrong?
So lets support Bernie Sander with money and time, probably the best chance we've got at weakening and then strangling this country.
FTFY
#3 - You rely upon Apple maintaining and respecting your privacy
Tim Cook didn't address Apple's real privacy problem
Do we know Cold Fjord is not a Russian troll?
That would seem pretty unlikely to anyone that thinks about it since I have taken a pretty consistent stand against Russian aggression and Soviet Communism. By the same token we could ask the same thing about you. I don't think the case there is as clear, is it?
After all, he's making American patriotism look bad by associating it with authoritarianism.
Ah yes, the infamous "authoritarianism" of limited government. Or are you confusing the ability of a free people to defend themselves with authoritarianism? That seems to be a likely source of confusion, no doubt there are others.
Holy crap, that guy. Cold fjord shows up to every Snowden/Manning/Wikileaks story like an unwanted sex offender to a family Christmas dinner.
There are two lies in your post. First, I don't show up to comment on every Snowden/Manning/Wikileaks story. Here are some recent ones. Please point out where I comment in these stories? I didn't.
Except For Millennials, Most Americans Dislike Snowden
Statues of Assange, Snowden and Manning Go Up In Berlin
The Sun Newspaper Launches Anonymous Tor-Based WikiLeaks-Style SecureDrop
Assange Talk Spurs UK Judges To Boycott Legal Conference
Swedish Authorities Offer To Question Assange In London
Privacy Behaviors Changed Little After Snowden
NSA Planned To Hijack Google App Store To Hack Smartphones
Second, if we are going to use a "Christmas dinner" metaphor, what I am is the educated, informed Uncle that is trying to gently persuade the cousin holding crank views that he doesn't understand what he is talking about, and should maybe try to get information from better sources. You apparently are one of "those" cousins.
Of course I'm not surprised by your attack. When you can't attack the facts then attack the man, right? I'm sure there is a name for that. Supposedly that sort of thing is held in contempt on Slashdot. Do you often do contemptible things?
I think it is pretty likely that you're the same person that has made repeated attacks against me in various stories that I didn't even post in. That makes me think I may not be posting enough. You'll have only yourself to blame if I start posting more often. Maybe you should buy some Preparation-H ahead of time to prepare yourself.
And suddenly extremely low-cost proxy services would be offered, so that people wouldn't have to register with the government to see pictures of naked people.
And just as suddenly those extremly low-cost proxy serviced might be blocked?
Eeeegh. That's a terrible thought...
Quite agree! It should be both geo-locked AND geo-cached. Preferably in Scottland. In the Highlands. Among the sheep. It's a baaaad influence.