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Leaked Document Shows Europe Would Fight UK Plans To Block Porn

Mark Wilson writes: Before the UK elections earlier in the month, David Cameron spoke about his desire to clean up the internet. Pulling — as he is wont to do — on parental heartstrings, he suggested that access to porn on computers and mobiles should be blocked by default unless users specifically requested access to it. This opt-in system was mentioned again in the run-up to the election as Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, Sajid Javid assured peopled that the party "will age restrict online porn". But it's not quite that simple. There is the small problem of Europe. A leaked EU Council document shows that plans are afoot to stop Cameron's plans in its tracks — and with the UK on the verge of trying to debate a better deal for itself within Europe, the Prime Minister is not in a particularly strong position for negotiating on the issue. Cameron has a fight on his hands, it seems, if he wants to deliver on his promise that "we need to protect our children from hardcore pornography". Documents seen by The Sunday Times reveal that the EU could make it illegal for ISPs and mobile companies to automatically block access to obscene material. Rather than implementing a default block on pornography, the Council of the European Union believes that users should opt in to web filtering and be able to opt out again at any time; this is precisely the opposite to the way Cameron would like things to work.

253 comments

  1. Geolock Porn by Whiteox · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sure. Let the Brits only see their own porn!

    --
    Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    1. Re:Geolock Porn by TWX · · Score: 1

      Eeeegh. That's a terrible thought...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    2. Re:Geolock Porn by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Shall I felate you with my misshapen blackened teeth, luvvey?"

      "Please do, dearest, and I shall think of England while you do it!"

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:Geolock Porn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That Adele naked singing for you

    4. Re:Geolock Porn by TWX · · Score: 1

      The example I think of is actress Camille Coduri, whom I first saw in King Ralph in 1991, where she played a stripper-turned-consort. Admittedly was almost fifteen years between that role and her starring as Rose Tyler's mother on Doctor Who, but the change was almost startling. I really hope that they intentionally made her look worse and more chav-like.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    5. Re:Geolock Porn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's sick! What about Scotland, Wales, Cornland and Ireland?

    6. Re:Geolock Porn by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      That's sick! What about Scotland, Wales, Cornland and Ireland?

      Wales! You insensitive clod - they are called BBW's!

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    7. Re:Geolock Porn by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      Ahh yes. That takes me back. I think they were called 'Rugby Songs' and the only thing I remember was:

      The men of this water
      Had a charming little daughter
      and the hairs on her dicky di-do
      hung down to her knees.

      The result of which was that I could never listen to Dido (the female singer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D... without giggling,
      and by now, that the charming little daughter would be a hairy Welsh BBW as you say.

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    8. Re:Geolock Porn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Brits only see their own porn!

      yeah? Why do you think they want to block it?

      The Brits are stupid bunch who let themselves be ruled by an upper house entirely appointed and approved by a monarch.
      The house of lords owns most of the land in Britannia, since the Doomsday book. Nobility by thievery.
      Somebody must be nervous about change.

    9. Re:Geolock Porn by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Eeeegh. That's a terrible thought...

      Quite agree! It should be both geo-locked AND geo-cached. Preferably in Scottland. In the Highlands. Among the sheep. It's a baaaad influence.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    10. Re:Geolock Porn by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      The writers were evidently aiming for just that, as another character directly referred to rose as a 'chav' at one point.

    11. Re:Geolock Porn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Porn. American porn, British porn, all made in Eastern Europe!

    12. Re:Geolock Porn by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      They can pry the porn from my warm, wet hands!

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    13. Re: Geolock Porn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ew!

    14. Re:Geolock Porn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better yet, sheep porn. They already have sheep dolls at sexshops, lets just take it a step further.

    15. Re:Geolock Porn by Coisiche · · Score: 1

      The monarch has no say in it. Lords are selected by the ruling government and seats in the House of Lords are effectively for sale. Donate lots to a party and when they are in government you get made a lord.

    16. Re:Geolock Porn by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      The writers were evidently aiming for just that, as another character directly referred to rose as a 'chav' at one point.

      What is the world is a "chav"?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    17. Re:Geolock Porn by oobayly · · Score: 1

      I would have thought sticky would be a more apt adjective. Each to their own I suppose.

    18. Re:Geolock Porn by nosferatu1001 · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Council housed and violent" - police slang from the 90s that made it to mainstream referneces in the UK.

    19. Re:Geolock Porn by tawt · · Score: 1

      The word chav is believed to have been used as far back as the 1860's...long before council housing was even a thing.

    20. Re:Geolock Porn by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      The word has no precise translation into American, but the closest equivalent would be 'white trash.'

    21. Re:Geolock Porn by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      "Council housed and violent" - police slang from the 90s that made it to mainstream referneces in the UK.

      Ok. I have the words for the acronym. Now...what does council housed mean? What is a council house?

      Never heard the term before...

      Thanks in advance.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    22. Re:Geolock Porn by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      that would have been Rose, having been bodyswapped by a skin entity (Lady Cassandra AKA the last human being in the universe) during a hospital chase in New New New New New New... New New New New New New... New New New York, New Earth.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    23. Re:Geolock Porn by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      feral youth underclass that lives beyond its means and assumes an air of total entitlement.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    24. Re:Geolock Porn by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      uh, just no.

      Upper House peers are appointed by the Government, hereditary peers were abolished in 1999, which was the last chance the Monarch had to veto anything. The Monarchy hasn't had a veto since 1911, and the last time the veto was actually USED was 1705.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    25. Re:Geolock Porn by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Council housing: Housing - usually very small housing - built by local government and rented at heavily subsidised rates to the low-income. The intent is to control the cost of living by bringing down house prices, thus increasing local working-class population. Council housing usually requires spending years on a waiting list, as demand is far greater than supply.

    26. Re:Geolock Porn by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      It has nothing to do with housing status Chav is simply a particular kind of low level criminal.. basically what we might would call street scum. They are also a grouping a bit like Skinheads or Mods or Rockers or Goths with a particular fashion look. There are lots of different types of chav - from people who just dress in chav fashion, to pot heads and junkies, all the way to violent thugs and real criminals. Kind of like a white version of US rap culture.. Classic example of US Chav - Britney Spears.

      BTW labelling them as 'council housed' suggests the author is on the UK far right - version of Tea Party, Murdock newspaper reader..

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
  2. Blocking access by Dan+East · · Score: 2

    And how exactly do you block access? Politics and policy aside, from the technical viewpoint, what he proposes is not possible. One country cannot get worldwide cooperation of every single adult website to honor this opt-in policy. Keyword based filters cannot work with encrypted traffic. Whitelisting or blacklisting would be such a massive undertaking as to never be effective. There's just no way to even do what he's advocating.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:Blocking access by arbiter1 · · Score: 1

      It would be done by the ISP of the device itself. they would run a web filter at their end for it.

    2. Re:Blocking access by TWX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And suddenly extremely low-cost proxy services would be offered, so that people wouldn't have to register with the government to see pictures of naked people.

      I'm still waiting for the definition of pornography. Does William Adolphe Bouguereau's A Young Girl Defending Herself Against Eros qualify? How about the work of Spencer Tunick? How about Tennis Girl by Martin Elliott?

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    3. Re:Blocking access by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      The trick is that you don't need to get perfect results:

      It is definitely not the case that you can be perfect results(given that we don't even have an unambiguous definition of what we seek to block, of course it isn't going to work); but even quite primitive filters will hit some stuff. This allows you to tell the Daily Mail readers that Something Is Being Done, just as it ought to.

      Next, the real fun begins: various smartass nerds and/or concerned parents will point out instances where your glorious purity filter has failed. What's to be done?

      Sort into two categories:

      1. Porn site/source has violated some aspect of your broadly worded law and has some operations, persons, or assets in the UK or cooperative jurisdictions. Solution? A nice, soothing, show trial, followed by satisfied preening.

      2. For technical, legal, or jurisdictional reasons, no penalty can be applied. Decry the depravity of the situation, where the wicked jeer as the good stand helpless, and announce that New Powers Are Needed. Announce bill to expand powers, decry opponents as pedophiles and enemies of decency, families, and the children.

      You just can't lose. Sure, you wont' actually stop all the porn; but who cares?

    4. Re:Blocking access by penguinoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And as a bonus, giving the government the right to filter your content at the ISP level comes with a free promise not to abuse that power.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    5. Re:Blocking access by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And how exactly do you block access?

      You're assuming that blocking access is the goal. In fact, the primary goal is likely increased Internet monitoring and surveillance; expansion of police powers.

    6. Re:Blocking access by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And how exactly do you block access?

      Easy. You call up the US vendor that sold China their Great Firewall and order another one. This one will be cheap, considering the UK's population is a fraction that of China.

      And yes, you can hire enough busy-body bureaucrats to keep the blacklists up to date. China does. Think of it as a jobs program. If there's one thing history has shown, it's that 10% of the population is willing, eager, and waiting to oppress the other 90%, "for their own good." That plus a tiny number of sociopathic opportunists is all you need to get it done.

      I'm sure when it's in place that the UK will become a beacon of morality for all the world to admire. Kind of like the Victorian era.</sarcasm>

    7. Re:Blocking access by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Try turning the safe search filter on for google search and search for it. Thats essentially all this will be other than filtered at the ISP instead of a search engine.

      Most people don't even know google turns this filter on by default. Other search engines do the same. Its not much different and any government wanting to know if you specify are a pervert will either get your records from Google or find the info on the computer / device itself and possibly without your knowledge.

      Some ISP spam filters operate in the same way. On by default and push porn to the spam filter inbox.

    8. Re:Blocking access by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      They can block the proxies too. You try accessing Hulu through a proxy from outside the US, for example. All it takes is for someone to say "if you're using a proxy you obviously have something to hide and therefore must be evil".

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    9. Re:Blocking access by Dunbal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That promise also comes pre-broken, just so you don't have to worry about them breaking it.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    10. Re:Blocking access by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      And suddenly extremely low-cost proxy services would be offered, so that people wouldn't have to register with the government to see pictures of naked people.

      And just as suddenly those extremly low-cost proxy serviced might be blocked?

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    11. Re:Blocking access by Visarga · · Score: 1

      > I'm sure when it's in place that the UK will become a beacon of morality for all the world to admire.

      Just like arab nations who have been blocking porn since forever. Falling in their footsteps.

    12. Re:Blocking access by Falos · · Score: 1

      Superevil.

      Like, a druglord pedorist selling illegal DVDs of terrible movies. Who kicks puppies even before you can.

      And that's why I didn't need a warrant, Your Honor.

    13. Re:Blocking access by itzly · · Score: 1

      No, the government will start offering low-cost proxy services that keep a detailed log of all your traffic.

    14. Re:Blocking access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy. You call up the US vendor that sold China their Great Firewall and order another one. This one will be cheap, considering the UK's population is a fraction that of China.

      Funny shit, Cisco and Yahoo bitching about NSA pwning them. You and the Great Firewall of China were the fucking beta test, you assholes, and you did well enough that you're acting surprised when NSA decided to put you into full production domestically? Lulz. Sad lulz, I laugh because laughing is better than crying. STASI proved it didn't work on paper. PRC proved you didn't need paper and was an eager beta test after NOTHING HAPPENED IN TIEANANMEN SQUARE IN 1989, and now the system goes live. Comedy fuckin' gold, I tells ya.

    15. Re:Blocking access by Malc · · Score: 1

      I'm still waiting for the definition of pornography. Does William Adolphe Bouguereau's A Young Girl Defending Herself Against Eros qualify? How about the work of Spencer Tunick? How about Tennis Girl by Martin Elliott?

      Instead of speculating, why don't you look at the British statute books? Wouldn't you expect the same law(s) for print, film and television for instance to apply or at least be a starting point?

    16. Re:Blocking access by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Everyone in the UK should be using a VPN service already. They are inexpensive and will help block various levels of spying and monitoring, as well as providing a clean, unmolested internet feed.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    17. Re:Blocking access by Cyberdyne · · Score: 1

      Easy. You call up the US vendor that sold China their Great Firewall and order another one. This one will be cheap, considering the UK's population is a fraction that of China.

      Already done: TalkTalk (arguably the UK's worst ISP in general, as well as being the first to jump on the government's bandwagon) spent many millions of pounds (described in a related court case as "an eight figure sum") importing a horribly flawed censorship system from Huawei, which is one of the Chinese manufacturers of part of the Great Firewall.

      A few principled UK ISPs are standing up to censorship, and still offering unfiltered services - though I do fear Cameron will attack them for it now: like most bullies, he can't handle criticism or opposition.

    18. Re:Blocking access by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      This especially includes video monitoring. The UK has a television tax, called the "television license fee". It's still a tax, and it's used to help fund the BBC and other government sponsored media. This tax is being skipped more and more with modern computers downloading video directly, and the DRM on British television is being evaded more and more and the broadcasts being retransmitted live, around the world. The problems of collecting the tax are compunded by home entertainment systems no longer being CRT based and easily detected by the scanning vans.

              http://www.theguardian.com/not...

    19. Re:Blocking access by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      You know I don't REALLY kick puppies right? :)

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    20. Re:Blocking access by oobayly · · Score: 1

      From what I recall, whilst scanning for CRTs was technically feasible, simply parking an empty van with "TV licensing detector" written on the side was the a far easier and cheaper method.

    21. Re:Blocking access by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      This allows you to tell the Daily Mail readers that Something Is Being Done, just as it ought to.

      Well, right up until the Daily Mail gets blocked... and given how offensive the lies the DM peddle are, it really should by any kind of "offensive content" filter.

    22. Re:Blocking access by liquidsin · · Score: 1

      exactly my thought; just try to imagine how much a politician wants a list of every citizen who opted in for porn.

      --
      do not read this line twice.
    23. Re:Blocking access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From what I recall, whilst scanning for CRTs was technically feasible, simply parking an empty van with "TV licensing detector" written on the side was the a far easier and cheaper method.

      Made for a good Young Ones skit.
      The young ones ( tv licence man ) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqG4ysu2ksU
      "Viv, chuck the telly out the window."

    24. Re:Blocking access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, the standard strategy is simply to look at the database of homes compared to the database of licenses and send a fine to anyone on one but not the other. Various friends of mine without TVs have had large numbers of visits from "detector people" who simply assume everyone has a TV and attempts to fine anyone without a license.

    25. Re: Blocking access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      politicians are the dumbest people in planet. if they don't want porno don't see it. period.

      it would be like the ban on alcohol in USA in the 20s . but more easy to bypass

    26. Re:Blocking access by smugfunt · · Score: 1

      Solution? A nice, soothing, show trial, followed by satisfied preening.

      In practice it is increasingly difficult to get a successful prosecution for (non-kiddy) porn in the UK, especially if there is a jury involved. Even possessors of 'extreme' gay porn will be acquitted if they plead not-guilty.

    27. Re:Blocking access by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      pornography: the graphic depiction of consenting adults engaged in sexual activity.

      Good enough?

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  3. Is this actually important to DC? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 2

    I would suggest that this might be an issue that David Cameron used for the elections and for politics and that it isn't a core issue that he'll defend against such pushback.

    1. Re:Is this actually important to DC? by jandersen · · Score: 1

      I would suggest that this might be an issue that David Cameron used for the elections and for politics and that it isn't a core issue that he'll defend against such pushback.

      I think it is quite important - as a diversion tactic. He doesn't want people to catch on to the fact that the Conservatives are selling off public assets as part of a larger, ideologically motivated strategy. I won't deny that they and the Liberal Democrats have done a reasonable job of handling the crisis, in as much as they have done at least part of what had to be done, but they have moved on from the pragmatic running of the country, to a targeted implementation of ideology, and that will inevitably hurt society. This is not because Conservative ideology is worse than the others, but because ideology tends to ignore reality.

      The Conservatives have this romantic notion of 'Big Society', which in their minds means that charities, voluntary work etc should cover for more and more things, and the state should not - something I find rather disturbing; presumably if you fall through the 'Big Society' safety net, you are free to go and sell your body to scientific experiments? Another one that sounds a bit hollow is their being the party for 'Working People' - not 'The Working Class', note - which one suspects may mean they are in favour exclusively of people being in work, so you are not on benefits. Thus, changing the benefit system so people are forced to take shitty jobs far below their abilities, because there simply isn't anything else, will be 'For Working People', right?

    2. Re:Is this actually important to DC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Tories aren't selling the NHS. Labour have used that line in the last eight general elections. It simply isn't true.

      Oh, and why is it "ideological" when it's something the Tories believe to the the best course of action, but it's not when Labour do something they believe is best? I didn't even read that second paragraph, you clearly have nothing useful to say.

  4. Or.... by thegarbz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Or we could just stop raising a country of sexually reclusive prudes who are ashamed of their own body and freak out at the through of seeing nipple.

    Funny side anecdote: I was in Bad Hofgastein in Austria skiing and after a long day on the slopes I went down to the wellness centre for an evening of sauna. There was a British woman shouting at the receptionist that it is absolutely unacceptable that she was kicked out for wearing swimmers in the sauna area. There were a lot of naked men and women standing around quite bemused.

    1. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She did not want to offend anyone susceptibilities it was all for the wellness of others.

    2. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She did not want to offend anyone susceptibilities it was all for the wellness of others.

      Whereas there were already naked people around? OP is right; your logic doesn't add up and neither does that wellness centre.

    3. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She did not want to offend anyone susceptibilities it was all for the wellness of others.

      Whereas there were already naked people around? OP is right; your logic doesn't add up and neither does that wellness centre.

      Woooosh.

      She knew she was fugly. Demanding to be able to wear clothes was a service to the other guests, so they wouldn't have to look at her fat lumpy ass naked.

    4. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly you haven't had a good look at British people, they have good reason to be ashamed. The studies that show British nudity causes psychological damage to children and housepets are true.

    5. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That does need to happen, but when a scat lubed, gang rape is an accidentally click away it's also concerning. That's not too bad compared to the 'crush a small animal/insect/fish in your pussy/ass' videos. There are some things that are hard to prepare your kids for. Teaching them basic respect of other people is a must. There have been cases were people were almost killed due to emulating porn and not caring that a self-made ball gag caused the other person to pass out. Mandatory "You must be ## years old to view this site" is good enough for me. It prevents completely accidental exposure. There's no way to prevent complete exposure (explained below) and the sites that try to get around the blocks are going to be the more extreme sites as they're already pushing illegal content so why not ignore a minor IP block or warning page?

      That said, I discovered porn from newspaper ads (decades ago, they've gotten more sexual since then). Something seemed odd about those women because I knew females didn't have dicks but they did have bumps between their legs (camel toe) in the ads. I was confused and looked it up. There's no way the ad industry is going to clean themselves up. Sex sells. Most kid shows and movies are full of sexual undertones too. The classic example being the Lion King, which probably spawned a generate of furries.

    6. Re:Or.... by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Yeah British women are all disgusting. Seriously there are plenty of Americans with bad teeth too.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    7. Re:Or.... by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      I hate to agree with a 'prude' but if she's not comfortable having her body naked, that's her own issue. I understand people who want to be naked can / should be able to in such an environment - but to force others to have to do it? Sorry I'm not seeing the humour.

    8. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody forced her to be nude. If she didn't want to be nude, she could leave the sauna. While I agree it's a bit of a silly rule that "thou shalt be nude in the sauna", we're talking about Austria here. Not exactly a people known for rule bending.

    9. Re:Or.... by JanneM · · Score: 2

      You don't bring swimwear into a sauna. If she isn't comfortable being nude there are multiple other ways to refresh yourself, in the pool, showers or wherever. Nobody forced her into the sauna in the first place.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    10. Re:Or.... by AbRASiON · · Score: 0

      I am going to the sauna, tonight.
      In my swimwear.
      Everyone in my sauna in Australia wears swimwear.

      If you want to be naked, no issue.
      Why should you be FORCED to be naked?

      Sorry, that's fucking ridiculous.

    11. Re:Or.... by JanneM · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You follow the local accepted customs, whether you think they are ridiculous or not.

      Let's take a parallel situation: In some countries, such as Australia I believe, you wear your shoes indoor. In some countries, such as Japan or my native Sweden, you always take them off.

      If you come to either country, would you find it acceptable to basically say "In Australia we always wear our shoes indoor. If you want to take them off, no issue. Why should I be forced to take them off?". Then proceed to try to walk in wearing your outdoor shoes? Would you be surprised if you were (politely in Japan, not so politely in Sweden) thrown out as a result?

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    12. Re:Or.... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      There's a reason for the bad teeth thing. Cosmetic dentistry is far more popular in the US. Most teeth naturally have a yellow tint and a few crocked angles - but in the US, any person of public prominence is expected to have that fixed for a perfect pearly-white smile. The British look bad in comparison.

    13. Re:Or.... by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      the domestic water supply is saturated with fluorine as well, which is an aggressive demineraliser.

      Thus far I've avoided the need for expensive cosmetic implants with calcium chew supplements. Yep, basically I chew chalk.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    14. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not a silly rule. You keep your filthy clothes away from area where I wash my self. Do you ralize how much bacteria there is in your swimming clothes? It's a goddamn heath risk to have people wear them in sauna.

    15. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then proceed to try to walk in wearing your outdoor shoes?

      Followed up by a loud proclamation how much you loathe the taste of cinnamon (the single biggest insult in SE)

    16. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why should you be FORCED to be naked?

      Because the clorine stuck to your swimwear gives poinsonous fumes in the heat of the sauna?

    17. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is a colossally ignorant post. Fluroine is an agressive demineraliser, but there isn't any fluorine in tap water; however there is fluoride, the ionized form of fluorine, which is used as a treatment to increase the rate of remineralisation of teeth and hence added in small amount to tap water as a prophylactic.

    18. Re:Or.... by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Everyone in my sauna in Australia wears swimwear.

      Yeah sorry to break it to you but I have been in Australia for a good 25 years now and I have never experienced a proper sauna. What we call a sauna is a pale imitation to the saunas in European countries.

      So 2 things about your post:
      1. Can I be naked? Why should I be forced to wear cloths? It comes down to locally accepted ways of doing things. Me showing up and getting my cock out at your clothed sauna would be just as frowned upon. The local ways and customs need to be upheld. Don't want to take your cloths off? Find a sauna that suits *your* way of doing things.

      2. We're in Australia. We are not in any way better than or less prude than the UK. The anti-sex hysteria here is just as alive and well as it is over there. The topic of banning hardcore pornography on the internet or adding opt in filters have been raised by both the Libs (sometime in the 2000s) and by Labour only 4 years ago.

    19. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch out for kidney stones.

    20. Re:Or.... by delt0r · · Score: 1

      I lived in Austria for a number of years. They just don't give a shit about nudity. If you tried to get attention by protesting naked, people would probably not even notice. When shopping with my daughter (teenager at the time) one of her friends couldn't find a cubicle to get changed in, so she just got changed in the shop, including a bra.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    21. Re:Or.... by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Germans and Austrians are really funny about rules, typically made up one at that. Like you *must* be naked in a sauna or you get rabbies or something. Or if wind blows on your neck you die (Zugluft).

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    22. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am austrian, and it is a tradition here to be in the Sauna naked. If she feels uncomfortable with this, there are women only saunas also but even there she has to be naked. Use it or leave it, but there is no way to bypass this tradition.

    23. Re:Or.... by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      In Europe (or at least in the Nordic / Scandinavian countries) a Sauna is not just a place to relax in but it's a place where you get to get clean. Historically Saunas where used before the invention of the shower or the bath tub. And I don't think that you shower or batch with your swimwear on in order to get clean in Australia?

    24. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You actually believe that walking mud over somebody's floor is a "parallel situation" to retaining your modesty in a public area?

      The local accepted custom in some countries is to remove the clitoris of young girls. Please don't take your daughter to those countries on holiday.

    25. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The shower I can understand, but before the invention of the bath tub?

      Which part of the bath tub hadn't been invented yet? The hot or the water?

    26. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Or we could just stop raising a country of sexually reclusive prudes who are ashamed of their own body and freak out at the through of seeing nipple.

      Been there. I found the same experience with women that American GI's found during the World Wars: the women were very easy, claimed by an American accent and American willingness to make the first kiss, which was considered a direct invitation to sex. And when I wound up too busy to chase women for a year, I found that the whores were a bit expensive but certainly available. Mind youy, they were mostly Polish, and I had to be very picky to actually get an English girl, and *I* had to insist on the condom for.... well, things for which a US call girl would certainly insist on one.

    27. Re:Or.... by discord5 · · Score: 1

      You follow the local accepted customs, whether you think they are ridiculous or not.

      "When in Rome, do as Romans do" works for simple examples, but some customs go far beyond what I feel is acceptable.

      Let's take a parallel situation: In some countries, such as Australia I believe, you wear your shoes indoor. In some countries, such as Japan or my native Sweden, you always take them off.

      I'm glad you brought up Japan as an example, because it allows me to take the analogy a step further. One such example is during a long stay in Japan, one of the people I was working with offered to take me to a restaurant where they would serve whale meat as one of the dishes. While I have no love for organizations such as Greenpeace, one has to be ignorant of the state of the world not to realize the precarious state of whales in the oceans. You now have two options really: accept the invitation and take part of the economy that thrives on making a species extinct, or decline and risk in offending your host and business partner.

      Now, you can argue that neither accepting or declining will change the fact that the whale is dead and the meat will either be eaten or discarded anyway, and I could not argue with you on that point because obviously the whale will not be killed solely on my account. On the other hand, taking part in eating the whale meat could be interpreted as being okay with Japans policy on whale hunting "for scientific purposes", and on top of that you become (an albeit insignificantly small) part of the "demand" side of the economics justifying the sustained whale hunt. Does your choice in such matters change anything? Unlikely, and hardly the point, but it is a matter of principle.

      There are plenty of examples of behavior in other cultures that I find from my own point of view at best "unwise" and at worst "unacceptable". While most people will agree that taking off your shoes inside someone's home is neither, and is just a custom you should just respect, I do not feel obligated to take part in things I find unacceptable by my own standards and morals.

      I've spent quite some time there, and there are many things I find "unwise" or "unacceptable" with my own cultural background, and their own vision on some of these matters is often very divided, but each subject generates the same response which borders on apathy "It can't be helped" or "It is the way it is" from either camp. Now, it's not up to me to decide what views a culture should adopt or what is morally right or wrong, and that's probably for the best, but I personally refuse to take part in something that I find fundamentally wrong.

      That said, there are many aspects of other cultures that could enrich our own cultures, and I don't think looking over our cultural borders every now and then and meeting eachother half way is a bad idea.

    28. Re:Or.... by Dunbal · · Score: 0

      Not to mention the fact that - who drinks tapwater nowadays?

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    29. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh bullshit.

    30. Re:Or.... by houghi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People who were not persuaded by marketing, like me.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    31. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funnily enough, I know quite a lot of people who swear that "Zugluft" gives them at least a bad head ache, and none of those are german or austrian... but let's not bother with facts and just feed xenophoibic stereotypes

    32. Re:Or.... by JanneM · · Score: 1

      So, you were offered to go to a restaurant that offers whale meat. And as it's against your principles, you declined. Just as the woman simply should have declined the sauna.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    33. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You doesn't seem to understand that certain places have customs and rules that HAVE to be followed, even if they are seemingly "unwise" or "unacceptable" to you. If you don't like, you can go elsewhere: no one cares.

      If you go to a whale meat restaurant and ask for a Big Mac, people will tell you to fuck off and the same thing will happen if you go to a sauna with clothing. Don't like the rules? Tough luck. No one is catering to your wishes and your feelings, precious snowflake.

      If it revolts you so much, feel free to create your own "whale meat-free" whale meat restaurant and your own clothed sauna place: I'm sure it will be bursting with clients.

      You refuse to take part in something that you see as "fundamentally wrong". That's good for you. If taking your clothes off in the sauna is so morally and ethically wrong to you, perhaps you could... avoid going to a sauna that enforces that rule, maybe?

      TL;DR: Are you afraid of nudity? Don't go to a sauna. Are you revolted by whale meat? Don't eat it. Also, protip: No one really cares what your opinion on any given subject is.

    34. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty sure he doesn't shower with 20 other people, to get clean, in Australia, either.

    35. Re:Or.... by wasteoid · · Score: 1

      Tracking dirt inside the house with your outdoor shoes is not the same as being compelled to be naked in front of strangers.

    36. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You follow the local accepted customs, whether you think they are ridiculous or not.

      Wrong. You might. I often don't.

    37. Re:Or.... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      Just think how many cups of tea the average Brit gets through in a day.

    38. Re:Or.... by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 2

      Not to mention the fact that - who drinks tapwater nowadays?

      Anyone that doesn't want to kill the environment by buying plastic bottles of tap water?

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    39. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate to agree with a 'prude' but if she's not comfortable having her body naked, that's her own issue. I understand people who want to be naked can / should be able to in such an environment - but to force others to have to do it? Sorry I'm not seeing the humour.

      You aren't force to take a towel only sauna. If you are uncomfortable with the rules don't try to visit one. Same for FKK beaches.

    40. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Germans and Austrians are really funny about rules, typically made up one at that. Like you *must* be naked in a sauna or you get rabbies or something. Or if wind blows on your neck you die (Zugluft).

      You shouldn't take all sayings literally. Really. Don't. First some people are uncomfortable with clothed people around while they are naked themselves. So the rule is same for all (btw there are some that allow clothing). And sometimes it is pretty dumb to have clothing that can be soaked with hot water (steam).

      Second. 'Du holst Dir noch den Tod' is synonym with you'll catch a cold or in case of Zugluft a stiff neck.

    41. Re: Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once again: nobody was forcing her to be in the sauna. If she didn't like the sauna rules she shouldn't have gone in the sauna.

    42. Re:Or.... by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      both

    43. Re:Or.... by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      So there is no public shared showers in Australian bath houses?

    44. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      zugluft? train air? elavator air? i think you mean draft, or just ziehluft, as in "es ziehts"

    45. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are plenty of examples of behavior in other cultures that I find from my own point of view at best "unwise" and at worst "unacceptable". While most people will agree that taking off your shoes inside someone's home is neither, and is just a custom you should just respect, I do not feel obligated to take part in things I find unacceptable by my own standards and morals.

      You said it yourself

      Now, it's not up to me to decide what views a culture should adopt or what is morally right or wrong, and that's probably for the best, but I personally refuse to take part in something that I find fundamentally wrong.

      And even know the solution! Don't like an all nude sauna? Don't visit it!

      That said, there are many aspects of other cultures that could enrich our own cultures, and I don't think looking over our cultural borders every now and then and meeting eachother half way is a bad idea.

      If you normally wear swimwear in the sauna and insist on doing it where it's not the custom, it's not meeting halfway. And especially if you're a visitor to that culture and the only person doing so, you're making everyone else uncomfortable whilst by not wearing, you would only make yourself uncomfortable. So which option is closer to a compromise when the question is binary - either wearing or not wearing?

      Tangential questions for you:
      Would you insist on going into a synagogue without covering your head or would you have the good judgment to abstain from going? Assuming that you would not feel that you must wear something for other reasons (just weather or whatever).

      What is your view on burkha bans in public places?

      Do you think those African or Aboriginal tribes in which women don't cover their breasts do something unacceptable? Or the sentinelese men who don't cover their penises?

      All such customs are cultural and you've just been brought up a particular way. On a personal level and as a non-biologist I can't really judge whether human beings are pre-programmed to think "sex!" when seeing a particular body part of the opposite sex just because they in that particular culture normally only see it when having sex. The examples I gave of tribes which don't cover body parts that we in the West usually associate with sex makes me unsure of such pre-programming because if they can view each other "naked" by our standards all the time without daily life becoming an orgy ;) it implies that it's nurture, not nature.

      Furthermore, as a Northern European (my life is a long story spanning all four Nordics) I've been to mixed all-nude saunas many times and realized that whilst we associate precisely the same body parts with sex as you do, for some reason we don't think sex in the sauna (except when I once had it when a girl and I had instant, extreme-beyond-words attraction at a party and couldn't resists and there was nowhere else to go...) Perhaps it is because as children, we're used to going to the sauna naked with parents and siblings and doing so has nothing to do with sex. So our brains are programmed to see nudity in the sauna and just not think sex then - just like e.g. doctors examining patients (with perhaps pervy exceptions). Heck, I don't think I could even masturbate afterwards to thoughts of chicks I've seen naked in the sauna - it just isn't sexual to me.

    46. Re:Or.... by delt0r · · Score: 1

      No i mean zugluft. that is what they call it. Sure its a draft. But in Bavaria and Austria that is what its called.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    47. Re:Or.... by delt0r · · Score: 1

      LOL.. you said facts with nothing but anecdotal evidence. I mean please explain the mechanism on how you get sick if you are exposed to a air current! Bear in mind that in some countries air condition is set up to blow a because they don't get all Zugluft about shit (japan for example). In fact my anecdotal evidence suggest 100% correlation with speaking German.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    48. Re:Or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is it. In public swimming pools, chlorine is sometimes/often (IANAC) used to disinfect the pool water. A bunch of people bringing in large amounts of water with their swimming wear, you get a WW1 chemical weapon in the sauna air. Probably not in quantities that kill, but possibly enough to irritate weaker respiratory systems of children or asthmatics. Go to a sauna next to a natural lake though, and the rule most likely does not exist.

  5. LOL democracy! by BringMyShuttle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Cameron is staunchly anti-freedom. What's tragic is a majority of British liked this and voted for the man and those that didn't are forced at gunpoint to come along for the ride.

    "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill

    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” —Ben Franklin

    “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.” —Thomas Jefferson

    “Democracy ... wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams

    “Democracy is the most vile form of government... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention... incompatible with personal security or the rights of property.” —James Madison

    “The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and ... breaks up the foundations of society.” —Thomas Jefferson

    http://democracyisnotfreedom.c... https://encyclopediadramatica....

    1. Re:LOL democracy! by godel_56 · · Score: 1

      Cameron is staunchly anti-freedom. What's tragic is a majority of British liked this and voted for the man and those that didn't are forced at gunpoint to come along for the ride. "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” —Ben Franklin “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.” —Thomas Jefferson “Democracy ... wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams “Democracy is the most vile form of government... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention... incompatible with personal security or the rights of property.” —James Madison “The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and ... breaks up the foundations of society.” —Thomas Jefferson http://democracyisnotfreedom.c... https://encyclopediadramatica....

      "The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them in parliament." — Vladimir Lenin

    2. Re:LOL democracy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      To be clear, the Cameron's "majority" was only a third. Two thirds of the country are hostage to this unrepresentative farce. Yey first-past-the-post!

    3. Re:LOL democracy! by grahammm · · Score: 3, Informative

      Cameron is staunchly anti-freedom. What's tragic is a majority of British liked this and voted for the man and those that didn't are forced at gunpoint to come along for the ride.

      No, the majority of the the British people did not vote for him. Firstly, only about 65% of those eligible voted and of those only 36% voted conservative. So less than one quarter of those registered to vote voted for him.

    4. Re:LOL democracy! by gerddie · · Score: 1

      [...]

      “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” —Ben Franklin

      [...]

      “The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and ... breaks up the foundations of society.” —Thomas Jefferson

      That's why you really want a consensus democracy:

      Consensus democracy is the application of consensus decision-making to the process of legislation in a democracy. It is characterized by a decision-making structure which involves and takes into account as broad a range of opinions as possible, as opposed to systems where minority opinions can potentially be ignored by vote-winning majorities.

    5. Re:LOL democracy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      36.8% of the UK voted for Cameron, the remainder did not.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2015#Results

  6. That was then, but what about now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wasn't Cameron only taking a stance in order to assuage anti-porn feminists? Pro-feminist candidates were roundly defeated in the last elections and they were hilariously humiliated by the Sun in the Page Three imbroglio. Cameron's an idiot if he pays any more attention the neo-puritans.

    captcha: purify

  7. I don't get it. by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 1

    the EU could make it illegal for ISPs and mobile companies to automatically block access to obscene material. Rather than implementing a default block on pornography, the Council of the European Union believes that users should opt in to web filtering and be able to opt out again at any time

    O.K., this is better than the opposite (i.e., "blocked by default unless users specifically requested access to it"), but does this means that "the EU could make it illegal for ISPs and mobile companies to NOT automatically block access to obscene material if users OPT IN to web filtering"? (for the record: i believe that ISP's should -try to- block access to such materials if users ask for it)

    --
    Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
    1. Re:I don't get it. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 2

      (for the record: i believe that ISP's should -try to- block access to such materials if users ask for it)

      If you believe that, then you have failed to understand the Internet at a profoundly fundamental level.

      The Internet was designed from the very beginning for all of the intelligence to be at the edges. The network itself is supposed to be as dumb as it is possible to be while still moving everybody's packets around. If you want censorship, it's your job to implement it on the tiny little network in your house, or even individual nodes on that network, and leave everyone else alone. No one else should be spending any CPU time for what you want.

    2. Re:I don't get it. by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 1, Redundant

      (for the record: i believe that ISP's should -try to- block access to such materials if users ask for it)

      If you believe that, then you have failed to understand the Internet at a profoundly fundamental level.

      The Internet was designed from the very beginning for all of the intelligence to be at the edges. The network itself is supposed to be as dumb as it is possible to be while still moving everybody's packets around. If you want censorship, it's your job to implement it on the tiny little network in your house, or even individual nodes on that network, and leave everyone else alone. No one else should be spending any CPU time for what you want.

      I had a VERY small part in helping the first Greek real ISP build its network - i know the network fundamentals (if you read carefully you will notice that i wrote "try to"), but i also know that most "internet" users dont know anything about networking. You must understand that censorship is a very strong word to use for cases like, e.g., a parent who does not know about packets/node/networks asking his ISP to block porn - and ISPs have enough CPU time to -try to- help. Just because YOU know about networks, does not mean everyone knows about them - and for many people, having an ISP helping its customers block porn is customer service.

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
  8. new alternative union by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Funny

    UK & Greece: no porn and no money.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:new alternative union by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      Wonder how large a percentage of GDP pr0n origination is for Ukraine, Hungary, and the Czech republic?

  9. Make it a required choice on signup. by Going_Digital · · Score: 0

    Would seem sensible for ISPs to require a choice at signup, where you would have to select either yes or no to web filtering. i.e no default. That way lawyers are happy that nobody can claim they didn't know about the option. Users could then easily change their preferences at a later day as they choose.

    1. Re:Make it a required choice on signup. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Choice: The Left and the Right will hate this idea.

      But I like it.

    2. Re:Make it a required choice on signup. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, the sensible thing is for the ISP to be a dumb pipe and nothing more.

  10. Sheep Herding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How to make a nation pro-EU?

    Enact stupid and draconian laws, or violate civil liberties, at the national level and have the EU ride in on its white horse to save us all.

    I suppose it can be interpreted as acts of subversion.

  11. They're your damned kids, your damned problem ... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The world should not be set up safe as a default for you and your fucking whiny children.

    The moral upbringing of your children in a sealed bubble which keeps the world at bay is your damned problem.

    Every parent who insists the world be made sanitized for you and your precious little snowflake can piss off.

    You want a nanny internet, you take the time to sign up for it and request it. But if you think the rest of the world should have to opt-in ... you can fuck off and leave the rest of us out of it.

    I'm s sick of idiotic parents who think the world should change to protect their children. We don't give a crap, they're not our kids ... on behalf of parent-less couples everywhere, this is your fucking problem not ours.

    I won't moderate my behavior for my mother. If you think I'll do it for you and your brood of annoying children ... well, ask me. I dare you. Because they'll learn every possible bad word as well as hearing them used in complete sentences.

    If you think the world should tiptoe around you and your kids ... you're too stupid to have kids.

    Shit piss fuck cunt cocksucker motherfucker and tits. Fuck you, fuck off, go the fuck away, and don't make me tell you again.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  12. Ban the BBC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... the Prime Minister is not in a particularly strong position ...

    Just ban all BBC exports in Europe: Which would be a shame since the BBC make the best documentaries on the planet. Some of their shows (eg. 'Top gear') earn millions for the UK government. Let's see how desperate Cameron is for censorship when he has to pay the price.

    1. Re:Ban the BBC by rossdee · · Score: 1

      I thought Top Gear had ended, after Jeremy Clarkson had a (literal) fight with the producer.

  13. The Internet Is For Porn! by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 3, Funny

    David Cameron needs to watch this video.

  14. Give the anti-EU brigade a nice shiny new argument by Bruce66423 · · Score: 0

    There seems to be absolutely no need for Europe to get involved in this issue, and the fact that there are some wanting it to do so is a sign that there's no real commitment to subsidiarity (why does the decision need to be taken an EU level given that ISP are inevitably local?). It also suggests there are Eurocrats with too little to do with their time...

    Of course the whole area is product of the ignorance of our lords and masters at how easy it is to get past such barriers...

  15. Won't matter after Brexit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since UK is leaving the EU and it's myriad financial and political problems behind soon anyways, this will soon be moot.

  16. Wow by Snotnose · · Score: 1

    Just a minute ago I was reading about trannie mosquitos, now I read the EU wants to protect the average brit's right to fap to trannie mosquito porn.

    / it's not news
    // it's Fark!
    /// Oh, wait

  17. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I can't speak for other countries, but here in the US, making porn is in no way illegal so the actresses are free to peruse legal help if that were the case. And also, due to regulation, regular STD checks are mandatory and if a positive test comes up, the entire industry is halted until the breadth of the problem is determined. So at least in the US, all the points you made are nothing but FUD. And I believe the US is one of the largest porn producers in the world.

  18. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I see you are trying to take the western modern medicine approach to treatment, cover up the symptoms and ignoring the underlying disease.

  19. Split by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    I am split. On one hand I support freedom of speech and I think it would be nice to enforce it. On the other hand I support Democracy and if the Brits want to restrict freedom of speech, an outer undemocratic body like EU should not be able to bar them.

    But after some though, I think that there should be no natural laws. People sovereignty should be the source of any law and therefore Democracy should trump freedom of speech. After all in a democratic regime, freedom of speech restriction wan be overturned later by another sovereign decisionn therefore it is no big deal.

    1. Re:Split by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Undemocratic? Just because the only people who turn out to vote for MEPs are - for some perverse reason - UKIP supporters doesn't make the European undemocratic, just barely representative.

    2. Re:Split by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The UK, hell, the US and pretty much every country that says they are democratic is a load of bullshit and you know it.

      There is no country that practices true democracy.
      If there was, you'd be able to vote in every lead position across all government agencies.
      Middle government is unaffected by any voting, only local and senior (top) government is vote-able.
      And we all know that means sweet fuck-all for anything.

      Welcome to the new age of the United Kingdom of Prudistan.
      Fuck London. Burn it again. London, literally the cancer eating away at Britain.
      The rest of the country needs to secede from London. It is worthless.
      Only those weird poncy billionaires go there, and morons that think London looks great. It isn't great, it is a fucking disaster on levels as bad as New York.
      In fact, go one further, ban cities.
      If you want to ban "anti-Britishness", can't beat that, cities are the biggest source of everything wrong in the world.

    3. Re:Split by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you can't vote someones inalienable right away. You have rights to freedom of speech, period, no government body has the right to take it away from you, and neither do a majority of people.

      My rights are more important than YOUR life! If you are in the way of my inalienable right to free speech, you and your kind have to go and I don't give a flying fuck how many people support your position.

    4. Re:Split by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand I support Democracy and if the Brits want to restrict freedom of speech,

      No, David Cameron wants to restrict freedom of speech. His party got about 36% of the votes, yet they are running everything (yay, first past the post).

      A prude got elected using a broken system. This is not democracy.

    5. Re:Split by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ban cities, huh?

      How?

  20. He only needs to be seen trying by Brulath · · Score: 2

    As is typical for politicians of his breed, he only needs to be seen to be trying to implement an Internet filter. He doesn't need to pass it to be seen to be doing something by those people he's trying to win votes from, and if he doesn't succeed he'll be able to rally them again next election and win their votes. Failing to create a workable solution and being able to blame the European Union is probably highly beneficial to him, politicially.

    1. Re:He only needs to be seen trying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He already tried and pushed a filter on the country.
      This is David Cameron here, he is a deluded fucking moron.

      The only reason people voted him in is so Ed Milliband never got in, an even bigger deluded moron.
      Ed Milliband - being the moron he is - doomed the UK to another half decade of prude-ism and censorship by the party that is literally soccer-moms who want to blame the rest of the world for their problems.
      That is how British Politics work, vote for the person most likely to beat the person you DON'T want in.

      What I wonder is how Scotland will feel. Actually, what I wonder is how the rest of the damn country feel.
      He is only appeasing the minds of a small vocal minority of prudish pricks and lazy parents in the South of the country.
      There was already a petition for the North of England to join Scotland which gained significant momentum after the tories were voted in.
      I'd happily welcome my North England brothers and sisters. Best part of England. Fuck the South.
      Hey, I just realized the UK has a similar problem to the US, the South blows ass and the North is superior.

  21. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amen to that.

    SSCCATAGAPP!

  22. Ho hum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "we need to protect our children from hardcore pornography"
    Typical conservative "save the children" bullshit. What we actually need to do is educate children that "hard-core" pornography is not real. That it's the equivalent of a sexual cartoon for not very grown up grown ups, and that for the vast majority of people sex doesn't work that way.

    1. Re:Ho hum by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Actually the legal difference between hard core and soft core, is that the latter is simulated, the former is technically "real". That is, for example, showing an actual erection would count as hard core pornography.

      But yeah, porn is inherently unrealistic: the pizza delivery guy never arrives that quickly after you place your order...

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    2. Re:Ho hum by John+Allsup · · Score: 1

      Trouble is that teaching our kids to tell fantasy from reality would stop them falling for politicians bullshit, thus it would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.

      --
      John_Chalisque
  23. I don't understand the porn industry. by mark_reh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There is so much free stuff available (so I've heard ;) ), how does anyone make any money with it at all?
    Who pays for porn with so much free stuff available?
    Is porn just advertising for the actors who engage in for-hire sex with anyone with adequate funds?
    Are us poor slobs just enjoying the commercials while the rich guys get the real stuff?

    1. Re:I don't understand the porn industry. by m00sh · · Score: 2

      There is so much free stuff available (so I've heard ;) ), how does anyone make any money with it at all? Who pays for porn with so much free stuff available? Is porn just advertising for the actors who engage in for-hire sex with anyone with adequate funds? Are us poor slobs just enjoying the commercials while the rich guys get the real stuff?

      There is so much open source and free software available on the internet. Does anyone even make any money selling software?

      There is so much free music. There is so much free movies. So much free news, books, educational material, and so on and so on.

    2. Re:I don't understand the porn industry. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I pay for porn. VideoBox is fantastic. So cheap and tooooons of content. It's like the Netflix of porn.

    3. Re:I don't understand the porn industry. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      Quality and indexing. There's lots of free porn available, but it isn't very well-filed - and if you've any particular desires, you could spend far too long searching for the hot stuff and not enough time enjoying it. Some pay-porn services operate by providing access to well-indexed and often quite specialised fetishes. Even so, the porn industry online has long struggled to get customers to actually pay, and is very heavily dependent upon advertising. This creates another problem for them: Most of the major advertising companies have a 'no porn' policy, so porn site operators (Along with piracy site operators) have to go to the lower end of the market where companies are less-than-reputable.

      This is why you see so many porn ads on torrent sites.

    4. Re:I don't understand the porn industry. by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      netflix started out as a distributor of child abuse images, FYI.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    5. Re:I don't understand the porn industry. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      by providing access to well-indexed and often quite specialised fetishes

      I can't even find mine. If I'm lucky, I get to see it quite by accident as I don't think it's been categorised.
      I know that seems unlikely, but as far as I know it's true.

  24. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who do you think it is out there making sex slavery a profitable industry? Does the matter even enter into the debate over pornography, or is everyone supposed to just assume that one phenomenon somehow doesn't feed into the other?

  25. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The porn filter and protect the children thing is a straight up lie. It is all about censorship about blocking any ideas that compete with the false ideology of the rich and greedy, that ideology being they want more, more, more. It is all about accidental block sites, union sites, opposition (real opposition) political sites, real news sites, blogs basically anything at all. All so very accidental, then it takes months to unblock and costs thousands of dollars and then it gets accidentally blocked again.

    Reality is, if they are serious about porn, they should simply strip sic it of copyright protection, cripple the ability of corporations to generate a profit from it and with out the profit there is no money to make more. Done and finished.

    Of course it all has nothing what so ever to do with porn, that is a lie. All about blocking the majority from publishing anything and putting the power of publishing content back in the hand of a psychopathically greedy minority.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  26. We are not amused by Snufu · · Score: 1

    Someone should gently remind the prime minister that the Victorian era is over.

    1. Re:We are not amused by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 0

      Someone should gently remind the prime minister that the Victorian era is over.

      Yes, someone should. But I don't see why that someone should be an EU bureaucrat. Why should the EU be telling the British how to run Britain? If they want porn to be opt-in, that is their own business.

    2. Re:We are not amused by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Someone should gently remind the prime minister that the Victorian era is over.

      MP to PM: Sir, I beg leave to inform you that the Victorian era is over.
      PM to MP: Then let the Neo-Victorian era begin!

      God save the Queen! Protect the Falklands! ...... Egad! What happened to the Jewel of the Empire?

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    3. Re:We are not amused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as the UK is an EU member, EU law (directives) trumps UK law. And I consider that a good thing because the UK and other member states have on occasion tried to enact legislation that no sane person would want and been stopped by the EU (censorship and IIRC some discrimination against homosexuals in Poland). However, no entirely insane legislation has come from the EU because in most cases a majority of countries have IMHO very good values (I'd call them European values) so that when instances of stupidity like this occur in a random member state, the rest prevent it.

    4. Re:We are not amused by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      However, no entirely insane legislation has come from the EU

      I don't know where to begin with listing insane legislation from the EU. Perhaps banning fencing creosote. Maybe that's OK in dry sunny countries, but not where i live in the hills of Wales where it is much damper than in your "majority of countries" in the EU.

    5. Re:We are not amused by nukenerd · · Score: 2

      Someone should gently remind the prime minister that the Victorian era is over.

      You obviously don't know much about the Victorians.

    6. Re:We are not amused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Perhaps banning fencing creosote.

      Banned? It's just regulated because it's carcinogenic. That said, I do agree that the EU has passed many, many somewhat stupid directives but the consequences are nuisances - not something against fundamental European values of freedom and human rights. This particular plan to block porn is against freedom because it's censorship. Regulating creosote is not. Or the curvature of bananas.

    7. Re:We are not amused by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      Same reason the guy you hired to manage your stock market portfolio gets to decide when you sell Apple.

      They joined the EU, and 100% of membership in that club is agreeing to be that semi-elected EU Bureaucrats and the actually-elected EU Parliament get a lot of say over your national legislation. The pro is that since the same thing applies to every-damn-body, now your businesses/people know what to expect in Denmark, they all have access to the Danish market, etc.

      Noe he could get them out of the EU, and he's actually planning a referendum on the issue, which would make it a moot point. But he probably doesn't want to win that referendum because leaving the EU would guarantee Scots secession, put Wales into play, and do Interesting Things in that place where no-one wants Interesting Things to happen (Northern Ireland).

    8. Re:We are not amused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why should that be a british bureaucrat? I'm as much british as I am European, so quite why someone sharing "British" with me as a nationality should be allowed but someone sharing "European" with me as a nationality isn't.

      And if you say "Because Britain is your COUNTRY", then all that needs to be done is change our country to "Europe" and suddenly there's no problems.

      a) We aren't losing our nationality: it's European.
      b) We aren't being ruled by foreigners: we're European.
      c) We still have our sovereignty: Europoean Sovereignty.
      d) We still have our currency: Euro.

      Quite why you and Cameron banged on about how bad it was for Scotland to leave, or ungrateful for them to want to leave, yet still at the same time bang on about how they want to leave Europe.

      Scotland would be much richer if they kept the oil and gas revenues instead of getting a payback via the Barnett Formula. Which puts the lie to the "But Scotland get more money from us than they pay!".

    9. Re:We are not amused by trewornan · · Score: 1

      The Scots have already had a referendum and decided to stay.

      Still waiting for the rest of the UK to get a referendum on whether to kick them out anyway.

    10. Re:We are not amused by trewornan · · Score: 1

      The Barnett formula has NOTHING to do with oil revenue.

      Always makes me laugh how Scots believe if they got all the oil revenue they'd be rich - despite the economic facts.

      Fuck off and try it then!

      If they really believed it the greedy gits would have voted themselves out of the UK no doubt - truth is they know better.

      I had hoped that once they'd had their referendum they'd shut up their whining - fat chance.

    11. Re:We are not amused by Wheely · · Score: 2

      It is important to be careful when referring to "stupid directives". Most of them are not and the ones that make the headlines are not even true. For example, the banana thing was an attempt by the EU to keep the quality of bananas in the face of sub-standard imports. Interestingly, the legal properties of the banana were taken from the already existing UK regulations.

      Some EU directives discussed are a bit nutty but most of them never make it to being a law.

    12. Re:We are not amused by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      The Scots have already had a referendum and decided to stay.

      Still waiting for the rest of the UK to get a referendum on whether to kick them out anyway.

      They decided to stay partly because they had no fucking clue how the EU membership application of a bunch of Secesh would go. Next year there'll be a Scots Parliamentary election, and when the SNP win they'll have a new mandate for another referendum.

      And even with the UK still in the EU the only demographic that didn't give the SNP an outright majority in the Westminster election were over-60s, who have a tendency to die off.

      So if Cameron's EU-Out referendum results in an out the UK is dead. The Welsh probably start talking secession as well, and a country that includes England and Northern Ireland but neither Wales nor Scotland is ridiculous and probably not viable even before you factor in the Catholic/Republican consistent desire to be united with Ireland proper.

    13. Re:We are not amused by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      In the Victorian era the Conservatives were on the 'other' side. Taking money from the child prostitution industry they fended off age of consent laws for at least 30 years... When I learned it for a while I couldn't help calling them the 'Pedo Party'. (All done in the name of money - in my book that makes them worse than the pedophiles..)

      Given other child sex scandals here in the UK its quite clear that there was a plot right across the establishment, at least up until a few years ago.. hundreds of children trafficked over decades - some murdered - and VIP pedophiles actively protected by the police. Brings a whole new meaning to 'Police Pedophile Unit'.. Then there was Rotherham .. police incompetence honed to an artistic peak . .or collusion..

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
    14. Re:We are not amused by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      How about a business form of over 400 pages telling you how they've simplified and made the process of filling in the form easier, and with enough levels of parenthesis and bureaucracy to drive even lawyers crazy... The EU has literally millions of published pages of rules and regulations and its dead weight is completely suffocating Europe..
      Regulating the curvature of bananas is only one among many.. many over demanding rules... Insane no. Dead stupid and vastly over bureaucratic yes.

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
  27. Because porn... by MrKaos · · Score: 1

    is just not British!

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  28. World War III by Snufu · · Score: 3, Funny

    Some things are worth dying for.

    1. Re:World War III by phorm · · Score: 1

      Death by snoo snoo?

  29. Different perspectives... by swillden · · Score: 1

    Whatever you think of the various sides of this argument, it's interesting to me to look at how different the sides are.

    The US is, on average, far more concerned about pornography and other sexual issues than the UK, but there is not and never will be any significant discussion of government-mandated filters, outside of specific situations like government-run schools. The reason is our belief in the importance of free speech. Although there are plenty of Americans who would like to ban porn, no one at a national level says it out loud. No one seriously talks about it even at local, highly homogeneous levels, because everyone knows it won't fly.

    The UK is somewhat less prudish than the US, but is perfectly willing to carve out large exceptions to free speech wherever it's convenient. Therefore, British pols do talk seriously about trying to ban porn, except for adults who opt out.

    Europe (as a whole; there are exceptions) is even less concerned about free speech than the UK, but apparently considers porn to be something worth fighting for, to the degree that they're willing to invest at least a little effort in fighting to keep porn available to kids in the UK.

    FWIW, I think porn is bad. Conceptually, there's nothing wrong with human sexuality, but porn presents an extremely distorted view of human sexuality. I think regular consumption of hardcore pornography, particularly by adolescents, skews expectations and perceptions in ways that have negative consequences. That said, I have no interest in trying to ban it. I do filter it on my home network, but that's a half measure which mostly serves as an early warning system (I get notified of attempts to get to porn sites) which offers a chance to talk the issues over if I find my kids looking for it.

    All of which mostly says that I'm a fairly typical American parent: concerned about porn but unwilling to take the strong anti-freedom steps needed to effectively ban it :-)

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    1. Re:Different perspectives... by John+Allsup · · Score: 1

      Likewise spectacles like WWE wrestling present a similarly unrealistic picture of both human physiques, and human fighting, and indeed set a poor example of how to behave if people are looking for examples of how to live. Similarly, superhero movies (very popular at the moment) present a heavily distorted picture of reality. Then professional sports give a simiilary fantastical picture of human fitness and how sports are played, compared to what average players of these sports would be like (and it is unrealistic to expect than any amount of training would get my tennis to the level of Djokovic or Federer). Then in fashion and marketing, unrealistically good looking people and unrealistically good images of products are used to sell things.

      Unreality is omnipresent in today's world, and porn is just one example. If we instinctively think that 'this sort of thing only happens in porn movies, not real life', and likewise 'only top football teams can get away with playing this way -- when I play, I stick to what is realistic', then the many of the issues that porn 'causes' go away. The 'sex addiction' that is sometimes seen with porn can just as readily happen with an overactive imagination, and in any case, anything that placates a strongly dissatisfied sex drive and end up becoming an obsession. (And there are far worse obsessions than porn.)

      The big problem of teaching children to tell fantasy and fiction from reality is one which our education systems desperately need to tackle, but probably won't. Likewise how to prevent the problem of attaching too much unnecessary meaning to things like sex and nudity. In the present world, bringing a new human being into the world is a 20+ year process (building a home, fertilisation, bringing the pregnancy to term, safe delivery, raising the child to maturity). Fertilisatiion is pretty much the most trivially easy of that process, but it is the one to which we have a natural instinctive drive, and it is the one stage over which it is easy to make broad controlling statements from a position of power.

      The european countries have a far better attitude to sex and nudity than the US or UK, and we should seriously learn from them.

      --
      John_Chalisque
    2. Re:Different perspectives... by swillden · · Score: 1

      I think unrealistic portrayals of sex create bigger problems than those other examples you cite -- though they are problems. The reason I think that is that the other unrealistic portrayals don't affect core human relationships to the same degree. I hope I'm wrong, actually. We'll know in a generation or so.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    3. Re:Different perspectives... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      In the mainstream media, sex and violence are both tidy and (with rare exceptions) have no lasting consequences. I consider that as dangerous as anything porn can do.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  30. Can somone aware me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why the UK and AU are so hardcore about banning porn online? I know the UK has this giant boogey man called child porn that seems to be so widespread (since that is usually the context for wanting a ban), but is child porn viewing really the bulk of what porn is tuned into in the UK?

    I remember having a conversation with a coworker from London once while driving to find some lunch, we passed a hooters and he was like, "there would be no way that would make it in the UK".

    1. Re:Can somone aware me... by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      there's no such thing as "child porn". It's "CHILD ABUSE".

      Pornography is the graphical depiction of consenting adults engaged in sexual activity. Don't take my word for it, go grab your dictionary and look it up yourself.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    2. Re:Can somone aware me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technically, it's "photographic evidence of child abuse".

      How they ever thought that banning evidence was a good idea is beyond me.

  31. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by weilawei · · Score: 1

    +1, Bravo.

  32. Whales by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    it's a few big spenders. In the game industry they call them "Whales". That and spyware/viruses selling scams that folks fall for.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  33. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who do you think it is out there making sex slavery a profitable industry?

    People who buy sex slaves. And literally nobody else.

  34. No sex we're British! by quax · · Score: 1
  35. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's expand the focus a bit, for a better perspective: Rape, Sexual Harassment, Stalking/Voyeurism. And, for that matter, pretty much any lust.

  36. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, so this is the $100,000 Pyramid? Okay, go:

    Rape, Sexual Harassment, Stalking/Voyeurism.

    Things That Can Only Be Blamed On Pornography If You Seriously Believe In Magic!

  37. Just let him try by SlovakWakko · · Score: 1

    This is beyond futile, but at least it will greatly advance image recognition. Maybe they could also differentiate the ban by actual scene properties and try to vary them every week (like having a BBC week, ATM week, etc.) - that would be really useful.

    1. Re:Just let him try by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Would a porn identification program be a 'pornograph?'

    2. Re:Just let him try by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      Dunno, but my cousin once was a member of Pornosheriff (band)

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
  38. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You need to service your brain. It seems to be broken. Badly.

  39. terrible idea, already fucked up by ihtoit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    UK ISPs already block certain traffic. Not necessarily bittorrent either. I've had more than a few blogs blocked not because of morally questionable content, but because of politically questionable content.

    The message here from Europe, is that you can watch a video of a woman getting fucked up the arse but you can't watch a Youtube of someone with a beef against the British Government. It's starting to sound more like the West's vision of North Korea every day, but there it is.

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    1. Re:terrible idea, already fucked up by umafuckit · · Score: 1

      Which anti-government Youtube videos have been blocked in the UK?

    2. Re:terrible idea, already fucked up by abies · · Score: 1

      'Someone with beef against government' may mean someone explaining how to make 2 tons of explosives and where to park them in Westminster to cause maximum damage.

    3. Re:terrible idea, already fucked up by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

      So, what if it does? Where do you draw the line? Who gets to decide what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. You could go to a pub and chat to someone who will explain how to make an explosive from fertilizer and diesel. Are we going to ban pubs as well now? In fact if we ever meet in a pub I can tell you exactly how to make an explosive, down to the detonator and timers, as well as ensuring you get maximum shrapnel. Doesn't mean I'm going to do it, doesn't mean you are going to do it, we're just having a fucken conversation. When you start limiting what people can or cannot even talk about it's a very slippery slope. If you are worried about your kids "accidently" finding porn on the internet then they should not be on the internet in the first place. Don't start blocking everyone because of parents who can't raise their fucken kids properly.

      --
      There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
    4. Re:terrible idea, already fucked up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, exactly.

      And why should it be someone in Westminster to decide it? Just because a quarter of people voted for them and that was enough to win more than half the seats in the government.

    5. Re:terrible idea, already fucked up by ihtoit · · Score: 2

      I shot a documentary with the father of a little girl who had been abducted by two social workers and four police officers in Suffolk; we had his evidence in the video, we had a prima facie case against the State for child trafficking - we only did the video because the police didn't want to know and neither did the criminal courts, but they sure had something to say when the video went up. Something about bringing harm to MY family. Next thing I know, my primary blog is taken down by Wordpress, my Youtube accounts are shitcanned and I'm getting angry phone calls from colleagues over in Canada saying that they're getting pressure to remove content with me in it.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    6. Re:terrible idea, already fucked up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The government will draw the line, of course. We are like small children that need to be guided by our fair-minded government and corporate masters. What a silly question!

    7. Re:terrible idea, already fucked up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The message from Europe is clearly that this shit won't fly. It's in the fucking title you dumb bastard.

    8. Re:terrible idea, already fucked up by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      So where can we see this video? Or did you give in and keep it offline?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:terrible idea, already fucked up by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      there is a perpetual injunction on it. Ask why, go on I double dog dare you.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    10. Re:terrible idea, already fucked up by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Can you cite the injunction then? It should be a matter of public record that the decision was made, and the reasons why.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re:terrible idea, already fucked up by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      I could but as is the nature of superinjunctions you won't find it on BAILII.

      There are, however, news articles on the couple and their children, such as this one: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new... and there is mention of them by name on Hansard: http://www.publications.parlia... (John Hemming at Col. 243) and by Tim Yeo at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... (25 November 2009 Adjournment Debate, 2-part video)

      FYI, public family law matters are held to Chatham House rules (no discussion outside the Chamber) in Star Chambers (secret courts illegal since 1640 yet Kennth Clarke has claimed that right thinking people should accept their return - sensibly, as justice must be SEEN to be done, this has not come to pass for criminal courts YET). The public are not generally given access to the hearings nor to judgements in non-anonymised (read: nonadulterated) form.

      In addition to the Chatham House Rule, there is also a clause in the Children Act 1989 (section 97) that prohibits discussion of live cases in public.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    12. Re:terrible idea, already fucked up by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      That is extremely fucked up. Thanks.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  40. The big elephant in the room. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

    Is there any evidence - I mean serious, well-studied, scientific evidence - that access to pornography is that harmful?

    I've seen a lot of scaremongering. I've seen a lot of anecdotal accounts too, plenty of people sharing their personal stories of how porn ruined their mind and their life. But what I've not seen is serious data - the few bits of real research I've found are rather dubious in methodology, and tend to be carried out by the type of organisation with 'family' in the name that can hardly be called unbiased.

    If pornography was one-tenth as harmful as anti-pornography campaigners claim, western civilisation would have collapsed by now - just about everyone has access to it and yet, somehow, the incidence of rape is actually going down. Yet the assumption remains unchallenged, because it's just too socially and politically awkward: Anyone who dares so much as suggest that maybe pornography isn't a terrible threat to children risks being branded as supporting child molestation. Society has reached the witch-hunt level: Anyone who questions the validity of the witch-hunt risks being accused of supporting the witches.

    1. Re:The big elephant in the room. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there any evidence - I mean serious, well-studied, scientific evidence - that access to pornography is that harmful?

      I heard they tried to do a study on the effects of porn.

      They had to cancel it though, they couldn't actually form a control group.

  41. You have it all wrong.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "ith the UK on the verge of trying to debate a better deal for itself within Europe, the Prime Minister is not in a particularly strong position for negotiating on the issue"

    The UK isn't fussed either way being in Europe, Cameron is in a very strong position to get what he wants.

  42. The Prime Minister is not in a particularly strong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "with the UK on the verge of trying to debate a better deal for itself within Europe, the Prime Minister is not in a particularly strong position for negotiating on the issue"

    Really? This is exactly the sort of thing which the anti-EU people love to throw around as an example of meddling foreign politicians. Cameron is not merely trying to get a better deal, he's putting membership in its entirety to the vote. Given that the other EU countries don't want us to leave, I would say the prime minister is in a very strong position to tell them to forget it, and so have a minor public victory over the EU.

  43. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  44. Right wing nuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is it that right wing nuts like Cameron always have such an unhealthy attitude towards censorship and sex? Why is it that they try to impose their backward christiano-religious 'morality' on other people by default? It's also unsurprising that these same people seem to end up being the people with the most deviant of all behaviour.
    Cameron has to learn that he can not censor the internet. It seems to be taking a long time for this fact to sink in to his particularly feeble and nasty little right wing mind. If he balkanises the internet in the UK, it will just force everyone to use anonymisation services and proxies in countries that have a better record on internet freedom. As long as it is possible to establish an encrypted connection to a different machine in a country with internet freedoms, it is utterly trivial to set up a proxy service to bypass any nazi filters imposed by the Cameron junta. Increasingly, I think government behaviour is proving beyond any doubt that we need to have pervasive encryption to keep these deranged right wing policies out of our homes and lives. I find Cameron's take on 'morality' particularly contemptible, particularly given his vicious attacks on the poor, sick, and disabled.

    1. Re:Right wing nuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, grow up, seriously.

    2. Re:Right wing nuts by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      What I really would love to know is why it's always, without fail, the conservatives who want more censorship while at the same time it is, again without fail, the conservatives who end up in weird revelations concerning nasty sexual perversions that even a long term internet user would consider ... at the very least a reason to back away slowly from them?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  45. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We need to define a "cameron" as a particularly distasteful (to prudes) sex act so that it gets blocked by the porn filter. I suggest something scatalogical. He is a little shit, after all...

    Would be nice to get May in on the action too. Some porn star should use her name. The chaos caused if we could get "may" into the filter would be hilarious.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  46. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This. Infinitely this.

    This pretentious prick is only doing this to get more votes. He won. Fuck you England.
    UKIP would have honestly been better than these prudish morons.
    Who the hell keeps voting for Conservatives?

    The worst part about it, the worst part, this prick is all for killing off public sector stuff, yet he goes and does a 180 and forces others to become the parent of every child in the country at public expense. What a diiiick.

    There will NEVER be children in my house. Ever.
    If I get that stupid warning on my screen again, like it did sporadically for a month despite it being off, I swear to fuck some pricks teeth are falling out via their spinal column.
    If this does go through, I am going to make it hell for every single ISP that agreed to it.

  47. Censoring the internet is like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Censoring the internet is like telling a person they are only allowed to walk down certain areas of a street, and wear certain clothes, and adhere to a certain speed.
    Oh wait, that is already Britain anyway.
    Carry on ol' chaps.

  48. Re:The big elephant in the room is big in Japan. by roger10-4 · · Score: 1

    FYI..."husbandry" is "the cultivation and production of edible crops or of animals for food; agriculture; farming." (Dictionary.com).

  49. Old news and not causing a problem in the UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This policy has been in place for a number of years in the UK already. Any new customers to an IPS / Mobile Carrier automatically have limited access to adult material. To get unblocked is a very simple process indeed, especially if you are a mobile user. Honestly its not causing any hassle for us Brits and its helping to protect our children from gaining access to unsubtle material.

    1. Re:Old news and not causing a problem in the UK by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      It's not. There has never been, and will never be, a way to keep a hormone driving teenager away from sex. You're trying to fight nature's most powerful instinct. Are you nuts? Or do you just enjoy running your head in on windmills?

      Well, to each their own, but some people really have weird kinks...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  50. Yet spam and cookies have to be opt-in. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And so we see the problem with these claims: they don't stand up because the exceptions disprove the rule.

  51. Clever tactic by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    I predict that one of the "great concessions" that David Cameron will gain from Europe will be permission to block porn. They will probably come up with a whole load more things that they won't sweat about dropping so that David can go back with a long list and gleefully declare that his negotiations have been very successful, whereas in reality he won't have gained many of his important targets

  52. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because they'll learn every possible bad word as well as hearing them used in complete sentences.

    And then I'll have you arrested. If you don't know how to behave around other people - children or not - you're too stupid to leave the house.

  53. Ask Abu Hamsa about allowed speech and the USA. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All that you've done is internalised what you think should and should not be free based on where you live. And anywhere restricting speech where you aren't, is anti=free speech. Any restrictions you have are seen as "reasonable" and "totally free speech compatible". I.e. conferences being able to mandate some speech not acceptable, even if it would be a breech if done by government, defended as "totally acceptable private agreement", even though neither party is private. And one doesn't get agreement except by Hobson's choice.

    1. Re:Ask Abu Hamsa about allowed speech and the USA. by swillden · · Score: 1

      Oh, I'm not claiming there are no problems. Clearly the US does have some big issues at present with some particular forms of restriction of free speech. I'm fairly confident that will get sorted out over the course of the next couple of decades, though. The pendulum is swinging that direction. Not that perfection will ever be achieved, but there really is a strong bias towards protecting freedom of expression.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    2. Re:Ask Abu Hamsa about allowed speech and the USA. by swillden · · Score: 1

      One more point: I find your choice of example to be odd, because the US charges against Hamsa have nothing to do with speech; they're about kidnapping and conspiracy to commit murder. The UK's charges against Hamsa are largely speech-related.

      Manning or Snowden would have been better examples.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  54. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    > We need to define a "cameron" as a particularly distasteful (to prudes) sex act so that it gets blocked by the porn filter. I suggest something scatalogical. He is a little shit, after all...

    Look up the old Scientology filter software, described at http://www.xenu.net/archive/ev.... The CensorWare software was embedded in the "creat a website" kit they were giving their own members, trying to flood Google searches and prevent access to the cult's inner secrets about the galactic emperor, Xenu. Hysterically, they had my name in their filter list, mis-spelled.

  55. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sexual slavery, rape, voyeurism, and lust are simply the predictable extremes. Failure to establish any sort of consequences for deviant sexual behavior and letting it become mainstream entertainment and 'safe' to indulge (rather than at least a jailable offense for everybody involved) is the problem: It encourages the deviant behavior, and it makes it impossible to prosecute before it turns into crimes perpetrated against others (it also results in a hell of a lot of hypocrisy in politics and enforcement).

  56. Try the BBC porn website! by Richard+Kirk · · Score: 1

    No, it doesn't exist. But maybe it ought to...

    The problem: lots of nasty porn where men do nasty things to ladies, and no-one seems to be smiling or enjoying themselves. Lots of poking things where they simply don't belong. LIttle information or education on how to have more fun and possibly do less harm.

    The non-solution: try and filter it out. We know this does not work, and it is unrealistic to believe it may work in the future. It is also a restriction of liberty. The only thing it might do is generate a billion pound a year industry for banning people from the internet, and then charging them to get their case heard for reconnection. That's a winner for our overlords, but not for us.

    The solution: create a better alternative. Have some independent but public body such as the BBC curate a body of knowledge and images about people doing the sexy that is representative of best practice. It should not completely exclude the more iffy stuff, but it should not dominate the regular stuff either. While ladies may prefer to read rather than look at images, such as images as there are should reflect their interests too, rather than having two models servicing some dumpy man. This would not restrict anyone's liberties because the other stuff is still there.

    It won't happen because, you know, politics and democracy and stuff. But maybe it ought to.

    1. Re:Try the BBC porn website! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      It needn't work. It only has to convince people who know even less about the internet than Cameron (scary as it may sound, those people exist) to vote for him.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  57. Funny thing is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We don't ever find out about secret efforts to block political corruption. Is that because it never happens or because it is just that secret.

    But seriously, why can't we work on legislation for real problems. Human trafficking still occurs in Europe, including the UK. Maybe they could work on that instead of going after literal wankers.

  58. Chav by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Come on, does it even sound like police slang? Council Housed And Violent is a backronym. The word almost certainly comes from the traveller community (romani or irish travellers as they are sometimes known), see wikipedia or just do a simple google search for tons of references.

  59. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by wasteoid · · Score: 1

    I have kids and I agree with you. Teach your kids to adapt to the world, not try to force the rest of the world to adapt to brats who have an unrealistic perspective.

    Also, earmuffs!

    :-)

  60. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Wheely · · Score: 1

    Harsh but fair

  61. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Wheely · · Score: 1

    Did prohibition of alcohol work well?

  62. The Cameron by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    I propose this as the name of the SI unit for the minimum distance between two blunders.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  63. blackmail? by chilenexus · · Score: 1

    This seems like a ready-made tool for blackmail and extortion. It creates a list of everyone in the country that wants access to online porn of any sort. What are the odds that no one with access to such a list would ever have any inclination to misuse it? For example, threatening to leak a relevant portion of the list to a local church group or to your employers?

    Society doesn't need to construct more barriers to use to separate people.

  64. And on a related note... by advocate_one · · Score: 1

    Virgin Media in the UK just turned their safe filter ON and I had to click the no box on the page they were displaying to disable the filtering...

    who knows what the heck they're really filtering behind the scenes... all IS related sites? anything anti-government?

    --
    Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
  65. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by OutOnARock · · Score: 1

    ....and tits shouldn't even be on the list......

    sounds like a snack.....yeah yeah I know it is...

    tater tits

    i miss George.....

  66. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by OutOnARock · · Score: 1

    two girls one cup....now see the movie

    starring Cameron May and Cheney Bush

  67. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many drunkards do you know who rightly justify themselves [when confronted over the consequences of their behavior] by asserting the failure of prohibition?

  68. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    is everyone supposed to just assume that one phenomenon somehow doesn't feed into the other?

    Unless you can demonstrate that pornography does indeed cause sex slavery, yes, people are supposed to assume that. You're proposing violating freedom of speech and expression, so it's up to you to show that pornography does indeed have the consequences you list.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  69. I for one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Support the European Union and their blow for freedom!!

    Er, not blow. Thrust! No no, that's not it. Pound! I mean hammer!

    (Awkward silence)

  70. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Deviant sexual behavior" isn't a problem at all, and shouldn't be prosecutable.

    You want to control other people's sex lives. This makes you morally equivalent to those rapists and sexual slavers you've been tossing up as strawmen.

  71. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's start with a bit of background. Below is a link to a presentation on the human trafficking industry. Should be a bit shocking, particularly if you're not well acquainted with what people do to each other when they have neither restraint, nor morals.

    http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=21141119270

  72. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And where's the evidence of a causal link to pornography?

    Yeah, that's what I thought.

  73. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You must be a great listener, seeing as it took you less than 12 minutes to listen to the entire 80 minute presentation before posting your dismissive comment.

  74. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What took me less than 12 minutes (seconds, actually) is realizing that:
    1) Your "presentation" is a religious sermon, and therefore NOT a scientific source
    2) Your openly stated purpose in presenting the link was to shock the listener with tales of cruelty and depravity, which in turn shows that you're relying on shock value as a substitute for hard evidence supporting your claim.

    Now either put up some actual evidence, or admit that you're full of shit. Those are your only possible choices, and so far you've done nothing but the latter (accidentally, but unmistakably).

  75. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why, if you won't listen to a presentation about the matter, should anyone expect you to care about facts and evidence?

    Also, check your attitude. In addition to refusing listen, cursing and insulting doesn't exactly make you look like one who is about be convinced of anything, however well supported.

    Of course, if you want to prove my assessment to be wrong, I would encourage you to take some time to review what the US Department of State has to say about Human Trafficking:
    http://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/index.htm

  76. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why, if you won't listen to a presentation about the matter, should anyone expect you to care about facts and evidence?

    I'm not going to listen to it precisely BECAUSE I care about facts and evidence. You put it up purely as an emotional argument, not a citation of facts that support your claim.

    But on the off-chance that buried somewhere in 80 minutes of sermon is some actual hard evidence showing that pornography actually causes human trafficking, why don't you point out what part of it does so?

    Also, check your attitude

    Checked and wholly validated. You are getting the attitude that your dishonesty causes you to deserve.

    In addition to refusing listen, cursing and insulting doesn't exactly make you look like one who is about be convinced of anything, however well supported.

    That's true, I'm certainly not about to be convinced of anything. Because you haven't made a convincing argument, and are getting increasingly upset at the notion of being asked to try to make one. As for "well supported", that hasn't happened.

    Of course, if you want to prove my assessment to be wrong, I would encourage you to take some time to review what the US Department of State has to say about Human Trafficking:
    http://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/index.htm

    I would advise you to take some time to review it, and see if you can find even one shred of evidence to support your claims about pornography.

    You are, again, hoping that nobody else can tell the difference between "Human trafficking exists and is a problem" and "Human trafficking is caused by pictures of naked people!". We can, and so can you, and your deliberate attempt to conflate the two proves - beyond any possibility of doubt - that you are a liar.

  77. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the attitudes, greed, and lust. Regarding people, not as humans deserving respect and dignity, but as objects to be leered at, exploited, abused, then thrown away and forgotten.

    Where pornography comes in: Taking women who are beautiful, turning them into the subject of the fantasy of any pervert, and selling to as many as possible. Lots of perverts = lots of profits.

    Aside from the occasional token platitude, no thought goes toward the consequences. No one is being dissuaded from going beyond just the pornography and seeking out women and children to abuse. We certainly don't hear about "men", not satisfied with just the magazines and videos, vacationing out in third world countries for the purpose or raping little boys (and no consequences, be they legal or social). That isn't convenient. Certainly not for those who want their smut unimpeded.

    What do we see instead: Look around this discussion. Does anybody really care about those caught up in abuse? Or is it just a blatant one-sided smear, cursing, and public shaming of anyone who attempts even a feeble pushback?

  78. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    You expect somebody to sit through a ninety-minute presentation before disagreeing with you? I don't agree that that is reasonable.

    As far as the State Department goes, those are fairly long reports. Could you indicate where they mention pornography, to facilitate the conversation?

    Look, everybody here thinks human trafficking is bad, and nonconsensual sex is bad. We just aren't convinced that porn causes that.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  79. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    What you have completely failed to show is that pornography encourages despicable behavior. Perhaps it serves as something of a relief, bleeding off internal pressures that would otherwise induce sex crimes. If porn caused sex crimes, I'd expect to see some correlation between sex crimes and porn. Recently, porn has become more and more accessible, and sex crime rates have fallen. This is hardly proof, but it is evidence that porn doesn't cause sex crimes.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  80. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the attitudes, greed, and lust. Regarding people, not as humans deserving respect and dignity, but as objects to be leered at, exploited, abused, then thrown away and forgotten.

    Where pornography comes in: Taking women who are beautiful, turning them into the subject of the fantasy of any pervert, and selling to as many as possible. Lots of perverts = lots of profits.

    Even if this weren't a blanket statement that deliberately assigns strawman motivations to thousands of people you know nothing about - and you know that it is - none of it in any way causes rape or human trafficking. Again you're making an appeal to emotion because you know that the facts are completely against you, and you're desperate to distract our attention from this truth. And again it isn't working - you simply aren't smart enough to pull it off.

    Aside from the occasional token platitude, no thought goes toward the consequences. No one is being dissuaded from going beyond just the pornography and seeking out women and children to abuse. We certainly don't hear about "men", not satisfied with just the magazines and videos, vacationing out in third world countries for the purpose or raping little boys (and no consequences, be they legal or social). That isn't convenient. Certainly not for those who want their smut unimpeded.

    You filthy lying scumbag.

    We DO hear about these things. You KNOW that we hear about them. You are choosing - willfully and maliciously - to falsely claim that we don't, so that you can pretend that your sad little obsession with porn is actually some kind of noble crusade on behalf of rape victims. But nobody buys it - not even you, deep down.

    What do we see instead: Look around this discussion. Does anybody really care about those caught up in abuse?

    You certainly don't. You WANT sex slavery and violent, widespread rape. You're overjoyed when you hear about them happening, because to you they're an excuse to demand the thing you really want: control over what other people are allowed to see and hear. If, somehow, all kind of rape and human trafficking suddenly ceased forever, you wouldn't be happy. You'd be horrified, and you'd immediately start scrambling to find a new cause to cover for your agenda.

    Or is it just a blatant one-sided smear, cursing, and public shaming of anyone who attempts even a feeble pushback?

    And you continue to lie, by trying to portray yourself as some kind of martyred hero bravely facing abuse at the hands of evil forces. You're not and you never will be. You're just a weak-minded hypocrite losing an argument on the Internet. And you know it.

  81. Re:They're your damned kids, your damned problem . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You think you can have someone arrested for saying naughty words, and you think he's too stupid to leave the house.

    If irony could be harnessed as a power source, your post would keep Times Square lit up for a month.