Slashdot Mirror
Professional Russian Trolling Exposed
An anonymous reader writes: Today the New York Times published a stunning exposé revealing the strategies used by one of the Web's greatest enemies: professional, government-backed "internet trolls." These well-paid agent provocateurs are dedicated to destroying the value of the Internet as an organizing and political tool. The trolling attacks described within are mind-boggling -- they sound like the basis of a Neal Stephenson novel as much as they do real life -- but they all rely on the usual, inevitable suspects of imperfect security and human credulity.
What you were expecting something else?
Somebody's poisoned the waterhole!
It's just about time to drag the American organized political trolling on sites like reddit, twitter, and tumblr into the open too, right?
http://i.cubeupload.com/T6cyLu.png
Boris, fire up the escape bear!
Is anybody pretending that corporations and politicians aren't already effectively doing the same thing?
Only they pretty it up with foundations and think tanks who put out position papers to benefit the talking points of the people paying for them.
Propaganda comes in many forms. And from many sources.
And even some of the people who will be hand-wringing about this propaganda will be endorsing some other stuff.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Look at any site, twitter, instagram, facebook, reddit. If you post something about say MH17 and the information about the Russians being involved, all of a sudden the trolls come out about Ukrainian aggression, whores in Kiev etc. As the TFA indicates, this can create panic considering how hooked people are on Social Media but it'll also be more than anything else, the death of anonymity on the Web. Why? because people on Social Media sites will demand it because of the trolling activities and having to filter through a bunch of propaganda and targeted misdirection.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
You're hopelessly naive if you think the US government doesn't employ something similar.
I see paid establishment shills on here every day. I'm the 7th or so comment, but this thread will lilely be full of shills complaining about Dice as to muddle discussions about.. well, them.
Isn't this essentially a dupe of the story from last March?
Internet Trolls You!
I'm a satanic clam.
Why do these "trolls" waste their time with politically-motivated noise and counterposting? They should be funded in an open campaign to force goatse on as many Internet users as possible. And similar nonsense.
Now THAT would be awesome.
It's just about time to drag the American organized political trolling on sites like reddit, twitter, and tumblr into the open too, right?
Well, astroturfing is no new tactic but ... I think what this article deals with is scale. 400 clearly skilled (bilingual at the least) individuals running multiple catfish personalities online day in and day out ... the whole thing on a budget of $400k a month? That level and size is probably unparalleled by ... say, Digg's conservative idiots.
You have one entity orchestrating the 12 hours a day work of 400 individuals on topics that are pro-Russian and tangentially pro-Russian. They are sophisticated enough to "hit play" at a certain time to unfold a natural disaster or assassination or anything to destabilize/confuse a region and they do so over many accounts on multiple social media platforms. They create video, screenshots, websites, etc. And they use proxies and sufficiently sophisticated means to appear to be disjoint at first glance.
They appear to have run an exercise on a rubber plant explosion in Louisiana for no other discernible purpose than to test out their new super powers or demonstrate their abilities to their customers/leaders.
Frankly put, I'm unaware of "American organized political trolling" that rivals this. This is paid. This is tightly controlled. This is prepared. This is unified. American organized political trolling is just a run-of-the-mill monkey shitfight with the occasional Koch Bros/Soros website (usually easily sourceable) thrown in.
Now if you can point me to a faked ISIS attack on American soil right before an election that was done by some political group stateside, I'd be interested to hear about it.
My work here is dung.
General "Buck" Turgidson: We can not allow a troll gap.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Lets keep facilitating this by keeping unregistered anonymous account postings.
There are already here on Slashdot for many years - just look for the comments - most common would be that US is also trolling what is a lie as the size of Russian trolling is orders of magnitude larger than anything any Western government has done.
It is also already spread internationally - there are dozens of Russian trolls operating in Baltic countries, Germany, Poland, Ukraina, Italy.
Read Trust me, I'm Lying -- it is a book by a self-confessed media manipulator who got depressed and left the industry. He worked for an apparel company. One example tactic was to take sexually explicit photos of porn stars, and then complain about said photos to feminist groups. And then: OUTRAGE!!!
The story of ACORN is a perfect example of how media manipulators manufactured a scandal -- literally creating reality for movement conservatives -- in order to shut the group down. To this day, some GOP congress critters are unaware that ACORN is defunct. The interesting thing is, the more outraged a person is (politically), the easier they are to manipulate. It is all rather ironic.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Nearly the whole corporate media in the United States might be regarded as government trolling, and the government as a wing of big business.
Slashdot is beginning to look like an anti-Russian propaganda website these days. The Russians are small timers, compared to the kind of wall-to-wall propaganda you see in the United States. I have been there, and every time I visit, I'm pretty shocked. Compared to even the corporate media in Europe, the level of propaganda is is shocking. Sure there are problems here to. In Britain for example, around 6 individuals own over 80% of the media. This is corrupt, but at least there doesn't seem to be the level of nationalist propaganda that you see in America. Nationalist regimes like the one in Washington are dangerous. In Europe, we have direct experience of this, both from the fallout from deranged US foreign policy, and earlier this century from nazi Germany.
It's just about time to drag the American organized political trolling on sites like reddit, twitter, and tumblr into the open too, right?
I've often wondered about certain comment threads on slashdot. Framing certain actions as "hijacking the conversation for propaganda purposes" seems to hit the Bayesian priors higher than just "a lot of people really feel that way".
The conversations attached to Uber articles are weird, not at all what one would expect.
The recent one about California raising the minimum wage was suspect: affecting roughly 2.4% of wage earners, you would expect posts like "has no effect because costs are passed on to consumers", "raising everyone's wages make costs rise to compensate", and so on to be roundly debunked by the first person to google some numbers.
It's worse around election time. In a presidential election year, about 6 weeks beforehand we start to get framing posts - some of which are quite insidious. "I agree with him on *that* issue, but everything else he stands for is batshit crazy". It seemed like every response to a Ron Paul was that way: his immediate position is OK, but it puts the "batshit crazy" idea into people's minds with no supporting evidence.
...and it's starting to happen for Rand Paul as well.
Then there's the visibility-massaging techniques: posting an opinion that's not *quite* right just to get people to respond so that text further down gets pushed below the fold where no one can see it. Posting a definition that's not *quite* right so that people argue the definition back and forth and avoid the core issues, and of course modding things down.
I sometimes monitor certain posts and see them modded down... only to see them modded up a few hours later. That indicates to me that there are people trying to promote an agenda with the moderation system, but get overruled by the general population.
In addition to participating in the conversation, take a step back and look at the overall context of the conversation some time. Instead of just responding, think about the reasoning behind *why* the person made the post that they did.
It is sometimes quite enlightening.
Western governments pay people to troll as well.
Just read the comments section of any mainstream news media site. It's pretty obvious.
Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
Four years ago the article said: "The US military is developing software that will let it secretly manipulate social media sites by using fake online personas to influence internet conversations and spread pro-American propaganda."
There is not a more recent update as to what has become of that software development effort. But we do know, that in 2011 — when the article you are linking to was talking about America's evil plans in future tense — Russian government's Internet-propaganda machine was already up and running:
Let me guess, USSR's Lavrenty Beria was a normal reaction to America's Joseph McCarthy in your opinion too?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Nyet, everything excellent in Russia, all American disasters real and American. Giant plume kill 1200 people in Louisiana city of New Orleans. Work of imperialists. American CIA responsible, deaths cover up. Real! Contact me at agent0@kremlin.gov for more big news.
Now I know why machines with Russian IP addresses so consistently try to break into my Wordpress sites. Two of three of those sites are in the formative stages and have almost no content. Russian professionals will provide, da?
I have no doubt that they studied here in the US, and probably hang out here.
I for one thinking only best great Leader Putin can for with saving our global societies.
Isn't this quaint--a post acknowledging the clear and present fact of paid trolls on slashdot, being marked as "troll" by those same paid trolls.
I wish we could get this kind of coverage in US press over scams like the fake Sandy Hook school shooting.
i come to study Mechanical Engineering at American university. i am here little time and i am very hard stress. i am gay also and this very difficult for me, i am very religion person. i never act to be gay with other men before. but after i am in america 6 weeks i am my friend together he is gay also. He was show me American video game and then we are kiss.
We sex together. I never before now am tell my mother about gay because i am very shame. As i fock this American boy it is very good to me but also i am feel so guilty. I feel extreme guilty as I begin orgasm. I feel so guilty that I pick up my telephone and call Mother in Russia. I awaken her. It too late for stopping so I am cumming sex. I am very upset and guilty and crying, so I yell her, "I AM CUM FROM SEX" (in Russia). She say what? I say "I AM CUM FROM SEX" and she say you boy, do not marry American girl, and I say "NO I AM CUM FROM SEX WITH MAN, I AM IN ASS, I CUM IN ASS" and my mother very angry me. She not get scared though.
I hang up phone and am very embarrass. My friend also he is very embarrass. I am guilt and feel very stupid. I wonder, why do I gay with man? But I continue because when it spurt it feel very good in American ass.
Except usually it's the mainstream media misinforming people in the west ;)
This is just the new generation of lying to us all - and the power elites of everywhere are either doing it, or wish they could. Just how our governments operate and they really need to be reminded they work for us.
How is this any different?
Sadly, that once a great state that Russia was, has turned itself into the rotten wastebin of humanity nurturing hidden neo fashist scumbags that are trolling even Slashdot in droves. Obviously Putin's paid trolls did a great dis-service for Russian nationals and Russian media. Nobody is going to believe any pro-Russian opinion for decades to come, associating Russian opinion with North-Korean type of ideological lies, even if sometimes they would try to speak some truth. Poor Kremlins, even their beloved Blatter had to resign today. What a disappointment for Putin's troll factories, what a waste of money.
Cool! Where do I sign up?
Table-ized A.I.
Well, I see your message modded to -1. Basically it means that not only Ukrainian but US trolls spend here moderator points, too.
Foundations of Geopolitics details a plan including riling up the riff raff in the US.
This book's author is supposedly âoeone of the chief ideologists of the [Putin] Kremlin,â
...
They're probably past it, considering the original story on US moving to automated software to do this was published back in 2011.
Russia is way late if they're still using people for everything instead of automation.
As with terrorism, this recent rise of "you disagree with me thus you must be a secret government paid sockpuppet" is by far more damaging than anything paid trolls could actually do by themselves.
I'm just pointing things out and asking the question. Your response seems to be "In my opinion, it's not so".
I posted specific examples so that people could discuss the issues and point out problems with the conclusion. Several, in fact.
You took the most vulnerable example and framed it in a "conspiracy theorist" context, and used it to frame the entire position.
That's fine, it's a good use of rhetoric, but it adds nothing new to the conversation other than "in my opinion...".
Would you care to formulate a response with examples and/or references that explain *why* raising the question is more damaging than anything the sock puppets could do?
Because looking at the chemical plant explosion hoax and Acorn hoax would indicate ro me that sock puppets can have an enormous negative effect on public opinion and government policy.
Acorn was brought down specifically to stop its voter registration drives, which is on its face an attack against the freedom of democracy.
It's really, *really* hard for me to see how "be careful of sock puppets" can rise to that level of damage.
Care to explain?
this good post comrade. deny, derail, and diminish.
we will spill the ketchup onto the french frys and salt the plates to make those capitalist pigs our bacon for breakfast!
It likely is a paid troll comment. Pointing out that others do it so you doing it is ok is very poor thinking. Things that are not ok don't suddenly become ok just because others do the same thing.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
My plutocrat can beat up your autocrat!
Table-ized A.I.
You're essentially claiming that it's in the best interest for US government trolls to out themselves as existing here on slashdot. Or maybe you're claiming he's a russian troll, just because he's stating the obvious? That's absurd, especially given how pro-russia trolling is virtually nowhere to be found on this site.
And "you doing it is ok"? How is that even relevant when the guy was posting as anon?
I've read Stanisaw Lems essay predicting it in late nineties. The essay was published in a polish "PC Magazine" and then released as part of collection as "Bomba megabitowa" which was also released in English:
http://www.bookinstitute.pl/ks...
Fuck you lying Rusky motherfuckers. Fuck you. I have something for you, if you step over the border. I sure as hell do.
We get modded down as Russian?
Things that are not ok don't suddenly become ok just because others do the same thing.
Pointing that out, while only condeming the latter, thus implying that it's okay for the other parties to do it is even poorer thinking. nice try though.
Things that are not ok don't suddenly become ok just because others do the same thing.
And the other's don't get a free pass. condemn both, or neither.
'One of the many pressing stories that remains to be told from the Snowden archive is how western intelligence agencies are attempting to manipulate and control online discourse with extreme tactics of deception and reputation-destruction. It’s time to tell a chunk of that story, complete with the relevant documents.
I want to focus and elaborate on the overarching point revealed by all of these documents: namely, that these agencies are attempting to control, infiltrate, manipulate, and warp online discourse, and in doing so, are compromising the integrity of the internet itself.'
http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/... But let's not kid ourselves: the domestic propaganda has been going on since before 2013. If you think our government actually follows the law in secret, i have a bridge to sell you.
This makes a lot of sense. Think of a site like Politico. You would think the country is filled with people who think that either Obama is a Muslim communist, or that George W was a warmongering moron trying to bring about the second coming. Most discussion boards end up devolving into a giant troll pit almost immediately. No matter what the topic, the Fox News and John Stewart crowds go for each others' jugulars, very often with no context to the article they are "commenting" upon.
One of the promises of the Internet was that it could be a town hall, a place where people from a broad swath of geographies and backgrounds could hold discourse in a public forum. Clearly, it hasn't worked out as well as it should have. We have a bunch of morons who aren't looking to debate, but to diatribe. A little nudge here, a little nudge there, and a clever trolling operative could make sure that any serious venue for political discourse quickly descends into rubbish. Troll-fed apathy develops, informed democratic involvement nosedives, which contributes to grid-locked government and a country in decline.
Are all, or even most, of the USA's problems because of foreign trolls? Of course not (plenty of home-grown corruption, poor education, etc.). Nonetheless, it seems like a cost-effective way to undermine democracy, taking advantage of free speech to encourage peoples' worse tendencies.
and here I thought there were just tons of random idiots clamoring for the taste of Putins cock. (j/k russian shills are obvious as fuck wherever they go)
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
...the real troll is the NYT article ?!?
"The trolling attacks described within are mind-boggling -- they sound like the basis of a Neal Stephenson novel as much as they do real life."
So it's all going to end up like Wacky Races?
No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.