Have you ever actually been in a criminal court? Defending yourself against even an offense as trivial as a speeding ticket is enough to make it blatantly obvious how defendants get railroaded in this country.
I know people that have gone to court and beaten speeding tickets. In some cases it was due to the state's witness not appearing (the police officer), in others is was having better evidence.
What that tells me is that persuasive evidence has to be presented in court to obtain a conviction. It may not always work out that way, but on average that is the way to bet. And that's before you get to cases where there is an affirmative defense.
Janet Reno and Eric Holder authorized mass surveillance of Americans? That's going to sting for some people, it's a little hard to blame that one on George W. Bush.
Yes it's Constitution Thursday and time to blame Bill Clinton's administration for stepping on the rights of the American people for a newly revealed outrage touching all Americans during peacetime.
Australia has a different body of law which provides different rights and obligations, a different court system, and different precedents. What might have failed in the US court system may succeed in Australia's court system. That is neither right or wrong, but it does mean that similar facts can result in different outcomes in different locales. Different political entities often reflect different values and priorities in their laws. The US has the 1st and 2nd Amendments to its Constitution which provides greater protections in those areas than most countries. On the other hand Europe has stronger data protection laws tied to the individual's rights. Australia has many fine points of its own.
Yes, he's a traitor, yet nobody can name the enemy of the US he helped, and what help they got from him.
Al Qaida, ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, North Korea, Iran,... others.
At a minimum they received copies of all published documents informing them of highly secret intelligence techniques, capabilities, programs, and strategies of the US and its allies. From this they can device counter measures or use it as a blueprint to devise capabilities of their own as Russia has done.
It is also likely that the highly capable intelligence services of various nations (such as Russian and China) were able to obtain the entire trove of stolen and leaked documents.
GCC is more than an alternative. It helps keep the commercial vendors on their toes and honest. At some level Linux has performed a similar function regarding commercial Unix vendors.
There is another possibility that you aren't accounting for: disaffection and defection prompted by ideology. If Snowden had gone to Congress I could stand behind him, but he didn't do that. He admitted that he only took his job with NSA to steal documents. Snowden is the Kim Philby of our age.
In fact I might create another healthy vegetable salad and name it after you. I'm thinking about basing it on radicchio and assorted vegetables dressed with olive oil, red wine vinegar, and lime juice. Incorporating the mrchaotica salad into my diet will probably add years to my already splendid prospects for longevity. Thanks man!
If you think I support totalitarianism you don't understand totalitarianism, me, or both.
An "establishment voice"? Hardly. It all depends on what the facts are. In the controversy about the IRS engaging in political suppression (or repression) the facts are against the IRS. In the Snowden controversy the facts are against Snowden. The interest of the Slashdot crowd in the facts varies by topic. On Climate Change the demand for facts is vehement. On the IRS is it at best mixed. On the Snowden controversy the facts are generally ignored.
I was wondering if you could clarify something for me? If the new "patriotism" consists of stealing millions of Top Secret defense documents, spreading them around the world to unvetted people to be published in newspapers for the nation's enemies to make use of them instead of going to Congress with them, and the new "treason" is apparently trying to prevent your citizen from being killed en mass, how do we separate the new "patriotism" from the old treason?
We have different ideas about who the "scum of the earth" are. I place al Qaida and ISIS in that category. The are the ones crucifying children, taking women by the thousands as sex slaves, raping, torturing, murdering, and committing genocide. Those are the same scum benefiting tremendously from Snowden's massive theft and leaking of classified documents. You don't seem to have any particular opposition to al Qaida/ISIS, you cheer Snowden who has empowered them, and yet you show utter folly in your labeling of "scum." So for you I guess it's ok to rape the women, burn the village, and crucify the men, just so long as they don't offer any criticism of Ed the thief. You aren't one of the shining lights of our age.
The First Amendment does not protect humanitarian groups or others who advise foreign terrorist organizations, even if the support is aimed at legal activities or peaceful settlement of disputes, the Supreme Court ruled Monday.
---------------
... a defense fund.
I'm not sure that Snowden needs a defense fund at the moment since he is a fugitive from justice. He doesn't seem to be involved in any US logal proceedings at present. Seems like this could be just a slush fund.
snowden, you tweaked those in the highest levels of power in the world. for that, I say THANK YOU. I wish I could do more to help you - we all owe you so much.
The funny thing is that al Qaida, China, Russia, and Iran could say the same thing.
one thing amuses me and I enjoy it quite a lot: the fact that our executive is so pissed off and annoyed, along with all the other agencies - I rather LIKE THAT!
In short you like to stick it to "The Man" even if it's "The Man" that keeps the suicide bombers out of your gay pride parade or naked protest (a San Francisco thing). I'm not sure that will work out well in the long run.
I think it would be fascinating to spend an evening at the pub with you while you explain your thinking on this (over a few pints). Consider... During the Blitz, when German bombs were falling on British cities, who was being screwed? Was it the British government, or the ordinary Britons under the bombs? During the Troubles, when the IRA set off bombs in Britain, who was being screwed? Was it the British government, or the ordinary Britons near the bombs? During the 7/7 attacks who was being screwed? Was it the British government, or ordinary Britons near the suicide bombers? In coming years, when the Security Services are unable to read messages sent by those who plan to kill Britons, and as a result are unable to disrupt those plans as they have been able to in the past (resulting in many arrests and convictions), who is it that will be screwed? Will it be the British government or ordinary Britons near the bombs? Could you be one of those ordinary Britons?
Are your values such that it is ok for other ordinary Britons to be slaughtered en mass, just so long as it doesn't inconvenience you?
The security services are like a dam holding back waves of trouble. The head of MI5 has previously stated that they can barely keep up. That was before Snowden's theft and leaks had much direct impact. Now the leaks are having an impact and the security services are likely to be breached on a more frequent basis. When that occurs, who will be screwed? The dam holding back waves, or the Britons living "down stream"?
Snowden royally screwed Great Britain.
Speaking of royalty, as a patriotic citizen of the UK, can I get a "God save the Queen!" from you?
You apparently didn't comprehend much of what you read, or understand it in context. So called "LOVEINT" constitutes about 12 cases in 10 years. That isn't "common" in any meaningful way for an organization of over 10,000 people. Losing a security clearance means you aren't going to be able to handle classified information which means you can't work at an intelligence agency. People certainly were punished. How did you miss this?
One "received a reduction in grade, 45 days restriction, 45 days extra duty, and half pay for two months. It was recommended that the subject not be given a security clearance." One "received a reduction in rank, 45 days extra duty, and half pay for two months. The member's access to classified information was revoked." One's "database access and access to classified information were suspended." One "received a written reprimand."
Would you like to give up a months' pay?
The "seven times per day" incidents weren't LOVEINT, and as noted were "mainly inadvertent." That is things like making a typo in name or phone number queries resulting in bringing up the wrong information. (You don't make 7 typos per day, do you?)
Die in a fire, please, and leave the world a better place.
You can help make the world a better place by trying to improve your poor character, giving to charity, and improving your reading comprehension. In the meantime I'll continue to try to provide good information and correct the ignorance and misconceptions of people like you.
You think that a major agency in the Department of Defense, headed by a 4 star General/Admiral, with a budget in the tens of billions of dollars that provides information to the President on a daily basis receives no oversight? And it can't figure out how to do log files and periodic audits?
You might be inhaling a little too much of that pixel dust.
Anyone holding a security clearance is subject to periodic reinvestigation.
so, clapper was investigated and found to be guilty of lying to congress? when does his sentence in prison start?
look, if you want to be taken seriously here on slash, you have to stop YOUR lying.
Let's review what I wrote:
Anyone holding a security clearance is subject to periodic reinvestigation. Things are stricter at actual intelligence agencies, including the use of polygraphs. (Spare me the discussion on them.)
The whole thing about Clapper is you trying to put words in my mouth, and falsely claiming that I'm a liar. You seem to be providing evidence that you have an integrity problem.
Tell you what, I'll throw you a bone on the Clapper thing since you can't be bothered to come to a deeper undersanding of Wyden's underhanded dealing on your own.
Anyone holding a security clearance is subject to periodic reinvestigation. Things are stricter at actual intelligence agencies, including the use of polygraphs. (Spare me the discussion on them.)
Ordinary commercial companies do things like log SQL querries, and perform audits. I would expect nothing less at intelligence agencies. Being discovered would only be a matter of time for comptuer misuse. Even Snowden's activites were detected although he managed to lie his way out of it helped by the nature of his job.
I'm pretty sure that losing your job and security clearance (for cause) counts as discipline, not 'discipline'.
So you think that the fact that individuals had a chance to cooperate with investigations and admit their wrongdoing implies that there was no other way they would be found out? You can believe that if you want to, I guess....
Don't you think that..... never mind. I keep forgetting that these posts really aren't about facts and reasoned discussion but rather about emoting, spleen venting, and the Two Minute Hate. Carry on.
Both Crimea and Eastern UKRAINE were the occupied territory of a friendly nation. Russia conducted a war of aggression which began by inflitrating special forces to begin its military conquest. Putin has admitted this, and stated his willingness to threaten the use of nuclear weapons to seize Crimea. Should we also consider the rigged election that Russia held? Do you really want to go there?
Slashdot Mirror
Have you ever actually been in a criminal court? Defending yourself against even an offense as trivial as a speeding ticket is enough to make it blatantly obvious how defendants get railroaded in this country.
I know people that have gone to court and beaten speeding tickets. In some cases it was due to the state's witness not appearing (the police officer), in others is was having better evidence.
What that tells me is that persuasive evidence has to be presented in court to obtain a conviction. It may not always work out that way, but on average that is the way to bet. And that's before you get to cases where there is an affirmative defense.
I don't think your facts showed up.
Janet Reno and Eric Holder authorized mass surveillance of Americans? That's going to sting for some people, it's a little hard to blame that one on George W. Bush.
Yes it's Constitution Thursday and time to blame Bill Clinton's administration for stepping on the rights of the American people for a newly revealed outrage touching all Americans during peacetime.
Remember Elian!
Australia has a different body of law which provides different rights and obligations, a different court system, and different precedents. What might have failed in the US court system may succeed in Australia's court system. That is neither right or wrong, but it does mean that similar facts can result in different outcomes in different locales. Different political entities often reflect different values and priorities in their laws. The US has the 1st and 2nd Amendments to its Constitution which provides greater protections in those areas than most countries. On the other hand Europe has stronger data protection laws tied to the individual's rights. Australia has many fine points of its own.
Downloading pictures of naked children would be a really bad idea for testing that theory. I strongly advise against it.
That's funny since I probably link to the Guardian more than I do Fox News.
Yes, he's a traitor, yet nobody can name the enemy of the US he helped, and what help they got from him.
Al Qaida, ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, North Korea, Iran, ... others.
At a minimum they received copies of all published documents informing them of highly secret intelligence techniques, capabilities, programs, and strategies of the US and its allies. From this they can device counter measures or use it as a blueprint to devise capabilities of their own as Russia has done.
It is also likely that the highly capable intelligence services of various nations (such as Russian and China) were able to obtain the entire trove of stolen and leaked documents.
Lots of nice C/C++ updates, a few Fortran ones. Don't see anything for Objective C or Ada.
This addition looks very interesting: Cilk Plus
Intel Cilk Plus is an extension to the C and C++ languages to support data and task parallelism.
GCC is more than an alternative. It helps keep the commercial vendors on their toes and honest. At some level Linux has performed a similar function regarding commercial Unix vendors.
There is another possibility that you aren't accounting for: disaffection and defection prompted by ideology. If Snowden had gone to Congress I could stand behind him, but he didn't do that. He admitted that he only took his job with NSA to steal documents. Snowden is the Kim Philby of our age.
Will I? ..... Let me think. ...... No.
In fact I might create another healthy vegetable salad and name it after you. I'm thinking about basing it on radicchio and assorted vegetables dressed with olive oil, red wine vinegar, and lime juice. Incorporating the mrchaotica salad into my diet will probably add years to my already splendid prospects for longevity. Thanks man!
If you think I support totalitarianism you don't understand totalitarianism, me, or both.
An "establishment voice"? Hardly. It all depends on what the facts are. In the controversy about the IRS engaging in political suppression (or repression) the facts are against the IRS. In the Snowden controversy the facts are against Snowden. The interest of the Slashdot crowd in the facts varies by topic. On Climate Change the demand for facts is vehement. On the IRS is it at best mixed. On the Snowden controversy the facts are generally ignored.
I was wondering if you could clarify something for me? If the new "patriotism" consists of stealing millions of Top Secret defense documents, spreading them around the world to unvetted people to be published in newspapers for the nation's enemies to make use of them instead of going to Congress with them, and the new "treason" is apparently trying to prevent your citizen from being killed en mass, how do we separate the new "patriotism" from the old treason?
We have different ideas about who the "scum of the earth" are. I place al Qaida and ISIS in that category. The are the ones crucifying children, taking women by the thousands as sex slaves, raping, torturing, murdering, and committing genocide. Those are the same scum benefiting tremendously from Snowden's massive theft and leaking of classified documents. You don't seem to have any particular opposition to al Qaida/ISIS, you cheer Snowden who has empowered them, and yet you show utter folly in your labeling of "scum." So for you I guess it's ok to rape the women, burn the village, and crucify the men, just so long as they don't offer any criticism of Ed the thief. You aren't one of the shining lights of our age.
Snowden won't come back if there is any chance of a fair trial. Both the law and the facts are against him.
I cannot believe anyone can make a law (in the US) that denies the ability of people to donate to the cause of their choice. ....
Supreme Court upholds ban on 'material support' to foreign terrorist groups
The First Amendment does not protect humanitarian groups or others who advise foreign terrorist organizations, even if the support is aimed at legal activities or peaceful settlement of disputes, the Supreme Court ruled Monday.
---------------
... a defense fund.
I'm not sure that Snowden needs a defense fund at the moment since he is a fugitive from justice. He doesn't seem to be involved in any US logal proceedings at present. Seems like this could be just a slush fund.
snowden, you tweaked those in the highest levels of power in the world. for that, I say THANK YOU. I wish I could do more to help you - we all owe you so much.
The funny thing is that al Qaida, China, Russia, and Iran could say the same thing.
one thing amuses me and I enjoy it quite a lot: the fact that our executive is so pissed off and annoyed, along with all the other agencies - I rather LIKE THAT!
In short you like to stick it to "The Man" even if it's "The Man" that keeps the suicide bombers out of your gay pride parade or naked protest (a San Francisco thing). I'm not sure that will work out well in the long run.
I think it would be fascinating to spend an evening at the pub with you while you explain your thinking on this (over a few pints). Consider... During the Blitz, when German bombs were falling on British cities, who was being screwed? Was it the British government, or the ordinary Britons under the bombs? During the Troubles, when the IRA set off bombs in Britain, who was being screwed? Was it the British government, or the ordinary Britons near the bombs? During the 7/7 attacks who was being screwed? Was it the British government, or ordinary Britons near the suicide bombers? In coming years, when the Security Services are unable to read messages sent by those who plan to kill Britons, and as a result are unable to disrupt those plans as they have been able to in the past (resulting in many arrests and convictions), who is it that will be screwed? Will it be the British government or ordinary Britons near the bombs? Could you be one of those ordinary Britons?
Are your values such that it is ok for other ordinary Britons to be slaughtered en mass, just so long as it doesn't inconvenience you?
The security services are like a dam holding back waves of trouble. The head of MI5 has previously stated that they can barely keep up. That was before Snowden's theft and leaks had much direct impact. Now the leaks are having an impact and the security services are likely to be breached on a more frequent basis. When that occurs, who will be screwed? The dam holding back waves, or the Britons living "down stream"?
Snowden royally screwed Great Britain.
Speaking of royalty, as a patriotic citizen of the UK, can I get a "God save the Queen!" from you?
Shall we have Jerusalem ?
Our enemies are stronger because of Edward Snowden’s treacherous betrayal
Edward Snowden leaks have left Britain 'wide open' to terrorist attack warn spy chiefs
You apparently didn't comprehend much of what you read, or understand it in context. So called "LOVEINT" constitutes about 12 cases in 10 years. That isn't "common" in any meaningful way for an organization of over 10,000 people. Losing a security clearance means you aren't going to be able to handle classified information which means you can't work at an intelligence agency. People certainly were punished. How did you miss this?
One "received a reduction in grade, 45 days restriction, 45 days extra duty, and half pay for two months. It was recommended that the subject not be given a security clearance."
One "received a reduction in rank, 45 days extra duty, and half pay for two months. The member's access to classified information was revoked."
One's "database access and access to classified information were suspended."
One "received a written reprimand."
Would you like to give up a months' pay?
The "seven times per day" incidents weren't LOVEINT, and as noted were "mainly inadvertent." That is things like making a typo in name or phone number queries resulting in bringing up the wrong information. (You don't make 7 typos per day, do you?)
Die in a fire, please, and leave the world a better place.
You can help make the world a better place by trying to improve your poor character, giving to charity, and improving your reading comprehension. In the meantime I'll continue to try to provide good information and correct the ignorance and misconceptions of people like you.
Have a great day.
Out of touch with the world she lives in
yet holding a position of responsibility for it
so fucking stupid
That's not "stupid," that's today's California.
You think that a major agency in the Department of Defense, headed by a 4 star General/Admiral, with a budget in the tens of billions of dollars that provides information to the President on a daily basis receives no oversight? And it can't figure out how to do log files and periodic audits?
You might be inhaling a little too much of that pixel dust.
Feel free to read the NSA IG's letter in this story:
NSA offers details on 'LOVEINT'
Anyone holding a security clearance is subject to periodic reinvestigation.
so, clapper was investigated and found to be guilty of lying to congress? when does his sentence in prison start?
look, if you want to be taken seriously here on slash, you have to stop YOUR lying.
Let's review what I wrote:
Anyone holding a security clearance is subject to periodic reinvestigation. Things are stricter at actual intelligence agencies, including the use of polygraphs. (Spare me the discussion on them.)
And here is evidence:
Periodic Reinvestigations
The whole thing about Clapper is you trying to put words in my mouth, and falsely claiming that I'm a liar. You seem to be providing evidence that you have an integrity problem.
Tell you what, I'll throw you a bone on the Clapper thing since you can't be bothered to come to a deeper undersanding of Wyden's underhanded dealing on your own.
Clapper and Wyden: Scenes from a Sandbagging
Wyden’s Stunt Was Congress at its Worst
`
Anyone holding a security clearance is subject to periodic reinvestigation. Things are stricter at actual intelligence agencies, including the use of polygraphs. (Spare me the discussion on them.)
Ordinary commercial companies do things like log SQL querries, and perform audits. I would expect nothing less at intelligence agencies. Being discovered would only be a matter of time for comptuer misuse. Even Snowden's activites were detected although he managed to lie his way out of it helped by the nature of his job.
I'm pretty sure that losing your job and security clearance (for cause) counts as discipline, not 'discipline'.
So you think that the fact that individuals had a chance to cooperate with investigations and admit their wrongdoing implies that there was no other way they would be found out? You can believe that if you want to, I guess ....
Don't you think that ..... never mind. I keep forgetting that these posts really aren't about facts and reasoned discussion but rather about emoting, spleen venting, and the Two Minute Hate. Carry on.
Boooo NSA! Hissss! Teh Traiterz!
Both Crimea and Eastern UKRAINE were the occupied territory of a friendly nation. Russia conducted a war of aggression which began by inflitrating special forces to begin its military conquest. Putin has admitted this, and stated his willingness to threaten the use of nuclear weapons to seize Crimea. Should we also consider the rigged election that Russia held? Do you really want to go there?
That wasn't the case in the Falklands.