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NSA's Former General Council Talks Privacy, Security, and Snowden's 'Betrayal'
blottsie writes: In his first interview since retiring as general council to the NSA, Rajesh De offers detailed insights into the spy agency's efforts to find balance between security and privacy, why the NSA often has trouble defending itself in public, the culture of "No Such Agency," and what it was like on the inside when the Snowden bombshell went off. He describes the mood after the leaks: "My sense of it was that there were two overriding emotions among the workforce. The first was a deep, deep [feeling] of betrayal. Someone who was sitting next to them—being part of the team helping keep people safe, which is really what people at the agency think they are doing—could turn around and do something so self-aggrandizing and reckless. There was also a deep sense of hurt that a lot of what was in the media was not entirely accurate. Questioning the motives and legality of what NSA employees were being asked to do to keep Americans safe—all within the legal policy construct that we've been given—that was difficult for the NSA workforce."
So as long as my boss tells me it's okay to torture people and routinely violate the Consittution, it's okay?
Fuck you, cowardly anti-democratic traitor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_counsel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_council
"The first was a deep, deep [feeling] of betrayal. Someone who was sitting next to themâ"being part of the team helping keep people safe, which is really what people at the agency think they are doingâ"could turn around and do something so self-aggrandizing and reckless"
Yeah like you betrayed our trust by spying on us all.
That feeling that someone finally caught them doing what they knew most people would consider unconstitutional? Nobody experienced that within the NSA?
No worse than the betrayal of your agency spying on us innocent citizens...?
If they all feel that we are just completely unappreciative of all their hard work spying on us, they should all quit... or go on strike atleast.
I don't want to hear about how things are inside the NSA so much as what Congress is doing to fix these laws that can be "misinterpreted" so badly. It's easy and low-friction to just accuse the NSA but the blame belongs on the shoulders of congress, both those members doubtlessly complying due to the availability of blackmail material and those complying because they want to be the top dogs in a 1984 universe.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
A council is a group of persons who meet to decide things. A counsel is an attorney or other advisor. I'm pretty sure this story refers to the latter. This is not exactly an obscure or little-used difference of homonyms - please correct.
"95% of all Slashdot
What aren't you in prison, rotting right next to all the other NSA leaders who betrayed their country and its Constitution?
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
"We let this man into our very own bunker, where we monitor everything that everyone says, even our bosses," said Rajesh De. "And then he went and told our bosses what we were doing. Let me tell you, it was a deep,deep sense of betrayal."
This is too insightful for Godwin's law to apply here.
There are no whistle-blower at ethical and moral institutions.
People at bletchly Park knew that people were going to die in German attacks. They didn't warn these people because that would show the Germans that their codes were cracked. This was the belief in a greater moral outcome resulting from keeping quiet. The NSA doesn't have that moral high ground and thus... You get whistle blowers.
Simply put, the NSA is an ethical challenged institution. If it weren't, they would have nothing to fear.
My Sanctimonious BS meter just wrapped its needle around the peg!
There was also a deep sense of hurt that a lot of what was in the media was not entirely accurate. Questioning the motives and legality of what NSA employees were being asked to do to keep Americans safe.
People who confuse or purposely use law as a synonym for morality are not to be trusted... The focus could not be more clearly on morality in this case.
Indeed, they were part of the "team keeping people safe", for narrow definitions of "people" and "safe".
This reminds me of an account (and go fuck yourself if you eant to "lol Godwin" - it has nothing to do with argument validity) of a Jewish man who joined an SS division after hiding his heritage. He talked of the great spirit of camaraderie and tight loyalty, but that if anyone had found out he was Jewish, they'd have killed him without question.
Organised evil is all about a strong sense of loyalty to your co-conspirators - because that is all that's left when there's no conscience to lead you.
If you read the article, he talks about how they have "policies" against indiscriminate snooping. But it's all a lot of talk. For example, he says the FISA court "can be quite harsh" in their written opinions -- as if this were a real consequence. Maybe it's a big deal for a lawyer, but there's an extremely large cultural divide between lawyers and non-lawyers.
No one will be reassured by any of these statements. Nor should they be, if this is the best story the NSA can tell.
Rajesh De, you are so full of shit. The truth is you spineless fucks have been taking the country over and implementing some of the worst totalitarian wet dreams the world has ever seen. Most of it was illegal, in a position of National Security that is akin to treason. Any nation is a product of the laws an the ethos upon which it was built, the minute you undermine that, for whatever reason, you are the enemy, you are the traitor.
We all know this is systemic throughout the intelligence agencies and the Pentagon. Mainly driven by corporate greed and morons that couldn't tell the difference between true patriotism and criminal activity if it came up and slapped them in the face. The reason that you are so worried about the "team", is because if they knew what you bastards were doing to Americans, US troops, your allies and the general public, they would put bullets in you.
Everyone knows that you guys represent a small group of investors; arms dealers, oil barons, etc., and you don't give a flying fuck about the American people. As long as the cash is rolling into the bank, that's all that matters.
All this bullshit about compartmentalised secrets to protect the nation, when you are telling the Chinese and Russia everything in detail behind closed doors. As long as the public is kept in the dark, then you and your ilk remain in political control of the US. But the facade is crumbling, you can't hide an oligarcy forever, especially as it decends into chaos.
Good luck you fuck, die well.
efforts to find balance between security and privacy
That must be a short article, on par with "famous Jewish sports legends".
Your first and absolute responsibility is to the Constitution.
The NSA has failed miserably in that role.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
... Lucifer complained about God's betrayal and claimed that Hell has got to be hot, which is fully within the framework he is supposed to operate in and there is really nothing he can do about it.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
Jeezus, who the hell does he think he's kidding? No, the NSA mission is not to keep Americans safe, its to serve and protect the increasingly convergent interests of the global elite.
The rhetorics and practices of "keeping our people safe" and "fighting the enemy" are well polished. The 3rd Reich did not invent them, they merely perfected them. The books by Goebbels are still used to train people in that business. The NSA employees that cannot see what they are part of are just more useful idiots. There is an endless supply of useful idiots that are willing to believe without verification or question if the propaganda just comes from some authority. These people make the building blocks of any totalitarian, fascist or otherwise extremist state or organization.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
See subject: The NSA isn't chartered to do domestic surveillance, the FBI is (were the latter to do it, that'd be another matter entirely - NOT that I 'champion' gathering data on *EVERYONE* as being right - it's not: INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY!).
* I do however, understand 1 thing: EVERY "gathering of men" (from fratboys to world ruling councils etc.) has GOOD people, & BAD people - it all depends on THEIR "point-of-view" (or, rather, that of their MASTERS they kow-tow to) - some of your people are probably APPALLED as well as what you said... they're the GOOD ones (those who are appalled).
APK
P.S.=> Feel free to correct me where I am off/wrong here... apk
Oh boo hoo for the agency that is so non-constitutional. Every one of them should be fired and the entire organization rebuilt from the ground up, though I doubt this will happen.
Who would hire a lawyer that has a history of speaking poorly of previous clients? This article is nothing more than a free commercial for De.
Tonight on our program, a man who made his living defending the practices of a massive extra-legal spying organization will defend the practices of that organization. But first, a look at sports.
1) The NSA is aware of computer software vulnerabilities and exploits by other unscrupulous entities, yet they hoard this information rather share with the public (they are mandated to protect). Imagine how much safer American computers would be from say, phishing and ransomeware that affects even public institutions like schools should the NSA actually try to help them. 2) A lot of NSA espionage resources are dedicated to industrial espionage of foreign entities to maintain economic hegemony for a handful of corporate interests rather than American business at large. 3) Retroactive punishment. Web activity is stored and mined should future laws be broken to retroactively punish a populace or build profiles. For instance, someone takes part in a protest such as the occupy movement. That person's web life becomes an opportunity to search and find anything incriminating, no matter how trivial. 4) Mandated sharing of raw intelligence gathering with Israel, without reciprocity. Rather than empowerment, the NSA seems more of a repressive regime tool.
"SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
Questioning the motives and legality of what NSA employees were being asked to do to keep Americans safe ...
Translation: We were just following orders ...
Translation: ... because 'war on terror'.
I don't want to use Godwin but the parallels are frightening. The USA's slide into Nazism is mentioned in the 'End of America' but there is a difference. In 1930s Germany there was a campaign of violence to enable a political coup. In the USA, the politicians happily enabled secret laws, secret prisons, suspension of 'habeus corpus', torture, mass surveillance, mass robbery and a 'guilty until proven innocent' policy.
It's not a matter of whether or not it's LEGAL, it's a matter of whether or not it's RIGHT.
Counsel, as in general counsel or legal counsel is spelled counsel.
No, fuck all that crying. It SHOULD be difficult for them. Anyone with as much power as the NSA should have to account for every damn thing they do on domestic and friendly soil. Fuck the delusional workers who think they're doing the public a great service. It's time for them to wake up and understand that they're goddamn pawns in the game of circumventing democracy so the rich and powerful can stay rich and powerful.
The NSA broke the public trust in a major way, and they deserve all the criticism and skepticism they get.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
If anyone still actually remembers the '90's and the lucidity that came along with them, you might also recall the vastly different attitude Americans had toward government secrecy. It was essentially EXPECTED that they were keeping huge secrets from us, regarding aliens, physics, psychology, etc.
Now we seem to have entered a deep sleep in which all of that is forgotten and all we take are opinions we picked up from the media pundits.
Sure it's easier than facing the truth, but how many of you out there seriously don't remember how different the intellectual climate was before those towers fell?
n/m
Damn that Snowden and his betrayal of the trust of an agency whose modus operandi is betraying trust.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Oh, the poor, poor people at the NSA. They blatantly violate the highest law of the land under the flimsiest and most twisted of policies. They can pretend all they want that what they are doing is legal, but NOTHING congress or even FISA does can make it so... not without a constitutional amendment. And we are supposed to feel bad for them? I think not. They are not the victims here... the millions, nay billions of innocent people they just can't help spying on are the actual victims. I don't care if they think they are protecting people, the evidence suggests they are doing the opposite.
I think the original poster means counsel....
In the face of real enemies your rhetoric falls apart.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
They're so deeply closeted and out of touch with the meaning of ethical public service that they don't even recognize when the means they use hit at the very heart of the freedom and democracy that they are supposedly protecting. It is indeed sad.
Rajesh just doesn't seem to realize that his agency is doing wrong, nor that the NSA's actions are so far beyond the pale that Snowden's whistleblowing was an absolutely necessary action for righting a wrong. "Betrayal" of sociopathic actors in government is every citizen's duty, part of protecting their government's integrity.
" Someone who was sitting next to them—being part of the team helping keep people safe, which is really what people at the agency think they are doing—could turn around and do something so self-aggrandizing and reckless"
That explain the lack of mirror in the NSA HQ.
I've heard the accusations and the self-serving denials and the spin of crusading bloggers. Get someone on the stand, under oath, subject to cross-examination, and then we'll have something to talk about.
Those who work at "No Such Agency" go to great lengths to stay within the lines of the 4th amendment, U.S. laws, and policy and procedures. Folks on ./ can stand on their soap box and scream foul all they want. Folks on ./ are not inside those walls and are off base with their venom. -signed someone who knows how it is
Time to get rid of those toy soldiers and replace them with real ones.
I bet it WAS difficult talking yourself into taking away privacy, and condemning encryption to "save you from the terrorists"
Aaaaaand fail. In the face of an existential threat from enemies, maybe. But nothing like that is anywhere in sight. Hint: You have been successfully manipulated, and you are not even aware of it. Makes you one more "useful idiot".
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Work for NSA and become a lying piece of shit.
"He is a good German..."
I believe the guy, at least partially. Probably a lot of NSA drones are honest, decent people that knew very little about all the dirty shit that the agency is pulling. In an organization that size you can't keep secrets very long unless you can compartmentalize information. There are probably a lot of low level people who work for the NSA because they believe in protecting America.
Of course that makes the small group(s) of filthy fuckers that are in the know and driving this stuff all that more guilty, for doing illegal shit in the first place, and then conspiring to cover it up. If I ran the DOJ, I would fire off a massive witch hunt to convict everyone in charge at the NSA with treason. Hang the lot of them, they have done more to damage US internal and external interests than Snowden could ever manage.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
...burnin' down the house
you have little credibility if you can't do something basic like spell
First we need a real set of whistle blower laws, so that new Snowdens can report stuff that is against the law, like he tried to report but got ignored. These new laws need to say in effect:
- No entity can do things that are against the law, not even secret entities that try to claim they are above the law. Report them the instant they try.
- Everyone above the "lowest company position that has knowledge of the infraction" likewise has knowledge and goes to jail. No plausible deniability.
- Everyone is required to declare anything they know of that is against the law or be guilty of simply not reporting it if nothing else.
- You can't just "interpret" the words to change the law.
- Everybody that breaks a law pays for it; none of this lying to Congress with no penalty. None of this "CEO takes a 50M golden parachute and retires." None of this scapegoat goes to jail and it's business as usual.
- You can't just hire an entity in a different country to do something that you are not allowed to do yourself (GCHQ spying on things NSA is not allowed to spy on). "I didn't know how they did it" is not an excuse.
- Now how do you do this so that an upset ex employee can't just cause mischief for mischief's sake.
- Now how do you handle a country that has no such rules. We may need to make laws that say XYZ can be done and say it publicly. What about countries that clandestinely do XYZ and say they never do it?
I wonder how much the TLA's troll here.
"being part of the team helping keep people safe, which is really what people at the agency think they are doing"
If this is exactly what he said, then haha.
nazis felt to be threatened by the mortal enemy of communism. and indeed millions of people were killed by the commies for just being what we call farmers these days.
so....humanity sometimes is a meatgrinder
I do not see Americans going to the streets and protest against the NSA abuse, or the continuous drone killing on Presidential orders, or the training and arming of jihadists to fight US unfriendly states.
Americans do need a reality check, before some nutcase in Washingtoin starts WWIII.
I was missing you! Where've you been all that long?
> I keep forgetting that these posts really aren't about facts [...]
The NSA having trampled over everything sacred in our democratic and state-of-right constitutions isn't a fact because...?
> emoting, spleen venting, and the Two Minute Hate. Carry on.
You're talking about yourself here, right?
If our founding fathers were alive to learn NSA is doing, they would be grabbing their muskets from the walls!
Shame on you NSA.
Shame on you Congress for empowering them to do it.
Shame on us for re-electing them.
Shame on them for brainwashing us.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
Counsel, not "council."
Seriously, those that deliver information to the public are heroes. Our nation must no be so weak kneed that we need secrets. Voting means nothing when the public has no right to know. Example : Does our military need more funding or less funding? How the heck can we know when we do not know the capabilities of our military? Some senator preaching in the senate may make all kinds of claims but that may be based on bringing home the pork chops rather than military needs.
Coming from an agency who's entire public record can be summed up by the words "not entirely accurate" ...
...
...
Shit, dog, I got nothin.
I want this account deleted.
At giving non-answers to questions. I quit reading halfway through, but I don't think this guy gave even a single meaningful answer to any question that was asked.
He is good at giving non-answers that seem like answers, I'll give him that.