Not to mention the fact that there are RPM, DEB and TGZ packages instead of "one way" to get software onto your box.
Something like Autopackage already provides this:-) The reason I was silent about it, is because it's asking for flames most of the time. Autopackage files install in the right location for every system. They also offer tools to compile your software in such way it can actually run on older systems and different distributions.
Autopackage doesn't intent to replace RPM/DEB/TGZ, since these packages are quite good for managing core stuff; a base system [1]. On top of this, their format allows endusers to install the latest version of their favorite end-user/desktop applications: Gaim, Firefox, etc.. I think this separation of core/end-user is a Good Thing(TM) and would improve the landscape a lot.
[1]: it's 2 months since I've released a new version of my OSS project, and none of the major distro's have updated their repositories yet. In the meantime, I'd rather allow endusers to install the latest version through Autopackage or from source. The central-repository model doesn't really scale here for me.;-)
The talk about the LSB is nice, but one of the major problems of Linux is the diverse locations where KDE and GNOME are installed. Some use/usr, others use/opt/kde3, or/opt/kde/3.x. Does the LSB already address this issue?
These diverse paths are the main reason I can't deploy one RPM/DEB/TGZ package for all Linux distributions.
All mainstream package formats have the full installation path hard-coded in the archive. LSB does not address this yet. The other problem of RPM, namely binary compatibility between different library versions, is already solved by compiling with apbuild. This works surprisingly easy, and allows my to provide one single package that can be installed everywhere [1].
[1] I can recommend to compile packages at Slackware because Slackware ships most packages without patches. Compiling an app at SuSE for example, made binaries depend on ABI changes caused by SuSE patches.
CrystalSpace requires good C++ and 3d skills, but its a very nice open source 3d coding system.
Wasn't the review about small desktop-games, instead of going for the big projects with bigger risks they won't get anywhere?
It is squarely intended at the hobby coder who wants to work on what the book calls "desktop games" -- not the multi-million dollar multimedia productions that demand a new graphics card every half year, but the games that you play while thinking out a knotty problem or that have some educational value for your kids. The kind of project a single coder, or a small team can complete and maintain while still staying sane.
Does CrystalSpace support multiplayer networking already BTW?
From the review, I get the idea that the focus of the book is actually contributing to Open Source, scratching an itch as hobby.
The money comes later when you apply for a job in the industry, and can point out some first-hand examples of what you can already do. Plus you'll have some experience already.
With my own application for a job, I've actually used my own Open Source project and website as examples for the conversation, with great success.:-) Your milage may vary off course, and I must admit I've got lucky it's a small company with a technical-oriented atmosphere.
The Article is a merketing blurb, anybody knows how it's actualy implemented?
I wouldn't care if even whole the whole process is marketing blulb. It would still give enterprises a focus, suits a confident feeling, and directions for making Linux drivers available.
It's really nice to see how Novell acknowledges get "getting source in the kernel.org tree" is the best practice, and fueling arguments for that. They also refer to DKMS, and acknowlegde they need the Linux community to make this a unified solution instead of a SuSE-only one.:-)
So far this sounds like an interesting strategy, positioning Novell as partner that brings both parties together (Enterprises and Kernel.org developers). At the same time, the the development of Linux drivers also gets a lift.
If you're looking for a simple RPC mechanism over AJAX, I can recommend Xajax. It allows to you write RPC-calls in both directions: from JavaScript to PHP and from PHP to JavaScript. Since it's a simple small base library (LGPL!), you can become quote fluent in AJAX quickly.
When your site has different requirements, GWT might be the way to go. They certainly know how to please developers with interesting technologies.:-)
All these java libraries bundled with the JDK should be more modular with a lean core distro and then the rest can be organized and installed as modules.
So you mean that the distribution should decide which modules/classes it should omit?
That could cripple the standard platform of Java modules developers can depend on. It could cause worst-case scenario's like this one, quoting:
Debian has packaged Wine in a way different to upstream, and this can cause extremely subtle bugs. One incident that sticks in my mind is where I wasted an entire Sunday afternoon and evening working with a user to track down why a program was crashing when they selected a menu item. It turned out that when the program started it was querying a registry key that didn't exist, and squirreling away a NULL pointer in some internal data structure. And when it tried to access that key it crashed. Why was the key missing? Because the installer invoked the regedit.exe program to merge a pre-written.reg file into the registry, which is more convenient than using the registry apis. No error checking of course because on Windows this cannot fail. And why was regedit.exe missing? Because Debian decided it looked like a "utility" and as such should be in an optional package
What is going to take for the open source community to fight back? To stop porting code to Windows? To stop releasing Firefox for Windows? To create artificial incompatibilities - I know that's counter-productive, but let's talk politics and economics, for a second.
Well, I'm going to get a good laugh if KDE4 (actually the libs only) are ported to Windows and form a nice alternative to.Net based applications while being truly cross-platform. Not that I'm confident it will happen but it has a lot of potential and possibilities. MS is watching KDE closely, for a good reason, and they're actively visiting KDE conferences.:-D
What I noticed is GNOME 2.14 took a lot of features that are already in KDE, or got into one of the recent releases of KDE:
* the search bars in all applications, like Thunderbird also has. * viewing man/info pages from the GUI. * magnetic window borders. * fast user switching menu. * switch users from a locked session. * editor with sftp/ftp/webdav support. * editor plugins, for running "make" etc.. * preferred application defaults * sound preferences. * user lock-down editor for administrators * terminal speed.. Konsole already knows how to speed up output like "ls -lR". Konsole with a transparent background beats a plain blank xterm.
So much for screaming how KDE suffers from the "not invented here" syndrome..:-p
I managed throughout to keep my mouth shut, because some of the distinct hatred of Microsoft was so reminiscent of Ballmer throwing chairs. [...] Is it sheer hatred, or is it totally just idiocy on the part of those guys?
I guess this is true. But it also happens within the community. You've mentioned the developer tools are laughable. At this moment, I'm happily writing Linux applications with a Qt/KDElibs based solution. These two libraries offer an all-in-one solution, like.Net and Java in Windows (Qt is also used by Google, Adobe, etc..). But at the same time you have people fiercefully reject such solution.
The weird part is, you have the practical enthusiastic developers and communities at one side (yes I'm biassed:-)). And there are have people who like to code a whole desktop in low-level C or some even believe a text-based desktop will conqueror the world and one license will change the software land.
But always remember that philosophers and zealots don't code.. It's the engineers that do.
Conspiracy theories don't need reasons backing them up
You've got a good point here and it describes the other side of of Steve Gibson. After reading that site, you'll understand his stories are mostly made of popular speak or disinformation, rather then scientifical information.
So while you may admire him for his charisma, you shouldn't for his expertise. Would you e-mail him about an error, he'll silently correct it as if he'd always known it. You won't find him at an official security conference, but in the eyes of his fanbase he remains a god. I can image people are felling for his stories through, his stories make you get excited easily.
The kernel maintainers have as policy that they won't give you a stable source interface, if you want your driver to work well you should get it into the kernel (See Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt). That's fair enough, but a policy like that gives them a responsibility to accept things into the kernel.
It's also their responsability to reject worse coded patches. Linus is known to refuse patches - no matter how sexy the feature is - until they have the quality he wants to see.
Therefore, I suggest that the GPL state that works covered by the GPL may not be DRM'ed at all.
Such cause would be a violation of the "License Must Not Restrict Other Software" rule in the Open Source definition. Distributors of software have the right to make their own choices about their own software. Opening a legal door only to allow de-encryption is a powerful tool, which shouldn't be underestimated even if it's just a theoretical option.
Did you know all ebuild scripts are written in Bash? You mention Gentoo as Python enabled but it actually has to read through tons of shell scripts to index the portage tree (after emerge sync). Tools like "qpkg -l" are slow compared to a "rpm -ql" command.
This will mean that in future, all native Windows applications will easily run on Linux, with Mono. Will all major Windows applications be rewritten to.NET? I just can't imagine Adobe, Autodesk, Corel, etc. translating their code to.NET in the near future.
Don't expect a easy transition. Mono can only implement the core stuff, because things like WinFX and WinForms are covered with patents. They've implemented their own gui toolkit instaead (Gtk#). IIRC they made the migration path from WinForms to Gtk# relatively easy.
Other options to write nice cross-platform tools are:
Qt from Trolltech. They offer a great class library like.Net and Java do.
The upcoming KDE4 libs/framework classes will also support Windows.
Although the average slashdot uses rants about KDE/QT, they shouldn't be underestimated. Trolltech has some enthousiastic customers and the Windows-port for the kde4-libs raised some eyebrows of commercial parties too.:-)
That isn't strict mode. That's transitional, which is why the word transitional is used instead of strict.
I'm actually referring here to Quirks and Strict/Standards mode. The rendering of your page depends on the doctype you choose. The XHTML Transitional doctype also triggers strict/standards rendering mode in your browser.
If I write my page and assume one model [width interpretation] then it will break in another browser. You can't just write to "the standard" because then your pages will look like crap. I can't tell my customer that "W3C says to do it this way, so sorry it looks like shit in IE".
Sounds like you never heared of the CSS code to make things work..
You can write the following CSS:
anElement { padding: 20px; width: 200px; }
* html anElement { width: 240px;/* width + padding for msie5 */ w\idth: 200px;/* width restored for msie6 */ }
This is indeed a hack, but it's relatively safe. The "* html" selector only works in MSIE, it's valid CSS. MSIE believes there is another element above the html tag. The w\idth is valid CSS too, hexacedimal/special characters can be escaped. This is something MSIE 6 supports, so it reads the correct width too. As of MSIE7, it supports the correct model and they've fixed the "* html" selector bug, so your code continues to work in the future too.
And voila, the site works in all browsers.. Remember to put the following at the top of the page, so it triggers the same rending mode [strict mode] in all browsers:
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transition al.dtd">
Get people who are not experts, see how many problems they run into doing simple tasks that they're familiar with on Windows. See how many of these they can solve themselves.
Sounds like they did with http://betterdesktop.org/ It's really interesting to see new users struggle with basic tasks in your favorite apps. Simple things, like "add your friend to the addressbook". Some tasks are really hard even if users claim it's the best program in the world.
Now, knowing Gentoo this will be in the tree in the next 5 minutes. Woo, emerge is gonna be hot tonight, and tomorrow, and the day after, and probably some time after that too....;)
I never really understood why people always have to mention Gentoo already has it. SuSE also updated their supplementary mirrors for example. The huge difference is, you don't have to compile for hours to get the updates. For SuSE download time == update time. In Gentoo it takes another day before you can enjoy KDE 3.5...:-)
Anyone here using KOffice in a "real world" environment? The last time I attempted using it, I found it had tonnes of bugs!
KOffice has a separate release, so it's not included with KDE 3.5. The upcoming version of KOffice looks promising, with better ODF support, better GUI tools, etc.. But I don't use KOffice yet either, maybe the new version will be good enough to make a switch.
Slashdot Mirror
Something like Autopackage already provides this :-) The reason I was silent about it, is because it's asking for flames most of the time. Autopackage files install in the right location for every system. They also offer tools to compile your software in such way it can actually run on older systems and different distributions.
Autopackage doesn't intent to replace RPM/DEB/TGZ, since these packages are quite good for managing core stuff; a base system [1]. On top of this, their format allows endusers to install the latest version of their favorite end-user/desktop applications: Gaim, Firefox, etc.. I think this separation of core/end-user is a Good Thing(TM) and would improve the landscape a lot.
[1]: it's 2 months since I've released a new version of my OSS project, and none of the major distro's have updated their repositories yet. In the meantime, I'd rather allow endusers to install the latest version through Autopackage or from source. The central-repository model doesn't really scale here for me. ;-)
All mainstream package formats have the full installation path hard-coded in the archive. LSB does not address this yet. The other problem of RPM, namely binary compatibility between different library versions, is already solved by compiling with apbuild. This works surprisingly easy, and allows my to provide one single package that can be installed everywhere [1].
[1] I can recommend to compile packages at Slackware because Slackware ships most packages without patches. Compiling an app at SuSE for example, made binaries depend on ABI changes caused by SuSE patches.
Wasn't the review about small desktop-games, instead of going for the big projects with bigger risks they won't get anywhere?
Does CrystalSpace support multiplayer networking already BTW?The money comes later when you apply for a job in the industry, and can point out some first-hand examples of what you can already do. Plus you'll have some experience already.
With my own application for a job, I've actually used my own Open Source project and website as examples for the conversation, with great success. :-) Your milage may vary off course, and I must admit I've got lucky it's a small company with a technical-oriented atmosphere.
I wouldn't care if even whole the whole process is marketing blulb. It would still give enterprises a focus, suits a confident feeling, and directions for making Linux drivers available.
It's really nice to see how Novell acknowledges get "getting source in the kernel.org tree" is the best practice, and fueling arguments for that. They also refer to DKMS, and acknowlegde they need the Linux community to make this a unified solution instead of a SuSE-only one. :-)
So far this sounds like an interesting strategy, positioning Novell as partner that brings both parties together (Enterprises and Kernel.org developers). At the same time, the the development of Linux drivers also gets a lift.
When your site has different requirements, GWT might be the way to go. They certainly know how to please developers with interesting technologies. :-)
so you're saying everyone should keep this reference next to their PC's to be able to install software...?
So you mean that the distribution should decide which modules/classes it should omit?
That could cripple the standard platform of Java modules developers can depend on. It could cause worst-case scenario's like this one, quoting:
From the INSTALL documentation in the download:
You don't need to be root because the SQL On Rails installer will just use the appropriate priviledge escalation method for your OS version.ghehe..
Well, I'm going to get a good laugh if KDE4 (actually the libs only) are ported to Windows and form a nice alternative to .Net based applications while being truly cross-platform. Not that I'm confident it will happen but it has a lot of potential and possibilities. MS is watching KDE closely, for a good reason, and they're actively visiting KDE conferences. :-D
What I noticed is GNOME 2.14 took a lot of features that are already in KDE, or got into one of the recent releases of KDE:
:-p
* the search bars in all applications, like Thunderbird also has.
* viewing man/info pages from the GUI.
* magnetic window borders.
* fast user switching menu.
* switch users from a locked session.
* editor with sftp/ftp/webdav support.
* editor plugins, for running "make" etc..
* preferred application defaults
* sound preferences.
* user lock-down editor for administrators
* terminal speed.. Konsole already knows how to speed up output like "ls -lR". Konsole with a transparent background beats a plain blank xterm.
So much for screaming how KDE suffers from the "not invented here" syndrome..
Whoops.. something I've overlooked, and no it was not my intention to bring down kde-look
Actually, it seams some people are creating a hype with mockups from KDE4 Brainstorm at kde-look.
I guess this is true. But it also happens within the community. You've mentioned the developer tools are laughable. At this moment, I'm happily writing Linux applications with a Qt/KDElibs based solution. These two libraries offer an all-in-one solution, like
The weird part is, you have the practical enthusiastic developers and communities at one side (yes I'm biassed
But always remember that philosophers and zealots don't code.. It's the engineers that do.
NFS=No File Security
I think you've misspelled the word Fucking...
Conspiracy theories don't need reasons backing them up
You've got a good point here and it describes the other side of of Steve Gibson. After reading that site, you'll understand his stories are mostly made of popular speak or disinformation, rather then scientifical information.
So while you may admire him for his charisma, you shouldn't for his expertise. Would you e-mail him about an error, he'll silently correct it as if he'd always known it. You won't find him at an official security conference, but in the eyes of his fanbase he remains a god. I can image people are felling for his stories through, his stories make you get excited easily.
The kernel maintainers have as policy that they won't give you a stable source interface, if you want your driver to work well you should get it into the kernel (See Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt). That's fair enough, but a policy like that gives them a responsibility to accept things into the kernel.
It's also their responsability to reject worse coded patches. Linus is known to refuse patches - no matter how sexy the feature is - until they have the quality he wants to see.
Such cause would be a violation of the "License Must Not Restrict Other Software" rule in the Open Source definition. Distributors of software have the right to make their own choices about their own software. Opening a legal door only to allow de-encryption is a powerful tool, which shouldn't be underestimated even if it's just a theoretical option.
Did you know all ebuild scripts are written in Bash? You mention Gentoo as Python enabled but it actually has to read through tons of shell scripts to index the portage tree (after emerge sync). Tools like "qpkg -l" are slow compared to a "rpm -ql" command.
Will all major Windows applications be rewritten to
I just can't imagine Adobe, Autodesk, Corel, etc. translating their code to
Don't expect a easy transition. Mono can only implement the core stuff, because things like WinFX and WinForms are covered with patents. They've implemented their own gui toolkit instaead (Gtk#). IIRC they made the migration path from WinForms to Gtk# relatively easy.
Other options to write nice cross-platform tools are:
Although the average slashdot uses rants about KDE/QT, they shouldn't be underestimated. Trolltech has some enthousiastic customers and the Windows-port for the kde4-libs raised some eyebrows of commercial parties too.
I'm actually referring here to Quirks and Strict/Standards mode. The rendering of your page depends on the doctype you choose. The XHTML Transitional doctype also triggers strict/standards rendering mode in your browser.
Sounds like you never heared of the CSS code to make things work..
You can write the following CSS:
This is indeed a hack, but it's relatively safe. The "* html" selector only works in MSIE, it's valid CSS. MSIE believes there is another element above the html tag. The w\idth is valid CSS too, hexacedimal/special characters can be escaped. This is something MSIE 6 supports, so it reads the correct width too. As of MSIE7, it supports the correct model and they've fixed the "* html" selector bug, so your code continues to work in the future too.
And voila, the site works in all browsers.. Remember to put the following at the top of the page, so it triggers the same rending mode [strict mode] in all browsers:
Get people who are not experts, see how many problems they run into doing simple tasks that they're familiar with on Windows. See how many of these they can solve themselves. Sounds like they did with http://betterdesktop.org/ It's really interesting to see new users struggle with basic tasks in your favorite apps. Simple things, like "add your friend to the addressbook". Some tasks are really hard even if users claim it's the best program in the world.
I never really understood why people always have to mention Gentoo already has it. SuSE also updated their supplementary mirrors for example. The huge difference is, you don't have to compile for hours to get the updates. For SuSE download time == update time. In Gentoo it takes another day before you can enjoy KDE 3.5... :-)
KOffice has a separate release, so it's not included with KDE 3.5. The upcoming version of KOffice looks promising, with better ODF support, better GUI tools, etc.. But I don't use KOffice yet either, maybe the new version will be good enough to make a switch.